Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Will · Post by **Will** » 05 Oct 2012 17:40

Aditya_V wrote:Of all Indian Missiles, Dhanush Still Intrugues, why a Ballistic missile on a Surface ship with short legs.

And looking at our OPV's, Only 1 missile can be carried, even it reloads are stored on the ship, moving the missile in the ship to the launcher will be cumbersome.

does anybody have any idea for what role IN plans to use these ships?

Me thinks Dhanush is just a cover for a longer range missile or a sub launched one

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 06 Oct 2012 02:15

Aditya_V wrote:Of all Indian Missiles, Dhanush Still Intrugues, why a Ballistic missile on a Surface ship with short legs.
And looking at our OPV's, Only 1 missile can be carried

I am not sure if Dhanush only has the short 350Km range bandied around by DRDO etal. again, what we see here is a navalised Prithvi...being tested to ones hearts content. the same launcher could be used for longer range missiles like Agni II/IV. If a 3 ton Brahmos can be canisterized, so can a 5 Ton Prithvi and may then enable us to have multiple missiles in one boat.
imagine a missile cruiser of the future with 2x16 cell Brahmos/Nirbhay, 8 cell Navalized BM in a VL cell and 32/64 cell Barak...
for the pigs.. even a 350 KM ranged missile armed with a powerful warhead can cause unbearable damage if used to target Karachi or Gawadar. Remember Operation Trident and Python in 1971?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 06 Oct 2012 02:16

Will wrote:Me thinks Dhanush is just a cover for a longer range missile or a sub launched one

possible !!!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 06 Oct 2012 06:28

Environment Minister Jayanthi Natarajan rejects Navy's proposed missile testing site at Tillanchong Sanctuary in Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Oct 2012 07:44

she is following Jairam Ramesh's footsteps of being the Commie in the Cabinet!

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 06 Oct 2012 08:14

There was a picture of recent Dhanush launch in one of the forums. Apart from the structural changes, the smoke pattern looks different from the earlier Dhanush launches. I believe they are trying to develop a new engine for Nirbhay which will work in marine environments. Its my guess

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 06 Oct 2012 08:21

Shrinivasan, the cuts both ways argument is true if you can find something in the enemy's stable that can target the Prithvi TEL, assume that they don't have air superiority and its outside tube artillery range, anyways Prithvi maybe sunset within a decade

my read is the mission planning software for missiles just got better with being able to navigate to target co-ordinates in near real time of target detection, don't need hours of prep time which works for fixed targets, not mobile ones, remember they had a goal of reducing the sensor to shooter loop for a while now, BMs aren't an exception I guess

and assuming Dhanush is a ship killer, targeting a ship is not very different from targeting a TEL, the ship is not even stationary

from the above two, there is a qualitative improvement in response time, although this is tested on Prithvi series, other missiles will actually use it, in that sense Prithvi tests are a cover

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 06 Oct 2012 11:11

Vipul wrote:Environment Minister Jayanthi Natarajan rejects Navy's proposed missile testing site at Tillanchong Sanctuary in Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

Perhaps they should have given the contract to Robert Varda and paid him 10 times the required amount. Saw the tub of lard defend him on TV yesterday, I guess we know her priorities.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 06 Oct 2012 11:53

symontk wrote:There was a picture of recent Dhanush launch in one of the forums. Apart from the structural changes, the smoke pattern looks different from the earlier Dhanush launches. I believe they are trying to develop a new engine for Nirbhay which will work in marine environments. Its my guess

Look like confusing Shaurya with Nirbhay

RajD · Post by **RajD** » 06 Oct 2012 12:27

ramana wrote:she is following Jairam Ramesh's footsteps of being the Commie in the Cabinet!

OT alert but can't resist to pos thi
Yesterday,Mr. Jairam commented during launch ceremony of a yatra for awareness of sanitation at Sevagram(IE report by Vivek Deshpande) that 'Toilets are more important than Temples in our country'.
Want to ask a genuine question : Can anybody be so ingrained by sick commie ideology or is it a visceral hatred for anything dharmik( I don't intend to enter a futile discussion of why he didn't mention a Ma... or a ch..) that a majority of people feel?

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 06 Oct 2012 19:02

^^If you are talking about Jairam as a person then I have nothing to say. However the message itself is absolutely right. We certainly need more toilets than temples. Just because it coming from a questionable person does not render the gist of it wrong. What should be told to him that his party has been in power for more than 50 years and he still has to talk about such basic facilities as toilets. Let's not get too much OT though.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 06 Oct 2012 19:06

Actually you are not correct. In some places, we have a temple in every house but use common public toilets. But this is getting OT.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 06 Oct 2012 21:06

sarabpal.s wrote:
symontk wrote:There was a picture of recent Dhanush launch in one of the forums. Apart from the structural changes, the smoke pattern looks different from the earlier Dhanush launches. I believe they are trying to develop a new engine for Nirbhay which will work in marine environments. Its my guess
Look like confusing Shaurya with Nirbhay

No Not at all, Dhanush / Prithvi has liquid engines , while Shaurya has solid propellant (Solid propellants have a thick white smoke). So totally different. Nirbhay is a turbofan one but however its best to test the engine together with Prithvi. I am referring to a very light white smoke in one of the Dhanush picture consistent with a aero-type engine. Prithvi / Dhanush always had a orange / red smoke. The earlier tests only show orange / red smoke. I also checked few old videos too

Anyway its a guess only

NB: I am not pasting the photo since it came from an unmentionable forum

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 07 Oct 2012 08:39

TOI: Indian Navy carries out successful test of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile off the Goa coast.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Oct 2012 10:22

Looks like a User test to see if the missile works well from INS TEG.

kit · Post by **kit** » 07 Oct 2012 18:01

Vipul wrote:Environment Minister Jayanthi Natarajan rejects Navy's proposed missile testing site at Tillanchong Sanctuary in Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

Rather the lower ranks trying to assert they have the 'power' .She is merely following Mr Jairam ! who set off a precedent. I think the people who get 'elected' need to be 'educated' on how the country is to be run ., not on whims and fancies !

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Oct 2012 19:36

They get cues from nac.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Oct 2012 21:02

What's wrong in taking a stand to protect the environment and some highly endangered species ? If you had read the article before writing that post, you'd have come to know that those islands are home to at least 2 unique bird species not found any where else. Additionally, the surrounding reefs are highly fragile too. Not everything should be viewed from Khangressi angle.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 07 Oct 2012 21:10

well except if we showed the same alacrity everywhere one would believe the Jairams and others

anyway if its a missile range - its not going to have around the clock activity like a bomb range

some sort of compromise could have been worked out - unless I missed it i did not even see a suggestion

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 Oct 2012 21:26

What stand have they taken against the massive corruption indulged in by other members/leaders of their party? Scumbags like Jairam's and Jayanti's are hypocrites of the worst kind who would take a very easy and convinient environ(Mental) case to look good at the cost of Security/Progress of the Country.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Oct 2012 21:32

Some types of wilderness should never be disturbed. How can be you be sure that the habitats will not be harmed due to human interference. Hornbills depend on a single specie for tree just a few km from their nests for their food. Those two birds mentioned in article are not found anywhere else in the world. There are probably hundreds of species of marine animals which depend on surrounding coral reefs. These are good enough reasons for me. There are enough places elsewhere for missile testing. Take back Aksai Chin , PoK and turn it all in to a missile range for all that I care. You're welcome to have your own opinion.

Vipul

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 07 Oct 2012 23:30

^^My heart bleeds for these birds and beasts, maybe we can launch them at the Chinese when they decide to whoop our asses a second time. Funny how any project for any kind of progress causes the bleeding hearts to crawl out from under their rocks. Everything from hornbills to fishermen are endangered and should be protected rather than the national interest. I just can't believe we let these sort of people breed among us even after a thousand years of oppression thanks to their refusal to see the big picture. I look forward to the day when these bleeding hearts become an endangered species.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Oct 2012 23:50

What are you going to defend, your excellency ?
An overpopulated, polluted, depleted wasteland of asthmatic keyboard warriors ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Oct 2012 01:00

Jamwal, Please take it in the off topic thread.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Oct 2012 07:11

Desh needs couple more missile testing ranges... atleast 1 inshore and 1 offshore.. Environment ministry needs to comeup with alternative sites if they find ones proposed not viable. Did they suggest any changes or just rejected the proposal. Even for Lavasa project which was an ecological disaster, the environment ministry came up with alternatives / suggestions for waiver. We need to root up all Jhollawallas from the corridors of power in Nai-Dilli

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 08 Oct 2012 07:14

Here is the real deal,

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... 974479.ece

Enhancing lethality of its fire power, the Navy today successfully test-fired a highly- manoeuvrable version of the 290-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missile from a warship off the Goa coast.

“The cruise missile was test-fired from guided missile frigate INS Teg—the Indian Navy’s latest induction from Russia off the coast of Goa early this morning,” sources told PTI.

The missile, which was fired without a warhead, hit the target ship after performing intricate manoeuvres, they said.

It had a deep penetration on the target, which caught fire, they said.

The weapon did not take a straight attack path and kept turning around before hitting the target and this capability will make it difficult for the enemy to locate the Indian warships during operations, the sources said.

INS Teg, which has been built at the Yantar shipyard in Russia, had fired the missile successfully during its pre-induction trials in Russia last year.

The two remaining warships of the project namely INS Tarkash and INS Trikand will also be armed with the cruise missile in vertical launch mode.

The successful test of the missile from the new Talwar Class frigate under project ‘Project 1135.6’ has strengthened BrahMos’ case for deployment on the similar warships being built for Russian Navy.

The two—stage missile, the first one being solid and the second one ramjet liquid propellant, has already been inducted into the Army and Navy, and the Air Force version is in final stage of trial, a defence official said.

While induction of the first version of Brahmos missile system in the Indian Navy commenced from 2005 with INS Rajput, it is now fully operational with two regiments of the Army.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Oct 2012 08:08

vasu raya wrote:Enhancing lethality of its fire power, the Navy today successfully test-fired a highly- manoeuvrable version of the 290-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missile from a warship off the Goa coast.
“The cruise missile was test-fired from guided missile frigate INS Teg—the Indian Navy’s latest induction from Russia off the coast of Goa early this morning,” sources told PTI.
The missile, which was fired without a warhead, hit the target ship after performing intricate manoeuvres

There has been a spate of tests in the last couple of weeks... 2012 has been really busy with a multitude of tests... I am still awaiting Nirbhay missile test as well as a K-X missile test.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 08 Oct 2012 08:37

jamwal wrote:What are you going to defend, your excellency ?
An overpopulated, polluted, depleted wasteland of asthmatic keyboard warriors ?

Wow, Nuclear power plants and missile ranges equal "An overpopulated, polluted, depleted wasteland of asthmatic keyboard warriors" right? What, you ran out of rants and have stooped down to name calling? or was that your level to begin with? Maybe your not being naive at all and maybe you belong to one of those commie loving sections of society. That would explain a lot.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 08 Oct 2012 08:43

Shrinivasan wrote:There has been a spate of tests in the last couple of weeks... 2012 has been really busy with a multitude of tests... I am still awaiting Nirbhay missile test as well as a K-X missile test.

me too

and I wish our neighbor responds with their tit-for-tat BM tests just to empty their inventory

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 08 Oct 2012 09:20

gentlemen, you would note that ever since the latest nuclear command authority review meeting conducted a few months ago , SFC's testing schedule has gone up.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Oct 2012 09:25

D Roy wrote:gentlemen, you would note that ever since the latest nuclear command authority review meeting conducted a few months ago , SFC's testing schedule has gone up.

Missed this connection.. thanks for the information...
^^^ I hope the pigs join the competition and fire away couple of their painted missiles.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 09 Oct 2012 07:34

08-Oct-2012 Test- In Military Colours

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Oct 2012 08:48

strange they didnt release a pic with the ship + missile in flight as is usual?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Oct 2012 12:20

According to Russian news report what was tested yesterday was a Brahmos with new guidance used on Cruise missile of Kh-101/555 class

Russian-Indian supersonic missile was almost strategic

India has tested the modified supersonic cruise anti-ship missile "Brahmos", the newspaper "Izvestia". Unlike the base case "BrahMos" guidance system is used in the Russian strategic missiles X-101 and X-555. Updated test rocket developed jointly by Russia and India, have been found to be successful.

The guidance system of the X-101 and X-555 to the "BrahMos" duplicates already installed on the missile inertial-Doppler, and the correction is now manufactured and GPS-GLONASS signal. Thanks to this revision could significantly improve the accuracy of a cruise missile. The source said the newspaper, as a result of completion "Brahmos" now surpasses class short-range missiles

At the core of the supersonic missile "Brahmos" is a Russian missile "Yakhont". Russian-Indian missile is capable of a speed exceeding the speed of sound at 2.5-2.8 times and hit targets at ranges of up to 500 kilometers. It is widely used stealth technology. "BrahMos" is created in three main variants for land, sea or air.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Oct 2012 12:24

Russian-Indian missile is capable of a speed exceeding the speed of sound at 2.5-2.8 times and hit targets at ranges of up to 500 kilometers.

Hmmmm...finally a more true range figure being quoted

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Oct 2012 12:50

seems like some improved dual-INS system + GPS/GLONASS that co-operate to reduce errors.

could be a precursor to the brahmos2 guidance package.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Oct 2012 13:53

Another similar report this time from Rian

India Modifies Brahmos Missile With New Nav System

India has uprated its BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles by installing the advanced satellite navigation systems from Russia's Kh-555 and Kh-101 strategic long-range cruise missiles, adding GPS-GLONASS technology to the existing doppler-inertial platform, Izvestia reported on Tuesday quoting sources in the military-industrial complex.

The integration of the navigation systems from Kh-555 will turn BrahMos, a supersonic cruise missile, into a "super-rocket" with almost a sub-strategic capability above its normal tactical range, capable of hitting targets over 180-300 miles (300-500 km), from sea, land and air launchers, and capable of being armed with a nuclear warhead, the source said.

The installation of the advanced navigation system is optimised for the new air-launched version of BrahMos, which will be carried by India's Russian-built Sukhoi Su-30MKI strike fighters. India plans to deploy over 200 of the advanced aircraft by 2020.

The combination of air-launched BrahMos with the Su-30 will give India a long-range strike capability similar to Russia's Tu-95MS and Tu-160 strategic bombers, said aviation analyst and editor of Vzlet magazine Vladimir Sherbakov.

"This missile is an important element in the military power of the Indian armed forces and our Indian partners have placed a lot of faith in it," he said.

India's main potential adversary, Pakistan, does not have modern air defenses capable of engaging targets outside BrahMos range, a source in Russia's High Command told the paper.

The Indian Navy carried out a successful test-firing of the sea-launched variant of the weapon on October 7 from the frigate INS Teg off the coast of Goa, the New Indian Express reported.

BrahMos can reach a speed of Mach 2.8 at levels as low as 30 feet (10 m) or fly high-profile diving attacks. The missile was jointly developed by Russia and India, based on the NPO Mashinostroyenie 3M55 Onyx (NATO SS-N-26).

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 09 Oct 2012 15:04

Guess we always new the thing could fly further away than 300 km, i think the cap is more on the software and not the hardware, secretly during war there is nothing stopping us from using it out from 500 km.

nakul · Post by **nakul** » 09 Oct 2012 15:11

Russia arming India with 500 km missiles! What happened to the MTCR, hain ji?

Meanwhile, USA is abiding by the law as it allows SK to "develop" missiles with 800 km & 500 kg payload that fall short of Beijing &Tokyo but covers Shanghai & entire NoKo. Too much coincidence, perhaps?

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 09 Oct 2012 16:31

I thought MTCR was only valid for cruise missiles?