China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 19 Sep 2012 23:28

LCA will also act as a test bed for many of the new technologies tested. While FGFA will provide us with some experience with testing 5th gen jets, it will be based on an existing design. This ability to build new planes with existing designs is a China speciality. WHat they sorely lack is a new design. If one sees the AMCA designs, it looks different from other fighters out there. Going forward, innovation and technology is going to be the key to deal with China. We would need a lot more indigenous innovation to bridge the gap between us and the west.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Sep 2012 03:11

wong wrote:
What does "could be tested" vs. a definitive statement like "will be tested" have to do with anything. Please explain. I'm all ears.

To every non-Indian the writing is clearly on the wall, the Kaveri is over. Everything I hear about the WS-15 is that it's on track.

yes "on track". considering how the Chinese media filters out the truth and only the most pleasant news gets out, I can imagine how much trouble they're having with the WS-15..

BTW, where's the WS-13 that was supposed to be powering the JF-17? News must not be good considering the hundreds of RD-93s that China has to import to make the JF-17 fly.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Sep 2012 03:13

wong wrote:
Dude, they test engines on a flying test bed. The other engines are operational. What are you in third grade??

http://www.air-and-space.com/Boeing%207 ... estbed.htm

I trust the people working at Chinese aerospace firms that said the J-31 would show up in September. It showed up in September.

it showed up with Russian engines, just as the J-20 did.

Where are the Chinese engines? Why aren't they powering any of these prototypes? Not reliable enough or still facing developmental troubles that force China to go to the Russians for engines?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Sep 2012 03:14

Singha wrote:we eagerly await the WS10c equipped serial production of the J-10B.

as well as the WS-13 equipped JF-17.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Sep 2012 09:39

due to lack of time, the programs to fix the WS13 and WS10 cannot be a gate for the 5th gen engine. so all 3 must be ongoing in parallel. this is fine until the 5th gen hits some of the same bottlenecks the earlier ones did. the hope must be the solns would be in place for the 5th gen to use in that timeframe.

managers love playing around with MPPs like this, trying to parallelize and "derisk" projects. ofcourse the bigger the project, with more people and groups involved they _always_ ignore the chances of new problems , communication and co-ordination overheads, need for buffers and over staffing etc. this usually bites toward end of project. forgive me for throwing in a ITvity rant into a engine discussion!

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 20 Sep 2012 09:53

Singha wrote:due to lack of time, the programs to fix the WS13 and WS10 cannot be a gate for the 5th gen engine. so all 3 must be ongoing in parallel. this is fine until the 5th gen hits some of the same bottlenecks the earlier ones did. the hope must be the solns would be in place for the 5th gen to use in that timeframe.

managers love playing around with MPPs like this, trying to parallelize and "derisk" projects. ofcourse the bigger the project, with more people and groups involved they _always_ ignore the chances of new problems , communication and co-ordination overheads, need for buffers and over staffing etc. this usually bites toward end of project. forgive me for throwing in a ITvity rant into a engine discussion!

R&D is R&D whether engine development or ITvity.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Sep 2012 19:03

China is soopal doopal onlee.. then why this kolavari-hun?

China premier Wen Jiabao urges end to EU arms embargo

China's premier Wen Jiabao has urged the EU to lift its arms embargo on Beijing, at his last EU-China summit before handing over power this year.

Speaking in Brussels, Mr Wen said "the solution has been elusive over the past 10 years. I deeply regret this".

The EU embargo was imposed after the violent suppression of the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989.

wong · Post by **wong** » 20 Sep 2012 23:08

Red carpet and dress rehearsal pics...

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 20 Sep 2012 23:11

Which plane/s are they going to fly off it?

wong · Post by **wong** » 20 Sep 2012 23:16

^^^^
LCA Mark XX.
How's Gorshkov?? Lol.

Chairs for VIPs...

member_23367 · Post by **member_23367** » 20 Sep 2012 23:19

wong wrote:^^^^

Chairs for VIPs...

Looks like they are Gold Plated,Dude

Do they get to take it home?

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 20 Sep 2012 23:20

Don't worry. Russia does quality control. But I hear they refused to sell their carrier planes to China because China copies it??? Are you guys planning to copy the LCA as well? lol

wong · Post by **wong** » 20 Sep 2012 23:26

^^^^

Yeah, Russians are known for their quality control?? What are you smokin??

Russians do shakedowns is more like it.

member_23367 · Post by **member_23367** » 20 Sep 2012 23:29

wong wrote:^^^^

Russians do shakedowns is more like it.

And you guys do handshake in the end.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 20 Sep 2012 23:29

Evidently your masters disagree with you. Was it another CCP dlone using your account to post the pic of a Su 30 clone??? You might want to consult him or ur 50 cent may be snatched from you. Happy cloning.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 21 Sep 2012 00:01

Lol coming from the navy that sank a whole SSBN and grounded a frigate in the islands recently.

. China will need all the assistance from russia and ukraine to keep that ship within 100 miles from its shoreline.

wong · Post by **wong** » 21 Sep 2012 00:57

^^^^^

Indians keep their home made ships 0.00001 miles from the shoreline.

The Kolkata Class for the last 9 years...

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 21 Sep 2012 01:04

Congrats! You have earned your 50 cents, BTW does a comment with a pic earn you more? I see you are in a hurry to get as much as you can.

When is China going to create its own carrier or do we have to keep seeing Varyag clones???

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 21 Sep 2012 01:18

Varyag trial stirs up Cold War feeling for foreign watchers

Nevertheless, China has neither the desire nor the strength to engage in a carrier competition with the US or its Asian neighbors like India. China won't initiate a war, bully neighbors with which it has territorial disputes, and claim maritime hegemony. This is a cliched speculation held by those obsessed with the Cold War mentality, no matter how China explains its intentions.

It means that China is going to slow with carrier building. It has realized that cloning only takes you so far. Real experience that India & USA possess about carriers can not be achieved by imitation.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 21 Sep 2012 02:18

Unlike the useless type-052 alphabet soup with little AAW capability beyond paper claim these will actually have a potent AD weapon in Barak-8. LoL the chinese navy can't even put together an air group for the so called carrier and dream of having a CVBG. To take on the type-051/52 garbage this is sufficient

[img] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shiva ... Sortie.jpg
[/img]
The dlones seem really scared ever since A-4's real range was revealed.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Sep 2012 02:45

Is there a full-steam ahead, boiler-busting picchar of the ex-Varyag sea-trials like this one of a professional Navy doing extreme user-trials? Till date it seem to be happy in the company of tugs and photoshop.

RamaY wrote: China premier Wen Jiabao urges end to EU arms embargo

China's premier Wen Jiabao has urged the EU to lift its arms embargo on Beijing, at his last EU-China summit before handing over power this year.

here is another link

Yet there are serious irritants for Beijing, including the E.U. ban on arms exports to China, in place since the 1989 crackdown on protesters around Tiananmen Square, and the reluctance of Europe to classify China as a modern, open economy , which would clear the way for advantages on tariffs.

Wen-mama seem to be running around like a lottery-ticket seller at a municipal bus stand.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 21 Sep 2012 03:09

Singha wrote:due to lack of time, the programs to fix the WS13 and WS10 cannot be a gate for the 5th gen engine. so all 3 must be ongoing in parallel. this is fine until the 5th gen hits some of the same bottlenecks the earlier ones did. the hope must be the solns would be in place for the 5th gen to use in that timeframe.

managers love playing around with MPPs like this, trying to parallelize and "derisk" projects. ofcourse the bigger the project, with more people and groups involved they _always_ ignore the chances of new problems , communication and co-ordination overheads, need for buffers and over staffing etc. this usually bites toward end of project. forgive me for throwing in a ITvity rant into a engine discussion!

That's true, but realistically, you can't wait for every subsystem to be mature before designing the whole plane. The first J-20 probably flew with AL-31's, but it appears that they're comfortable enough using WS-10 variants now. After all, they now have 100+ J-11B/S that are flying with WS-10's, compared to very few ~2 years ago when the J-20 first flew.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 21 Sep 2012 03:18

hnair wrote:Is there a full-steam ahead, boiler-busting picchar of the ex-Varyag sea-trials like this one of a professional Navy doing extreme user-trials? Till date it seem to be happy in the company of tugs and photoshop.

Other than an extreme amount of smoke, I don't see what else is extreme about that pic. The ship isn't even moving! As for the ex-Varyag, nobody really knows how far the program has gone, all we know is that it's undergone 10 sea trials thus far. Rumor has it that they did a landing/takeoff trial(or was it just a touch and go?) on the last trial, but we won't know for sure until we see some footage or at least pictures, of course.

BTW, not trying to stir the pot or anything, but how far along is the indigenous Indian carrier? I know the Chinese one hasn't even started yet. Heck, even the shipyard hasn't even been selected yet, as last I heard was that all the competing shipyards have constructed a module and the PLAN is evaluating them.

John · Post by **John** » 21 Sep 2012 05:01

wong wrote:The Kolkata Class for the last 9 years...

IN has far less budget 1/5 th of PLAN to be exact hence the need for design changes to get the most bang for the buck rather than build batches of vessels incrementally with improving design which is philosophy PLAN is using, it is expensive as well maintenance nightmare (Soviet union being a great example). When P-15A is built it should superior to any other DDGs out there with exception of Aegis class destroyers.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 22 Sep 2012 18:37

'India must get serious about China's military modernization'

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Sep 2012 21:43

New Chinese Fifth-Generation Fighter Revealed

Imagery emerged on the Internet last weekend showing China’s latest stealth fighter in prototype form. With fifth-generation characteristics, it bears a distinct resemblance to the Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor and F-35A/C Lightning II stealth fighter designs, and appears to be similar in size to the latter. Photos of the twin-engine aircraft on the ground at an unidentified airfield–possibly Xian-Yanliang airbase–were leaked the day before U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta started a three-day visit to Beijing. Could this be mere coincidence? China’s earlier stealth design, the Chengdu J-20, made its first flight just before former Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited China in January 2011.

Rumors of a stealthy, JSF-sized aircraft being developed by Shenyang Aircraft have been in circulation for some time. Models of such aircraft were displayed at an exhibition in Beijing last year. A few weeks ago, photos emerged of a tarpaulin-shrouded airframe being trucked from Shenyang by low-loader on public roads, fueling speculation that the fighter would be revealed imminently.

With these photos and some computer-generated imagery (CGI) also posted online, it is possible to make some general assessment of the aircraft, although there has been no official recognition of its existence, or any firm details for that matter. The designation J-21 was initially mooted, while the model display suggested that it was the F-60, although this is most likely the designation for any future export version. The airfield photos show an aircraft serial-numbered 31001, and it is therefore now assumed that the designation is J-31.

The J-31 is smaller than the Chengdu J-20, and would appear to complement it rather than compete with it. Unhampered by the need to provide a common airframe that could incorporate STOVL capability, the J-31 differs from the Lockheed Martin F-35 by having much longer and larger weapon bays and by being powered by twin engines. The CGI shows four hardpoints under each wing, with the inner two carrying heavy missiles. It also shows an arrestor hook deployed, suggesting carrier capability.

It has been assumed that the aircraft would be powered by the Guizhou WS13, and possibly in the future by a new-generation powerplant currently dubbed “WS-XX.” However, examination of the nozzles of the new aircraft suggests that, initially at least, it is powered by the Klimov RD93. This engine is a version of the MiG-29’s RD33 developed specifically to power the Chengdu JF-17 and has been supplied to China in some numbers for that production program. The inlet design is diverterless, a feature of the F-35 but not the F-22.

pran · Post by **pran** » 22 Sep 2012 22:37

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/china-missiles/
It turns out that China’s been mixing its nuclear missiles in with its conventional ones at the same military bases. Not really, uh, advisable: that makes it really hard for other countries to figure out if a Chinese missile launch is just a conventional one or the beginnings of a nuclear Armageddon...

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 23 Sep 2012 01:38

wong wrote:
Indians keep their home made ships 0.00001 miles from the shoreline.

The Kolkata Class for the last 9 years...

LOL much better than China...Chinese build their "copied" ships -800 miles from the shoreline !!

Chinese "concrete" carrier in Wuhan

FYI - Kolkata class 2nd ship INS Kochi launched in 2009. Poor India doesn't have Sovremenny class destroyer to copy into the Type 052C destroyers like China!

Maybe PLA will "copy" the P15A design once its fitted out and "leak" it on internet forums?? LOL

yantra · Post by **yantra** » 23 Sep 2012 04:32

For what it is worth you have to admire the Chinese for putting up something - begged, borrowed, stolen or copied. They have the begun to have numbers in most categories - it is a deterrent till it is proven otherwise in a battle. Now how and when will it get tested in a real battle-field?

Vis-a-vis that, we do not have yet/miss key technology capabilities in quite a few areas - either due to poor project management or due to lack of manufacturing capability. Then there is lack to production capability to raise the numbers where we do...

Chinese have copied the PW engines and have a 'JV' with GE for civil applications, and it is only a matter of time before they come up with their 'own' engines. They have similarly screwed Siemens in high-speed locomotives.

In the end - what matters is capability - not how you got it. We may pride ourselves with all the knowledge and know-how, but do we have guns on ground that fire back at the Chinese when the rubber meets the road and in enough quantity?

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Sep 2012 08:46

It seems like china is better than India in taking advantage of the greed of western 'powers' ., it seems quite likely that the tiannmen embargo would likely to be lifted pretty soon ! More clones ahoy !

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Sep 2012 08:52

Russians may lack quality control, but Chinese would never lack copy controls.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Sep 2012 00:53

China’s New Stealth Fighter Gambit
September 21, 2012

http://thediplomat.com/2012/09/21/china ... -gambit/2/

Was the jet crafted from stolen intelligence? Could it be used on China's new aircraft carrier? With photos appearing online of another Chinese stealth fighter, questions are mounting.
PLAAF

China’s defense industry seems to be up to its new trick of unveiling its latest toy when a senior U.S. official visits Beijing.

Following the playbook established in January 2011 when Chengdu’s J-20 stealth fighter had its maiden test flight just in time to overshadow the visit of then-Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, rival aerospace firm Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) accidentally-on-purpose allowed some high-definition images of its own fifth-generation fighter jet to appear on the web over the weekend. Coincidentally, current Pentagon chief Leon Panetta had just kicked off an Asian tour that included a stopover in Beijing.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton may have been on the end of a similar welcome when she visited China in early September. Grainy images of the PLA Navy’s latest destroyer, the Type 052D, turned up on the web along with a Global Times story just as CCP heir apparent Xi Jinping vanished for two weeks.

In truth, the Shen Fei (or Falcon Eagle), as SAC appears to have nicknamed the aircraft judging from its tail markings, is less of a mystery than the J-20 was when it emerged. As J. Michael Cole noted here in August, a Shen Fei-shaped airframe covered in camouflaged webbing enjoyed a well-publicized tour of China’s road network in June on its way from Shenyang to the China Flight Test Establishment at Xian-Yanglian Airbase, Shaanxi Province.

Now the wraps are off, it’s clear that the Shen Fei is based on a design dubbed the F-60 that has been doing the rounds as a model aircraft since at least September 2011. Described by IHS Jane’s aviation expert Robert Hewson as an “F-35-sized F-22”, it is much closer in platform than the J-20 to these two Lockheed Martin designs, which are fulfilling the U.S.’ next-generation manned fighter requirements.

Some argue that the Shen Fei is a result of some pretty serious cyber-espionage, which may explain why Panetta brought up "the growing threat posed to both economic and security interests by cyber intrusions" in his meeting with Chinese Defense Minister General Liang Guanglie on September 18. And although Western intelligence officials regularly imply that Chinese technological advances are aided by the dark arts, a glance at the F-22, F-35, Russia’s T-50 PAK FA and Japan’s ATD-X show that stealthy fifth-generation fighters tend to have a similar platform.

The Shen Fei and J-20 continue this trend, but the complexities of modern fighter aircraft design and production suggest that there’s still plenty of work for both SAC and Chengdu to do before they can compete with Russia and the West. As Lockheed Martin has found out with the both the F-22 and the F-35, fifth-generation fighters are hard to get right: the F-22 was recently grounded with a system problem that was causing pilots to black out, while the F-35 is behind schedule, over budget and testing the patience of the U.S. Air Force to the limits.

The key challenge facing Chinese designers is not in coming up with a stealthy platform, but the systems that go inside it. These include electro-optic sensors and an AESA fire-control radar – a generational jump in technology that comes as standard on F-35s and F-22s; stealthy coatings; and reliable engines. The latter are a particular bugbear for China, which has for years relied on Russian technology to power its fast jets. Many Western observers believe the Shen Fei is powered by two Russian-sourced Klimov RD-93 turbofans, reinforcing perceptions that this particular weakness is holding China back. The fact that the same images show that these engines appear to be ill-fitting suggests that Shenyang may be following the lead of Chengdu, which is believed to be trying out a number of different engines on the J-20.

But in other ways the Shen Fei is different from the J-20. Its unveiling did not include a test flight or state media coverage and it is not painted in PLA Air Force colors or markings. That suggests that it may be a company-financed project and would also corroborate reports that Chengdu beat SAC with the J-20 to provide the PLAAF with its fifth-gen fighter. Then again, the two platforms’ differing size also supports assertions that they could have different roles: the J-20 a long-range strike aircraft, with the Shen Fei acting as an air-superiority fighter.

As with most indigenous Chinese military programs, much is shrouded in mystery and speculation. The Shen Fei’s twin-wheel nose gear has led some to argue that it could be a future carrier fighter (on account of the reinforced undercarriage that most carrier-based aircraft are fitted with). Alternatively, it could be that SAC has just borrowed the technology from the Sukhoi Su-33-derived J-15 that it is building for the PLA Navy.

Either way, the Shen Fei’s appearance after years of rumors, scale models and surreal sightings has confirmed one thing: that China-watching occasionally has its benefits. Given Beijing’s punitive attitude to official secrets and the understandable concern around the Asia-Pacific region at its myriad military programs, it’s a relief that this 21st century version of Kremlinology pays off, at least some of the time.

James Hardy is Asia-Pacific Editor of IHS Jane's Defence Weekly.
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Samay · Post by **Samay** » 24 Sep 2012 01:10

Sometimes I wonder that whenever we refer to china's MI complex or China, we can call it COPINA or simply C.C. or CChina instead ,
they seem to copy just anything, why cant they copy democracy, free thinking, freedom etc..
just an idea

wong · Post by **wong** » 24 Sep 2012 03:21

Brando wrote:
wong wrote:
Indians keep their home made ships 0.00001 miles from the shoreline.

The Kolkata Class for the last 9 years...

LOL much better than China...Chinese build their "copied" ships -800 miles from the shoreline !!

Chinese "concrete" carrier in Wuhan

FYI - Kolkata class 2nd ship INS Kochi launched in 2009. Poor India doesn't have Sovremenny class destroyer to copy into the Type 052C destroyers like China!

Maybe PLA will "copy" the P15A design once its fitted out and "leak" it on internet forums?? LOL

Not a single Kolkatas class has ever become operational. This is the Indian version of "launched" (what everybody else calls rusting and far from finished).

You can make out the tip of the third rust bucket in the right corner. The authenticity of these pics with all 3 Kolkatas rusting away can be easily verified by Google Maps (look up Mazagon Docks, Mumbai, India).

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 24 Sep 2012 08:50

^^I guess someone has a new loan to pay off, he has been hard at work for a few weeks. I wonder if his girlfriend/wife threatened to leave him unless he sported a little more bling.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 24 Sep 2012 09:08

Seeing the shivaliks and Talwars joining IN the chinks must be shitting bricks over the type-54 garbage they managed to create. Now wqith Barak-8 and P-15a/b's it completely ruins there dream of having ever being able to do a voyage out of SCS.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Sep 2012 09:37

yep. the went out a bit too fast, and are now realising the pitfalls.
but they had no option - the jiangwei and jianghu's are even more obsolete....to even show the flag against powerful parties like usn, jmsdf, soko over a wide area they need a lot of ships.

member_23360 · Post by **member_23360** » 24 Sep 2012 21:16

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/China_n ... t_999.html

China's first aircraft carrier was handed over Sunday to the navy of the People's Liberation Army, state press said, amid rising tensions over disputed waters in the East and South China Seas.

The handover ceremony of the 300-metre (990-foot) ship, a former Soviet carrier called the Varyag, took place in northeast China's port of Dalian after a lengthy refitting by a Chinese shipbuilder, the Global Times reported.

During the handover ceremony the aircraft carrier raised the Chinese national flag on its mast, the PLA flag on its bow and the navy's colours on its stern, the short online report said.

A ceremony to place the ship into active service would be held sometime in the future, the paper said without elaboration.

China's defence ministry was unavailable to comment on the ceremony.

The announcement comes at a time of heightened tensions over maritime disputes in the Asia-Pacific region, where China's growing assertiveness has put it on a collision course with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines.

China also Sunday postponed a ceremony marking the 40th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic ties with Japan, due to a noisy territorial dispute with Tokyo over the Diaoyu Islands, known in Japanese as Senkaku.

Tensions have also risen this year with Vietnam and the Philippines over disputed islands in the South China Sea.

Beijing confirmed last year it was revamping the old Soviet ship, and has repeatedly insisted the carrier poses no threat to its neighbours and will be used mainly for training and research purposes.

But numerous sea trials of the aircraft carrier -- currently only known as "Number 16" -- since August 2011 were met with concern from regional powers including Japan and the United States, which called on Beijing to explain why it needed an aircraft carrier.

Construction of the Varyag originally ended with the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

China reportedly bought the carrier's immense armoured hull -- with no engine, electrics or propeller -- from Ukraine in 1998 and began to refit the vessel in Dalian in 2002.

The PLA -- the world's largest active military -- is extremely secretive about its defence programmes, which benefit from a huge and expanding military budget boosted by the nation's runaway economic growth.

China's military budget officially reached $106 billion in 2012, an 11.2 percent increase.

According to a report issued by the Pentagon in May, Beijing is pouring money into advanced air defenses, submarines, anti-satellite weapons and anti-ship missiles that could all be used to deny an adversary access to strategic areas, such as the South China Sea.

China's real defense spending amounts to between $120 to $180 billion, the report said.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 25 Sep 2012 02:42

wong wrote: Not a single Kolkatas class has ever become operational. This is the Indian version of "launched" (what everybody else calls rusting and far from finished).

You can make out the tip of the third rust bucket in the right corner. The authenticity of these pics with all 3 Kolkatas rusting away can be easily verified by Google Maps (look up Mazagon Docks, Mumbai, India).

Who said anything about "operational" ? Has the Indian navy accepted it to be "operational" ?? The ships are ready with only the fitting out left to be done. Strange as it may sound some countries in the world like India actually develop their own weapon systems instead of just buying the S-300 SAM from the Russians, copying and calling in HQ-9 and slapping it on a destroyer! Clearly, using Wikipedia as your primary source of intelligence isn't working out too well for you and neither is Google Maps. Here, let me blow your mind: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/50 ... 15a22.jpg/

As to rust buckets- the left for dead Varyag cruiser sold for $20 million as scrap to a Hong Kong company to convert into an amusement park that has been ACTUALLY rusting for 20 Years all over the world, first in Ukraine, then in the Mediterranean and then in the South China Sea is clearly NOT a rust bucket because Chinese nationalism has scared all the rust away. No, that is the pride of the Chinese Navy! The Chinese version of "operational", the Chinese navy accepting and raising its flag on an Aircraft carrier with no aircraft !! : http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo ... 868824.htm
(**Notice the Ballast ports and the "rust" on pride of China's fleet: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo ... 824_10.htm **)

Congratulations, you Chinese are now the proud owners of the worlds largest ~~rust bucket~~ garbage scow!

John · Post by **John** » 25 Sep 2012 04:00

wong wrote:Not a single Kolkatas class has ever become operational. This is the Indian version of "launched" (what everybody else calls rusting and far from finished).

You can make out the tip of the third rust bucket in the right corner. The authenticity of these pics with all 3 Kolkatas rusting away can be easily verified by Google Maps (look up Mazagon Docks, Mumbai, India).

There is more recent photo from 3 months ago which shows the secondary radar and ak-630s installed on both Kochi and Kolkata which we already discussed, till LR-SAM is ready these vessels won't be commissioned. As i already pointed unlike PLAN has 5 times IN's budget (based on disclosed amount god knows how much PLAN is truely spending) if IN had that budget will have 3 carrier fleet operational along the fleet of Akula clones', PLAN current approach is to building incremental designs which IN cannot afford. So it is quality vs quantity approach as it stands P-15A is superior design to any other DDG class with exception of Aegis destroyers' and Type 45 (original fit).

Ironically P-15A would have been commissioned long back if IN had stuck with original plans which was to have Rif-M and Brahmos in inclined launchers.