Managing Chinese Threat

[SSridhar]

Media needs to more accurately reflect ties: SS Menon

National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon has said the media needed to more “accurately reflect” the reality of India-China relations rather than “manufacture” stories, a day after Navy Chief Admiral D.K. Joshi said the Indian Navy was prepared to go to the South China Sea to protect India’s economic interests.

Mr. Menon, who on Tuesday wrapped up a two-day visit to China for wide-ranging talks on the boundary and strategic issues, said the media needed to introspect on its credibility and ask “whether you are accurately reflecting the reality or whether you are just generating another story and another story and another story.”

In a response to questions at a briefing on Monday, Admiral Joshi said the Indian Navy was “prepared” to go to the South China Sea to protect Indian interests. ONGC Videsh is now involved in three oil exploration blocks in the South China Sea, whose waters and islands are claimed by China and several other countries.

Asked about the comment, Mr. Menon said: “First, you [the media] ask [the Navy Chief] if you can operate anywhere, and he says wherever. Where ever Indian interests are? Yes, wherever Indian interests are. So that means South China Sea also? Yes. So the end result is, you write a story saying the Navy Chief says he will operate in the South China Sea.”

“Now that is stretching the truth… That is not what he started out saying,” Mr. Menon said.

“When you look at the range of India-China engagement… the fact at how peaceful that border is… the fact that we have made progress even on the boundary settlement discussions… the kind of congruence we have on several international issues and the way we work together on it, then you get a more balanced picture of the relationship, of its potential, for us and, for them, for the region, for the world, that it can actually do good together,” Mr. Menon said.

Mr. Menon said the Chinese side did not raise the issue in Tuesday’s talks. “The Chinese also know how these things happen. They recognise the media plays a role. In the past they have complained about the role that the media has played,” he said.

The recent spat between both countries on passports also did not figure in the discussions. China had angered several of its neighbours after including a map in the newly-issued passports, displaying Aksai Chin, Arunachal Pradesh and the South China Sea as Chinese territory. India responded by issuing new visas in its Embassy here that displayed an Indian map with the borders as seen by India.

That China had appeared to quietly accept the visas had suggested the row had blown over, Indian officials said.

“There were no discussions on the passport issue,” Mr. Menon said. “They have always published their maps on their documents, we have always published our map on our documents.”

[SSridhar]

China warns India against South China Sea oil exploration - Ananth Krishnan, The Hindu

China has said that it “opposes any unilateral energy exploration” in the South China Sea, in response to Monday’s statement by Navy Chief Admiral D.K. Joshi saying that the Indian Navy was prepared to protect its interests and deploy its forces in the contested waters.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hong Lei said China “hopes relevant countries respect China’s sovereignty and national interests”, when asked at a regular press briefing about Admiral Joshi’s comments.

“China opposes any unilateral energy exploration and development activities in the disputed areas in the South China Sea,” he was quoted as saying by the Communist Party-run Global Times newspaper.

China, he said, hoped “relevant countries” respect its “sovereignty and national interests” and support “the efforts of countries within the region to resolve disputes through bilateral negotiations”.

Admiral Joshi had said in response to questions at a press briefing on Monday that the Indian Navy was “prepared” to go to the South China Sea to protect Indian interests. ONGC Videsh is currently involved in three oil exploration blocks off Vietnam in the South China Sea, whose waters and islands are contested by China, Vietnam and several other countries.

On Tuesday, National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, who was in Beijing on a two-day visit, played down the remarks, saying that the issue did not figure during his talks with the Chinese leadership. Mr. Menon said the media had “manufactured” a story by getting the Navy Chief to comment on the matter, adding that the Chinese side recognised that “the media plays a role”.

In recent weeks and months, a number of commentaries in the Chinese State-run media have debated India’s role in the United States move to “pivot” to Asia and strengthen its presence in the region, against the backdrop of resurfacing territorial disputes between China and a number of its neighbours, including Vietnam and the Philippines.

“The close historical and religious ties between India and Southeast Asian nations give India the advantage in asserting its role in the region,” Zhuang Guotu, head of the Center for Southeast Asian Studies at Xiamen University, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

“As for China,” he said, “India poses far less of a threat than the U.S. and Japan, because what India can offer to Southeast Asian nations is much less than what the U.S. and Japan can offer”.

“The real threat posed by India to China is the military cooperation between India and Vietnam,” added Du Jifeng, a scholar at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. “Moreover, India is now controlling several Indian Ocean islands at the entrance of the Malacca Strait, an international energy channel that sees 80 per cent of Chinese oil imports passing by every year.”

[SSridhar]

India forgets that China cannot be trusted - G. Parthasarathy, The BusinessLine

One cannot but be surprised by the statement of the National Security Advisor (NSA) Shivshankar Menon brushing aside the serious implications of Chinese actions, while voicing optimism that “we are in the process of agreeing on a framework to settle the boundary”.

Have we forgotten that after agreeing to delineate the Line of Actual Control, the Chinese backed off on the entire process?

In 2005, Premier Wen Jiabao agreed that “in reaching a border settlement, the two sides shall safeguard due interests of their settled populations in border areas”. {That was because the CPC passed the Anti-Seccession Law in c. 2005. 23. Whether it is the border dispute with India or the question of Taiwan, Tibet or Uyghur or the delineation of South & East China Seas, the Chinese leaders cannot compromise on their unilateral position because they would otherwise risk their lives in view of the Anti-Secession Law of 2005. It is a capital offence to agree to a compromise on perceived Chinese sovereignty.}

This clearly signalled that there was no question of transferring territories containing settled populations and addressed Indian concerns on Chinese claims to Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh. Within a year, however, China was laying claim not merely to Tawang, but the entire state of Arunachal Pradesh.

One can only conclude that the new “framework” the NSA spoke of to settle the boundary issue would be about as successful as the much-touted “Joint anti-Terror Mechanism” with Pakistan, which came apart with the 26/11 attacks.

Just a day before the NSA spoke, Army Chief General Bikram Singh described bilateral relations with China as “absolutely perfect” and added that mechanisms were now in place to solve any issues between the two countries. This was an astonishing comment, at a time when the army wants additional strike formations, apart from vastly improved communications on the border with China.

Was it because Singh feels the army is unlikely to get its needs fulfilled soon, and needs to sound conciliatory to the Chinese? Do the other two Service Chiefs and the Defence Minister share this optimism? All these issues need to be debated now that Parliament is in session.

INTERNAL RUMBLINGS

China can now be described as a “dynastic dictatorship,” after its 18th Party Congress. Outgoing leader Hu Jintao voiced concern at the growing dissatisfaction in China over political corruption.

The Party Congress had been preceded by the downfall of its rising star Bo Xilai, whose lavish and flamboyant lifestyle had led to the conviction of his wife for murdering a British businessman and revelations of the billions of dollars of assets that Bo and his family had acquired.

This was followed by a a well documented leak, quite evidently by Bo’s supporters, about ill-gotten wealth accumulated by Prime Minister Wen Jiabao and his family.

China’s worst kept secrets about dynastic politics in the Communist Party became public when it emerged that four of the seven members of its highest decision-making body, the Standing Committee of the Politburo, were “Princelings,” or descendants of first generation, Mao-era political leaders. Most “Princelings”, including Party Chief Xi Jinping, lead lavish life styles, with families having extensive business interests. The contradictions between having an open economy linked to foreign markets on the one hand and a one-party, authoritarian political structure perceived to be unresponsive to pubic grievances on the other, are coming to the forefront in China.

China will continue to seek new ways to further open up its economy and maintain a high growth rate. But the “Princelings” are unlikely to bring any changes in the basic authoritarian nature of the State apparatus. Tutored by Deng Xiao Ping, who was determined not to follow the glasnost and perestroika path of Gorbachev in the Soviet Union, the new dispensation will be averse to increasing democratisation.

TERRITORIAL AGGRESSION

With jingoistic propaganda, evidently to divert public opinion away from domestic issues like high level corruption, China is obviously in no mood to show any flexibility on its territorial claims along the Sino-Indian border. As Chinese passports are generally valid for ten years, there can logically be no change in China’s territorial claims in this period.

China will continue on its path of rapid military modernisation, combined with an assertive line on its maritime and land boundary claims.

China’s recent decision to depict the entire South China Sea, together with Arunachal Pradesh and parts of Ladakh as Chinese territory in maps on Chinese passports, has to be seen in the light of this growing Chinese readiness to use force and military coercion to enforce its territorial claims. One has recently witnessed aggressive Chinese postures resulting in a virtual naval takeover around the disputed Scarborough Shoal, claimed by the Philippines.

A similar aggressive approach has been taken on recent tensions with Japan, with Chinese naval vessels entering territorial waters, adjacent to the disputed Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands.

China has evidently been emboldened by the American assertion that while the US does have a stand on freedom and maintenance of peace and stability in the South China Sea, it “does not take sides in (maritime) disputes”.

ECONOMIC CONCERNS

New Delhi is now talking of getting superfast trains and rail equipment from China, at a time when there is growing concern at our over dependence on second rate Chinese power equipment.

There are also concerns about dangers to cyber security and communications infrastructure posed by imports from China. Should we not insist on co-production, together with transfer or technology, in such strategic sectors, with preference for cooperation with friendly countries like Japan, France and Germany?

[shiv]

No. I think it is necessary for us Indians to have our asses singed by Chinese trains. One we learn about their quality and get blamed for poor maintenance of junk equipment from China a few more Indians will come to their senses. Let me cross post something from the China Mil thread:

Chinese locomotives kaput N$36m down the rail

http://www.namibian.com.na/index.php?id ... no_cache=1

Four Chinese locomotives, which cost about N$36 million and arrived in Namibia five years ago, could be used for only 33 months and suffered 265 failures during that time from October 2004 until June 2007, Parliament was told yesterday.
“This translated into an availability rate of less than 40 per cent,” Works and Transport Minister Helmut Angula said in response to questions posed by Nora Schimming-Chase of the CoD.
“TransNamib grounded all these locomotives in June 2007 due to their poor performance and serious safety risks related to the braking system,” Angula added.
“The decision to buy them was economically justified, but due to a lack of a proper technical analysis of the Chinese manufacturer’s design and a lack of quality control, these locomotives were not suitable for the Namibian environment in which they had to operate.”
In response to Schimming-Chase’s question as to who would pay for these ‘white elephants’, Angula said that TransNamib and the Chinese company had agreed in 2005-06 that the Chinese would rebuild the four locomotives at a cost of US$260 000 (about N$2,6 million.) The Chinese train bought for the route from Windhoek to Ondangwa – the Omugulu GwoMbashe Star – was bought for US$2,3 million (about N$23 million), the Minister told the House.
It was originally intended as a shuttle train between Windhoek and the Hosea Kutako International Airport, but this never materialised.
The train was rerouted to the Windhoek-Walvis Bay route and from July 2006 to the northern route between Windhoek and Ondangwa and ran once a week.
“The Omugulu GwoMbashe Star (OGS) broke down in March 2007 with a broken gearbox casing. As this product was a one-off unit manufactured for TransNamib, such part had to be manufactured in China and arrived in September 2007,” according to Angula.
But the saga did not end there.
During the test run, “the complete gearbox disintegrated”, the Minister added.
Replacement parts arrived 15 months later, at the end of 2008. This time the repairs were completed and the test runs were successful.
“Since the end of 2008, the OGS is running but it does not go to the north,” Angula told the astonished MPs.
“Currently the OGS is catering mainly for business corporate functions and chartered trips.”
In the meantime, TransNamib is analysing the train routes in the country “to determine which route and rail service could best apply in order to utilise the OGS”.
Angula did not say why TransNamib did not do such a study before the OGS came into operation.

[SSridhar]

No. I think it is necessary for us Indians to have our asses singed by Chinese trains. One we learn about their quality and get blamed for poor maintenance of junk equipment from China a few more Indians will come to their senses. Let me cross post something from the China Mil thread:

Chinese locomotives kaput N$36m down the rail

http://www.namibian.com.na/index.php?id ... no_cache=1

Four Chinese locomotives, which cost about N$36 million and arrived in Namibia five years ago, could be used for only 33 months and suffered 265 failures during that time from October 2004 until June 2007, Parliament was told yesterday.

We have the experience of our Pakistani friends as well.

"Contrary to the tall claims of our Chinese friends, their engines were a total disaster. We ended up incurring a huge loss," a [Pakistani] railway official said.

Pakistan Railways purchased 69 completely built locomotive units from China under 2003 agreement. These are about 37% cheaper than the European locomotives but considered to be faulty. It is stated that 32 of these have already been scraped. Dong Fang Electric Corporation has been severely criticized for producing low quality locomotives.

A top Pakistani Railway official, accompanying President Asif Ali Zardari on a visit here, told his Chinese counterpart that the 69 rail engines it brought from China did not meet the requirements of Pakistan railways.

While Pakistan has decided to buy 75 new rail engines and 200 railway bogies from China, General Manager Ashfaq Khattak told his counterpart yesterday that 60 rail engines supplied by China earlier were not up to the standards, Pakistan's official news agency APP reported.

Khattak said the Chinese company assured him that the new engines would meet the quality standards of Pakistan Railways, it said.

The issue of substandard rail engines had created a furore in Pakistan recently.

According to Pakistani media reports in May, the then General Manager Pakistan Railways, Shahid Ahmad, had said that the management had decided to drop the idea of acquiring 75 locomotives from the Chinese company as 32 previously supplied engines out of 69 had to be phased out after they became unserviceable.

The fresh order of 75 locomotives came after President Zardari himself intervened and forced the Railways to oblige the Chinese suppliers despite large-scale opposition within the Railways Ministry, reports said.

[abhishek_sharma]

Map of discontent: Inder Malhotra

On November 24, there appeared the disturbing news that China had started a fresh row by including in its e-passports a map showing Arunachal Pradesh and Aksai Chin as parts of Chinese territory. In its calibrated response to the provocation, India stamped its visas on Chinese passports together with an outline of the Indian map. At the same time, the embassy in Beijing quietly made a demarche to the Chinese government.

By a strange coincidence, the news of the map row in this country’s newspapers was accompanied by a statement from the army chief, General Bikram Singh, to the effect that relations with China were “absolutely perfect”. Not only was this appraisal contrary to the ground reality but it also raised a troubling question. While it is the right, indeed, the duty of the service chiefs to candidly discuss with the government their assessment of the challenges, or the lack thereof, to national security, shouldn’t they leave public pronouncements on the state of ties with other powers to political leaders?

There was another headline in the newspapers that proclaimed: “India looks to China to put high-speed trains on track”. This was one of the proposals on the agenda of the bilateral Strategic Economic Dialogue in Delhi. As expected, both sides expressed satisfaction with their “joint strategy” for development and cooperation. Isn’t this a permanent feature of the complex of India-China relations? Even when China asserts its claims on Arunachal Pradesh aggressively, economic relations between the two countries flourish. China is already India’s largest trading partner, and the Delhi meeting reaffirmed the resolve to increase this trade from $74 billion to $100 billion in five years.

Both Indian and Chinese governments seem to have decided to play down the maps row. The national security advisor (NSA), Shivshankar Menon, was the first to do so, presumably because he was due to leave for Beijing for just one more meeting with his opposite number, state councillor Dai Bingguo, who as China’s special representative for the border talks with India, has already had 15 rounds of negotiations with three successive Indian counterparts, and is now due to retire in March. Some of the NSA’s remarks implied that his last-ditch conversation with Dai might pave the way for a settlement of the vexed border issue and have drawn flak.

Beijing blandly stated that “too much should not be read into its e-passports”. The official spokesman of the Chinese foreign ministry wanted the world to believe that the aim of China’s new electronic passports was “to strengthen its technological abilities”.

It is against this backdrop that the mother of all headlines on the border issue — ‘India, China long way from border solution’ (IE, December 2) — appeared, ironically, on the day Menon left for the Chinese capital. Nobody should dismiss this news-item as “speculative”. It is based on a “joint status report of the 15 rounds of special representatives” over the last nine years.

There is a wide gulf not only in the two sides’ basic positions but also in their interpretations of the minutes and agreements recorded during the talks in the joint status report. None of this should be a surprise to anyone who has carefully studied the course of border negotiations. The talks that began in 1981 were conducted first by secretaries, and then raised to the level of “working groups, headed by foreign secretaries”. When nothing was achieved for more than a decade, in 1993, and later in 1996, the two countries signed two agreements on maintaining “peace and tranquility” along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), which remains undefined because China went back on its promise to “clarify and confirm” it, and even reneged on its commitment to exchange maps between the two countries on their respective concepts on where the LAC lies.

The greatest disappointment is that the two sides now differ on what Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his counterpart, Wen Jiabao, agreed on in 2005 about the future of areas with settled populations while delineating the border under an overall agreement. The exact words documented are: “The two sides shall safeguard due interests of their settled populations in the border areas”. According to India, this means that “settled populations would not be disturbed”. China insists that safeguarding of interests does not mean recognising the status quo in Arunachal Pradesh, and that it can be done alongside any shift in territorial control. The talks that Menon has already held in Beijing are not going to change this stalemate. It is high time to recognise that China has no interest in settling the border issue because unending and sterile negotiations give it a useful lever to pressure India whenever needed.

The writer is a Delhi-based political commentator, [email protected]

[SSridhar]

Map of discontent: Inder Malhotra

It is high time to recognise that China has no interest in settling the border issue because unending and sterile negotiations give it a useful lever to pressure India whenever needed.

That is the bottom line. All this trade etc (which is one-way anyway and which is being used to add more pressure on us) are useless and will not help in changing the Chinese mindset. Trade as a tool to normalize relationship with TSP (to some extent) may even work, but it certainly will not work with PRC. In fact, the are using it to cause more harm to us.

[RajeshA]

Media needs to more accurately reflect ties: SS Menon

SS Menon needs to more honestly reflect ties: RajeshA

On the one hand we have his gibberish, and on the other we have a history of Tibet invasion, 1962 attack, historical revisionism by the Chinese, diplomatic and military pressure on the border, sponsorship of Naxalites and Maoists in India and Nepal, walking into PoK, nuclear proliferation to Pakistan, protection of Pakistan-sponsored terrorists in the UNSC and who knows how many missiles stationed in Tibet directed at Indian cities!

I think reality wins hands down over SS Menon's gibberish!

[SSridhar]

RajeshA, I thought G.Parthasartahy's op-ed, which I posted, was partly in response to this. He wrote

One cannot but be surprised by the statement of the National Security Advisor (NSA) Shivshankar Menon brushing aside the serious implications of Chinese actions, while voicing optimism that “we are in the process of agreeing on a framework to settle the boundary”.

[RajeshA]

SSridhar garu,

fully agree with G. Parthasarthy's Op-Ed. Had not read it earlier. Sorry!

[ramana]

Meanwhile Nightwatch writes:

LINK

China-India; China warned India to stop oil exploration in the South China Sea after the Indian Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Joshi, said he was prepared to send Indian naval ships there to protect its interests.


India's state oil company, ONGC, is exploring three oil blocks close to the disputed Spratly Islands - known as Nansha Islands in China - in partnership with the Vietnamese government, which claims sovereignty over the collection of 45 tiny islands and atolls, along with China, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines.


China told Vietnam on 6 December to stop unilateral oil exploration in disputed areas of the South China Sea and to not harass Chinese fishing boats, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman said.


Comment: The Chinese have now made clear that they intend to administer the South China Sea as territorial waters, just as they announced. In the Chinese view, the Vietnamese and Indians are lawbreakers and must be stopped and possibly punished.


The Indian Navy is more professional and combat capable than the Chinese, but it is based a long way from the South China Sea. China's warnings might persuade Indian political and naval authorities to adopt a more aggressive patrolling regime to contest Chinese claims and protect Indian investments, in support of all of the Southeast Asian nations.

China's ability to operate and protect its claims by using shore-based combat aircraft, however, is a caution for all naval powers.


Special Comment: A NightWatch bias is the judgment that the Indian armed forces are determined to avenge their humiliation by Chinese forces in the 1962 border war, however long it takes. A grudge match awaits, despite the passage of a half century. Both Indian and Chinese military leaders know it and expect it. Strategic leadership of Asia is at stake.

I got same sense with the IN folks. Another benefit is it won't lead to escalation as its a go around the PRC redlines.
At a minimum will lead to IN basing in Cam Ranh Bay.

[Singha]

Instead of sitting on its backside shivering at north korean antics, japan also needs to do its bit in that region. Or atleast offer military support via back channels to the asean in the south china sea disputes.

[RamaY]

If China is dynastic dictatorship, India is dynastic democracy. Both these systems have to be purged for real progress in Indo-china relationship.

I only hope that this purge happens in the form of an Indo-china war.

[vasu raya]

World trusts Indo-TSP rivalry so much that the Chinese have invested in TSP heavily without any qualms, however we seem to have uneasiness on the issue of ASEAN differences in the context of SCS, somehow we aren't totally convinced. Could that be a reason on why we don't supply mil hardware to any of these nations? then there is the risk of any technology or armament sharing reaching the Chinese.

In this context, can we understand on how US is managing or protecting its IP? they supply to their nemesis, the islamic nations yet seems secure about it. An example is AMRAAMs with TSP who usually share all scraps of technology they get their hands on with the Chinese.

DRDO's long term planning should take this aspect into account.

[D Roy]

hy we don't supply mil hardware to any of these nations

This is precisely what is changing now.

[vasu raya]

^^^

Good to know , looks like Afghans are making overtures as well on these lines, and it would help if we could guide them towards the Japanese outlook of self-defense post WW2 and arming them at those levels suitable for countering Taliban.

[shyamd]

China willing to settle boundary issue, boost ties

Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, December 09, 2012

With National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon and his Chinese counterpart Dai Bingguo recording the 18 points of bilateral agreement on the vexed border issue this week, Beijing has conveyed its readiness to India to move forward on settling the 3,488 kilometre of Line of Actual Control (LAC)

Top government sources said Menon during his meetings with Li Keqiang, ranking member of Poliburo Standing Committee and tipped to succeed Wen Jiabao as Premier of China in March 2013, and Wu Bangguo, chairman of National Peoples' Congress and member of the standing committee, was conveyed that new leadership under party general secretary and present vice president Xi Jinping wanted to positively engage India.

While the NSA was hosted by outgoing State Councillor Dai Bingguo in Beijing this week, he met Xi Jinping in November 2010.

Sources said while it is still not clear who is going to succeed Dai as Special Representative (SR) in the Indo-China Boundary dialogue in the new dispensation, top diplomat Wang Yi, presently heading Taiwan desk, or Wang Jia Rui, head of international liaison department, are the frontrunners for the job.

“Five out of seven members of apex standing committee in China have been to India and understand that the only way to move bilateral relations forward is to set aside the boundary dispute on a priority,” said a senior official.

With the two SRs summing up the boundary talks since 2003 in a document form, the Manmohan Singh government is going to take the Opposition parties into confidence soon before engaging the new Chinese leadership on finally resolving the boundary dispute.

The UPA approach is going to be similar to what Prime Minister Narasimha Rao did before signing the 1993 Peace and Tranquility Agreement with China with the then joint secretary Menon bringing all the Opposition leaders in loop beforehand.

Faced with a crisis with neighbours on South China Sea, Beijing has indicated that it wants to cement bilateral ties with both India and Russia in order to avoid any ganging up of forces against a rising China.

Sources said the new leadership has conveyed that it wants to dramatically improve relations with India in the next decade and understands New Delhi’s red lines on ties between Beijing and Islamabad.

“There is growing realisation in China that the political relations with India will not improve merely by increasing the bilateral trade to $100 billion. The new leadership wants to engage India as an autonomous stable power in the world,” said a senior official.

Secret warship base comes up on east coast

By SUJAN DUTTA | www.telegraphindia.com – Wed 5 Dec, 2012

New Delhi, Dec. 4: The Indian Navy is set to partially commission a secretive new strategic base on its east coast next year that will be the home port for its warships that sail to South East Asia, the South China Sea and the Pacific.
The Visakhapatnam-headquartered Eastern Naval Command, the hub for the navy's "Look East" policy, is adding warships and submarines to its fleet in numbers greater than berths available in which to dock them.

Yesterday, navy chief Admiral Devendra Kumar Joshi had said his force was also practising to deploy in waters that China claims in the South China Sea to protect India's oil interests off the coast of Vietnam. Reuters reported today that Vietnam, which allotted two blocks to India's ONGC Videsh Limited, has stepped up patrolling its waters in the South China Sea.
Ramkonda or Rambilli, a quiet suburban settlement on Andhra's craggy coastline about 50km south of the Eastern Naval Command headquartered in Visakhapatnam, is set to become the navy's largest infrastructure base when it is finally completed.

Spread over 20sqkm, it is called "Project Varsha". It is on the scale of "Project Seabird" at Karwar on the west coast (in north Karnataka). Like "Seabird" was designed to accommodate an aircraft carrier and de-congest Mumbai harbour, "Varsha" is said to have been conceived to unclog Vizag.

Work on the project began in 2005 to de-congest Vizag port, where the naval dockyards and the submarine base have run out of space. "Varsha" would also be located close to a large facility of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC).
When work on Project Varsha began, the Eastern Naval Command had 15 major warships. Now it has 46, including the nuclear-powered INS Chakra leased from Russia. India's homebuilt nuclear submarine, the INS Arihant, is also based in Vizag and is scheduled to go into trials early next year.

Three more Arihant-class submarines were being built at the Shipbuilding Centre (SBC) in Vizag's naval dockyards.
Project Varsha has been designed to contain within it berthing facilities for warships and submarines in a dockyard among hills. The location was chosen because the depth of the water would allow for the vessels to berth easily.
Varsha is easily the largest but by no means the only major naval project on the Bay of Bengal coast. This year, the navy commissioned INS Baaz, a naval air station at the southern tip of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands from where surveillance aircraft can fly over the Straits of Malacca.

The navy is also working on a naval air station in Calcutta that will have a squadron of unmanned aircraft. It is preparing to station its Boeing-made P8i maritime surveillance aircraft at INAS Rajoli in Tamil Nadu's Arakonnam. The site was chosen because the aircraft could fly from there over both India's eastern and western seaboards.

The number of warships, submarines and aircraft with the navy under its eastern command is marginally less than that under its western command. So far, the western command was the "sword arm" of the navy because of the threat perception from Pakistan.

The eastern command is now nearly there: it has 46 vessels compared to the west's 48. The assets in the Bay of Bengal are more "amphibious", meaning they are capable of operating on sea as well as on land.
Last month, the defence ministry authorised the Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyard to make two special operations vessels, a classified project.

[RamaY]

“There is growing realisation in China that the political relations with India will not improve merely by increasing the bilateral trade to $100 billion. The new leadership wants to engage India as an autonomous stable power in the world,” said a senior official.

The punditry in BRF needs a chanikiyan toilet now

[RajeshA]

We would be foolish to solve the boundary problem! Let it simmer! Tensions with China are good, because it keeps us on our toes! "Real peace" would push us only back militarily!

[vishvak]

It is not just tensions against China but preparedness against chameleon like enemies who are good at creating disputes out of thin air and keep terrorizing Indians directly or through proxy. Such barbarians do not even deserve an official declaration of war to offer even that legitimacy.

For our slow and corrupt system, we need to actually have more than average minimum.

[JohnTitor]

The man who threatened Kerjiwal's life is now threatening India. Not surprising.

India has to accept China's presence in 'exclusive' areas: Salman Khurshid

India will have to accept the "new reality" of China's presence in areas it considers exclusive as it converts the relationship into a "meaningful partnership", external affairs minister Salman Khurshid said on Monday, while stressing that greater collaboration between the two would define Asia's role in the 21st century.

As India and China move forward in "finding resolution to the issues, and in converting their relationship into a meaningful partnership, India will have to accept the new reality of China's presence in many areas that we consider an exclusive area for India and its friends", Khurshid said at the inaugural address of the annual convention of the Indian Association of International Studies.

The convention was titled Dawning of the Asian Century: Emerging Challenges before Theory and Practices of International Relations in India.

"The rules of the game will change, and China will add to the richness with its presence and participation in many areas(what richness? Cheap massproduced goods?)... A combination of their strengths is called for... I believe the real praise of India's foreign policy will come in being able to combine the strengths without targeting the aspirations of any one else in the world... providing greater collaboration between the two will define Asia's role in the 21st century," he said.

According to the minister, Indian Ocean Rim countries, or those countries with a coastline along the Indian Ocean, constitute a very important part of Asia and India "is a point of pivot".

He said many countries were "desperate" to have a closer link with the Indian Ocean, considering its importance in maritime and security issues, and China would "give its right arm to be as closely placed as India". "The pivot that India provides to the concept is the stepping stone for links" to other countries around it, said Khurshid.

In spite of the "changing balance between principles and pragmatism, India's approach to international relations - of enlightened self-interest has survived... an idea articulated by India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru", the minister added.

On Saarc, Khurshid said the bloc's eight nations "are emerging realities, and India can't expect a stand-alone or stand-still policy of countries".

He termed as "very sad" the fact that very few Indians were interested in international relations. He hoped that the two-day convention would help "excite the juices of an average Indian" towards foreign policy.

[Victor]

India to outpace China by 2030: US intelligence report

The report shows that India will surge ahead after 2020 even as China begins to wane or decelerate, mainly on account of demographic changes

[SSridhar]

Japan scrambles fighter jets after Chinese plane in disputed territory. Beijing says flight normal

Japan scrambled fighter jets on Thursday after a Chinese government plane entered for the first time what Japan considers its airspace over disputed islets in the East China Sea, escalating tension between Asia's two biggest economies.

Japan protested to China over the incident but China brushed that off saying the flight by the Chinese aircraft was "completely normal".

"Despite our repeated warnings, Chinese government ships have entered our territorial waters for three days in an row," Japanese chief Cabinet secretary Osama Fujimura told reporters.

"It is extremely regrettable that, on top of that, an intrusion into our airspace has been committed in this way," he said, adding that Japan had formally protested through diplomatic channels.

Japan's military scrambled eight F-15 fighter jets, the defence ministry said. Japanese officials later said the Chinese aircraft had left the area.

It was the first time a Chinese aircraft had intruded into Japan's airspace near the disputed islands, Japan defence ministry said.

Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda later instructed the government to be "all the more on guard", the Kyodo news agency reported.

China's state maritime agency said a marine surveillance plane had joined four Chinese vessels patrolling around the islands and the fleet had ordered Japanese boats to leave the area immediately.

"The Diaoyu islands and affiliated islands are part of China's inherent territory. China's flight over the islands is completely normal," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei told a briefing in Beijing.

Japanese analysts said it was a significant escalation. "This is serious ... intrusion into Japan's airspace is a very important step to erode Japan's effective control over the area," said Kazuya Sakamoto, a professor at Osaka University. "If China sends a military plane as a next step, that would really make Japan's control precarious."

Toshiyuki Shikata, a Teikyo University professor and a retired general, said the use of aircraft by both sides was significant.

"Something accidental is more likely to happen with planes than with ships," he said.

[member_20292]

I wonder if we could supply some weapons to the Japanese? maybe they would like the lca ....

[Chinmayanand]

I wonder if we could supply some weapons to the Japanese? maybe they would like the lca ....

First , let the LCA be ready.Secondly , Japan has better planes than LCA. Most importantly , it has to show the will to fight. All one can do is make Japan realise that it has beaten China before and it can beat it to pulp again provided it goes nuclear in a ballistic way. If it depends too much on US , it might get thrown under the China bus by the yanks.

[Christopher Sidor]

We would be foolish to solve the boundary problem! Let it simmer! Tensions with China are good, because it keeps us on our toes! "Real peace" would push us only back militarily!

Not only that this contraption called PRC is an artificial construct. It will go away just as all the other unnatural things disappear.
And let us not forget our border is settled as far as Tibet is concerned. Tibet recognizes the MacMohan Line.
Just as the Americans and certain Europeans never ever accepted the absorption of Estonia/Lithuania into Soviet union and were more than amply rewarded for their patience, we also need to be patience.

[ramana]

Managing the Chinese Threat.

Korean Unification is one counter.

[ShauryaT]

Managing the Chinese Threat.

Korean Unification is one counter.

How so? Korea minus the western influence is a Confucian cousin. Their traditional animosities have been with Japan. Korean unification may actually end up strengthening China, with a united Korea as a Chinese poodle? Korea was one of the few states to NOT be considered Mlecha by the middle kingdom.

[RajeshA]

In China the scope for violent insurgencies is great. They need to be supplied with small fire arms, rocket launchers, and all the rest and India and Myanmar should do it. Myanmar and Pakistan can be the conduits. The corruption in China along with a communist dictatorship which controls who can be corrupt and who not, is a zillion cubic meters of combustible natural gas waiting to go up in flames as soon as the economy slows down. Let a billion mutinies bloom.

The Chinese have been pumping arms around the world without qualms. They should now get the returns with interest.

[wong]

^^^^^

Where are Indians going to get the small arms and cartridges to supply Chinese "insurgents" ?? H&K or FNH?? LOL. After all, the Chinese insurgents don't want the INSAS. CIA already tried with the Tibetans for 20 years and failed miserably. The US can make small arms. Can you ?

Supply your own Indian army first with that $1,000+ INSAS (for reference a USGI Colt M4 is $500) and cartridges first. Then worry about China.

[kish]

Alarmed Japanese voters head to polls as threat of conflict with China looms

As eight fighter jets are scrambled over disputed islands, nationalist rhetoric grows louder

Japan scrambled eight F-15 fighter jets today after a Chinese government plane was reportedly spotted over territory disputed by both sides. The incursion, the latest by China over a small group of goat-infested islands they call the Diaoyu (Senkaku in Japan), may push Japanese voters further into the arms of right-wing candidates who want the nation to face down its increasingly powerful neighbour

[RajeshA]

^^^^^

Where are Indians going to get the small arms and cartridges to supply Chinese "insurgents" ?? H&K or FNH?? LOL. After all, the Chinese insurgents don't want the INSAS. CIA already tried with the Tibetans for 20 years and failed miserably. The US can make small arms. Can you ?

Supply your own Indian army first with that $1,000+ INSAS (for reference a USGI Colt M4 is $500) and cartridges first. Then worry about China.

I wanted to check if the Red Commies are watching!

[member_22872]

Where are Indians going to get the small arms and cartridges to supply Chinese "insurgents" ??

Oh, don't worry about that, we will find ways, if we don't have even for argument sake, we will beg, borrow or steal, where there is will, there is a way. But thanks for worrying for us though.

[kish]

^^^^^

Where are Indians going to get the small arms and cartridges to supply Chinese "insurgents" ?? H&K or FNH?? LOL. After all, the Chinese insurgents don't want the INSAS. CIA already tried with the Tibetans for 20 years and failed miserably. The US can make small arms. Can you ?

Supply your own Indian army first with that $1,000+ INSAS (for reference a USGI Colt M4 is $500) and cartridges first. Then worry about China.

X-Post

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children

A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.

The attack happened at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province.

Police arrested a 36-year-old local man at the scene.

This is a third or fourth time such a incident is happening in China. Whenever somebody is enraged by the communist government, they kill school children.

Looks like Chinese themselves have to worry about "managing chinese threat"

[kish]

Japan Mulls Aerial Patrols to Protect Disputed Islands

Japan says it intends to strengthen its aerial surveillance, hoping to prevent a repeat of an unprecedented incident Thursday when a Chinese government plane flew near disputed isles in the East China Sea.

The Japanese Air Self Defense Force scrambled eight F-15 fighter jets after a coast guard vessel radioed that a Chinese aircraft was flying just south of the largest disputed island.

Looking at the map, it seems like a strategic provocation. Sustained patrol so far away from mainland japan is difficult.

[JE Menon]

>>>A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.

Has anyone checked to verify whether they've set up a fake US Postal Service in china?

[kish]

>>>A man with a knife has wounded 22 children - at least two of them seriously - and an adult at a primary school in central China.

Has anyone checked to verify whether they've set up a fake US Postal Service in china?

Boisterously merry.

[Victor]

Link

[ShauryaT]

Important seminar on 1962, lessons and way forward, participants were VP Malik, AY Tipnis, G. Parthasarathy and B. Karnad amongst others.

Part One http://www.adrive.com/public/ET74vh/Ind ... v2012A.mpg

Part Two http://www.adrive.com/public/2vycDZ/Ind ... v2012B.mpg
Part Three http://www.adrive.com/public/3zAQFr/Ind ... v2012C.mpg
Part Four http://www.adrive.com/public/DYR7g7/Ind ... v2012D.mpg

Part Five http://www.adrive.com/public/F3JkAK/Ind ... v2012E.mpg
Part Six http://www.adrive.com/public/bNEJwd/Ind ... v2012F.mpg
Part Seven http://www.adrive.com/public/czRFwj/Ind ... v2012G.mpg

[ShauryaT]

REPORT ON NATIONAL SEMINAR ON INDIA-CHINA RELATIONSHIP: REMEMBERING THE PAST TO LOOK INTO THE FUTURE

Keynote Address- His Excellency Gen JJ Singh, PVSM, AVSM, VSM, Governor of Arunachal Pradesh
Opening Remarks by Chairperson – Gen VP Malik, PVSM, AVSM (Retd), former COAS, Indian Army
A brief of the 1962 Conflict and its Aftermath: Maj Gen Ashok Kalyan Verma, AVSM, (Retd)
The Battle of Namka Chu: Lt. Gen Ravi Eipe, PVSM, AVSM (Retd)
50 years of 1962 war: A comparative analysis of the political relationship between India and China, then and now: Inder Malhotra, Journalist and former Editor, The Times of India
Infirmities in Higher Defence Management: Has the situation been addressed?: Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak, AVSM, VSM (Retd)
Assessing the Military capabilities of India and China in 1962 and 2012: Maj Gen GD Bakshi, SM, VSM (Retd)

Certain viewpoints, which emerged in due course of discussion, were: -
 There is certain progress made on the maps. The entire border is mapped and digitised but several incorrect depictions on the maps need to be
addressed.
 The media in 1962 was as ill-informed as the Government and the military
leadership.
 K Subramanian should be thanked for his efforts in strategic thinking
otherwise India had no history of strategic thinking before.
 Chinese have no interest in settling the border disputes, we have to
defend it.
 Great deal of literature needs to be reexamined to study the Chinese
forces and their tactic which had such a devastating effect on India.
 There was no great scope for diplomacy from 1954 to 1962. GOI was doing everything under wrap, and policies were made without consulting
the armed forces.
 There has to be a greater interaction between the military and Ministry of External Affairs.
 Ministry of Defense must stop becoming a post office between the military and MEA.
 Tri forces need to be integrated.
 The whole Nation in the Nehru period was of the belief that Chinese had
cheated on India.
 Decision making has to be faster, the system needs to be changed

Remarks by Chairperson - Gen NC Vij, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM (Retd), former COAS
Current Contextualisation of the Strategic Setting of India-China Relations and the Rivalry in the Himalaya: Dr. Monika Chansoria
China’s Defence Doctrine and its Implications for India: Brig Narendra Kumar
Chinese Strategic Capabilities to include Space and Cyber Space and its impact on India: Air Marshall M Matheswaran.
Policy Options for India in the context of increased Chinese Military Capability: Ambassador Satish Chandra.



Concluding Remarks by the Chairperson
China‟s modernisation took place in 2004 and by 2025 they will achieve their desired levels of modernisation. Certain factors should be adhered to in order to deal with China‟s capability enhancements. Some suggestions are:
a) India should raisea strike corps.
b) There is a need to upgrade India‟s ammunition holding.
c) India needs to check her missiles ystems.
d) The adoption of asymmetric warfare could be deciding factor.
e) Cyber command is the need of the hour.
f) India should build its counter-missile defence systems.
g) There should be a build up on missile systems and precision ammunitions.
h) Services in India should be made part of National Strategic Planning
Committee.
i) There should be a regular presentation by the three Chiefs on the
preparedness of India‟s forces.
j) National leadership should be made a part of such presentation on
preparedness of India‟s forces.