Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Oct 2012 04:14

matrimc wrote:
shiv wrote: ...snip...
6. Using any means possible to aggravate anti US sentiment in Pakistan
Shiv ji, now you are talking. Nobody has any leverage on US polity (not even US public other than every 4 years) as long as Pakistan keeps low.

NRIs in US can do their bit when talking to pakis by doing sympathetic papi japi and stoking anti-US resentment on the part of the pakis. But never do anything concrete that actually helps the said pakis.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Oct 2012 04:26

RamaY wrote:
ramana wrote:INC might have grand plan to all their phappi jhappi for thermselves.
Bhutto's daughters are too young for Yuvraj to marry. But who knows love and war have no rules and love doesn't know caste, creed and age.

No chance. Pakis mards are ready to marry Indian Jodhas but never the other way. Only hope is if Raabert is out of the picture and Bilawal can team up with Pyaari-unnisa.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 23 Oct 2012 04:31

SBajwa wrote:We have not had a major terrorist attack since 2008 (4 years) when is the next one coming is that question!!

Jhujar wrote:About 7-8 years ago we here at BRF correctly started "breastimating " that within a decade many Pakis will start talking, cursing and reaapraising the partition. It have been so in last 3-4 years as more and more Paki bacchas are finding out Jinnah have put thme in stinking toilet. The noices from Bakistan are going to grow .
It was general consesus that Pakis will initially ask the Sikhs to lift them out of the Paki filths by approcahing the Jutts, Rajputs and others. Its happening right in front of our eyes. The Cancer taken out Jinnah is trying to rear-enter in just healed Indian body. Poaqosoky Buttkowskies must be kept in its own Hellish Mosqquosky to enjoy the Karmic retribution.

The lack of major terror attack of the intensity of 26/11 has one unintended consequence which may not bode well for the long term strategic security of India. That consequence is the rise of the WKK noise in the MSM/DDM and the marginalization of the right of the center folks as far as TSP and dealing with TSP in concerned.

So while our "peace constituency" and the WKK fifth column is busy eliminating hurdles (read right wing folks) for "unification" of their elites across the borders. The sewer rat and their armies are still keeping their knives sharp in the name of strategic depth. Our WKKs, liberal elite seem truly blind to this two face approach by the sewer rat inbreds.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Oct 2012 04:38

CRamS wrote: ...

Indeed, but I would have no beef if the actions US chose were at least correct, even if not directly beneficial to India. Lahori logic aside, how do you explain the fact that far from weakening or at least removing the capacity of TSPA to play spoiler in Afghanistan (and of course India), US has actually strengthened that. I mean the entire rationale for going to AfPak post 9/11 has been upended.

TSP is very stubborn in never doing anything to jeopardize strategic assets while simultaneously begging. Giving alms and arms to the beggar is the only way US has to communicate with TSP. faced with a choice of no communication and communication on TSP's terms, US has chosen to keep communication open.

There is also force of habit aka inertia. For 65 years US is accustomed to this relationship, so it is not easy to change it, even in the face of provocation.

Then there is the worry about nukes.

With suitable variation, India's seemingly irrationsl TSP policy can be explained with these factors.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Oct 2012 04:48

KLNMurthy wrote:Just as the US won't listen when BRF tells them to not be sugar daddy for pakis.

KLNMurthy garu, I understand. But my point is that there is no call to go on a jeeeehard against NRIs. They are as powerless as the BRF jingos. On the other hand, NRIs should understand that Indian public has other priorities in life. If and when they think that it is time to solve the Pakistani problem, then only the support will be forthcoming.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Oct 2012 04:59

chetak wrote:Just woken up??

Pakistan helping terrorists to infiltrate into Indian territory: Sushilkumar Shinde

He is new, so probably just finished reviewing the confidential files. I can only imagine the contents will make even jaded brfites go wtf.
He will be more circumspect once he gets the memo from on high.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Oct 2012 05:17

SBajwa wrote:We have not had a major terrorist attack since 2008 (4 years) when is the next one coming is that question!!

2010 Varanasi Bombing

2010 Pune Bombing

2011 Mumbai Bombings

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 23 Oct 2012 06:00

KLNMurthy wrote:
NRIs in US can do their bit when talking to pakis by doing sympathetic papi japi and stoking anti-US resentment on the part of the pakis. But never do anything concrete that actually helps the said pakis.

NRIs etc. Sorry but I thought they were persona non grata on BRF what with conflicting loyalties and all.

"With suitable variation, India's seemingly irrationsl TSP policy can be explained with these factors."

Anything can be and usually is rationalized. Small comfort to the dead and wounded.

If parliament is attacked again would I be more inclined to call for retaliation? No. It's anymore important to me than 26/11 perhaps a lot less.

There were a lot of useful functional lives lost in 26/11. I am not so sure that's the case with another 12/13/2001 on parliament.

I for one, would evince no more emotion than MMS did after 26/11.

Of course there's another attack coming. And it will be so horrendous that it begs all out retaliation against this evil of our time. But, rest assured nothing will happen as long as it does not affect the centers of power in ND.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Oct 2012 06:25

SBajwa wrote:We have not had a major terrorist attack since 2008 (4 years) when is the next one coming is that question!!

Without taking away credit from thousands of individuals doing internal security duty in India, I still think that this is a result of some sort of quid pro quo between the USA and India.

Merely repeating what I have said before..an Indian attack on Pakistan n response to terror is the perfect excuse for
1. Pulling Paki troops out of the Afghan border
2. Shifting jihadis to Cashmere

Pakistan has always threatened the US that it is more interested in India, so in order to keep Pakis fighting on the Afghan border the US has played the game both ways - that is to arm the Pakis to "reassure them" and apply pressure on India in case of military action (by, for example providing intel to Pakis about Indian troop movements).

26/11 was a watershed that showed that unless the US actually stopped its policy of treating Kashmir terrorists as separate from Taliban, Pakistan could coordinate actions to stop fighting the US' war and start a war with India.

Funnily enough even the Saudis have extradited a couple of high ticket Jihadi ba$tards back to us in recent times. A US hand here is likely. To that extent I believe there is a degree of India-US cooperation.

But I would still like to see a drying up of US arms aid to Pakistan. It is still to dangerous for India. The Taliban are nothing. But Paki army+ Taliban+ US arms against India mean more Indian dead. Things have changed of late. I believe Pakistan is no longer capable of taking on India in war but if it happens - recent US arms transfers will be deadly for Indians on the frontline

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 23 Oct 2012 07:34

Bob Schieffer: We are giving billions of dollars and TSP is giving safe heaven to Haqqani network. Do you think it is time to divorce TSP
Romney: It is not time to divorce TSP, as TSP has zillions of nukes, they don't have a popular government and is almost failing, and it is also an important ally. So we need to engage them than divorce them at this time.

=> more billions to TSP, same old same old...what's new?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Oct 2012 07:37

Funny thing is - some of the old fuddy duddies who have been on BRF since the late 90s may recall that even at that time there was an international diplomatic differentiation between the Taliban who were doing things in Afghanistan and the "Freedom fighters" of Kashmir. The two were different. The Taliban were extremists, while the freedom fighters of Cashmere were a genuine cause. This of course was the continuation of a long standing Pakistani propaganda victory over India where Pakistan's cooperation in creating the anti-Soviet Taliban was a favor that was returned by the west turning a blind eye towards terrorism in India. I repeat all this because history should not be forgotten, as it is forgotten easily.

Just ten years before that in the late 80s when the 25 years olds of India and BRF were being born the US considered both the Taliban and the Cashmere terrorists as freedom fighters. That was when Reagan was making his impassioned speeches about democratic Moslems righteously fighting the evil empire.

It took a 9-11 for the US to understand terror. I have often said how my NRI cousins who grew up with me in India and migrated to the US used to mock "excessive" airline security in Indian airports in the early 90s and tell me "You know I just drive into the airport ten minutes before my flight - my bags get checked in at the entrance and I'm in" Those cousins have 25 year old Indian American kids now and they all religiously teach their kids to reach the airport 2 hours before a fight and worry about security.

Osama and the US need to get revenge on the Soviets for Vietnam has changed the US forever. Younger Americans and those who never knew the earlier freedoms do not miss it, but something has changed. Pakistan is still responsible for a lot of that and this imagined US ability to show the Islamic world about how the US can make things difficult for them does not take into account how much more difficult the Islamic world has made things for the US.

The US is still trying to play some superpower games that are no longer possible. Even 50 years ago, when people of my generation were being born it was possible to play such games, but that phase of history has passed. It's not just me who is saying this - every two bit terrorist, Packistany and Eyeranian can see this and can see opportunities in making life difficult for the US and Americans in places where America was admired and used to rule the roost. The US was all over Iran, supplying them with F-14s and Phoenix missiles, and all over Pakistan. The US has lost both those countries. There is a limit to the number of countries the US can antagonize in the name of superpowerdom. The old attitudes are still there but not the old strength and the old charm. The cooperation of the old evil empire and its allies like India are now actively sought by a fading USA that was dismissive and derisive of them just 25 years ago. They will all take their pound of flesh.

I believe the US has no policy for Afghanistan. There is no workable end game in sight. And this is simply because it was US rage and need to take quick revenge for errors built up over decades that made them use Pakistanis as base. The US believed that Pakistanis could be manipulated the way they could be manipulated in the 60s and 80s. And the manipulation of Pakistan was handily possible by using the India lollipop. "You do our work and we help you against India". This worked very well in the 1950s, but it gradually became less effective. In the 21st century the US is still doing that, Still arming Pakistan against India hoping that Pakis will do the USs job.

As far as my view on India's future vis a vis our region we have to prepare for two outcomes
1. The US chickens out and leaves, in which case we get back to where we were and keep the mess out of our borders and to hell with Afghanistan. Heck if the US can't supply its troops without Pakistani help we are not gong to be able to do it.

2. The US stays engaged with Shitland. This may be a better option because the Pakis will be fighting the US and there will be continuing civil war in Pakistan

Either way the news that Pakistan is said to be increasing its nuclear weapons stockpile (if true) only show how little control the US has on Pakistan. But that does not matter as long as they are embroiled in there and both the US and Pakistanis are killing Pakistanis and Pakis and Taliban are killing Americans.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 23 Oct 2012 08:51

Pakistan-India jurists can end impasse: Sleeping Beauty CJP

DLP Trying KLP in P

ISLAMABAD - The jurists being the most law-knowing and mature people and capable of moulding public opinion, can play a role in creating the environment for peaceful interaction between the two neighbours, but also ensuring that such interaction is translated into real trust and harmony between the two countries.
Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry said that while addressing the delegation of Indian lawyers, who visited the Supreme Court on Monday."I believe that the present visit and interaction between the jurists of India and Pakistan will go a long way in understanding each other better and help remove lingering sense of mistrust and apathy towards each other," he added. CJ said that lawyers are among the most active and knowledgeable segment of a society. ( Ji Allah, Qadri kya kahega )
“They play a leading role in moulding the public opinion on important issues of public policy. Pakistan and India are among those two nations whose very existence was made possible primarily because of the visionary leadership of their founding fathers who were also distinguished jurists of their times,” he added. The institutions of judiciary both in Pakistan and India have a common cultural, social and legal background, he said. "We draw inspiration from the same source of jurisprudence and follow the same pluralistic and all encompassing representative democracy based on the twin principles of rule of law and supremacy of the Constitution.”"Given the peculiar evolution of democratic institutions and commonality in legal principle in our two countries, we can learn form each others' jurisprudence," he added. The Supreme Court of India has rendered benchmark judgments in the field of Public Interest litigation, he said

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 23 Oct 2012 09:02

DocJi, +1 to your 2 conclusions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Oct 2012 09:36

Shiv, Don't forget Eyeranian Mullas!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Oct 2012 10:09

Its a slow morning, so I drew a graphical depiction of changes in US attitudes towards armed Islamic groups in Pakistan. With a motto that goes something like "Jihad Fistula" the Pakistani army is an armed militia in Pakistan. All the 3 armed militias of Pakistan, the Pakistan army, the LeT/Kashmir terror groups and the Taliban get their arms, resources and training from the same sources in Pakistan. They remain allies, but over the years the US has changed its attitude towards them as shown in the picture.

India has always seen all 3 groups as a threat. All three are "above the terror line" for India. So India and the US will not be able to see eye to eye on military action in Afghanistan as long as the US sees the Pakistani army as a moderate freedom loving ally and gives them military and financial aid.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Oct 2012 10:20

shiv wrote:It took a 9-11 for the US to understand terror. I have often said how my NRI cousins who grew up with me in India and migrated to the US used to mock "excessive" airline security in Indian airports in the early 90s and tell me "You know I just drive into the airport ten minutes before my flight - my bags get checked in at the entrance and I'm in" Those cousins have 25 year old Indian American kids now and they all religiously teach their kids to reach the airport 2 hours before a fight and worry about security.

Osama and the US need to get revenge on the Soviets for Vietnam has changed the US forever. Younger Americans and those who never knew the earlier freedoms do not miss it, but something has changed. Pakistan is still responsible for a lot of that and this imagined US ability to show the Islamic world about how the US can make things difficult for them does not take into account how much more difficult the Islamic world has made things for the US.
.

Our group is working the millenium generation and we are seen lot of effect of the 911 on these gen. There was recent program about how the high schools kids narrate about their life after 911.

There is deep impact and world view has changed. The leadership of the next gen will be affected. This is 'shock' social engineering and will stay for few generations.

US in the process has lost a large part of goodwill which was also falsely earned and this will keep US people isolated for atleast one generation

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 23 Oct 2012 16:36

Unkil sure gives Pakbaric terrorist pigs money, but most of the money gets lost in overpriced arms supply, 10% and other forms. Whatever that remains, even if it means 2,0000000 F16 and 3,0000000000 tanks and weapons, will never embolden TSPA to take on Indian Army or Indian economy. It also creates dependency for spares and supplies, whichi keeps the ba.ls firmly in Unkils grips. I am not even talking about conspiracy theories of disabling secret codes and programmed destruction etc.

It is the nuclear weapons supplied by China that does that. That would stay forever, needs no spares and no further effort from the donor to the beggar.

Any analysis of the strategic situation that ignores that may well be written by MK Bhadrakumar, S Varadarajan and others of that sort, and would invite 'there is a nice useful idiot, we should cultivate him' kind of smiles from Hu Jintao and company..

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 23 Oct 2012 17:06

National Stadium, we meet again

It felt like rekindling with a former flame – the sweaty palms, the shortness of breath and the butterflies. It had been four long years apart and the reunion was going to be something special. It felt like I was finally home as I walked into the gates of National Stadium with the floodlights, the cheering of the crowd, the flurry of green and white and the various bottle bangers and chants. It didn’t matter that it wasn’t an official match, it didn’t matter that half the people could barely pronounce the names of the opposition, what mattered was that international cricket had returned to Pakistan in some form and 30,000 cricket-crazy individuals entered the ground praying that this would be the first of many matches to come.

Seems like a huge victory for paki kirkit fans. I am sure next year they would demand few IPL matches be scheduled in paki lands and then few paki teams and finally revenue sharing. Any ways the pic in the article shows a huge mesh fence erected to keep abdul fans away from players and I do not see a single mohatarma or nanha in the picture. Still the lady claims

We are a country with very few heroes and even fewer accolades to our name in recent times. I saw a city alive and kicking, I saw children with painted faces who were reciting stats on every player that walked on to the field; I saw families and women and older men in their 70s, all enthralled with the sheer joy and disbelief that a match was being played right before their eyes. There is history in those seats, records have been created on that pitch, beautiful memories have been made – you don’t need to be an avid cricket fan to realise how much cricket means to the people here. I literally skipped my way through the gate, the sign was lit up with the Pakistan star and I walked in, tears in my eyes, hoping and praying that the match goes well.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Oct 2012 20:16

Shivji,

What are the benefits/pitfalls of having TSPA identified as a separate entity from Taliban/LET types and make them fight with each other?

Isn't it a battle of attrition for TSPA?

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Oct 2012 20:29

Engineers make petrol from air and water

Link

When I saw this headline in a paki paper my first reaction was 'Oh, not again'. Then I realized it is a British company that is talking about it. BTW, whatever happened to the water car?

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 24 Oct 2012 06:36

First in a series of articles on a Paki Parliamentary deligashuns India visit by Paki Amir Mateen.

Journalist Amir Mateen travelled to India to cover the India-Pakistan parliamentary dialogue hosted jointly by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry and the Jinnah Institute.
This is the first of a series of articles that he will write to give a Pakistani perspective on India's politics, society and economy with a special reference to the prospects of Indo-Pak trade.
Crossing over to India through the Wagah border can be an emotional experience, especially for those who know India only through the stories of their parents, official propaganda or -- worse -- Bollywood.

Most of the 12 parliamentarians invited by FICCI as part of the first India-Pakistan parliamentary dialogue had never seen India before.
They nurtured mixed, and mostly stereotypical, notions about this country of over one billion people.
"Funny, it's the same sky, the same humid weather," Awami National Party Senator Farah Aqil could not resist saying, the moment we crossed the border.
Nawaz League's Hafiz Noman, who is a member of the provincial assembly, was amazed that the people "look just like us." As if weather and features can change after 10 yards! But then, 10 yards can be longer than a lifetime -- such being the reality of Pakistan and India.
Nawaz League's Mansab Dogar, who is a member of the national assembly, has suffered this reality the hard way.
He lives in Pakpattan Sharif, a mere 30 minute drive from his native Ferozwalah in India. Yet, it took him 65 years to cross to the other side and see for himself what his parents had always talked about.
He was keen to see if the family haveli in Ferozwala was as big as his father had described to him; or if the village well still had the water that his mother fetched every morning.
Pakistan's Customs and Immigration cleared us in minutes but not before they almost forced us to have some refreshments. This was typical of Pakistan's VIP-worshipping culture.
Not so in India.

Call it good or bad, the elite is not pampered as much in India.
There was too much bureaucracy and paperwork -- India's information technology revolution has not reached its Punjab border.
We had to fill long, multiple forms. This was after a detailed visa application, where one has to write the birthplace of even one's grand parents -- not always easy to remember.
Indian customs officials had this damn-these-parliamentarians attitude. They checked every item in every bag and they did it very, very slowly.
Our host and friend, journalist Jyoti Malhotra, was visibly squirming because we were getting late for a reception in Amritsar.
She just exploded when an official opened the toilet bag of one of the women parliamentarians, as if suspecting her of trying to smuggle drugs.
"You can't do that! For God's sake, they are parliamentarian guests," she protested.
Jyoti wanted the customs officials to show some courtesy but they were adamant -- as if to prove to us how strong the Indian bureaucracy was. It was funny that at one stage we, the Pakistanis, were trying to arbitrate between the two warring Indians!
After layers of multiple checks we thought we were finally through, only to be stopped again at the last gate, get out, and register ourselves separately with the -- equally infamous -- (east) Punjab 'pullas'.

Jyoti went through another round of negotiations before we could embark on our journey on the historical Grand Trunk Road, popularly known as Jarneli Sarak, which connects Peshawar and Kolkata.
Then we were stuck somewhere in the middle of this 2,500-km track, and wondered if it had been easier to traverse it when Sher Shah Suri built it 500 years ago.

"This would have triggered a dozen privilege motions in our Parliament; good that we are on the wrong side of the border," quipped Pakistan People's Party Senator Saeed Ghani.
More seriously, Muttahida Quami Movement's MNA Rasheed Godel said, "The trade between Pakistan and India is a non-starter if we do not sort out such bureaucratic red tape on both sides."
The euphoria over the prospects of growing Pakistan-India trade is visible at the Wagah-Attari border.
Both sides have expanded their trade service areas to cater to greater volumes of trade. Long queues of trucks carrying cement and chemicals wait on the Pakistani side and fruit, dyes and machinery on the Indian side.
However, one sees bigger warehouses on the Pakistani side, almost extending from Lahore to Wagah.
One reason for this could be the fact that Pakistan has allowed trade in only 103 negative items out of a list of over 1,200 to be imported from India.
But it was the transit exports from Afghanistan that constitute the bulk.

The road to Amritsar is definitely cleaner and greener on the Indian side.
Lahore has expanded almost to Wagah, exposing the ugliest side of the city. The industrial area close to the Indian border is an eyesore.
In contrast, the green fields on the way to Amritsar are refreshing.
I heard Mansab Dogar, curled up in his seat, murmuring, "Beautiful, very beautiful."
This admiration was not just for the picturesque beauty of the East Punjab landscape. Also at work was an element of nostalgia -- those stories that he had heard from the elders of the 25 Dogar villages who migrated to Pakistan in 1947.

Not everything we saw was pleasant, though.
It was shocking to see so many people defecating on the roadside, and with an abandon that was somehow difficult to imagine for Pakistanis.
Another shock was to see domestic pigs roaming around freely.
Somehow, Bollywood has never shown what is a common sight in India but unimaginable in Pakistan.
Yet another shocker, though a pleasant one, was to see a 65-year-old woman riding a scooter. MQM's Haider Rizvi was right when he remarked that women in India were definitely more liberated than in Pakistan.
It was common to see young girls, completely at ease in sleeveless shirts and jeans, commuting on flashy scooters just as the boys did. As journalist-politician Ayaz Amir remarked, Indian morality is not threatened by what their women wear.
People tend to stare less at women and foreigners in India. The reason is obvious: Indians are more accustomed to seeing people of different colour, caste and creed in comparison to largely homogeneous Pakistanis.

Here we were trying to form opinions from a small sample, sometimes forgetting the immense diversity of India.

More often than not, Indians also see Pakistanis as a monolithic phenomenon.
The diversity of Pakistan was personified by the Pakistani contingent. Their perspective on India differed as much as their views on Pakistan's politics.
ANP's Bushra Gohar and Farah Aqil represented Bacha Khan's legacy in Khyber Pashtunkhwa province, seeking friendlier ties with India.
MQM's Haider Rizvi and Rasheed Godil, with family roots in India – Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat respectively -- saw the Indo-Pak detente in the larger perspective as opposed to "inter-Punjab bonhomie."
For Senator Saif Magsi, the only time Balochistan is mentioned in the Indo-Pak equation is when Pakistan accuses India of interfering in his crisis-torn province.
Parliamentarians from the mainstream Pakistan People's Party and the Nawaz League obviously saw the issue through the national prism.
Far from the madding Indo-Pak polemics, Mansab Dogar was focused on just one thing: visiting Ferozwala.
Sadly, his dream could not materialise because of some 'logistical' reasons.
Don't miss reading the second part of Amir Mateen's rivetting account of his travel in India tomorrow!

1) Shocking scenes of Indians defecating in the open which never happens in Pakistan .... CHECK
2) Surprised to see Indian woman riding bikes....CHECK
3) Surprised to see people not oogling at woman.....CHECK
4) Shocking to see pigs roaming around free.....CHECK
5) Bollywood never shows the filthy side of India.....CHECK

More to follow tomorrow....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Oct 2012 06:45

RamaY wrote:Shivji,

What are the benefits/pitfalls of having TSPA identified as a separate entity from Taliban/LET types and make them fight with each other?

Isn't it a battle of attrition for TSPA?

The LeT, Taliban and the Pakistani army are one and the same. There is no difference in funding, training or attitudes towards India. India has known this all the time.

Giving Islamic militias different names suited the Pakistanis most, although the US too used the tactic against the Soviets.

When the US wanted to deniably screw the Soviets in Afghanistan, the US and the Pakistani army cooperated to create the Taliban (students) who were basically Paki army trained militias. The same Paki army training system was used to train Kashmiri terrorists and those groups were given names like Jaish e Poobah, LeT, HuM etc. Its like different names for different army regiments. The famous Kunduz airlift after the US attack started on Afghanistan in Oct 2001 was to allow Pakistani army instructors of the Taliban to be evacuated. Months before all this, the man who wired money to the 9-11 hijackers was freed by India, when IC 814 was hijacked in Nepal and eventually taken to Kandahr. The released Pakistani terrorists turned up in Pakistan.

There is no difference between the Pakistani army, Taliban and LeT/JuD. Any differences are imaginary. The US thinks that the same Pakistani army that created the Taliban and the same Pakistani army whose instructors with the Taliban were evacuated as the post 9-11 US attacks started is now going to fight the Taliban after taking bribes like F-16s and AMRAAMs to fight India.

The only benefit India can gain here is not to directly fight the Taliban but to indicate that the Pakistan army is a slave of the US and takes bribes to kill some of the Taliban, which is true. The Taliban need to know that at least some of their deaths are being caused by clean shaven soldiers and generals of the blasphemous army of Pakistan. Clean shaven generals of the Pakistani army live in luxurious houses with 24 hour electricity and enjoy western decadence while they allow American drones to kill innocent tribal women and children

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 24 Oct 2012 07:27

shiv wrote:
Funnily enough even the Saudis have extradited a couple of high ticket Jihadi ba$tards back to us in recent times. A US hand here is likely. To that extent I believe there is a degree of India-US cooperation.

But I would still like to see a drying up of US arms aid to Pakistan. It is still to dangerous for India. The Taliban are nothing. But Paki army+ Taliban+ US arms against India mean more Indian dead. Things have changed of late. I believe Pakistan is no longer capable of taking on India in war but if it happens - recent US arms transfers will be deadly for Indians on the frontline

This was mentioned by the former director of IB, Ravindra Narayan in a rediff interview as well. The recent extraditions from Saudi is being orchestrated by the US and not necessarily due to any warmth that the wahibis seems to have developed towards India.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 24 Oct 2012 08:49

OT

Charlie wrote:.
1) Shocking scenes of Indians defecating in the open which never happens in Pakistan .... CHECK
..

Perhaps we should tell our visitors that these people* are all defecating in the open on Pakistani flags, hain ji? Part of Indian morning ritual.

*And half of them are Rakshaks

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Oct 2012 08:58

Baikul wrote:
Charlie wrote:.
1) Shocking scenes of Indians defecating in the open which never happens in Pakistan .... CHECK
..
Perhaps we should tell our visitors that they are all defecating in the open on Pakistani flags, hain ji? Part of Indian morning ritual.

It happens in Pakistan as well. They just don't admit it. It happens in China too. I would not worry about it. Everyone must shit. Even USA has more television sets and cellphones than toilets. One Paki is being born every few seconds, but one toilet is not being built in Pakhanastan every few seconds. They don't want to admit it because Pakis like their own shit too much to criticize it.

vish_mulay · Post by **vish_mulay** » 24 Oct 2012 10:30

hehehehe shivji here is the sampler,

http://tribune.com.pk/story/424180/toil ... akistanis/
http://tribune.com.pk/story/418812/lack ... dp-report/

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has the worst sanitary conditions in the South Asian region and its total economic impact amounts to a loss of Rs343.7 billion, which is equivalent to around 3.9% of Pakistan’s gross domestic product (GDP), the Media Scrap Book reveals.
Media Scrap Book, collection of around 100 selected stories published in print and electronic media, compiled by the WashMedia-South Asia – a representative body of journalists from Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka working on water, sanitation and hygiene.

The book was launched in Islamabad on Tuesday at the National Press club. It revealed that 52,000 children die annually due to diarrhea in Pakistan. It also reveals that in Pakistan, 14 million people still do not have access to safe drinking water and over 90 million are without improved sanitation. “40 million people – nearly one fourth of the total population – in Pakistan practice open defecation,” the book mentions.

Quoting data from various studies, the book points out that approximately 50 million people defecate in the open and an estimated 8 million people use shared toilets.
Pakistan, along with other South Asian nations, is facing a daunting challenge to provide safe drinking water and sanitation to its citizens. Around a billion people in the region don’t use improved sanitation facilities and 700 million practice open defecation compromising their dignity.

Despite such conditions and several high-level political commitments to reverse this situation, governments in South Asia have been unable to provide these fundamental services, the Media Scrap Book observed.

Members of WashMedia-South Asia, including Amar Guriro, Abid Qayyum Sulari, Shafqat Munir and Mustafa Talpu attended the book’s launching ceremony.

The WashMedia-South Asia comprises of 32 media members from all the five South Asian countries and is working for the water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) sector since January 2011. So far, the members of the regional group have reported more than 1000 stories on WASH issues.

The members of the regional group, through their stories, suggested that the single and most important developmental challenge in South Asia is to end the sanitation and hygiene crisis, something the concerned governments had acknowledged during the 4th South Asian Conference on Sanitation.

No one is denying that India has major problems but these paki elite creatures really live in some other world.

Multatuli · Post by **Multatuli** » 24 Oct 2012 10:54

Shiv wrote

Funny thing is - some of the old fuddy duddies who have been on BRF since the late 90s may recall that even at that time there was an international diplomatic differentiation between the Taliban who were doing things in Afghanistan and the "Freedom fighters" of Kashmir. The two were different. The Taliban were extremists, while the freedom fighters of Cashmere were a genuine cause.

......

Either way the news that Pakistan is said to be increasing its nuclear weapons stockpile (if true) only show how little control the US has on Pakistan. But that does not matter as long as they are embroiled in there and both the US and Pakistanis are killing Pakistanis and Pakis and Taliban are killing Americans.

This post contains ideas for at least 3 scholarly papers:

1. A study of the the relationship between America and Packeestani terrorist outfits for the last 3 decades. The gradual change in the relation and the events that prompted the change US in attitude

2. America's Afghan Policy: Why the America failed in Afghanistan

3. How the US can punish Packeestani perfidy.

Shiv ji, thank you for reminding us of the change/evolution in American outlook that took place during the last 3 decades.

Also, the data you provided suggests, to me at least, that the US-Packee relationship too, will see a drastic change in the next decade or so.

I seriously hope that Indian think tanks, academics, etc. will produce papers/books on these issues.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 24 Oct 2012 10:55

German textile retailer Kik puts value on a Pakistani: Offers $1,930/- per Victim in Karachi Factory Fire

Six weeks ago, at least 259 workers died in a fire in the Pakistani port city of Karachi at a factory that produced jeans for German discount textile and clothing retailer Kik. The disaster created unfavorable headlines for the Western company because it highlighted the poor working conditions of many who create the inexpensive products sold by discounter firms. This week, the company said it is planning to pay out a combined $500,000 (€383,700) to the families of the dead, a figure that works out to about $1,930 per victim.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 62918.html

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 24 Oct 2012 11:26

Charlie wrote:.
1) Shocking scenes of Indians defecating in the open which never happens in Pakistan .... CHECK
..

Eggjcuse me for using a bit of BENIS language:

Bhy for are we worried that there is no public defecation (i.e. pakistan-secretion) in Pakistan... We are already in Pakistan, everywhere you look its Bakistan onlee. Bhy phor we need buplic dephecation hain??? Itj like saying that there is no water anywhere IN the ocean.... ironical onleeee

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 24 Oct 2012 12:38

Charlie wrote:First in a series of articles on a Paki Parliamentary deligashuns India visit by Paki Amir Mateen.

"Funny, it's the same sky, the same humid weather," Awami National Party Senator Farah Aqil could not resist saying, the moment we crossed the border.
Nawaz League's Hafiz Noman, who is a member of the provincial assembly, was amazed that the people "look just like us." As if weather and features can change after 10 yards! But then, 10 yards can be longer than a lifetime -- such being the reality of Pakistan and India.

Pakistan's Customs and Immigration cleared us in minutes but not before they almost forced us to have some refreshments.
At the border, the sky changes from Muslim to Hindu. To the West it is hot and dry reminding one of Arab and Central Asian lands. To the East it is humid like the primitive jungles.
If you were wondering how the Indian people "look just like us", they are in fact people that GoI smuggled in on the sly from Pakistan and with the help of Bollywood makeup artists, dressed them up like Indians.
When leaving a country, why would Customs and Immigration give a hoot? They already knew the ISI issued gear supplied to every member of the delegation.
Sure there were TFTA white gloved bearers serving refreshments, unlike India where you have to fend for yourself.

Call it good or bad, the elite is not pampered as much in India.
There was too much bureaucracy and paperwork -- India's information technology revolution has not reached its Punjab border.
We had to fill long, multiple forms. This was after a detailed visa application, where one has to write the birthplace of even one's grand parents -- not always easy to remember.
Indian customs officials had this damn-these-parliamentarians attitude. They checked every item in every bag and they did it very, very slowly.
Indians have evolved a system where the elite are not pampered. They have to take their loot and deposit it in Swiss banks by themselves.
India is still behind the curve on IT and could utilize the legendary skills of Pakistanis, especially guys like the whiz kid who got an email from Bill Gates with an offer of General Manager for Windows 9.
The thing about the grand parents ... well the Indian babus want to throw a curve ball for masquerading Indians. Expected answers are grand fathers were from Turkey, Arab lands, Persia, Central Asia. They already know about the grand mothers. If there is an Indian masquerading as a Pakistani, he will be outed if he puts in the birth place of his grand parents to be cities in India.
Check with President Zardari on how to speed through Indian customs. He had no problems with them on his visit to India. They are very fastidious about alcohol and that is why they were checking every bag very slowly. You should have informed them that as being very pious Muslims, you cannot be seen carrying alcohol and the customs guys would have happily waved you on.

Not everything we saw was pleasant, though.
It was shocking to see so many people defecating on the roadside, and with an abandon that was somehow difficult to imagine for Pakistanis.
Another shock was to see domestic pigs roaming around freely.
Somehow, Bollywood has never shown what is a common sight in India but unimaginable in Pakistan.
Yet another shocker, though a pleasant one, was to see a 65-year-old woman riding a scooter. MQM's Haider Rizvi was right when he remarked that women in India were definitely more liberated than in Pakistan.
It was common to see young girls, completely at ease in sleeveless shirts and jeans, commuting on flashy scooters just as the boys did. As journalist-politician Ayaz Amir remarked, Indian morality is not threatened by what their women wear.
People tend to stare less at women and foreigners in India. The reason is obvious: Indians are more accustomed to seeing people of different colour, caste and creed in comparison to largely homogeneous Pakistanis.
It is hard to imagine and is possibly shocking for Pakistanis. Indians have no qualms about nudity and the human body and are accustomed to seeing naked women. They even depict that all over their dark, narrow temples.
Sure our parliamentarians need to take notes from Pakistan on how to prevent people from shitting on the roadside with an abandon. Maybe the burqa does wonders of providing a cloak to invisibility to those shitting on the road.
The pigs roaming around freely.... well that was done by the hindu extremists to provoke the Pakistani delegation.
Womens' lib has gotten out of hand in India and the government had to relent giving out drivers licenses to women. It is tragic to see that any decent 65 year old woman has to drive by herself without being escorted by related males.
Indians have so many castes and people of darker colors and divisions within themselves that keeps them occupied. They are oblivious to foreigners and TFTA homogeneous Pakistanis.

What a load of rubbish. I can't believe that this guy passes off as a journalist. I had my chuckles for the day!

Ramu · Post by **Ramu** » 24 Oct 2012 14:32

Rohit_K wrote:German textile retailer Kik puts value on a Pakistani: Offers $1,930/- per Victim in Karachi Factory Fire

Six weeks ago, at least 259 workers died in a fire in the Pakistani port city of Karachi at a factory that produced jeans for German discount textile and clothing retailer Kik. The disaster created unfavorable headlines for the Western company because it highlighted the poor working conditions of many who create the inexpensive products sold by discounter firms. This week, the company said it is planning to pay out a combined $500,000 (€383,700) to the families of the dead, a figure that works out to about $1,930 per victim.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 62918.html

This article's other title caught my eye first.
"The Value of a Pakistani Worker"

This incident/accident happened because the paki owner of Ali Enterprises locked up his workers, the mango abdul and mango aafia in his factory for 14 hours and made them work. When this fire started nobody could escape the cremation.

the german firm compensating for a crime committed by a paki.

Kik is providing $1900 compensation for each but they want €5,535 atleast. why claim 5000 like a NATO container you pooch?

"That's not that much at all," says Nasir Mansoor of Pakistan's National Trade Union Federation (NTUF). Their goal, according to Mansoor, is for every victim's family to "receive acceptable compensation."
"Depending on the size of the order, we earned between €1.50 and €5 every day," says one worker. Hardly any of them made more than 7,000 rupies, or €60, in a month.

Look at the pictures in this article. One must not ask and I repeat must not ask if there were any toilet facilities in this premise.

btw, what is the current offered value of a pakistani worker travelling east nowadays?

And what is this flying over Ali Enterprises, Karachi? We can't rule out the possibility of a foreign hand job.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Oct 2012 14:36

Charlie wrote:First in a series of articles on a Paki Parliamentary deligashuns India visit by Paki Amir Mateen.
Not everything we saw was pleasant, though.
It was shocking to see so many people defecating on the roadside, and with an abandon that was somehow difficult to imagine for Pakistanis.

That's it! I want more toilets for Indians. We need to build more toilets for Indians. Otherwise Pakistanis get disgusted. I propose we divert the whole Indus River to India to supply toilets in India.

I cannot bear it that Pakistanis think so low of us Indians. Where is that Indus River?

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 24 Oct 2012 16:43

J for jihad or J for jobs

It all begins with lullabies. Sing praise of invaders and warriors to toddlers, and you are likely to raise children who would glorify militancy as adults. Teach toddlers about entrepreneurs, poets, and philosophers, and you may raise an enlightened nation.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 24 Oct 2012 17:02

Yawn often has polls on its home page...mullas who are interested in spreading Islam in TSP can make sure their vote is cast for the right option...

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 24 Oct 2012 18:02

wait wait dont tell me

Ha ha
The guy with Paki Flag in hand with La whori ladies is the same elite who sell roasted peenuts and honey almonds at times square and 7th in NYC.
Great elite though...

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Oct 2012 20:43

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Yet more Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden violence as the “More Pure” Greens seek to exterminate the “Less Pure” Greens in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a country claimed to have been created as a safe haven for the followers of Mohammaddenism residing in the Indian Sub-continent . On the receiving end this time around are members of the minority Ahmadi / Ahmadiyya sect of Mohammaddenism:

Target killing: Two Ahmadis shot dead in same locality

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2012 20:48

RamaY, To add to shiv's data:
- In Aug 1998 Clinton ordered cruise missile strikes on AlQ/Taliban camps in Afghanistan. Among those killed were mostly Kashmiri terrorists!
- On Sept 12th, 2001 Rawalpindi airspace was closed to allow a series of flights from Kabul. Speculation was its the "clown jewels" being brought back from "strategic depth" provided by Taliban.

So all these three letter alphabet terrroist non-state actors(NSA) are working for the non-acting state (NAS) of TSP to provide fig leaf of deniablity for the terror committed by them backed by the US.

arun · Post by **arun** » 24 Oct 2012 20:49

The National Bird of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in action.

US drone kills at least five in North Waziristan

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 24 Oct 2012 22:21

Rohit_K wrote:German textile retailer Kik puts value on a Pakistani: Offers $1,930/- per Victim in Karachi Factory Fire

Six weeks ago, at least 259 workers died in a fire in the Pakistani port city of Karachi at a factory that produced jeans for German discount textile and clothing retailer Kik. The disaster created unfavorable headlines for the Western company because it highlighted the poor working conditions of many who create the inexpensive products sold by discounter firms. This week, the company said it is planning to pay out a combined $500,000 (€383,700) to the families of the dead, a figure that works out to about $1,930 per victim.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 62918.html

Saala bahut jaada de diya in pakis ko.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 24 Oct 2012 22:27

Ramu wrote:..............
And what is this flying over Ali Enterprises, Karachi? We can't rule out the possibility of a foreign hand job.

Hmmm, plane appearing to fly into a building, wonder what that reminds me of?

And a foreign hand job? Not when all Pakistan is giving domestic hand jobs to Amir Khan.