India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Sep 2012 01:07

Regarding Tsunami waves around obstacles and islands even big ones like Sri Lanka, this animation does a decent job in illustrating it. Posting it since we discussed it and not to cast aspersions on the merit of the Koodankulam site.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... mplete.gif

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Sep 2012 03:44

It is false hope that Thorium or even U-235 once through (only commercially viable system) can bail us out of our energy starvation. All our attempts to lean on Nuclear power have been futile. Coal is taking up the challenge at a cost to our environment. Our only option is to transition away to renewable difficult to manage sources.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 27 Sep 2012 04:15

Yes Indian scientists can't master FBR technology when France , Germany, USA, Japan, Russia and even the great clone masters PRC could not do it, how can BARC do it.

India is wasting its resources in unclear Nuclear technologies, we should buy Coal from New Castle,
West Virginia , Russia you name it they got it.

BARC does only that much....

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 27 Sep 2012 04:36

Lilo wrote:
RoyG wrote:...... move on to 4th generation fissionless trigger designs.....
Is this theoretical or has any country already managed to weaponise it ?

Research took place in the US. With the NIF operational it may resume. Either way we need a large plutonium and uranium stockpile for our boosted fission weapons and TN weapons after we decide to test.

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is false hope that Thorium or even U-235 once through (only commercially viable system) can bail us out of our energy starvation. All our attempts to lean on Nuclear power have been futile. Coal is taking up the challenge at a cost to our environment. Our only option is to transition away to renewable difficult to manage sources.

Oak Ridge MSR and sodium reactor worked and our prototype fast breeder reactor performed flawlessly which is a critical component to our 3 stage nuclear program. Would you also like to mothball this project? China is going to start a MSR program and the first conference on MSR will take place next year in India. Russia has already fielded lead cooled reactors in their Alfa submarines and its probably one of the safest designs in existence. They have now decided to scale it up for commercial use. Water desalination also makes nuclear an extremely attractive option because of fresh water depletion. Renewable hasn't attained the efficiency necessary to provide 24/7 bulk power generation and you still want to make the transition. I'm not saying that it doesn't have a place in the mix. It will occupy a small percentage.

I don't blame you for being fearful. The media has a history of bombarding people with terrible imagery of fallout from Chernobyl and blowing Fukushima and three mile island way out of proportion. However, you must understand that nuclear power has come a long way and will be the MAIN source of power for the planet. It is inevitable.

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 27 Sep 2012 06:41

That 2nd stage or 3rd stage of nuclear power generation(that uses sodium as coolant) is in India since 27 years and producing 10MW of power for experimental purposes. Now they are expanding it using Bhavini or Kamini reactor(dont know properly) to 500MW(one square reactor structure they were building).
India has all such tech. It doesn't to import it. People are falsely made afraid of foolish things. A nuclear reactor is not going to blow up like a bomb because it uses maximum of 4% enriched uranium.
All nuclear reactor have one association that constantly does auditing every two years. There are other host of safety features.35% reactor cost is the instrumentation cost of reactor. It uses triplicated safety mechanisms. A chernobyl can never happen. In case of violation license are cancelled.
There is no need to be afraid of nuclear tech. We need them for energy them.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 27 Sep 2012 16:41

We are like this onlee.
All morals and principles for others onlee. Not for us.
DAE is accused of cheating, lying , taking the livelihood (

) and not informing people about safety.
But then the same lot said the churches were not behind the agitators. But you see, protests need money and backing and a gullible nut. And it is difficult to co-ordinate the messages when several people are involved.

Churches support ongoing anti-nuclear protests in South India

Churches in India have taken up the cause of fishing villages in southern Tamil Nadu that are awaiting a Supreme Court decision expected this week on the Koodankulam nuclear power plant, scheduled to come online within a few months.

Since August 2011, the church had been the nerve centre of the protests.
"Koodankulam protest is not a Christian issue though many of the people near the nuclear plant are Christians," said Rajkumar.

Of course, the oh-so-predicatable whipping out of minority card!

"Nuclear radiation makes no distinction between Christians or Hindus," Meera Udayakumar, a Hindu and wife of People's Movement Against Nuclear Energy coordinator S. P. Udayakumar, told ENInews.
"All the communities are together in the protest against this nuclear plant," said Meera.
Kochery told ENInews that "Christians are also citizens of this country and they have every right to fight for their rights.

Who to believe? The Church? The posters here on BRF ? The protestors? The german who was deported? Paramatma Shri Udayakumar?

One thing is for sure : DAE is lying. And are ignorant fools. Onlee!
------------

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Sep 2012 16:48

Money not our concern, safety is important, observes SC as it hears petition against Kudankulam project

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 27 Sep 2012 19:21

Austin wrote:Money not our concern, safety is important, observes SC as it hears petition against Kudankulam project

Right.
Trying to attack the plant through the weakest part...environmental clearance. Clever! Everything there is subject to opininon...not facts. L
Let them. Eventually it will spiral down to the the main plant safety!

Whom are the honorable judges of the SC going to bring in for the giving a report on safety then?
What other independent bodies does India have?
Maybe other international/national bodies ...he he he gooood luck with getting a NOC from Russians on that!
Monkeys!
The way it stands ...everyone should fall at the lotus feet of DAE.

Saranagatham!

DAE has acknowledged that it is trying to push for a independent body. Good on them. But while DAE might do its part quickly, the babus might sit on it and play the veena!

The circus continues!
The magnanimity, patience of this nation is misused time and again! Nowhere else in the planet will so ignorant,so foolish a lot be allowed to get away with so much!

Those who have issues with nuclear power should ensure that no part of their electricity is tainted with it. They should voluntarily disconnect themselves from the grid if any part of it comes from a reactor! Show some solidarity with them brothers in Idinjikarai will ya! And grow a backbone!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Sep 2012 20:21

Although standard safety steps are required for a Nucler Power plant.

But to take SC observation, one can argue Automobiles are Inherently dangerous, Electricity is inherently dangerous. Why can't the honourable Judges his agree the they and thier family will have nothing to do with electricity including that no hospital should operate with electricity when it comes to an operation or child birth in thier family.

Why don't Churches who receive funding from Scandinavia and USA, ask the Western Europe and USA to shut down all Nuclear plants as an example, let USA, France shut down thier Nuke plants indefinately and I will join thier Campaign.

Nuke powered Submarines and Nuke powered carriers should be immediately decommissioned.

Hypocrites... Look closely and these SC judges will have family in Lutyens or in Australia, North America or Western Europe.

To keep India backward suits just fine.

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Sep 2012 00:06

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is false hope that Thorium or even U-235 once through (only commercially viable system) can bail us out of our energy starvation. All our attempts to lean on Nuclear power have been futile. Coal is taking up the challenge at a cost to our environment. Our only option is to transition away to renewable difficult to manage sources.

Theo, you do excellent job in other threads, particularly the economy thread.

With regards to nuclear powered, you are blinkered and follow the frocks lock, stock and barrel. Why? <edited out a construed personal attack>

You see, FBR is a technology that has been already mastered by Indians. As has been demonstrated by the fast breeder test reactor and the upcoming PFBR at Kalpakkam. India needs more of this and less of Coal burning. You know why FBR is being stymed again and again? First of all it will make India truly energy independent and second it will put big businesses like Reliance ("congress to apni hi dukan hai") out of business atleast in the domestic sector.

I know you like renewables, but which renewables? Solar Cells? Of course Hydro-power is also renewable but large scale projects displace people and are controversial as one ArunDhoti demonstrated. Wind power? Do you know that the blades of the modern day windmills cut the very wild birds down to size and is now considered an environmental disaster! Bio-fuel? Yes that is still work in progress with some companies making about 7000 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. That is a small drop compared to the fuel used everyday. Maybe toddy driven scooters have a better prospect.

One way to reduce air pollution in India is to introduce electric vehicles all around, all sorts of electric vehicles should be encouraged. For heavy vehicles like trucks and buses etc., diesel-hybrids are a good option., the rest can be plug in electricity charged vehicles. Less dependency on Shoddy Barbaria, real savings and all round gain. But where is the electricity going to come from? Coal?

For India, base load can come from only Nuclear power and the west knows this and their gadflies in frocks are getting ampe'd up to stop projects like kundankulam.

Regarding black swan event., somebody said that if the civilian nuclear power plants can be nuked' and that will be a black swan event. Something interesting, if a megaton nuke is exploding in my backyard, the nuclear power plant going radioactive is least of my concern!

Anyway, after several iterations., there are people who do not want to be convinced inspite of the data and evidence present and all kinds of black swans are pulled out of the hat (or the frock).

The fact is PMANE and their cohorts are traitors, particularly they brought in a religious angle to a safety debate. I would not be surprised that the frocks from kudankulam will be found drug running as well - all in the name of god.

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Sep 2012 00:12

Aditya_V wrote:To keep India backward suits just fine.

I would still give them some benefit of doubt and let this charade play out. SC has not stayed commissioning of Kundankulam., it has only said that safety issues need to be looked at and hence will take up the case to look at safety issues.

At the same time, there is no CT to "keep India backward"., it is that several sections, sectors and businesses will be "financially challenged" and they are spending finances to keep themselves relevant - progress of India be damned.

Added later: If MoEF has been a laggard, it has to be pulled up. Due process for safety has to be followed. Also, note that DDM twists messages around to give new "meanings"! This is definitely helped by esteemed judges having the disease of verbal diarrhea.

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Sep 2012 00:26

Neela wrote:
Trying to attack the plant through the weakest part...environmental clearance. Clever! Everything there is subject to opininon...not facts. L
Let them. Eventually it will spiral down to the the main plant safety!

Or it may come down to "due process"., that is the entire fate of kundankulam may end up hanging based on a technicality. And here are some gems.,

1. Environment clearance is not valid since the cooling water is being drawn from sea instead of a dam.
2. The exhaust water is 2c hotter than the earlier cleared 5c
3. The clearance is valid only for 5 years. And a new clearance should go through a fresh EIC process where new inputs should be taken into account.

Wow, the frocks have come to this level!

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 28 Sep 2012 00:45

<del>

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2012 01:08

Here is your black swan:

Eqks suggest new tectonic plate is forming

If you look at the map if the Inod-Australian plate breaks at the junction of the Somali plate and extends to the Sunda plate then there is potential for tsunamis that affect India.

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Sep 2012 01:13

Lilo wrote:Dishaji,
Just because you are anonymous doesnt mean you can pout trash like that. edit and apologize ?

Liloji, what are you actually thinking reading that?

Though the fact remains that because of actions of PMANE, innocent lives were lost. Any apologies on that from anyone?

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Sep 2012 01:17

ramana wrote:Here is your black swan:

Eqks suggest new tectonic plate is forming

If you look at the map if the Inod-Australian plate breaks at the junction of the Somali plate and extends to the Sunda plate then there is potential for tsunamis that affect India.

Sir, that is a slide-slip earthquake event. Slide-slips do not cause Tsunamis. Neither the above will break the indo-australian plate or the indian plate in the next few thousand years. So what is the black swan about it? A plate breakup or a tsunami-not-happened event inspite of a greater than richter 8 event?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2012 01:19

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 02:47

It is premature to say the 8.7 April quake is only a strike slip fault without examining the sea floor. The S-waves indicate there was at least some vertical movement. Just to point out that this would be the largest strike slip earthquake EVER by about 30 times in terms of energy released!! The data is still incomplete. The mechanism by which rock fracture strength alone could sustain such stress is unclear. Also to be noted is the great depth of the epicenter at 32 km below the oceanic crust which is typically 7-10 km deep. Strike slip earth quakes are usually not mantle events.

It is also wrong to say strike slip can not produce Tsunami. One of the largest recorded Tsunamis occurred in Latuya bay 1958 IIRC when a strike slip earthquake triggered a landslide that dropped into the water. The Tsunami was about 1,500 feet high. Similarly a strike slip earthquake in New Guinea produced an underwater landslide that also caused a Tsunami.

There has been speculation about the Sri lankan thrust fault all the way from the 1960 when benthic measurements showed a series of ridges developing in the abyssal plains. Some of the ridges rise 800+ feet above the surrounding plane which is flat as a dosa.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 28 Sep 2012 03:03

It could be simple to avoid effects of a tsunami. This if a little of perimeter area around the plant and about connected infra, such as power line support towers etc., is not used at all. A simple way is to saturate perimeter volume of certain width & height with sandbags fastened to the ground in some ways such as bamboo or steel rods, but not plain sand that could be just washed away by an initial wave. All the incoming waves then could find the volume already full. Not sure if this could be used inside at doors but sand is not luxurious. As also some kind of constructs such as this, to reduce momentum and decrease erosion from waves hitting the walls. So it gives a perimeter buffer on land and from the sea.

2 cents.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 03:18

Better idea would be to move inland. Stay away from ocean, esp. for new plants.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Sep 2012 03:24

The Hon.SC is now bringing itself into ridicule,as life on earth in any form is dangerous! Whether it is adulteration of foodstuffs,breathing polluted air,drinking toxic water,crossing a road whether there are pedestrian crossings or not (in India),imbibing fake hootch,death awaits you around every corner each day especially in India.By this yardstick the entire nation's N-plants must be immediately shut down for fear of the "safety" issue.I am sure that a stoppage of electricity to the premises of the Hon. SC,where they can go back to using punkas and candles --lawyers will surely love this,throwing "bell,book and candle" in their arguments,on this and other issues regarding development in any form and producing energy in any form.After all,aren't hydel plants and large dams environmentally catastrophic too?

What the GOI should've also done was to have listed out to the court the massive safety measures taken in the aftermath of Fukushima and explain through eminent experts from the N-industry how the arguments of the quisling tribes are specious and are actually aimed at sabotaging our nation's N-industry.The IB earlier said that colossal sums of money were being spent by western nations to sabotage KKM.The insidious abuse of the "church" to find footsoldiers for the "cause" ,should be treated as an act of treason and notwithstanding whatever the Hon. SC eventually decides,the nation's interests comes first and the quislings and agent provocateurs should be exposed and given the max. punishment under the law.Let us see how the "churches' " flock go back to living in the stone age and the age of firewood and oil lamps.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 03:31

disha wrote:You see, FBR is a technology that has been already mastered by Indians. As has been demonstrated by the fast breeder test reactor and the upcoming PFBR at Kalpakkam. India needs more of this and less of Coal burning. You know why FBR is being stymed again and again? First of all it will make India truly energy independent and second it will put big businesses like Reliance ("congress to apni hi dukan hai") out of business atleast in the domestic sector.

Ah! Yes the conspiracy theory. Everyone else is in on it.

DAE has not leveled with the nation on the status of its FBR program.

We went over this for pages and pages earlier. What came out is that it is simple economically infeasible right now. The molten sodium, requirement to keep it molten, low real world breeding efficiency which is often negative and scaling issues meant that even the PFBR is just that a proto-type that has been under development for 25 years.

What should also be remembered is that all these escape routes have been tried by multiple other teams of smart people world wide. The Sodium cooled FBR option alone has been tried by 22 separate teams world wide by my very cursory count. All gave it up as economically and practically infeasible at scale and performance in the real world was deeply disappointing. DAE is not just going against the limits of human ability but also history and real world physics.

The truth is simple. The only economically feasible operations is once through U-235, mostly enriched. The world does not have enough of this material to even lean on it for even 5% of energy. Some form of breeder may work but don't hold your breath. They have been trying for 80+ years and performance has always been deeply disappointing.

India has plenty of sun and the cost barriers to using it have dropped to some mix of PV+CSP+CSP(storage)+Wind+BIOfuel+pumped storage is the only mathematically feasible future.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 28 Sep 2012 03:59

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is premature to say the 8.7 April quake is only a strike slip fault without examining the sea floor. The S-waves indicate there was at least some vertical movement. Just to point out that this would be the largest strike slip earthquake EVER by about 30 times in terms of energy released!! The data is still incomplete. The mechanism by which rock fracture strength alone could sustain such stress is unclear. Also to be noted is the great depth of the epicenter at 32 km below the oceanic crust which is typically 7-10 km deep. Strike slip earth quakes are usually not mantle events.

It is also wrong to say strike slip can not produce Tsunami. One of the largest recorded Tsunamis occurred in Latuya bay 1958 IIRC when a strike slip earthquake triggered a landslide that dropped into the water. The Tsunami was about 1,500 feet high. Similarly a strike slip earthquake in New Guinea produced an underwater landslide that also caused a Tsunami.

There has been speculation about the Sri lankan thrust fault all the way from the 1960 when benthic measurements showed a series of ridges developing in the abyssal plains. Some of the ridges rise 800+ feet above the surrounding plane which is flat as a dosa.(what the heck are you talking about in this para ??)

Theo ji,
the way you put it ignoring probabilities, a layperson will conclude that transverse faulting will also result in a tsunami - this conclusion is obviously wrong.

Plate boundary is categorized by its "major characteristic" whether it is a subducting plate boundary or a transverse boundary or a fusing boundary or it has become inactive.
95% of the boundaries are of former 2 types. In transverse faulting the movement is never a simple slide but is jagged slide (each slippage gives out an energy pulse felt as an earthquake - best example is the san andreas fault) but there is little vertical "throw" of either plates in transverse faulting so tsunamis are not produced. All those examples of tsunamis from transverse faults you mentioned are from the secondary effects of faulting (landslides) and are no way applicable to the indian ocean basin. Mass movement in Latuya was from icesheet and rock breaking off into a narrow bay - why didnt you mention this?? yet you mentioned the height of the latuya wave. If one dumps sand into a sufficiently thin and deep inlet from one side one can produce a local wave of greater height than latuya . So your comparision with latuya is needless scaremongering on a nonissue - which is probability of tsunamis from a transverse fault. Regarding S-waves in recent transverse faulting in indian ocean - my question is so what ?? - all seismic events have P and S waves - what matters is their intensity - which in this case was not sufficient to set off a tsunami even post a >8.5 scale event - its only because it was a transverse fault.

Anyway instead of proferring solutions this scaremongering on coastal nuclear installations from tsunami is doing no good to anyone, even to your self. If the tsunami threat is really so high as you are proclaiming then whole of coastal china, and coastal india had to pack up and move into high plateau - without any regard to presence or absence of nuclear installations on the coast.

Simple facts -
1)Kundankulam is sheltered by SL in the refractory zone of the probable tsunami from the ring of fire. so the wave's power will be quite diminished
2)In light of recent Japan crisis the DAE has taken unprecedented measures of safety because of spotlight from public.
3) In indian case (being in tropical zone) there exist secondary safety measures one can deploy which can considerably reduce the strength of a tsunami - like growing mangroves, promoting barrier reef formation (by dumping wrecks) etc.

If you are really concerned with the safely of the coastal population of kundankulam i suggest you to get a group together and plant mangroves along the coast - that will save more lives (atleast by a factor of 100 more) than the presence or absence of a nuclear plant and the quality of safety measures deployed in it - incase of a Blackswan tsunami from Antarctica.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 05:13

Slide-slips do not cause Tsunamis.

This is the comment I was responding to. Please read before responding.

Not all thrust faults produce earthquakes either. There is zero proof it is pre-existing transverse fault. It is a hypothesis at present. Rock from a mountain is not the only land slip option there is. Geology is more complicated. I hope you understand that it is not a functional transverse fault at present. The energy released was NOT due to the transverse fault itself.

People can move. Nuclear plants can not. For 100+ years per present plans. Keep in mind the Indonesia type event happens every 300 years, which not dissimilar to the life of a nuclear plant. And It is not the only thrust fault even in the Indian ocean.

BTW Please understand that there was a Tsunami. It was recorded at 22 inches at some spots on Banda Aceh. IIRC 12 inches on Thailand. It is incorrect to say there was no Tsunami. The paper does not say this.

Kudankulam is sheltered from East side but it is not clear this alone is sufficient. About 200 people died in Kerala for instance due to the 2004 Tsunami. Depending on undersea topography some areas saw about 20'-30' of sea rise. Effect is not fully studied or understood. It is not right to say that it is sheltered without doing proper model based testing.

Mangroves do not grow in Kudankulm. Please visit the area before making such assumptions.

DAE has NOT taken unprecedented safety measures. What it did was conduct an relatively cursory internal review for PMO. Same people who planned the plants then said everything is safe only. It is true that even this level of scrutiny was unprecedented.

The source of angst is lack of benefit for locals compared to risks being taken in their backyard without adequate consensus. Kalam had the right idea but GOI/DAE is too hard headed to listen. They are losing the nuclear consensus. Opposition will persist. Local have the time to do this indefinitely.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 28 Sep 2012 09:36

remember

Doris Day wrote:Que Sera, Sera,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Que Sera, Sera
What will be, will be.

There are umpteen number of events that can happen just watch Smithosian channel, a meteorite might hit the earth, a asteroid might collide with earth.....
out of the blue a new tectonic plate might shiver does that mean we stop in our tracks and do nothing?

Even in the US the New Madrid fault extends from Missouri all the way to Toronto, the San Andreas fault is active and yet there are all kinds of plants some man made some by nature do they stop building there no

With the current knowledge have we made engineering provisions to mitigate or at least minimize the adverse event thats all it counts.
Remember Bhabha quote
"No power is costlier than no power"

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 28 Sep 2012 20:40

pentaiah, well said. We can discuss all potential threats man made and natural, but we should never stop the onward march.

Better idea would be to move inland. Stay away from ocean, esp. for new plants.

Theo, would you still object if KK were hypothetically moved further north as you suggest. To me it looks like you do not like nuclear energy. Lot of the economic arguments that one sees is just a result of bad accounting of the various costs which are not taken account of. Nature is the most economical of all mechanisms and we see nuclear energy everywhere in nature. Man has just begun to harness it, and it will be a while before we catch up with nature.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 28 Sep 2012 20:57

Bade,

Theo will not change his mind on nuclear which is fine. We should instead focus on how to implement the three stage program and whether any additional shortcuts can be taken to maximize our nuclear generation footprint. What is the status of our uranium reserves and exploration?

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 28 Sep 2012 21:22

It is counterproductive moving it inland. This one step alone will overnight double the area to be evacuated. The advantage of having it near the sea is that only those who live on the sea coast will need to move away. Any damage will be reduced by half because of half the affected area will be marine.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 28 Sep 2012 23:27

Also you need abundant water supply so very rarely you see a nuke plant away from sea.
The exceptions could be Manroe plant in Michigan and Ohio but has Great Lakes water.

Niantic plant on Atlantic coast

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 23:30

Bade,

Opposition is to present set up. GOI should not be in charge of nuclear energy. It can't even run a post office properly. Even Kudankulam is being done on the cheap without adhering to modern western standards. If Kudankulam conformed prices/true cost would go up dramatically.
------------------------------------------------

Yes folks on the sea shore are apparently less important. And you know no one depends on the ocean for lively hood. 'Affecting' the ocean is apparently not a problem.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 28 Sep 2012 23:36

One more time repeat slowly

"No power is costlier than no power"

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 28 Sep 2012 23:38

Yes folks on the sea shore are apparently less important. And you know no one depends on the ocean for lively hood. 'Affecting' the ocean is apparently not a problem.

So now we have to take care of the fishes as well. Well lets forget the mammoth increase in electrical capacity it will bring which will spawn multiple industries & jobs along with growth.

Don't you advocate in every other thread that we must improve our std of living?

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 28 Sep 2012 23:43

If so much concern for health of sea you see first focus on changing the Diesel engine air and oil filter of all trucks/lorries plying on Indian roads the soot and smoke they spew out into air. Just for sample drive behind one such with your car windows down or on a scooter 4 stroke please

( not to mention, the two stroke autos with oil consuming/ burning and belching blue smoke giving you instamatic sore throat , allergies and asthma ) not but not least we smell fish in that polluted atmosphere

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Sep 2012 23:51

I guess we know what the locals think of these 'opportunities'. They don't have much but it is obvious now that they will have even less. We are not Panda.

Keep some perspective. Just this year Vallur coal added 1,200 MW, more than TN's share from Kudankulam. Over the next 5 years Thoothukudi alone is adding 3,600MW in coal. It was a big deal at one time, now it is just a drop in the bucket. In any case it still has not powered up yet. One needs to see what sort of performance it puts out.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 28 Sep 2012 23:58

So the pollution from coal is not a problem but a non existent radiation threat has forced the PM to issue statements. Unlike nuclear, coal does not need a natural disaster to wreak havoc.

Obviously the people have not been informed about the facts otherwise Bombay with multiple reactors would have been rendered unsafe long ago. They probably believe that the reactors will make them sterile and kill their livelihood. Has the Udaykumar talked about the benefits of nuclear power to the villagers?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 29 Sep 2012 01:03

Theo_Fidel wrote: Opposition is to present set up. GOI should not be in charge of nuclear energy. It can't even run a post office properly. Even Kudankulam is being done on the cheap without adhering to modern western standards. If Kudankulam conformed prices/true cost would go up dramatically.
------------------------------------------------

Yes folks on the sea shore are apparently less important. And you know no one depends on the ocean for lively hood. 'Affecting' the ocean is apparently not a problem.

It is so cute when Theoji brings up the 'livelyhood' of seashore folks. They are able to survive months-long protests without any work and earning their two meals.

Perhaps the Christ abandoned KK protests like Allah did to Pakistan.

The slavery towards anything-WEST is unavoidable, I guess.

Shame on you Indians for being so inhumane, cheap and lack-of-standards

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 29 Sep 2012 01:07

^^^

RamaY, you pinpointed the threat of Christianity to India. It needs to look up to the west for guidance and requires us to adopt their ways. Just like Islam looks upto the Middle East. Both of them are dangerous to India and the Kudankulam protest really underlined it.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 29 Sep 2012 01:23

RamaY,

What kind of nonsense is this. Nuclear technology itself is Western technology. In fact the entire Nuclear plant is 90% west manufactured technology. For that matter modern Hinduism has almost appropriated all the aspects of Jesus freaks and Islam freaks to now create Hindu freaks. You yourself have repeatedly denigrated modern India and wished for its end how can you now pretend to be its defender. One or the other boss, if you don't want pain in your crotch from straddling the fence....

As you usual we are now OT on this thread as well.....

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 29 Sep 2012 01:30

The USSR was the first one to use nuclear power for powering an electricity grid. We already have a Russian plant in Kudankulam. So if you are implying that the west is always ahead, there is always the Bhopal tragedy to scare people about the western technology. I think on the propoganda front, Russia has a lead, Chernobyl notwithstanding. West is good, east is bad is getting old now.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 29 Sep 2012 02:07

Theo_Fidel wrote:RamaY,

What kind of nonsense is this. Nuclear technology itself is Western technology. In fact the entire Nuclear plant is 90% west manufactured technology. For that matter modern Hinduism has almost appropriated all the aspects of Jesus freaks and Islam freaks to now create Hindu freaks. You yourself have repeatedly denigrated modern India and wished for its end how can you now pretend to be its defender. One or the other boss, if you don't want pain in your crotch from straddling the fence....

As you usual we are now OT on this thread as well.....

OT b/c we keep going back to comparing nuclear with other fuel sources and keep rebutting your negativism towards it. Folks, please move on and leave western interpretations of dharmic thought out of this. If anybody would like to post on the protest it may be better to do so in the internal security thread. Not much more can be said on safety. At this point you either believe it is or isn't.