Indian Autos Thread

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Sep 2012 20:22

^ there would a certain rpm that produces most fuel efficiency and whatever speed that translates into while driving - would be your cruising range FE speed. Probably changes by model due to weight and branding (sporty car, family car etc).

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Sep 2012 13:43

Gus-> that's why I am bit confused on Paddle shifters mentioned for 2.4 liter sports auto model in the Accord 2013 which comes with CVT. How do paddle shifters work when there is no gear to change?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Sep 2012 14:42

^ I guess to make it 'sporty' for a while before the standard algorithm optimized for fuel efficiency takes over.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Sep 2012 15:13

Thanks! that what I thought, If CVT like 2013 Accord are more fuel efficient than manual, I see them with Not shifting gears becoming a major hit in India.

I personally prefer manuals, but for people like my SHQ this will be God send. I suspect 70-80% of Indians will start buying CVT's.

That is when introduced in the Brio's, hatchback Diesels, not TFTA Accord.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Sep 2012 18:36

Saw a Prius on the road in OMR. Wonder if it makes sense to buy a 30 lac (picked from some website, is that right?) vehicle for savings with hybrid.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Sep 2012 18:39

Aditya_V wrote:Thanks! that what I thought, If CVT like 2013 Accord are more fuel efficient than manual, I see them with Not shifting gears becoming a major hit in India.

Mass adoption will be a problem if savings are not high enough. Due to economies of scale, the manual GB car will always be lot cheaper than autos and CVTs.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 24 Sep 2012 19:01

Folks, I am planning to buy a new car. Budget is about 4.5 lakhs. I am confused between Wagon R and Ritz, both petrol versions. Is anyone driving these cars? What is the fuel efficiency I can expect and which one to go for? Any advice?

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 24 Sep 2012 19:42

Have you considered the Brio, my grandfather just bought it and it's amazing. It's in your budget too.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 24 Sep 2012 19:42

Varunkumar -> I doubt you will get Ritz under at INR 4.5 Lacs, remember ex Price excludes life tax, Insurance, registration etc. coming to approx 15% of the car cost. If INR 4.5 Lacs is not the limit go for the Ritz which is a far better car than the dated Wagon R.

Base version of Brio might also be in your Budget.

But remember in these base versions you would need to buy the Stereo system, remote locks, along with seat covers, mats etc which will cost 20K

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 24 Sep 2012 19:57

Aditya_V wrote:Varunkumar -> I doubt you will get Ritz under at INR 4.5 Lacs, remember ex Price excludes life tax, Insurance, registration etc. coming to approx 15% of the car cost. If INR 4.5 Lacs is not the limit go for the Ritz which is a far better car than the dated Wagon R

Ritz LXI on road is costing me Rs 4.30 lakhs in Delhi. (They quote Rs 4.65 lakhs and then offer Rs 35 K discount

) Wagon R LXI is exactly 4 lakhs on road. I am a bit terrified of Ritz's FE -- some people say it is 11 or 12 km per liter, compared to Wagon R's 14 or 15. I don't want to go for CNG because I will lose the boot space.

Ritz is sturdy and built like a tank. Wagon R on the other hand looks very delicate, with thin sheet metal. The car will be driven by SHQ (around 1000 km a month on average) and I am worried about safety in Wagon R, but I am also anxous about Ritz's FE. Is anyone driving Rtiz petrol? How much actual FE does it give on road?

Aniket, thanks for the suggestion. Brio is also very tempting. Can you ask your granpa how much FE is it giving on road and how expensive are service and spare parts compared to Maruti?

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 24 Sep 2012 20:36

Even with my grandfather's driving style Brio first gave around 10 kmpl in bumper to bumper traffic with ac use. According to a few reviews I read, the FE goes up. It should give around 14 to 15 kmpl. Believe it's a mind blowing package. Also I think servicing costs are pretty low and since the Brio is made up of different parts from different cars and with most of them being produced in India spares are pretty cheap.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Sep 2012 22:07

varunkumar wrote:Ritz is sturdy and built like a tank. Wagon R on the other hand looks very delicate, with thin sheet metal.

you shouldn't throw words like 'built like a tank' casually around..more so with a Maruti product.

The Ritz is more polished and definitely an upgrade over Wagon R - which is dated and past its prime.

Still, the LXI does not have ABS, Air bags to warrant a "it is a safe car" stamp.

If it is purely a commute car for single or two passenger, go for an even smaller car (if you have another one for the family). Why would you need a 'built like a tank' car for city commute. Better to have a small zippy one.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Sep 2012 15:07

^^^

Varun, as a Ritz LDI owner in Delhi, I'd advise you to go for it. The car is well proportioned. My family has traveled over a 1000 Kms in a single day using that car comfortably.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 25 Sep 2012 15:49

Thanks Pratyush. Ritz it is then. This Diwali I will buy.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 26 Sep 2012 20:33

I own a wagon-r lpg version and have been very happy with it. I get fuel efficiency of 11-12 km with AC on 100%. No hatchback will give you any form of decent safety for the price range they come in. I had a tavera hit me at 30km from the side and I had to replace the entire rear right door. The wagon-r may be a dated design, boxy in looks, but no hatchback bar i20 gives me the kind of legroom in drivers seat as does the wagon-r. My son is 2.5 years old and he loves standing up on the seat and moving between front and back seat easily, thats possible only in wagon-r.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Sep 2012 20:53

varunkumar wrote:Folks, I am planning to buy a new car. Budget is about 4.5 lakhs. I am confused between Wagon R and Ritz, both petrol versions. Is anyone driving these cars? What is the fuel efficiency I can expect and which one to go for? Any advice?

Quick advise - Maruti has introduced new tweaked model of Ritz...the petrol version will hit showrooms in October. They had introduced a cash discount of INR 35,000 on petrol version to push out the old version. The on road price of old Ritz VXI (w/o ABS) in Gurgaon is INR 490,000..the new Ritz VXI (w/o VXI) is priced at INR 497,000. I'm not sure if they'll extend the cash discount to the new petrol model. So, if you hope to buy Ritz, you'll need to check the lowest model which I think is LXI.

Or, if you move quickly, book the old version of Ritz Petrol VXI and avail the 35K discount.

There is a similar cash discount going on Wagon R and topmost model would be well within your budget. This discount may well continue into October. Hope this helps.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 27 Sep 2012 20:00

^^^ thnx Rohit and Yogi -- I will wait to see the new petrol version of Ritz in Oct, though I am determined to go for Ritz now.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Sep 2012 03:20

Is there any crash testing data on any of these dabba cars? /sorry, this is just to enlighten our people so that they start thinking about actual needs and wants, and not just showy car. appun ki paas bhi car hai!

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Oct 2012 08:08

Women to assemble scooters for women at Yamaha plant

Yamaha India has started a new assembly line for scooters which will be operated entirely by women. This is the first time in India that a company has developed scooters for women assembled by women.
The company has hired around 200 women to run its assembly line for scooters at the Surajpur plant in UP.

Commenting on the occasion, India Yamaha Motor national business head Roy Kurian said, "This is the first time in Yamaha's history, not only in India but worldwide, that the company has started an assembly line which is run exclusively by women. Being the pioneers in this movement, Yamaha certainly hopes to see this initiative being replicated across the industry."

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Oct 2012 20:54

SIT report on Maruti violence says workers’ aim was to kill

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 16 Nov 2012 15:54

Suzuki has recently unveiled a completely revamped model of its mainstay Wagon R small car that is said to be 22% more fuel efficient than existing model. Thanks to a lighter body, an improved engine and is a system that converts energy produced when braking into electricity, the car can travel 28.8km per liter. The air conditioner is designed to produce cool air using coolants even in the idling stop mode. Suzuki Chairman and President Osamu Suzuki told reporters that small car sales would grow in Asia, India and other emerging markets, and that the automaker will strive to expand small car sales in Japan and abroad.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 05:16

anyone driven mahindra xuv-500? feedback?

was reviewing cardekho for the list of xuvs in desh.. this one segment should have been bigger in desh, and heck I can't find decent utility vehicles that is catering to medium use category.. something like subaru outback [utility value] by mahindra pricing would have been a big hit.

we need right sized suv, with enough cargo space at the back. 4+2 seater is fine too, but it should not be compact nor large.

right sized SUVs like CRV, XUV doesn't pack everything in it or highly priced.

mahindra just being an integrator of tech by beg-borrow techniques would not last long.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Dec 2012 06:05

This time in Calcutta I was amazed to see the huge number of Audi A4s and A6s on the road (with a smattering with BMW 7 series and Mercs) outside the Azad Hind dhaaba. Somehow the Audi A6 sold in India looked bigger to me than the one sold in massa!

Was out during Kali Puja and went to the Azad Hind dhaaba and saw this huge painting from MF Hussain there probably worth several million $, with cashier resting his oily head against it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 07:10

may be you are viewing them comparing other compact cars in desh like the maruti alto shalto shtuffs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Dec 2012 14:51

Xuv is selling well i think. A guy i know sold his civic nd wentbxuv

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Dec 2012 19:20

Wish the XUV was offered as a AT variant too like in the case of Scorpio, then I would get interested.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 19:29

I saw the tube on XUV 500.. pretty impressive set of features. I hope mahindra pulls off a nice AT for this puppy, as the aam market is sick and tired of stick-shift systems. Of course, when the brain has not tasted AT, this will not be felt.. hope GoI steps in and gives subsidy for ATs.. it is a must to have in desh traffic.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 02 Dec 2012 19:45

The idea for AT has to be sold as minority appeasement.

Minorities being random NRIs and wimmens who cannot care less about stick shift feel. The market for autos in desh is largely limited even now, when aam aadmis enter the market in bigger share is when demand for AT variants will hit a high crescendo. Till then rest of us will need to suck it up and live with the reality of a hired driver. Not to mention road etiquette, which has to come first for democratic access to public roads. Right now it is for the mighty and loud and aggressive ones alone.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 19:47

ignore NRIs.. appease wimmen folks of aam desh. NRI's just dont create any long term impact that makes GoI thinks. Just create a nice story line, and say, hello baboo.. if this story hits the market, you can have the name for yourself, and votes will follow you. that is all it takes.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Dec 2012 22:12

Nano rolls into Jamaica
...
But it is in that very truncated bonnet where the Tata Nano pins its greatest hopes of winning over a Jamaican public which must balance its love of flash, features and fast with high - and often rising - gas prices. The rear-engined Nano takes in its fuel at the front, then miserly sips it to return a loudly and proudly claimed 60 miles per gallon, or 26 kilometres per litre.

Another gas claim is emblazoned on the orange Tata Nano which, along with a white model, heralds the hoped for Tata takeover of the mini people-mover market.

.. the Nano should have been introduced to the Dominican Republic first. However, due to social instability there Jamaica was chosen for the Nano's Caribbean debut. He said Trinidad and the Dominican Republic - not necessarily in that order - will get the Nano next.

Its retailing for ~10K USD in Jamaica.
Africa, Latin America , Southeast asia still represent a huge untapped market for this Idea.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Dec 2012 23:10

imho, nano and compact cars are safety hazard.. though it is only convenient to indic narrow streets. death rates from traffic alone comes from small vehicles, and more so from two wheelers. indirectly, we are killing ourselves by providing such a setup/facilities.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Dec 2012 00:36

Saik ji,

Keeping aside the actual merits of your contention - which may or may not hold ,
Let that safety argument be left to be made by oirope and massaland companies - as they suarly will to scuttle nano's roll out in their respective local markets (the real reason is that nano is too much of a gamechanger if allowed a fair chance).

In the mean-e-time, for Africa,Latin America,Southeast Asia (which still have bad roads - so less avg speeds) and for urban commutes all over the world, the affordable mini car concept is a perfect fit.

Much of the world still doesnt have interstates, autobahns and what not (actually may never opt for for such high speed road networks for passenger traffic - which were all conceived in an era of cheap petrol).

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 03 Dec 2012 00:51

I will take Nano over a two-wheeler any day.

Given the F1 style driving tendencies of cab drivers and neo-rich in badlands of the Gurgaon, I am seriously thinking of buying a Nano for wife for undertaking daily chores...as it is, she does not ride a two-wheeler and takes a cycle or auto rickshaw when required to move around for domestic chores...driving two-wheeler here is inherently dangerous. Nano offers the safety and security...in fact, I have seen many women using the same for daily office commute...it is a good second vehicle for wife.

Here is a small anecdote - couple of months back, wife and self had walked over to ice cream stall next to house...shortly afterwards, a family of four arrived in a Nano...the kids were in 2-6 age bracket....and the family looked typical lower middle class...to me, Nano offered them safety and security (imagine a family of four on a two-wheeler) and time to have fun. To me, these attributes are the biggest plus points in favor of Nano.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Dec 2012 02:49

No, I am not taking western view.. I would rather go by some crash test report. Another aspect is from accidents, many are incapacitated.. and become vegetables in life. Such cases, definitely can be prevented by better constructions and designs. Of course, given any conditions, anyone can reach a different lok in any type of secured vehicle. besides, that point.. is that we are cutting corners for whose safety is my question?

When you compare two vehicles, you can get an idea.. take accident situations and crashes that does not cause death, but puts people in serious injuries. An amby might be safer and will reduce serious injuries compared to nano.

so, this is where we need to establish indian crash test standards... that is particularly tailored for our traffic, roads and vehicles.

another example: Tata Safari vs. Nano for safety? of course safari [there is no western thoughts here, by the example

].

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Dec 2012 03:56

SaiK wrote:... death rates from traffic alone comes from small vehicles, and more so from two wheelers. indirectly, we are killing ourselves by providing such a setup/facilities.

Saik ji,
Addressing your argument itself, i think death rates are a direct proportion to speed and inverse exponential proportion to "the quality of the transport system as a whole" (of which protection offered by the car chassis is but a single factor).

In this context in addition to rohitji's anecdote , let me offer another.
Long time ago, once my mother was travelling on the pillion of my father's bike just after dusk on a semi rural black top in the outskirts .. suddenly a buffalo bolted across from the bushes causing the bike to lose control and crash side ways - unfortunately weight was put on her wrist in the crash and she suffered a fracture . Now the cowherd's conjecture was that buffalo was probably spooked by a snake in the bush because of which it bolted like it did !!

Now if we consider these "bolting buffalo" incidents (including those from apparently suicidal jaywalkers, rogue auto-rikshaws jerking into adjacent lanes, gear-less scooters whizzing in at odd angles, uncovered manholes, cows/dogs squatting in the middle of roads, lack of safe mountain roads etc) as personifications of the unpredictability in our transport systems - much of the death on indian roads can be attributed to this unpredictability, yet the no of fatal accidents per car per 1000 km traveled would be still significantly less compared to say US, mainly because of slow avg speeds.

As in case of most accidents, lack of airbags, a significant frontal crumple zone ,ABS wont be reason for deaths in Nano - SPEED will be the likely reason for death (ref recent death of Yerramnaidu in a speeding Amby). But then Nano (top speed ceiling of 100km/hr) can hardly cruise above 75km/hr comfortably - so here the speed will be probably be of the other vehicle (in case of a frontal collision).

And if its safari vs nano , SUVs are more prone to rollover accidents than typical sedans and also tend to cruise at significantly higher top speeds than other vehicles.
Here, using your argument , one has to conclude that we are killing ourselves by building and allowing SUVs onto our roads.

So as you imply, let the prevailing indian conditions determine the required degree of "tankness" of a car not western standards and their crash testing reports.

Ill end by saying that Nano is a step up in security for an average indian commuter, not a step down and that statement is applicable to rest of the turd world commuters as well.

Edit: Looks like the version being rolled out for massaland will be safer - but is it safe enough or will it be perceived to be safe enough - only the massa media can tell
http://www.carkhabri.com/carnews/tata-n ... in-america

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Dec 2012 05:39

I don't defy your arguments in any way, as what you are saying is true.. but what i am seeing is we have made a setup, and the setup was not given to us by force. Hence, we have the ability to ensure if the snake threatened buffalo was prevented by a strong fence or a strategic fence good enough to not to disturb any traffic in a way that causes harm. So, there is no clear wall.

it is easy to argue about indic requirements.. gone are the days, when we all accept that we don't have money to do, yadi yada.. we just need to drive the market by asking for the right product, boycotting the rest since, our institutions are corrupt that and we can't afford to fight them. the only is by people education and people movement like hazare et al have done.. but this is more towards getting everyone to be aware that a minimum standard car would be this, and these are the specs, etc. considering everything, I don't think nano fits the specs., however delta it may show improvement over just walking on the street is dangerous than driving a nano.. Yes.. perfectly valid there.

forget that.. let us consider a world of nanos only.. no other vehicle types are on the road say at 60kmph, head on collision happens. take that scenario... and compare it with say scorpio or safari or even amby. we all need to agree to a minimum set of standards in a car.. must haves.. and that is where I am saying, we have not done a good job. It is difficult to seek vote for a standardization, because people just don't know what is the actual requirement, as the needs are changing day to day.. and as better cars for the right price comes up, people think twice.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Dec 2012 03:53

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... epage=true
that is a strong car!-/no idea on the impact event though.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 04 Dec 2012 05:19

Saik,

Nano has been crash tested to some (all from memory) to around 40 kmph. The video is on youtube. The latest and greatest test is around 50kmph.

It is more crash worthy than all of maruti's products earlier to around 2005, i.e. 800, zen, and co. I think swift was teh first vehicle from maruti stable which was equivalent or just exceeding nano's crash limits. As always, google is your best friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMo-bxnBE0

schowdhuri · Post by **schowdhuri** » 05 Dec 2012 20:37

SaiK wrote:let us consider a world of nanos only.. no other vehicle types are on the road say at 60kmph, head on collision happens. take that scenario... and compare it with say scorpio or safari or even amby. we all need to agree to a minimum set of standards in a car.. must haves.. and that is where I am saying, we have not done a good job. It is difficult to seek vote for a standardization, because people just don't know what is the actual requirement, as the needs are changing day to day.. and as better cars for the right price comes up, people think twice.

I would love to see the place in India where you can drive at 60kmph - safely that is. If you are talking about the highway, Nano is surely not meant for that.

Also, try parking that Scorpio in any decent place on a weekend, and you will certainly wish you had a Nano instead.

Why compare with Safari, Scorpio etc - since you are going way out of the Nano's price range, why not Volvo instead - that's supposed to be safe

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Dec 2012 21:14

schowdhuri wrote:I would love to see the place in India where you can drive at 60kmph - safely that is. If you are talking about the highway, Nano is surely not meant for that.

Thanks.. we have one listed out as big NO NO for nano.

since you are going way out of the Nano's price range, why not Volvo instead - that's supposed to be safe

My point was about right priced right utility vehicle would be the most useful vehicle.. say like the older Toyota RAV4, which was a bit smaller and right sized. for indic conditions, 2+3 rear seater+room space at trunk for loads, is a good config. The price of mahindra is right, but again could be reduced.. 'cause mahindra has problems in the overheads as they have to integrated with many bought out technologies and they are not going to easily having a faster ROI.

An 8L-10L with AT on XUV500, but sized like the older rav4 was my thought.

When I said 60kmph.. I thought I was right for the optimum speed one should be driving on decent roads.. however, you are right on the issues where we still are eons away from corrections. roads thread should register a big list of things that we need for the future.

imho, nano has no future.. or will not serve anything other than some office going.. but when you consider worse traffic of bangalore etc.. one would not prefer road at all.

I am only biased on the utility value of these vehicles for desh needs, but also looking further into the future.