Delhi Rape Victim Dies-Express your outrage.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2012 09:15

Her body was perhaps in no state for a public visitation even if so desired. Perhaps her family wanted complete privacy and must have asked for help in such matters.

I had suspected the outrage we are seeing here or elsewhere is a lot of genuine grief mixed with politics. Many comments even here suggest that clearly. Sexual assaults have been on the increase and is not related to any particular regime or state. Delhi was always known as an unsafe place to outsiders more than Mumbai and Calcutta the other metros, even two or three decades ago.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 30 Dec 2012 09:18

VikramS wrote: eklavya:

We are at a unique point of time where information is more readily and quickly available than it has ever been before. As a result there is the opportunity for anyone who is interested it get down to the first principle and do true discovery. You wil be surprised at what you will find.

Mere protest won't do, we have to look within

Vikram, please read the article above first linked by Disha that shows how sons of policemen and politicians are getting away with their violent sexual crimes. I also posted a link about the murder of a little girl in a senior politician's car (police tried to cover up the cause of death).

My perception is that the law does not always apply to the law makers and the law enforcement agencies.

My perception is that many people in government (elected and salaried) get rich by colluding with criminals, and the criminals and the people in government are merging into one class, following each others' customs and rituals.

My perception is that large proportions of the government and the police are compromised, they fear the aam junta, and are looking for protection from the aam junta, and are not looking to provide protection to the aam junta.

If you have the data and analysis to prove that my perceptions are wrong, I will happily accept it.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 30 Dec 2012 09:26

eklavya wrote:If you have the data and analysis to prove that my perceptions are wrong, I will happily accept it.

I am a little confused now...what has this new set of 'perceptions' got to do with the ones that VikramS and I were responding to ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2012 09:30

viv wrote:
ramana wrote:So BJP is also involved in the cover-up.
Confused...is it because a BJP person was at the funeral???

Yes. Why did he have to go so early in the morning ot particpate in the cremation? Was it show solidarity with the govt? Was he there as an individual or as a party representative? If latter why was he the sole person?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Dec 2012 09:32

Some songs by Pradeep.

aaj ke is insaan ko kya ho gaya ...

----

dekh tere sansaar ki halat kya ho gayi bhagwaan ...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Dec 2012 09:33

Bade wrote:I had suspected the outrage we are seeing here or elsewhere is a lot of genuine grief mixed with politics. Many comments even here suggest that clearly.

Tell how do you outrage without politics, when the subject itself is about the affairs of the people and the public policies.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2012 09:48

Public policy is only one facet of the problem at hand. Are you claiming that rape and sexual assault of the same kind does not happen in non-Cong ruled states. Another high profile one was in Calcutta that Surya mentioned. There was another one in Howrah. Many more during Left govt days. Same in TN too. Bringing in politics just serves only one purpose.

There is a lot of ineptness in how this was handled by the govt. With the death of the constable during the protests, any govt would have had not much of a choice. The only other non-Cong majority party would have done the same in their shoes. People are reading too much into the actions of the last few days and taking attention away from the rot that has been there for a long time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2012 09:53

Ineptness?

That constable died of cardiac arrest and even the medics said it yet the Delhi Bullice charged people with his killing. They took a former General with disturbin the peace!

Have you seen the lathis used to beat the public? Atleast 12 feet long so the victims have no chance of coming into contact with the force!

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 30 Dec 2012 09:53

^ Bade saar, don't know how much you know about India.

This link may be enlightening as to the severity of the problem: Delhi witnesses more rapes than the next five metros put together

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 30 Dec 2012 09:57

She contracted new infections at Safdarjung

...
The brutal assault by six men with a rusty iron rod damaged her abdomen so severely that the doctors at Safdarjung Hospital in the capital had to remove almost the entire small intestine (23 feet long) in multiple surgeries last week. Small intestine is required for food absorption and digestion.

Bereft of the vital organ, the 23-year-old physiotherapy student was put on total parental nutrition (TPN), an artificial formula containing glucose, amino acids, lipids, vitamins and dietary minerals.

It is administered through vein access in a limb.
...
...
In fact, towards the later part of her stay at the hospital, she picked up a hospital-acquired infection. Sources said she was infected by acinatobactor, a key source of infection in debilitating patients in the hospital.Since this bug survives on dry surfaces for up to 20 days, they pose a high risk of spread and contamination in hospitals, potentially putting immune-compromised and other patients at risk for drug-resistant infections that are often fatal and expensive to treat.
....
In her second week at the Safdarjung intensive care unit, the girl also developed what is medically known as disseminated intravascular coagulation, which leads to development of tiny clots inside blood vessels and carries the risk of bleeding from other sites.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2012 10:08

Arjun wrote:^ Bade saar, don't know how much you know about India.

This link may be enlightening as to the severity of the problem: Delhi witnesses more rapes than the next five metros put together

That is common knowledge from even cursory reading of news over the last few years. Is there statistics on the actual numbers over the last two decades, under reported as they are. Anecdotal comments from acquaintances and family told similar stories not just from UPA-2 days alone. So the problem with Delhi is independent of the rulers of any time afaik.

The number being touted even by ex-official (TNPSC) was for every rape case known, 10 go unregistered and 10 times that unreported or something like that. Enormity is large.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 30 Dec 2012 10:09

ramana wrote:Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.

Innit? Also a lot of 'other countries have no right' etc. The 'outrage' gets subsumed into agendas (well meaning and deflective).

OK, I say the next with trepidation :

Here an interesting excerpt from the CNN/AP report:

India's ambassador to Singapore said the victim's relatives, who are Hindus and live in New Delhi, have asked for privacy.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/29/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Where did the 'Hindus' part come into this narrative? Why are the names of the six men kept secret? Why the lock down in ND? etc.

The state is scared as it should be but why?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2012 10:16

ramana wrote:Ineptness?

That constable died of cardiac arrest and even the medics said it yet the Delhi Bullice charged people with his killing. They took a former General with disturbin the peace!

Have you seen the lathis used to beat the public? Atleast 12 feet long so the victims have no chance of coming into contact with the force!

Initially it was reported as a stabbing. Later came the news of cardiac arrest. Did not know what to make of it. From the pics the protests looked largely peaceful, except in one pic where did see a few people climbing over the barricades or trapped between two barricades.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 30 Dec 2012 10:25

ramana wrote:Read and lament:

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/bab ... ut-on-bail

From the link

IAS and IPS officers convicted of sexual assault and rape are either free on bail or have simply absconded.

Retired IAS officer M.R. Sarthi was sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment by the Jashpur district court in Chhattisgarh in September this year on charges of rape during his tenure as district magistrate of Jashpur. But he is now out on bail. He was accused of raping a woman who was working as a supervisor in the state's women and child development department in 2001. It took the victim more than three years to get a case registered against him. Sarthi was the first IAS officer to be convicted of such an offence in the state.

Shashi Bhushal Lal, a 2001 batch officer posted as special secretary of technical education in Lucknow, was jailed for allegedly making a rape attempt on an executive of a software company in a moving train in October 2012. The lady was travelling in the same coach along with her mother. Lal was later suspended by the state government. He was granted bail by a trial court judge, who said, "I am unable to understand that in a moving train when the destination was 35 km away from the place where the alleged offence of attempt to rape took place, how a person of the status of an IAS would make an attempt to outrage modesty where fellow passengers were also travelling."

However, neither of these incidents created as much furore as P.S. Natarajan's conviction. A 1975 batch IPS officer, Natarajan became the first officer in Jharkhand to be dismissed for allegedly sexually exploiting a tribal woman. Natarajan, who was suspended in March this year, was caught on camera in 2005. The police, acting on the complaint of the victim, issued an arrest warrant against him. He was inspector-general of Ranchi at the time. Natarajan continued to evade arrest until 2006, when he surrendered before the court after which he was granted bail. The victim had claimed that Natarajan use to exploit her by promising her that he would help her in a rape case that she had filed against another IPS officer, Parvez Hayyat, the then deputy inspector general of police of Palamu range, for allegedly raping her. Natarajan is out on bail now.

Another case involving an IPS officer is that of Madhukar Tandon. A former Rajasthan cadre deputy inspector general, Madhukar Tandon allegedly kidnapped and raped his orderly's wife, a tribal, on 21 January 1997. The case has now been closed and Tandon has been declared a proclaimed offender. His profile was recently shown on TV in one of the crime based serials.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 30 Dec 2012 10:27

Bade wrote: So the problem with Delhi is independent of the rulers of any time afaik.

You seem to be setting a rather low bar for expectations....Delhi has either maintained or strengthened its position as the rape capital among metros. If outrage is not taken to a political level with the threat of voting the government out - why would the situation improve?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Dec 2012 10:35

Delhi was not always a Cong bastion was it. You would have solid proof with numbers if you compared it with from a decade ago or pre-1998.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2012 10:44

Bade I see you don't have any outrage to express for the murdered rape victim. what are yoiu doing here? What you say can be said in many other threads. Please do so else where.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Dec 2012 10:52

18,000 cops keeping trouble at bay

The capital resembled a fortress on Saturday with the Delhi Police shutting access to all major government offices in central Delhi. Around 18,000 police officers manned the entry points to India Gate and Raisina Hill even as some stone pelting incidents was reported from Mandi House and Patel Chowk.

According to police, a chartered bus with tinted glass was attacked and damaged on Saturday evening. A few protesters were rounded up for harassing female protesters and for damaging property. However, they were later released. All protesters at Jantar Mantar were screened.

Even before the news of Nirbhaya's death was officially announced, Delhi Police had beefed up security across the city. In a late night meeting on Friday, attended by intelligence agencies, a joint commissioner was assigned for each important point - Jantar Mantar, India Gate and the Prime Minister's residence - while an additional CP level officer was asked to take care of each of the processions converging at Jantar Mantar. Another set of officers was asked to take care of the IGI airport route to Dwarka after there were reports that Nirbhaya's parents wanted to bring her back to the capital.

Delhi Police, on Saturday, had barricaded all entry points to India Gate where massive protests had been taking place following the heinous gang rape and assault on a 23-year-old paramedical student. Prohibitory orders under Section 144, till further notice, have been imposed in the New Delhi district of the capital.

As a precautionary measure, ten Delhi Metro stations were also shut down. The stations include Patel Chowk, Central Secretariat, RCR, Udyog Bhavan, Jorbagh, Khan Market, Rajiv Chowk, Barakhambha, Mandi House and Pragati Maidan. However, inter-change facility will be available at Rajiv Chowk and Central Secretariat stations, a DMRC official said.

Rajiv Chowk station was opened up on Saturday evening, a DMRC official said, after cops realized that it was a New Year weekend. The decision to close these stations was taken by the Delhi Police in a bid to prevent protesters from reaching India Gate. Delhi Police tweeted, "Entire central vista including Rajpath, Vijay Chowk and all road leading to India Gate will be closed for general traffic... All travelers are advised to avoid these roads."

Delhi Police commissioner Neeraj Kumar urged people to maintain peace and clam. "These are sad moments. We pray for Delhi braveheart. Delhi Police requests citizens to maintain peace and calm in these difficult times. We request them to avoid gathering at places advised time to time during the day and help us," said Kumar.

Around 40 companies including 28 companies of CRPF have been deployed in Delhi. While 20 companies have been deployed in the Central Vista area, three companies are outside 10 Janpath (Sonia Gandhi's residence), five at Jantar Mantar, two at 7 Race Course Road (Manmohan Singh's residence), two at Police Headquarters, five in South District and five as mobile reserve. The main protest centre - Jantar Mantar is being manned by the Special Cell, EOW and crime branch officers. Bulk SMSes are being monitored to stop rumour mongering.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 30 Dec 2012 11:25

Gandhi is to have said “Our Nation will have achieved true independence and freedom when a woman can walk in the midnight all alone and feels safe”.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 30 Dec 2012 12:09

Cross-posting from Nukkad thread...the brutality of the deed is completely sickening! Makes one ill just thinking about it...Why did this innocent girl have to cross the path of the monster that fateful day ???

gakakkad wrote:fb rumor , that the rapist inserted his hand in the vagina and tried to pull out the uterus ,prolapsing the uterus and perforating the bowels as a result ...chaiwala says that 50 cm of small bowel was necrosed when a laparatomy was performed ..,the had a tough time figuring out how an illeostomy should be performed ...that is beyond what Hannibal lecter would do... its rivals the torture Sourabh Kalia must have faced during Kargil...

There should be a televised execution of the 6 of em...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 12:32

x-posting

disha wrote:
ramana wrote:Simple one page charging all the seven accused with murder. No need of all hat BS dosas. save that for the pakis!
No sir, a tight case has to be made., in the chain of events, each link needs to be strong. Please read the ranga-billa case verdict at http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1359524/

A very cogent argument is based on why they should be hanged (they were eventually hanged). The current dispensation at the center has played with law and order to divide votes and stay in power. Just for that, this dispensation should go and their supporters should be shamed.

The car, which was being driven at a high speed, jumped the lights. By the time Inderjeet Singh reached the lights, the traffic from the other direction started flowing and he was forced to stop. He saw the car speeding on Shankar Road up the Ridge and the boy still waiving for help. By the time Inderjeet Singh made to Shankar Road, he lost sight of the car. As he had noted the number of the car, he decided to report the matter (Exhibit Pw 9/A) to Police-Station Rajinder Nagar. It was now 6.45 P.M.

(10) But the report of Inderjeet Singh had no affect on Police-Station Rajinder Nagar. It was to take an hour before relaying the report to Police Control Room. To be exact, it was at 7.40 P.M. that the duty officer of this police-station relayed Inderjeet Singh's report to the Police Control Room as well as to Police-Station Mandir Marg. With this the police at Police-Station Rajinder Nagar washed their hands off this report.

the fact

(218) "THE folly was compounded by another police-officer working at Police Station Rajinder Nagar. Inderjeet Singh, who had lost sight of the offending car, did not lose heart. He went to this police-statical, reported the matter adding that he was lodging the report "on humanitarian ground". But this did not affect the police. Though the report was recorded at 6.45 P.M. the police refused to take action since the crime had not been committed "in their jurisdiction" an every day excuse of the police for its non-action. The information was conveyed to the control room at 7.40 P.M. practically after an hour's delay. There is nothing to show that the control room took any action. Had a responsible police-officer been sitting in the control room, he could not have any difficulty in co-relating the two informations about the kidnapping of two children in Fiat car Hrk 8930 and organising a hunt near about Shankar Road. Had it been done, a routine check of Upper Ridge Road would have brought them to Budha Jayanti Park and the car in question.

the observation

(219) We can only trust and hope that the police of Delhi will take the public reports seriously and act promptly if they want the public to co-operate. The public is likely to refuse co-operation till the apathy of the police lasts.

The one hour delay that proved fateful.

Even in the present case.

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 30 Dec 2012 12:33

May your soul rest in peace sister and you get eternal bliss which fools on this earth could never provide. Coming back to the anguish, well I don't know where to start. A few years back, I was all starry eyed about India and her progress, thought that finally the days of poverty and shame are over, when people used to die for lack of a bowl of rice, or a pack of ORS or some cheap medicine. It was a time of 8 percent growth, end of the license raj, burgeoning IT/Private sector and a prosperous middle class which is the workhorse for any economy. Well, I am quite disillusioned now. It seems to me, and I am open to disagreement on this, the middle class in India is just a mute/dumb/handicapped entity being torn apart by the other 2 classes. They are too busy earning that extra few backs to gain entry to the elite club, so much so that they are oblivious to everything around. The politicians in India have mastered the art of ruling, the one of divide and rule, they are keeping the poor in eternal poverty so that they become the vote banks by giving them trifle enticements, with no education/no hope for future, ready to do anything for a few bucks. On a trip to Calcutta, had seen trucks after trucks of people coming for a political rally, my chauffeur had said, they would do so only for 100 bucks or half a meal. The whole day in the sweltering heat chanting slogans for the political leader, who they might have never seen or heard of, wasting an entire day away from family/kids just for half a day of meal! No wonder, the politicians stay in power effortlessly and it is in their interest to keep this class as it is. Then comes the rich, well who wouldn't want to be rich specially in a place like India where poverty was synonymous. So they have made this pact with the devil, the ones in power, for eternal allegiance and servitude, in return they get a portion of the pie, so that they get to adorn the cover of posh magazines, their coffers get filled with the sweat and blood of the rest. In any case, the A/C cars, the bodyguards, the tall mansions and the connections ensure that they don't have to interact with the masses, or stand in queues or face what the common man faces. And somewhere caught in the middle of all these classes, is the middle class. The rulers just don't care about these people as what better than to leave a blind person to one's fate unless one comes in the way! The middle class is too scared lest it descends to the poorer one and too eager to move as soon as possible to the elite one. So they have become a handicapped group and when they are being eaten alive by the others, they choose to ignore and continue with their fates.

To quote a few examples, a girl in a delhi bar is shot, the witnesses feel more comfortable supporting the criminal and moving on with their lives (sometimes I wonder how they slept at night), a traffic cop is beaten to death by some goons while trying to save a girl from getting teased/raped and no body including the girl bothers (have not heard about the incident ever since, might be my ignorance though), a brave cop, standing up against organized crime, is run over by the mafia and nothing happens, a foreigner is raped outside Delhi airport, 2 girls are run over to death by a truck while trying to escape being raped from some son of a politician and his pet goons and nothing happens, a Guy in Noida killing countless innocent children for sadistic pleasure and nothing happens (the place has become a tourist attraction ever since or so I have heard), this incident with the gang rape and so many such examples. Sometimes I feel, good people are becoming a rare breed (which can't be) or are just too scared to stand up against these things (as most probably they would have to pay with their lives, things would be back to business and no one would bother after a few days of candle lights or guitars). I was in this bar in Bangalore and the news of the girl's death was all over and it was like its so sad and lets move on to some bollywood numbers instead to drown the grief, the new item number in the Salman Khan movie is Sexy man! Well, Delhi is too far and it was always unsafe, wasn't it! I had often heard this, that Indians treat other fellow Indians with the most disdain/contempt, I had always wondered why is this saying, as I have travelled all across India and found in every place, the people are the most hospitable than I have found in any other country, but maybe, just maybe, it has a point and a bigger picture to it.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 12:39

And what was the obscene hurry to cremate the Girl that they could not wait for even Sunrise

NEW DELHI: It was only late last night that police approached the officials of a crematorium in south-west Delhi for an early morning cremation of the 23-year-old gang-rape victim.

The cremation plans were kept a secret till the last moment as police apprehended a large gathering may cause problems.

Fearing law and order problems, authorities also wanted the last rites to be performed at 6.30am but their plans did not go through as Hindu traditions did not allow cremation before sunrise.

At 7.30am, the emotional father of the victim, who fought a brave battle for life for 13 days, lit the funeral pyre in the presence of her brothers, relatives and others.

Police had approached the officials of New Indian Education and Cultural Society running a crematorium in Dwarka at around 10pm yesterday and told them to arrange for cremation at 6.30am today.

"We were told about the victim. We made arrangements. Our priest Vijender Sharma guided the rituals.

"The cremation was planned at 6.30am but as per Hindu traditions, we cannot conduct such rituals before sunrise. So we had to wait till 7.30am," Sunil Kumar, manager of the society, said.

A senior police official said the security arrangements were made to ensure that the cremation takes place peacefully. There were violent protests last weekend following the gangrape and brutal assault on the 23-year-old girl.

The family and relatives were brought to the crematorium in a bus accompanied by police.

At the crematorium, the entrance was blocked for public and media.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress president Sonia Gandhi went to airport to receive the body and console the family.

Personally supervised cremation, something is fishy and deeply rotten with this UPeeAee
Ack thoo on DP MMS and SG.

yogendra · Post by **yogendra** » 30 Dec 2012 12:52

ramana wrote:X-Posted....

Is this the same Ramsingh who is one of the 6/7 accused of the rape? He had appeared before in Kiran Bedi's Aap ki Kacheri complaining against his employer.

Other news report about the rape also had mentioned passingly that Ram singh was involved in an accident before and that there was an metal plate/rod surgically inserted in his hand.

Watch the video! The owner complains that Ram Singh is illegally using the bus and driver while drinking. Kran Bedi asks "How do you know that he is driving after drinking?".

what is the name of the owner in that video?

Gangadutt, it seems. I wonder if the real culprits have been all caught.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 13:04

DNA reports that elder brother of Ram Singh , the main accused, is lodged in Tihar jail in a Robbery case.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_de ... se_1779888

Ram Singh's elder brother Rajesh was convicted in a robbery case and is currently lodged in Tihar jail; his younger brother, Mukesh, is a co-accused in the gang-rape case.

The whole family had criminal history.

yogendra · Post by **yogendra** » 30 Dec 2012 13:18

There has been no news of a post mortem being done before the cremation. Is that a necessity for a murder case to go to court?

The information of the incident has been controlled to such an extent where even a majistrate has complained of intense police interference. What is being hid here?

The guys who refused TIP are also the same who proactively confessed to their crime with shame. Their family have also vacated their houses in the slums and disappeared (stated on NDTV with the reason being given that it was out of shame). Are they willing bakras?

A juvenile is stated to have been the most brutal offender but would probably be given no more than 3 years. Who is this minor Raju?

Some of the questions troubling me rightly or wrongly.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 13:59

Postmortem is essential in all such cases. The postmortem is done between sunrise and sunset ( before 5 PM) in India. But I think it is done in Singapore as per their Laws since the Victim ostensibly died in Singapore Hospital. Let us see when more details come through

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 14:00

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 82614.aspx

Gang-rape victim was to marry in February: neighbours

The murdered victim of a gang-rape in New Delhi was to marry her boyfriend, who was injured in the same attack, neighbours who attended her funeral said on Sunday.

"She was supposed to get married in February to the same guy who was attacked on the bus with her," said Meena Rai, who lived next to the 23-year-old medical student in Mahavir Enclave.

Meena Rai said that she had been shopping with the unnamed victim for wedding outfits and the contents of a wedding box known as trousseau.

"They had made all the wedding preparations and had planned a wedding party in Delhi," she said.

Usha Rai (no relation), who was also present for the cremation ceremony, confirmed that the woman had planned to marry in a matter of weeks.

"We know that she was going to get married in February," she said. "The whole neighbourhood was excited about it."

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 14:08

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 30 Dec 2012 14:11

Cosmo_R wrote:
ramana wrote:Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.
Innit? Also a lot of 'other countries have no right' etc. The 'outrage' gets subsumed into agendas (well meaning and deflective).

OK, I say the next with trepidation :

Here an interesting excerpt from the CNN/AP report:

India's ambassador to Singapore said the victim's relatives, who are Hindus and live in New Delhi, have asked for privacy.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/29/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Where did the 'Hindus' part come into this narrative? Why are the names of the six men kept secret? Why the lock down in ND? etc.

The state is scared as it should be but why?

Thats political. If there is even a whiff that the victim was muslim, you know what will happen..

Notice also that they aren't saying upper caste, lower caste, middle caste.. and all in between. Its better to use generic terms as "hindu" so that the community doesn't take arms. The fact that the victims name, the rapists names aren;t been published is a bit fishy. This sort of thing does not happen in UK. The names are kept secret until the arrests are solid.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 14:14

^Funeral pyre of UP A.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 14:19

Cosmo_R wrote:
ramana wrote:Interesting how a thread to express outrage induces the supporters of UPA type mindset to come out.
Eg Mahesh Butt and his ilk.
Innit? Also a lot of 'other countries have no right' etc. The 'outrage' gets subsumed into agendas (well meaning and deflective).

OK, I say the next with trepidation :

Here an interesting excerpt from the CNN/AP report:

India's ambassador to Singapore said the victim's relatives, who are Hindus and live in New Delhi, have asked for privacy.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/29/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Where did the 'Hindus' part come into this narrative? Why are the names of the six men kept secret? Why the lock down in ND? etc.

The state is scared as it should be but why?

Shonu wrote:
Thats political. If there is even a whiff that the victim was muslim, you know what will happen..

Notice also that they aren't saying upper caste, lower caste, middle caste.. and all in between. Its better to use generic terms as "hindu" so that the community doesn't take arms. The fact that the victims name, the rapists names aren;t been published is a bit fishy. This sort of thing does not happen in UK. The names are kept secret until the arrests are solid.

Well , somewhere in the reports it is mentioned that she belonged to Kurmi sub caste. If that is of any relevance. I think it is immaterial to the nature of the case. It could have been any randomly picked victims by the Killer Bus. The mention of Hindu in relation to this case is meaningless and bad /unethical reporting.

Here is the link
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/f ... 253570.ece

Family members described a woman driven by a passion to acquire a medical education, who — unusually in rural India — had the full support of her parents. “She had made up her mind very early that she wanted to become a doctor,” Mr. Singh said. He said the woman’s parents, who belong to the Kurmi backward-caste community, made many sacrifices to educate their two sons and daughter. Her father, who works in a private company in Delhi, sold three bighas of land in Bihar, bit by bit, to fund her medical studies. The one acre his family owned in this village was also mortgaged.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 30 Dec 2012 14:22

SaiK wrote:Why this hurry for cremation? Is it per the girl's religious needs or something else? Why are the gov people attending the funeral?

As per our tradition, the body is cremated the very same day (if death before a certain time) or early next day. This is assuming she is hindu.

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2012 14:26

Bade wrote:...I had suspected the outrage we are seeing here or elsewhere is a lot of genuine grief mixed with politics. Many comments even here suggest that clearly. Sexual assaults have been on the increase and is not related to any particular regime or state. Delhi was always known as an unsafe place to outsiders more than Mumbai and Calcutta the other metros, even two or three decades ago....

Bade bhai, why are you squirming in your chaddis? The "katju smart" Botsa from AP said that "just because we got freedom at midnight does not mean girls can roam around at midnight" - why not? Oh! Delhi was always known as an unsafe place to outsiders! What do the insiders do - shiver in their pink chaddis? If it was such a crime ridden state, why not the MHA and the Delhi Government do something in the last 8 years. Or last 5 years. Or last 3 years. Or in the last month when they allowed illegal buses to ply around? Why not after CWG? Heck the bus was plying kids!

The issue is not about "stopping crime" or "about swift justice"., the issue is about faith. The faith has been completely broken and continues to be broken. Buses still are plying with tinted windows and shades drawn.

- No faith in Police
- No faith in Judiciary
- No faith in the Legislature
- No faith in the media

Just accept the fact that Delhi has more crime than rest and be prepared to be murdered in the worst possible manner. Why step out at night? Do not you know how dangerous the streets are? And no I am not talking about personal freedom to step out to enjoy the air., it could be an errand across the city.

All are for themselves, it is a jungle raj. And who has been at helm for so many years? Atleast show some shame if not any outrage!

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2012 14:38

yogendra wrote:There has been no news of a post mortem being done before the cremation. Is that a necessity for a murder case to go to court?

Need not be, since generally autopsy is performed to determine the cause of death. Here the incharge Dr's medical report will suffice. Also a case history is prepared with all the details before the transfer. The records and the procedures at Safdarjung hospital become a start.

A juvenile is stated to have been the most brutal offender but would probably be given no more than 3 years. Who is this minor Raju?

Some of the questions troubling me rightly or wrongly.

This could have been leaked to ensure that the juvenile is blamed and every body ends up with life sentence and they can be out on parole. What troubles me is that they seem to have powerful connections - why? And why the "state funeral" for the girl? Why the PM went to receive the body? Why?

BTW, a smart judge can still write in condemning all of them to gallows - difficult with minor involved. Read the verdict on the Chopra kids by the supreme court (I have linked it somewhere)., the fact that none of them had remorse when they got up and turned themselves in is cause enough for them to be hanged. The law is not vindictive, it seeks to be reformative. The determination here is to make sure the accused is on the path to reform., however by further leaking that the accused want to be hanged (showing that they are remorseful) they can be shown to be on the path of reformation and that makes the case for the judge harder.

And even if the judge all the way to SC delivers a death sentence, there is always the president. A bootlicker pratibha patil helps, to commute the death sentences.

yogendra · Post by **yogendra** » 30 Dec 2012 15:03

disha wrote:
yogendra wrote:There has been no news of a post mortem being done before the cremation. Is that a necessity for a murder case to go to court?
Need not be, since generally autopsy is performed to determine the cause of death. Here the incharge Dr's medical report will suffice. Also a case history is prepared with all the details before the transfer. The records and the procedures at Safdarjung hospital become a start.

But was any forensic swabs taken to establish scientific evidence that the accused are the real perps and not some stand ins? Or would the prosecution solely rest on the accused's own acceptance of the crime.

disha wrote:
yogendra wrote: A juvenile is stated to have been the most brutal offender but would probably be given no more than 3 years. Who is this minor Raju?

Some of the questions troubling me rightly or wrongly.
This could have been leaked to ensure that the juvenile is blamed and every body ends up with life sentence and they can be out on parole. What troubles me is that they seem to have powerful connections - why? And why the "state funeral" for the girl? Why the PM went to receive the body? Why?

It does not seem like the accused have powerful connections. Their socio economic status does not justify such a connection.
The alternative could also be that some/all of the accused are not the real perps while some/all of the real perps are not the accused.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 15:05

disha wrote:
yogendra wrote:There has been no news of a post mortem being done before the cremation. Is that a necessity for a murder case to go to court?
Need not be, since generally autopsy is performed to determine the cause of death. .

Not correct. As I said it is essential in all cases of unnatural death where occurrence of crime is suspected.

In this case Autopsy was done at Singapore. That report would be sufficient to establish the cause of death that is inferred as Cerebral Edema
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/li ... 19500.html

Post-mortem of Delhi gang-rape victim was done at Singapore General Hospital, where she was taken after she breathed her last at 2.15 am IST at the country’s Mount Elizabeth Hospital. A special chartered flight has flown to Singapore from Delhi at around 8 am to bring the deceased's body and her family back to the country.

http://news.biharprabha.com/2012/12/pos ... im-damini/

Singapore: The Post Mortem Report of Damini, the Delhi Gang Rape Victim showed that she died of Cerebral edema, a disease which causes serious swelling of the brain. Damini might have been affected by this disease due to the cardiac arrest on Tuesday night when She was still in India. Severe Infections in different parts of the Body was also reported.

India Today report was at tis URL but seems to have taken down the report.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delh ... 39921.html

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Dec 2012 15:07

yogendra wrote:

But was any forensic swabs taken to establish scientific evidence that the accused are the real perps and not some stand ins? Or would the prosecution solely rest on the accused's own acceptance of the crime. .

Yes that is done.

disha · Post by **disha** » 30 Dec 2012 15:20

chaanakya wrote:Not correct. As I said it is essential in all cases of unnatural death where occurrence of crime is suspected.

thanks, I stand corrected.

yogendra · Post by **yogendra** » 30 Dec 2012 15:28

chaanakya wrote:
yogendra wrote:

But was any forensic swabs taken to establish scientific evidence that the accused are the real perps and not some stand ins? Or would the prosecution solely rest on the accused's own acceptance of the crime. .
Yes that is done.

Thanks.

So the case would not rest on the accused's own acceptance of guilt. This I hope becomes the standard for all rape case.