India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

kshatriya · Post by **kshatriya** » 12 Sep 2012 19:06

Local Tamil News are reporting that Udayakumar and co are forcing to send atleast one person from each family for protests... People who refused are ostracized.

EJ's , LTTE Remnants, Leftist organizations, Naxal fronts are all in it this time.... Hope the Govt catches him and put him in place

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 12 Sep 2012 21:50

Only solution is to throw him out of the country. Issue shoot at sight orders. ehehehe

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2012 22:05

Philip, I think the church based NGOs have been press ganged/channelled to stop the Russian plants from being operationalised. Quo bono? is the question to ask.

At same time a lot of disgruntled elements are converging on the new cause celebre!

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 14 Sep 2012 16:13

The real questions from Kudankulam
Rahul Siddharthan

In an atmosphere of mistrust of the government, only an independent safety regulatory mechanism can counter the scaremongering against civilian nuclear power

I work at an institution funded by the Department of Atomic Energy (which, however, does no nuclear research: the DAE funds a wide variety of institutions and areas in science). About a year ago, I had an e-mail from a journalist who wondered why scientists (including colleagues at my institution), who were so outspoken in their opposition to nuclear weapons, were silent about nuclear power. I suggested that perhaps most scientists are not opposed to civilian nuclear power. India’s scientific academies may prefer to be silent on most issues of importance, but individual Indian scientists are an outspoken lot — they have contributed to the public debate on a variety of issues, ranging from nuclear weapons in the late 1990s to genetically modified crops more recently. If there were a genuine debate to be had on the safety or desirability of nuclear power, I would expect Indian scientists to actively participate in it.

Concrete, not abstract

And in fact there is a genuine debate to be had, but it is not an abstract debate about the safety or desirability of nuclear power. It is a concrete debate about the mechanisms for ensuring safety and transparency. Unfortunately, in all the noise about Kudankulam, this issue has received comparatively little attention in the media.

Since the Fukushima earthquake, worries about nuclear power have been widespread around the world. One person whose mind was changed was the environmental activist George Monbiot: writing in the British newspaper The Guardian on March 21, 2011, he declared: “As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology.” His reason was that despite the magnitude of the disaster, the age of the plant, and the inadequate safety features, which led to a meltdown, nobody, as far as we know, had yet received a lethal dose of radiation. This convinced him that well-maintained plants built to modern safety standards pose little threat to the public. Meanwhile, we are facing unprecedented demands for energy, and global warming, driven by accelerating use of fossil fuels and resulting in rising sea levels and extreme weather, presents the biggest environmental threat to the world — especially, one should note, to poor coastal fishing communities such as the one at Kudankulam.

A little before Monbiot’s article, Randall Munroe, creator of the XKCD web comic, published a comparison of various forms of ionising radiation, measured in microsieverts, drawn from public sources (see http://xkcd.com/radiation). This widely circulated chart (also cited by Monbiot) suggested that the annual radiation exposure from living within 50 miles of a nuclear power plant is about the same as that from eating a single banana (each being 0.1 microsieverts); the extra dose that Tokyo residents received following Fukushima (about 40 microsieverts) was about a tenth of the yearly dose from natural radioactive potassium in the body (about 390 microsieverts); and the maximum external dose from the Three Mile Island accident (about 1,000 microsieverts) is about a quarter of the normal yearly background dose (4,000 microsieverts, of which about 85 per cent is from natural sources and most of the rest from medical scans).

This is not to minimise the effects of disasters when they do occur. The radiation dose from spending one hour in Chernobyl, in 2010, is much more than the normal yearly “background” dose, and more than the maximum monthly dose permitted for radiation workers in the United States. We need to prevent a Chernobyl-type disaster from ever happening again, anywhere in the world. To quote Monbiot again: “I’m not proposing complacency here. I am proposing perspective.”

When an activist asked me last year whether I would feel safe living near a nuclear plant, I responded that I would consider living in Kalpakkam or Kudankulam much safer and healthier than living in Chennai (or any other Indian metro). She was taken aback, but responded that, nevertheless, the villagers do not feel that way, and we city people should not speak for the villagers.

Unfortunately, this has been the quality of the public debate on Kudankulam so far (and on other contentious nuclear projects like Jaitapur). Perceptions on safety matter more than facts. This is not totally a bad thing: public worry over nuclear power, especially since Chernobyl, has probably contributed to its extraordinary safety – just as the perceived dangers of air travel have made it by far the safest form of travel.

India, and Tamil Nadu in particular, faces a severe shortfall of energy. The environmental and societal damage from hydroelectric power is now well-known. Power plants running on fossil fuels, especially coal (the dominant fuel in India), cause incalculably more damage — including in ionising radiation — than nuclear power. Wind power is promising but, when implemented on a large scale, has its own environmental concerns, particularly to migratory birds. Solar panels are expensive, inefficient, and depend on rare earth elements, the mining of which, again, causes environmental damage. Monbiot’s decision to support nuclear energy is not surprising. What is surprising is the reluctance of other environmentalists to do the same.

To support civilian nuclear power with safeguards, in the abstract, is not the same as to support a particular power project. There may be valid safety or environmental concerns about a particular power project. There may be concerns about resettlement and rehabilitation of displaced people. The DAE needs to work out how to address these concerns in order to prevent similar problems with upcoming power projects. But it cannot do that on its own. We need independent oversight.

Civilian and military use

Unfortunately, for most of its history in India, civilian nuclear power has been deeply intertwined with the nuclear weapons project. As a result, the atomic energy establishment and the government have opposed any kind of external scrutiny of their projects. That has been changing in recent years. In 2005, India undertook, in an agreement with the U.S., to separate its civilian and military nuclear facilities and to place the former under International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) safeguards. The safeguards agreement was signed with the IAEA in 2009. However, these safeguards are mainly concerned with proliferation of nuclear materials, not with the safety of the plant itself.

The Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) is the main organisation concerned with nuclear safety in India. The AERB was severely criticised by the Comptroller and Auditor General in August this year on numerous grounds, including not preparing a nuclear safety policy despite having had a mandate to do so since 1983; failing to prepare 27 of 168 safety documents; not having a detailed inventory of all radiation sources; and failure to adopt international practices. Currently a bill is pending to replace the AERB with a Nuclear Safety Regulatory Authority (NSRA). In December 5, 2011, in an article in DNA (Mumbai), former AERB chairman A. Gopalakrishnan argued forcefully for an independent regulatory mechanism along the lines of the Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) in France, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) in the U.S., and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (CNSC). All these organisations, though appointed by the government, are independent, free of political and corporate influence, transparent, and communicate regularly with the public. Dr. Gopalakrishnan fears that the NSRA, as proposed, will be subject to government pressure and manipulation.

No trust

Intertwined with distrust of the DAE is a larger distrust of the Indian government. Given our inability to maintain the railways, highways, postal department, and other necessary infrastructure in good working order, why should our government be trusted to maintain nuclear plants? It is a good question and deserves a good answer. The DAE may be an excellent organisation, but it must be seen to be excellent, and only openness and external scrutiny will provide that. The NSRA bill deserves much greater media attention and debate than it has received so far.

Unfortunately, this much-needed debate does not appear to be occurring: the activists, with their maximalist demand for stopping all nuclear power projects, not only discredit themselves, but let the government off the hook. The Indian public is aware of the power crisis and is not inclined to oppose nuclear power. The largest political parties in Tamil Nadu, too, have proven reluctant to back the anti-nuclear protests. The media have largely failed to ask the right questions. As a result, there is no pressure on the government, or on the DAE, to ensure transparency or to institute a genuinely independent regulatory body along the lines of proven international examples.

Meanwhile, the protesting locals at Kudankulam, who have now reportedly been persuaded to enter the sea in a “jal satyagraha,” seem to be victims only of unfounded scaremongering. All sympathies to them; but my sympathies, at least, don’t extend to the educated purveyors of motivated misinformation who, in a world of real and imminent global threats, are asking the villagers to act against their own best interests.

(Rahul Siddharthan is with the Institute of Mathematical Sciences, Chennai. The arguments expressed here are his personal opinions and not those of his institution.)

A very well balanced article, surprisingly, carried on The Hindu.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article3893610.ece

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Sep 2012 17:15

No trust

Intertwined with distrust of the DAE is a larger distrust of the Indian government. Given our inability to maintain the railways, highways, postal department, and other necessary infrastructure in good working order, why should our government be trusted to maintain nuclear plants? It is a good question and deserves a good answer. The DAE may be an excellent organisation, but it must be seen to be excellent, and only openness and external scrutiny will provide that. The NSRA bill deserves much greater media attention and debate than it has received so far.

Not at all bad thought.. and nice writing. kudos to chindu for putting a good one.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 Sep 2012 18:37

can it withstand a 30 ft tsunami wave?

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 15 Sep 2012 18:49

Would it have to?

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 21 Sep 2012 18:57

Fuel loading begins at Kudankulam

Hope the process up to connection with grid goes on incident free without any internal or external obstacles. This should take the discussion on KNPP to Indian Power/ Electricity thread.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2012 20:28

Kunzru Centre for Defence Studies and Research, Pune

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 21 Sep 2012 20:52

Looks like it is the 5 m seawall. The plant is much higher. The pumps are lower.
The DAE is not much different from TEPCO at Fukushima. It is safe because there will never be such a Tsunami here. If there is, the systems are inadequate.

This is always a problem with these black swan events. How do you prepare for the low probability but high damage event. The DAE should admit it has no answer for this question. In essence it too lives on hope.

BTW the Tsunami at Nagapattinam was well over 40 feet in some spots. The Tsunami at Banda Aceh itself was an incredible 150+ feet in certain areas based on off-shore topography.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 21 Sep 2012 21:00

How are the systems inadequate?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Sep 2012 21:04

By definition, one cannot prepare for black swan events. If one could then it ceases to be a black swan event.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 21 Sep 2012 21:37

Nuclear energy will form the bulk of energy generation in the future. It will become even more important due to dwindling supplies of fossil fuels and desalination. Eventually all this negativity towards it from the lefty church types will blow over. We had one catastrophic failure at Chernobyl (which was a pos soviet reactor), hydrogen gas explosion at Fukushima (30 year old reactor design which withstood an earthquake and tsunami), and negligible radiation emission from three mile island.

We need to accelerate our fast breeder and AHWR program, begin research on MSR reactor, magnetized targeted fusion, laser ignition, and laser enrichment (SILEX).

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 21 Sep 2012 23:50

The location of the plant means there is very low chance of such a big tsunami from west, north (protected by India) and east (by SriLanka). The exposed direction is really south wrt tsunami.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 Sep 2012 01:17

But there is something like interference effect which can even amplify things. No there is no protection from Sri Lanka. Waves can diffract around any object.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 25 Sep 2012 03:48

India moving closer to joining NSG, US leads the charge.

Four years after the 46-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) opened the doors for global nuclear trade for New Delhi, India is steadily inching closer to its pursuit of joining the world's top four atomic control regimes with a large number of countries in favour of getting it within the non-proliferation tent.

Marking a spectacular turnaround in global attitudes, India, which was once seen as a pariah after it went nuclear in 1998, garnered the NSG approval for the India-US civil nuclear deal and global nuclear cooperation on Sept 6, 2008.

Over the last four years, India has been lobbying with key NSG players for membership of the four key multilateral nuclear export regimes - the NSG, the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), the Australia Group and the Wassenaar Arrangement.

The result has been largely satisfying, well-placed sources close to the strategic-nuclear establishment told IANS.

"We have made steady progress. The preparatory phase is well under way," the sources said.

India feels that joining the NSG is key to the entire game as it will set the stage for it to join the other three regimes, which have different compositions and membership criteria.

"There is a general consensus that India will join the four regimes in a coordinated manner. The key to the entire game is the NSG. In our assessment, NSG is the most important," the sources said.

On this front, there is some good news to cheer. Leading NSG members, including the US, Russia, France and Britain, have already expressed support for India joining the top multilateral regimes. "A large number of countries are in favour of India joining these regimes," the sources disclosed to IANS.

Indian officials have been careful not to set any time-frame for New Delhi's entry into the four regimes but stress that the discussions are evolving in a positive manner. They cite the growing consensus in the NSG on getting India inside the tent rather than keeping it out.

India, said the sources, is being increasingly seen as a like-minded country that serves the interests and goals of the non-proliferation regimes. "India's non-proliferation record is exemplary. It's as much in India's interests as it is in the interests of the world," the sources said.

The US, the prime mover behind India's global nuclear rapprochement, is also leading the charge this time round.

In a breakthrough of sorts, the US has agreed to disassociate India's membership of the NSG from its accession to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). India has made it clear it will never join the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state as it regards the NPT as a discriminatory regime that divides the world into the nuclear haves and have-nots. In this context, the US circulated a "non-paper" on India's membership at the NSG plenary meeting held in Seattle on June 22.

The most controversial part of the paper is that NPT membership is not being seen as a "condition" for being in the NSG, carrying forward its recommendation for India's membership that the US had circulated at the last plenary at Noordwijk in the Netherlands last year.

What has brightened India's chances is that the US is helming the NSG this year.
However, as the NSG works by consensus, China may prove to be a hurdle. China had deftly hedged on the India-US civil nuclear deal and even encouraged fence-sitters in the NSG not to support the deal in days prior to the Sept 6, 2008, approval. But India is hoping that if the rest of the NSG, or at least a majority of the NSG, supports India's bid to join these regimes, Beijing will not like to be seen as a spoiler.

To buttress its credentials, India is ready to negotiate a multilateral non-discriminatory, universally verifiable Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty (FMCT), but Pakistan's opposition to the FMCT has stalled this crucial pact that seeks to curb the production of weapons-grade fissile material. India is also haromnising its national laws and nuclear safety standards with the international obligations that will flow from joining the top four regimes.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Sep 2012 10:05

Interesting, if India is now supporting the FMCT, that indicates there is a stockpile of highly enriched Pu and U235 in country. Terroristan is opposed because they don't have enough. This disproves all of the so-called experts in the west about the "hundreds" of NWs in the TSP arsenal.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Sep 2012 11:55

I hope India is not any self restraint in FMCT, MY estimate is we need 2000 warheads, to know that any TSP use means shit for the world.

Basically, we need to force China and USA to make sure TSP goes back to Nuke Nood status.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Sep 2012 19:01

Bade wrote:By definition, one cannot prepare for black swan events. If one could then it ceases to be a black swan event.

+1 Bade ji.

Theo Fidel ji,
By the way a nuclear war between India and China will also be a black swan event. Both India and China as well as world community should admit that they have no answers to this problem.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Sep 2012 19:02

RoyG wrote: We need to accelerate our fast breeder and AHWR program, begin research on MSR reactor, magnetized targeted fusion, laser ignition, and laser enrichment (SILEX).

Plus Thorium based Molten salt reactor(MSR)

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 25 Sep 2012 19:44

darshhan wrote:
Bade wrote:By definition, one cannot prepare for black swan events. If one could then it ceases to be a black swan event.
+1 Bade ji.

Theo Fidel ji,
By the way a nuclear war between India and China will also be a black swan event. Both India and China as well as world community should admit that they have no answers to this problem.

This is what Wiki says about black swan event

The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that is a surprise (to the observer), has a major impact, and after the fact is often inappropriately rationalized with the benefit of hindsight.

The theory was developed by Nassim Nicholas Taleb to explain:

*The disproportionate role of high-impact, hard-to-predict, and rare events that are beyond the realm of normal expectations in history, science, finance and technology
*The non-computability of the probability of the consequential rare events using scientific methods (owing to the very nature of small probabilities)
*The psychological biases that make people individually and collectively blind to uncertainty and unaware of the massive role of the rare event in historical affairs

Now why a N war between India and China would be such an event. Visit China related thread instead of coming to such a conclusion which defies definition .

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Sep 2012 20:33

If you stay put on any corner of this globe for 100 year+, there is a good chance a black swan event of some kind will strike you. The question is one of a low probability high impact situation.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 25 Sep 2012 20:40

The Kudankulam plant site has 2 very good advantages. If you draw a circle of evacuation land around it, half of it will fall in the sea. That means as compared to an inland site the possible affected area is halved. Second, the location of Sri Lanka prevents Tsunamis from SE Asia from damaging the plant.

Both of these are rare but if you notice, the jaitapur plant is near the West coast which again is a low tsunami risk area close to the sea. I think the first nuke plant in India (Tarapur) is also along the west coast. Its a good idea to have these along the coast in low risk areas.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 25 Sep 2012 21:15

Theo_Fidel wrote:If you stay put on any corner of this globe for 100 year+, there is a good chance a black swan event of some kind will strike you. The question is one of a low probability high impact situation.

What are you trying to get at? The reactors that are being built are much safer than the previous generation. We need nuclear power and we need it fast. What we don't need is a lefty church movement that is hell bent on keeping India in the dark. Other power sources are great and are getting better but they CANT provide 24/7 bulk power generation that is needed for large scale hi-tech industrial manufacturing so critical to challenging the West and East Asian powers. Coal will continue to be be backbone but supplies will dwindle. We need fissile feed for the AHWR, MSR & lead/chloride reactors (first conference next year), and fast breeder reactors. This is critical for our energy security and nuclear weapons development. I feel as though your fears are unwarranted at this stage. A lot of R&D has gone into producing nuclear energy and it has a good safety track record.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Sep 2012 21:37

RoyG wrote: Coal will continue to be be backbone but supplies will dwindle.

They have already started dwindling. Third and fourth generation Nuclear reactors are the best hope for India for resolving the energy crisis. Infact I would suggest in each of the major states place a Kudankulum/Jaitapur type of Nuclear cluster which can produce 10000 MW at a single location and you will get 200000 MW of power.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 25 Sep 2012 21:39

chaanakya wrote:
This is what Wiki says about black swan event

The black swan theory or theory of black swan events is a metaphor that describes an event that is a surprise (to the observer), has a major impact, and after the fact is often inappropriately rationalized with the benefit of hindsight.

The theory was developed by Nassim Nicholas Taleb to explain:

*The disproportionate role of high-impact, hard-to-predict, and rare events that are beyond the realm of normal expectations in history, science, finance and technology
*The non-computability of the probability of the consequential rare events using scientific methods (owing to the very nature of small probabilities)
*The psychological biases that make people individually and collectively blind to uncertainty and unaware of the massive role of the rare event in historical affairs
Now why a N war between India and China would be such an event. Visit China related thread instead of coming to such a conclusion which defies definition .

OK leave out the example if you do not agree to it. The mesage is more important.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2012 21:50

True its not a black swan if once can predict it.
However one can take steps to mitigate the risk. Fukushima showed that the loss of on-site power from Diesel Gens due to Tusnami waves increases the disaster.

The above graphic shows the multiple DG sets (four) are located farther (~100m inland) and higher than the reactor containment shell.

Waves like those at Bandar Aceh are not expected as there is no eqk fault zone in KK.

Location of Sri Lanka does reduce the wave height.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 25 Sep 2012 23:53

The DG may not help if the pumps are are knocked out first. While people try to anticipate black swan type events the magnitude is the key variable that can surprise. This is what happened at Fukushima. For instance there is evidence of Cat 5 Cyclones that strike the Palk area. There is record of one in 1408 that struck the Tuticorin area and generated what could have been a 40' storm surge though the written tradition speaks of a 80' wave which is extremely unlikely. Nothing like it has happened for over 500 years, all memory is lost. The 1964 Dhanuskodi event definitely produced a 30' surge. The truth is we simply don't know and Earth is a lot more violent than we realize. DAE should show some humility in this regard as well.

While are at it it should also be noted that there are several Indian Ocean volcanic Islands that are prone to instability and collapse generating large Tsunami's as well. The last one we have good evidence for was 4000 years ago in Reunion Island which apparently triggered a 200 foot Tsunami in Australia. The is evidence for a more recent one 800 years ago on the East side of Madagascar.

There are also many many oral traditions of 'kaddalkolava' all the way from Poompuhar to Korkai to Kanyakumari.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 26 Sep 2012 00:03

Theo_Fidel wrote:The DG may not help if the pumps are are knocked out first. While people try to anticipate black swan type events the magnitude is the key variable that can surprise. This is what happened at Fukushima. For instance there is evidence of Cat 5 Cyclones that strike the Palk area. There is record of one in 1408 that struck the Tuticorin area and generated what could have been a 40' storm surge though the written tradition speaks of a 80' wave which is extremely unlikely. Nothing like it has happened for over 500 years, all memory is lost. The 1964 Dhanuskodi event definitely produced a 30' surge. The truth is we simply don't know and Earth is a lot more violent than we realize. DAE should show some humility in this regard as well.

We are really beating around the bush here. The program has been around since 1988. Nothing new there. The real breastbeating started a few years back when the church got guys like Udaykumar to work up the minds of the people. They showed a lot of horror situations to the people to the point that they are unwilling to believe anyone else. This brainwashing is what people are pointing at when they point the govt failure to communicate.

The simplest method would be to prevent the church from interfering in political matters (secular & all). The other is of course to reverse the brainwashing process which is not only difficult but impossible in the presence of the church. In the end, the police has to resort to lathi charge to disperse the crowd. Thankfully, the proportion of christians is low otherwise it would be another political situation where the King has to take orders from the pope.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2012 00:07

The world also changes. Are we still spinning around on a rotary dial phone. BEL still is BTW.

There is a ton more new information around now and Fukushima tells us to be more careful. Nuclear operators have not demonstrated safety. The Earth has very much demonstrated its ability to surprise.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 26 Sep 2012 00:13

Theo_Fidel wrote:The world also changes. Are we still spinning around on a rotary dial phone. BEL still is BTW.

There is a ton more new information around now and Fukushima tells us to be more careful. Nuclear operators have not demonstrated safety. The Earth has very much demonstrated its ability to surprise.

There is no such thing as 100% safety. Coal is also unsafe. Hydro & nuclear require large scale evacuations. The site has been chosen based on several parameters to ensure maximum safety. The reason people are still crying is because they are being under the influence of anti nationals like Udaykumar. We have older power plants in Mumbai (Tarapur & Trombay) in the vicinity of 1.5 crore people which are less safer than the one at Kudankulam. The only 100% safe way is to live in the jungles infested with Maoists miles away from power. Even there they wont be safe from anti national forces. The rest of the country (Tamil Nadu included) wants to get rid of frequent powercuts. The kudankulam plant has the capacity to single handedly increase the power generation by 50% of the country. We know who stands to benefit from this. Lets not be naive.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Sep 2012 05:40

Theo_Fidel wrote:The world also changes. Are we still spinning around on a rotary dial phone. BEL still is BTW.

There is a ton more new information around now and Fukushima tells us to be more careful. Nuclear operators have not demonstrated safety. The Earth has very much demonstrated its ability to surprise.

Again, Fukushima is a 30 year old reactor that withstood a powerful earthquake and tsunami. If anything, its a testament to the safety of nuclear power. What exactly is the real reason behind your aversion towards nuclear power?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 26 Sep 2012 14:11

What is interesting is that Theo_Fidel and other assorted anti nuclear types are happily willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of people that die in coal extraction and pollution caused by burning coal on the altar of black swan events. Heck, we are even being given examples from 4000 years ago and 1408 .... meanwhile people are dying right now with nary a peep from Theo. After all what goes their fathers....

Btw, speaking of humility, Theo, you were on record earlier stating there is no church involvement in the KKNP agitation. Will you accept now that you were wrong and this was and is being led by the church?

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 26 Sep 2012 21:04

Recently got a chance to go inside IGKAR. The canteen where people eat is around 50 metre from the reactor core building(got shocked).There is no fear no radiation or other BS that people are made afraid. The scientist families ,cisf families are all(around 5000 people) are residing there. Sea water(used for cooling) is around 70 to 100 metre from the reactor core building.
During tsumami the water reached quite a distance but nothing happened. It takes 7 secs to bring down the core to heavy water or something. The reactor building can take a hit of a small plane(In case of double hulled it will a full airbus). There is a thriving fish industry around the area. There are birds near the building. The waste water that is thrown out has fish in them,personally saw them.

The trainer who gave ppt told in fukushima diesel gen sets are in basement. So water entered and everything happened. The guy was really pained at the current happening at koodankulam.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2012 21:41

I will repeat that the church is NOT leading the agitation. I have spoken with the few people I know and this is definitely the case. Those who want to believe the GOI chain of bizarre claims , including the random deportation of a German should wonder what happened to all those claims and premeditated illegal raids conducted earlier. A big fat nothing. and the money has also been quietly returned to the churches BTW, without an apology.

While following GOI's shill game folks should also shun the Hazare movement which is also foreign money funded according to GOI.
-----------------------------------------------

Fukushima Gensets were not in a basement. The IGKAR folks are misinformed. Gensets were 10 m ASL and behind a sea wall. The generators were knocked over in the first few seconds due to the force of the water not due to flooding. There is video of this.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 26 Sep 2012 22:14

The Church is not behind is true, I have spoken to people quiet a few times, they say Church is in the forefront of these praying for piece and salvation of the strayed sheep!

Hazare got hazar at least accolades from foreigners and foreign press fresh of the mint.

The German was lucky we don't have Gitmo try in the greatest democracy those antics... Of fishing around nuclear reactors.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 26 Sep 2012 22:26

TEPCO report. What was acceptable previously is no longer acceptable.

In the final analysis, the Fukushima accident does not reveal a previously unknown fatal flaw associated with nuclear power. Rather, it underscores the importance of periodically reevaluating plant safety in light of dynamic external threats and of evolving best practices, as well as the need for an effective regulator to oversee this process.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 26 Sep 2012 22:47

In the final analysis, the ~~Fukushima accident~~ Kudankulam incident does not reveal a previously unknown fatal flaw associated with nuclear power. Rather, it underscores the importance of periodically reevaluating ~~plant~~ cultural safety in light of dynamic external threats and of evolving best practices, as well as the need for an effective regulator to oversee this process.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Sep 2012 23:08

Theo_fidel,

There is no end to how much safety at a nuclear plant can be strengthened. The fact of the matter is nuclear power is critical to 24/7 bulk power generation needed for the re-industrialization of India. Coal supplies will be exhausted within 150 years at the current rate of consumption. However, reprocessing coupled with thorium will allow us to become self sufficient in power generation and give us added flexibility wrt nuclear weapons production and r&d when we validate our TN capability and move on to 4th generation fissionless trigger designs. I understand that you cannot be won over but the fact is nuclear power is set for an expansion in India and will eventually have to form the bulk of energy production. There is presently no other way around it given the current efficiency of renewables and coal depletion.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 26 Sep 2012 23:29

RoyG wrote:...... move on to 4th generation fissionless trigger designs.....

Is this theoretical or has any country already managed to weaponise it ?