Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2012

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (opinion piece - posting in full).
Fires and shrinking exit doors
By Saroop Ijaz - Published: September 15, 2012

Like Bangla­desh, the milita­ry believ­es it can contro­l situat­ion in Baloch­istan by varyin­g the intens­ities of violen­ce.

The writer is a lawyer and partner at Ijaz and Ijaz Co in Lahore saroop.ijaz@ tribune.com.pk


We should begin by offering our thoughts and condolences to the loved ones of those who passed away in the horrific fires in Lahore and Karachi. I do not possess any expertise on the subject of fire safety to make an elaborate comment. However, someone has failed to do their job and we should insist on not only that investigation reports be made public and heads roll, but also a larger debate of worker safety and industrial regulation be conducted. It is said that when a fire breaks out, there is sometimes not enough panic at the beginning and people suffocate when they could have saved themselves because they are too calm. In the alternative, as is likely to be the case in the recent fires, the exit door/s is inadequate.

As the fires in Karachi and Lahore burnt, there was some expression of outrage on the arrival of the UN Mission on Enforced Disappearances in Balochistan. The lack of panic and the shrinking size of the exit door are useful, perhaps, unavoidable metaphors here. There is some panic now, but not on the murder and strangulation of human rights in Balochistan. No marks for guessing, it is for our favourite blanket objection to everything; the perceived breach of our “sovereignty”. It seems everyone important is refusing to talk to the UN Mission since we do not like them meddling in our domestic disputes. This talk of sovereignty and isolation sounds unpersuasive coming, immediately after the 9/11 anniversaries (both the tragedy in New York and martyrdom of Salvador Allende), the murder of an ambassador for a mediocre, insensitive movie made thousands of miles away, and a controversy about the veracity of a telephone interview allegedly conducted by a US channel with a prisoner in heavy security in Pakistan. To put it simply, isolation is not a choice or even possible.

When the Pakistan State and the Military establishment repeatedly and unconvincingly claim that all the mayhem and bloodshed in Balochistan is due to the involvement of a “foreign hand”, are they not admitting that “sovereignty” is already breached and being continually breached. Hence, according to them while the intelligence agency operatives of other countries can create trouble here, we find an official Mission of the UN coming with a publicly avowed mandate to be more of an affront. This does make the argument for sovereignty rather problematic, does it not? Furthermore, if this superficial and dishonest reasoning on sovereignty is accepted, it would disqualify us from demanding a probe into the murders in Gujarat, other places of India or Burma, since they are all domestic matters in view of this parochial definition

Of course, this analysis starts at the wrong foot since we give our State and Military establishment the benefit of doubt and good faith. They are no longer entitled to this presumption of innocence. The repression in Balochistan is deliberate and has to do with the Baloch having no representation in our civil or military establishment. The nationalism of the Baloch is equated with terrorism or treason. If one were to abandon euphemism, the Army and the FC consider the Baloch as the enemy and view them with suspicion of a hardened criminal or worse, a traitor. Yet, they consider themselves to be fit to resolve this dispute. They cannot; they are a party to this fight. Regarding Parliament, members, who found nothing remarkable about the bullet-riddled and mutilated bodies discovered on a daily basis, broke their peace only to condemn the UN Mission.

The panic should be on the reign of murder and terror in Balochistan and not on the fact that the world has noticed. We have forced the world to notice. One should not inflate expectations too much from the UN Mission’s visit partially because the Pakistan establishment would make sure — and it already is — that the Mission fails. However, if the trajectory does not change and change fast, this might not be the last mission from the international community sent to Balochistan, and the next one may not be as benign.

The UN Mission, if for nothing else, should serve to retire and discredit the term “missing persons”. The innocuous term seems to suggest that had someone been more careful, they would not have gone missing. “Abduction with intent to torture and murder” or “kidnapping” would have been preferable, although one would settle at the bureaucratically phrased, “enforced disappearances”. The missing persons are missing because the intelligence agencies and the armed forces have forcibly made them to disappear.

The patriotic Pakistani nationalists (i.e., Punjabis) unmoved on the martyrdom of Nawab Akbar Bugti still maintain their objectivity on the issue. Returning to fires, one may quote Dante Alighieri from “Inferno”, “the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crises, maintain their neutrality”. Fires have to be put out not only for those unfortunate enough to be engulfed by them, but also because fires tend to burn the entire neighbourhood if not dealt with adequately and swiftly.

The present strategy in Balochistan seems to be increasing the use of force as the discontent rises, not pausing to reflect on the causal link. One logical outcome of this mindless strategy is that once the number of missing persons in Balochistan has crossed a certain threshold, one might have to contemplate the grim possibility of a “Missing Balochistan”. It is a cliché to mention Bangladesh, yet, it remains necessary. The Pakistan Army was so busy fighting and igniting the fire that it did not look back to see the exit door narrowing everyday and were only to turn back exhausted and defeated to confront a stone wall. Like Bangladesh, the military establishment believes that it can control the situation in Balochistan by varying the intensities of violence since they are the ones who have created this trouble. Sometime back someone beautifully quoted on Balochistan and the Pakistan State a verse of Sufi Tabassum, “Aisa na ho, yeh dard banay dard-e-ladawa, Aisa na ho kay tum bhi madawa na kar sako.” (‘Lest, this sore becomes incurable, that even you cannot heal it.’)

Published in The Express Tribune, September 16th, 2012.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (news article). TSP PM chair is soon up for grabs. Any one want to place odds on who will be the next TSP PM?
Swiss letter: Coalition partners to accompany PM Ashraf to SC tomorrow
By Web Desk / APP - Published: September 18, 2012

PM Raja Pervez Ashraf to appear before SC tomorr­ow.

ISLAMABAD: Ruling Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) and their coalition partners threw their weight behind Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf ahead of his appearance before the Supreme Court on Tuesday September 18.

Express News correspondent Waqar Satti reported that the meeting at the Aiwan-e-Sadr discussed the National Reconciliation Ordinance and the matter of writing the letter to Swiss courts, for which the Prime Minister will appear in the Supreme Court on September 18.

Satti said that according to sources, the coalition partners and the ruling party have agreed to present their stance in a forceful manner before the apex court during the hearing.

Quoting a press release, Satti said that in a show of solidarity, all coalition partners will accompany the Prime Minister
...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by BijuShet »

From Tribune (news article - posting in full).
Pakistan test fires nuclear-capable Hatf-VII Babur
By Web Desk - Published: September 17, 2012

Babur cruise missil­e is low-flying, terrai­n-huggin­g missil­e, which can strike target­s at land and sea.

RAWALPINDI: Pakistan conducted a successful test fire of the indigenously developed multi-tube cruise missile Hatf-VII (Babur), having a range of 700 kilometers, Inter-Services Public Relations said in a statement on Monday.

Babur cruise missile is a low-flying, terrain-hugging missile, which can strike targets both at land and sea with pin-point accuracy, the statement added.

According to ISPR, the missile carries stealth features – equipped with modern cruise missile technology of Terrain Contour Matching (TERCOM) and Digital Scene Matching and Area Co-relation (DSMAC). It can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads.

The missile was launched from a state-of-the-art Multi Tube Missile Launch Vehicle (MLV), which enhances the targeting and deployment options of Babur Weapon system.

The test was witnessed by Director-General Strategic Plans Division Lieutunent General (retd) Khalid Ahmed Kidwai, Chairman National Engineering and Scientific Commission (Nescom) Muhammad Irfan Burney, senior officers from the armed forces and strategic organisations.

In today’s test, National Command Authority’s fully automated Strategic Command and Control Support System (SCCSS) was once again employed. It enables robust command and control capability of all strategic assets with round the clock situational awareness in a digitised network centric environment to decision makers at National Command Centre (NCC).

The system has the added capability of real-time remote monitoring of missile flight path. The test consolidates and strengthens Pakistan’s deterrence capability and national security.

The successful test has also been appreciated by the President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf and chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, who congratulated the scientists and engineers on their success.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by nachiket »

anupmisra wrote:
our girls and boys were more good-looking than Indian actors but bad lighting and makeup made them look ordinary on screen
There! The camera does add a few pounds but does that settle this "looks" issue once and for all or not? By the way, this comment was made by Zeba Bhaktiar, ex-wife of Adnan Sami who now lives in india. Ms. Bhaktiar also acted in several bollywood movies and thus owes her current fame to that.
So with all the "good-looking boys" in Pakistan, Ms. Bakhtiar decided to marry the lump of lard Adnan Sami? :shock:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by ramana »

johneeG wrote:.... I don't understand these people, they criticize a thing and turn around do the same thing...like Idol worship(hint: Kabba). I came across a site that claims Mecca was a Lord Shiva's temple, that may explain the worship of Moon.

Is it possible to have a u tube on this!

May be there is one already.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by RCase »

Err... pliss to educate this abdul - when did Pakistan have a Miss Universe/World or winners of any other recognized paegants? There are quite a few Bollywood actresses that can lay claim to those titles.

Whenever, I think of Pakistani heroines, Haseena Atim Bum is the one that comes to mind. :roll:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anindya »

Pamela's really beginning to understand Pakistan... (have not posted the links - most of the articles have been posted herein).

Good Morning Pakistan
A typical morning for infidels, journalists, et al, in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, sharia state ...... (links thanks to David)

Christians machine-gunned in Karachi: Nasir MasihRafi MasihThese are two most recent fatalities of the slow mass... here

Gunmen open fire on bus of nuns and Cathedral - one dead: The Catholic and Protestant dioceses in Hyderabad org... here

Faisalabad shooting victim dies: Two weeks ago, a Muslim gang shot a Christian man called Yaqoob Masih. He has ... here

U.N. panel spotlights disappearances in Pakistani province here "abductions,torture, murder". Baluch"separatists"/Islamists.

Ahmadi shopkeeper gunned down here 3 killed in 10 days."The family was frequently called “Kafir"'

Pakistan journalists' choice: Face death, or jail here one of the most dangerous jobs in the world
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

pure benis material
Pakistani Protester Burns American Flag and Dies From Smoke
A Pakistani man, one of approximately 10,000 people participating in an anti-American rally has died. The cause of death? Complications from inhaling smoke after burning an American flag. The Express Tribune, a Pakistani newspaper affiliated with The International Herald Tribune (“The Global Edition of The New York Times”) reported:


One of the participants of the rally, Abdullah Ismail, passed away after he was taken to Mayo Hospital. Witnesses said he had complained of feeling unwell from the smoke from US flags burnt at the rally.

The rally is part of protests, organized by Jamaat-Ud-Dawa, the political arm of the terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba. Protesters are allegedly insulted by America’s unwillingness to punish the makers of the film “Innocence of Muslims.” The protesters, demanding respect for and tolerance of Islam, threatened to destroy the U.S. consulate in Pakistan if the United States does not publicly hang the movie’s producer, director, and “all those involved in the production and release of the movie” (which would presumably include Google and YouTube employees). The protesters also will not be satisfied until the United States makes a “law against blasphemy.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by SSridhar »

joygoswami wrote:OT : Not sure if this has been posted before. Here is another example of our beloved but illegal mango Abdul displaying his Pakistaniyat in full glory, in Japan.
With deteriorating relationship etween the deeper-than-the-deepest-ocean friend and the Japanese, which side would be this Abdul and his Ayesha ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anindya »

Gunmen open fire on bus of nuns and Cathedral - one dead
The Catholic and Protestant dioceses in Hyderabad organized a joint protest against the 'Innocence of Muslims' film on 16th September. While they were driving back from this protest in support of their Muslim countrymen, unknown gunman opened fire on a van in which nuns and other women were travelling, injuring the driver, Imran Masih. In addition, unknown gunmen opened fire on the St Xavier church in Hyderabad, according to a source, killing a man known only as Mangi.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anindya »

Brad - do you have a working link for that post?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Dipanker »

Indian envoys see govt divided on Pakistan ties
NEW DELHI, Sept 16: A wide gap between the perceptions of India’s home ministry and its foreign ministry about ties with Pakistan has left the country’s diplomats confounded during a meeting to improve the country’s image abroad, which was addressed among others by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, news reports have said.

According to the Times of India, National Security Adviser (NSA) Shivshankar Menon briefed Indian diplomats on his take about the deep divide. Mr Menon was quoted by the newspaper as saying that while terrorism from Pakistan was a never-ending affair, India needed to engage with different quarters in Pakistan, even as New Delhi enhanced its own security proactively.

“The NSA’s assessment of Pakistan matched the home ministry’s briefing to Indian diplomats. But these were at variance with the ministry of external affairs take on India’s ties with Pakistan,” The Times said.

Earlier in the three-day meeting, Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna gave a fairly positive spin to the Pakistan relationship, describing it as a “democracy”.

Giving an account of his recent visit to Islamabad for talks with his counterpart Hina Rabbani Khar, the minister’s briefing to the diplomats spoke of a new atmosphere in Pakistan and his confidence that the relationship was on the upswing. Pakistan, he said, wanted to take steps forward.

On the question if the powerful ISI and Pakistani Army were on the same page as the civilian government there, according to the Times version of the three-day meeting, Mr Krishna said he believed if the civilians were moving forward with India it would have the “blessings” of the military.

But these were very different from Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde’s assessment. In his speech to the diplomats, Mr Shinde spoke of the different ways in which Pakistan continued to foment terrorism inside India, the Times said.

These included infiltration, a growing fake Indian currency network, sleeper cells of terror groups, luring Indians to terror training camps to carry out terror attacks.


“Diplomats listening to the top levels of policymaking in the government would be forgiven for believing that the establishment was speaking in different voices,” the report said. “But though there is almost no one willing to bet that Pakistan had given up terrorism against India, there is an understanding that India needed to engage with some of the main players in Pakistan.”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by RCase »

SSridhar wrote:
joygoswami wrote:OT : Not sure if this has been posted before. Here is another example of our beloved but illegal mango Abdul displaying his Pakistaniyat in full glory, in Japan.
With deteriorating relationship etween the deeper-than-the-deepest-ocean friend and the Japanese, which side would be this Abdul and his Ayesha ?
SSji - On the side of Islam off course! He is there to spread his Pakistaniyat in all its glory as the Ghazi of Islam taking on the Kaffir Japanese. Didn't he deliver the 'Islamic Punch'. The deeper-than-the-deepest ocean fliend is only for the Khakis and RAPEs.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by nachiket »

“But though there is almost no one willing to bet that Pakistan had given up terrorism against India, there is an understanding that India needed to engage with some of the main players in Pakistan.”
And yet, no one is willing to ask how this latest round of "engaging with main players in pakistan" is any different from numerous previous ones which were all inevitably followed by an invasion or spectacular terrorist attacks on Indian soil.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by RCase »

anupmisra wrote:Youtube blocked
after receiving orders from Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf
The block will remain in place until the anti-Islam film is removed
Next step, block the sun. It lets light (and knowledge) in.
Mashallah! At least they did not block the sites that Pakistanis truly care about. Only movies that purportedly blaspheme the prophet and Allah are not OK! :twisted:

On the brighter side, there will be less of propagandu uploaded by ISI inspired/ Madrassa educated Abduls or their stupid comments. :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Sushupti »

Pakistani Protester Burns American Flag and Dies From Smoke

One of the participants of the rally, Abdullah Ismail, passed away after he was taken to Mayo Hospital. Witnesses said he had complained of feeling unwell from the smoke from US flags burnt at the rally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcne ... rom-smoke/
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Sushupti wrote:
Pakistani Protester Burns American Flag and Dies From Smoke

One of the participants of the rally, Abdullah Ismail, passed away after he was taken to Mayo Hospital. Witnesses said he had complained of feeling unwell from the smoke from US flags burnt at the rally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcne ... rom-smoke/

:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by anupmisra »

Tries to burn an American Flag to prove his pedigree and is taken to Mayo Hospital (a hospital started by the English) for treatment from smoke inhalation. Dies soon after. Maybe his god was trying to tell him something. Ironic, isnt it? Reminds me of that peculair incident around partition time when pure momeens tried to tear down Sir Ganga Ram's statue in Lawhore, one of them gets injured and is taken to Sir Ganga Ram Hospital for treatment.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by MurthyB »

^^^ The clincher is that
The fellow rioters immediately pick him up while one of them screams “Hurry; let’s take him to Sir Ganga Ram hospital”.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by MurthyB »

Sushupti wrote:
Pakistani Protester Burns American Flag and Dies From Smoke

One of the participants of the rally, Abdullah Ismail, passed away after he was taken to Mayo Hospital. Witnesses said he had complained of feeling unwell from the smoke from US flags burnt at the rally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcne ... rom-smoke/
In all fairness:

Image

That is one flammable mutha...Some cheap tarrel fliend impolt no doubt.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

^^^^
Maulana Maududi used to travel frequently to London for treatment and died in a Boston hospital all the while raising ruckus about the decadence of the west.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by partha »

^
Maulana Syed Ali Shah Geelani travels to New Delhi frequently either to escape the winters of Kashmir or to get some medical treatment in a Delhi hospital all the while abusing India.

Same mindset.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by MurthyB »

More Benis material:

Pakistani protesters torch press club for lack of coverage as anti-Islam film protests turn violent in three countries
:rotfl:
The protesters apparently attacked the press club in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province’s Upper Dir district because they were angry their rally wasn’t getting more coverage, he said.
“We will destroy America like this flag!” a protester screamed while burning a U.S. flag. “We will chase away the American ambassador from the country!”
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by saip »

RCase wrote:Err... pliss to educate this abdul - when did Pakistan have a Miss Universe/World or winners of any other recognized paegants? There are quite a few Bollywood actresses that can lay claim to those titles.

Whenever, I think of Pakistani heroines, Haseena Atim Bum is the one that comes to mind. :roll:
Jew Kaffir! Pakistanis have not won any Miss Universe/World only because they do not compete in these kaffir contests. According to Islam they are haram. If they decide to participate they will win all the titles for ever. Think about it and be happy
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anantha »

Pakistani Protester Burns American Flag and Dies From Smoke

One of the participants of the rally, Abdullah Ismail, passed away after he was taken to Mayo Hospital. Witnesses said he had complained of feeling unwell from the smoke from US flags burnt at the rally.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcne ... rom-smoke/


A very strong candidate for this year's Darwin award !!! :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anindya »

Anujan wrote:^^^^
Maulana Maududi used to travel frequently to London for treatment and died in a Boston hospital all the while raising ruckus about the decadence of the west.
Anujan - I was watching CNN the other day, when they showed a clip of protests in Pakistan. One of the chief protesters declared that they wanted to boycott US products. How long do you think the country would survive without US products?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Lilo »

^^ What is it that US makes that Pakis can't pirate....hain ??
Last edited by Lilo on 18 Sep 2012 07:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Anindya wrote:Anujan - I was watching CNN the other day, when they showed a clip of protests in Pakistan. One of the chief protesters declared that they wanted to boycott US products. How long do you think the country would survive without US products?
Ahhh! Stop being a buzzkill and enjoy the party! :D

Reality is merely an inconvenience to these purest of the pure mujahids. Pakistaniyat demands firing an RPG through the same plate on which you eat your food.

So grab a beer and enjoy the pile of protest-related stories piling up over here. :rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by vivek_ahuja »

:rotfl:

This is fabulous!

Only Jinn-logic can explain how torching the Press will lead to more Press for torching the press for... ahhh!

Just like the "Free-Of-Energy" model that powers the Pakistani National Water-Kit fuel system.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Shreeman »

vivek_ahuja wrote:
:rotfl:

This is fabulous!

Only Jinn-logic can explain how torching the Press will lead to more Press for torching the press for... ahhh!

Just like the "Free-Of-Energy" model that powers the Pakistani National Water-Kit fuel system.
Even the chinese have caught up with lebanon.

Is it really a press club coverage problem or are there no KFCs left?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by johneeG »

X-posting:
------
ramana wrote:
johneeG wrote:.... I don't understand these people, they criticize a thing and turn around do the same thing...like Idol worship(hint: Kabba). I came across a site that claims Mecca was a Lord Shiva's temple, that may explain the worship of Moon.

Is it possible to have a u tube on this!

May be there is one already.
Ramana garu,
KAABA A HINDU TEMPLE TAKEN OVER BY MUSLIMS

KING VIKRAMADITYA INSCRIPTION ON A GOLD DISH HUNG INSIDE THE KAABA
In pure scientific study about the Historical Muhammad raises basic questions concerning the prophet's role as a moral paragon; the sources of Islamic law; and the God-given nature of the Koran. The scientists even doubt the existence of Muhammad. Scientists say that the Koran is a not a product of Muhammad or even of Arabia, but a collection of materials stitched together to meet the needs of a later age. There was no Islam until two or three hundred years after the traditional version at around 830CE. The Arab tribesmen who conquered in the seventh century vast territory were not Moslems, but were persons who worshiped idols and are scientists call them pagans.

Even though Prophet Muhammad was born in the full light of history the earliest document date about a century and a half after his death. Not only does this long lapse of time cast doubt on their accuracy, but internal evidence strongly suggests the Arabic sources were composed in the context of intense partisan quarrels over the prophet's life. The earliest sources like papyri, inscriptions, and coins on the prophet's life, contradict the standard biography. An inscription and a Greek account fix Muhammad's birth in 552, not 570. Muhammad's career took place not in Mecca but hundreds of kilometers to the north. Yehuda Nevo. The classical Arabic language was developed not in today's Saudi Arabia but in the Levant.

Long before Islam came in to existence, Kaaba, in Mecca in Saudi Arabia was a pilgrimage site. The word Kaaba might have come from the Tamil Language which originated around 1700BC. In Tamil Nadu Kabaalishwaran temple is Lord Shiva’s temple and Kabaali refers to Lord Shiva.(May be Arabic language is related to Brahmi script -johneeG The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta. So what is in Kaaba could be the same what Hindus worship. The pedestal Maqam-E-Ibrahim at the centre of the Kaaba is octagonal in shape. In Hinduism, the pedestal of Brahma the creator is also octagonal in shape. Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic. In Shiva temples Hindus always practice circumambulation or Pradakshina. Just as in Hinduism, the custom of circumambulation by muslim pilgrims around the entire Kaaba building seven times shows that the claim that in Islam they don’t worship stones is not true.

Allah was one of the deities in Kaaba long before Islam was founded. It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word ‘ALLAH’ itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term ‘ALLAH’ forms part of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani, Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore, not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.

The King Vikramaditya inscription was found on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire. (Ref: page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey). King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic Hindu sacred scriptures in Arabia and Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life. The annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca and the present annual hajj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation. . Even to this day ancient Siva emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.

Muslims shave their head and beard and don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean and with holy seamless white sheets. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 idols. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon. In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.

The Hindu Vedic letter in Sanskrit "OM" if seen in a mirror one can see the Arabic numbers 786 and this is the most sacred number for Muslims and copies of the Arabic Koran have the mysterious figure 786 imprinted on them. In their ignorance simply they do not realize that this special number is nothing more than the holiest of Vedic symbols misread and none of the Arabic scholar has been able to determine how they chose 786 as the sacred for them. In short muslims are also going around Siva Lingam at Kaaba, seven times as Hindus go around it seven times.

A few miles away from Mecca are a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture. Kaaba is clothed in a black shroud. This custom also originated from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.

Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist. True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).
http://krishnajkaaba.blogspot.in/2005/0 ... er-by.html


There are videos on utube which make the same point more vividly(and convincingly), because it is a visual medium.

This video explain about 786:


This is an old video of Haj(it is islamic propaganda/devotional video). But, it corroborates the following:
]Muslims shave their head and beard and don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean and with holy seamless white sheets.
Mute the video, cover the title of the video, and show the video to someone from 1:13 to 2:27, they will think that its a hindu pilgrimage:


Anyone who has even cursory knowledge of Hindu customs and attires during pilgrimage can easily see that the above video matches it perfectly.

But, just to make a comparative point, I am posting videos of same rituals done by Hindus during pilgrimage:

This is a video of tonsure/head-shaving at the bank of Ganga(0:51 onwards):


This video illustrates attires:


---
Ramana garu,
there is one more thing:
I was reading about a conversation between Rama Tirtha and a group of Islamic scholars, when they came to meet him. He was also making thew same point that Islam is nothing but a misunderstood and corrupt form of Hinduism/Vedic religion. Obviously, the muslims were not ready to accept this theory, so he tried to make his point by showing how AUM(sacred vedic sound) is part of Koran, yes Koran.
Rama replied gently: ‘Please listen to what is now being said. In the very beginning of your Koran, at the top, are three letters, alif (A), lam (L) and mim (M). Can any of you or any learned Mulawi of Islam explain what these three letters mean?' The Moslems replied that this was a secret which Allah had kept to himself. Swami Rama laughed heartily at this remark and said: ‘When God has revealed the entire Koran for the benefit of mankind, as the Muslims claim, it is very strange that he has kept its very heading a secret. No. It is not so. If you, the Muslims who put full faith in the Koran do not know the secret of the letters A, L, M, Rama will tell you what they signify. Alif, lam and mim are nothing but alif (A), wao (O) and mim (M), that is, AOM or OM.'

The Muslims objected that the letter L is not the same as the letter O, but Swami Rama pointed out to them that in Arabic grammar L is pronounced O when it falls between a vowel and a consonant, as in the names Shamsuddin, which is written Shamsaldin, or Nizamuddin, which is written Nizamaldin. The letter lam (L) becomes silent and gives the sound of the Arabic letter pesh (O or U). Therefore ALM is no secret; it is clearly and unambiguously OM and nothing but OM. It is Kufra, heretical or a sin, to blame God for keeping it a secret.
-----
Ramana garu,
I was searching youtube for the above videos, when I came across an interesting video. The below video uses the same info that I posted last night. Moreover, the time when the video is posted is just after I posted it in TSP thread. More interestingly, it is a rabid EJ account. So, some EJ lurker took the info and made a video.

[youtube]74FpCxzhJaQ&feature=plcp[/youtube]

As you see, EJs won't mind using the above info.
Anujan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Anujan »

Waiting for Pakistani protestors to break down all the barricades and walls of the US embassy, burn the flag, storm in and demand immediate issue of US visa for self and family. :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Or else they will issue Kanadian visa to the US ambassador! :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by vivek_ahuja »

Anujan wrote:Waiting for Pakistani protestors to break down all the barricades and walls of the US embassy, burn the flag, storm in and demand immediate issue of US visa for self and family. :mrgreen:
Raja Bose wrote:^^^Or else they will issue Kanadian visa to the US ambassador! :mrgreen:
:rotfl:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by abhijitm »

Yesterday I was listening to indo-pak T20 post match analysis on AIR. Indian commentators and so called analysts were singing pakistan love in full swing. Instead of cricket they were talking about how india pakistan have left the enmity behind them and how two countries have moved on, how sport and politics should not be mixed, how people from both sides praising each other, how this is a new beginning of the friendship!

Our hypocrites in GoI are advising us not to mix politics in sports whilst they are using cricket to promote their ill politics.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Aditya_V »

Boss, Once Gropher and MMS, SG made such a show of WC semi Final, I think Politics and sport are mixed, so they have killed the WKK aurgument.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by johneeG »

Aditya_V wrote:Boss, Once Gropher and MMS, SG made such a show of WC semi Final, I think Politics and sport are mixed, so they have killed the WKK aurgument.
Saar,
you are making a mistake by taking an argument too seriously. It is the conclusion that is important, arguments and logics are temporary. They are selectively applied only when they are convenient.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by sudhan »

Makes me think of Pakiland as Mordor after reading the article about the abdul who got his 72 through pious flag burning :D

"One simply does not simply walk into Mordor...There is evil there that does not sleep.. The very air you breathe is a poisonous fume"

With pakis being the mindless orcs, of course :mrgreen:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Anindya wrote:Brad - do you have a working link for that post?
http://times247.com/articles/militant-d ... ican-flags
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2

Post by anupmisra »

saip wrote:Pakistanis have not won any Miss Universe/World only because they do not compete in these kaffir contests. According to Islam they are haram. If they decide to participate they will win all the titles for ever. Think about it and be happy
Especially the Miss Congeniality and Miss Personality contests. Those are sure fire winners.
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