Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 201

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Oct 2012 07:45

Jats are sort of an enigma

Bhindrenwale was a Brar Jat so was Gen. Brar at Bluestar operation and murderers of Gen. Vaidya. were also Jats. KPS gill was also a Jat., Beant Singh (murdered in early 1990s) was also a Jat.

The problem in SGPC that I see today is traced back to 1930s when SGPC was created and Historical Gurdwaras in United Punjab were put under this organization.

This organization also did other wonderful stuff like converting Ravidassia to Sikh as well as Muslims converting to Sikhs. Because of this movement many "low caste" from all over India under leadership of dr. B.R Ambedkar wanted to become Sikhs in 1930s., he actually waited for over 2 months for an invitation. The Khalsa college at Bombay was actually supported by Dr. Ambedkar and he assisted in 1930s to create it.

The leadership of SGPC at that time was 100% Jats and they got scared when looking at the numbers that Dr. Ambedkar carried with him., had all people who were supporting Dr. Ambedkar converted to Sikhism than Jats among sikh population would have reduced to less than 10% . Thus the Sikh leadership decided to not invite Dr. Ambedkar to become Sikh, Dr. Ambedkar picked Buddhism for his followers.

The head of BSP Kanshi Ram was also born as Ravidassia Sikh (his family at large still is) in Ropar but got sidelined by the Jats of SGPC.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Oct 2012 07:45

Hindu-Sikh relations in Punjab or anywhere around the world do not get affected in any way!! It is all about money!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Oct 2012 07:51

Same Jat Sikhs have excellent relation with Hindu Haryanvi Jats or Taus . They even do Rishta with each others but not with Non Jatt Sikhs.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Oct 2012 11:06

I am a Jat myself. Most Jats i know are gentlemen. Hindu and Sikh. Most Jats i know would never even support any hypothetical entity called a Jatland. Loyalties are completely to a united and Dharmic India. Rural area Jats are not as exposed to the rest of the country, and they may seem brash in their lingo. But deep inside they care deeply for the nation. From the names of those killed in the 62 war i can make out the large number of Jats Hindu's and Sikhs killed in action. Jats will be amongst the last men standing in the defense of the integrity of India that is for sure.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Oct 2012 11:56

by Harbans
Jats will be amongst the last men standing in the defense of the integrity of India that is for sure.

I agree 100% !!! Jats are enigma very tough to solve!!! I am Jat Sikh myself and have 5+ first cousins currently in Indian armed forces (police or CRPF not counting)!!!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Oct 2012 12:33

Guys, how is the discussion between Jat Sikhs and Arya Samaji hindus, relevant to this thread.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Oct 2012 22:34

They are potholes on the way to return the Pakis!

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Oct 2012 21:09

^^^

Return to India on an as is basis, or a return to the Dharmic fold? If it is the former. I have no issues. If it is the latter, then WTF, is wrong with these people?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Oct 2012 00:08

^ can you pls clarify your question? TIA

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2012 08:17

x-post...

shiv wrote:After several months of discussion on the OIT thread it is clear that the Indus was a huge barrier that could not be simply crossed at will by any invader. So Mahmuds' yearly pillage of "India" was probably pillage of what is now Pakistan. Of course the India of that era included Bactria (Balkh) in Afghanistan, Gandhara (Kandahar) and Swat (Suvastu) and Taxila (Takshshila/Islamabad). By the time Mahmud came these areas had passed from Vedic Aryans, to Zoroastrians to Buddhists. And then Mahmud brought the religion of peace that still brings peace to Pakhanastan

The ironic joke here is that one of the greatest ancient universities - Takshashila is now called Islamabad where the only education you can get now is how to kill kafirs and belong to a pious Muslim army with "Jihad Fistula" as its motto. That is Mahmud's success.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Oct 2012 11:36

RamaY wrote:^ can you pls clarify your question? TIA

Sorry for a delayed response.

What I meant to ask was that, are the Arya samajis and Jat Sikhs, preventing a return of Pakistanis to India as Muslims. Or are they preventing a conversion of Muslims into Hindu / Sikh fold.

If they are preventing the conversion into Hindu / Sikh fold, then that is is foolish of them.

This is primarily a reaction to the previous post of Rmamaji, as quoted below.

ramana wrote:They are potholes on the way to return the Pakis!

I hope it is clear now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Nov 2012 01:11

A blas from he past of Nizam...
x posting

Singha wrote:intrigued by the discussions of AP here, I purchased for some 300/- a copy of this book published by picador india "The last nizam"
http://www.amazon.com/THE-LAST-NIZAM-Gr ... last+nizam

while it fills in gaps in my knowledge about the origins of the asaf jahi dynasty in hyderabad, more importantly it starts at the beginning and goes through all the generations listing their rule and their interactions with the british regents drawing upon many sources incl east india company correspondence.

salient points:
* the nizam's state consisted not of the current AP but telengana + rayalaseema + north karnataka starting around bellary upward + a good chunk of MP as well.
* there were three powers - marathas, nizam, tipu in the region with a shifting set of alliances between them and with the french in pondi and british in chennai.
* initially the french won and setup shop in hyderabad, but when dupleix's fortunes fell, the british teamed up with nizam and marathas to kill tipu and become numerno uno

now coming to some important points
* both the british and the french made the nizam pay huge amts to a body of troops controlled company bahadur/french based in Hyd. it came to around 20-30% of the annual tax revenues of the state.
* as a state Hyd was in perpetual debt trap and only periodic bailouts by the nizam from his personal jewelry hoard and leasing and later perpetually leasing districts to the british kept it above water
* the economic struct was 1/3 of land was nizam's personal estate, 1/3 was for state govt fund raising, and rest 1/3 was given to "nobles and warlords" a mix of turks, afghans, arabs, sikhs and rohillas(pathans). these were heavily armed and kept their own levies. even beggars were said to be well armed in hyd.
* the nizam himself had a elite cadre of arab guards drawn imported stock and from the "sidi" tribe of MH we now know as of some african origin.
* reading through the list nizam by nizam is mentally taxing because seldom have I read of such a succession of rapacious, incompetent, women-addicted and charasi rulers all propped by the british so long as they could keep the loot and plunder going in terms of extracting land , resources, debt collection ......
* the british regents were 90% haramkhors with only 10% showing some tendency to do the right thing
* all the governor generals spread across chennai, kolkata and finally delhi come across as grade-A haramkhors , much worse than the regents - clive, hastings, cornwalls, minto, bentinck , irwin they are all in there
* the 1/3 owned by the nobles peasants were merciless looted , tortured and made to pay up or starved or tortured to death, entire villages in northern deccan were abandoned as people fled to neighbouring kingdoms or into east india co ruled areas - this seems to be a condition from which the northern distts of todays AP ( warangal, adilabad, karimnagar) and parts of MP are yet to recover from today.
* the 1/3 owned by the king went to funding his dissolute lifestyle and importing astonishing amt of european luxury goods plus buying up gold and jewels in which golconda was rich. women were imported from all across india and abroad in shipments. minor nobles also put their daughters into the zenana in the hope of favours. at anytime king had some 400 women to pick his nightly repast from.
* one wazir Salar jung comes across a isolated case who was capable , had a long tenure and had some goodness in his heart
* on tipu's death, mysore state was handed back to the prior dynasty of wodeyar's who as we know ruled it well and made mysore a key place of education from where legions of talented people emerged to lead independent india ... no such thing happened in hyd other than rule by the Ulema and constant state of unrest and bankruptcy

so when we talk of misrule in AP and vested interests having their hooks and claws into the state, its not a new phenomenon, AP has been ruled like ~~Laloo's bihar~~ todays TSP really much worse for 100s of years and raped by warlords, nizams, british, french many times over.

its a pretty harrowing read...a tiny minority of muslim "nobles" helped by imported warlords and their levies ruling over a 98% suffering majority of other religions mainly hindu. the razakar leaders are described by the british regents as zealots bordering on madness.

This is what Pakistan has become!!!!

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 08 Nov 2012 21:59

"India : A study in profile" by Lt-Col Javed Hassan

India had a "poor track record at projection of its power beyond its frontier" and its performance in "protecting its own freedom and sovereignty" was hopeless. This resulted from the weakness of the 'Hindu' character. If one was forced to do it, then the most appropriate, albeit over-simplified summarisation of the key traits of the Hindu would be as "presumptuous, persistent and devious".Hindu India would fragment because of the historic character weaknesses of Hindus; Islam, however, would protect Pakistan because the Pakistani character was shaped by the religion of its people, not their ethnic and racial origins.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 08 Nov 2012 22:54

Any how I try to look at Bakistan ...............I end up seeing same shit. May be it is time to call it a day and finish this dhaga?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Nov 2012 00:41

Only way to look at pakistan is "Give peace a Chance! Destroy Pakistan"

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 09 Nov 2012 00:48

Samudragupta wrote:"India : A study in profile" by Lt-Col Javed Hassan

India had a "poor track record at projection of its power beyond its frontier" and its performance in "protecting its own freedom and sovereignty" was hopeless. This resulted from the weakness of the 'Hindu' character. If one was forced to do it, then the most appropriate, albeit over-simplified summarisation of the key traits of the Hindu would be as "presumptuous, persistent and devious".Hindu India would fragment because of the historic character weaknesses of Hindus; Islam, however, would protect Pakistan because the Pakistani character was shaped by the religion of its people, not their ethnic and racial origins.

"weakness of Hindu character"! Yaaaawwwn!

Just because we didn't rape the 93,000 Paki Rakhels caught in 1971, Pakis are pissed off. They have to understand that they are simply not our type!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Nov 2012 00:59

RajeshA wrote:uote="Samudragupta"]"India : A study in profile" by Lt-Col Javed Hassan

India had a "poor track record at projection of its power beyond its frontier" and its performance in "protecting its own freedom and sovereignty" was hopeless. This resulted from the weakness of the 'Hindu' character. If one was forced to do it, then the most appropriate, albeit over-simplified summarisation of the key traits of the Hindu would be as "presumptuous, persistent and devious".Hindu India would fragment because of the historic character weaknesses of Hindus; Islam, however, would protect Pakistan because the Pakistani character was shaped by the religion of its people, not their ethnic and racial origins.
Just because we didn't rape the 93,000 Paki Rakhels caught in 1971, Pakis are pissed off. They have to understand that they are simply not our type!

So how many wars have Javed Hassan won beside conquering his cousin sister ? India has added territory from 47 onward while Paedostani Paedommodans lost half of their country withing 25 years and now going to loose 2/3 of whatever is left.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Nov 2012 09:47

RajeshA wrote:"weakness of Hindu character"! Yaaaawwwn! Just because we didn't rape the 93,000 Paki Rakhels caught in 1971, Pakis are pissed off. They have to understand that they are simply not our type!

That's what bugs most pakis nowdays. First the abject surrender of 93,000 mard-e-momeens to an army of dalits, baniyas and brahmins led by parsis, sikhs and jews. That's hard to digest as is. Then, after remaining in safe custody from the bengalis for over three years while their motormamas slept around with other family members, most (if not all) of the mard-e-besharams returned to pakiland to live in their comfortable defence colony homes and went back to lead their regiments and brigades as if nothing had happened. The least they could have done was what the Japanese did (viz., hara-kiri instead of surrendering). But then, there is the corrupted DNA factor that is now ingrained in every paki living on the other side of the Ravi and Indus (which is another discussion).

Some paki morons, like this clueless colonel (and that pagal sehgal) have to live with that shame, in public infamy. How can they talk about winning wars when their two "greatest generations" got their asses whooped, three times in forty years. name one war or a battle that they have won with dignity.

lest they forget, it is the Hindu character and the vedic faith that treats the defeated enemy fairly and lets it go back to its barracks. Its the paki character that keeps coming back for more. They should be thanking their allah for that flaw in Hindu character.

Hence, these feel good articles. The reality is that not many in pakiland believe such cockamamie BS by retired faujis any more.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Nov 2012 10:13

Cross post

Sagar G wrote:
shiv wrote:I think India the nation is right in being afraid of Pakistan. We don't want to get nuked even if we are able to destroy Pakistan in a war.
If such is the case then we will never get over the problem named pakistan,

I think this is an accurate and honest assessment. I do not see any situation in which we can get over the Pakistan problem in the next 50 years. There are too many brainwashed Islamists in Pakistan who will fight with India as if they are fighting for Islam.

I don't think India should attempt to fight Pakistan. In my view India should let Pakistan develop its idea of Islam so the whole world can see what Islam actually means. After that let there be war between Islam a envisioned by Pakistan and everyone else, or a realization that Islam itself needs a change of course.

As long as we wish away Islam as a source of problem we will only be pretending that it can be solved. Pakistan is a state based on Islam and all disputes with India are Islamic issues. Disputes with the US too are now islamic. Pakistan is not a nation state, It is a manifestation of Islam being maintained as an islamic warrior nation. Just because the USA and the secular Indian government pretend otherwise does not change fundamental facts.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 09 Nov 2012 10:38

anupmisra wrote:
RajeshA wrote:"weakness of Hindu character"! Yaaaawwwn! Just because we didn't rape the 93,000 Paki Rakhels caught in 1971, Pakis are pissed off. They have to understand that they are simply not our type!
That's what bugs most pakis nowdays. First the abject surrender of 93,000 mard-e-momeens to an army of dalits, baniyas and brahmins led by parsis, sikhs and jews. <snip> The least they could have done was what the Japanese did (viz., hara-kiri instead of surrendering). But then, there is the corrupted DNA factor that is now ingrained in every paki living on the other side of the Ravi and Indus (which is another discussion).

I actually suggested that to a Paki audience of about 10-12 guys on another forum. These 10-12 Pakis belonged to the whole spectrum that can be expected in Pakiland. Not one said anything. I took that a sign of acquiescence. There was teflon coated PA bootlicker too. Even he did not protest against my speculative observation.

Deep down even pakis know they could have simply lied about any Mard-e-momin deeds prior to 47. Even after 47 some things like Ayub can be dismissed as shenanigans of powerful people and excused away as historical baggage. But after 47 if their is one thing that they know they could have done straight even from their own Ghazwa POV was to have done something about the public spectacle that 93000 Mard-e-momin raping, genociding, surrendering and then not repenting causes.

This one thing seems to get the Pakis to display a proper spectrum of human response. Something that the monolithic hijab clad people had turned their back against.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Nov 2012 17:57

ravi_g wrote:Deep down even pakis know they could have simply lied about any Mard-e-momin deeds prior to 47.

Not just pre-1947. That brazen lie was spoon fed till 1971.

Pre '47 one can thank the brits for that fable as there was self-interest involved. Post '47, it was the self-inflicted shame of getting a moth eaten pa'astan that drove the "leader of the day" to make claims that each paki jawan was equal to ten cowering banias and brahmins. That boisterous claim, which amply suited the paki psyche, drove the hungry momeen to line for another ghazwa-e-hind. But the sight of 93,000 PoWs, suitably plastered on their own postage stamps, dampened that mean spirit for a while.

Note how the PoW image in the postage stamp above includes the bandaged infirm and kids. That's how you manipulate public opinion in lalaland. Damn you Yindoos.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 10 Nov 2012 11:59

The Koranic concept of War by Brig. SK Malik...

http://wolfpangloss.files.wordpress.com ... of-war.pdf

This is another book part of the course curriculum of the Staff College Quetta

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Dec 2012 22:19

Looking thru Paki eyes, India is the dhimmi that got away on its way to greatness.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 04 Dec 2012 00:42

Anupmisra , that postage stamp is a keeper.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Dec 2012 07:31

Anujan wrote:I had posted this a few months back.

Couple of pisko notes about Pakis and their Jinnah pooja.

India has a continuous history and an identity. To top it all, the history of freedom struggle which ended colonialism is a definitive watershed in modern India's creation. Gandhi-ji, who was at the center of this struggle propounded a universal philosophy of unity and peace, which I think is timeless (whether it is practical is another issue).

Pakis sorely miss all this. Pakistan is an artificial construct. They are bunch of converts who hate their history and geography. On top of that, the raisin-dieter of their existence is a fellow who claimed that Hindus and Muslims cannot live together so muslims need their own country. A load of good it did to them as 1971 showed.

"Liberal" Pakistanis, to bring Pakistan's history and founding philosophy on par with India, invent things and pin it on Jinnah (the only fellow of note in Pakistan movement)*. They like to have "non-traditional interpretations" of two nation theory, (passing it off as some sort of philosophy which was actually rooted in care and affection of minorities as Mohsin Hamid tries to pass off here http://tribune.com.pk/story/344536/a-co ... inorities/ and I quote:)

Quote:
There are two ways of explaining why Pakistan was created. One is to say that the impulse for Pakistan was a Muslim-nationalist impulse. That is what we are taught in school and probably what most Pakistanis believe. But there is another explanation. And it is this: the drive to form Pakistan was rooted in the notion of minority rights.

Minority rights indeed! Pray tell me how many years since Independence it took them to excommunicate Ahmedis?

Back to the point, liberals try to painstakingly build a halo around Jinnah, claiming that he was some sort of foresighted visionary who struggled for minority rights to establish a country on modern principles. Which ofcourse, is a load of bull. Jinnah was a product of two factors

1. He could not stomach that aristocratic leaders of Indian national congress were replaced by short dark poor people who had mass support.

2. He realized that by extension, democracy would do this to all aristocratic muslims. Their disproportionate representation and divine right to rule would be curtailed if free and fair elections were held. They have to participate in the affairs of the country as any other common Indian. Bahadur Shah Zafar aint coming back as King of India.

Thus all the takleef about separate electorate and the fight with Gandhi and so forth.

Pakistan was founded by a petty minded individual with outsize ego, whose founding thesis was Muslims cannot co-exist with hindus and ergo they needed their own country. He was ready to conspire with the British for this. He was ready to create a geographical monstrosity with no cohesion for this. When a huge turning point in the history of humanity arrived, he did not choose to boldly experiment with unity and democracy in a multicultural society. Instead he chose to feed his ego and displayed his divisive narrow-mindedness. And that is the truth that liberals like Mr Hamdani try to whitewash by talking of "non-traditional interpretation". They can do mental masturbation all they want and write articles along the lines of Did two actually mean one, when Jinnah said "two nation theory?". But the truth is there for all to see. Jinnah said he wanted a country for Muslims, because Muslims cannot co-exist with Hindus. It is reasonable to extrapolate that he was of the opinion that Muslims cannot co-exist with Sikhs and Buddhists and Atheists and Jews. Then why all this takleef that Sikhs didnt join Pakistan? This makes Jinnah divisive and petty minded. Jinnah probably did not believe all the BS he was spouting, but said it anyway, because his ultimate aim was to make sure Muslims had political power and he had a say in the new country and did not get marginalized. This makes Jinnah egostical, hypocriticial *in addition to being* a divisive petty minded fellow. No matter how much you try to whitewash him.

This is Pisko post part 1, part 2 is to follow.

*Atleast conservative Pakis are intellectually honest in the sense that they accept that their country was founded in the spirit of hatred for Hindus. The actual truth is neither. Neither was Jinnah interested in minority welfare nor did the major movers and shaker fatcats found a country based on hatred for Hindus. They wanted a country where they can retain their lands, not have land reforms, continue to rule and continue oppressing mango abduls. The mango abduls and the Mullahs were simply fed a diet of "Islam Khatrey mein hai", given money and training. And now those mango abduls and Mullahs eventually took over and are Qadrifying the fatcats.

and

Johann wrote:
Anujan wrote:*Atleast conservative Pakis are intellectually honest in the sense that they accept that their country was founded in the spirit of hatred for Hindus. The actual truth is neither. Neither was Jinnah interested in minority welfare nor did the major movers and shaker fatcats found a country based on hatred for Hindus. They wanted a country where they can retain their lands, not have land reforms, continue to rule and continue oppressing mango abduls. The mango abduls and the Mullahs were simply fed a diet of "Islam Khatrey mein hai", given money and training. And now those mango abduls and Mullahs eventually took over and are Qadrifying the fatcats.
Well said, that is *exactly* why the landlords of Pakjab switched support from the anti-Partition Unionist Party to the Muslim League in the 1940s. The INC made it clear that land reform would be a top priority.

But the Mohajirs of UP who were the strongest supporters of the Pakistan idea were less worried about land and more concerned about the identity and culture wars. Their memory is of the post-1857 rise of Hindi and the eclipse of Hindusthani/Urdu. They assumed that India would be ruled by the sentiments of movements like the Arya Samaj and Hindu Mahasabha, and function in a completely majoritarian fashion, culturally, legally and politically. They didn't imagine a UP where people like Laloo Yadav can not hold onto power without an alliance between Muslims and particular caste groups.

At the end of the day both the Pakjabi landlords and the Mohajirs supported Pakistan out of shared a fear of consultative and representative government, which is why Pakistan has had so much difficulty making democracy work. That is why the Pakistani Army is as defined as its consistent willingness to screw over the majority of Pakistanis as it is by fear and loathing for power in the hands of Hindus.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2013 04:28

Six posts from TSP thread on the emergence of Tahirul Qadri

bhavani wrote:The military seems to be creeping back into power in porkiland. Tahirul Qadri is pretty much a creation of ISI and Army. His agenda is quite radical. he has suddenly appeared from Canada.

He seems to be the mullah counterpart of Musharaff. The Media Elites, all the self proclaimed experts of pakistani talk shows, the army all seem to inviting this guy, which eerily reminds one of Mushy.

One can only hope what new hell is this guy going take our paki neighbours into. May be pakistan will end up like Current Iran, but that means all the rich army generals, rich folks from karachi, and islamabad will use their Canada visas to leave their paki land.

It will become a literal hell hole ( i dont mean it is not one now) infested with rats of all kinds, fat mullah rats, talibunni rats, jihadi rats. It will be a Iran with No oil and a huge population and all the crazy mullahs and nukes with an added mix of Talibs and Jihadi outfits of all kinds. Phew What a nightmare for the world. The only option paki middle-class will be left with is to swim through the Arabian sea to reach Middle east or run towards India. I just hope our sleeping PM does not open the borders and let these folks into our country.

kish wrote:
bhavani wrote:The military seems to be creeping back into power in porkiland. Tahirul Qadri is pretty much a creation of ISI and Army. His agenda is quite radical. he has suddenly appeared from Canada.
IMHO, USA is the script writer. This guy is a mere actor, doing things according to the script. He seems to be a consensual candidate for 3 of the 4 power centers Army, Supreme court & politicians (PML, MQM, PTI, etc). Don't know how 4th power center the Jihadi network will react, so far there seems to be no reaction from them.

One can only hope what new hell is this guy going take our paki neighbours into. May be pakistan will end up like Current Iran, but that means all the rich army generals, rich folks from karachi, and islamabad will use their Canada visas to leave their paki land.

It will be an obedient and subservient Iran, until this guys lasts.

It will become a literal hell hole ( i dont mean it is not one now) infested with rats of all kinds, fat mullah rats, talibunni rats, jihadi rats. It will be a Iran with No oil and a huge population and all the crazy mullahs and nukes with an added mix of Talibs and Jihadi outfits of all kinds. Phew What a nightmare for the world. The only option paki middle-class will be left with is to swim through the Arabian sea to reach Middle east or run towards India. I just hope our sleeping PM does not open the borders and let these folks into our country.
IMHO, this is what USA wanted to change. Right now, pakisatan is a world problem (Meaning NATO'S Problem). USA wanted it to be India's problem alone, like how it used to be back in the 90's. Any renewed interest in the western press for the "just cause of kashmir" is a warning sign for our country.

ramana wrote:Kish, Even the Iranian revolution was brokered by US.

No fear like Khomeini this guy will be a new Pied Piper for Paki rats (Mushikas) and will lead them astray.

What I think is this is the jihadi transformation of TSP system that I was talking about.

What two or three events that will usher in a jiahdi political state in TSP?

And lo and behold we have it here.

A mullah being anointed by US to takeover the jihadi state for all other forms have failed: Pakjab TSP politicians, TSP Army, non-Pakjab TSP politicians.

US is ushering/enabling the TSP to get their own mullahs as leaders.
The sultan model has failed. So back to Amir ul Umra model.

In a few months expect whiskey swilling generals to get qadirfied. same with the RAPE politicians.

RoyG wrote:
ramana wrote:Kish, Even the Iranian revolution was brokered by US.

No fear like Khomeini this guy will be a new Pied Piper for Paki rats (Mushikas) and will lead them astray.

What I think is this is the jihadi transformation of TSP system that I was talking about.

What two or three events that will usher in a jiahdi political state in TSP?

And lo and behold we have it here.

A mullah being anointed by US to takeover the jihadi state for all other forms have failed: Pakjab TSP politicians, TSP Army, non-Pakjab TSP politicians.

US is ushering/enabling the TSP to get their own mullahs as leaders.
The sultan model has failed. So back to Amir ul Umra model.

In a few months expect whiskey swilling generals to get qadirfied. same with the RAPE politicians.
If by qadirfied you mean slaughtered, I disagree ramanaji. However, RAPE politicians will eventually eventually be halaled. No doubt about it. PA has allowed the rally to happen. If they really thought he was a threat they would've bumped him off in no time. PA is trying to create a full fledged islamist state now with purist military behind the scenes pulling the strings. They would very much like to create a Paki Spring against Amadiyas, kafir, shias, "CIA agent" politicians and unite the people against India next door. They will try hard to get the Muslims in India to engage in the festivities. We must be vigilant.

ramana wrote:Yes this Paki Spring. I thought so too but didn't post it.

The nature of Islamist takeover is such that what I predcited will happen even if TSPA enables the paki spring.

Its the nature of the takeover.
Ancient regime will be guillotined. From French revolution to Egypt Arab spring. Only the gruesomeness could be tempered. Mubarak got killed by denying medical attention.

Time will tell na?

ramana wrote:I hate to say this but post colonial Islamist regimes were Western propped dictators who were not representative of the people. Colonialism took out the sultans and in came colonial army officers who became rulers. They suppressed all legitimate modern opposition and only outlet allowed was religious opposition that couldn't be eliminated without much grief. In some cases the relgious types were exiled(Khomieni) or the military rulers took up religious garb(Gaddafi).

Fall of Soviet Union sealed the fates of these non -religious dictators. And over the last two decades the Islamic countries are replacing these dictators, (with or without Western help) with religious leaders. In other words the Islamic world is changing its model from rule by Sultan(non-religious guy in charge of Army) to rule by Mullahs could be in tradtional attire(Iran) or suits (Morsi).

We are seeing that transition as we live.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jan 2013 06:28

http://www.newsinsight.net/1971redux.aspx#page=page-1

The only solution is to take Pakistan’s state failure to its logical conclusion. No country in the world save perhaps Israel would assist India in this process, but India has enough capabilities not to want any assistance from anyone. Pakistan has forfeited the right to exist as a state. It must be broken along its faultlines of Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan and the aptly renamed Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. India has the capacity to do so, which was exhibited in 1971 in another sector in more difficult circumstances. Assisting India is the internal collapse of Pakistan and the spread of terrorism throughout the military-jihadi state as a karmic blowback. With Pakistan broken, its most likely successor state, Punjab, would be unable to keep nuclear weapons, and that would commence the welcome denuclearization of the territory west of India. Four rump states is a tolerable proposition for India than a united, nuclear terror state. It will be a project that will require the best minds, treasure, executive audacity, and implicit national political consensus.

India needs to cleanse the sub-continent of Pakistan, and it must begin now.

+5

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2013 05:42

shiv, Analyse this article wrt TSP and India.

The Real Cuban Missile Crisis

There are some strategic mistakes India did after 1974 that enabled the TSP to acquire nukes somehow.

The Chinese nukes with TSP are like the Soviet nukes in Cuba. However INC never faced a political threat due to them and hence ignored them.

OTH, NDA had made national security their main plank and the Ghauri test was too much political cost.

However that ended the Hamletian dilemma for GOI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2013 20:32

About the rise of cleric/politician from Kanada Tahir ul Qadri in TSP.

brihaspati wrote:X-posting
Qwadri is an attempt by the London-Washington axis to try and stabilize Pakistan under an Islamist regime which
(1) would apparently be more under their direct control
(2) which can be given an image globally to be a "modernized" and "acceptably toned down" version of Islam

They fear that without such a stabilizing motion, the resulting Caliphate could become totally out of control like Iran and Afghanistan. They have previously allowed semi-home grown caliphs from the Islamic zones to come to power, but all of them have proved turncoats after some time.

They are hoping to do it better this time with Qadri. Quadri has however dropped enough scattered hints in his various works from the 1980-90's stretch that he - under all his "modern", liberal, "progressive", "sufi" shine -

(a) believes in the single political unit interpretation of the concept of the ummah
(b) believes in the concept of an Islamic state with Muslim majority under Islamic law
(c) his fundamental and original obsession in islam was the punishments/penalties
(d) he sees himself as a kind of new "interpreter" of Islam for the "modern period".

Qadri's connections go into very similar profiles that - even though disparately - but in a common underlying politically astute "modern" reaction to non-Islam - branch both into Egyptian theologians of the Al Azhar den, and the Sufi roots used by Khomeini in his pre-Ayatollate stage.

The west, knowingly or otherwise - is creating a new Khomeini for the subcontinent. It could not be initiated directly from Londonistan or Washingtonabad. Canada, the homebase of experiments like Khalistanis, would be a good neutral starting point from within the inner commonwealth.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2013 23:42

I was talking to a forum member and had said that a judicial coup with TSPA backing to remove Zaradri govt, was averted by dus percenti yesterday. Looks like that was correct assessment.

Nightwatch....

Pakistan: Judicial update. Fasih Bokhari, chief of the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), told the Supreme Court during a hearing on 17 January that the initial investigation into the corruption case against Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf and more than a dozen others was flawed and he needed more time to determine whether the premier should be arrested.

The investigating officers "were not able to bring incriminating evidence but relied on oral statements which are not warranted in the court of law," said Bokhari.

Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry questioned why the anti-corruption chief needed more time since the case against the prime minister has been pending for about a year. He ordered Bokhari to bring the case files back to the judges later in the day so they can determine whether there is incriminating evidence.

Comment: One Supreme Court justice suggested that the chief of the NAB was acting as the defense attorney for the prime minister instead of upholding the law. Nevertheless, the Court granted the NAB more time.

Exchanges of this type between law enforcers and prosecutors -- who work essentially for the executive -- and the Supreme Court are a standard feature of the Pakistani justice system. The chief of the NAB is a Zardari appointee.

The implication is that the prime minister most likely will not be arrested any time soon. For one thing, it is not clear that he can be sued, much less prosecuted, because of immunity that attaches to a serving prime minister. On the other hand, the Court's involvement ensures that his case and that of his cohorts will get another look by the NAB prosecutors and investigators.

Chief Justice Chaudhry has a longstanding grudge against President Zardari over past mistreatment. However, the Chief Justice indicated in the case that forced former Prime Minister Gilani to resign that he is not trying to destabilize the political system, but is seeking to establish the principle that no one is above the law.

The case involves a private law suit alleging that Ashraf and others took large kickbacks during his tenure as minister of water and power that were related to the construction of private power stations built to provide electricity to energy-starved Pakistan. The prime minister has denied the allegations.

Internal political update. Tension eased in Islamabad after Pakistani cleric Tahrir ul Qadri late Thursday called off a mass protest in Islamabad, pursuant to an agreement with the government. The government agreed to dissolve the National Assembly by 16 March and set new elections within 90 days of the dissolution,

Comment: This averts a major political crisis because Qadri and his followers were insisting on the dissolution of parliament over corruption charges and its replacement by a military-backed interim government. With luck, this deal will help stabilize political conditions.

The run-up to the elections should now become the focus of political energy. This would be the first time an elected civilian government completed a normal five-year term under the provisions of the constitution.

The Qadri protest movement surged so fast that its ultimate purpose, beyond the demagoguery, remains obscure. Likewise his benefactors are not known.

Some Pakistani political commentators suspect that Qadri might have been testing the political reaction to the possibility of a more overt military role in government. Alternatively, he might have been the spokesman for interests who want to guarantee the government dissolved as prescribed.

Whatever the case, he and his benefactors sent a warning to the elected government because he and his interim government generated significant support. That might have been the message.

No wonder the investigating officer in NIAB was suicided.

SSridhar wrote:NAB Official probing Rental Raja's Corruption Case Found Dead
A senior Pakistani official who was investigating corruption charges involving Prime Minister Raja PervezAshraf was found dead here today, police said.

Kamran Faisal, an Assistant Director of the (NAB), had apparently committed suicide {Oh, yeah ?}, police officials said. Faisal, who was found dead in his room at his official accommodation at the Federal Lodges in Islamabad, was one of the two investigation officers probing allegations of graft in rental power projects.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2013 23:43

x-post...

shyamd wrote:A view from KSA on Bakistan from a fairly knowledgable saudi
Curse of extremism
By: Jamal Khashoggi | January 13, 2013 . 13

The safety and security of Saudi Arabia relies on an old strategy that has remained unchanged over time despite leadership changes in surrounding countries: there is the need for a strong Pakistan in the east, and a powerful and stable Egypt in the west. The kingdom should maintain good and distinctive relations with these two countries, which represent its two wings, so that it can fly safely in its foreign relation endeavours.
This explains the positive attitude of the Saudi government toward Egypt. The kingdom has ignored campaigns of hype and scepticism fuelled by some writers, and perhaps by some officials, who are worried about and affected by an isolated situation in the region that fosters sensitivity toward the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood as the ruler of the largest Arab country. Saudi Arabia is officially maintaining good relations with Egypt. It is clear that Saudi Arabia sees Egypt as a nation first, and then considers who is governing it. This is in sharp contrast to those who consider the Muslim Brotherhood to be a defective party, even at the expense of their direct and immediate interests in the region.
Egypt is well and recovering, and our western wing is thus okay, but what about Pakistan?
There are many reasons for concern, and many things that Saudi Arabia can do there. Pakistan does not need financial support because all the money that goes there now will be lost. The US, for example, is tired of Pakistan, as it has spent more than $2 billion there annually for the past several years, and yet no miracle was achieved; Pakistan is still in a cycle of violence, poverty, corruption and continuing failure. It is enough to make a comparison with India to realise the full extent of the deteriorating situation in Pakistan. In addition, while you can see the light at the end of the Egyptian tunnel, there is no light in any Pakistani tunnel except a mass of flames caused by the latest absurd suicide bombings.
The main problem lies in the mind of Pakistanis - my apologies, I know that my friends there will not be happy over the remark - who have increasingly given credence to all manner of conspiracy theories. For example, Pakistanis do not consume salt because they believe that the iodine content contains a chemical solution that causes infertility, which will stop Muslims from procreating. They see it as part of a Western-Indian plot against Muslims. This is not a joke or an exaggeration, but rather a real health disaster that the Pakistani Ministry of Health and the WHO have addressed and are trying to solve.
This rumour began spreading two decades ago, and successive governments have been unable to refute it because Pakistanis usually do not trust officials. Religious leaders have unfortunately promoted the rumour and added a dimension of conspiracy to it by arguing that it is part of a continuous war against Muslims. These leaders have not rejected the rumour and warned their compatriots about the lack of iodine in their food, as they should have done.
This is a serious case. It has been proven in a survey conducted by academic and scientific authorities in Pakistan, including Unicef and Pakistan’s Ministry of Health, that iodine deficiency is one of the reasons behind the suffering of half of the 200 million populace from serious health disorders. Also, several reports have linked symptoms such as lethargy, low IQ, and low rate of productivity in all Pakistanis, to the spread of this rumour. It is believed that this has further damaged the fragile Pakistani economy.
A polio vaccine is another alleged plot to spread infertility among Muslims. Not only is this a common belief, but due to ignorance, poor reasoning and mock jurisprudence, some “religious” Pakistanis kill other Pakistanis, who are not even less religious than they are, just because they are involved in the campaigns of Unicef and the country’s health authorities.
These are the same health campaigns that took place in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other Muslim countries and they have succeeded in eradicating the disease. The Pakistani Taliban have killed nine men and women, who participated in this campaign despite its noble goals. This resulted in the Ministry of Health, Unicef and voluntary associations stopping the campaign for several weeks. Earlier this month, it has resumed under the protection of armed police. These are unbelievable stories, but this is what happens when extremism goes unchecked; it rears its head again in society.
Today, extremism has become the biggest disaster for Pakistan. It is in an advanced state there; it has spread, intellectually and practically, more in that nation than any other Muslim country. There are more suicide operations there than any other Islamic country (figures only challenged by Iraq). These operations occur in mosques, markets and public places, and also against army personnel. It is unfortunate that the mufti of Pakistan’s Taliban does not see anything wrong with a young man committing suicide by blowing himself up in the market or mosque to kill people. What sound reason can permit such an action?
Religious scholars in Pakistan are unable to do anything. Those who speak out and criticise the Taliban are killed. Another large group of scholars is opportunistic and employs religion in politics. These scholars keep silent about the crimes of the Taliban, to employ them in their conflict with the government. A third group has opted for safety and remained silent.
The writer is a US-educated Saudi journalist, columnist and the general manager and editor-in-chief of Al Arab News Channel. This article has been reproduced from the Arab News.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Jan 2013 17:38

Islamic South Asia

X-Posting from "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread

We often hear Indians saying, the Two-Nation Theory was wrong and it has been proven wrong by the facts on the ground - more Muslims are being killed in Pakistan every day than in India where they enjoy security of their person, property and faith.

We often hear this in discussions between Indians and Pakistanis on the Internet forums and in other media. In fact one would notice Indians of the Nehruvian bent trying to rub it in in Pakistanis.

Other Indians think, Wow, what a great train to get on and try to humiliate the Pakistanis! But this is really a huge pile of nonsense.

There are three camps here: Muslim Leaguers, Nehruvians and Bharatiyas.

The above debate is between the Muslim Leaguers and Nehruvians. Nehruvians are telling the Muslim Leaguers that they were wrong to demand a separate state of Pakistan, and history has proven them wrong, and the Nehruvians were right. But right in what?

Muslim Leaguers believed that in India, Muslims would be subdued by the huge Hindu majority and they will lose all power. Muslim Leaguers could only think like Islamics, that if there is a religious majority they would suppress the minority, garner all levers of power only for itself. Islamics would have done it like that.

Nehruvians were of the opinion that they can ensure that the Hindus would not be able to assert themselves and they can be lulled into accepting a sterilization of Bharatiya identity, civilization and cultural assertion, and they will allow Islam to take over first in the form of secularism and then in a more overt way.

This is what Nehruvians try to tell the Muslim Leaguers, that the latter made a strategic error, which can now be corrected once the Muslim Leaguers understand that there was no need to partition the Indian Subcontinent, and admit that under the guidance of Nehruvian politics, Bharat could have been undermined much more effectively than through the Partition.

Both however agree on one thing - India should purge its Bharatiya Civilization and accept Islam as its reigning ideology. Muslim Leaguers were just not confident that they could pull it off, while Nehruvians were.

Today Nehruvians are telling the Muslim Leaguers, accept our hand, let's join India and Pakistan and by sticking to the "secular" plan, we will be able to do the transformation of India into an Islamic Emirate much more easily even if it takes a little longer.

And in this debate, full-blooded Bharatiyas sometimes jump in thinking this is a triumph of the Bharatiya Civilization that Pakis are cutting themselves up, while Indian Muslims are pampered, so let's rub it in into the Pakis what morons they are. This issue is however not being discussed from the perspective of Bharatiya Civilization triumphing over Paki ideology, but rather Nehruvianian model of Islamization triumphing over the Muslim League model of Islamization.

This whole "Aman ki Asha" project is being sponsored by Nehruvians and a section of the Muslim Leaguers who have seen the light, that in India one gets both - Islam and Feudalism, just as what they had hoped to have in Pakistan, but are now having some trouble considering the radicalization of Pakistan.

What Nehruvians are hoping to achieve is that they want these enlightened Muslim Leaguers to talk to the Kabila - to Pakistani Army and bring them on board. The Pakistani Army however have vested interests in keeping Pakistan united and having control over the land, and they have some difficulty seeing how they can continue with their privileges in some united India-Pakistan union.

The Nehruvians have been told that for such a deal to go through, the Pakistani Army would have to be given a very big bone, where they can show some Islamic victory over the Kufr for them to make some moves on "South Asia", especially as the ultra-radicalized Pakis would consider any move by Pakistani Army to get cozy with the "South Asia" project as highly suspicious.

This the Nehruvians have been trying and trying - to sell Bharatiya jewelry to Pakistan without much outcry from the Bharatiyas. Often the Nehruvians have come quite close and then something or the other came up which thwarted their plans.

Bharatiyas have a big difficulty seeing the party that ostensibly ensured their freedom being willing to sell them off, but that is what "Aman ki Asha" and Track-II Diplomacy is all about - a sell out in order to bring Pakistani Army on board the project of slow managed Islamization of Bharat according to the Nehruvian model and a slow but steady death to the Bharatiya Civilization through the Nehruvian models of civilizational genocide - "secularism", corruption, Macaulayist education, Yuppyism, Hindu infiltration, "ahimsah paramo dharmah", dossiers, itiyaadi.

If people are not convinced that Nehruvianism is simply soft Islamism, then it is a justified skepticism. One could also call it perhaps - aggressive Dhimmiism. I call it aggressive Dhimmiism, because the Dhimmis acting to undermine Bharatiyas feel confident because they have the aggressive support of Islamists behind them, should it come to fisticuffs with Bharatiyas, (which they could avoid altogether simply by being clever enough). There is nothing wrong with skepticism. But this is a model which answers most questions, assuming one is willing to try it, and see the happenings with this lens.

One only has to analyze the actions and propaganda of UPA to see through their mask!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jan 2013 21:58

X-Post....

Satya_anveshi wrote:I think some of us are reacting along expected lines and so will be the institutional response. But IMO there is a change being driven by the agents that needs to be comprehended. I don't believe this is an unintended affect of political rivalry between INC-BJP or the result of expediency on the part of INC.

Increasingly we see that the media is getting integrated across both nations - Aman Ki Asha is one example but we also routinely see eggspurts from the other nation hosted on TVs. It has become commonplace in the popular prime time programs to have participants from both nations - Surkshetra and other comedy type programs. Cricket matches of course are a major common interest and national pastime in both nations. Fiascos involving celebrity icons/infamous politicos across each nation will obviously gather more attention and remain in public conscience.

What this all does is that a larger proportion of people's mindshare is being spent on common stories, news, programs, interests -basically living rooms across households of both nations are being streamlined and integrated. Anyone's guess where this will all lead to in the medium to not-so long term?

Of course elephant is in the prayer room not in living room. Certain events may make sense when seen from this perspective too.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 30 Jan 2013 22:33

Rajesh ji,

I see the difference now, thanks for bringing that out clearly. But the question is why is INC drinking the secular kola so much to undermine Hindu majority and Bharatiya concept? what is it gaining and what is it losing if it lets Nation be Hindu yet let allow religious freedom? is it the lure of ghaddi? how can we be so sure that it is so? I think we need to have a clear picture about the inner dynamics of this "aman ki asha", this is not something that can wished away, it is obvious now that there is an agenda to all this, Track-II diplomacy, what Satya Anveshi ji said above about Indo-Pak media scratching each others' back, undermining of IA. All this is not good, as I said something is brewing and something big might happen in 2 years. Ground is being prepared for the short term as well as long term. So we need to understand the motive.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 30 Jan 2013 23:07

venug ji,

till about 9750 posts I did not say a single negative word against the INC on BRF. It is a national institution and I did not want to say things to undermine it.

Even after 26/11 and the dossier tamasha, I thought, well hands were tied, there were strategic considerations, perhaps the long view, perhaps some chanakyaniti somewhere invisible to us outside the inner circle.

But after the beheading and Salman Khursheed's non-response, that it will pass, and after Sushil Kumar Shinde's words about Hindu Terror, I've had to change my position of staying above Indian politics.

But the question is why is INC drinking the secular kola so much to undermine Hindu majority and Bharatiya concept? what is it gaining and what is it losing if it lets Nation be Hindu yet let allow religious freedom? is it the lure of ghaddi?

I think it has a lot to do with Chacha's own Islamic antecedents. There are some theories about his Islamic ancestry. Then there are theories about Iron Lady's Muslim husband. Then there was the Catholic input in the form of the current Viceroy. Even the daughter was married into a Christian family.

Considering this influx of Islamic and Christian identities into the dynasty and the suspicion that it was Islamic to begin with, I am not surprised at the strong but hidden anti-Hindu agenda. If the origins are Islamic, then not even a shred of sympathy is to be expected for Bharatiya Civilization.

In India, the big challenge is the 83% Hindu majority, so one can understand why the Islamics and Christianists would form an alliance.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 30 Jan 2013 23:35

RajeshA wrote:I think it has a lot to do with Chacha's own Islamic antecedents. There are some theories about his Islamic ancestry. Then there are theories about Iron Lady's Muslim husband.

RajeshA ji, I am also suspicious about certain factions in Indian politics, but I find this "Islamic antecedents" of Nehru-Gandhi dynasty a bit Tejo-ish. Indira's husband was Feroze Gandhi, a Parsi, not Moslem. As for Nehru's Islamized ways, I think that can be found in many traditionally upper caste Hindu families in the north, who until 3 generations ago would read, write and speak Urdu and sometimes even Persian. So psychologically one can say they are still colonized and deracinated, but this theory about his family origins makes little sense. In any case, even if it were true, racial origins shouldn't be a problem for "Bharatiyas". The issue could have been better scoped around culture and psychology.

I have a general question: So we know the "Muslim League" way of thinking -- at best, as a separate electorate within India, at worst to have the chand sitara on Red Fort. I'm beginning to understand the Congressi cabal way of thinking -- to encourage a gushing dhimmitude in India, gubo to north-western jahanpanah wannabes, and rule India with a Mogul balance of power strategy. But what exactly is the alternative? What is the Bharatiya plan, culturally and politically? What does the Bharatiya plan offer minorities, including the people of TSP?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 31 Jan 2013 00:18

Excuse me, Carl. What makes you think we owe the people of TSP anything?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jan 2013 00:23

Carl ji,

Bharatiya offer to sub-continental muslims and christians would be to guide/help/facilitate minority spiritual doctrines are modified to become Veda-sammata sects thus helping them become the pluralistic, eco-conscious and God-realizing citizenry same as their Indic brethren.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 31 Jan 2013 00:32

PratikDas ji, we "owe" them an alternative ideology and system. Something that addresses some of their legitimate needs and counters some of their other insistent obsessions. Something that demonstrably brings justice and sanity, and exposes and destroys those who use delusion and coercion to perpetuate injustice or insanity. Something that gives them individual freedom but also integrates them with being Indic. Etc.

RamaY ji, that sounds nice, but it has to come bundled with a socio-political package of reform also. Just like even in India it won't sell until unjust and oppressive feudal and caste monopolistic abuse of this Veda is removed and prosperity increased, so also in TSP. So I think Bharata has to confront TSP with a comprehensive "movement" and then offer them the choice of becoming a part of it or fighting it. Such a movement could include something like anti-feudal Naxalism to destroy the feudals, their priesthood and their goonda pehelwans (perhaps through non-state actors based out of India). It could include many other aspects related to how we play international politics, etc. I think an Indic Left has to emerge strongly, that advocates land reform, is unequivocally anti-caste (in the sense of feudalistic or monopolistic caste relations, rather than healthy caste-based competition), is focused on an integrated education system, etc. Something like that.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 31 Jan 2013 00:42

Carl wrote:PratikDas ji, we "owe" them an alternative ideology and system. Something that addresses some of their legitimate needs and counters some of their other insistent obsessions. Something that demonstrably brings justice and sanity, and exposes and destroys those who use delusion and coercion to perpetuate injustice or insanity. Something that gives them individual freedom but also integrates them with being Indic. Etc.

No we do not because we always had an alternative ideology and system and they chose to walk away from all that by forming their own state. At what point did we forget this basic fact?

Why do we choose to ignore the fact that their future generations are being prepped for Hindu hatred by relatively recent modifications to their history books?

When did India become the designated nanny state for the people of Pakistan?

What would a poll of Pakistani people indicate as a majority opinion today if one were to be conducted - that they want Muslims to rule Hindus or they want Hindu help in addressing some of their "legitimate needs"?

How do you think a US supported Islamist fundamentalist Pakistani Army and ISI is going to simply disappear so that the people of TSP may suddenly find air to voice their grievances?

Simply put, the Bharatiya plan must ensure that what happens to TSP is not allowed to happen in India, that India does not get Balkanised by the UPA along the lines caste and religion.

Why is all this so difficult to comprehend? And more importantly, why are attempts by the UPA to marginalise the Hindu opinion in concerto with our 50 paisa journalists and retired personnel of the armed forces, as evident from recent events, not seen as alarming?