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The problem is not the roads or infrastructure. Its the viewpoint. I am not deluded enough to think that my posts on BRF are going to change your thought process. You are still enamored by the US of A and see things from a western point of view.
Its very convenient to blame people for they are not going to retaliate. Its a tad bit difficult to put yourself in their shoes to see and understand why they do what they do. Once you make an attempt to the hard work, you will understand it better. The people are poor & may not have insurance. Yet they drive in a particular way since they are in control. Most of the deaths & accidents can be avoided by having more crossways & clearly marked roads. Do you think they are stupid to put their own lives at risk?
No, that particular remark was specifically directed at you. No need to bring fellow Indians into it.
I've repeatedly pointed out how bad driving affects everyone, poor people the most and the "elites" you hate so much the least -- clearly enough for most rational readers. Please feel free to keep railing about how this represents Westernized thinking etc, but those statements are unsupported and nonsensical (and that's putting it politely).
Abhijeet wrote:No, that particular remark was specifically directed at you. No need to bring fellow Indians into it.
I know that. Its directed at Indians in general whom you think uneducated & unruly. Thats why I use words like MUTU & ABCD
Abhijeet wrote:I've repeatedly pointed out how bad driving affects everyone, poor people the most and the "elites" you hate so much the least -- clearly enough for most rational readers. Please feel free to keep railing about how this represents Westernized thinking etc, but those statements are unsupported and nonsensical (and that's putting it politely).
I am no elite. So don't think that I am in a position to influence what other Indians think. It is just that the inability to understand others' motives for their actions tend to increase when their proximity is reduced. That is why this road attitude is more seen in NRIs while Indians don't bat an eyelid for the same situation. Can you explain why?
nakul wrote: It is just that the inability to understand others' motives for their actions tend to increase when their proximity is reduced.
When someone's reckless actions are hurting/killing innocent people, I do not need to "understand their motives". They need to re-evaluate their actions.
When someone's reckless actions are hurting/killing innocent people, I do not need to "understand their motives". They need to re-evaluate their actions.
You are right. But why do they do it? Without answering the question, you can't rectify it. They are not going to do it on their own. I see a general disdain saying that uneducated people do it. But even the educated wallas in cities follow similar styles. Will they re-evaluate their actions on their own?
Dileep wrote:Right now, the road carries more traffic than a 6 lane city road in Unkilland.
I don't know about the rest, but this is not strictly comparable. The per hour PCU calcs for a 6 lane highway (3 each way) is now on the order of 2,800 units per lane per hour. Most studies I have seen indicate numbers of 600-800 pcu's for India with a total passenger through-put of less than 1/3 that for equivalent Western roads. This is for private vehicles. For instance in Chennai cars carry 3% of passenger trips on the typical road. Auto's carry another 3%. Fully 30% are by bus, another 30% walk, 15%-20% are by train and the rest by bicycle/two wheeler. This is the true tragedy of India that we are inefficient in using the space we do have despite the chaos we cause. Our traffic is is slow because people are chaotic and people are chaotic because traffic is slow. Catch-22.
When you see cars/autos on Indian roads they often carry less than 5% of the traffic on the road yet occupy a large majority of the space.
BTW Indian's are uneducated and unruly. It is simple reality. We don't know how to drive... ...Yet.
Dileep wrote:Right now, the road carries more traffic than a 6 lane city road in Unkilland.
BTW Indian's are uneducated and unruly. It is simple reality. We don't know how to drive... ...Yet.
A few bafoons get on high horses and drive like jokers = Each and every Indian is like that... haha great logic, Theo,great logic.... and who are you a martian??
The great American drivers do not find it easy to drive on indian roads. Heck, they can't even cross our roads. Instead of questioning their incompetence, we have certain people who want to dumb down Indians to their standards. How many of them can anticipate animals on roads and drive around safely? This is a reality in India and Indian drivers are trained for that, not for 100+ kmph autobahns which can be driven in cruise control mode.
The great American drivers do not find it easy to drive on indian roads. Heck, they can't even cross our roads. Instead of questioning their incompetence, we have certain people who want to dumb down Indians to their standards. How many of them can anticipate animals on roads and drive around safely? This is a reality in India and Indian drivers are trained for that, not for 100+ kmph autobahns which can be driven in cruise control mode.
First of all most of these hi-fi Indian mockers don't live in India,so you can assume that at best they only have vague memories of things 10-20 years ago. Even if they do come here, the problem is not India but the mentality of these "brown-whites" who despise anything that belongs to the country and it is not a bloody joke to poke fun at some "assumed" notions that have either changed completely now,or never existed in the first place.. I wonder what these people expect to see here where the population, road density,number of vehicles are significantly different than in the heavenly land these angels descend from. If you don't like something, don't do it!! If you are so scared of Indian roads, let some uneducated and unruly Indian drive the road for you. It seems the sole objective of these wannabe white people is to state again and again : Hey!! look at you poor , "uneducated" and unruly Indians...look at your supposedly pathetic lives, and then look at me...With such people representing us abroad, is it any wonder that our image is dillusioned/wrong....
Who gives you the right to speak for all Indian drivers or citizens ? It is just your opinion just as much as it is of anyone who lives outside of India and can have his or her opinion.
During my visits to India, I have heard similar negative views from enough people who have lived their whole lives in India and some having even driven in India.They have the same opinions on Indian driving habits and road conditions as any NRI or foreigner would. This notion that the view is patently due to outsiders with their autobahn driving expectation, is another one of those cuckoo land theories that someone with deep image anxiety worries about, a "log kya kaheinge" syndrome.
In a little less than two decades, Tamil Nadu’s vehicle population has increased by 730%.
With several thousand vehicles being added per day, the number of vehicles in the state is inching towards 1.75 crore. Chennai city is groaning under the burden of about 37 lakh vehicles, accounting for nearly 25 percent of the total vehicles in the state.
The number of vehicles has been particularly growing over the past couple of years and crossed a whopping 1.58 crore in August 2012. At the same time, the number of vehicles in Chennai has crossed 36.75 lakhs, adding stress to the already congested roads.
These startling facts also highlight the minimal increase in public transport network over the years, which are forcing the general public to go in for private vehicles.
Of the 1.58 crore vehicles in the state as on Aug.1, 2012, as many as 1.30 crore are two wheelers, accounting for a whopping 85 percent. The number was just 1.26 crore last April. In Chennai, two-wheeler population (1,30,38,498) accounts for 78 percent, while cars are just 14 percent).However, simultaneously, the registration of new cars has also kept pace with two wheelers.
The number of cars in the state, which was 2.46 lakhs in 1993 has escalated to 4.83 lakh in 2002 and has shot up to 13.83 lakh (13.41 lakh in April) registering over 460-percentage growth in two decades.
According an urban planner, the percentage of trips by bus per day in the city was 42 in 1970, which has considerably decreased to 25 in 2010 while two wheeler trips increased to 27 from 2 during the corresponding period, besides cars trips that have increased from 3 to 6.5 is a clear sign of decreasing patronage of public transportation.
Theo_Fidel wrote:{quote="Dileep"}Right now, the road carries more traffic than a 6 lane city road in Unkilland.
BTW Indian's are uneducated and unruly. It is simple reality. We don't know how to drive... ...Yet.
A few bafoons get on high horses and drive like jokers = Each and every Indian is like that... haha great logic, Theo,great logic.... and who are you a martian??[/quote]
Theo_Fidel wrote:According an urban planner, the percentage of trips by bus per day in the city was 42 in 1970, which has considerably decreased to 25 in 2010 while two wheeler trips increased to 27 from 2 during the corresponding period, besides cars trips that have increased from 3 to 6.5 is a clear sign of decreasing patronage of public transportation.
What is the context of decreasing patronage of public transportation?
The buses are all full in Chennai right from 7 am to 11 am and from 3 pm to 10 pm.
It is true that bus round trip time has reduced due to traffic conditions.
Planners should identify major traffic lines and mark bus lanes and ban cars on that lane, and increase bus frequency so throughput is high.
bus lanes are only feasible in greenfield new sectors like noida or chandigarh if space kept from day1, or in MUTU areas like lutyens delhi.
our developmental economists are fond of travelling on south-south junkets to places like brasilia or someplaces in uruguay or argentina and coming back with such ideas without knowing in what context they were built there.
Saar, lets take a Tambaram to OMR route. Tambaram is becoming a huge residential area and huge number of people travel to OMR via the Grand Southern Trunk road, the SH 109/Pallikaranai road and then on to OMR. Currently the car and bike traffic is bumper to bumper on peak times. All through, there is at least 2 lanes. I think we can make a lane as bus lane, put in a mix of buses (cheap fare, all stops and medium fare limited stops, and express volvo a/c buses) and ban cars. There are several such limited lines that can be made bus only.
I know a guy who travels 2 hrs each way every day. It just beats me that we are killing our people this manner.
Bade wrote:Who gives you the right to speak for all Indian drivers or citizens ? It is just your opinion just as much as it is of anyone who lives outside of India and can have his or her opinion.
During my visits to India, I have heard similar negative views from enough people who have lived their whole lives in India and some having even driven in India.They have the same opinions on Indian driving habits and road conditions as any NRI or foreigner would. This notion that the view is patently due to outsiders with their autobahn driving expectation, is another one of those cuckoo land theories that someone with deep image anxiety worries about, a "log kya kaheinge" syndrome.
These people who comment on the road situation never fail to grasp their ability to adapt. The onus is always on others - the road, the people, the govt. If there is one thing they fail to comprehend, it is themselves. Did they not were a part of it at one time? Aren't they failing to adapt to the new situation? They don't find a problem in adapting to the new lifestyle in their adopted countries. But when they come back to desh, the people consider their compatriots below them and find it demeaning to adapt back to their original lifestyle as they consider themselves a cut above the rest. A foreign returned is considered to be a batch of honor and they consider it their duty to preserve it by cursing the natives.
Again, unsupported BS that concentrates on shooting the messenger. The unacceptably high accident rate clearly proves that people on the road aren't as "adapted" as you think they are.
Making do with what we have, is no reason to continue doing that.
People 'adapt' to 14 hr power cuts, poor quality water supplied sporadically etc. Does not mean that should be how it is and we should not talk about why it is bad and how it can be improved (by god forbid looking at systems in other countries).
People adapt to having no good public toilets, but not relieving at all, or relieving on the streets. What is there to be celebrated in that as some pinnacle of darwinian achievement...
Abhijeet wrote:Again, unsupported BS that concentrates on shooting the messenger. The unacceptably high accident rate clearly proves that people on the road aren't as "adapted" as you think they are.
Abhijeet wrote:Please find out yourself. Most people on this thread have a basic idea, and rhetorical questions do not advance the debate.
You just have a floaty idea that India is backward & America is forward. I know that comparing apples & oranges will not help. That is why the rhetorical question.
Gus wrote:Making do with what we have, is no reason to continue doing that.
People 'adapt' to 14 hr power cuts, poor quality water supplied sporadically etc. Does not mean that should be how it is and we should not talk about why it is bad and how it can be improved (by god forbid looking at systems in other countries).
People adapt to having no good public toilets, but not relieving at all, or relieving on the streets. What is there to be celebrated in that as some pinnacle of darwinian achievement...
You remind me of Oprah Winfrey in a slum in Mumbai. They were quite happy but she was constantly trying to give them reasons to feel unhappy while ignoring the kids' happiness. SOmetimes I wonder whether drain inspectors have been replaced by road inspectors.
Again, unsupported BS. Do you actually have anything to contribute other than accusing everyone else of being this and that? So far we have: MUTU, ABCD, US-returned, "enamored" of the US, Oprah Winfrey, drain inspectors -- and that's just from your last few posts.
Here's a tip: do some research, back up your statements with facts ("here is why I think things in India are fine: fact A, B, C"), and stop the ad hominems. You will be taken more seriously. You've already received much more attention than your content-free posts warrant.
I see. You have been giving me all that attention. Perhaps you can also provide facts. Not some random A,B,C but considering the socio-economic situation in India. Thanks in advance.
nakul, to be charitable, you sir need to relax, meditate and think a bit more. I have family members who have died on Indian roads, a few others miraculously escaped death including my sister, all this for no fault of theirs. They were all pedestrians not even doing the chicken crossing that many still do in India inviting death. You really have no clue as to what you are talking about. As an Indian I will keep complaining about the general woeful conditions for all, be it drivers, pedestrians or autobahn NRIs. That is my fundamental right, you cannot do zilch about it but post more nonsense and name calling.
Bade wrote:nakul, to be charitable, you sir need to relax, meditate and think a bit more. I have family members who have died on Indian roads, a few others miraculously escaped death including my sister, all this for no fault of theirs. They were all pedestrians not even doing the chicken crossing that many still do in India inviting death. You really have no clue as to what you are talking about. As an Indian I will keep complaining about the general woeful conditions for all, be it drivers, pedestrians or autobahn NRIs. That is my fundamental right, you cannot do zilch about it but post more nonsense and name calling.
Thank you for the concern. But we have seen an entire generation of MUTUs & brown sahibs who have tried to show India in poor light by comparing it to the west and making sure that they are not to be blamed. They simply talk and consider themselves apart from Indians. I am sure they consider themselves educated but call others uneducated and unruly. As I have said before, these people identify themselves with the west. They treat others as inferior. They look upto the west and seek guidance. Consider that our PM is in the same mold, yatha raja tatha praja.
Instead of cribbing about brown people, it would be perhaps better if they find solutions. But they don't want to be the ones to solve the problems. They are the ones who run from problems. That is why you will see these people jumping from country to country since their ability to deal with problems is very low. They should understand the situation before suggesting that people are uneducated, as if they are not one of them
Bangladesh 6,300
Pakistan 2,300
Vietnam 1238
India 315
Sri Lanka 221
Turkey 97
Malaysia 36
S.Korea 29
Italy 12 (yes claimed chaotic and all)
Japan 6.8
That might be the exact order in terms of years of education.
It is pretty clear it will take more that the average of 5-6 years education folks in India are getting right now to change this.
Japan average years of education is now exceeding 14 years. SK is only now getting to 12.
You can see the difference between the two.
My estimate is that India is increasing its average 'years of education' by about 2 years every decade. So it might be another 20 years before the carnage starts coming down.
------------------------------------
Bade saar,
A fool knows himself to be wise, a wise man knows himself to be fool.
ducking now....
Theo_Fidel wrote:
A fool knows himself to be wise, a wise man knows himself to be fool.
ducking now....
Why is Theo saar calling himself a fool
Lahori logic at its best saar. The top countries on that list are the worst in infrastructure. Formal education has nothing to do with roads. The case is same with yindians. They go abroad & follow rules to the T. No spitting on roads, no jaywalking, no garbage strewn around, follow all traffic rules. The enlightened ones come back and do the same nautanki of being well off while doing the same as others.
Why is the media here so negative?
Why are we in India so embarrassed to recognize our own strengths, our
Achievements? We are such a great nation. We have so many amazing success
Stories but we refuse to acknowledge them. Why?
We are the first in milk production.
We are number one in Remote sensing satellites.
We are the second largest producer of wheat.
We are the second largest producer of rice.
Look at Dr. Sudarshan , he has transferred the tribal village into a
Self-sustaining, self-driving unit. There are millions of such achievements
But our media is only obsessed in the bad news and failures and disasters. I
Was in Tel Aviv once and I was reading the Israeli newspaper. It was the
Day
After a lot of attacks and bombardments and deaths had taken place. The
Hamas had struck. But the front page of the newspaper had the picture of a
Jewish gentleman who in five years had transformed his desert into an orchid
And a granary. It was this inspiring picture that everyone woke up to. The
Gory details of killings, bombardments, deaths, were inside in the
Newspaper, buried among other news.
In India we only read about death, sickness, terrorism, crime. Why are we so
NEGATIVE? Another question: Why are we, as a nation so obsessed with foreign
Things? We want foreign T. Vs, we want foreign shirts. We want foreign
Technology.
Why this obsession with everything imported. Do we not realize that
Self-respect comes with self-reliance? I was in Hyderabad giving this
Lecture,
When a 14 year old girl asked me for my autograph. I asked her what her goal
In life is. She replied: I want to live in a developed India . For her,
You and I will have to build this developed India . You must proclaim. India
Is not an under-developed nation; it is a highly developed nation. Do you
Have 10 minutes? Allow me to come back with a vengeance.
Got 10 minutes for your country? If yes, then read; otherwise, choice is
Yours.
YOU say that our government is inefficient.
YOU say that our laws are too old.
YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the garbage.
YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are a joke,
The airline is the worst in the world, mails never reach their destination.
YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs and is the absolute pits.
YOU say, say and say. What do YOU do about it?
Take a person on his way to Singapore . Give him a name - YOURS. Give him a
Face - YOURS. YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your International
Best. In Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the roads or eat in
The stores. YOU are as proud of their Underground links as they are. You pay
$5 (approx. Rs. 60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of Mahim
Causeway or Pedder Road ) between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU come back to the parking
Lot to punch your parking ticket if you have over stayed in a restaurant or
A shopping mall irrespective of your status identity... In Singapore you
Don't say anything, DO YOU? YOU wouldn't dare to eat in public during
Ramadan, in Dubai . YOU would not dare to go out without your head covered
In Jeddah . YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the telephone exchange
In London at 10 pounds ( Rs.650) a month to, 'see to it that my STD and ISD
Calls are billed to someone else.'YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph
(88 km/h) in Washington and then tell the traffic cop,
'Jaanta hai main kaun hoon (Do you know who I am?). I am so and so's son.
Take your two bucks and get lost.' YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell
Anywhere other than the garbage pail on the beaches in Australia and New
Zealand .
Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo ? Why don't YOU use
Examination jockeys or buy fake certificates in Boston ??? We are still
Talking of the same YOU. YOU who can respect and conform to a foreign system
In other countries but cannot in your own. You who will throw papers and
cigarettes on the road the moment you touch Indian ground. If you can be an
involved and appreciative citizen in an alien country, why cannot you be the
same here in India ?
Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal commissioner of Bombay , Mr.
Tinaikar , had a point to make. 'Rich people's dogs are walked on the
streets to leave their affluent droppings all over the place,' he said. 'And
then the same people turn around to criticize and blame the
authorities for inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they expect the
officers to do? Go down with a broom every time their dog feels the pressure
in his bowels?
In America every dog owner has to clean up after his pet has done the job.
Same in Japan . Will the Indian citizen do that here?' He's right. We go to
the polls to choose a government and after that forfeit all responsibility.
We sit back wanting to be pampered and expect the government to do
everything for us whilst our contribution is totally negative. We expect the
government to clean up but we are not going to stop chucking garbage all
over the place nor are we going to stop to pick a up a stray piece of paper
and throw it in the bin. We expect the railways to provide clean bathrooms
but we are not going to learn the proper use of bathrooms.
We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the best of food and
toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at the least opportunity.
This applies even to the staff who is known not to pass on the service to
the public. When it comes to burning social issues like those related to
women, dowry, girl child! and others, we make loud drawing room
protestations and continue to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? 'It's the
whole system which has to change, how will it matter if I alone forego my
sons' rights to a dowry.' So who's going to change the system?
What does a system consist of ? Very conveniently for us it consists of our
neighbours, other households, other cities, other communities and the
government. But definitely not me and YOU. When it comes to us actually
making a positive contribution to the system we lock ourselves along with
our families into a safe cocoon and look into the distance at countries far
away and wait for a Mr.Clean to come along & work miracles for us with a
majestic sweep of his hand or we leave the country and run away.
Like lazy cowards hounded by our fears we run to America to bask in their
glory and praise their system. When New York becomes insecure we run to
England . When England experiences unemployment, we take the next flight out
to the Gulf. When the Gulf is war struck, we demand to be rescued and
brought home by the Indian government. Everybody is out to abuse and rape
the country. Nobody thinks of feeding the system. Our conscience is
mortgaged to money.
Dear Indians, The article is highly thought inductive, calls for a great
deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience too.... I am echoing J. F.
Kennedy 's words to his fellow Americans to relate to Indians.....
'ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA
AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO MAKE INDIA
WHAT AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY'
Lets do what India needs from us.
Forward this mail to each Indian for a change instead of sending Jokes or
junk mails.
Bangladesh 6,300
Pakistan 2,300
Vietnam 1238
India 315
Sri Lanka 221
Turkey 97
Malaysia 36
S.Korea 29
Italy 12 (yes claimed chaotic and all)
Japan 6.8
_Somewhat_ heartening, if accidents can ever be called that. I really thought India was higher, so this is a good statistic. It does make sense. If you take all the scooters, motorcycles, autoriks, cars, trucks, buses and mopeds on Indian roads, the number of accidents per 100,000 won't be horrendously enormous. It is still very high in absolute numbers, of course. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Ethiopia has the highest rate of automobile accidents relative to number of vehicles.
Theo_Fidel wrote:Video from Auto rickshaw in Chennai. ..
Truly, the Indians on the streets don't have a clue how to drive.
It is not they don't know how to drive.
IT IS that they don't want any discipline or want any laws governing road use AND
IT IS that they want an Advanced nation infrastructure at below poverty price.
≡
state of economy and blah!
Either we accept this as is, or ask for change at grass roots level. Meaning, infrastructure should change such that silly mistakes can be prevented by ways of infrastructure design for such corrections.
Varoon Shekhar wrote:
_Somewhat_ heartening, if accidents can ever be called that. I really thought India was higher, so this is a good statistic. It does make sense. If you take all the scooters, motorcycles, autoriks, cars, trucks, buses and mopeds on Indian roads, the number of accidents per 100,000 won't be horrendously enormous. It is still very high in absolute numbers, of course. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Ethiopia has the highest rate of automobile accidents relative to number of vehicles.
The problem isn't that the ratio is high but that it is rising rapidly. As recently as 2000 'only' 75,000 people were dying on our streets. Now we are up to 125,000+ dying per year.
In most countries as the number of vehicles increases the number of deaths stays constant so gradually the averages drop, meaning traffic discipline is improving. Since ours continues to rise at a brisk pace it is clear discipline is not improving or is improving much slower than the vehicle population.
The key would be to hold the death rate at 125,000 per year. Even this would be a massive effort.
1. We have too many people. Nothing can be done about it.
2. Those people want to progress, and mobility is one of the aspirations. Nothing can be done about it
3. We are not china. We can't drive a bulldozer over the people to build wider roads.
It is my considered opinion, after living in USA as a MITI for 6 years, and the rest in desh is, no amount of education, rules, enforcement etc would change things unless the infrastructure improves to cope. You can't put a small pot of rice in front of a bunch of hungry people, and expect them to keep table manners.
So, the answer is to have infrastructure to cope with the demand. NOTHING ELSE will work.
What are our options?
1. Having bus lanes in existing roads will not work. The existing roads are just wide enough for one bus. Before going gaga about the Bogota Mayor's wisdom, take a look at the roads of his city.
2. Reserving some of the roads for bus only would work. You need to plan and do this very carefully. You will have to provide alternate routes for all points. Impossible to do in our setup, where babus will try to screw up, not help.
3. Banning two and three wheelers on certain roads will work, but it is counter intuitive for the janta, and there will be opposition from the 'poor, bike riding folk'
4. Banning cars on certain roads will work too. Same way as 3.
5. Carefully planning the network by widening/improving certain roads to offload traffic would work. Babus is the problem here again.
I would not call Colombia 'developing' per se. Its per capita is ~ $12,000 IIRC. Its rural areas are plagued by violence and poverty however.
For what ever reason we did not allocate 60% of land area to roads and transport. That is what it would take to get those sorts of wide roads. Instead we are stuck with out 20% or less street space. The only good thing is that with our population growth screeching to a halt we will thankfully never double again. So our cities might double or triple in size with total urban population going from 400 million to about 1.2 Billion. Remaining 300 million in countryside. But we wont see the 10 times to 20 times population growth we saw in the last 50-60 years.
It is hard to believe that Greater Chennai population has gone from 700,000 in 1947 to 9 Million plus now. A clean 12 times increase. Bengluru has increased even more. 400,000 in 1947 per GOI.
I think we need to look at our road situation from a Software Engineering/Agile Methodology point of view.
Before starting any project, the first question that any software engineer would (and should) ask is whether one has modeled the client needs properly or not. This phase is called requirements gathering. Any design/implementation argument before that is meaningless.
Here is my list of Indian clients and their needs:
1) Lower strata of the society:
Kind of people: Chaiwalla, paanwalla, Dhobiwalla, bhikari, immigrant labor, security guards etc
Mobility Type: Work Commute, Native place visit (once or twice a year)
Needs: Cheap, safe transportation from point A to point B. Since life revolves around making a living one need not have to travel outside of work related areas.
Related Need: Must be able to sell their products to the clients on the means of transport available.
Willingness to share transport means : High to Very high
Population: 800 - 900 million
2) Middle strata:
Kind of people: Mom and pop store owner, small time buisnessman, hotel restaurant owner, low/mid level govt babu, ITvity folks.
Mobility Type: Work Commute, Native place visit (often), Intra city/district leisure trips (often), long distance leisure trips (once or twice a year).
Needs: Cheap, safe and fast transport from point A to B. Will pay some amount of money premium for advertizement free (read, lower strata free) transport from point A to B. Need high level of comfortable/fast intracity mobility and are willing to pay for it.
Willingness to share transport means : Medium, will pay to get private transport.
Population: 100 - 250 million
3) Upper strata/elites
Kind of people: High level bureaucrats/executives of national companies, big city/national business owners, City/national level Real estate business people, C level execs, journalists, politicians etc.
Mobility Type:Work Commute, Native place visit (frequent), Intra City/district leisure trips (often), long distance leisure trip (frequent).
Needs: Safe, fast, private transport from point A to B. Will pay high premium to avoid middle class/lower strata. Need luxury transport intra/intercity and will pay for it.
Population: 50 - 100 million.
These are the requirements/needs. How would one design a transport mechanism to meet all these needs and keep as many people connected, mobile and happy at the same time.
It is clear from the above picture that Indian roads obviously do not meet anyone's needs. Neither do some of the suggestions provided above. Only if we map the needs correctly would it be clear what the ideal solution is. And only at that point incremental steps from the mess we have can be taken.
Singha wrote:here is the famous bogota BRTS photo. as you can see, an entire 4 lane network of roads built entirely for buses and fenced off from other traffic
In its latest report, the Independent Evaluation Group (IEG) of the World Bank has said that Gujarat state highways' International Roughness Index (IRI) - the commonly used method worldwide for evaluating quality of road - is better than the internationally desirable level.
Saying that it is "less than 4 metres per km", the study adds, prior to 2000, when the Bank began funding 16 state highway projects, the IRI was quite bad, ranging between 6 metres per km to 20 metres per km. Called "Project Performance Assessment Report: India", it was prepared in June 2012 and released this month.
Praising state highways maintenance, the study says, "The administrative cost in the capital maintenance and maintenance budget was reduced by almost half from 30 per cent at project approval to 15.7 per cent on project completion, The figure for 2011 shows a further decrease to 11.5 per cent, indicating an impressive and continued improvement beyond the project." The "maintenance backlog" in these years went down from 10,000 km when the project began to 1,290 km in 2011.
This, it believes, has happened because Gujarat has been a "pioneer" in pursuing economic reforms not just in the roads sector but also in fiscal policy, power, and education, and private sector participation in infrastructure.
This is the third Bank report in three years in praise of state highways. The first one, in August 2010, "Good Governance in Highway Sector: Learning from Gujarat", said the "exemplary" reforms in Gujarat's roads sector should be replicated by other states. The second one, a year later, "Lessons from International Experience: Road Asset Management", prepared for the Planning Commission of the Government of India, took almost the same view, adding, reforms in the state roads sector come "closer to international standards" and these could be followed by other developing countries.
No need to bring fellow Indians into it.
