Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

member_23365 · Post by **member_23365** » 09 Jan 2013 02:45

Most of us are saying we must have done something which has enraged the pakis so much..
I say this thought process is totally wrong. Regardless whatever IA has done those soliders bodies dont need to be mutilated. Unless we send a strong message this will continue..
We should attack them, burn their bodies everytime we make a kill..Unless we do that atleast 5-6 times paki barbarity wont stop.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 09 Jan 2013 02:56

Although I am with you on all on "taking action" .. thats a joke.

We have and it seems, will always, let them walk all over us. Ball-ness maunmohan singh and italian waitress will sell our country before going to war.

What most people don't seem to realise is that, everything is connected. National pride, self respect, love for country, care of duty, clean governance. The latter drives most everything else. The same clean governance would reduce crime, develop infra, reduce poverty and rein in corruption. This in turn would fuel (though not a necessity) pride and love for nation -> respect for citizens life -> fight back.

India must be the only country in the world, where an enemy can come in to our own country, kill our soldier, mutilate his body, show so much disrespect and we do nothing except offer more visas, more trade in return. Shame on this govt and everyone who does not want to retaliate.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Jan 2013 03:46

Arre bhaya! Kaye ko khali pili tension letta hai, tum desi log? Out source it. Let the afghan birathers take care of this. They are experts in ...er...creating havoc in the minds of an average paki. Let them worry over timing and reciprocity. They know how to respond with ferocity and an eye-for-an-eye type vengeance. May a hundred paki heads boom in the desert along the Durand Line.

Kandahar airport attack

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2013 04:30

As usual, the political leadership will not retaliate. If at all, the IA will have to plan something. And, it must be published. Indians must know that a punishment has been inflicted.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 09 Jan 2013 05:39

James B wrote:
Debate: Pak's open aggression - 2-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

Hats off to Arnab. He was brilliant today.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 09 Jan 2013 06:03

Need to drop a 2,000lb LGB on the Paki post nearest to the murder site.

Indian government/civil servants didn't even allow IAF to cross LoC in Kargil in 1999. Such damned fools.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Jan 2013 06:04

Gilgit-Baltistan in limbo

EVEN after six decades, the people of Gilgit-Baltistan continue to suffer in constitutional limbo despite their unconditional accession to Pakistan

Finally, the current democratic dispensation should immediately take concrete steps for granting constitutional recognition and provincial status to Gilgit-Baltistan

The pakiturds are now looking to absorb GB into their territory as a province. Should that be a signal for India to do the same to Jammu and Laddakh?

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Jan 2013 06:24

eklavya wrote:Need to drop a 2,000lb LGB on the Paki post nearest to the murder site.

No. No. No. Patience, my friends, patience.

Calm down. I have said this before. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Especially, when the act of a revenge is not seen as one by the others. There are many other ways to make the pakis suffer, really suffer over a long period of time. Dropping a 2000# bomb will only create martyrs, invite an immediate retaliation of kind and global condemnation. They expect India to do just that. Remember, the pakis have nothing to lose. They were born for Allah's use.

Instead, think of small, carefully calibrated moves that collectively will do more harm to that nation of Mlecchas over a decade so that many of us who feel the impotent frustration of our leaders today can watch the inbreds suffer in agony and pain for a very, very extended period of time. Think stock market manipulations, river water diversions, incite rebellions, include the afghan factor, play with the paki currency, ruin their credit worthiness to zilch, manipulate IMF diktats, expose paki bankers, send back Veena Malik.....These are the actions that will force a paki to eat another paki to survive.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 09 Jan 2013 06:27

Did you know that the mlecchas once had a heroine by the name of Asha Posley?

She was the heroine of the first ever released film in Pakistan, which was the Urdu film Teri Yaad. She played the female lead opposite Nasir Khan, famous Indian actor Dilip Kumar's brother, who played the male lead. However, the film flopped.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jan 2013 06:40

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Intelligence sources tell HT's Atir Khan that the Pak Army soldiers who entered India & killed 2 jawans were frm the Special Services Group.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Firing continues across the LoC in Mendhar sector.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Those asking others not to 'bay for blood' (even when they're really not), please go join Art Of Living or something. Friendly suggestion.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Update: BSF on heightened alert along international border with Pakistan.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Lance Naik Hem Raj & Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh of 13 Rajputana Rifles. Give your country 24 hours to forget you. R.I.P.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Khurshid says 'mutilation' of jawan today 'extremely distressing'. Said the same about Saurabh Kalia. At least we know where this is headed.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Dear TOI, Good day to pimp this. Sigh. | pic.twitter.com/hEjkRwUD

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Jan 2013 06:47

Anupmisra ji

Why not both, not as well as cold revenge?

Just neutralize the a 10km stretch with Pinaka and then start the cold revenge.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 09 Jan 2013 06:49

sunnyP wrote:
James B wrote:
Debate: Pak's open aggression - 2-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos
Hats off to Arnab. He was brilliant today.

He is an idiot who invited these cockroaches in the first place ! There is no reason for those napakis to be there !

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 09 Jan 2013 06:54

Unfortunately, we will not even revert some of the crass CBMs that we've put in place to benefit the Pakistanis. Sigh!!

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Jan 2013 07:46

Proportionate response to soldiers' killing, Khurshid says

What’s does “proportionate response” mean to our Congress Party led Government?

Our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh will limit his visit to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to 2 days?

Our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh’s next joint declaration will only agree that India is supporting terrorism in two provinces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

The Congress Party led UPA will repeal the Enemy Property Act in 2 days and all citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will have first and second right on the resources of the property previously attached under the Act?

Our national cricket team will be prevailed upon to tour the Islamic Republic of Pakistan only for a 2 match Test series?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2013 07:47

Anindya wrote:Unfortunately, we will not even revert some of the crass CBMs that we've put in place to benefit the Pakistanis. Sigh!!

Anindya, by day two or three India will forget this episode. How many remember an exactly similar act a decade back ?

Ilyas Kashmiri severed the head of Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar of the Maratha Light Infantry, taking it back to Pakistan as a trophy in c. 2000, presenting to the then President and COAS Gen. Musharraf and receiving a cash award for his act. To support what Kashmiri had done, ‘Maulana Zahoor Ahmad Alvi of Jamia Muhammadia, Islamabad, issued a fatwa in support of slitting the throats of Indian Army officers’.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 08:19

RamaY wrote:Anupmisra ji

Why not both, not as well as cold revenge?

Just neutralize the a 10km stretch with Pinaka and then start the cold revenge.

Spirit of the argument aside, I think you missed the discussion the other day about our lack of rockets for the Pinaka.

Also the absence of NVGs because BEL needs the contract.
Also ball-less army commander.
Also bad equipment on border with good equipment only for US-India joint exercises.
Also no artillery guns
Also 10,000 crore reduced from budget reducing army cold start modernization
Also...

Well you know how it is.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 08:22

arun wrote: Proportionate response to soldiers' killing, Khurshid says

What’s does “proportionate response” mean to our Congress Party led Government?

Our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh will limit his visit to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to 2 days?

Our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh’s next joint declaration will only agree that India is supporting terrorism in two provinces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

The Congress Party led UPA will repeal the Enemy Property Act in 2 days and all citizens of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will have first and second right on the resources of the property previously attached under the Act?

Our national cricket team will be prevailed upon to tour the Islamic Republic of Pakistan only for a 2 match Test series?

Proportional response means that MMS will sleep on the other side of the bed this evening. What you are talking about is disproportionate response onlee.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Jan 2013 08:25

With all due respect to MMS' heartlessness I think the army must share the blame for this incident. First, army must immediately retaliate with whatever resources available and then the 'incident' should reach North & South Blocks. After that its up to the politicians and bureaucrats to respond diplomatically and wash their hands. This is called the art of deniability. Now that GoI has issued a statement nothing can be done. Now army cannot retaliate because then it would be seen as a political decision. Now the ball is in politician's court and all that will happen is diplomacy...in other word nothing.

So I see two miskates here, deliberate or not is a different matter. One, army must retaliate by all means. They didnt, which means either they dont have balls or there is no clear instructions how to react in these situation. Either case is a concern. Two, GoI must not issue statements so quickly. What was the hurry? They must first give time to army to let them settle the score and then do what you can do best.

God only knows when we will learn the art of deniability. All jingoism aside we cannot really expect politicians to give open or covered orders to retaliate once the matter openly reached to them. It is upto the army to react first.

just my opinion.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jan 2013 08:26

jamwal wrote:

Can anyone put MMS Face there. ***Deleted*** He is always ready to offer his Ass to the Pukis.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jan 2013 08:31

vivek_ahuja wrote:
RamaY wrote:Anupmisra ji

Also 10,000 crore reduced from budget reducing army cold start modernization

Well you know how it is.

Of course Moot Mut Singh and Maino want to cut Defence budget, they are ready to sell PSU's stake for cheap to bank-roll schemes bearing the Nehru-Gandhi names.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 09 Jan 2013 08:32

A couple of points here:

1. Compare the number of international outlets printing the first and second stories.. Pakis have a stranglehold on RoP reporters in international media who always bring out the TSP version of facts.. TSP manages international media very very well.

2. If IA can bring in a dozen tspa soldiers and tie them up in public in rajpath, that will be satisfying.. dont even have to kill them..

However nothing much is likely to come out of this whole incident.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jan 2013 08:36

Harish wrote: Pigeon-hearted? Squirrel-brained? Wrong both. Anyone whose blood doesn't boil at such atrocities on those who defend us, has neither a heart nor a brain. I hope the IA retaliates with utmost force, deniably, under the cover of mist or darkness. It needs to be a clinical commando-op, not an artillery barrage. Two can play that game.

The head of the army Bikram Singh was hand-picked by MMS. You have hopes of these two doing anything for India's pride. Really?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Jan 2013 08:38

It appears Beijing puppet Stalinist rapist goon's yellow agents are blacking out and downplaying this horrible episode, to protect their paymasters' munnah.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 08:39

abhijitm wrote:With all due respect to MMS' heartlessness I think the army must share the blame for this incident. First, army must immediately retaliate with whatever resources available and then the 'incident' should reach North & South Blocks. After that its up to the politicians and bureaucrats to respond diplomatically and wash their hands. This is called the art of deniability. Now that GoI has issued a statement nothing can be done. Now army cannot retaliate because then it would be seen as a political decision. Now the ball is in politician's court and all that will happen is diplomacy...in other word nothing.

So I see two miskates here, deliberate or not is a different matter. One, army must retaliate by all means. They didnt, which means either they dont have balls or there is no clear instructions how to react in these situation. Either case is a concern. Two, GoI must not issue statements so quickly. What was the hurry? They must first give time to army to let them settle the score and then do what you can do best.

God only knows when we will learn the art of deniability. All jingoism aside we cannot really expect politicians to give open or covered orders to retaliate once the matter openly reached to them. It is upto the army to react first.

just my opinion.

The whole point of which is that you assume that the Army wants to do anything to rock the boat to begin with. The way things are going, the army as an organization is not breeding a culture where initiative and "rocking the boat" in instances like this are encouraged. The culture is that if you went and did something unliterally, say at Battalion level or higher, you will either be given a pat on the back (if things go well) and everybody senior to you will take credit for giving speedy orders blah blah blah. And if something goes wrong and you lose another soldier or something (even if you killed twenty of the pigs) then your seniors will hang you out to dry.

Who will take initiative in such an atmosphere?

So now even senior officers walk around with cameras to document the crime scene and make videos to cover their backs but not do their jobs as battlefield commanders.

The army you are thinking of is not the army that exists today. Sad as it is.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Jan 2013 09:02

And this is not one off incident we are talking about! year after year we have been encouraging pakis to go another step beyond. We dont act, even shower gifts and concessions.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 09 Jan 2013 09:06

SSridhar wrote: Anindya, by day two or three India will forget this episode. How many remember an exactly similar act a decade back ?

Ilyas Kashmiri severed the head of Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar of the Maratha Light Infantry, taking it back to Pakistan as a trophy in c. 2000, presenting to the then President and COAS Gen. Musharraf and receiving a cash award for his act. To support what Kashmiri had done, ‘Maulana Zahoor Ahmad Alvi of Jamia Muhammadia, Islamabad, issued a fatwa in support of slitting the throats of Indian Army officers’.

The Pakistanis have seen that we've essentially bribed them after 26/11 to return things to normal. So, they may very well be gambing that if they raise the stakes, we'll bribe them again (read Siachen) to return things to normal - whatever normal means.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 09 Jan 2013 09:31

atamjeetsingh wrote:Most of us are saying we must have done something which has enraged the pakis so much...

No. It is just a chain of retaliations and I was wondering what happened last. It is not a 'what we did to make pakis barbarians'. we all know they are already barbarians.

Bibhas · Post by **Bibhas** » 09 Jan 2013 09:42

Checked on News Channel this morning. GOI is sending DGMO for TALKs. That is "proportionate retaliation" I guess.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 09:48

Gus wrote:
atamjeetsingh wrote:Most of us are saying we must have done something which has enraged the pakis so much...
No. It is just a chain of retaliations and I was wondering what happened last. It is not a 'what we did to make pakis barbarians'. we all know they are already barbarians.

What the hell is he going to talk about anyway? Poor guy, he will be forced to face his Paki counterpart smiling through his teeth and will not be able to lay a hand on him or anything. Of course, I assume our DGMO will not be smiling himself...

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 09 Jan 2013 09:51

US does not rule out removing all troops from Afghanistan
http://dawn.com/2013/01/09/us-does-not- ... ghanistan/

WASHINGTON: The Obama administration does not rule out a complete withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan after 2014, the White House said on Tuesday, just days before President Barack Obama is due to meet Afghan President Hamid Karzai.The comments by US Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes were the clearest signal yet that, despite initial recommendations by the top military commander in Afghanistan to keep as many as 15,000 troops in the country, Obama could opt to remove everyone, as happened in Iraq in 2011.Asked about consideration of a so-called zero-option once the Nato combat mission ends at the end of 2014, Rhodes said: “That would be an option that we would consider.”Rhodes made clear that a decision on post-2014 troop levels is not expected for months and will be made based on two US security objectives in Afghanistan — denying a safe haven to al Qaeda and ensuring Afghan forces are trained and equipped so that they, and not foreign forces, can secure the nation.“There are, of course, many different ways of accomplishing those objectives, some of which might involve US troops, some of which might not,” Rhodes said, briefing reporters to preview Karzai’s visit.In Iraq, Obama decided to pull out all US forces after failing in negotiations with the Iraqi government to secure immunity for any US troops who would remain behind.The Obama administration is also insisting on immunity for any US troops that remain in Afghanistan, and that unsettled question will figure in this week’s talks between Obama and Karzai and their aides.“As we know from our Iraq experience, if there are no authorities granted by the sovereign state, then there’s no room for a follow-on US military mission,” said Douglas Lute, special assistant to Obama for Afghanistan and Pakistan.Jeffrey Dressler, an Afghanistan expert at the Washington-based Institute for the Study of War who favours keeping a larger presence in Afghanistan, questioned whether the White House comments might be part of a US bargaining strategy with Kabul.

wig · Post by **wig** » 09 Jan 2013 10:28

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
the paki soldiers responsible belong to29 Balouch

In the first incident of its kind after November 2003 ceasefire and second during over two and a half decades long militancy which fueled hostilities between India and Pakistan, the Pakistani troops, believed to be commandos, today intruded about 600 meters deep inside the Indian territory on the Line of Control (LoC) at Mankot sector in Mendhar tehsil of Poonch district, ambushed an Army patrol, killed two jawans and injured two others. They chopped off heads of two deceased jawans and took away one of the head with them while fleeing back along with their service weapons and other material including magazines. The intrusion by a group of nearly a dozen Pakistan Army personnel of 29 Balouch deep inside the Indian territory, who were on a stealth mission, killing of two Army soldiers and taking away the head of one of them and weapons

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jan 2013 10:31

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
"We will strongly register our protest with the Pakistan govt." - AK Antony. Army personnel I'm speaking to all letting out bitter laughs.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Jan 2013 10:47

[secretary is searching something in the piles of papers. Antony enters]
Antony: have u not found the letter yet?
S: no sir, but should be here somewhere...ah here it it sir. your last letter of protest to the pakistani government.
Antony: good. let me see [reads] "we protest blah blah blah". hmm change the date and add 'strong' before 'protest'. that will do
S: do you want to say 'very strong' sir?
Antony: dont be a fool. save it for something bigger
S: how wise of you sir. really you r an inspiration sir
Antony: i am aint I? Is that all? dont I have something else to sign today?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Jan 2013 10:48

Before Indian Army accuses Pakistani Army of beheading its soldiers, they need to remember that Pakistani Army is itself a frequent victim of beheading.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Jan 2013 10:49

Abhijitm

You forgot "Theek Hain?"

wig · Post by **wig** » 09 Jan 2013 10:50

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
continuing the narrative

Official sources told the Excelsior that a group of nearly 12 Pakistan Army jawans of 29 Balouch, all of whom were believed to be commandos going by the black dresses they were wearing from head to toe, ambushed a patrol party of five Army jawans between Chatri and Atma posts in Mankot sector in Mendhar tehsil after intruding about 600 meters deep inside the Indian territory in broad day light at 11.30 am ahead of the fencing today and opened indiscriminate firing on the jawans, who retaliated.

As Pakistani troops (commandos) outnumbered the area domination patrol party of Indian Army comprising five soldiers of 13 Raj Rifles, two Army jawans were killed on spot and the intruders injured two others in the firing. The Pakistan Army personnel were reported to have beheaded two killed Army jawans and took the head of one of them along with them with their two AK-47 rifles to Pakistan.

A senior officer without saying that head of one of the jawan was taken by the Pakistan Army confirmed that body of one of the jawans was badly mutilated.

The Pakistani troops fled back to their installations within few minutes.

The dead Army jawans have been identified as Lance Naik Hem Raj R/o Mathura, UP and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh R/o Jhansar, MP. Two Army jawans were injured in the firing. Army personnel from their nearby posts rushed to the spot soon after hearing the sound of gun shots and launched an operation. The troops saw Pakistan Army personnel, who were commandos of Border Action Team (BAT) of 29 Balouch, fleeing towards their forward Barbad and PP posts, opposite Mankot sector of Mendhar tehsil. The Pakistan action team also took away two service weapons of the deceased Army jawans with them.

Army jawans shifted the bodies to the hospital. Two injured soldiers were airlifted to Command Hospital in Udhampur. Army has videographed and photographed the spot as evidence to lodge protest with Pakistan Army for their brutal and gruesome act of killing Army jawans in the stealth mission by intruding inside the Indian territory.

Sources said the area where the incident took place was well ahead of border fencing.

"It was a stealth mission i.e. a very well planned operation in which Pakistan Army commandos had been maintaining vigil and looking for the area where there was very less presence of the Indian troops. As only five jawans were part of the patrolling between Chatri and Atma posts and other forward Indian positions were located at quite a distance, they picked up the spot and raided it. The entire operation might have lasted just 5 to 10 minutes and the Pakistani troops managed to escape before the arrival of other jawans on the spot’’, they added.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2013 10:54

wig wrote:http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
the paki soldiers responsible belong to29 Balouch
In the first incident of its kind after November 2003 ceasefire and second during over two and a half decades long militancy which fueled hostilities between India and Pakistan, the Pakistani troops, believed to be commandos, today intruded about 600 meters deep inside the Indian territory on the Line of Control (LoC) at Mankot sector in Mendhar tehsil of Poonch district, ambushed an Army patrol, killed two jawans and injured two others. They chopped off heads of two deceased jawans and took away one of the head with them while fleeing back along with their service weapons and other material including magazines. The intrusion by a group of nearly a dozen Pakistan Army personnel of 29 Balouch deep inside the Indian territory, who were on a stealth mission, killing of two Army soldiers and taking away the head of one of them and weapons

It has been posted in the IA thread in mil forum already.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 09 Jan 2013 11:06

RamaY wrote:Abhijitm

You forgot "Theek Hain?"

kya saar we are laughing at our own misfortune

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Jan 2013 11:19

abhijitm wrote:
RamaY wrote:Abhijitm

You forgot "Theek Hain?"
kya saar we are laughing at our own misfortune

Jab pooray desh ka cartoon bana diya hai hamare sarkar ne, to aam abdul aur kya kar sakta hai?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Jan 2013 11:29

From twitter:

‏@GabbbarSingh India is Hulk in reverse, Looks huge & mean when it's normal, gets smaller and puny when angered. #LoC