Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Oct 4 2012

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 16 Dec 2012 12:47

yes....good answers yo my question above.

break the buggers up and then make peace and then finally live happily.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 16 Dec 2012 13:42

Dilbu wrote:unkil wants ummah birader Egypt to be more like kufr bharateeyas. hainji?
Egypt: The Next India or the Next Pakistan?
Three weeks ago, the prime minister of India appointed Syed Asif Ibrahim as the new director of India’s Intelligence Bureau, its domestic intelligence-gathering agency. Ibrahim is a Muslim. India is a predominantly Hindu country, but it is also the world’s third-largest Muslim nation. India’s greatest security threat today comes from violent Muslim extremists. For India to appoint a Muslim to be the chief of the country’s intelligence service is a big, big deal. But it’s also part of an evolution of empowering minorities. India’s prime minister and its army chief of staff today are both Sikhs, and India’s foreign minister and chief justice of the Supreme Court are both Muslims. It would be like Egypt appointing a Coptic Christian to be its army chief of staff.

“Preposterous,” you say.

What's preposterous about this? India has already elected 3 Muslim presidents by this point (and until the mid 80s had elected more Muslim presidents than the entire Islamic world combined!). No big deal. Someone should post that in the comments section of the NY times.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 16 Dec 2012 14:34

Anujan wrote:Before India complains about Pakistan trained terrorists, they should realize that Pakistan itself is a victim of Pakistan trained terrorists. There are extremists on both sides of the border -- extremists in Karachi and extremists in Mumbai (who came from karachi). South Asia should not be held hostage to such issues.

Less than 10% of Pakistan is extremist and 980 billion Indians live on less than $0.000002 per year.

There is a real danger that this could actually become a standard footnote in some outlets.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 16 Dec 2012 16:25

Pakistani producers gear up against Indian films

The Pakistan Film Producers Association has asked the federal government to make a 90 per cent cut in the screening of Indian movies to give a boost to the domestic film industry.

The Association's chairman, actor and producer Syed Noor, warned the government of consequences if the group's demand is not met.

"We will take out rallies and organise hunger strike camps if the government does not take any action to save the local industry," he said.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Dec 2012 16:49

What should be known is that only the ceremonial head of state is Hindu. The rest are almost all of other faiths or philosophies... Ruling party leader is Roman Catholic. Pm is Sikh. Army chief is Sikh. Air Force chief is Christian. Internal intel chief is Muslim. MEA is Muslim. Chief Justice is Muslim. All are Indian. Because India is Hindu.

So I'm not sure why Friedman said "Hindu culture aside"

well actually, I am. Because if he didn't he wouldn't have an article to write.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 16 Dec 2012 19:39

JE Menon wrote:MEA is Muslim.

MEA is an a$$hole more than anything else.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 16 Dec 2012 19:57

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Dec 2012 21:21

JE Menon wrote:What should be known is that only the ceremonial head of state is Hindu. The rest are almost all of other faiths or philosophies... Ruling party leader is Roman Catholic. Pm is Sikh. Army chief is Sikh. Air Force chief is Christian. Internal intel chief is Muslim. MEA is Muslim. Chief Justice is Muslim. All are Indian. Because India is Hindu.

So I'm not sure why Friedman said "Hindu culture aside" well actually, I am. Because if he didn't he wouldn't have an article to write.

Question then is that are these the reasons why India is soft towards TSP or a soft state in general? I mean not militarily speaking, just a general outlook. If all the above posts were held by Hindus, would India's TSP policy be different? Would a nationalist Hindu PM have launched Aman Ki Tamasha after 26/11?

I find it interesting that appointment of an Indian intelligent chief was noticed by that snake Friedman. Tomorrow, as I said, if all important posts were held by Hindus, and dare I say, Brahmins or upper castes, and India responds forcefully against US bahadur's TSP terrorist munna, the same Friedman will say see, when India deviates from "secularism", militarism results.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 16 Dec 2012 21:23

MJ Akbar says it well. He pointedly asks MMS and SG to grow a spine (and discover or develop a sense of shame and humiliation).

Frankly, it does not seem sensible that Rehman Malik came merely to see the Taj or prove that he can use a fountain pen. I think I have the answer. He came to India to win the next election in Pakistan. His first press conference in Delhi was not addressed to Indians; he was talking to the more vitriolic of his constituencies in Pakistan.

Rehman Malik has admirable clarity, supported by a noticeable absence of sentiment and no sense of embarrassment. Nor is he troubled by doubt. The rules of politics, for him, are far more important than the laws of hospitality. An old maxim of behaviour demands that guests should not be rude to their hosts. Rehman Malik has no such qualms. No visitor has been as deliberately offensive towards Indians as Malik managed to be within hours of landing in Delhi.

Pakistan’s present high commissioner in Delhi Salman Bashir once dismissed Indian evidence provided by home minister P. Chidambaram as “mere literature”; Malik thinks that additional material is “only information”, possibly because his English is not as good as Bashir’s. But both mean the same thing.

Rehman Malik added that Ajmal Kasab’s evidence against the Lashkar and its leader Hafiz Saeed “needs further corroboration”. Sorry about that, Mr Malik, but all those who could have done so are either dead in Mumbai or alive in Pakistan. The dead can’t talk. The living can.

Have Dr Manmohan Singh and Mrs Sonia Gandhi decided that it is time India forgot about Mumbai and moved on, as Rehman Malik publicly urged India to do? I imagine that our leaders squirmed a little when Rehman Malik declared Hafiz Saeed innocent, or indeed when he blamed the death of Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia on the weather rather than enemy atrocity.

Perhaps they think that cricket will wash such tremors away with a great feel-good wave. They have also developed, on a parallel track, a little ploy: all those who want accountability are bloodthirsty hawks; and all those tilting towards obfuscation are little doves full of grace and wisdom.

India is not divided into hawks and doves. A majority of Indians wants peace with Pakistan, but they want peace with justice. Indians know that Mumbai might fade from memory but will never disappear, and that Pakistan can do something to ease the pain. Pakistan can ensure that the Mumbai masterminds do not laugh derisively while Indian hearts burn.

Is that too much to ask, Dr Singh?

http://dawn.com/2012/12/16/peace-but-with-justice/

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Dec 2012 21:34

Why waste ink and time, move on to better things-surely there is another scam that can profitably engage GOI ministers.

A people get the government they deserve. Accept it move on to opium dreams of a glorious past and a glorious future. Why burden yourself with the present?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Dec 2012 02:07

Pontificating Malik: Issue of Indian interference in Balochistan
Seriously, whoever invited this idiot should be hung and quartered on Rajpath.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said that during his visit to India, he raised the issue of Indian interference in Balochistan. He said that instructions are given by phone from India and that he would soon provide evidence relating to this.

the interior minister said that India had presented him information related to Hafiz Saeed, but had not given any evidence

He said that Indian foreign minister has agreed to give out unlimited visas rather than only three thousand.

He also said that Ashwariya Rai and Katreena Kaif called on him at his hotel room and.....(Wait, that's another Malik fantasy for another time).

This guy is a bigger disaster than Yahya Khan, Tikka Khan and the Titanic put together. I wonder what color is the sky in his world?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Dec 2012 02:12

jrjrao wrote:MJ Akbar says it well.

MJ deserves a box of mithai for saying it the way it is.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Dec 2012 02:18

Why does the ISI public relations lighten their photos; to make him look more handsome?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Dec 2012 02:24

sanjaykumar wrote:Why does the ISI public relations lighten their photos; to make him look more handsome?

Lighter skin and fairer looking.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Dec 2012 02:45

Tomorrow, as I said, if all important posts were held by Hindus, and dare I say, Brahmins or upper castes, and India responds forcefully against US bahadur's TSP terrorist munna, the same Friedman will say see, when India deviates from "secularism", militarism results.

What you observe here CRams Ji has depth. Yet it is not for us to introspect alone, it is for others to do so along with us obviously. This issue has crossed my mind several times, and the response from the Freidman's in each case has been different. But there is a problem with Hindu's/ Hinduism. And it is not created by primarily by Hindu's, but by the confluence of Pseudo Nehruvian secularism in collision with value systems inherent in Dharmic thought. The PNS (Pseudo Nehruvian Secularism) is also a result of collusion and tolerance between Dharmic and ultra tolerant Dharmic strands with excluvist ideology. Let me put it this way:

Ultra Tolerant Dharmic Interpretation (UTDI) + Excluvist Ideology (EI) = Pseudo Nehruvian Socialist Secularism (PNSS).

All 3 above in their individuality and core violate Dharma. Yet UTDI dilutes EI at a fringe that only ultimately benefits EI. PNSS destroys the economy and value systems original to the Dharmic making us more vulnerable.

To change the game/ equation. Lets remove Ultra from UTDI and Socialism from PNSS. PNS collapses by itself. The equation holds nought value. So we should endeavour to be a tolerant society but not an ultra one, where we tolerate a Musharaff amongst our midst, or an Owasi, or Shahi Imam or a PNS or WKK. We must learn to be a hard nation against those strands of thought and action.

Till we don't understand/ internalize these simple equations that have been our bane, we don't understand why standing hard for our core value systems will get only ridicule from all around. I don't stand for HInduism here, neither Sikhism, nor Islam, nor Buddhism or Jains.. i do for Dharma. And Dharma i equate with value systems. Value systems know no geographical boundaries. AhkandBharat is too small to contain my ambition to spread Dharma. Akhand Bharat is too small a sphere i seek to spread Dharma throughout. I think a Bharat that interfere's in every nation on earth to spread the Dharmic strand is the Bharat i want. Not one that looks askance thinking that non interference is some high brow Dharma. Arjuna was wrong at the start of the MB. India is wrong to day if it thinks accommodation with Evil justifies inaction and an ostrich like attitude. Back Dharma and we will all unite and fight for it. As a Modern nation Bharat's 1st failure does not commence in Kashmir. It falls in Tibet. When we realize that, the pieces will fall in place and so will the Friedmans. Think about it..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Dec 2012 03:04

jrjrao wrote:MJ Akbar says it well. He pointedly asks MMS and SG to grow a spine (and discover or develop a sense of shame and humiliation).

India is not divided into hawks and doves. A majority of Indians wants peace with Pakistan, but they want peace with justice. Indians know that Mumbai might fade from memory but will never disappear, and that Pakistan can do something to ease the pain. Pakistan can ensure that the Mumbai masterminds do not laugh derisively while Indian hearts burn.Is that too much to ask, Dr Singh?

Akbar Bhai, what Secular Sarkar f India have to do with the heart burn of Indian? Dont disturb Secular Sleeping Slave Singh he has job to do and can leave Sonia's feet massage to any one not qualified. GOI is is not a representative of India Public but of its own Long Johns full of Clowns.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Dec 2012 05:16

Harbans garu,

I have seen your points in few threads.

I think you are making a major wrong assumption in your analysis. You are assuming that the WKK brigade and the rashtra machiner and even the constitution are tolerant and peace loving.

In reality they are not tolerant or peace loving. Their tolerance and peacefulness are only limited to Abrahamic faiths. When it comes to Hindusim all these people and institutions are as violent as any Abrahamic could be.

It doesn't matter if you split Hinduism into 72 pieces and give clear definitions and circle of influence for each one of them. They all will be branded intolerant Hindu faiths and will continue to get harassed by these varieties.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Dec 2012 05:44

Sheikh Rashid admits that Paki are raping children, as young 4 years old babies.

[youtube]0iK5pEV4Q10&NR=1[/youtube]

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Dec 2012 08:07

I don't know about M.J.Akbar's stance on Aman Ki Tamasha, but if did support MMS's surrender then its disingenuous to criticize MMS now because this is precisely the out come one would have expected. And the very premise of Aman Ki Tamasha is "looking to the future" meaning 26/11 is history. MMS's minions have to make some noises about 26/11 but thats only for some public consumption. In other words, one cannot support Aman Ki Tamasha and expect any other outcome, TSP is not going to surrender at the altar of this piss process what it was not forced to do prior to the piss process. So while M.J.Akbar makes sense, I need to know his position on Aman Ki Tamasha before praising him.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2012 08:49

TTP claims responsibility for Peshawar airbase attack - Anita Joshua in The Hindu

Saturday night’s attack on the Peshawar airport by terrorists was followed by fierce fighting in the vicinity on Sunday after locals reported that some armed intruders were holed up in an under-construction building.

Backed by the Quick Response Team of the Army, the area police raided the building resulting in two suicide bombers detonating themselves and an intense gun-battle between the terrorists and security personnel. After several hours, the terrorists were killed and the building secured.

In all, 10 terrorists have been killed in the operation that began at the Bacha Khan International Airport around 9 p.m. on Saturday night. According to the Director-General of the Inter Services Public Relations Major General Asim Saleem Bajwa, at least five of the terrorists looked like Uzbeks.{So, the TTP claim is accurate then}

The initial attack on the airport left five terrorists dead. According to Major General Bajwa, this was a multi-pronged attack. First, rockets were fired at the airport , which also houses a base of the Pakistan Air Force and the Army’s Aviation Wing, followed by attempts by terrorists to enter the premises from two sides.

While five terrorists rammed their explosives-laden vehicle into one wall of the airport and ran off, firing and lobbing grenades when met with retaliatory fire, terrorists drove another vehicle — equally filled with explosives — into another boundary wall of the sprawling compound. When their vehicle was fired upon, the explosives in this case were detonated, resulting in the death of five terrorists. {So, it was indeed a well planned attack on the PNS Mehran style, but it failed for some reason. I am sure that the TTP, aided by Hamid Gul Aslam Beg and their friends, would analyze this event and plug the holes in the next such operation}

Police are working on the premise that the five terrorists holed up in the under-construction building were actually those who had fled from the airport on Saturday after they failed to breach it.

Evoking memories

The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) claimed responsibility for the attack — which brought back memories of the attacks on the Mehran base in Karachi in 2011 and Kamra base in Attock in August this year. While taking responsibility, TTP spokesman Ahsanullah Ahsan had said 10 terrorists were involved in the operation.

Meanwhile, the Peshawar Airport reopened for civilian traffic in the afternoon after 17 hours. The provincial administration claimed that the security personnel were successful in repulsing this attack because they had prior information of a possible attempt to besiege the airport which is used by the military to mount air assaults on terrorists in the tribal areas.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Dec 2012 09:02

How did they know who is Uzbekistan? Are they short and dark?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 17 Dec 2012 09:04

Supposedly one of the attacker...

I wonder if the tattoo is another tactically brilliant idea by ISPR..?
Plastering Satanic images on their dead martyrs for propagandu, suarly wont be taken lying down by the purer types..

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2012 09:12

At the receiving end of fanaticism - Anita Joshua in The Hindu

Pakistan’s Shias are so regularly killed in targeted attacks that counting the numbers who were thus killed in 2012 is an uphill task. But just to give an idea, even before the start of the Muharram month, when anti-Shia violence is usually routinely anticipated and accepted as a given, the numbers killed had crossed 389 — the number of people the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan says died in sectarian violence in 2011.

This time, the terrorists were emboldened enough to announce their intent. Ahead of Muharram, a number of Shias received text messages saying ‘Kill, Kill Shias.’ Sure enough, the self-appointed deciders of who is or is not a Muslim struck, killing 23 in two separate bomb blasts early on in the Muharram month.

Relentless targeting

Through the year, terrorists have been relentless in going after Shias; be it in Parachinar along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, Gilgit-Baltistan, Quetta, Karachi or the garrison town of Rawalpindi. The clinical manner in which the terrorists have been going about their “mission” has been chilling, generating enough disquiet among the members of the community to take to the streets on December 8 outside the United Nations headquarters in New York protesting the “genocide in Pakistan.”

Of all Shias, the Hazaras are sitting ducks, their distinctive Mongloid features marking them out. They are pulled out of buses and shot down often enough to force many to leave the country. In all other Shia killings too — except the attacks on Muharram processions — they are identified by the killers from among large groups of people, by the self-flagellation scars acquired by Shia men during the Muharram mourning rituals.

The video footage of one such attack on the Karakoram Highway earlier this year shows a convoy of buses being stopped by gun-toting terrorists. Unhurriedly, the terrorists — dressed in Army fatigues — ask the passengers to furnish their national identity cards to single out those with Shia names.

The grainy video does not clearly show this but some accounts of the attack claim the passengers were made to recite a particular prayer which Shias say differently. Thereafter, the ‘kameez’ (shirts) of the men were lifted to check for self-flagellation marks. Their Shia identity established, they were lined up and killed amid chants of “kafir, kafir; Shia kafir” (infidels, infidels; Shia are infidels). In this particular attack, three Sunni men were also killed for trying to defend the Shias.

More chilling than the actual violence is the general acceptance of such incidents. Apart from the momentary media coverage, perfunctory editorials and outpouring of angst on various social media platforms when an incident like this happens, not much national debate ever takes place over Shia killings. But it may not help very much either, going by the zero difference that the national debate over Malala’s shooting has made.

Unlike other persecuted communities, the Shias — who constitute about 20 per cent of the population — are not down and out socially or politically. “The President, Chairman of Senate and National Assembly Speaker — three constitutional office-holders in the country — are Shias but they seldom speak up for the community for fear of losing political clout or support of non-Shias. Similar apathy exists in the media [where many honchos are Shias]. Many of my colleagues do not speak about sectarian issues for fear of being branded fundamentalists/extremists,” rues Baqir Sajjad Syed of Dawn newspaper.

According to Islamic Research Institute Director-General Khalid Masud, Shias have traditionally been leading contributors to the intellectual discourse among the subcontinent’s Muslims. Yet, a recent Pew Research Centre study showed that 50 per cent of Pakistanis do not accept Shias as Muslims.

Though Shia-Sunni differences are not new to the subcontinent, Pakistan’s penchant for allowing geo-politics to be played out in its backyard has exacerbated the tensions; particularly since the Iranian Revolution and the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan that quickly followed.

Iran Revolution

While the Iranian Revolution, according to historian Tahir Kamran, seemingly “emboldened” Pakistan’s Shias who “abandoned the Shia tradition of political quietism,” {This is not entirely accurate. There had been wide spread violence against the Shias even before that. There were calls to disenfranchise and excommunicate Shias from Islam just as they did to the Ahmedis. The Shias in Pakistan were living in fear already when the Shah of Iran was dethroned} the Afghan jihad against the Soviets had the Saudis bankroll the then military ruler Zia-ul Haq’s Islamisation project which encouraged the “Sunnification of Pakistan.”

“Not only ‘awakened’ but ‘emboldened’ in the wake of the Revolution’s success in Iran, the Shia were public and vociferous in putting forward demands for ‘rights and representation’, {The Shias were doing so because Zia-ul-Haq wanted to implement a uniform Sharia, under Saudi Wahhabi influence, that was opposed by the Shia's. They wanted a Fiqah-e-Jaffaria rather than a Sunni Fiqh} trusting in Khomeini’s support, which he quite lavishly extended to them. Former Foreign Minister of Pakistan Agha Shahi revealed: ‘Khomeni once sent a message to Zia-ul Haq, telling him that if he mistreated the Shia, he [Khomeni] would do to him what he had done to the Shah’,” Mr. Kamran wrote in an essay in the publication Sectarian Militancy in Pakistan .

The Saudi-backed effort to turn Pakistan into not just a Sunni country but a Deobandi Sunni stream — that, too, of the puritanical Wahabbi-Salafi order — clashed directly with this Shia assertiveness in Pakistan. An early point of clash arose when Zia made it compulsory for all Muslims to pay zakat (a tax to support charity) to the state.

“Shia jurisprudence regards this as a personal matter … and a very large number of Shias organised to demand that they be excluded … This Shia movement was given some support by Iran … While the Shias won that round …, a line had been drawn that has continued to become darker and bloodier with time,” wrote Pakistani-American writer Omar Ali in an article on ‘Shias and their future in Pakistan.’

Saudi-backed ‘Sunnification’

A native of Jhang — the hub of anti-Shia terror networks like Sipah-e-Sahaba (SSP) and its breakaway Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) — Prof. Masud maintains that the anti-Shia rhetoric began much earlier as he recalls hate literature against Shias being circulated from the 1950s in this central Punjab district. So the ground was fertile for Saudi-backed ‘Sunnification’ and this made Shias launch their own militant outfit {for example, Tariq-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqh-e-Jaafaaria (TNFJ) or Sipah Muhammad (SM)}, clearly sharpening the divide.

Technically banned, the SSP and the LeJ have a free run with the former functioning under the new name, Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat (ASWJ). The SSP — which has contested elections — has a vote bank and the ASWJ claimed that the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) won the recent by-elections in Punjab with its help. Such alliances debilitate political parties’ ability to adopt zero tolerance towards terrorism.

All this notwithstanding, the anti-Shia rhetoric has till date not percolated into the curriculum Islamised under Zia. “In fact, many in the Pakistani middle class still have no clear idea of where the anti-Shia polemic is coming from. It was not part of our education. While Shias were a minority sect, their version of Karbala and the martyrdom of Husain was accepted …,’’ writes Mr. Ali adding that Saudi Wahhabis have a well-developed anti-Shia polemic that brands Shias as heretics.

While SSP & Co want Shias to be declared ‘non-Muslims’ like the Ahmadis, Dr. Masud maintains this is unlikely as the Shia community is much larger than the Ahmadis. Ironically, Shia parliamentarians had supported the law against Ahmadis and today their community faces a similar threat — a stark reminder of the eternal truth in Martin Neimoller’s Holocaust poem ‘First they came…

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2012 09:13

Suppiah wrote:How did they know who is Uzbekistan? Are they short and dark?

No, they are TFTAer than TFTA.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 17 Dec 2012 09:33

JE Menon wrote:What should be known is that only the ceremonial head of state is Hindu. The rest are almost all of other faiths or philosophies... Ruling party leader is Roman Catholic. Pm is Sikh. Army chief is Sikh. Air Force chief is Christian. Internal intel chief is Muslim. MEA is Muslim. Chief Justice is Muslim. All are Indian. Because India is Hindu.

Hmm ... Apartheid South Africa was also equally noble in that all power holders were non-blacks. Was it not Nehru who claimed to be "English by education, Muslim by culture, and Hindu by accident".

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Dec 2012 09:56

JE Menon wrote:What should be known is that only the ceremonial head of state is Hindu. The rest are almost all of other faiths or philosophies... Ruling party leader is Roman Catholic. Pm is Sikh. Army chief is Sikh. Air Force chief is Christian. Internal intel chief is Muslim. MEA is Muslim. Chief Justice is Muslim. All are Indian. Because India is Hindu.

So I'm not sure why Friedman said "Hindu culture aside" well actually, I am. Because if he didn't he wouldn't have an article to write.

Do we at all know whether these worthies have bought into the idea of India, which is fundamentally opposed to the spread of exclusivist ideologies ? Has this point been truly tested ?

Any non-White, non-Christian holding a major governmental post in the US can be safely assumed to have passed their test of adherence to American values. Would be ridiculous to celebrate this unprecedented diversity of background in Indian leadership unless we are sure of the same level of adherence to traditional Indian liberal values.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Dec 2012 10:14

Would be ridiculous to celebrate this unprecedented diversity of background in Indian leadership unless we are sure of the same level of adherence to traditional Indian liberal values.

Very well said Arjun ji.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2012 10:30

Rehman Malik looks like can be writing "How to lose friends and piss of people!"

TOI reports;

Bharati Jain

Malik's visit backfires-India rules out joint statement

NEW DELHI: India refused to issue a joint statement with Pakistan at the end of interior minister Rehman Malik's three-day visit, a public protest against the provocations of the visiting Pakistani minister which set the peace process backwards, negating the very objective of the meeting.

Though a joint press conference by home minister Sushil Kumar Shinde and his Pakistani counterpart was ruled out at the very outset on account of Parliament being in session, the two sides had agreed to issue a joint statement.

Officials in the home ministry were, in fact, working on a draft until the ceaseless needling led India to decide that enough was enough. The last minute decision was a vivid illustration of India's annoyance over Malik's conduct which widened the trust deficit and reinforced India's suspicions that Pakistan was not sincere when it promised to punish the perpetrators of 26/11.

However, the bitter taste left by Malik's controversial remarks - wherein he mentioned 26/11 and Babri demolition in the same breath and also indicated that Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia may have succumbed to inclement weather - led India to do away with a joint statement. The fact that this was a last-minute decision, taken after much prodding of Malik's delegation to act on India's demands in the 26/11 case, was clear when home ministry officials were asked to work on Sunday in anticipation of a positive response from Pakistan.

In fact, even before they decided against the joint statement, India made its disgust plain. Shinde, whom Malik had stunned into silence by raking up Babri, reportedly told the Pakistani visitor during one-on-one talks that he had spoken out of turn and that he should have restricted his statement to only the visa agreement.

The only concrete outcome was the understanding on the visit of a second Pakistani judicial commission to India to cross-examine the key 26/11 witnesses here. But in what vividly illustrates how the alleged peace mission was marred by a deepening suspicion of Pakistan's intent to take the 26/11 probe and trial to a logical conclusion, India insisted on two riders.

It insisted that a home ministry team should be allowed to visit Pakistan to work out the modalities and sort out the legal issues in the panel's visit. Secondly, the home ministry sought a firm legal opinion from Pakistani law officers on admissibility of the information that the panel seeks to collect from cross-examining witnesses here and also an express assurance that this would be the final visit of the judicial commission.

The Indian side justified the riders by saying how Pakistan had done little to speed up the 26/11 trial and bring the perpetrators to justice.

Much as Malik, in his one-on-one interaction with Shinde, offered to part with all the information sought by India on the 26/11 probe and trial in Pakistan, the delegation accompanying him showed few signs of matching up to the promises when it came to the brasstacks. Incidentally, Abu Jundal being an "Indian intelligence agent" was never raised by Malik during the talks, even after the Indian side repeatedly cited Jundal's statement to underline that even he had confirmed Hafiz Saeed's role as the prime mover of the 26/11 attack.

Among the demands put forward by Shinde at his interaction with Malik were handing over a copy of the 26/11 chargesheet filed in the Rawalpindi court, details of calls exchanged by 26/11 perpetrators, IP addresses used for communication during the Mumbai attacks and details of bank accounts supposedly used by 26/11 accused Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi. Shinde also sought dates for an NIA team's visit to review progress of the 26/11 probe in Pakistan.

Though Malik's response was prompt and "magnanimous" - he said all demands would be met and even volunteered to ferry the NIA team to Pakistan on his return flight - when the Indo-Pakistan delegations really got down to business, the assurances seemed to have run dry.

One particular incident confirmed that Pakistan's attitude towards the 26/11 case - tall promises but no follow-up - remains unchanged. When Shinde asked Malik for details of the 26/11 chargesheet filed with the anti-terror court in Adiala jail, Malik promptly offered to get the signatory, an additional secretary who was part of his delegation, to hand over the document.

However, when the additional secretary in question was confronted with the request for a copy of the chargesheet, he looked puzzled and said he had brought no such document with him.

The chargesheet would have helped the Indian side to confirm if the evidence submitted against the seven accused on trial in Pakistan was based on just the statements of Ajmal Kasab and Abu Jundal or if some further investigation had been carried out by the FIA.

Malik's assurance on call details, IP addresses and bank account queries related to 26/11 also met the same fate. An official who was part of the talks told TOI that this really put off the Indian side, which saw this as yet another confirmation of Pakistan's continuing unwillingness to cooperate on bringing the 26/11 perpetrators to book.

In fact, Pakistan's failure to match its assurances with action was raised by Shinde at a dinner hosted at the Pakistan high commission on Saturday. He confronted Malik on how his promises on 26/11 cooperation had fizzled out when the India-Pakistan delegations sat on the table. Malik, as usual, is said to have deftly evaded a response.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Dec 2012 10:38

Did you watch Jaswant, Tim Sebastian and Gen.Bandicoot,the "Mush-a-Rat" at the same table? TS tried his old tricks of starting another Indo-Pak conflict but was superbly trumped by erudite "Mr.Cool" Jaswant who asked him in the Queen's best English,what the "F..K" NATO was doing in Afghanistan and the sub-continent, bombing Pak with drones,acting like an imperial power? He poilitely told TS that "despite" the West's interference ,India and Pak could resolve their differences in the futureThe Bandicoot squirmed,as is his wont,when asked about Kargil,but was more muted than in earlier toad-like performances.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Dec 2012 11:29

Pakistanis are more afraid and more keen to make peace with their yahoos than they are inclined to make peace with India. This is clear from rehman malik visit. Any remaining a monkey ayesha types should have realized it by now.

It is wrong to think that Pakistan as a country has terrorists. The truth is the opposite. Terrorists have a country in Pakistan. RM is simply a civilian representative of the terror machinery.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2012 11:31

Ramana, I don't know from where you picked up what you posted above regarding Rehman Malik's visit.

Unlike what the article says, Malik's visit (or no Pakistani's visit for that matter) is ever to further the relationship between us and them. If India misunderstood the purpose of his visit, he is surely not responsible for that. The shame is on us, for not being able to read what is repeatedly written on the wall in bold and upper case. Either the MEA (and MHA) is (are) utterly useless or they were overruled by the Prime Minister.

The fact that the mandarins in GoI think that the non-issue of a joint statement is punishment enough for gross Pakistani transgression on our internal affairs, is shameful to say the very least. Even God cannot save us for this timidity. And these mandarins want us to believe that Malik's reference to inclement weather and Lt. Saurabh Kalia were partly responsible for this laughably tough Indian stance ? What did they do for 13 years ? The Kumbhkarans and Rip van Winkles suddenly woke up from slumber ? I would call this GoI reaction as schadenfreude and at our own cost.

On the judicial commission, Pakistan has again put India on the mat. MEA will be damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. We know pretty well that Pakistan will not move even an inch even after the second judicial commission. Rehman Malik's promise of completing the trial in three months after the commission's visit is as good as the promise he made to Palaniappan Chidambaram in c. 2010 about giving voice samples within a week or countless other such promises from the Pakistani Presidents down to the teaboys in their Foreign office. But, we have no other option except to allow this farcical second judicial commission too. So, MEA/MHA want to put some riders which Pakistan should be confident that it would easily overcome when the time comes. We are responsible for our own predicament.

The Rehman Malik visit and his utterances on Indian soil are slaps on our faces and we deserve them. In one of Vadivelu's immortal Tamil comedies he laments about how dozens of rogues beat him to pulp and he didn't even return a single blow to any of them. When asked why he kept so quiet, he says in his inimitable style, "One of those thugs said, while beating me, that I was such a good fellow to receive all the blows and not even demur" implying that his reaction would have robbed him of that fair name. I would therefore invite more of these Pakistanis to come here and beat us to pulp because we seem satisfied with what we receive from our younger brother whom we are confident of reforming. The US will then give us a certificate, like that thug's to Vadivelu, which we can loudly proclaim to the rest of the world.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Dec 2012 11:35

After all what difference does the death of a few thousands of Indians make when it comes to peace between South Asian brothers. Bade bade deshon mein aise incidents hote rahte hain..

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 17 Dec 2012 11:42

May Allah, Jaldi grant Jannat to the Dhimmi generation of India so Indian can breath free from this stinky secular suffocation . These BDY now have this new fetish of making India serve the Islamic interests.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 17 Dec 2012 13:06

Blast in Pakistani market kills atleast 15 people

Best way to bring down papistan, supply 1-5 kg of RDX and a Kalashnikov to every family.

chilarai · Post by **chilarai** » 17 Dec 2012 14:48

Pakistan misled India, never detained Hafiz Saeed in 26/11 case: Shinde

we definitely deserve all this and more !

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Dec 2012 14:52

chilarai wrote:Pakistan misled India, never detained Hafiz Saeed in 26/11 case: Shinde

we definitely deserve all this and more !

What crap Indian Leaders knew exactly what they were doing, it is easier look like a fool rather than a person who deliberately fools the nation for Private Interests.

When the INC and Media fooled India shame on them, when we keep voting them inside of taking them down- shame on all of us!

vanand · Post by **vanand** » 17 Dec 2012 16:56

SSridhar wrote:
Suppiah wrote:How did they know who is Uzbekistan? Are they short and dark?
No, they are TFTAer than TFTA.

Sure they can identify, they are one of their 4 fathers

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Dec 2012 18:07

I think you are making a major wrong assumption in your analysis. You are assuming that the WKK brigade and the rashtra machiner and even the constitution are tolerant and peace loving.

Ramay Ji where have i said that..

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Dec 2012 19:16

HarbansJi/ArjunJi,

What you guys point to, and what I was saying earlier is he crux of the problem that afflicts India. And that is, those at the helm do not share the Hindu civilizational underpinnings of India. So, from the west's POV as exemplified by that snake Tom Friedman, India rendering itself a eunuch country with the likes of what we see in the MEA and elsewhere, is the virtue "secularism" because it serves their interests. (Thats why he wants Coptic Christians included in the echelons of power in Egypt and hence the comparison with India).

US version of the same secularism and pluralism is that an Obama has to get up every morning and and do shastaanga namaskaara and sing glories in honor of the slave-owning "founding fathers" and every minute has to prove his Christian bonafides and that he is not a closet Muslim. But an MMS who shares more in common with those who looted and plundered India (recall his statement on British colonialism), or his natural predilection to be loved by Paki terrorists like MushRat and Mallik will be hailed by the snakes in the west as a "statesman". I am sorry, but India giving the reins of power to MMS, Sonia, Salman Kurshid etc is more a manifestation of Hindu cowardice and lack of unity and self respect and pride than any great secularist virtue.

Guys, all of you know I am a cricket fan. Aside from India's recent poor performance, I for one am going to boycott the kirket love fest with TSP next couple of weeks. I have Dish network, and the cricket series with the terrorists is pay per view, and I am NOT going to purchase it. I'd rather use that valuable money, and donate for a good cause. I hope other cricket fans on BR will join. I know this doesn't mean much, but a small step nevertheless.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Dec 2012 19:31

kmkraoind wrote:Blast in Pakistani market kills atleast 15 people

Best way to bring down papistan, supply 1-5 kg of RDX and a Kalashnikov to every family.

No supply to the weaker ones , then when they become strong supply the other side....Btw bunnies are now playing T20 style after a while....may Allah show them true path don't waste lives In suicide bombs when cars abound