BecauseOne cannot help but wonder; why was there a need for changes in the Quran, if it really contained God’s words? If Allah is indeed all-powerful and all-knowing, why would he need to revise and correct himself so often?
In this link the caption for that photo isCarl wrote:Picture being circulated in some Persian groups: A girl child tries to defend her mother (lying fallen in the burqa) who is being stoned to death. She is throwing some stones back at the crowd as they leave. Taliban Afg.
An Afghan beggar woman clad in burqa sleeps on a road, as her daughter throws a small stone for fun while waiting for alms on the out skirts of Kabul, Afghanistan. The World Food Program announces it will cut food assistance to more than 3 million Afghans because of a shortage of money from donor nations. (AP)
I love it. Skilful use of propaganda.Carl wrote:venug, the story on the farsi group says she is dead. But after reading Rony's post when I look at it closely I also get the feeling that this group may have misused it. The vicious unscrupulousness of propaganda and counter-propaganda used by Islamists, Shahis, MeK types, etc is amazing. Let's see what that group's mod says.
Thanks for this archivable resource
A grandiose plan drawn by Saudi Arabian authorities to expand Medina’s famed Masjid an-Nabawi mosque has polarised supporters of the project and others who contend that the plan in its present form assaults Islamic heritage.
The Saudis plan to massively expand the mosque, which has graves of Prophet Mohammad and his companions Abu Bakr and Umar, to accommodate 1.6 million worshippers at one go.
The problem does not arise with the scale of the ambition — building the world’s largest building at a cost of $6 billion. A majority of people agree that places of religious worship in Medina need to expand exponentially to accommodate a rapid increase in number of pilgrims. Currently at 12 million per year, the number, riding on the availability of cheap air travel, is expected to shoot up to 17 million by 2025.
The real controversy arises from the nature of the expansion.
Expansion
Critics point out that Masjid an-Nabawi would expand largely westward, a development that could threaten the existence of three buildings beyond the walls of the existing compound — the two mosques dedicated to Abu Bakr and Umar; and Masjid Ghamama, the iconic structure built on the spot where, it is believed, Prophet Mohammad offered his first prayers for the Id festival. The Saudis have not declared plans either to preserve or relocate these seventh century mosques as yet.
Notice the restrained sentences. If it was some other persons doing it, words like "same persons had previously demolished 100s of sacred sites","communal track record" etc would have been usedSaudi Arabia’s poor track record on the protection of Islamic heritage structures has further fuelled anxiety about these sites’ future. The Washington-based Gulf Institute estimates that 95 per cent of all 1,000-year-old buildings in Makkah and Medina have been destroyed over the last 20 years.
deafening silence from our own psec fakerssum wrote:Love the way "secular" DDM uses such refined words when describing stuff being done by Saudis or from "members of a particular community". Imagine if the same was being done by some non-Islamic government, esp in India by a communal Hindu party led govt. Words like demolished, protests swept aside, saffron party, growth of communalism, minorities are threatened by this step etc would have been freely thrown around in the article.
There is not a single "demolish" word in the entire article though that it what the Saudis are doing:
Medina mosque expansion threatens historic sites
A grandiose plan drawn by Saudi Arabian authorities to expand Medina’s famed Masjid an-Nabawi mosque has polarised supporters of the project and others who contend that the plan in its present form assaults Islamic heritage.
The Saudis plan to massively expand the mosque, which has graves of Prophet Mohammad and his companions Abu Bakr and Umar, to accommodate 1.6 million worshippers at one go.
The problem does not arise with the scale of the ambition — building the world’s largest building at a cost of $6 billion. A majority of people agree that places of religious worship in Medina need to expand exponentially to accommodate a rapid increase in number of pilgrims. Currently at 12 million per year, the number, riding on the availability of cheap air travel, is expected to shoot up to 17 million by 2025.
The real controversy arises from the nature of the expansion.
Expansion
Critics point out that Masjid an-Nabawi would expand largely westward, a development that could threaten the existence of three buildings beyond the walls of the existing compound — the two mosques dedicated to Abu Bakr and Umar; and Masjid Ghamama, the iconic structure built on the spot where, it is believed, Prophet Mohammad offered his first prayers for the Id festival. The Saudis have not declared plans either to preserve or relocate these seventh century mosques as yet.Notice the restrained sentences. If it was some other persons doing it, words like "same persons had previously demolished 100s of sacred sites","communal track record" etc would have been usedSaudi Arabia’s poor track record on the protection of Islamic heritage structures has further fuelled anxiety about these sites’ future. The Washington-based Gulf Institute estimates that 95 per cent of all 1,000-year-old buildings in Makkah and Medina have been destroyed over the last 20 years.
All i can say is wow...
Is it ignorance or agenda that drives Indian history narrative? The myth about Islamic contribution to India.
Universities and collegesPeople who are listing Taj Mahal, Fatehpur Sikri, Red Fort, Agra Fort as contribution to India should be really ashamed of themselves as they cant tell the difference between real contribution to culture and civilisation from self aggrandizement, self serving, egotistical constructions made on the back of poor people’s labour and tax money extracted from an already impoverished people.
Farming and IrrigationBefore the advent of Islam on Indian soil, India has as many as 20 large universities some of them which were international in nature, some of the prominent ones were Takshashila, Nalanda, Sharada Peeth, Varanasi, Kanchipuram, Valabhi, Vikramshila, Jagaddala, Lalitgiri, Phuphagiri, Udayagiri, Odantapuri, Ratnagiri (Odisha) etc where student from across the world studied Mathematics, Algebra, Astronomy Physics, Alchemy, Medicine, Anatomy, Surgery, Literature and whole lot of other topics. As Muslim invaders progressed east across India, these Universities were extinguished one by one starting with Takshashila the largest and the oldest to the brutal destruction and burning of Nalanda by Bhaktiyar Khilji in the 1193 AD. In turn none of these benign invaders from Bin Qasim to Kutub-udin-Aibak to Babur to Aurangzeb to Nadir Shah instituted a new University or center of learning. I invite apologists like William Dalrymple, Romila Thappar, Girish Karnad etc to cite examples where these invaders and conquerors promoted science, education and learning and institutionalized learning.
Girish Karnad takes great pleasure in belittling the Vijaynagar Empire, its achievements and rejoices in its destruction by blaming it on fictitious decadence theory. Little does he know that Vijaynagar was probably one of the first welfare states in the world if not the first? The kingdom paid from its treasury for empire wide water works to ensure running water for its subjects. Even today we can see remnants of aqueducts in southern India from that era. The kingdom paid for irrigation tank building projects to harvest rain water some of which are still in use today for farming. The kings of Vijaynagar especially Krishnadeva Raya personally engineered and supervised the building of a damn across the Tungabhadra still in use today. Similar irrigation works and canal building were undertaken by Hindu kings all across India. Indian farmers had perfected the irrigation using a system called Phad (river water diverted into fields) and Baadh (overflowing river, tank or lake is breached to irrigate fields) besides other mechanical methods still used today.In and around Bhopal huge natural lakes were maintained by Hindu kings for fish farming and as a source of irrigation for farmers, which were drained by Mughal’s to play polo. Compare this to lack of any such projects during the Mughal era or earlier Delhi Sultanate.
Health careI would also like to point the blatant lie of Marxist historians to credit the revenue and taxation system to the Mughals especially Akbar. The system of revenue collection and taxation existed from time immemorial instituted by Hindu kings based on Hindu ‘Shashtras’ which the Delhi Sultanate and later Mughals institutionalized it for brutal oppression. It was unimaginable that barbarian tribal warlords who roamed the central Asian dust bowl had any knowledge about taxation and revenue collection that they could impart onto others.
Nobles and householders of this country had founded hospitals within the city to which the poor of all countries, the destitute, the crippled and the diseased may repair. They receive every kind of requisite help. Physicians inspect their diseases, and according to their cases, order them food and drink, medicines or decoctions, everything in fact that contributes to their ease. When cured they depart at their ease.
Marathas built chattrams.Earlier during the Mauryan’s under Ashoka (300 BC) had institutionalized hospitals and veterinary clinics were established in towns and villages and even on busy highways.
Chatrams were not mere boarding places. They provided food, health facilities and space for the animals that accompanied travellers. Each chatram was separated from the other by a day’s travel. Old resting places for travellers are found in other countries, but what makes these chatrams different from the caravanserais is that they cater to all kinds of travellers — not merely traders. In South India, trade and pilgrim routes coexisted and the inns served both pilgrims and travellers. Endowing pilgrims and pilgrimage was considered important and special care and facilities were provided. The most important pilgrimage route in South India was the one that led to Rameswaram. Along this route, 18 chatrams were built and patronised by the Maratha Kings in the 18th and 19th Centuries. The most elaborate and ornate of them are the Mukthambal Chatram at Orathanadu and Yamunambal Chatram at Needamangalam.
The Chatram were built by the Maratha ruler of Thanjavur, Maharaja Serfojee who wrote the British to continue the services…
‘Chatrams have Doctors, skillful in the cure of diseases, swellings and the poison of reptiles. Travellers who fall sick at the Chetram or before their arrival, receive medicines, and the diet proper for them, and are attended with respect and kindliness until their recovery’.
This letter of Sarfojee Maharaj is reproduced in full in Annam Bahu Kurvita: Recollecting the Indian Discipline of Growing and Sharing Food in Plenty.
{This could probably also explain why Indian’s never grudged loss of food or property to invaders and this philosophy still exists with us because I have not met any man on this planet as generous and trusting as a Indian.}
In fact a lot medical science that was transferred to Arabs during peacetime early on came back to India with the invaders. So again I don’t see any unique contribution to India, which may have enriched India.
Trade and economicsIslam did not introduce anything unique that already did not exist in India or took any art form forward. Dance and music was banned except in royal palaces or in brothels. Drama, dance and music was not encouraged and continued under the patronage of Hindu kings, village and town folks, Mughal paintings were poor one-dimensional renderings which had not evolved since the 10th century while Europe was mastering and perfecting painting in the meantime; the art of ‘shilpkaari’ or sculpting was banned so was temple building. No major literary works were written except panegyricsof emperors and nawabs and court chronicles. Urdu, the language of the army camps, a mixture of Khadi boli of North Indian plains, Persian and Turkish has no doubt enriched language and poetry but India with it’s own rich tradition of literature and language, the absence of Urdu wouldn’t have really mattered.
India has always been an agrarian and trading economy. Trade within India as well as other parts of the world highly developed and well organised since ancient times. For example Indian traders today invented the promissory note prevalent today.
Trade was carried out by sea and by land through an extensive trade network. Trade with ancient parts of the world can be traced back to the Sarasvati-Indus civilisation of India where some of the oldest ports and dry docks (a technology and engineering marvel) have been unearthed. Thus even in this area India has not received anything unique or exemplary from the Islamic conquerors that could have added value to the existing system. In fact Islam had a negative impact on trade and business with its anti ‘usury’ dictate. A deeper study into trading families of ancient India will reveal that all of them were Hindu’s a revealing fact as to who controlled trade even when the ruler was Muslim. Islam had little or no impact on trade, nor did it open new markets nor did it bring in new systems. In fact many Hindu traders of Bengal were many times bigger than the entire East India Company and all its shareholders put together.
Those Indian Muslims who hark back to the glory days of the Mughals are ignorant of the fact that it was not they who ruled, but foreign invaders. These foreign invaders did not even consider Indian Muslims as Muslim and treated them as ‘Ajlaf’
In South Asia, the Muslims are divided as Ashrafs and Ajlafs. Ashrafs claim a superior status derived from their foreign ancestry.The non-Ashrafs are assumed to be converts from Hinduism, and are therefore drawn from the indigenous population.
A Turkish scholar Zaiuddin Barrani in the court of Mohammad Tughlaq was specific in his recommendation that the “sons of Mohamed” [i.e. Ashrafs] “be given a higher social status than the low-born [i.e. Ajlaf].
In addition to the Ashraf/Ajlaf divide, there is also the Arzal caste among Muslims, who were regarded by anti-Caste activists like as the equivalent of untouchables.The term “Arzal” stands for “degraded” The Arzal group was recorded in the 1901 census in India and are also called Muslims “with whom no other Muhammadan would associate, and who are forbidden to enter the mosque or to use the public burial ground”
With the the above perspective in mind its easy to see how half baked historians like William Dalrymple and actors like Girish Karnad who concoct grand tales of Muslim rule, making Indian Muslims live in a dreamland of fake Mughal glory thereby forgetting their roots as well reality. This identification with foreign invaders assuming to be off springs of Turks, Mughal or Afghan invaders is root cause of division and distrust between Hindus and Muslims. Muslims of India are in fact victims of these foreign invaders and its time for Indian Muslims to square up to these facts and stop being misled by people with dubious agenda.
AoA onlee. Can they please include the most blasphemous of all, the Kaaba?
, reminds me of the story of Bhasmaura, these guys are increasingly showing those tendencies.
as an egyptian this is disracefull. This uneducated begger should go to afghanistan or pakistan if thats what he wants
Beware Egypt, if we don't fight this ideology we are poised to be like pakistan. I never want to be ashamed to be Egyptian, we must stop the pakis from taking over our country.
The slap is genuine. Well the Brits collected and hoarded up Muslims while pretending that it was countries like India that were intolerant. I bet 25% or more of Kashmiri terrorist finds came from British Muslim charities so I don't think there is any real fight.joygoswami wrote:Real or Staged ?
Read more:One Fat Lady in race row over Muslim ghetto' jibe: The Islamic area of Leicester frightened me, says TV chef
Chef was 'surprised any of the people who might object could read what I wrote as it is written in English'
*She describes visit to the 'ghetto' after getting lost in traffic and found herself 'in an area where all the men were wearing Islamic clothing'
*But she says there's an upside — she's thankful for the large number of Asian restaurants in the city as 'you can eat excellent curry' there
*Her comments were criticised by the Muslim Council of Britain and the city's mayor, who claims her account 'may help sell books but it is cheap'
arun wrote:X Posted from the Pakistani News and discussions thread.
Daily Mail reports that the UK Government will play down the involvement of Pakistani origin men of the Mohammadden faith in paedophilic activity targeting Non-Mohammadden children.
Is this the UK’s version of Amaan Ki Asha?:
Sex gangs report 'will play down threat of Pakistani men targeting white girls'
SWEDEN: Muslim savages brutally beat 87-year-old woman trying to stop them from abusing a puppy
The 87-year-old confronted a (Muslim) immigrant gang of five that was assaulting a helpless puppy outside a grocery store. The gang then turned their attention to her, beating her to the ground, where they brutally kicked and punched her until she started bleeding from her private parts.
The sadistic attack is now sending chock-waves through the once-idyllic small town of Helsingborg, southern Sweden.
The woman, who was discovered in her home several days after the attack with heavy bleedings from her genitals, says in an interview with Swedish Radio that she ‘couldn’t help but ask them to stop – maybe it was stupid of me but I just couldn’t stand watching them torture a small animal’.
On November 12, she was just on her way to the local grocery store in central Helsingborg to buy coffee when she was confronted with the horrific scene. ‘When I went outside I heard something howling just like a small child crying. I continued a few steps and saw a few men standing in front of me. I realized that they were beating a small dog, a black one with a white chest.’
As the 87-year-old grandmother asked the men, who were ‘speaking a language that she couldn’t understand’, to stop what they were doing and told them that ‘they should be ashamed of themselves’, they immediately responded by knocking her down to the ground.
‘One of them came up to me and hit me on the right side of of my head and I fell to the ground. One of the others forced my legs down and then they started kicking me while I was lying down.’ The gang focused most of their kicks on the 87-year-old’s lower abdomen and private parts. ‘I thought they were going to break my legs because they were bending them apart while kicking straight ahead.’
In an eerily similar case in Gothenburg in March this year, a 61-year-old pensioner was beaten so savagely that he fell into a coma. His crime? Trying to protect his dog from being harassed by an immigrant gang outside a supermarket in Kortedala.
I am not offering this as an explanation, but more in the nature of speculation after doing humongous amounts of reading during the months I was occupied in the OIT thread. I read so much about the history of Zoroastrianism and I started suspecting that Zoroastrianism may well have influenced early Islam. One of the things Islam did was to oppose or change the rules and traditions set by pre-existing monotheistic religions even as it borrowed some things. Prayer five times a day was a Zoroastrian tradition, but Zoroastrians honored and loved dogs. Perhaps dogs were loved in the lands that Islam eventually grabbed. All those lands were Zoroastrian ruled after all for a thousand glorious years before Islam. Dogs may well have been declared as dirty and evil simply to force change which seems to be par for the course in Islam.devesh wrote:Ok why the hatred of dogs? Seems very peculiar. Why not a cat or some other animal? Not that any of this is even remotely civil or humane which is of course par for the course for Islamics. But why dogs specifically?