Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[disha]

Cong discovers Swami Vivekananda

^^^ Sonia Mao and Ma Maino Sigh got religion

Hundereds rats killed and cat hajj for went.

[johneeG]

Cong discovers Swami Vivekananda

Great man... Hindu Lion... Hinduism needs swamis of this mold. Even after 150yrs, the treacherous EJs and their mindless desi/videsi supporters fear the man and have to resort to pathetic methods to malign him. That in itself shows his impact.

It was Swami Vivekananda who planted the seed of Vedanta and Yoga in the west. He was also first one to cross the seas and go into a foreign land(in colonial times, mind you) and take on them. Can't even imagine this sort of thing. And he lived for merely

Truly, Hinduism is alive due to the efforts of fearless great men like these. And he lived for merely 39 years. He was born in that kind of tradition: Adi Shankara's disciple lineage. Adi Shankara lived for merely 32 years and had a lasting impact on Hinduism.

I think the true contrast of ideas is Hindu and EJ. The dynasty is batting for EJs and Modi from Hindu side. When one talks of dynasty, one is not talking of any dynasty, but a specific dynasty which has been at the helm of power for the longest time after 1947. This dynasty has motivated other local satraps to start their own dynasties. I am not against all dynasty, per say. I am against a specific dynasty. Because they have been a constant failure and have perpetuated their power at the cost of interests of the people. That said, there is an inherent disadvantage in all dynasties. The problem with any dynasty is that it is easy to control for foreign and local ones(just like a dictator is easy to install and control). A democratic system if far more difficult to control.

There should be no doubt that many foreign and local players seek to control the rulers(and their successors). A dynasty(especially if its current crop are imbeciles or idiots) is able to survive only when it allows itself to be used by the foreign and local players. It is like a local satrap inviting a foreign invasion on his own country, so that his dynasty can survive. This is the problem with leaders that have no legitimacy(in terms of merit or performance) of their own. And if that leader is part of a dynasty, then the problem gets multiplied.

Mostly, a dynasty produces one or two efficient leaders(if at all). Others are mediocre who survive on past laurels. These mediocre ones are capable of (and end up doing) much damage to the interests of the people.

Anyway, if a leader is so capable, then he does not need to fall back on 'dynastic credentials'. If 'dynastic credentials' are tom-tom-med too much, it indicates that the leader lacks any other ability except the 'family background'. That is the difference between Modi and THE dynasty.

This particular dynasty is now passed on to non-Indians and has become a major supporter of EJism and Islamism in India and abroad. The concept of secularism has been distorted to the extent that the dynasty sycophants like DiggyRaja even raise doubts on whether 26/11 was a saffron terror. The founder of the dynasty seems to have had virulent hatred for all things Hindu and absolute devotion to all things western(particularly brit).

In my mind, this dynasty is on the side of EJs and Modi represents the fight back of locals to EJs. EJs have always been foreign funded and foreign agents. In India, EJs have collaborated with the Islamists and communists to try and subjugate the locals. Communists have also been foreign funded. And petro-dollars have been funding the Islamists. All of them have a common goal of eliminating the local culture and enslaving the local masses.

From their view, all Indian ideas are worthless. India deserves to follow the instructions of their masters. The only difference among them is who that master should be: should it be china/russia? or should it be US/UK? or should it be Arabia?

Over the years, such has been their strong alliance in India that the lines differentiating commies, islamists and EJs have blurred in India. All of them latch on to any and every opportunity to heckle Hindus and denigrate Hinduism on real, imagine or perceived faults.

This is the true contrast of ideas. They seek to destroy Indian culture, impoverish Indians, and dismantle India's territorial integrity. They happily support the invaders. Islamists welcome the paki assaults, while commies welcome the invasions by china. EJs welcome the subterfuge of their western funders... all at the expense of the common Indian.

This is the contrast of ideas. Islamists believe that India was created by the Islamic invaders only. India was enlightened by the islamic culture only. Before that, it was jahilya. Islamists see themselves as the heirs of the islamic invaders. Similarly, EJs believe that India was created by the brit invaders only. India was enlightened by the brit culture only. Before that, it was jahilya. EJs believe that they are the heirs to the brit invaders. Commies believe that it is communism that will enlighten India, until then it is still jahilya.

All of them share a contempt for all things local. They believe in deliberately keeping the natives poor, powerless, divided and subjugated. They hate any attempts by the natives to gain power or unite or free themselves.

Dynasty represents all of them(particularly EJs). The failures of the dynasty are covered up as the failures of the natives. 'Hindu rate of growth' is borne from that kind of thinking. Instead of blaming the rulers for slow growth, it is the masses(and their religion) which was blamed for the slow growth. This is their idea. Modi represents the opposite side of the spectrum. He has shown what is truly hindu rate of growth in Gujarat.


So, there are two sides here: Hindus and Anti-Hindus.

[johneeG]

^^^
Since this thread is about ideas:

The spokesman for Hinduism in the next dialogue between Hinduism and Christianity was Swami Vivekananda (1863-1902). A significant feature of this dialogue was that, for the most part, it was held in the homelands of Christianity. Vivekananda not only carried the message of Hinduism to the USA and Europe during his two trips from 1893 to 1897 and from 1899 to 1900, he also turned the tide against Christianity in India so far as educated, upper class Hindus were concerned. Henceforward, Christian missionaries would reap a harvest either in the tribal belts or during famines when charitable organisations abroad and a patronising government at home placed funds for relief at their disposal and Hindu orphans fell into their hands in large numbers.

Vivekananda himself symbolised an irony of that system of education which had been deliberately designed to demolish Hinduism and promote Christianity. He was himself a product of that very education, but he turned against Christianity and in defence of Hinduism the knowledge and intellectual discipline which he had acquired as a student in a missionary college.

The renewal of East India Company�s Charter in 1813 had opened the Company�s dominions to Christian missionaries. It had also advised �introduction of useful knowledge and religious and moral improvement.� A controversy had been going on ever since regarding the system of education suitable for India. The Orientalists among the British rulers advocated retention of the traditional Indian system. They were afraid that imparting of Western knowledge to natives would encourage them to claim equality with white men and demand democratisation of the administration. The Anglicists, on the other hand, were convinced that knowledge of Western literature, philosophy and science would wean Hindus away from their �ancestral superstitions� and draw them closer to the religion and culture of the ruling race.

Christian missionaries were, by and large, with the Anglicists. One of them had written in 1822 that, through Western education, Hindus �now engaged in the degrading and polluting worship of idols shall be brought to the knowledge of true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.�1 Missionaries felt immensely strengthened when Alexander Duff, an ardent advocate of Western education, reached Calcutta in 1830.

Alexander Duff was convinced that �of all the systems of false religion ever fabricated by the perverse ingenuity of fallen men, Hinduism is surely the most stupendous�2 and that India was �the chief seat of Satan�s earthly dominion.�3 He studied for some time the effect which Western education was having on Hindu young men attending the Hindu College and similar institutions which had come up in Calcutta and elsewhere in Bengal since more than a decade before his arrival. He came to the definite conclusion that Western education would make the Hindus �perfect unbelievers in their own system� and �perfect believers in Christianity.� In an address delivered in 1835 to a General Church Assembly he proclaimed that knowledge of Western literature and science would �demolish the huge and hideous fabric of Hinduism� brick by brick till �the whole will be found to have crumbled into fragments.�4

A Committee of Public Instruction had been set up by the Government for recommending a suitable system of education. Alexander Duff had been made a member of the Committee in 1834. Next year, T. B. Macaulay, a member of the Governor General�s Council, was appointed to preside over the Committee. He wrote a Minute on February 2, 1835, advocating Western education. There was a tie between the Anglicists and the Orientalists when the Minute came before the Committee on March 7. Macaulay used his casting vote and forced a decision. The Western system of education was adopted. In a letter written to his father in 1836, Macaulay predicated, �It is my firm belief that if our plans of education are followed up, there will not be a single idolator among the respectable classes of Bengal thirty years hence.�5
...

The fond hope that Hinduism will die out before long was expressed by Richard Temple before a Christian audience in England in 1883. �India is like a mighty bastion,� he wrote, �which is being battered by heavy artillery. We have given blow after blow, and thud after thud, and the effect is not at first very remarkable; but at last with a crash the mighty structure will come toppling down, and it is our hope that some day the heathen religions of India will in like manner succumb.�7 At the same time, he felt sure that Christianity had a very bright future in India. �But we are not chasing a shadow,� he continued, �we are not rolling a Sisyphean stone, we are not ascending an inaccessible hill; or, if we are going up hill, it is that sort of ascent which soon leads to a summit, from which we shall survey the promised land. And when we reach the top what prospect shall we see? We shall see churches in India raising up their spires towards heaven, Christian villages extending over whole tracts of country, churches crowded with dusky congregations and dusky communicants at the altar tables. We shall hear the native girls singing hymns in the vernacular, and see boys trooping to school or studying for the universities under missionary auspices. Those things, and many others, I have seen, and would to God I could fix them on the minds of my audience as they are fixed upon my own.�8 Vivekananda shattered the hope and the dream in the next decade.

Narendranath Datta, who was to become Swami Vivekananda, was born in 1863, the year when Alexander Duff left India well satisfied that Hinduism was on its way out and Christianity on its way in, at least in Bengal. Macaulay�s prediction appeared to be coming true as there had been a spate of conversions to Christianity. In 1832 Alexander Duff had converted Krishnamohan Banerji, a student of the Hindu College. Banerji, in turn, converted fifty-nine young men in the next few years. He became a minister of the Christ Church and was �instrumental in converting several hundred Hindus in Krishnanagar in 1839.�9 The other important converts made by Duff were K. C. Banerji and M. L. Basak in 1839 and Lal Behari De and Madhusudan Dutta in 1843.

Leaders of the Brahmo Samaj were perturbed and tried to arrest the trend. A meeting held in Calcutta in May 1845 and attended by a thousand Hindus, gave a call that Hindus should not send their boys to missionary schools and colleges. Some funds were collected for promoting Hindu educational and humanitarian institutions. But their efforts did not make much headway. The missionaries commanded much larger resources and official patronage. There was a craze for Western education which was thought best when imparted in missionary institutions. Moreover, the coming of Keshub Chunder Sen to the top in the Brahmo Samaj gave a further blow to Hinduism. He was infatuated with Jesus and the Bible and made hysterical outbursts in praise of both.

The only resolute defender of Hinduism in this intellectually hostile atmosphere was Bankim Chandra Chatterji. He was well-versed in Western literature and philosophy and his knowledge of Hindu Shastras and history was deep as well as discerning. He had come to the definite conclusion that Hindus had nothing to learn from Christianity. For him, Jesus was �an incomplete man�, the Christian God �a despot� and the Christian doctrine of everlasting punishment �devilish�. He repudiated the missionary accusation that Hinduism was responsible for corruptions that had crept into Hindu society in the course of history. �If the principles of Christianity,� he wrote, �are not responsible for the slaughter of the crusades, the butcheries of Alva, the massacre of St. Bartholomew or the flames of the Inquisition... If the principles of Christianity are not responsible for the civil disabilities of Roman Catholics and Jews which till recently disgraced the English Statute Book, I do not understand how the principles of Hinduism are to be held responsible for the civil disabilities of the sudras under the Brahmanic regime. The critics of Hinduism have one measure for their own religion and another for Hinduism.�10 For him, Sri Krishna was the highest ideal, both human and divine. His novels and essays were creating a consciousness of pride in the Hindu heritage in that large section of Hindu society which had not yet passed under the spell of Jesus.

Narendranath was a student in Alexander Duffs General Assembly�s Institution which later on became the Scottish Church College. He had made a wide study of Western literature, history and philosophy, had joined the Brahmo Samaj and come to share Keshub Chunder Sen�s admiration for Jesus. But a turning point came in his life when he met Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa in November 1880. For the first time, he was face to face with a powerful expression of Hindu spirituality and that, too, in a simple man who had not been even to a primary school. His travels all over India after Sri Ramakrishna�s death gave him further glimpses of how Hindu spirituality had percolated effortlessly to the lowest levels of Hindu society. He was thus in a position to process Christianity from the vantage point of a new vision. In the end, he frustrated Alexanders Duff�s hope and falsified Macaulay�s and Temple�s prediction.

Sri Ramakrishna had never heard of Jesus till Jesus was thrust under his nose by those disciples who had come to him from the fold of Keshub Chunder Sen. Mahendra Nath Gupta, whose record of the talks of Sri Ramakrishna was to become famous as The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna had an infantile fascination for Jesus and never missed an opportunity to compare the sayings and doings of Jesus with those of the Paramahamsa. But to the last, Jesus remained for Sri Ramakrishna only a figure which people belonging to a foreign religion worshipped as God. He did not have even a remote knowledge of the dogmas of Christianity. The only dogma, that of the original sin, which was presented to him by some disciples, he repudiated with repugnance. �Once someone gave me,� he said on October 27, 1882, �a book of the Christians. I asked him to read it to me. It talked about nothing but sin.� Turning to Keshub Chunder Sen, who was present, he continued, �Sin is the only thing one hears at your Brahmo Samaj too... He who says day and night, �I am a sinner, I am a sinner�, verily becomes a sinner... Why should one only talk about sin and hell, and such things?�11 Thus he knocked the bottom out of Christianity. Without sin, there was no need for the atoning death of a historical saviour.

Vivekananda carried forward the same idea. �The greatest error,� he said, �is to call a man a weak and miserable sinner. Every time a person thinks in this mistaken manner, he rivets one more link in the chain of avidyA that binds him, adds one more layer to the �self-hypnotism� that lies heavy over his mind.�12 He compared the Hindu and Christian concepts of the soul. �One of the chief distinctions,� he said, �between the Vedic and the Christian religion is that the Christian religion teaches that each human soul had its beginning at its birth into this world, whereas the Vedic religion asserts that the spirit of man is an emanation of the Eternal Being and has no more a beginning than God Himself.�13 He hailed humans as Children of Immortal Bliss - amritasya putrAH - in the language of the Upanishads. �Ye are the children of God,� he proclaimed while addressing the Parliament of Religions, �the sharers of immortal bliss, holy and perfect beings. Ye divinities on earth - sinners! It is a sin to call man so; it is a standing libel on human nature. Come up, lions! and shake off the delusion that you are sheep; you are souls immortal, spirits free, blest and eternal.�14

Vivekananda repudiated the idea of vicarious saving also. He proclaimed the Hindu doctrine that everyone has to work out his own salvation. �The Christians believe,� he said, �that Jesus Christ died to save man. With you it is belief in a doctrine, and this belief constitutes your salvation. With us doctrine has nothing whatever to do with salvation. Each one may believe in whatever doctrine he likes; or in no doctrine. What difference does it make to you whether Jesus Christ lived at a certain time or not? What has it to do with you that Moses saw God in the burning bush? The fact that Moses saw God in the burning bush does not constitute your seeing him, does it?... Records of great spiritual men in the past do us no good whatever except that they urge us onward to do the same, to experience religion ourselves. Whatever Christ or Moses or anybody else did, does not help us in the least, except to urge us on.�15

He was aware that the historicity of Christ had become highly controversial among scholars of the subject. �There is a great dispute,� he wrote, �as to whether there ever was born a man with the name of Jesus. Of the four books comprising the New Testament, the Book of St. John has been rejected by some as spurious. As to the remaining three, the verdict is that they have been copied from ancient books; and that, too, long after the date ascribed to Jesus Christ. Moreover, about the time that Jesus is believed to have been born, among the Jews themselves there were born two historians, Josephus and Philo. They have mentioned even petty sects among the Jews but not made the least reference to Jesus or the Christians or that the Roman judge sentenced him to death on the cross. Josephus� book had a single line about it, which has now been proved to be an interpolation. The Romans used to rule over the Jews at that time, and the Greeks taught them all arts and Sciences. They have all written a good many things about the Jews but made no mention of either Jesus or the Christians.� He also knew that doubts had been raised whether Jesus had himself said what was attributed to him in the gospels. �Another difficulty,� he continued, �is that the sayings, precepts, or doctrines which the New Testament preaches were already in existence among the Jews before the Christian era, having come from different quarters, and were being preached by Rabbis like Hillel and others.�16

The miracles of Christ also failed to impress Vivekananda. In fact, they repelled him strongly. �What were the great powers of Christ,� he asked, �in miracles and healing, in one of his characters? They were low, vulgar things because he was among vulgar beings... Any fool could do those things. Fools heal others, devils can heal others. I have seen horrible demoniacal men do wonderful miracles. They seem to manufacture fruits out of the earth. I have known fools and diabolical men tell the past, present and future. I have seen fools heal at a glance, by the will, the most horrible diseases. These are powers, truly, but often demoniacal powers.�17

And he was not at all interested in the historical Jesus. �One gets sick at heart,� he said, �at the different accounts of the life of the Christ that Western people give. One would make him a great politician; another, perhaps, would make of him a great military general, another a great patriotic Jew; and so on.�18

...

Yet it was Christ that Vivekananda found missing from Christianity. He wondered which Church, if any, represented Christ. All churches were equally intolerant, each threatening to kill those who did not believe as it did.22 The person of Christ rather than his teaching had become more important for Christianity. He had been turned into the �only begotten son of God.�23 Christian baptism remained external and did not touch the inner man. It aimed at instilling some mental beliefs and not at transforming human behaviour. Most men remained the same after baptism as they were before it. What was worse, the mere sprinkling of water over them and muttering of formulas by a priest made them believe that they were better than other people. He quoted the Kenopanishad in this context: �Ever steeped in the darkness of ignorance, yet considering themselves wise and learned, the fools go round and round, staggering to and fro like the blind led by the blind.�24 The Eucharist was nothing more than the survival of a savage custom. �They sometimes killed their great chiefs,� said Vivekananda, �and ate their flesh in order to obtain in themselves the qualities which made their leaders great.� Human sacrifice was a Jewish idea which was borrowed by Christianity �in the form of atonement.� This seeking for a �scapegoat� had made Christianity �develop a spirit of persecution and bloodshed.�25


Christian missionaries were attacking the Puranas for containing passages which they considered somewhat obscene. Vivekananda had studied the Bible and knew that it contained a lot which was downright *****. But he had his own method of exposing the Bible. �The Chinese,� he wrote, �are the disciples of Confucius, are the disciples of Buddha, and their morality is quite strict and refined. Obscene language, obscene books, pictures, any conduct the least obscene - and the offender is punished then and there. The Christian missionaries translated the Bible into Chinese tongue. Now in the Bible there are some passages so obscene as to put to shame some of the Puranas of the Hindus. Reading those indecorous passages, the Chinamen were so exasperated against Christianity that they made a point of never allowing the Bible to be circulated in their country� The simpleminded Chinese were disgusted, and raised a cry, saying: Oh, horror! This religion has come to us to ruin our young boys, by giving them this Bible to read� This is why the Chinese are very indignant with Christianity. Otherwise the Chinese are very tolerant towards other religions. I hear that the missionaries have printed an edition, leaving out the objectionable parts; but this step has made the Chinese more suspicious than before.�26

The history of Christianity in Europe and elsewhere had simply horrified Vivekananda, as it does any person with any moral sensibility. Besides being blood-soaked, Christianity has been inimical to all free enquiry. �The ancient Greeks,� wrote Vivekananda, �who were the first teachers of European civilisation attained the zenith of their culture long before the Christians. Ever since they became Christians, all their learning and culture was extinguished.�27 When he was passing by Egypt on his way to Europe, a missionary mentioned to him the miracles which, according to the Bible, Moses had performed in that country. But Vivekananda had read history. He knew the record of Christianity in Egypt. �Here was the city of Alexandria,� he said, �famous all over the world for its university, its library, and its literati - that Alexandria which, falling into the hands of illiterate, bigoted and vulgar Christians suffered destruction, with its library burnt to ashes and learning stamped out. Finally, the Christians killed the lady savant, Hypatia, subjected her dead body to all sorts of abominable insult, and dragged it through the streets, till every bit of flesh was removed from her bones.�28

Christianity had spread with the help of the sword since the days of Constantine and tried to suppress science and philosophy. �What support,� asked Vivekananda, �has Christianity ever lent to the spread of civilisation, either spiritual or secular? What reward did the Christian religion offer to the European Pandit who sought to prove for the first time that the Earth is a revolving planet? What scientist has ever been hailed with approval and enthusiasm by the Christian Church?� Coming to modem times, Vivekananda found Christianity very vindictive: �The great thinkers of Europe Voltaire, Darwin, Buchner, Flammarion, Victor Hugo and a host of others like him � are in the present time denounced by Christianity and are victims of vituperative tongues of its orthodox community.�29

Christian missionaries in India were crediting to Christianity the rise and progress of modern Europe. This was a great falsehood. �Whatever heights of progress Europe has attained,� continued Vivekananda, �every one of them has been gained by its revolt against Christianity - by its rising against the Gospel. If Christianity had its old paramount sway in Europe today, it would have lighted the fire of the Inquisition against such modern scientists as Pasteur and Koch, and burnt Darwin and others of his school at the stake. In modern Europe Christianity and civilization are two different things. Civilization has now girded up her loins to destroy her old enemy, Christianity, to overthrow the clergy and to wring educational and charitable institutions from their hands. But for the ignorance-ridden rustic masses, Christianity would never have been able for a moment to support its present despised existence, and would have been pulled out by its roots; for the urban poor are, even now, enemies of the Christian Church!�30

Christian missionaries were citing the prosperity of the modern West as an example of the superiority of Christianity. Much of that prosperity, however, was derived from the plunder of other peoples. �We who have come from the East,� he said in an interview to a U.S. newspaper on September 29, 1893, �have sat here day after day and have been told to accept Christianity because Christian nations are the most prosperous. We look about us and see England, the most prosperous Christian nation in the world, with her foot on the neck of 250,000,000 Asiatics. We look back into history and see that the prosperity of Christian Europe began with Spain. Spain�s prosperity began with the invasion of Mexico. Christianity wins its prosperity by cutting the throats of its fellow men. At such a price the Hindu will not have prosperity. I have sat here and heard the height of intolerance. I have heard the creed of Moslems applauded, when the Moslem sword is carrying destruction into India. Blood and sword are not for the Hindu, whose religion is based on the laws of love.�31 The newspaper described it as a �savage attack on Christian nations.� Vivekananda had a lot to say on Western colonialism and the massacre of natives in America, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere. But that is not the subject at present.

What really amazed him was the utter lack of logic in Christian propaganda. �On metaphysical lines,� he wrote on his return to India in 1897, �no nation on earth can hold a candle to the Hindus; and curiously all the fellows that come over here from Christian lands have that one antiquated foolishness of an argument that because the Christians are powerful and rich and Hindus are not, so Christianity must be better than Hinduism. To which the Hindus very aptly retort that, that is the very reason why Hinduism is a religion and Christianity is not; because in this beastly world, it is blackguardism and that alone which prospers, virtue always suffers.�32

Hindus have nothing to gain from Christianity as it is only a system of superstitions. Hindus should not get frightened when the missionaries threaten them with hell; in fact, hell is better than the company of a Christian missionary. �There came a Christian to me once,� recalled Vivekananda, �and said, �You are a terrible sinner.� I said, �Yes, I am. Go on.� He was a Christian missionary. That man would not give me any rest. When I see him I fly. He said, �I have very good things for you. You are a sinner and you will go to hell.� I said, �Very good, what else?� I asked him, �Where are you going?� �I am going to heaven,� he answered. I said, �I will go to hell.� �That day he gave me up.� If Christ could help people become good, why has he failed in the Christian countries where he has been worshipped for so long? �Here comes a Christian man,� continued Vivekananda, �and he says, �You are all doomed; but if you believe in this doctrine, Christ will help you out.� If this were true - but of course it is nothing but superstition - there would be no wickedness in Christian countries. Let us believe in it - belief costs nothing - but why is there no result? If I ask, �Why is it that there are so many wicked people?� They say, �We have to work more.� Trust in God but keep your power dry!�33

Criticism of Christianity, however, was not the primary task which Vivekananda had set for himself. He was first and foremost an exponent of Hinduism. He had to speak out about Christianity because the missionaries forced it upon him by their unceasing sallies against Hinduism. This is not the occasion even for a summary of his voluminous writings and speeches on various aspects of the subject he loved above all. We shall only touch a few points which he upheld against missionary attack.

...

Brahmanas were the next target of missionary attack. Vivekananda stood by these custodians of Hinduism. �The ideal man of our ancestors,� he said, �was the Brahmin. In all our books stands out prominently this ideal of the Brahmin. In Europe there is my Lord the Cardinal, who is struggling hard and spending thousands of pounds to prove the nobility of his ancestors and he will not be satisfied until he has traced his ancestry to some dreadful tyrant who lived on a hill and watched the people passing by, and whenever he had the opportunity, sprang out and robbed them... In India, on the other hand, the greatest princes seek to trace their descent to .some ancient sage who dressed in a bit of loin cloth, lived in a forest, eating roots and studying the Vedas... You are of the high caste when you can trace your ancestry to a Rishi, and not otherwise... Our ideal is the Brahmin of spiritual culture and renunciation.�37

Another practice of Hinduism which the missionaries never missed pillorying was idolatry. �It has become a trite saying,� said Vivekananda, �that idolatry is wrong and every man swallows it without questioning. I once thought so, and to pay the penalty of that I had to learn my lesson sitting at the feet of a man who realised everything through idols. I allude to Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. If such Ramakrishna Paramahamsas are produced by idol-worship, what will you have - the reformer�s creed or any number of idols? I want an answer. Take a thousand idols more if you can produce Ramakrishna Paramahamsas through idol-worship, and may God speed you! Produce such noble natures by any means you can. Yet idolatry is condemned! Why? Nobody knows. Because some hundreds of years ago some man of Jewish blood happened to condemn it? That is, he happened to condemn everybody else�s idols except his own. If God is represented in any beautiful form or any symbolic form, said the Jew, it is awfully bad; it is sin. But if He is represented in the form of a chest, with two angels sitting on each side, and a cloud hanging over it, it is the holy of holies. If God comes in the form of a dove, it is holy. But if He comes in the form of a cow, it is heathen superstition; condemn it! That is how the world goes. That is why the poet says, �what fools we mortals be!�... Boys, moustached babies, who never went out of Madras, standing up and wanting to dictate laws to three hundred millions of people who have thousands of traditions at their back!�38

Lastly, he defended the caste system, the bete noire of all missionaries and reformers inspired by them. �Caste is a very good thing,� he said. �Caste is the plan we want to follow... There is no country in the world without caste. In India, from caste we reach the point where there is no caste. Caste is based throughout on that principle. The plan in India is to make everybody a Brahmin, the Brahmin being the ideal of humanity. If you read the history of India you will find that attempts have always been made to raise the lower classes. Many are the classes that have been raised. Many more will follow till the whole will become Brahmin. That is the plan. We have to raise them without bringing down anybody... Indian caste is better than the caste which prevails in Europe or America. I do not say it is absolutely good. Where would you be if there were no caste? Where would be your learning and other things, if there were no caste? There would be nothing left for Europeans to study if caste had never existed. The Mohammedans would have smashed everything to pieces.�39 Caste was never a stationary institution. �Caste is continually changing,� said Vivekananda, �rituals are continually changing. it is the substance, the principle that does not change... Caste should not go; but should only he readjusted occasionally. Within the old structure is to be found life enough for the building of two hundred thousand new ones. It is sheer nonsense to desire the abolition of caste. The new method is - evolution of the old.�40

The great strength of Hinduism is that it does not lay down one dogma for everybody as is the case with Christianity and Islam. �The fault with all religions like Christianity,� said Vivekananda, �is that they have one set of rules for all. But Hindu religion is suited to all grades of religious aspiration and progress. It contains all the ideas in their perfect form.�41 A universality which does not preserve individuality is false. �Individuality in universality,� he continued, �is the plan of creation... Man is individual and at the same time .universal. It is while raising the individual that we realise even our national and universal nature.�42 It is because of this spirit of universality that Hinduism has never been a persecuting religion: �You know that the Hindu religion never persecutes. It is the land where all sects may live in peace and unity. The Mohammedans brought murder and slaughter in their train, but until their arrival peace prevailed.�43

The hour had come for Hinduism to carry its message abroad once more: �India was once a great missionary power. Hundreds of years before England was converted to Christianity, Buddha sent out missionaries to convert the world of Asia to his doctrine.�44 Vivekananda had himself given the lead. �I have planted the seed,� he wrote from America to the Raja of Khetri, �in this country; it is already a plant, and I expect it to be a tree very soon. The more the Christian priests oppose me, the more I am determined to leave a permanent mark on their country.�45

It was natural that Christian missionaries should notice Vivekananda the moment he spoke at the Parliament of Religions. They had never heard of the man before. They went into action in both the U.S.A. and India and were joined by some Brahmos of Keshub�s school. �They joined,� reported Vivekananda in a speech at Madras soon after his return, �the other opposition - the Christian missionaries. There is not one black lie imaginable that these latter did not invent against me. They blackened my character from city to city, poor and friendless though I was in a foreign country. They tried to oust me from every house and make every man who became my friend my enemy. They tried to starve me out.� At the same time he hit out at the Brahmo leaders who saw salvation of India through Christianity. �I am sorry to say,� added Vivekananda, �that one of my own countrymen took part against me in this. He is the leader of a reform party in India. This gentleman is declaring every day, �Christ has come to India.� Is this the way Christ is to come to India?� Is that the lesson that he had learnt after sitting twenty years at the feet of Christ? Our great reformers declare that Christianity and Christian power are going to uplift the Indian people. Is that the way to do it? Surely, if that gentleman is an illustration, it does not look very hopeful.�46

J. Murrary Mitchell who was working as a missionary in India at that time reacted adversely to reports about Vivekananda�s popularity in the U.S.A. �We fear men from the East,� he wrote, �mistook politeness with which they were received as guests for sympathy with their opinions. Very singular at all events, have been the accounts that have been transmitted to Asia regarding the effect of their exposition of the Oriental creeds. They had carried the war into the enemy�s country, and were everywhere victorious.� He selected P. C. Mozumdar as the real representative of �advanced and intelligent Hindus� at the Parliament of Religions. Mozumdar had said, �Representatives of all religions, may all your religions merge in the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man, so that Christ�s prophecy may be fulfilled and mankind become one Kingdom under God as our Father.� Mr. Mitchell regretted that Mozumdar did not draw the applause he deserved because of his admiration for Christianity. �But Mr. Protap Chunder Mozumdar,� he said, �seems to have made much less impression than a young man who has assumed the honorofic title of Swami a step which Mr. [Keshub Chunder] Sen never ventured to take. Mr. Mozumdar appeared in plain Western dress, the Swami stood arrayed in all the colours of the rainbow. The ladies clustered around him in admiration.�(Too much manliness? )

What had hurt Mr. Mitchell the most was Vivekananda�s denunciation of the doctrine of sin. �We need not dwell,� he mourned, �on the Swami�s teaching. Let one specimen suffice.� He quoted verbatim what Vivekananda had said when he hailed people at the Parliament as �sharers of bliss� and �divinities on earth.� Vivekananda had hit Christianity in its solar plexus. How could Christianity thrive without selling sin? �We are truly sorry for the man,� concluded Mr. Mitchell, �who can thus trifle with his hearers with deeply solemn questions.�47

Vivekananda was rather mild in his criticism of missionaries when he spoke in the Parliament of Religions on September 29, 1893. �You Christians, who are so fond of sending out missionaries to save the soul of the heathen why do you not try to save their bodies from starvation?� You erect Churches all through India but-the crying evil in the East is not religion - they have religion enough - but it is bread that the suffering millions of burning India cry out for with parched throats... It is an insult to a starving people to offer them religion; it is an insult to a starving man to teach him metaphysics.� He knew that missionaries were not preaching purely out of religious zeal; they had chosen the mission as a career and were paid for it. �In India,� he said, �a priest who preached for money would lose caste and be spat upon by the people.�48

He spoke in the same Vein when he addressed the Parliament of Religions on October 11, 1893. �Christian missionaries,� he said, �come to offer life but only on condition that the Hindus became Christians, abandoning the faith of their fathers and forefathers. Is it right?� If you wish to illustrate the meaning of �brotherhood�, treat Hindus more kindly even though he be a Hindu and is faithful to his religion. Send missionaries to teach them how better to earn a piece of bread, and not teach them metaphysical nonsense.�49 But when he noticed that even his mild comments on missionary activities were received with great resentment in Christian circles, his tone became sharp. The Detroit Free Press dated February 21, 1894 reported a lecture which he had delivered on �Hindus and Christians�. Coming to Christian missionaries he said, �You train and educate and pay men to do what? To come over to my country to curse and abuse all my forefathers, my religion, and everything. They walk near a temple and say, �You idolators, you will go to hell.� But they dare not do that to the Mohammedans of India; the sword would be out. But the Hindu is too mild... And then you who train men to abuse and criticise, if I just touch you with the least bit of criticism, with the kindest purpose, you shrink and cry: �Don�t touch us; we are Americans. We criticise all the people in the world, curse them and abuse them, say anything, but do not touch us, we are sensitive plants?�� And whenever your ministers criticise us let them remember this: If all India stands up and takes all the mud that is at the bottom of the Indian ocean and throws it up against the Western countries, it will not be doing an infinitesimal part of that which you are doing to us. And what for? Did we ever send one missionary to convert anybody in the world? We say to you: �Welcome to your religion, but allow me to have mine?�... With all your brags and boastings, where has Christianity succeeded without the sword? Show me one place in the whole world. One I say, throughout the history of the Christian religion - one; I do not want two. I know how your forefathers were converted. They had to be converted or killed; that was all. What can you do better than Mohammedanism, with all your bragging?�50

As he heard the malicious propaganda against Hinduism which missionaries were mounting in America and saw �their methods of raising money�, he hit them hard. �What is meant,� he asked, �by those pictures in the school-books for children where the Hindu mother is painted as throwing her children to the crocodiles in the Ganga? The mother is black but the baby is painted white to arouse more sympathy, and get more money. What is meant by those pictures which paint a man burning his wife at a stake with his own hands, so that she becomes a ghost and torments the husband�s enemy? What is meant by the pictures of huge cars crushing over human beings? The other day a book was published for children in this country, where one of these gentlemen tells a narrative of his visit to Calcutta. He says he saw a car running over fanatics in the streets of Calcutta. I have heard one gentleman preach in Memphis that in every village of India there is a pond full of the bones of little children. What have the Hindus done to these disciples of Christ that every Christian child is taught to call the Hindus vile, and �wretches� and the most horrible devils on earth? Part of the Sunday School education for children here consists in teaching them to hate everybody who is not a Christian, and the Hindu especially, so that from their very childhood they may subscribe their pennies to the missions.�51

Vivekananda warned the missionaries about the effect which their propaganda was having on the moral and mental health of people who listened to them. �If not for the sake of truth,� he said, �for the sake of the morality of their own children, the Christian missionaries ought not to allow such things going on. Is it any wonder that such children grow up to be ruthless and cruel men and women?� A servant-girl in the employ of a friend of mine had to be sent to a lunatic asylum as a result of her attending what they call here a revivalist-preaching. The dose of hell-fire and brimstone was too much for her.�52

He saw how various missions were competing for collecting money and pouring calumny on each other. �Those to whom religion is a trade,� he observed, �are forced to become narrow and mischievous by their introduction into religion of the competitive, fighting and selfish methods of the world.�53 Having witnessed their ways, many educated Americans were losing respect for the missionaries. On the other hand, they were eager to listen to exponents of other cultures. �I have more friends,� he wrote in a letter to India in 1895, �than enemies, and only a small number of the educated care about the missionaries. Again, the very fact of the missionaries being against anything makes the educated like it. They are less of a power here now, and are becoming less so every day.�54

While Vivekananda caused a stir among the intellectual elite of America as was obvious from reports in the American press, the missionary circles were infuriated. �The Christian missionaries,� wrote The Indian Mirror on June 23, 1897, �rage and fume over the success of Swami Vivekananda�s mission in America. In its impotent fury, the Missionary Review of the World says that �Swami Vivekananda is simply a specimen of the elation and inflation of a weak man over the adulation of some silly people. If America ever gives up Christ, it will be for the devil, not Buddha or Brahma or Confucius. It will be lapse into utter apostasy, unbelief and infidelity.� The writer, when penning these lines, was evidently under a fit of insanity brought on by the unlooked for spectacle of a Hindu preacher making disciples among American members of the Christian Church.�55

The Christian Literature Society which had its headquarters in London and a branch in Madras published a book, Swami Vivekananda and his Guru with letters from prominent Americans on the alleged programme of Vedantism in United States, in 1897. The book was reviewed by The Indian Mirror which wrote, �The object of the first part of this book is to show that, on account of his Shudra birth and for his want of knowledge as well as on the part of his Guru, Vivekananda is not qualified for teaching the Vedanta; that he, in consequence of his doings, is not entitled to be called a �Swami�;

...

Rev. Dr. W. W. White, Secretary to the College Young Men�s Christian Association of Calcutta, had written to �a number of ladies and gentlemen of America, mostly belonging to missions and educational institutions� in order to find out if there was any �likelihood of America abandoning Christianity and adopting� Hinduism� in its stead.� The replies he had received were reproduced in the second part of the above-mentioned book. �Some of the writers say,� continued The Indian Mirror, �that the Swami made no impression on the people, while some others asserted that the Swami may have made a few converts, but such converts were vaccilators and seekers of novelty. All of them consoled the enquirers with the assurance that Christianity had made a firm footing in America and there was no fear of its being Supplanted by any other religion.�56

...

There was a corollary to Vivekananda�s defence of Hinduism and critique of Christianity, particularly of the Christian missions. He called upon Hindu society to open its doors and take back its members who had been alienated from it by foreign invaders. Christian as well as Islamic missionaries were taking advantage of Hindu orthodoxy which was reluctant to receive those who had been forced or lured away from the Hindu fold but who were now ready to return to the faith of their forefathers. Vivekananda viewed this orthodoxy as nothing but a blind prejudice induced by the Hindus� deep distrust of imported creeds. The distrust he regarded as well founded but the prejudice against victims of force or fraud as unjustified. His thoughts on the subject were expressed in an interview he gave to the representative of the Prabuddha Bharata, a monthly magazine started by his disciples in Madras. The interview, published in the April 1899 issue of the monthly, deserves to be reproduced at some length:

�I want to see you, Swami,� I began, �on this matter of receiving back into Hinduism those who have been perverted from it. Is it your opinion that they should be received?�

�Certainly,� said the Swami, �they can and ought to be taken.� He sat gravely for a moment, thinking, and then resumed. �Besides,� he said, �we shall otherwise decrease in numbers. When the Mohammedans first came, we are said - I think on the authority of Ferishta, oldest Mohammedan historian - to have been six hundred millions of Hindus. Now we are about two hundred millions. And then every man going out of the Hindu pale is not only a man less, but an enemy the more.

�Again, the vast majority of Hindu perverts to Islam and Christianity are perverts by the sword, or the descendants of these. It would be obviously unfair to subject these to disabilities of any kind. As to the case of born aliens, did you say? Why, born aliens have been converted in the past by crowds, and the process is still going on.

�In my own opinion, this statement not only applies to aboriginal tribes, to outlying nations, and to almost all our conquerors before the Mohammedan conquest, but also to all those castes who find a special origin in the Puranas. I hold that they have been aliens thus adopted.57

�Ceremonies of expiation are no doubt suitable in the case of willing converts returning to their Mother-Church, as it were; but on those who were alienated by conquest - as in Kashmir and Nepal - or on strangers wishing to join us, no penance should be imposed.�

�But of what caste would these people be, Swamiji?� I ventured to ask. �They must have some, or they can never be assimilated into the great body of Hindus. Where shall we look for their rightful place?�

�Returning converts,� said the Swami quietly, �will gain their own castes, of course. And new people will make theirs. You will remember,� he added, �that this has already been done in the case of Vaishnavism. Converts from different castes and aliens were all able to combine under that flag and form a caste by themselves,-and a very respectful one too. From Ramanuja down to Chaitanya of Bengal, all great Vaishnava teachers have done the same.�

�And where should these new people expect to marry?� I asked.

�Amongst themselves as they do now,� said the Swami quietly.

�Then as to names,� I enquired, �I suppose aliens and perverts who have adopted non-Hindu names should be named newly. Would you give them caste-names, or what?�

�Certainly,� said the Swami, thoughtfully, �there is a great deal in a name� and on this question he would say no more.

�But my next enquiry drew blood. �Would you leave these newcomers, Swamiji, to choose their own forms of religious belief out of many visaged Hinduism, or would chalk out a religion for them?�

�Can you ask that?� he said. �They will choose for themselves. For unless a man chooses for himself, the very spirit of Hinduism is destroyed. The essence of our Faith consists simply in this freedom of the Ishta.�58

Vivekananda paid a second visit to the West from June 1899 to December 1900. During his stay in California in February-May 1900, he received a gift of 160 acres from one of his American admirers. The society which he had founded during his first visit for the propagation of Vedanta, had now a home in America. It was named the Shanti Ashram. This is not the place to tell the story of how the precedent set by Vivekananda was followed in years to come by many other Hindu missionaries. It should suffice to say that today no country in the West is without Hindu presence in some form or the other. Seekers in the West have become increasingly aware of the major schools of Sanatana Dharma - Yoga and Vedanta, Buddhism and Jainism, Shaivism and Vaishnavism, Shaktism and Tantra.

The impact of Vivekananda in his own country was far more momentous. He had taken over from where Bankim Chandra had left. Among the writers and thinkers of modern India, Bankim Chandra had fascinated him the most. During his lecture tour in East Bengal in 1901 he is reported to have advised Bengal�s young men to �read Bankim, and Bankim, and Bankim again.� Small wonder that Bankim�s AnandamaTha inspired revolutionary organisations fighting for India�s freedom and his Vande MAtaram became the national song par excellence when the awakening brought about by Vivekananda burst forth in a political movement soon after his death in 1902.

This was the Swadeshi Movement led by Sri Aurobindo. It was renascent India�s first experiment in mass mobilization. Powerful mantras such as svadeshI and svarAjya, first invoked by Maharshi Dayananda, came to the fore and fired the people�s imagination. The struggle against Western imperialism in all its forms including Christianity became linked with the earlier struggle against Islamic imperialism. Maharana Pratap, Shivaji, Guru Govind Singh and Banda Bairagi resumed their full stature as national heroes after having suffered an eclipse in the national memory.

...

The speech which Sri Aurobindo delivered at Uttarpara in 1909, soon after his acquittal in the Alipore Conspiracy Case, ended with the following words: �I say no longer that nationalism is a creed, a religion, a faith; I say that it is Sanatan Dharma which for us is nationalism. This Hindu nation was born with the Sanatan Dharma, with it is moves, and with it grows. When the Sanatan Dharma declines, then the nation declines, and if the Sanatan Dharma were capable of perishing, with the Sanatan Dharma it would perish. The Sanatan Dharma, that is nationalism.�60

The Brahmo Samaj which had been fascinated by Christianity could not remain unaffected. Rabindranath Tagore wrote his novel, Gora, in 1910. The following dialogue between Suchitra, the heroine, and Gora, the hero, showed the new trend that had started emerging in Brahmoism:

She put aside her shyness and said with simple modesty, �I have never before thought about my country so greatly and so truly. But one question I will ask: What is the relation between country and religion? Does not religion transcend country?�

He replied, �That which transcends country, which is greater than country, can only reveal itself through one�s country. God has manifested his one eternal nature in just such a variety of forms... I can assure you that through the open sky of India you will be able to see the sun therefore there is no need to cross the ocean and sit at the window of a Christian church.�

�You mean to say that for India there is a special path leading to God? What is this speciality?� asked Suchitra.

�The speciality is this,� replied Gora, �it is recognised that the Supreme Being who is without definition is manifest within limits - the endless current of minute and protracted, subtle and gross, is of Him. He is at one and the same time with endless attributes and without attributes; of infinite forms and formless.. In other countries they have tried to confine God with some one definition. In India no doubt there have also been attempts to realise God in one or other of his special aspects, but these have never been looked upon as final, nor any of them conceived to be the only one. No Indian devotee has ever failed to acknowledge that God in His infinity transcends the particular aspect which may be true for the worshipper personally.�61

Later on in this novel Rabindranath rejects Christianity in more clear terms:

Suchitra had been listening with her head bowed, but now she lifted her eyes and asked, �Then what do you tell me to do?�

�I have nothing more to say,� answered Gora, �only this much I would add. You must understand that the Hindu religion takes in its lap, like a mother, people of different ideas and opinions, in other words, the Hindu religion looks upon man as man and does not count him as belonging to a particular party. It honours not only the wise but the foolish also and it shows respect not merely to one form of wisdom but to wisdom in all its aspects. Christians do not want to acknowledge diversity; they say that on one side is Christian religion and on the other eternal destruction, and between these two there is no middle path. And because we have studied under these Christians we have become ashamed of the variety that is there in Hinduism. We fail to see that through this diversity Hinduism is coming to realise the oneness of all. Unless we can free ourselves from this whirlpool of Christian teaching we shall not become fit for the glorious truths of Hindu religion.�62

A new spirit was abroad. The English educated intelligentsia which had turned away from Hinduism, particularly in Bengal, was acquiring respect for it at a deeper level. The missionary machine had to change gear and turn towards the tribal areas.

It is an altogether different story that the Ramakrishna Mission which Swami Vivekananda had founded for the defence and spread of Hinduism, was taken over by the disciples of Keshub Chunder Sen. It was not long before an authoritative biography of Sri Ramakrishna depicted him not as a giant Hindu saint but as a unique sAdhaka who had met and absorbed into himself both Jesus and Muhammad! The next inevitable step was to present Sri Ramakrishna as a synthesiser of Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. Finally, the Mission was hailing Sri Ramakrishna as the founder of a new religion - Ramakrishnaism - which was �far superior� to Hinduism. Sri Ramakrishna, according to the Mission mystique, was the �first saint� (or prophet, if you please) in human history who had �demonstrated practically� that Hinduism and Christianity and Islam were only different paths for reaching the same spiritual goal!

It is useless to tell the salesmen of Ramakrishnaism that this country has known thousands of saints like Sri Ramakrishna, that he would have remained unknown like most of them if Vivekananda had not made him famous, and that Vivekananda who was his dearest disciple had viewed Islam and Christianity not as religions but as doctrines of the sword. The Mission has become a world-wide network, and a wealthy institution patronized by the high and the mighty, not only in India but also abroad. And the Mission knows that Hindus can always be taken for granted. The Mission is neither the first nor the last to fatten with the help of Hindu society and then render service to the enemies of that society. The story will be repeated till Hindu society learns how to deal with turn-coats and traitors.

Link

[Arjun]

So, there are two sides here: Hindus and Anti-Hindus.

JohneeG, very good posts.

But I would take issue with the way you have phrased the two sides above - Hindus and anti-Hindus. We are talking about political choices here for the entire nation.

If we phrase the two sides as 'Hindus vs anti-Hindus' then how can we expect folks like Theo to really buy into it ? Yet we turn around and ask Theo why he is not supportive of Modi - I don't think that's fair to him.

Moditva primarily stresses on development. It also combines into it a stress on pride for local traditions, history and capabilities (termed in Gujarati as 'asmita').

Lets not get deeper into heavy religion, than saying that pride in one's own traditions and capabilities are critical - and that all religions need to display the same sense of tolerance that has been India's hallmark historically.

[Arjun]

Excellent insights from 'Vibrant Gujarat' by FirstPost's R Jagganathan: Brand Gujarat now gets a life beyond Brand Modi

This summit, the sixth of Modi’s biennial jamborees that started in 2003, may not look like a game-changer for the state, but it nevertheless marks a watershed.

The inaugural session, which had a surfeit of speeches by businesspersons, foreign business delegations, and assorted people, served to emphasise one simple reality: the world is beating a path to the state.

These are the undercurrents one felt from what was talked about yesterday. The summit ends on 13 January.

One, Brand Gujarat now vies with Brand India in the global sweepstakes. It is now being mentioned in the same breath as China and Singapore, with the Rt Hon Patricia Hewitt of the UK-India Business Council, a former British minister, saying Gujarat is growing faster than China. While some Indian states are growing even faster than Gujarat, the point is Gujarat’s track record has been stronger over longer periods of time, unlike other states, and unlike India itself.

Anand Mahindra probably went overboard in suggesting that just as we now talk of the China model, someday the Chinese will talk of the Gujarat model, but many speakers made similar points: if India has to grow like China, Gujarat is the state to watch.

If Brand Gujarat now rivals Brand India, it is largely because of external perceptions about who is running the governments: Manmohan Singh’s reformist credentials have faded over the last nine years, while Modi’s have grown stronger over the same period.

This time, Ambani was equally profuse in his praise, but there were no references to Modi leading the country. Ditto for Mukesh Ambani or many of the others.

Does this mean India Inc is not so convinced about Modi now that his national aspirations are clearer after the recent Gujarat victory, amid much media speculation about a Rahul versus Modi fight in 2014?

This writer’s reading is more nuanced: Business leaders were more open in talking about Modi’s suitability for Delhi when that was not a near-term prospect. So it didn’t matter if they laid it on a bit thick – as business leaders usually do with all politicians, including Mamata Banerjee.

This time, though, the prospect appears more real in 2014, and the last thing businessmen want is to be victimised by the current central government for endorsing Modi in the run-up to the next election.

The non-reference to Modi’s national ambitions tells its own story.

[member_20317]

Modi is the current manifestation of a particular line of thought. As is that boy who want to perserve his political virginity for the PM's post. Treat NM == Murti == symbol and concentrate on the 'Contrast in ideas'.

Also how does one compare the following two:
1) a man whose work has conspiratorially been confined to only a part of India and who even today is, quite in keeping with the conspiracy, sought to be confined;
2) a boy who has not said anything and not done anything and is not likely to do or say anything.

I am afraid this call for one-on-one comparison is a red-herring because the boy does not yet exist in any pragmatic sense.

[Arunkumar]

Cong discovers Swami Vivekananda

Jab Dushman ki umar bad jaye tho usse Dosti kar leni chahiye. Apni umar bad jathi he.

.

[Arjun]

Practice of paid news found in Gujarat polls: Katju

Maybe this is more relevant to elections thread, but knowing Katju's views regarding Modi, I wouldn't be surprised if the Dynasty is using him as another line of attack to overturn electoral verdicts....

[member_20317]

Re. JohneeG ji -

Vivekananda himself symbolised an irony of that system of education which had been deliberately designed to demolish Hinduism and promote Christianity. He was himself a product of that very education, but he turned against Christianity and in defence of Hinduism the knowledge and intellectual discipline which he had acquired as a student in a missionary college.

We need more such people. People who can destroy this pretence from within. Look how Katju woke up today to the media wallas. Till the Gujarat elections he could never find any paid news but today he does.

JohneeG bhaisahab we need not fear. The best thing about sell outs is they are willing to get resold again and again for the right price. It is in Indic interests to buy them and use them and eventually throw them. It is exactly this that NM does best. NM won simply by doing his job and abandoned these greenmailers. Since they would like to extort some money from him so they will go around doing what they do best.

[SaiK]

Why are we going so far.. I have personally seen during certain days back, whenever pakis win over India at BLuRu, a huge section of shivaji-nagar mousies distributed sweats. Stadium had their own cheering sections which went silent at every indic strike, except if it was from a mousy like kimani..

I am sure this behavior still exists with many muslims in India.. The problem is that they have this tight bond of anti-India == Pakistan == Muslim. This is the biggest problem, because muslims are the largest population in the world are in India, and that too democratic nation.

If they are not aware where they are, how they are and what they are still, we have a big problem. This is the reason, I was saying uniform civil code is a need, and I am still waiting to hear from Roman/vatican version that are actually following in this regard from Theo.

Christians and Muslims have no idea about a religion called Hinduism is there.. This was not the case some 30 years back. This is bad.. and I have a personal experience with this lately.

[Sri]

[Sushupti]

Learn from history of Nazi Germany, Congress tells Narendra Modi-loving India Inc

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 998668.cms

[Sushupti]

[Arjun]

Learn from history of Nazi Germany, Congress tells Narendra Modi-loving India Inc

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 998668.cms

Another example of the "sheer char-sau-bees" that marks the Dynasty ideology - and so admired by the likes of Anand K

[Supratik]

Supratik:
You bring very good points. So Modi is never a threat to the followers of any religion, but he will resist EJ activities. This is what most of Hindus would expect. Now how to convince the Christians of this? It is a legitimate question, no? Because the powers to be will blur the distinction, and emotional and gullible people will buy into the blur. How does an aam admi who is not a Hindu get convinced that Modi believes in religious freedom, but will not tolerate NGOs supported by foreign missionaries who are bent on conversion? It is a case of removing the thorn with as little pain as possible.

He can follow the Goa model where the BJP gave tickets to Christians and won handsomely. Similar model should be followed in Kerala as well where the majority Syrian Christians do not engage in such activities (most Keralites engaged in this conversion business belong to other denominations). The message should be we are not against Christians but this multi-million dollar foreign funded conversion business which is what EJs are doing.

SaiK, while the main target are poor people I still feel that the South had very few pan-Hindu organizations to deal with the issues and the Sangh was seen as a North-Indian group who want to impose Hindi (you will get shades of that feeling in venkat's rants). In the TN the Dravidian movement became rogue and turned anti-Hindu rather than atheist. There were no intelligent people like Ambedkar who understood EJ designs and asked his followers to choose Buddhism (there are 6 million dalit Buddhists in MH). In Kerala the Communists took over. The Church during the colonial period was more successful in the South than in the North. So I see a lack of pan-Hindu reformists groups as a major reason (except perhaps KT to a certain extent is an exception).

[Theo_Fidel]

Saik,

I picked that up from 'Redefining Family Law in India", by Archana Prasaar. I think it was in the chapter on options for a uniform civil code. Its been a couple of years since I read it. Apparently most of the present laws were written in 1860.

[ramana]

Learn from history of Nazi Germany, Congress tells Narendra Modi-loving India Inc

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 998668.cms

Despite the AIT, Indians are not Germans and Hindus are not Christians.

So don't worry psec morons. Hitler was able to rise only in Catholic Germany. Mussolini in Catholic Italy, Franco in Catholic Spain.

Oswald Moseley was a marginal figure in UK same with the Louisiana Governor who got shot during the 1930s.


Catholicism and White supremacy are necessary conditions for Nazism and other national socialisms.

[Theo_Fidel]

So does this mean Modi is going to lead a rampaging Arjun Tank attack on Central Asia, after bypass the Yellow Sea through Balochistan and plunder the vast art wealth of Afghanistan. Not that we should not but just asking....

[RamaY]

Saik,

I picked that up from 'Redefining Family Law in India", by Archana Prasaar. I think it was in the chapter on options for a uniform civil code. Its been a couple of years since I read it. Apparently most of the present laws were written in 1860.

Theoji

You are right. Majority of IPC are artifacts of British India rule. In addition to that the following is not changed after 1947.

1. British rule donated many lands and wealth to Churches and Christian missionaries in India. These grants were not taken back.

2. Prime land and special recognition is given to Christian missionary schools and education centers. This was not undone.

3. The Indian penal code remained same.

4. The police system and structured remained same

5. The justice system remained same

6. The west minister system remained same

7. The role of armed forces and their vision/mission statements remained same

8. The (sic) secular education and distorted history of India remained same.

So current constipation of India and Political and rashtra dispensation is nothing but extension of British India rule except the fact that it is done by brown proxies, thus making it BIC. If you have any doubts majority of indendependent india are British educated and British propped starting from MKG.

With the advent of Sonia Gandhi, we are back to direct control of Italian India Company. The only consolation is an (allegedly) Indian was able to do her and have progeny before dying in the hands of those very international forces.

[disha]

So does this mean Modi is going to lead a rampaging Arjun Tank attack on Central Asia, after bypass the Yellow Sea through Balochistan and plunder the vast art wealth of Afghanistan. Not that we should not but just asking....

^^^
And your point is?

[RamaY]

^ he was being sarcastic.

[SaiK]

couldn't search much in there yet
http://books.google.com/books?id=kQQ9AQ ... rch_anchor

[RamaY]

couldn't search much in there yet
http://books.google.com/books?id=kQQ9AQ ... rch_anchor

The best approach for UCC is to start with a Hindu code then ask the unacceptable aspects for Muslims and then Christians etc.,

Here unacceptable ones should be a Must have for that religious dispensation and not "nice to have".

The associated religious texts should be explicit on those aspects and it should be a foundation of that faith.

[Kakkaji]

Pro-industry is pro-people, says Narendra Modi

AHMEDABAD: Gujarat CM Narendra Modi hit back at critics of his industry bias, saying all his efforts to promote business would benefit different sections of society, including farmers and youth.

In an hour-long fiery speech at the end of the Vibrant Gujarat summit, the chief minister was seen clearly cultivating his newest constituency — the youth — by urging them to "dream big". Like in his speech at the inaugural session, Modi focused largely on the power of the youth, using the platform to reach out to a national audience, while subtly raising the pitch for his prime ministerial ambition.

"I want to export teachers, not just Marutis and Fords," said Modi, trying to take the focus away from just business to overall development.

"What will our cotton growers do if cotton is not allowed to be exported? Why shouldn't we do value addition, produce clothes for the global market in our own factories?" the chief minister asked.

"Yeh Chin ka hi theka nahin hai ki woh sare vishwa ko saamaan bechey. Humme bhi woh samarthya hai (Why should we worry about cheap Chinese goods? We should challenge the Chinese by selling in their country," he said.

[Sushupti]

Narendra Modi announces patent unit for SMEs in Gujarat

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/narendra-mod ... 3-238.html

[rajsunder]

[Sushupti]

[Sushupti]

Learn from history of Nazi Germany, Congress tells Narendra Modi-loving India Inc

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 998668.cms

Despite the AIT, Indians are not Germans and Hindus are not Christians.

So don't worry psec morons. Hitler was able to rise only in Catholic Germany. Mussolini in Catholic Italy, Franco in Catholic Spain.

Oswald Moseley was a marginal figure in UK same with the Louisiana Governor who got shot during the 1930s.


Catholicism and White supremacy are necessary conditions for Nazism and other national socialisms.

Meeting Mr Maino

"Apart from the portrait, the other prominent feature of the dimly-lit front room of Maino's house was the collection of leather-bound speeches and writings of Benito Mussolini. I looked pointedly at them. Without batting an eyelid, Maino declared his unwavering loyalty to Mussolini and Italy's 'admirable' fascist past. The words streamed forth. The current Italian government was composed of a bunch of traitors who had betrayed Mussolini and the Fatherland. All the modern Italian political parties were hopeless, except the neo-fascist front. What Italians needed was compulsory sterilisation. Indira Gandhi smiled benignly out of the silver-frame. Nadia, Sonia's petite and pretty younger sister, sitting beside her father, looked decidedly embarrassed.

That did not stop Stefano Maino's frank and forthright expression of his views on life and politics. After all, he had proudly fought against the Russian Reds alongside Hitler's Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front in World War II. The bold and direct manner of the soldier remained with him. I felt a tinge of sadness when this blunt and straightforward man died a few years ago. Perhaps, he is up there somewhere, directing his daughter to shed her self-imposed solitude and sophistry, and to launch a bold electoral blitzkrieg on the Indian people."

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?205112

[devesh]

So does this mean Modi is going to lead a rampaging Arjun Tank attack on Central Asia, after bypass the Yellow Sea through Balochistan and plunder the vast art wealth of Afghanistan. Not that we should not but just asking....

no, no, he will turn those Arjun Tanks on innocent Indians in S. TN, destroy their prosperity, impose Law of Manu Smriti, then destroy the noble and high-minded Indian secularism that is constantly evolving in places like Kerala, Kashmir, Hyderabad, Bengal, and other places. the innocent Christians and the innocent Muslims will be ruled over by a Brahminical super class accountable only to themselves, of course.

and then we will all live under the tyranny of Hindutva regime....just answering.

[SaiK]

there is a big time EJ article in chindu.. asking for de-safforinizing KA education, system. Not sure if it was ever saffornized. now they want it all painted it as white.. and our history origination is all white. check it out.

BTW, aren't we not studying about church and mosques as well... from invasions to destructions. This is pathetic behavior.. If hindus can read about churches and mosques, islam and xians can very well read about temples and architectures.

This type of counter social setup must be quelled. vote for uniform civil code... all reglion are treated equal.

--

here:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/kar ... epage=true

Instances of saffronisation found in the Karnataka State syllabus textbooks include elaborate descriptions of certain temples, reinforcing the concept of patriarchy by emphasising on gender stereotypes (the portrayal of a poor, indebted, illiterate women vs. wealthy and successful man in a village), and the lack of representation to minorities and tribal community.

[SaiK]

Biblical patriarchy is the father patriarchy of all society.. this is my understanding.. and never in hinduism, patriarchy is even thought about. There is a consistent xian (earlier I was not paying attention), but this is ridiculous they are attacking this way.

We need to do something.. I am thinking harder now. I think, minorities have crossed the laxman rekha in the year 2012.

[Arjun]

^^ Devesh, Theo was obviously being sarcastic about Tiwari's 'Hitler' comment.

Also lets remember that Theo's angle just seems to be that he does not see how Modi is different from the other 'Netas' who have promised but not delivered.

So while we clearly disagree with that line of thinking - lets also remember that there are many, many Hindus of the JNU variety whose opinions on Modi are 100x times worse than Theo' in sheer imbecility. Manish Tiwari is one obvious joker and he is not alone...There are other imbeciles who actually talk of Modi possibly having been behind 26/11 or of the "inner Gujaratis that killed 4000 Sikhs in 1984 and thousands in Mumbai in the next decade". There are folks (thankfully only an odd handful) with these kinds of abhorrent CTs even on this forum...

Lets save the opprobrium for those who really deserve it.

[Arjun]

Narendra Modi govt asks Pakistani delegation to leave Vibrant Gujarat Summit after tension escalates along LoC

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi has done what the Centre 's failed to do. Modi has politely asked the Pakistani delegation at the Vibrant Gujarat Summit to leave in view of the escalating tension along the Line of Control .

[Supratik]

he should get out of Gujarat asap and tour the country

[Arjun]

Kanchan Gupta reads the tea-leaves correctly: Vibrant Gujarat to Vibrant India

As for Sibal’s eloquent statement, it is amusing to note that it flies in the face of the claimed policy of the Government of which he is a Minister, a policy which he has defended from various public fora in the past while ridiculing justified and reasoned criticism. Warning against ‘foreigners’ who come to India to do business, Sibal said, “People from foreign countries came to India for business and then became rulers of the country. Today they are again coming to do business here and divide us. We must be careful of them.”

This is the same Minister who mocked at the Opposition’s concerns over foreign direct investment in multi-brand retail during the Winter Session of Parliament. He also happens to be a member of a party whose president came to India from foreign shores with no declared intention of participating in politics and has now become the de facto ruler of the country. Irony died a million deaths while Sibal spoke. And was resurrected to die once again: It is laughable that a senior Minister of a Government so concerned about India’s image abroad should have lampooned foreign investors as modern-day colonisers while a global investment conference, attended by potential big ticket foreign investors, is on in Gujarat. Are we then to presume Gujarat is not part of Sibal’s India? Or has the Congress done a somersault on foreign investment and forgotten to post a letter to Manmohan Singh?

And it’s not for nothing that investors are keen to get into Gujarat. This is the only State in the country where the Government has taken on the role of facilitator, creating opportunities by putting into place policies that are based on a single word ideology of governance: Development. The famed Gujarati spirit is no doubt a contributor. But every Gujarati, irrespective of political affiliation, would unhesitatingly acknowledge that Modi has provided the leadership to actualise their aspirations. Britain may have discovered that Gandhinagar and London are soul mates because of its large and politically influential Gujarati community, but Canada and Japan, this year’s country partners of Vibrant Gujarat, have no such compulsion. Pragmatists on Capitol Hill can only regret the foolhardiness of their administration.

A lot can be said about Gujarat that cannot be said about other States. Gujarat is way ahead in terms of growth, investment and infrastructure creation. With 12.5 per cent share of private investment, Gujarat is far ahead of Maharastra (8.9 per cent), a distant third. Modi has made a fetish of transparency and rectitude hence bribery is not the preferred way of doing business in this State. In an age when economic freedom matters most, Gujarat tops the list of States while Bihar hovers at the bottom. Like other Chief Ministers and our feckless Prime Minister he could have taken recourse to phoney rights, reforms and redistribution through handouts. Instead, he has chosen the hard way forward regardless of the potential political consequences, It doesn’t make him popular with the ‘Delhi Sultanate’ which is used to buying votes with other people’s money. But it has made him an immensely popular, in fact the most popular, leader among India’s young men and women. They see in him a future that has been denied to generations of Indians under Congress tutelage.

As a frequent visitor to Gujarat these past six months, I have often marvelled at this State’s rapid march to prosperity for all. That a lot can be achieved in India is palpable in many of the things that you see. And the Modi Hallmark is stamped on everything that you see and feel proud of – as an Indian, as a citizen who believes Government’s primary job is to govern with a firm and even hand. From the fabulous BRTS to the amazing Sabarmati Riverfront Project, from the factories that dot the landscape beyond cities to the harvest-rich fields, from the highways to the rural roads, from rurbanisation to urban renewal. Modi not only talks about reviving the manufacturing sector; he walks the talk. He not only believes in agricultural growth but has delivered an astounding surge in farm output. While India debates climate change and its cataclysmic impact, Modi has begun experimenting on renewable energy sources and conservation of resources, for instance, water. Instead of taking recourse to highfalutin bunkum on developing human resource, he has adopted policies that focus on skill enhancement. Innovation with innate faith in enterprise is what drives him and his Government.

Sadly, this remarkable story remains restricted to Gujarat, at least as of now. Hopefully we shall get to see a Vibrant India global investors conference being held in New Delhi.

[gakakkad]

X post

Presentations from Vibrant Gujarat..

This one deals with Manufacturing..

http://www.vibrantgujarat.com/images/pd ... rofile.pdf

urban development

http://www.vibrantgujarat.com/images/pd ... rofile.pdf

innovation & knowledge

http://www.vibrantgujarat.com/images/pd ... rofile.pdf

service

http://www.vibrantgujarat.com/images/pd ... rofile.pdf

and others

http://www.vibrantgujarat.com/focus-sectors-2013.htm


these represent Modi's vision for Gujarat...

[SaiK]

Any presentation /documents on the plan for the country from Modi's office?

[Arjun]

Some telling statistics on the importance attached by global attendees to the 'Vibrant Gujarat' summit:

1. Canada has never sent a 200-strong delegation for any international conference as they have for this one.

2. Global attendance was better than the pan-India national conferences hosted by FICCI, CII et al

3. Japan had a 100-person delegation led by the country's deputy-minister for external affairs

From here: Vibrant Gujarat 2013

[Hari Seldon]

Narendra Modi govt asks Pakistani delegation to leave Vibrant Gujarat Summit after tension escalates along LoC

Bravo sirji.

I know naysayers will say "so what? what's in it for S.TN? blah blah". Let them naysay. These worthies wouldn't be on this dhaga if not for the fact that NM does represent a coherent, potent and potentially viable idea of India. Jai ho and stadard disclaimers stand. Only.

[Arunkumar]

he should get out of Gujarat asap and tour the country

Sirji, I feel he would soon make New Dilli irrelevant, from the current hafta tax collecting status it has inherited.