Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Neela]

So there are some ( slimy ones albeit ) , who research a story first , get the statistics and come to the thread and throw in the bait and wait.
But we will bite ! And when we do, we will make sure the facade is ripped apart!
Sex ratio in Gujarat ----> Now where have we heard this before? Ummmmm I wonder! Search for the usual suspects and you wont be dissapointed. And someone herre decides to join the ranks the spineless mediamen who would sell anything for a quarter.
Little does a petty boy understand that when the stats are extended to pre-2001 days, he will start running with his hand covering his kundi!

Gujarat needs no advice from silly ,small men who get a sadistic pleasure in seeing a problem in that state and ascribe it to "Moditva"
-----
It will take at least 2 decades to set right gender ratios.
The graph is already ticking upwards in favor of a more balanced sex ratio.
And he leaves no stone unturned

Recently, for example, expressing regret that the Unjha Taluka (where he presided over the silver jubilee celebration of Goddess Umiya Temple) had the lowest sex ratio in Gujarat despite being the abode of Goddess Umiya, Modi appealed to the Kadva Patidar community in Gujarat to stop the practice. This appeal led to the community taking a vow in the holy temple of abolishing it.

He is an educated man. He knows feeling up choir boys won't see a balanced sex ration.
------
Come on ma niggah....grow a pair...get your sh1t together ....and fight a real one...

[Arjun]

Gujarat has THE LOWEST per capita figure for rapes among all states in the country.

There was somebody on the 'Rape Outrage' thread the other day who was arguing that what was important was how safe the women "feel"...Even by that yardstick - speak to women in Ahmadabad, and they would be extremely vocal about how Ahmadabad is far safer for women than any other city of India.

[kapilrdave]

People commenting against Bhagwat and RSS have absolutely no idea what RSS is and what it means to be a head of RSS. This nation has endured self hatism and disbelief largely because of RSS. As soon as they hear the word RSS people tend to think that this org is meant to divide the nation. Which is terribly wrong. Anybody who has actually went to 'Shakha' of RSS even for small amount of time would know that this org is working towards uniting the Hindus scattered in hundreds of castes. Ever thought why Modi never used his low cast card in election? That is because RSS has taught him to not to do it. Modi is just a trained and disciplined soldier of a huge and holy org that is RSS. They are not cooking them against any religion or nation but unite the people as whole. Isn't it desirable? They are teaching and promoting Indic values. They tell the stories of great heroes of India to children in Shakha and ignite the little souls. They also emphasis on physical training in Shakhas. They chant patriotic songs. The message in the song is always noblest and describe the India of our dream, a nation with highest moral values and deepest love for the culture. You just have to meet any Pracharak of RSS to get astonished by their moral values, intellectual level and dedication for the nation. They have left their family and sacrificed their social life (they donot marry) to betterment of the society and thus the nation. There are hundreds of them across the India constantly roaming for the cause. Modi also was a Pracharak before BJP borrowed him for active politics citing his exceptional abilities. ABV, Pt. Dindayal Upadhyay, Vir Savarkar, Advani all have been a Pracharak once. And Mr. Bhagwat is the head of this holy org. Just search on net for his lectures and see how enlightened, humble and devoted this man is.

Sorry for OT but could not resist myself.

[SaiK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty#India
Nehru-Gandhi dynasty (1947 AD - <?>)
answer the question..expected timeline? be truthful.

How is that one man counter this hierarchy of powerful men and wimmen folks?

[Theo_Fidel]

All of which would be fine if they weren’t obsessed about 'purifying' the nation and committed to the end of India and it constitution.
-------------------------------

So lets try this again.
What is the Moditva position on
- Equality of women
- Ending the sex ratio violence
- Freeing women to join the working population

Or do we just stick to the superfan types position of there is no problem, repeat no problem.

I see the comments on how Ahmedabad is apparently super safe, though FB has reams of women who talk to the contrary.

Meanwhile , in the real world...
How can a 14 year old have a fiancé BTW.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_tr ... im_1784699

Meanwhile, Sharma told DNA that it was a ‘misunderstanding’. “I thought she was brought here again for medical tests. However, when I realized that she is to be treated for her leg injuries I admitted her in the hospital and she is being treated accordingly,” he said.However, Sharma also claimed that the girl’s condition is normal and she has been hospitalised only to claim compensation the government gives to a rape victim.

The 14-year-old girl from the Atlawada village of Kadana taluka of Panchmahals was raped by her fiancé and left to die in the outskirts of the village. A rape complaint was filed in Kadana police station on Thursday night. However, the girl had to shuttle between Kadana, Santrampur, Godhra community health centres before she undergo the test at SSG Hospital, Vadodara on Friday evening to get medically tested to substantiate her complaint.

[Arjun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty#India
Nehru-Gandhi dynasty (1947 AD - <?>)
answer the question..expected timeline? be truthful.

Nehru, that old codger, gave a foretaste of his scheme one day before Independence from the British. His speech declared "Long years ago, we made a tryst with dynasty, and now the time comes when we shall redeem our pledge..."

DDM retards of that time probably changed 'dynasty' to 'destiny'...

[ramana]

The "tryst with destiny" is a copy from FDR's speech in 1936.

I was shocked at that lifting of words and ideas.


http://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his234 ... speech.htm

.....This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny.

Nehru changed the word "rendezvous" with "tryst".

The former conveys the sense of appointment or meeting with destiny.

Tryst usually connotates a sly/underhanded meeting.

[Atri]

New prescription for Vinaji.

Read Bharatiya Puranas - 18 of them over 18 months. Then read Ramayana and Mahabharata in 2 more months. Total course lasts 20 months.

Then 2014 elections will come and your illness will be cured. You will also know the difference between Bharat and India.

Nice... touché..

[RamaY]

Theo ji,

Please spend some time to answer this enquiry.

TIA

He is a man and at some point if he wants to be PM he has to say what he will do in places like S.TN. And no, we have no interest in becoming another GJ, what ever that means.

Can you please explain further on
1. What does S.TN want?
2. What aspect of GJ that S.TN would never want to become?
3. Who are more acceptable leadership idea/person for S.TN?

[SaiK]

what is GJ? garib jan?

I think any TN person would want more water! that is all. If Modi can bring ganga and yamuna to their doors, he will become the real Rajnikanth.

[Arjun]

All of which would be fine if they weren’t obsessed about 'purifying' the nation and committed to the end of India and it constitution.

Theo, you are putting yourself on a short leash on this thread if you continue with demented statements like the one above...

What is the Moditva position on
- Equality of women
- Ending the sex ratio violence
- Freeing women to join the working population

What metrics do you want to see across India for each of the above and what is the Dynasty's stance on these parameters, so we can compare ?

I see the comments on how Ahmedabad is apparently super safe, though FB has reams of women who talk to the contrary.

Any idiot can bring up a 'rape' clipping from any random city in the world whatsoever.... Do look at the intra-India statistics comparing states on rapes per capita.

[Atri]

What is Moditva?

[Theo_Fidel]

In other words no answers. Pah!

[RamaY]

All of which would be fine if they weren’t obsessed about 'purifying' the nation and committed to the end of India and it constitution.

What happened to the existing constipation? Did it not give equal position to Wimmens?

What role did Congress play in executing this constipation? What is its performance over 50 years? What benchmark it set for others?

If the current constipation is 100% correct and Gods word then the current dispensation failed to implement it so a new leader should come.

If the problem is the constipation then it will have to change.

Make your choice. It is not wise to expect different results without changing anything.

[member_20317]

GJ=Gujarat
S.TN=South Tamil Nadu.

BTW indeed Theo ji, but why cannot a 14 year old have a fiancé/fiancee. Because they dont have it in US. Hein ji.

How cruel indeed fiance at 14, kids at 14.5 raped at 15 dead at 16. Is that what you are running away from?

Wake up sleeping beauty it is the Marriage that is prohibited below the statutory minimum and that statutory minimum is what your Juvenile is using to escape the consequences of the Rape killing of the Delhi girl. If in Modi's Gujarat somebody gets engaged at 14 what has that got to do with Modi or you?

[Neela]

Tut tut tut Ma niggah....you cut a sorry figure. Whipped and packed off Nuclear and now here. All it takes is a scratch and you slink away when asked.
Like me said...get your sh1t together!

[johneeG]

All of which would be fine if they weren’t obsessed about 'purifying' the nation and committed to the end of India and it constitution.
-------------------------------

they?! Modi or dynasty? Can you show anything to support your statement? For instance, did Modi say that Hindus have first right on nation's resources?

So lets try this again.
What is the Moditva position on
- Equality of women
- Ending the sex ratio violence
- Freeing women to join the working population

Did Modi ever say anything to say that he is against any of the above? BTW, what do you mean by 'freeing women'? 'Freeing women' from what?

Or do we just stick to the superfan types position of there is no problem, repeat no problem.

The position, as far as I understood, is that Modi's rule is better than others. No one said there is no problem... Or are you trying to create a strawman?

I see the comments on how Ahmedabad is apparently super safe, though FB has reams of women who talk to the contrary.

Meanwhile , in the real world...
How can a 14 year old have a fiancé BTW.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_tr ... im_1784699

Meanwhile, Sharma told DNA that it was a ‘misunderstanding’. “I thought she was brought here again for medical tests. However, when I realized that she is to be treated for her leg injuries I admitted her in the hospital and she is being treated accordingly,” he said.However, Sharma also claimed that the girl’s condition is normal and she has been hospitalised only to claim compensation the government gives to a rape victim.

The 14-year-old girl from the Atlawada village of Kadana taluka of Panchmahals was raped by her fiancé and left to die in the outskirts of the village. A rape complaint was filed in Kadana police station on Thursday night. However, the girl had to shuttle between Kadana, Santrampur, Godhra community health centres before she undergo the test at SSG Hospital, Vadodara on Friday evening to get medically tested to substantiate her complaint.

As Arjun ji, rightly said, anyone can bring any number of individual cases to make the points. But that is not going to get anywhere except show that one is good at google search. It is the stats and relativity(as in, comparing Modi's performance with other regimes) that are important.

So, lets try again:
Modi is better than other rulers of India. It does not mean there are no problems or that he is perfect. His rule is better than other regimes of India. It does not mean that there are no problems at all.

Modi enjoys the support of youth(which indicates his performance in employment and education) and women(which answers all your questions)...

This is the general way in which people tend to make proper conclusions in real world.

[svenkat]

I will try to answer the question on theo saars behalf
1)We want secularism-full state support for the christist infrastructure bequeathed by British and continued preferential treatment for christist education business-this is one huge employment/influence 'peddler' in small towns of South TN-palayamkottai,nazareth,thoothukudi,nagercoil,kanyakumari,colachel,madurai
2)We do not want hindutva-a homogenous idea of hinduism which scours away the indvidual features of the hindu faith-thiruchendur subramaniaswamy temple,the innumerable mariamman temples of the villages,the valliyur murugan temple etc
3)We do not want interference in the state govt policies.
4)We would not like influx of small kirana type businessmen to competre with naadars.

Of these,2 and 3 are no problem.There will be a head on confrontation on 1.Fourth,is something that worries me.As internal migration picks up pace,the constitution does not prohibit anyone from taking up any job anywhere.Has any one in Hindu think tanks thought of these issues.Also if state govt policies are discriminatory against Indian citizens(for instance I have a huge grouse against TN reservation policies where many castes have been indiscriminately declared backward and creamy layer is not excluded and brahmanas have accepted it and moved on but why should anybody be appeased).

When we think of hindu nationalism,at least as an ideal,we would want mobility all across India for all classes of people including labourers and human rights and minimum welfare measures.It is poorest who need targeted food security,support for decent housing,livelihood spaces.

[vijayk]

People commenting against Bhagwat and RSS have absolutely no idea what RSS is and what it means to be a head of RSS. This nation has endured self hatism and disbelief largely because of RSS. As soon as they hear the word RSS people tend to think that this org is meant to divide the nation.
Sorry for OT but could not resist myself.

Kapilji

You can educate a person with no knowledge by imparting knowledge and making them see the truth.
You can educate a person with wrong knowledge and you can show him the truth and he will likely realize if he has an open mind.

But most of these sickular crooks have an agenda; they know the truth; But they have an agenda; They will jump on news by twisting the facts and lying and by putting words into others' mouths; You can't fight them with truth; They deliberately cloud things. Their goal is to muddy up things;


http://www.firstpost.com/india/bharat-v ... 78333.html
Bharat vs India: Mohanrao Bhagwat might need to go back to school

Look at this SOB ... PAID media CON agent.

1) Khairlanji: A place in Bhandara district in Maharashtra , where four members of the Bhotmange family of a lower caste was brutally massacred. The victims are Bhaiyyalal Bhotmange’s wife Surekha, his daughter Priyanka, and sons Roshan and Sudhir. Surekha and Priyanka were stripped and paraded naked before being killed in broad day light in the choupal.

Caste violence is a curse especially in villages. We have come so far but still a long way to go. Not relevant to what Bhagwat said. Bhagwat said women are treated with more respect in villages than cities. This is caste violence but he twists it.


Which Bharat was Bhagwat referring to? AFP
2) Gujarat : In 2002, hundreds of women from the Muslim community were raped and killed. Many who survived are still living the trauma. Numerous reports by human rights groups, who visited the place after the tragic genocide, are available. The following paragraph is from one such: “There is compelling evidence of sexual violence against women. These crimes against women have been grossly underreported and the exact extent of these crimes – in rural and urban areas – demands further investigation. Among the women surviving in relief camps, are many who have suffered the most bestial forms of sexual violence – including rape, gang rape, mass rape, stripping, insertion of objects into their body, stripping, molestations. A majority of rape victims have been burnt alive.”

Back to Modi baiting... What relevance has it for city vs village? Nothing... Riots are terrible and terrible things happen.

3) Dandaka Forest : This place figures in Aranya Kanda in Ramayana, the story of Bhagwat’s hero Lord Rama, the epitome of correctness and dharma. It was from here that Dravidian princess Surpanakha, the sister of Ravana (grandson of Tataka, whom Lord Rama had killed earlier), fell in love with Rama. Along with his brother Lakshmana and wife Sita, Rama humiliated her. When Surpanakha became furious, Lakshmana mutilated her, by chopping off her nose and breasts.



This is the intelligence of PAID SCUMS

4) Valmiki Ashram: In Uttara Kanda, this was the place where Lakshmana abandoned Sita at the insistence of Lord Rama after she was rescued from Lanka and her agnipariksha. Now, it is a tourist spot.
The question is what do we consider these places as. Are they city/village/forest/India/Bharat?



This is the intelligence of PAID SCUMS

[RamaY]

When we think of hindu nationalism,at least as an ideal,we would want mobility all across India for all classes of people including labourers and human rights and minimum welfare measures.It is poorest who need targeted food security,support for decent housing,livelihood spaces.

How can Nadars, Christians, S.TN people have special protections while ensuring free moment of people across society, nation, varna, caste, religion etc.,?

[Theo_Fidel]

I think people are getting overly senti about what I'm trying to get at. You are going to have to get beyond Gujarat, Gujarat, Gujarat... self trumpeting if you want to make progress.

Once Modi leaves the cocoon of GJ, folks are going to ask him tough nasty questions. He better have a better answer than, 'Gujarat is swarg'. Which IMO is the same as the piffling twaddle the princeling peddles.
-----------------------

Sv,

1. What will you replace secularism with? No one believes secularism is perfect except for those who have experienced the alternatives...
2. So no Hindutva, I think Modi and RSS would be stunned by that.
3. So states are kings. I can go for that within limits. But a citizen ship needs a national project to believe in and strive/sacrifice for.
4. Re: Mobility. What makes you think we do not have full mobility already?
Chennai is filled with Bihari's right now. I don't see any barriers at present.

[Atri]

What is Moditva, Theo Saar? Have you or any one articulated what this term mean? can you direct me there?

[svenkat]

RamaYji,
Is that not the human predicament? The conflict between an ideal and the real.If Hindutva is going to hurt existing interests,what is the incentive to change?Human beings have a conservative and prfer to maintain status quo.We are talking of organised interests who will be affected by influx from 'outside'?

What is the guarantee that the incoming groups are just?Whats the guarantee that things are better off now than before.The idea of India is not God given.The Bharata varsha of old was based on quite different ideals and political unity,democracy were no issues.

There is a tamizh proverb:Veliyur pidaari ur pidaariya viruttichu.(Pidaari-the fierce guardian diety) The outsider pidaari drove away the local pidaari.

Theoji,
Biharis are just labourers not full citizens exactly the way tamizh labourers were in dharavi,bengaluru or Delhi.All these political ideals never touch the poorest classes.Atleast tamizh labourers have got votes and ration cards in dharavi and bengaluru.I will wait until bihari labourers get the ration cards/voting cards in Madras.

[ramana]

svenkat, What about Bangla deshis in Madras? Are they integrated? In Hyd there are a lot of them.

[svenkat]

ramanaji,
I didnt understand your question.I am a 400% hindu fundamentalist and I dont give a damn for inefficient shop keepers hiding behind linguistic parochialism.But we are talking of democracy,the expectations raised and suppose we cannot fulfill them and worse there are bitter repercussions.

Sankuji was talking about over crowding in Delhi in the other thread.If people start pouring into say TN and suppose there are violent reactions(I will not be instigating them) but the potential exists.Even in Mumbai,very recently SS's patience was wearing thin when lakhs of biharis descended on mumbai for class 3 and class4 jobs in railways.

[RamaY]

SVenkat ji

The Hindu dharma is the way of living that directs the real life in the path of ideal life. That is why it has those constructs that facilitate the journey "Asato maa sad-gamaya, Tamaso maa jyotir-gamaya, Mrityor-maa-Amritam gamaya ".

The key word here is the journey. For example in the Rape Issue, the journey is about catching and punishing the culprits, offering immediate, visible and tangible security to other Indians and addressing the underlying social issues permanently.

Can you please show me a "JUST" income distribution society that you want to usher in India? Isn't the whole logic of our constipation is transfer of power, money, opportunities and even faith from group to another? Then why are we scared of the same transferring to another Indian group?

Yes. The future losers will fight future winners. What should be the basis for future wars? Dharma or secularism?

The die-nasty apologists say it is Secularism. We say it is Hindu Dharma. There is no compulsion to stand on the side of Dharma, but the constipationalists demand people to stand by secularism. Probably they know which side the winds are blowing.

[SaiK]

I am a 400% hindu fundamentalist and I dont give a damn ..

you mean you are 100% hindu, and 300% fundamentalist?

[svenkat]

RamaYji,
All I hope is "Asato Ma Sadgamaya,Tamasor maa Jyotirgamaya".

[SaiK]

^that means you are aged less than 40. , the last piece for oldies to say.

[RamaY]

^ that is the "natural" flow sir, so it will happen.

Don't get me wrong. The die-nasty Christian apologists are following gorilla tactics same as our estranged brothers who were twice separated. They always kwechan but never give details even after repeated attempts.

The debate is neither for us nor for them. Both sides are clear about what the want and what they stand for.

The debate is for those dhimmis who think Yinduism is sekkular, pissful and same same as every other faith. They need to understand in clear terms "doodh is different from paani"

[Sanku]

Sankuji was talking about over crowding in Delhi in the other thread.If people start pouring into say TN and suppose there are violent reactions(I will not be instigating them) but the potential exists.

svenakt-ji; to clarify, what I was saying was that a governance challenges, successes and failures in context of handling large populations, this had nothing to do with frictions with existing population etc (not saying those are not possible issues) -- only that governance umbrella did not expand as fast as it was needed, or illegal and unwanted influx checked by state.

This is just to clarify my position.

[SwamyG]

what is GJ? garib jan?

I think any TN person would want more water! that is all. If Modi can bring ganga and yamuna to their doors, he will become the real Rajnikanth.

I know you did not say linking of rivers, but river linking has been talked in desh often. And, it is a very bad idea because it is not sustainable. Moreover, it causes takleef in the minds of people 'giving' water. Creating canals within a region for irrigation and drinking is fine.

[SaiK]

takleef?

[RamaY]

If done correctly River Linking project will unite Bharat. That is why the takleef.

[member_20317]

I think people are getting overly senti about what I'm trying to get at. You are going to have to get beyond Gujarat, Gujarat, Gujarat... self trumpeting if you want to make progress.

Once Modi leaves the cocoon of GJ, folks are going to ask him tough nasty questions. He better have a better answer than, 'Gujarat is swarg'. Which IMO is the same as the piffling twaddle the princeling peddles.
-----------------------

Sv,

1. What will you replace secularism with? No one believes secularism is perfect except for those who have experienced the alternatives...
2. So no Hindutva, I think Modi and RSS would be stunned by that.
3. So states are kings. I can go for that within limits. But a citizen ship needs a national project to believe in and strive/sacrifice for.
4. Re: Mobility. What makes you think we do not have full mobility already?
Chennai is filled with Bihari's right now. I don't see any barriers at present.

Theoji, what Modi ends up doing is not something that a voter can guarantee right. There is hardly a point in taking off the clothes if we have not even reached the river yet.

Gujarat is about 5% of India. Statistically that is a pretty big number. There is no reason to believe that ceteris paribus the rest of India will not experience the same kind of governance as Gujarat did with NM at the helm. Considering the fact that the GJ population constitutes Muslims also and there is not much of a dissatisfaction w.r.t. citizenship rights amongst Muslims of GJ we can IMO safely conclude that NM is good for everybody across the denominational divide.

[SwamyG]

.....
2)We do not want hindutva-a homogenous idea of hinduism which scours away the indvidual features of the hindu faith-thiruchendur subramaniaswamy temple,the innumerable mariamman temples of the villages,the valliyur murugan temple etc
.....
Of these,2 and 3 are no problem.

Venkat saar: Can you elaborate that point? I cannot understand if there is sarcasm, or if you are for or against 'homogeneous hinduism'?


Saik....yes takleef. As we can see right here in BRF river dispute threads or elsewhere. You might have heard elders talking about how an individual will be reborn as a lizard when he or she does not give water to the thirsty. Yet, sharing water is a complex issue. It is not going to unite India as others claim. The greatest glue that unites India is the Indic dharma.

[ramana]

Svenkat, Dharma is subtle they say.. I guess my sarcasm is also subtle.

The point about BD migrants is they are often integrated in the system everywhere, while Indians from India (Biharis, South Indians etc.) are treated as separate all over India.

[SaiK]

no, we are not trying to unite India here.. We are trying to solve problems. one is excess of deluge water that is only causing misery to NE regions, and that problem is solved by diversion of only those extraneous water. no permission required to save people from water based disasters.

Modi will do wonders for the nation if he can understand basic needs - just basic needs for advancements... but will he for the nation?

His panchasheel would be:
- Energy sector
- Water
- Infrastructure & Roads
- Admin cleans up/computerizations
- Policy based governance.

Nothing else, can make him defeat the dynasty.

[member_20317]

SaiK praahji, there will be no such thing as excess-water in North East in next 20-30-40 years. NM did one better in this regard. His guys are planning to use the waters of Saraswati river. Apparently it still flows underground. Much less a flow then a normal river but for the far flung areas of Gujarat that itself could be a big idea. You tell me if any other guy in India is even thinking along these lines.

[SwamyG]

Svenkat, Dharma is subtle they say.. I guess my sarcasm is also subtle.

The point about BD migrants is they are often integrated in the system everywhere, while Indians from India (Biharis, South Indians etc.) are treated as separate all over India.

That is because humans see the differences, and not the similarities.