Indian Railways Thread

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Nov 2012 04:52

India looks for Chinese technology for bullet trains

The Railways today joined hands with China for cooperation in developing high-speed rail corridors in selected routes in the country.

Besides, Railways will also seek Chinese expertise in carrying out heavy haulage in dedicated freight corridors and developing stations.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 27 Nov 2012 13:42

we are doomed only

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Nov 2012 10:28

^^^

Seriously doomed only with no hope of redemption.

The question is why such a requirement in the first place. Do we have loads of cash to burn, with only a moderate ROI. Why not improve the Air Travel in the first place.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2012 09:51

IIT-K and IR spar over the bio-toilet plan

Scientists of IIT-Kanpur have thrown the kitchen sink at a high-tech solution to a messy problem: How to keep the world's largest railway network clean and prevent corrosion of lines when train toilets unload waste directly on the tracks.

Bio-toilets developed by the Indian Railways and Defence Research and Development Organization have earned praise from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, but IIT scientists say they are neither environment-friendly nor suitable for trains.

But Indian Railways, which has for several years been searching for a way to prevent spreading human excreta across the countryside and stop track corrosion, which costs it350 crore a year, is betting on the bio-toilets.

Officials say they tested the system extensively and, since January 2011, installed 436 bio-toilets on eight trains. The railways plans to install bio-toilets in all new coaches at a cost of 500 crore.

The bio-toilet uses 'cold-active' bacteria collected from Antarctica and other low temperature areas to treat waste, turning it into water and gas that are disinfected before being expelled from the train.

IIT-Kanpur studied the toilets when they were put on trial three years ago. "There is no magic bacteria that can treat waste fast enough for use in a train toilet," said Vinod Tare, professor, environmental engineering and management, IIT-Kanpur.

IIT-Kanpur and the Research Design and Standards Organisation developed a zero discharge toilet that the railways tried but rejected.

"Such toilets are suitable for houses not for trains because a large number of people will need to use them in a short span of time."

Tare said the whole project was based on misinformation. "With every flush untreated waste is expelled through different levels and finally on the tracks," he said.

But railways officials insist that they have fixed the problems with the system. "We have eliminated the drawbacks that IIT-Kanpur pointed out," Railway Board executive director (mechanical engineering) Shailendra Singh said. |

"We are using stronger bacteria and garbage tossed into the commode will not affect the functioning of the toilet."

A mild swipe of the bacteria on the sides of the toilet box is enough to clean the toilet once, but the railways will load several kilograms of the bacteria in each toilet box.

"The toilets will save a lot of money because they will reduce corrosion of railway tracks and the undercarriage of coaches need not need to be replaced often," said a senior official with Southern Railway, which operates the Chennai-Guwahati Express, which uses bio-toilets.

"We found more than 5 kg of gutka sachets when a box was opened during an overhaul," he said. "The garbage did not affect the bacteria and there was no odour."
{Indian public have a knack of defeating anything. If this toilet withstood that assault, it is remarkable}
The technology is effective, official said, but passengers will have to cooperate with the railways and display discipline akin to that expected of aircraft passengers. A page on bio-toilets posted on Indian Railways' website says passengers are expected not to use the toilet pan as a garbage bin.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 29 Nov 2012 16:13

Stonger bacteria -- Bacteria on steroids!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Nov 2012 20:37

but, it could be some strain that given condition or food, it doubles up faster -linear.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 01 Dec 2012 10:53

The railways have turned out a miracle almost stealthily.

IRCTC have opened a new air port style lounge @ NDLS station at the Ajmeri gate side (platform 16). I am transiting through NDLS right now and was trying to find a way to kill a 6 hour wait tossing up between going to Rajiv Chowk Cafe Coffee Day or numbing myself for 6 hours in the railway waiting room with the smell of un-flushed toilets. Ginger Yatri Niwas, the usual suspect for day use is full.

A week ago I had noticed a sign @ NDLS that an Executive Lounge was opening soon. I found out the location of the lounge today by asking TTE's. It is very poorly sign posted but once in it is superb.

Pay 300 (+ 50 refundable security deposit) for 3 hours. This includes:

- 1 meal coupon. Only snack food (samosa's, veg and non veg sandwiches and the like)
- unlimited hot beverages
- free access to wifi for 3 hours
- storing and handling all your baggage means freedom from the rude "clock"

room staff.
- Train running status board (location could be better)
- selection of newspapers and magazines to read
- a small convenience and snack shop

Additional hours are charged at Rs 175.

Entrance is access controlled via a swipe card and you can come and go as you please for the duration of your stay.

A hot shower with fresh towels and toiletries for an extra Rs. 175.

The facility is spread over 2 floors with the upper floors having 4 full length almost lie flat leather recliners. The entire premises is very swank with contemporary colour co-ordinated interiors, furnishings that would rival any lounge in a 5 star hotel. Wall to wall carpeting throughout (Hope they use vacuum cleaners and not brooms to clean)

Service is through a smart reception and liveried wait staff. Food is self service.

Photos

It's a great start but as with things in India, lets hope the premises and services don't deteriorate rapidly over time.

The windows fronting the street are single glazed so street noise is quite a problem as I type. Toilet finish is iffy. I predict its going to fall apart and look like standard IR toilets in quick time. There was liquid soap but the toilet paper holder and paper napkin containers were empty.

Mercifully, the flush worked.

The facility is slated to be officially inaugurated next week but is already open to the public.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Dec 2012 13:09

Train timings have become much better recently. For journeys up to 600 km, there is no or very little delay. Don't know for longer journeys as I haven't been on one.
Earlier 2 out of 3 announcements on a station used to be of delays in a trains arrival or departure. Now it's much rarer. How did that happen ?

People who will pay to use that lounge are expected to be better behaved than rest. Only trouble will come from the retarded relatives and friends of the railway staff.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 01 Dec 2012 18:06

Those pics look a lot better than even the Mumbai airport lounges from a few years ago. Way to go for other busy stations.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Dec 2012 19:19

they look like coffee day lounges. for Rs300 you would get may 3 cold coffee (without cream) one after another and linger there, but no luggage storage and no option of shower etc. no recliners either.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 Dec 2012 20:05

rahulm wrote:IRCTC have opened a new air port style lounge @ NDLS station at the Ajmeri gate side (platform 16).

Railways, IMHO has much more to do than these knee-jerk reactions. The system if you ask me is now pretty much becoming a dinosaur. During the past two weeks, three incidents which caught my attention
1. An A/C coach in a train catches fire. One person killed.
2. In Alleppey Station, Kerala a passenger coach gets ripped of its "bogie" (the huge contraption which houses the wheels, and where the coach frame is mounted). Luckily no passenger seriously injured.
3. Two days back passengers of a Kerala bound express train pulled the chain to stop the train at Kasaragode. Reason for the past 1 1/2 days most of the coaches were not having water for the toilets etc. People had complained repeatedly, but no action was taken. Finally water was promised at Kankanadi Jn. There the train was asked to rush ahead, as a senior railway official was on the train and he would miss his "Inspection Car" etc. which was attached to another train some where down the line.

So the maintenance, cleanliness & hygiene of the trains is pathetic to say the bare minimum. Having a launch at NDLS, from where the very same passengers in an hour two would have to board a train to see IR's hospitality in action, may not be of any use at all. With more better roads, cheaper air fares and people having some free money to spare, IR would not be able to go on like this for ever.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 Dec 2012 05:32

er. sachin-saar, the swanky new lounge is a much needed new benchmark for IR's customer side interface. So coupling them with the three incidents you mentioned is counter productive and will end up in neither good lounges nor safety.

That said, there is a flip side with this new lounge, that has something to do with politics and unions. IR needs to privatize the concessionaire/operator part of railway stations and move into backbone management (like what AAI does for the privatized airport terminals - ATC, security oversight, safety etc). If they can manage concessionaire agreements with private parties for running the stations, a lot of the customer side things will take care of itself. But with this new lounge, the old babu-union types will say "see! we too can do as good a job as private folks. privatization is not needed" and stonewall further efforts. It is a different matter whether they can run 100s of such lounges etc. But the political side will take their side, due to union play.

btw, that wheel-assembly separation inciden (#2 in your list) t is very scary from what I hear: rust

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Dec 2012 08:27

Is that lounge profitable to the railways? Are there enough paying customers. If not its hard to see what the point is.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Dec 2012 09:06

Probably its useful to netas from up and bihar who travel rajdhani exp due to lack of air connectivity options.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Dec 2012 09:56

hnair wrote: IR needs to privatize the concessionaire/operator part of railway stations and move into backbone management (like what AAI does for the privatized airport terminals - ATC, security oversight, safety etc).

Agree with you. IR needs to a total over-haul if it needs to be in the business. Or else it would go the Amtrack (or the US Railway system) where the road transport just took over. IR would then would be a true blue "poor man's transport" with every system remaining equally poor.

btw, that wheel-assembly separation inciden (#2 in your list) t is very scary from what I hear: rust

It is a sad truth that Kerala gets the most shoddy treatment when it comes to coaches etc. Routinely the state get old coaches. I dont know the truth but the general refrain is that good coaches first goto the Northern States, then it reaches Southern Railway and the worst among the lot land up in Kerala

. If I get it right from the news papers, Kerala based passenger trains goes for their annual over-haul to a maintenance outside Kerala. And when it comes back from there, it would be a different rake alltogether.

Kerala was alloted three MEMU trains last year. Not even one is running. Two have reached Arakkonam Shed, in Chennai and lying there. The Kerala based railway divisions (TVC and PGT) are also not much bothered. Politicians are also in the same boat. It is only when some minor incident occurs, that the media highlights it and then there is some rush to get better trains. I guess the MEMU trains are now coming in, with a plan that they would get overhauled at the workshops started at PGT and Kollam.

Singha wrote:Probably its useful to netas from up and bihar who travel rajdhani exp due to lack of air connectivity options.

+1. And soon the aam aadmi will find it tough to get even a seat there, since it is all abound with VIPs.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Dec 2012 10:35

Yes. The treatment of SR on the whole is quite shoddy. Unfotunately there is a logic to it. SR is loss making and has been so for a long time due to low freight traffic.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 Dec 2012 11:06

Theo_Fidel wrote:The treatment of SR on the whole is quite shoddy. Unfotunately there is a logic to it. SR is loss making and has been so for a long time due to low freight traffic.

But how about the passenger revenue? SR may be one of those railway zones where people do take a ticket to travel etc. So here people pay the full ticket fare to travel in junk coaches

. If profitability via freight charges is the way to decide where good passenger coaches to go then Northern parts of India would get a very huge benefit. No wonder the logic of hamara sarkaar, hamara ghadi logic is in prevalence there

.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Dec 2012 11:24

The problem is IR needs to have better fares from the public and more efficiency from Freight. the Admin is in a mess inspite of Magical wand Lallu creating a miracle from IR>

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 04 Dec 2012 19:53

I have heard from some of my north indian colleagues that the road network is comparitively much better in the South compared to the North. So in the North, more people depend on railways to get to their destination faster instead of going by road.

Now, I don't know if that is because roads in the South were developed faster due to absense of rail network or the opposite in North. What I do know is that Karnataka had one of the lowest railway networks per capita, and had even lesser share of broad guage networks till Jaffer Sharief became the railways minister. He was responsible for upgrading lots of networks in Karnataka to broad guage.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Dec 2012 22:44

So break up IR into zonal railways should be what we need to chase after. Why is IR needs to be managed and federated entirely from the center?

btw, gujarat highways are much better than SI.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 05 Dec 2012 04:25

IRS be slowly absorbed into IES cadre and made only accountable for only technical matters. These brit-era proliferation of services like IRS, revenue, postal etc makes no sense with modern communications and networking tools and just causes a lot of Sir Humphry Applebee types to thrive. These folks cannot think of the opportunities in leasing out prime railway land to mixed-use realty, in return for stellar employee housing, passenger facilities, office spaces etc, as well as extra money for backbone related things. The returns would be phenomenal, if run by a transparent publicly listed private enterprise. These could be chugged into the safety and capacity augmentation areas

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2012 07:40

SR always gets used coaches from North & West. There are very few trains that have LHB coaches. The below news item is another proof.
Two Duranto trains may start zipping next week

On the flip side, modern LHB coaches have not been provided for these trains. The Duronto services to Madurai and Thiruvananthapuram will have coaches previously used on the Delhi-Mumbai Rajdhani trains, the sources say.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2012 07:46

putnanja wrote:I have heard from some of my north indian colleagues that the road network is comparitively much better in the South compared to the North. So in the North, more people depend on railways to get to their destination faster instead of going by road.

Now, I don't know if that is because roads in the South were developed faster due to absense of rail network or the opposite in North. What I do know is that Karnataka had one of the lowest railway networks per capita, and had even lesser share of broad guage networks till Jaffer Sharief became the railways minister. He was responsible for upgrading lots of networks in Karnataka to broad guage.

putnanja, South India was the last to be converted from metre gauge to broad gauge. There are still sections in SR (at least) where gauge conversion is not over.

As for roads, I can speak for TN. Yes, the road infrastricture was good but, before the advent of the NHAI, almost all those roads were state highways. Even today, most state highways are well maintained in TN. But, that is no compensation for lack of central investments in railway infrastructure.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Dec 2012 09:00

Madurai Jn gets CCTV Network

I am not cynical; but, I am sure that most of the equipment would be disused and under repair within a couple of months. As generally a meagre (or no) amount is allocated for maintenance after the installation of new equipment, they cannot be repaired and soon they would be forgotten.

A modern closed circuit television network with 28 cameras and a parcel x-ray scanner were inaugurated as part of the Integrated Security System (ISS) at Madurai railway junction on Wednesday. . . Under-vehicle scanning system to monitor and record under carriage images of vehicles in motion, driver image capturing and vehicle number plate recognition system and advanced equipment for bomb detection and disposal squad would be introduced later as part of the ISS.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Dec 2012 13:32

SSridhar wrote:As for roads, I can speak for TN. Yes, the road infrastricture was good but, before the advent of the NHAI, almost all those roads were state highways. Even today, most state highways are well maintained in TN. But, that is no compensation for lack of central investments in railway infrastructure.

+1. I am a hard-core railway fan, but during the last two years I have pretty much stopped travelling by train. My trips mainly being to various places in the "Commie paradise", it has pretty much become a car trip. Which ever route I take, 70% of the roads are in TN and I see much much better standards out there (when compared to KA and "Commie paradise"). Going by the NHAI roads is a breeze, and now lots of places for food (and clean toilets) available. Going through the state highways is also not a harrowing experience.

On the other hand train journey itself starts with the harrowing experience of trying to book tickets via IRCTC.COM

. Then if that succeeds, there is also a bit of a bus commute required to arrive at the train platforms. The coaches look pathetic, and now it is certain that there would W/L passengers who would come and partially occupy your seat. No one is there to chuck them out. And less said about the food quality, the better. Only postive factor is the dirt cheap ticket cost.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Dec 2012 22:00

They need to seriously think about connection alive from million requests at a time at irctc.com. they have architected the system poor, in terms of scalability and performance.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 07 Dec 2012 04:02

Sachin wrote: On the other hand train journey itself starts with the harrowing experience of trying to book tickets via IRCTC.COM . Then if that succeeds, there is also a bit of a bus commute required to arrive at the train platforms. The coaches look pathetic, and now it is certain that there would W/L passengers who would come and partially occupy your seat. No one is there to chuck them out. And less said about the food quality, the better. Only positive factor is the dirt cheap ticket cost.

Isn't that the main problem though? IR cannot provide any better amenities if they keep charging these dirt cheap costs, which if I'm not mistaken have remained low through many years of high inflation. This cannot be sustained without incurring huge losses, which IR has been. I am of course talking on a nationwide basis, not just SR, which is treated as a step-child by bankrupt parents.

saip · Post by **saip** » 07 Dec 2012 04:24

I think so too. Railways cannot and should not operate with the business model subsidizing the passengers from the revenues from freight hauling. Both should be run as separate profit centers. I am sure there are people willing to pay double the fare if facilities are improved and made world class. There is no reason to have dozens of discounts like discounts for farmers, industrial workers (who else is left?) and probably world's first -- discount for Thalassemia patients!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Dec 2012 04:26

so, what is that chippanda nation helping us setup high speed trains.. really really scary stuff!.. especially in the scam age. privatizing of IRs should be beneficial in the long run.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Dec 2012 07:49

Kashmir rail by 2017 end, cost overrun Rs. 5500 Crores

The Government on Thursday said its ambitious Kashmir rail plan had the largest cost overrun of Rs 5,500 crore among those rail projects that have been delayed by more than a decade.

The Udhampur-Srinagar-Baramulla rail line, which was to be commissioned by March 2001 at a cost of 2,500 crore, would now be completed by December 2017 at Rs 8,000 crore, the Minister of State for Statistics and Programme Implementation, Srikant Kumar Jena, said in a written reply to the Lok Sabha.

As on September 1 this year, the Bankura-Damodar rail project would also have cost overrun of Rs 1,300.84 crore. It was to be completed by March, 2005 at the cost of Rs 111.90 crore.

But now it would be commissioned by June, 2016 at a cost of Rs 1,412.74 crore, the statement added.

Tamluk Digha line doubling would have cost overrun of 792.44 crore and will be completed by June, 2016. The project was envisaged to be commissioned in June 2005 at a cost of Rs 293.97 crore.

Amravati-Narkher rail project will have cost overrun of Rs 428.05 crore and would be completed by March 2011. It was to be commissioned in June, 1999, at a cost of Rs 120.90 crore.

Other such projects include Lalitpur-Satna-Rewa-Singruli, Lanjhgarh-Junagarh and freight operations information system.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 07 Dec 2012 09:52

nachiket wrote:Isn't that the main problem though? IR cannot provide any better amenities if they keep charging these dirt cheap costs, which if I'm not mistaken have remained low through many years of high inflation.

Personally I feel that the fare revision should happen. This scheme of tickets kept cheap so that poor people can travel at some point would backfire. To be very honest at least 70% of the passengers in the routes which I travel can really afford to pay at least Rs.1500/- for a one-way ticket for two people. How did I figure it out? There are folks who prefer Volvo buses when they dont get train tickets. Volvo buses charge nearly 700 to 800/person, and that too for sitting accomodation. So IR should come up with a fare structure, which is commensurate of the times. Increase the fares, but along with that increase safety aspects and better comforts as well. There would be people to pay that money. And trains can also have coaches which cost less, but same with the comforts provided.

IR can learn a few lessons from Karnataka SRTC on how they manage the fleet. They have got buses which cater to every category of travellers.

BTW, I read that a committee is getting readied to discuss and decide on the IR fare structure. I guess this would involve folks from all political outfits. Let us hope that these people have some thing inside their heads, and can pull up the IR from the sad state which it is in now.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 07 Dec 2012 10:14

Sachin wrote: BTW, I read that a committee is getting readied to discuss and decide on the IR fare structure. I guess this would involve folks from all political outfits. Let us hope that these people have some thing inside their heads, and can pull up the IR from the sad state which it is in now.

The problem is that no Railway minister is willing to risk his/her neck to announce this unpopular but extremely necessary move. They will forever be remembered as the minister who increased fares for poor train travelers. It will be seen as political suicide.

In any case, the next 2 budgets will be too close to the elections and increasing fares will be strictly forbidden by the UPA high command.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Dec 2012 10:20

Someone should convince UPA leadership that thanks to the benefits of cash transfer scheme, a 35% hike in railway fares stagerred over a year will not have an impact on votes- roughly to compensate of 3% a year for 10 years, plus interest for lost revenue. Thats what it takes to make the railways healthy atleast in 4 years time.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 09 Dec 2012 03:25

A Startling Look At Commuting With 1.2 Billion People

World class travel photographer Steve McCurry, noted for his magnificent imagery (he’s won more photographic awards than we can count) & handling his subjects with finesse (remember this Afghan Girl photo? Yep that was him.) traveled to India to capture the daily routine of the average everyday commuter. A journey & unique experience far beyond the realities of train stations in the developed world.

He’s simply titled the series ‘Trains’ but as you’re about to see, his images are anything but simple. In fact, they’re quite the opposite, a startling look at life beyond the sanitized Western world and into one of the earth’s most complex & fascinating cultures.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Dec 2012 03:49

Nice. It actually defines.
We actually have no boundaries limited by the system. Where as TFTA economies have system defined culture. Our culture is more organic. And the reason we have problems to come up with a set of requirements for our own use.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 09 Dec 2012 05:10

The event is surely on a non electrified track even though the picture is electrifying as in exhilarating to watch

The upper quadrant signal system and the lack of electric poles does permit the maneuver by the bearers
( of tea cup) burden
I am guessing the tea has been already consumed by a sahib or GM of railways and of circa 1980s

I get a feeling that it is TS Pakistani railways

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 09 Dec 2012 05:16

Kashmir rail by 2017-end, cost overrun Rs 5,500 cr

As long as it is cost over runs some one is benefitting only when people are run over by railways on roadways it is side ways and dangerous

For context urban slang

Sideways
The act, or art of getting sideways, also commonly reffered to as "getting beyond horizontal", is an extreme case of intoxication where one is incapable of standing upright in a vertical manner, thus the only other option being "horizontal" or "sideways".

In this state one is subject to numerous physical mishaps but also reaches and experiences the metal state of Euphoria.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 09 Dec 2012 06:48

I like train travel but it has not been all that good the last few times. One of the most enjoyable was a few years back when tatkal system was not being abused. I went from kannur all the way to delhi train-hopping. It was fun on konkan railway, to mumbai, through gujarat and into rajasthan. And then to Delhi.

Recently took a special - it was special alright. The train kept getting delayed and all the promises of the special - 1st class AC (this time I took that for experience), pantry car, on time arrival were not kept. The train reached 16 hours late. It was puja special from delhi to guwahati. Maybe one should not buy tickets in any specials. The coaches were new and clean though.

Regarding SR - well, when I was in B'lore none of my friends ever wanted to travel by train since the distances were small and road trip was always going to be faster. I still took the train sometimes - say to M'lore overnight. By bus it was only 8 hrs iirc. The distances across the northern plains are much more and train travel works out better.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Dec 2012 22:43

Vestibules are must!

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 09 Dec 2012 22:52

Indian railways rock. We transport more people * km every year and at the lowest cost than any other railway system.

I went to Jaipur this week. While going from NCR took the bus. HELL. Traffic jams, bad people on the bus, rustic experience. 7 hours from iffco chowk to sindhi camp.

Return journey was by the double decker train . HEAVEN. 3.5 hours. Jaipur to NCR. smooth ride. slept all the way. fantastic!