Beheading of Indian Soldiers in Aug 2011 and Aman ki Asha

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2013 21:36

CRS, I was wondering who will bring in BJP into the thread. Great job at this!!!

Next time desist and think five times before you do that.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 14 Jan 2013 21:45

How can there be air strikes because of LoC ceasefire violations only? Air Chief said that Kargil like operations are possible if *these* incidents happen again. May be by "these" he meant TSPA intrusion into Indian territory akin to Kargil and further killing/mutilation of soldiers. LoC violations in terms of ceasefire violation in themselves might not bring about IAF intervention and strikes on TSPA positions across the border.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2013 21:48

Venug, I want you to take a nuanced look. ACM Browne is the Chiefs of Staff. And he is speaking in that authority. By calling him air chief like the paid DDM, lessens the impact of his statement.

If people on BR cant see the difference, ram jaane to the rest.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 14 Jan 2013 21:59

RajeshA wrote:In a way, I think the Army Chief has already demanded Salman Khurshid's resignation for uttering some BS "this will pass"! The Army Chief has also cleverly thrown a challenge at UPA-2 Govt for restraining the Army in doing their duty.

Well Done, Sir!

Really? I see both as two sides of the same coin. SK's statement appeared to be too dovish and hence we have the army chief mouthing of statements about actions that the army will take which - at the very least - are obvious and expected of the Army. Is he trying to warn the pukes with that statement? If so, then they must be laughing their brownies off. Is he trying to shore up the morale of his men? Well, nothing but a few heads on a pike would do that. Not some BS words from chief. Is he trying to show that the Gobarment is strong - yes he is. He is the mouth piece of the Gobarment and nothing else. He jumps when they ask him to and does so gladly. He is toothless, spineless and any number of statements are not going to show him in any other light. Show me a few pukie heads on pikes and you Mr Army Chief would have earned your cojones. Else, try to cover your nappies, cause they stink of bull sh!t. As they say in amchi Mumbai: G@@nd me nahee Ghu, hugne chale Juhu

Gentlemen, lets face it. We didn't do anything against the 'mischief makers' for 11/26. You expect these napunsaks to do anything for a simple case of physical damage to the body of a 'lowly' jawan. Come on, wake up and smell the sh1t. This is another 'dossier flinging' episode just like the last time and so nothing to worry. This too shall pass.

-M

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Jan 2013 22:10

Mihaylo ji,

that statement of his is not directed at the Pakis. It is directly directed at the Government, and I bet he is well aware of the outcome.

He is making a direct demand from this government, demanding Salman Khurshid get back the head of our slain jawan. That it is not going to work out is a foregone conclusion. This is a tussle between the Army and UPA-2 Govt. Pakistan has nothing to do with this.

He is saying - the government does not get to hush up and forget this issue, as they would want. This will not pass! He is telling them, if they can't do even this much, they don't have any business in binding the Army's hands. He is telling the government that somebody would have to give the country back some of the dignity, either Govt. or the Army. Who is it going to be?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2013 22:29

X-post...
Shiv, Looks like UPA is talking to LeT Hafiz Suar using Hurrirats as the interlocutors:

sunnyP wrote:And these scum bags even had their Visas fast tracked by the government of India - what the hell!!!

The separatist Hurriyat Conference refused to divulge any details about its meeting with Lashkar-e-Tayyeba chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, saying people should not make noises about their Islamabad meetings.

"Whoever we meet, we speak our mind right into his heart, why should people make noises for just nothing," said professor Abdul Gani Bhat, senior Hurriyat leader.

Prof. Bhat was part of the seven-member delegation that visited Pakistan from December 15-28, 2012, and met the LeT chief, alleged mastermind of 26/11 Mumbai terror attack, among others.

The other members of the delegation were Hurriyat Conference chairman Dr Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, Bilal Gani Lone, Moulana Abbas Ansari, Aga Syed Al-Hasan, Musadiq Adil and Mukhtar Ahmad Waza.

Lashkar-e-Tayyeba chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed

"How does it matter whom we meet? Whom we meet is not important, what you talk there is important," said Bhat, refusing to divulge what transpired during the meeting.

The Hurriyat describes its meeting with Saeed as unscheduled and says it took place without any government role in the matter.

He said Hurriyat seeks settlement of Kashmir dispute.

"We are not criminals. We are in politics, we represent sentiments. Why should people make it an issue," he insisted.

Mirwaiz was not available for comment.

During their stay in Pakistan, the Hurriyat leaders also met Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari, prime minister Raja Pervez Ashraf, foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar and other officials.

They met Opposition leaders Imran Khan and Mian Nawaz Sharief.

The Hurriyat delegation also met Pakistan Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

Since his return from Islamabad, Mirwaiz has linked resolution of Afghan problem with Kashmir and said India and Pakistan cannot have consensus on Afghanistan unless Kashmir was resolved.

Mirwaiz also calls for dismantling of Line of Control.

CM Omar Abdullah had hailed Mirwaiz for his Pakistan visit and described it as a positive development.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ds-newsxml

Also now we know why GOI says HS was in POK exhorting the SSG beheaders. He need to give a pep talk for he realised APHC was telling him that the cause is lost and LeT can go home.

Note the time period of the Hurrirat visit.
---------------

RajeshA, Do a timeline of all this.

Looks like a GOI move backfired and hence we have the spectacle of sarkari journalists (Col Shukla, Saikat Datta, Pravin Swami et al who were briefed by the govt in camera) berating those who are faulting the Paki bestiality. And mum is the word from the Cabinet minsters in charge(AKA, SK, MMS) for they didn't expect such a nasty turn on events. Only the (ex) spooks are feeding the sarkari trolls.

Most likely the Ind Army was not briefed at this move and hence paid with its soldiers being ambushed and beheaded.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Jan 2013 22:40

ramana garu,

would like to help, but I haven't really been paying attention to all the details and communiques and articles being published. I am not even aware who Col Shukla, Saikat Datta, Pravin Swami et al are. Very sketchy my knowledge is!

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 14 Jan 2013 22:41

RajeshA wrote:Mihaylo ji,

that statement of his is not directed at the Pakis. It is directly directed at the Government, and I bet he is well aware of the outcome.

He is making a direct demand from this government, demanding Salman Khurshid get back the head of our slain jawan. That it is not going to work out is a foregone conclusion. This is a tussle between the Army and UPA-2 Govt. Pakistan has nothing to do with this.

He is saying - the government does not get to hush up and forget this issue, as they would want. This will not pass! He is telling them, if they can't do even this much, they don't have any business in binding the Army's hands. He is telling the government that somebody would have to give the country back some of the dignity, either Govt. or the Army. Who is it going to be?

I don't see it that way. The proof is in the pudding..A few days from now the issue will be down and out and there won't be any pukie heads decorating our pikes, and all that bluster by the army chief would be just that. Heros come but once a season, and cowards are a dime a dozen.

On a separate note, in his press conference, the CAS quite clearly stated that other options would have to be looked at if the ceasefire violations didn't stop. However, the COAS, in his press conference, tried to contextualize what the CAS said by saying that the options talked about by the CAS were perhaps diplomatic options. Now, what business does the COAS have in trying to contextualize and explain what the CAS said. Isn't the CAS above the COAS and shouldn't he have just deferred the question. This is why I said that there is a determined effort by the powers that be to diffuse and muddy this situation to the point where everybody just shake their head and collectively sigh "jaane bhe do yaaron"

-M

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Jan 2013 22:42

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/if-he ... 130114.htm

If Hemraj's head not returned, get 10 of theirs: Swaraj

"If his (Hemraj's) head could not be brought back (from Pakistan), we should get at least 10 heads from there side," Swaraj told reporters here after visiting Hemraj's family along with party president Nitin Gadkari [ Images ] and leader Rajnath Singh.

"The question is: will we sit without any reaction and engage in a dialogue? This should not happen. At least the government should react in some way. That is why we have said that the government should take some tough measures," she said.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Jan 2013 22:42

I will do the timeline on this Rji. I will go some google search. Please post all relevant info in this thread...

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Jan 2013 22:54

Mihaylo ji,

Obviously the Army Chief wants to put ball squarely in the Govt. court, hence the contextualizing ("diplomatic efforts")!

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 14 Jan 2013 22:58

RajeshA: you are reading too much Chankian'ness into Bikram Singh's statements. Taken at face value, they were disappointing to say the least. I will X-post from Army thread

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 14 Jan 2013 23:00

X-posting from Army thread:

I am not sure what to make out of the Chief's press conference: Hawk or Dove?

Per the TOI report:

India reserves the right to retaliate at "time and place of its choice"

and

On any response to the Pakistani action, he said it has to be the decision of the government

Per LiveFist, the following message was conveyed at the Flag meeting:

It was conveyed in no uncertain terms that repetition of such acts will not be tolerated and the Indian Army reserves the right to retaliate at the place and time of our own choosing in case they recur.

I am happy that FirstPost is calling him a dove. Even if he is not, this sort of media pressure is exactly what's needed.

And yes, Bikram Singh did take the sting out of Browne's statement, which was uncalled for. Even if there is some inter-services rivalry, this was not the time or place to air it. One suspects GOI's hand in this. Its clear Browne's statement didnt have UPA's blessing

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 14 Jan 2013 23:02

RajeshA: These are Bikram Singh's early days. This is one of his first leadership tests. So he is being judged by his actions & words.

He is not showing leadership

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 14 Jan 2013 23:04

India to start visa-on-arrival for Pakistani elders at Attari

AMRITSAR: Indian authorities are all set for a historic move to issue visas on arrival to Pakistani nationals aged 65 and above, from Tuesday, immigration officials said here Monday.

This is the first time that Pakistani nationals will be allowed the facility of visa on arrival at the Attari-Wagah land border joint check post, 30 km from here.

However, the facility will only be for senior citizens 65 and above (bone tests are planned for each person to ensure they are older than 65). They will be allowed to cross the border gates on foot, and can stay in India for 45 days during one visit (yes, after 45 days, the boogeymen will take them back if they refuse to leave. so they have 45 days to plan all their criminal activities). Two visits are proposed to be allowed for each person under the new rules.

India and Pakistan had signed a visa agreement September last year under which rules to issue visas to nationals of both countries were eased a little. It was under this agreement that both sides agreed to allow visa on arrival for senior citizens at the Attari-Wagah border.

However, those who are issued the visa on arrival will be allowed to go only to those places or states which are mentioned in the visa. They will not be allowed to stay in Punjab and can only transit from the state (They will have an army of "followers" who walk and follow all these terrorists around to ensure they don't go anywhere other than the places mentioned). Such people will also not be allowed to enter Jammu and Kashmir and some other states (so that they can plan terrorist activity for their brethren in pakiland) .

Those availing the visa on arrival will have to go back the same way (on foot) and cannot change the mode of travel.

People from both countries can travel by bus, train, air or through the sea route. A restricted number of people are allowed to cross the border on foot through the land route.

On an average, nearly 100 people cross the land border at Attari-Wagah on foot. Others travel by the Delhi-Lahore bus service or the Samjhauta Express peace train between both countries.

and an awesome comment....

skg (Land of bure and bious.)
16 mins ago
Dear GoI, Hafeez Saeed is 62 years of age. Kindly reduce the age limit in view of the above.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 14 Jan 2013 23:10

I know the meeting between the two Brigadiers was held at Chakan - da – Bagh on the LOC.

But does anyone know was it held on the Indian or the Pakistani side of the border?

Form the pic on the previous page, it appears to be a Pakistani outpost.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Jan 2013 23:14

some advice to the Army:

why do they humiliate themselves by sitting and exchanging pleasantries with Pakis?
to be seen sitting next the killer and rapists is an insult.
that photo on the previous page should never have happened in the first place.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Jan 2013 23:17

Prem Kumar ji,

this has of course become another story of dossiers. The first story of dossiers has shown that it didn't work. The outcome of this story of dossiers would be the same.

So what would this government have proven. Whenever a crisis, always go for the dossiers. Whenever dossiers, it never works out!

One dossier story not working out is noteworthy. Two make it a pattern! That is UPA-2 Govt's pattern of leadership, with nothing more to show!

Whether dove or hawk, Bikram Singh has given the government a long rope, fully knowing the govt. would again get itself into a mess.

It is important for the him to show that the government's strategy would fail. If he can show it to them, next time for other things he can get more operational freedom for the Army.

This violation is of course major, but there are always instances of bigger. When the next Kargil happens, it is good if the Army has full operational freedom to do what they want, with a ready to show example that the Govt. approach doesn't work w.r.t. Pakistan.

It is far from what I have been advocating, but this is how I understand his play. Even if he does retaliate at a time and place of his choosing, he can say he gave the government and Pakistan ample time to resolve the situation peacefully and differently. So the Army is not called 'rogue' by the sikular brigade, when he does act militarily.

Now the ball is in Salman Khushid's court! And contrary to his musings, "it will not pass"!

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 14 Jan 2013 23:40

Rajesh ji: his passing the ball to Khurshid was neither helplessness nor Chankian IMO. It was just a statement of fact. There is no way the IA can get Hemraj Singh's head back - they asked the PA in the flag meeting and were given the middle-finger. So, the ball is necessarily in MEA's court. I don't have issues with him on this count.

My issue with him was in introducing the "in case this recurs" qualifier and the "clarification" of ACM Browne's statement. These were unnecessary and dove'ish. What message must this send to his jawans, who must have watched him on TV or read about his statements?

These reveal him to be someone who toes the Government's line. The country & the jawans are seething with anger. No better time to hit back.

If not now, when & if not him, who?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Jan 2013 00:01

My assessment of the Army Chief's speech? I only wish that he had "barked" with his artillery and rocket launchers instead of the long-winded speech threatening dire consequences ad nauseum,just like his political bosses.ACM Browne's hard-hitting statement carried far more menace in it.As mone poster on a thread said,"barking dogs seldom bite".

I have these words of wisdom for the Army Chief.Remember Chairman Mao,who said that " a loud fart is better than a long speech".In fact in this spat with Pak,it is Pak who have "farted" by beheading our valiant soldiers and India that under the spineless leadership of "pimps for peace",who haves succumbed to terror-time and time again and has found no answer other than dropping its dhoti,bending over and getting rogered!

There is simply NO way in which the Pakis will return the head of the Indian hero,as it will only prove Pak's perfidy and brutality.Pak will simply deny and deny and deny as they've been doing for aeons.Both '71 and Kargil have been forgotten.It is past time for another military lesson to be administered with extreme prejudice.

We will now have to plan for the next war which is INEVITABLE.There is no escaping this sad fact.The Pakis simply do not care a fig about India as they have both the US in their bed as well as the Chinese.The US needs Pak desperately to extricate themselves from Afghanistan,who keep on funding it and collaborating covertly with the ISI and the PRC who are open sponsors of Pak,a poxy in China's subtle creeping war against india.

We need to teach both the US and China too a lesson.By not buying Chinese and US products-boycotting their companies that do major business with Pak-just as the US is banning companies who trade with Iran, and barring defence entities who sell Pak major arms.The US has totally neutered India by false promises to reign in Pak and servile UPA leaders like MMS and co. have simply toed the US line in Indo-Pak diplomacy.Whether our spineless wonders too have been made "offers they couldn't refuse" is open to Q.sadly the suspicions remain that many in the UPA-2 side are actually "batting for the other side".

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Jan 2013 00:13

Prem Kumar ji,

I think he was specifically asked to comment on the remarks of NAK Browne in light of his own speech. I also did not like his "recur" comment. So yes, I agree with you on those points.

But I would not want to be too hasty to consider him UPA-2's man who wouldn't defend the nation.

But in a democracy, the Army has to take his orders from the government of the day, and in that he too is a political player trying to get the maximum leeway for his service - the Army.

As to when, obviously the current government is not yet ready. The question is whether they would give the Army more leeway on this once it turns out that Salman Khurshid cannot deliver any goods.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 15 Jan 2013 00:20

Prem Kumar wrote:X-posting from Army thread:

I am not sure what to make out of the Chief's press conference: Hawk or Dove?

Per the TOI report:

India reserves the right to retaliate at "time and place of its choice"

If EVER there was a statement by a sitting head of a professional army that reeked of cowardice, this is it. This is akin to yelling out to the galli goonda 'tujhe me dekh loonga' while running away.
This is the same army which has a stupendous record of honour, dignity and valour. Shame on Bikram Singh for bringing shame to Army and Country. What a sorry state of affairs.

-M

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 Jan 2013 00:39

Mihaylo wrote:<SNIP>If EVER there was a statement by a sitting head of a professional army that reeked of cowardice, this is it. This is akin to yelling out to the galli goonda 'tujhe me dekh loonga' while running away.
This is the same army which has a stupendous record of honour, dignity and valour. Shame on Bikram Singh for bringing shame to Army and Country. What a sorry state of affairs.

-M

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2013 00:54

Looks like this is a turning point in India.

Beheading is an insult to 125 crore Indians: Ajit Pawar

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 15 Jan 2013 01:01

ramana wrote:Looks like this is a turning point in India.

Beheading is an insult to 125 crore Indians: Ajit Pawar

How so ? If 26/11 did not end up being a turning point, how does this become one ?

-M

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Jan 2013 01:24

'At least two similar beheading incidents had taken place before – one in 2012 and another in 2011' admits COAS

http://www.firstpost.com/india/army-chi ... 87907.html

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Jan 2013 03:04

Sanku wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/report/if-he ... 130114.htm

If Hemraj's head not returned, get 10 of theirs: Swaraj

I guess she know very well that this will not help especially she is part of the cabinet when India went through Kargil crisis. Pakis will not even ask to return the heads. They will not even claim that IA has killed 10 TSPA.

As Shiv said Indian establishement probably does not have experience to deal with nuclear rouge nation actively supported by the very big powers on the earth. It is understandable but what is disgusting is that they don't even show the will power.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Jan 2013 03:06

ramana wrote:Looks like this is a turning point in India.

Beheading is an insult to 125 crore Indians: Ajit Pawar

Hope Ajit Pawar is not being rhetorical. His uncle can bring down the UPA but they never talk in political action.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Jan 2013 03:09

Muppala garu,

After reading what I read in different threads (Army news, TSPA, and this thread) GoI is doing what it does best. Hanging on to every minor and major issue and making it political, in the hope that it would undo the previous mess up it did. The BJP national leadership is trying to be stupider than INC in making even more idiotic/rhetorical statements.

In the process we are moving towards a situation where

Even a small anti-decoity/anti-terror/anti-rapist incident needs MHA approval and scripting. Even a small cross-border skirmish needs PMO approval and so on.

That means the PMO/MHA/MoD and national opposition party dont have anything to show on their own.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 15 Jan 2013 03:21

ramana wrote:Looks like this is a turning point in India.

Beheading is an insult to 125 crore Indians: Ajit Pawar

Nope - sorry to burst your little bubble. Its just the eternal campaigning our politicians do. Thats all they do, campaign and loot.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2013 03:24

Sushupti wrote:'At least two similar beheading incidents had taken place before – one in 2012 and another in 2011' admits COAS

http://www.firstpost.com/india/army-chi ... 87907.html

Does this make it right for the TSP to behead soldiers inside India? What is the point of this nugget? That Indian Army soldiers have been repeatdly beheaded?

Who is issuing those articles that point out to past incidents? Are they on sarkari lifafa?

can we collect them and see any linkages?

Eg....

putnanja wrote:‘Ceasefire violation, beheading not new’

...
Indian soldiers were preparing a communication trench, crawl trench and observation post in that village, which attracted Pakistani attention leading to the conflict. Firing continued even after the killing.

Meanwhile, in the last two days, Indian soldiers gunned down three people, but are yet to recover their bodies to ascertain whether they are soldiers or infiltrators.

On Sunday night, there was an unsuccessful attempt from Pakistan to break into Indian territory to take away the bodies.

...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Jan 2013 03:27

Owaisi they book for 'hate speech', 'beheading' is an insult. Do these idiots know what they talk? The beheading is not an insult to India. It is India's weak reaction that is an insult to us. Owaisi is not wrong because he has hates non muslims, he is wrong because he incited people to violence against India, it's people and it's culture.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2013 03:56

ramana wrote:Looks like this is a turning point in India.

Beheading is an insult to 125 crore Indians: Ajit Pawar

TOIlet op-ed...

Pak brutality to stall peace move

....
The government's attempt to keep Pakistan engaged with initiatives on trade and tourism has been hit hard with both Congress and BJP reflecting popular outrage and demanding stern steps to force Pakistan to acknowledge the savagery of its army and bring the guilty to book.

Congress is ruling party yet it is protesting the Govt! So that is how it has been otu-sourced. MMS is head of govt. if good happens hten its INC success. Otherwise its the lumpen elements in the govt!

This is the Stalinist model of ruling with high walls to keep the hoi polloi out and a coterie of stool pigeons to take the fall if things go south.

Confirmation!!!

....
Taken along with Army chief Bikram Singh's tough talk that Indian commanders have a right to retaliate against Pakistan's repeated acts of aggression, the political mood may put paid to any expectations that the peace process can be resuscitated once inflamed sentiments subside.

At least in the immediate future, the prospects of the peace process Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has doggedly pursued seem dim as Pakistan refuses to even institute an inquiry to identify those guilty of mutilating the bodies of Indian soldiers.

Pakistan's attempt to internationalize the issue by "offering" an UN investigation is an insincere response to Indian demands, providing more ammunition to skeptics who question the durability of the peace initiative in the absence of verifiable progress on Islamabad's preparedness to crack down on terrorism against India.

Senior ministers not willing to speak on record said they are concerned by Pakistan's evasive response to inquiring into the incident that has come close on the heels of Pakistani interior minister Rehman Malik's visit during which he equated Ayodhya to 26/11 and even claimed that Mumbai case accused Abu Jundal was an Indian agent.

The attempts of foreign minister Salman Khurshid to articulate a "moderate" view saying that India will not be pressurized by calls for revenge are not convincing his own party colleagues. National security advisor (NSA) Shivshankar Menon's dismissal of the UN military observer group in India and Pakistan with a laconic "does it still exist" is smart one-liner, but is hardly enough.

The tough guy role is usually that of the defence minister, but A K Antony's mild-mannered ways do not cast him in that mould. The Opposition BJP is already attacking the PM for his silence on the brutalities committed by a Pakistani Army detachment that sneaked across the Line of Control (LoC).

The Army chief's remarks that the Pakistani operation needed around eight-10 days of planning also put paid to speculation that tension escalated due to some bunker building and make it clear that aggressive intent was well thought out.

{ So Pravin Swami and other lifafas were fed wrong info about grandmothers and other red herrings.}

Congress has been very wary of the PM's bid to push the peace envelop with Pakistan and Singh's ill-fated bid to accelerate the engagement at Sharm-el-Sheikh soon after UPA won a second term has left deep scars. Some in government fear a hard headed trust-but-verify policy is falling victim to a dangerous willing suspension of disbelief.

It is significant that Congress chief Sonia Gandhi has kept her distance from the Pakistan oeuvre, skipping a lunch hosted by the PM for Pakistani president Asif Zardari when he more or less forced a visit to India, apparently to visit the shrine at Ajmer.

Mismanaging relations with Pakistan gives an obvious opening to a hawkish BJP, ever keen to daub the Congress as being "soft on terror". BJP was unable to capitalize on 26/11 in the 2009 but senses a fresh opportunity to attack UPA-II at a time when its credibility has been hurt by a faltering economy and corruption cases.....

So there is an elected ruling party and there is government to which the ruling party doesn't have affliations if chips go down.
Totally no accountability.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jan 2013 03:59

Will someone ask Pravin Swami if he will retract his grandmother tale?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Jan 2013 04:46

Talks over in 15 minutes

New Delhi, Jan. 14: A brigade-level flag meeting between the Indian and Pakistan armies was over in 15 minutes at the Chakan-da-Bagh crossing on the Line of Control on Monday, with each side talking past the other and India not even able to demand the head of its decapitated soldier.

But the Indian brigadier, M.V. Sachendra Kumar, conveyed to his counterpart F. Faisal that the tensions could escalate and that the Indian Army “reserves the right to retaliate”.
...
...
An army source said: “Our officer expressed concern over repeated ceasefire violations and lodged a strong protest and said the Pakistan army should teach its troops the ethics of professional soldiering and that they should not resort to such barbarism (as beheading and mutilating the fallen). The Pakistani delegation denied that its troops had crossed the LoC or had violated the ceasefire.”
...
...
One officer said that army headquarters had not been keen on calling a flag meeting immediately but did so at the insistence of the cabinet committee on security. The army expected to achieve little from talks at a time tensions were peaking.
...
...

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Jan 2013 04:48

His Twitter handle is @praveenswami - but he posts infrequently & states he doesnt respond or debate issues on Twitter

Basically, spit & scoot kind of guy

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Jan 2013 05:13

I have a question.

I understand it is a well-planned raid. But why didn't IA get into super-careful mode as soon as it came to know about the FAKE Jan6 raid that came in international news papers?

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 15 Jan 2013 05:58

ramana wrote:Will someone ask Pravin Swami if he will retract his grandmother tale?

The best person would be G. Parthasarathy as Sidharth Varadarajan is his nephew!

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 15 Jan 2013 06:39

RamaY wrote:I have a question.

I understand it is a well-planned raid. But why didn't IA get into super-careful mode as soon as it came to know about the FAKE Jan6 raid that came in international news papers?

May be Khan bahadur and Rai bahadurs are fighting fixed war as speculated by Ms Dalal.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 Jan 2013 08:25

Vikram Sood's article:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed ... 89716.aspx