Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jan 2013 21:20

Dont remember where but I saw a infographic yesterday in one of the links people posted. I tried to get the url from iPad but couldnt and now I dont remember where i saw this.

Anyways, the infographi is about the possible steps RG and NM can take and how many %points of acceptance they get from each of them. And the picture has 5 steps for each of them. Did anyone see it, if so can they paste it here?

It is an example of how Media will be used in next 2 years.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Jan 2013 21:22

One knows it is time for elections when a HM of a country calls the majority community as having terror camps and favourite mouthpieces of INC print articles like:
Inside RSS women’s wing: Yes to wife beaters, no to divorce

Following the incident of rape in Delhi, which left a 23-year-old physiotherapy student dead, the struggle for women’s rights and safety has gathered momentum in the country. While one would like to think that women across the country echo the same feelings and are probably equally restless about the patriarchal structure around which they have to arrange their lives, the RSS women’s wing seems to be a study in contradictions.

Participants in a camp organised by the RSS women’s wing. AFP.

One one hand they encourage women to come out of their homes to join a political organisation and organise camps to encourage sports on the other hand they keep reiterating that a woman’s primary duty is towards her family and its well-being.

An Outlook article by Neha Dixit, explores the amusing mechanisms within the women’s section of the party, called the Rashtra Sevika Samiti.

The article traces how the pracharikas or the workers of the group take pride in the fact that they are not backing or demanding women’s rights. Rather, they seem to be content with the fact that they are working towards the creation of a ‘Hindu’ nation. The women’s wing, which has close to 55,000 branches across the country also seem skeptical of the feminist movements working their way against patriarchal domination in the country.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 21 Jan 2013 22:18

Arjun wrote:......
See, what this hypothesis fundamentally says is that the bulk of Dynasty supporters have either a) no basic sense of right and wrong and foundational values that would come naturally to most other well-adjusted folks (ie the Teesta Setalvad type), or b) are somewhat weak in their mental faculties in being able to logically arrive at a political preference from the values that are important to them, whatever they be.
......

Anthropology. Hypothesis. Scientific validation. Rrrrrrright.....

May your ship, the fair M.V. Confirmation Bias, continue to keep you trippin' across the turbulent seas of political discourse, inside the forum and outside. If this is your maiden trip you may break a champagne bottle on your forehead...... or a coconut to adhere Indic customs.

PS: In your "Mikey" avatar elsewhere you accused me of stating that 26/11 was an inside job. As I did there I state, for the record, that I don't think so. But I also believe it is not beyond extreme right wing Indian groups to commit serious acts of terror. Oh wait.... that was all a conspiracy.

PPS: By the way, why isn't anyone discussing Mayawati's idea for India, hain? I am all for OBC/SC-ST power as long as there is vertical consolidation.... but I am sure she has more ideas than that! Or someone discussing NREGS Version 2.0 or something else the INC might bring into play.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Jan 2013 22:28

svenkat wrote:There were anti-sikh riots throughout India right upto Coimbatore where 13 sikhs were muredered(There was a landmark judgement in Madras high court when the HC held the state to be guilty of dereliction of its fundamental duty-to protect the life of its citizens.A very fine lawyer Ms.Geetha Ramaseshan argued in favour of the aggrieved sikhs).These riots were a 'sort of response' to the Hindu baiting,intimidation of Hindus in those dark days in Punjab.

SVenkat ji - I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. The anti-Sikh riots were a 'sort of response' to Hindu baiting in 'the dark days of Punjab' seems like sheer BS to me...the riots were instigated by the Congress and were a response to the assassination of IG. Period

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 21 Jan 2013 22:36

^^^Arjun ji that was actually the standard Kongi line those days. Unfortunately for them Kongis never had the Dharmic leadership of Hindus and they wanted to sell their own failures/shenanigans with that jingle. Hindus had their own ideas. And by 89-92 they made it known good enough. That is why I feel safe being a hindu. There is just no way anybody can take the pole position in hindu hrudaya without the sant samaj and the educated and dharmnisht hindus having gone through a big manthan about it. It just isn't controllable from the pulpit.

But I am personally more interested in the new ideas that Modi has implemented. Kongis can go to hell.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 21 Jan 2013 22:40

The Gandhis and the Kims: India, North Korea bhai-bhai.

In the end it was a memorable “chintan shivir”. It reaffirmed India’s dynastic politics and in doing so placed us on the same pedestal as that most reviled of nations, North Korea. With the elevation of Rahul Gandhi as the Congress’ crown prince, India and North Korea are now firmly lodged as twins co-joined by a common allegiance to dynastic politics. If the Kim dynasty has been in power in one of the world’s least developed nations for the last 65 years, India hasn’t been amiss in its genuflecting to the wrong Gandhi family for a similar period.

North Korea officially refers to Kim Il-sung as “The Great Leader” and he is designated in the North Korean constitution as the country’s “Eternal President”. We might as well do the same and embed a Gandhi scion as “eternal successor” in our Constitution.
What’s strange is why the Congress needed a “chintan shivir” to come up with this hardly-unexpected announcement. “Chintan”, one presumes implies debate, discussion perhaps also a round of disagreement. Judging by the euphoria with which the senior-most leaders of the party, besides of course the rank and file, greeted the anointment, it must have been one of those flash decisions.

India’s Kim Il (What an apt description) ,then proceeded to make a speech of such remarkable perspicacity, that for a minute you are forced to believe that this man has earned the right to be the nominated ruler of this country. Said the Gandhi scion, “Power is grossly centralized in our country, we only empower people at the top of a system…We don’t believe in empowering people all the way to bottom. Every single day I meet people who have tremendous understanding, deep insight and no voice... And then I meet people holding high positions with tremendous voice, but no understanding of the issues at hand.” Surely he was talking about himself, wasn’t he? Every member of his family, by birth or by marriage, has enjoyed the privileges of being part of that very power elite!

Someone, somewhere is having an all mighty laugh at India’s democratic pretensions.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2013 22:51

the words bhai-bhai makes no sense, and does not deliver any message in reality.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 21 Jan 2013 22:53

svenkat wrote:Arjunji,
you misread AnandK on his 'inner gujrati' imvvho.What AnandK meant in my view,though he can clarify hs position,was that the docile hindu can erupt when his patience is exhausted.

Well that is one possibility.

Another is that AnandK is an ..... who would go and prosecute svenkat ji for any idiocy that say I commit. Kongis are known to do that. Khoon mein hai.

Apparently AnandK bhaisahab failed to stand his ground nor could he go and seek the moderators help and is cross since.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Jan 2013 22:54

Anand K wrote:May your ship, the fair M.V. Confirmation Bias, continue to keep you trippin' across the turbulent seas of political discourse, inside the forum and outside. If this is your maiden trip you may break a champagne bottle on your forehead...... or a coconut to adhere Indic customs.

PS: In your "Mikey" avatar elsewhere you accused me of stating that 26/11 was an inside job. As I did there I state, for the record, that I don't think so. But I also believe it is not beyond extreme right wing Indian groups to commit serious acts of terror. Oh wait.... that was all a conspiracy.

Your "for the record" addendum doesn't quite appear in your original posts, Anand. But if you are backtracking from your earlier stand - that's always a good sign.

Anyways- there's something you could help me out on before you vamoose from this thread, Anand...Why don't you outline the values that are personally important to you and how you arrive at the Dynasty as your political choice starting from these values ? This exchange is probably getting irritating for others, but I'd like to have a further glimpse into the workings of your mind, if its OK.

Thanks

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jan 2013 22:55

Found the infographic, my darling iPadMe saved the pic.

Check the subtle psy-ops. Anyways, I request Gurus to anal-ise this and see how nationalistic objectives can be achieved.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jan 2013 22:56

From Above image... (for easy Copy/Paste for members)

Rahul Gandhi To Do list
1. Discourage Gandhi sycophancy in Congress (10%)
What happens to RG if this is achieved? Without the sycophancy is RG qualified and capable of leading INC?
Probability of attempting this: 20%
Probability of success: 20%

2. Improve Articulation Skills (15%)
Probability of attempting this: 100%
Probability of success: 30%

3. Succeed in at least one public role (15%)
Will this help keep the aura of RG? What public role he can take and succeed?
Probability of attempting: 50%
Probability of success: 40%

4. Interact openly and often with public (15%)
Given RG's behavior when faced criticism, can this be done openly?
Probability of attempting: 80%
Probability of success: 60% (with media help)

5. Spell out a clear vision for India (16%)
Hire the right advisers. We already have Diggi Raja, Kapil Sibal, Manish Tiwari, Burkha Dutt etc.,
Probability of attempting: 100%
Probability of success: 70%

Narendra Modi To Do list
1. Tender unconditional apology to Muslims (09%)
Probability of attempting: 0%
Probability of success: 0%

2. Travel Across India to connect with people (13%)
Probability of attempting: 100%
Probability of success: 90%

3. Win endorsement of at least 10 BJP allies (14%)
Does BJP have 10 allies with to begin with? Can we have a detailed list???
Probability of attempting: 100%
Probability of success: 70%

4. Build alliances within and outside BJP party (17%)
Again how is this different from above? Anyways, let us try
Probability of attempting: 100%
Probability of success: 50%

5. Spell out a clear vision for India (18%)
Probability of attempting: 100%
Probability of success: 90%

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Jan 2013 23:08

My math...

Marks Prob. Attempt Prob. Success Marks
RAHUL GANDHI
Discourage Gandhi sycophancy in Congress 10 10% 20% 0.2
Improve Articulation Skills 15 100% 30% 4.5
Succeed in at least one public role 15 50% 40% 3
Interact openly and often with public 15 80% 60% 7.2
Spell out a clear vision for India 16 100% 70% 11.2
Current Acceptance Level (100 - sum of above) 29 100% 100% 29
TOTAL MARKS 100 55.1

NARENDRA MODI
Tender unconditional apology to Muslims 9 0% 0% 0
Travel Across India to connect with people 13 100% 90% 11.7
Win endorsement of at least 10 BJP allies 14 100% 70% 9.8
Build alliances within and outside BJP party 17 100% 50% 8.5
Spell out a clear vision for India 18 100% 50% 9
Current Acceptance Level (100 - sum of above) 29 100% 100% 29
TOTAL MARKS 100 68

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 22 Jan 2013 00:35

i think the INC stalwarts are looking for a way out of the mess they created by annointing RG. they think that dynasty will help them overcome misgovernance so they can continue with their old ways. however, the power of the dynasty on a significant section of Indians cannot be underestimated. i have seen this blind faith in the dynasty first hand. the electorate although improved has not matured enough to see through the elaborate facade. if iitians on the forum are getting orgasmic about the dynasty why blame the mango people. otoh if dynasty fails henceforth it will actually force the INC to come out with a more positive message and rely on ability and delivery. this will improve the quality of governance in this country if the two main parties are more focused. right now the INC stalwarts appear to be like chowkidars of the thakur with no message at all relying merely on manipulation and subterfuge of the electorate.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Jan 2013 00:48

Supratik wrote: if iitians on the forum are getting orgasmic about the dynasty why blame the mango people.

Correction...Only 1 on the forum getting orgasmic, as opposed to several more IITians who are anti-Dynasty. The other names quoted by SV are all thankfully outside this Forum.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2013 05:09

HS, Guys should work on "NaMo:Hat Machine, Lies and Distortions and who is behind them" in time for 2014.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 22 Jan 2013 05:43

ravi_g wrote:......Another is that AnandK is an ..... who would go and prosecute svenkat ji for any idiocy that say I commit. Kongis are known to do that. Khoon mein hai.
Apparently AnandK bhaisahab failed to stand his ground nor could he go and seek the moderators help and is cross since.

Milord, Exhibit-A!

Arjun wrote:So here we have Gujaratis being blamed for the pogrom against Sikhs in Delhi and Muslims in Bombay !!
Hari bhai - unless you draw some of them out, its difficult to get the clincher as regards their intentions.
Question really is what power one has on these forums to evict trolls once they are confirmed...If the above is sufficient evidence for official acknowledgement of his trolling - that would help us all. If not, your suggestion (not replying) is the better course. I have reported the post in any case.

Then,

Anand K wrote:http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ati#p74322
Report this blast from the past.
But as usual, your frothing missed the forest for the trees.

It was hardly me who ran to headmaster, eh? What alternate reality did you phase into? Khoon main kuch aur hai? Another possibility is that you have problems in comprehension, especially after your frequent bouts of internet berserkergang/haalilakkam.

Anyway, fun fact of the day:- most frothing keyboard right wing (and left wing) warriors are squirrely and cowardly men in real life. The kind which seeks solace in an internet echo chamber after wave after wave of assaults on their cognitive inertia or their fragile egos are trampled on in real life. Happens more in videsh than desh where they have to live and work in a mleccha society and suffer horrible mleccha bosses and live with mleccha taunts and all....

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Jan 2013 06:18

ramana wrote:HS, Guys should work on "NaMo:Hat Machine, Lies and Distortions and who is behind them" in time for 2014.

Will happen by default if not by design. Dhaga regulars are nothing if not diligent and realistic.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Jan 2013 06:22

Anand K wrote:Anyway, fun fact of the day:- most frothing keyboard right wing (and left wing) warriors are squirrely and cowardly men in real life. The kind which seeks solace in an internet echo chamber after wave after wave of assaults on their cognitive inertia or their fragile egos are trampled on in real life. Happens more in videsh than desh where they have to live and work in a mleccha society and suffer horrible mleccha bosses and live with mleccha taunts and all....

Very true, Anand K. Which is why I'd like my online environment kept clean from frothing hate-mongerers....kind of like wanting my physical surroundings to be free from rapists and similar low-life.

Fyi...I am a big fan of 'Mleccha Desh' and American values btw.

Anand, I do know you like the Mali thread better than this one. Can we optimize everyone's pleasure please?

In case you want to continue on this thread, please address my last question to you.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Jan 2013 06:29

speaking of massa desh.... anyone recall NYC of the 80s? drugs, guns, crime overflowing outof the subways and into times square... one of the most unsafe cities in the emerged world it was then.

Till even the self-declared "liberals" held their noses and voted in Guiliani who everyone (on both sides of the political divide) knew would and could clean up the city, for the mayoralty. Result? Guiliani did his job and NYC remains clean to this day despite the mayoralty changing hands a few times since.

My hope is a similar reasoning might sway some fence sitting voters into the NM camp. You don't have to adore NM or even like him. Suffice it is to acknowledge he is the best man to navigate MV India on course and in calmer waters. Hold your noses if you have to but vote for the only man in the melee who can deliver (and has shown he can). Only.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jan 2013 06:45

Hari Seldon wrote:speaking of massa desh.... anyone recall NYC of the 80s? drugs, guns, crime overflowing outof the subways and into times square... one of the most unsafe cities in the emerged world it was then.

Yes, it was quite a shock in 1985. After coming here after experiencing Indian and European cities, I was aghast when told that I need to stand with my back to the wall at the subway stations (even when it is a very early like 6-7 PM) so that nobody would be able to get behind and push me onto the tracks or if walking on a lonely street and see somebody on the same side of the road coming at me, cross the street and go to the other side, etc. Quite scary actually.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 22 Jan 2013 07:38

>> Rudy Giuliani

Touchwood! Didn't go well when he stepped out of his home grounds and went national eh? Last we saw of him he was re-uniting Adam Sandler with his girlfriend in Anger Management. Sad...... the way he just corroded away, not entirely due to his faults.

Anyway, since the BJP seems to have put Modi in front I guess we will see the 2014 showdown we all are waiting for.
Just as the BJP wants Modi as their USP, the INC wants a Family member to keep the flock together and hopefully gather some votes. I guess the BJP also realized why they need something like Modi given that mis-governance charges needn't always mean anti-incumbency.

It will be interesting to see how well the Parivar across India close ranks and how other Parivar leaders who might not be comfortable with being overshadowed. INC men realizes the need for an RG and will gather around, local cases of rebel candidates notwithstanding... so I guess not so much trouble there for him. It's not the first time the INC dealt with a national level enemy but it's the first time they are dealing with a very visible (if not pan-Indian influential) administrator of good governance record (by several metrics) in his state, long experience in state politics and displaying decent tradecraft keeping up with modern times. This visibility among urban/semi-urban Hindus could be significant this time...... I dunno what else made RG say "the INC must change with times". The last time they said that it was when they decided to drop the single party thingie and go for coalitions. Hmmmmmm........

Parkalaam.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Jan 2013 08:23

Didn't go well when he stepped out of his home grounds and went national eh?

Apples and pineapples perhaps. Man didn't get the chance to go national, was defeated in the primaries. While that may happen to NM (in the shadow primaries of sort they have in the BJP), who knows what will happen should he go national.

Anyway, doubt anybody here expects him to head a govt in 2014. Enough to stamp a pan-India presence as a serious and credible candidate first. A loose 3rd front type interim govt suits NDA well I suppose. In fact it may well be the best case scenario for the bjp and NM as of now...

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 22 Jan 2013 11:38

It is not entirely correct to say that Guiliani cleaned up New York. What really happened was that the NYPD figured out a way to flood crime prone neighborhoods and complete suppress crime in area after area. This was contrary to Guiliani's theme of abandoning areas that could not be saved and trying to pretty up the windows in some meaningless areas. The NYPD largely ignored Guiliani because he had zero control over them. Ultimately this improvement in policing is what keeps NY clean to this day though the present budget cut situation creates an opening for crime....
--------------------------------------

This business of trying to divide folks into liberal vs conservative is a very American psychosis. So far I have tried to avoid using this term but it is very much is a MITI thought process. Trying to frame who is the 'real' Indian and who is not a 'real' Indian. The aim is to set up an entertaining fracas which get no where and comes up with no new ideas except more and ever more outrageous CT's. I mean calling Giuliani a conservative!!! What next....

By my thinking NM is a very progressive liberal and a conservative at the same time. My personal opinion is that he does what works, damn the ideology, with some personal pot shots thrown in. Not very different from Dr AMMA in that regard.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Jan 2013 13:17

Rahul vs Modi: Who has the edge in Mahabharat 2014?

This particular excerpt from Jagan is interesting...the Dynasty is going to hurl a lot of muck and hope to polarize voters. Should Modi respond back and point out the Dynasty's communalism or should he ignore it and focus on development ? Jagan suggests the latter route. The interesting piece is if the Dynasty tries the 'chaur-sau-beesi' that Congressis so love on Modi himself - he will land up benefiting. They will probably land up focusing on the RSS and BJP as the target of their hate-campaign and attempt at polarization.

There is no doubt at all that the Congress will make communalism its major plank to overcome anti-incumbency. After making a mess of the economy and facing serious corruption charges, the Congress is hardly in great shape to defend its record in governance. Its best chance is to shift the focus of the debate to communalism, where it believes it has a natural advantage. The entry of Modi will allow this to happen naturally.

Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde’s remarks on BJP-RSS terror camps were not an innocent slip of the tongue. The decision to include the BJP (and not just the Sangh) in his linkage with terror is deliberate. What he is trying to do is to force the BJP on the defensive on terror, even if it means giving Pakistan a free ride on this propaganda self-goal. It will also allow him to defer a decision on the hanging of Afzal Guru – something Shinde does not appear keen to do.

The Congress strategy on communalism will thus be two-fold: while Rahul will take the high ground and talk about meeting the aspirations of youth, development, etc, party’s political attack dogs – the likes of Digvijaya Singh, Shinde, etc – will go hammer and tongs at the BJP-RSS connection and try to force Modi and his supporters to hit back in ways where there can only be further complications.

The Congress will harp on this theme outside Gujarat, and especially in UP and Bihar, in order to polarise the Muslim vote. The central idea will be to put the BJP permanently on the defensive on communalism, and force it to make dangerous statements to polarise votes further. For the BJP, communalism is a no-win game, for the harder it tries to defend itself, the more it will get caught in the same perception that it is communal.

Modi may himself be tempted to play a subtle communal card in the hope that there is a reverse Hindu polarisation in states like UP, Bihar, Telangana and Assam to the BJP’s advantage, but the task is more complicated since there are serious regional players in the game.

The score now tilts 2-1 in favour of Congress, unless Modi is able to force a focus on different issues. Modi’s best hope must be to keep absolutely quiet on communalism and focus only on development and governance in the hope that the Congress will lose credibility by attacking the BJP too much.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 22 Jan 2013 13:23

This got me thinking. Regional parties - how many of them are actually willing to say that they will align only with the Congress. End of the day, they know that the people know the word Congress is now synonymous with corruption and loot. They ain;t no fools to hope and pray for a Congress victory. If the tide turns, how many of them are willing to wait 5 years? Instant noodles is good, tasty and satiates .

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 22 Jan 2013 13:46

Arjun wrote:Rahul vs Modi: Who has the edge in Mahabharat 2014?

This particular excerpt from Jagan is interesting...the Dynasty is going to hurl a lot of muck and hope to polarize voters. Should Modi respond back and point out the Dynasty's communalism or should he ignore it and focus on development ? Jagan suggests the latter route. The interesting piece is if the Dynasty tries the 'chaur-sau-beesi' that Congressis so love on Modi himself - he will land up benefiting. They will probably land up focusing on the RSS and BJP as the target of their hate-campaign and attempt at polarization.

There is no doubt at all that the Congress will make communalism its major plank to overcome anti-incumbency. After making a mess of the economy and facing serious corruption charges, the Congress is hardly in great shape to defend its record in governance. Its best chance is to shift the focus of the debate to communalism, where it believes it has a natural advantage. The entry of Modi will allow this to happen naturally.

Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde’s remarks on BJP-RSS terror camps were not an innocent slip of the tongue. The decision to include the BJP (and not just the Sangh) in his linkage with terror is deliberate. What he is trying to do is to force the BJP on the defensive on terror, even if it means giving Pakistan a free ride on this propaganda self-goal. It will also allow him to defer a decision on the hanging of Afzal Guru – something Shinde does not appear keen to do.

The Congress strategy on communalism will thus be two-fold: while Rahul will take the high ground and talk about meeting the aspirations of youth, development, etc, party’s political attack dogs – the likes of Digvijaya Singh, Shinde, etc – will go hammer and tongs at the BJP-RSS connection and try to force Modi and his supporters to hit back in ways where there can only be further complications.

The Congress will harp on this theme outside Gujarat, and especially in UP and Bihar, in order to polarise the Muslim vote. The central idea will be to put the BJP permanently on the defensive on communalism, and force it to make dangerous statements to polarise votes further. For the BJP, communalism is a no-win game, for the harder it tries to defend itself, the more it will get caught in the same perception that it is communal.

Modi may himself be tempted to play a subtle communal card in the hope that there is a reverse Hindu polarisation in states like UP, Bihar, Telangana and Assam to the BJP’s advantage, but the task is more complicated since there are serious regional players in the game.

The score now tilts 2-1 in favour of Congress, unless Modi is able to force a focus on different issues. Modi’s best hope must be to keep absolutely quiet on communalism and focus only on development and governance in the hope that the Congress will lose credibility by attacking the BJP too much.

All BJP needs is to show some guts. Why doesn't BJP attacks dynasty on its London connections?. Just for dirt kicking making some noise about encounter of Chandrashekhar Aazad would be a good start. Its a known fact that half an hour before being surrounded in Alfred park he was at Aanand Bhawan. Who did "Mukhabiri"?. And there are many more e.g. Subhash bose. Time to play the game one notch up after this Shinde statement.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2013 13:51

Sushupti wrote: All BJP needs is to show some guts. Why doesn't BJP attacks dynasty on its London connections?. Just for dirt kicking making some noise about encounter of Chandrashekhar Aazad would be a good start. Its a known fact that half an hour before being surrounded in Alfred park he was at Aanand Bhawan. Who did "Mukhabiri"?. And there are many more e.g. Subhash bose. Time to play the game one notch up after this Shinde statement.

You think anyone cares? Congress will love this game. Its constituents do not vote for congress based on how clean or dirty it is.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 22 Jan 2013 14:02

^^ Theek hai bhai. Tab Jhaal Dholak lekar keertan karo: "Atal ji atal Ji Advaani ji" Repeat till we fall sleep.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2013 14:06

Sushupti wrote:^^ Theek hai bhai. Tab Jhaal Dholak lekar keertan karo: "Atal ji atal Ji Advaani ji" Repeat till you fall sleep.

Why reason grates on the noise does it?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Jan 2013 14:11

INC wants to play the game on its turf - that of sekular politics. No reason why NDA should agree to play that game at all only. Let the INC play alone by itself - that way all goals it scores will be self-goals only.

NDA should instead choose a new turf - that of governance, accountability and reform. Play to your strengths, not to your opponents, after all.

Meanwhile, INC's governance failures are so large and glaring that it doesn't take much to highlight the same. Food price inflation is at least double the official inflation rate and hits the lower middle class and below hardest. Rural voters may vote for NREGA though and that will keep the INC boat afloat well past the 100 seats mark easily, I reckon.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2013 14:30

Hari Seldon wrote:INC wants to play the game on its turf.

Satya vachan Hari-ji.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 22 Jan 2013 14:35

Sushupti ji, you are underestimating the sheer viciousness of a Kongi. The fact that Kongis could not become leaders of the majority rankles them no ends. You really cannot get down to their level. The suggestion by you is understandable and valid but I have tried something else along these lines and while people do respond but these Kongis know how to deflect issues. Its either Hinduism or Britishers that are blamed and they try to project themselves as the Messiah.

Would be willing to share experiences in time.

Also this attack on governance being highlighted by Hari Seldon ji is actually something these guys find very difficult to get out of. After all these guys have been running the country for more then half a century.

One more thing besides the Governance track record is the highlighting of Tushtikaran politics. The left right jabs is what gets them down better.

JMHT

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 22 Jan 2013 14:51

One thing that I noticed is that the Congress does not allow the Indian people to recognize its real face. And the Loyal Opposition just would not do the honors of showing the people, Congress's real face.

There is a timidity among us, to speak the truth because the truth seems so extreme, that one can hardly accept it for possible.

Also the Indian nationalists, I feel, can do a much better job on the propaganda front. At the moment, it is all whines and allegations of corruption and bad governance, and the Congress retorts with, well that is a "South Asian problem, Everybody does it"! So one is hardly able to make any lasting impression on the consciousness of the people.

So IMHO three strategies would help:
1) Speak the Truth - the Extreme Truth.

2) Package the Truth in an interesting catchy way. (Ridicule, Cartoons, Photoshopped Images, Catchy Jingles/Songs/Poems)

3) Propagate the Truth through both the New Media as well as through the Vernacular Media.

In my opinion the Truth is "We are not Free from Foreign Rule". The Nehru-Gandhi Dynasty and their coterie in Congress are simply the local managers of foreign rule in India. They form an Islamo-Christianist Mafia Regime in India. They represent neither the Hindus nor even a single Hindu caste (including SC/ST). They represent only their foreign masters. The foreign masters help the Congress to hoard away safely all they loot from India.

Till now the antagonism to Congress and its policies has been shown only through soft ridicule one sees in cartoons, or through short-term hard-hitting news on the corruption. It is time to up the ante.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 22 Jan 2013 14:54

Methinks the INC would realize that the probable good governance election plank of the BJP (with their probable champion, Modi) will have to be met head-on. You can't go far with the vote-bank politics these days.... and that too with capricious constituents who have already dumped the INC for other groupings. (That is unless the Parivar decides to see how the Polarization and emotive religious thing further..... well, it worked for them in the late 80s/90s right?). Also, it needs to turn the gaze away from the corruptions stink with something more grander or imaginative, no?

Then again, the INC doesn't need to *focus singularly* on the BJP nor is it in a pan-India death match with it. The INC realistically aims to get 180-220 seats which it can by making smart alliances and focusing on states like AP, Maharashtra, Bihar, UP, the NE, Bengal, Orissa, TN, Kerala where the BJP is not a front-runner or a favored racehorse. Out there it caste politics, religious frictions, poverty, tribal issues, development etc that are the problems. On these issues, the INC has thrown the odd curveball in the past; Indira Hatao :: Garibi Hatao, India Shining :: Congress ke Haath Aam Admi Ke saath and the rather mocking TINA slogans of 1980.

The NREGA and Aam Admi cards have already been played..... whats next?

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 22 Jan 2013 14:54

Sushupti wrote: All BJP needs is to show some guts. Why doesn't BJP attacks dynasty on its London connections?. Just for dirt kicking making some noise about encounter of Chandrashekhar Aazad would be a good start. Its a known fact that half an hour before being surrounded in Alfred park he was at Aanand Bhawan. Who did "Mukhabiri"?. And there are many more e.g. Subhash bose. Time to play the game one notch up after this Shinde statement.

I did not know about the Anand Bhawan connection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrasekhar_Azad

In the last week of February 1931, Azad went to Sitapur Jail and met Ganesh Shankar Vidyarthi. He hoped that Vidyarthi would involve in the case of Bhagat Singh and others as he had previously done in the Kakori conspiracy case. Vidyarthi suggested him to go to Allahabad and meet Jawahar Lal Nehru. If he could be convinced, Nehru would be able to persuade Gandhi to talk to the Viceroy Lord Irwin and reach an agreement with the British Government in the forthcoming Gandhi-Irwin Pact. Azad met Nehru on 27 February 1931 and asked for help in stopping the execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Sukhdev. Nehru refused and told him to leave immediately.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 22 Jan 2013 14:56

RajeshA:

I wonder how many in India are ready to listen to the extreme truth.

It is too earth-shattering and strikes at the very world-view of a large number of Indians..

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Jan 2013 15:01

Theo_Fidel wrote:It is not entirely correct to say that Guiliani cleaned up New York. What really happened was that the NYPD figured out a way to flood crime prone neighborhoods and complete suppress crime in area after area. This was contrary to Guiliani's theme of abandoning areas that could not be saved and trying to pretty up the windows in some meaningless areas. The NYPD largely ignored Guiliani because he had zero control over them. Ultimately this improvement in policing is what keeps NY clean to this day though the present budget cut situation creates an opening for crime....

The impression one gets is that the NYPD woke up one fine day and decided to act. The political backing, clear cut vision, orders, rules of engagement, mitigation of paperwork and procedural hassles in arresting, detaining and prosecuting crime that came from the Mayor's office shouldn't be discounted so much.

The 'broken window' theory of crimefighting wasn't something Rudy invented but he did implement it successfully on an unprecedented scale. The results speak for themselves.

End of the day that's what we also seek from our netas in office - clarity of vision, unity of purpose, accountability in measurable ways. Sure, the Delhi sultanate has clarity of vision and unity of purpose when it comes to scamming and looting. But what about public welfare and guardianship of public wealth and trust? I think we deserve better.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2013 15:05

RajeshA wrote: Till now the antagonism to Congress and its policies has been shown only through soft ridicule one sees in cartoons, or through short-term hard-hitting news on the corruption. It is time to up the ante.

Except that this should not come from BJP. This should come from others who are ostensibly not related to BJP. Every truth BJP can put out can easily be countered with 100 times the FUD by congress, easily. That is the balance of power today. If it comes from BJP it is easy to take it down, the moment Nitin Gadakari is in for releection the charges against him would be made.

For example, Congress does most of this through NDTV, the Delhi University and other central university Social science profs who live on the govt dole, the JNU etc.

That is why the maximum ire of congress during NDA was reserved for two folks George F for overhauling the IA and removing the CBM put in place by this group of INC AND MM Joshi for going to the root of the problem.

That is why the social media and independent people cause so much khujli to INC, Doggy recently said, "RSS has hired 50 IT professionals to control the Social media"

--> they cant handle the multi-faced, hard to pin down, non standard attack, which can not be countered through the usual pelf and power politics of buying off or bumping off.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2013 15:06

VikramS wrote:RajeshA:

I wonder how many in India are ready to listen to the extreme truth.

It is too earth-shattering and strikes at the very world-view of a large number of Indians..

True that, in my personal experience, all you will get called his names, even if you read out passages directly from the Quran (say) to talk about what Quran says.

Its like to crank up a car with a frozen engine and cylinders fused to the body.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 22 Jan 2013 15:09

VikramS wrote:
Sushupti wrote: All BJP needs is to show some guts. Why doesn't BJP attacks dynasty on its London connections?. Just for dirt kicking making some noise about encounter of Chandrashekhar Aazad would be a good start. Its a known fact that half an hour before being surrounded in Alfred park he was at Aanand Bhawan. Who did "Mukhabiri"?. And there are many more e.g. Subhash bose. Time to play the game one notch up after this Shinde statement.
I did not know about the Anand Bhawan connection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrasekhar_Azad

In the last week of February 1931, Azad went to Sitapur Jail and met Ganesh Shankar Vidyarthi. He hoped that Vidyarthi would involve in the case of Bhagat Singh and others as he had previously done in the Kakori conspiracy case. Vidyarthi suggested him to go to Allahabad and meet Jawahar Lal Nehru. If he could be convinced, Nehru would be able to persuade Gandhi to talk to the Viceroy Lord Irwin and reach an agreement with the British Government in the forthcoming Gandhi-Irwin Pact. Azad met Nehru on 27 February 1931 and asked for help in stopping the execution of Bhagat Singh, Rajguru and Sukhdev. Nehru refused and told him to leave immediately.

Chandrashekhar aazad had built a network across cow belt. Two members (husband and wife doing Kashi vas) of this network were alive as late as 1996. Husband as well wife were from Zamindar family. Aazad would come and stay at the residence of the wife (she used to be girl in her late teens than), When police found it, she was forced to brutal torture damaging her uterus. She was engazed to her now husband when this incident took place. Her would be husband didn't break the engagement standing upto social pressue and fully aware of the fact that he will never become a father.

Impressed with my "Seva" (like getting them things from govt Ration shop etc, which i did totally due to humanity considerations given their old age) they slowly opened to me. As per them, after Alfred park encounter, his people were of unanimous opinion about who informed police.