Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Anand K]

Might be OT and belongs to the Epics thread.....

Dhristadyumna was the crown prince and C-in-C of the Panchala forces, the sworn rival of the Kurus. The Pandavas did not have any blood relatives fight for them. Their own inheritance, i.e. the Kuru war-machine (Bheeshma, Drona, Ashwattama, Kripacharya etc and their thrall kingdoms) was their main opponent. Shalya and the Madras and the Yadava army, blood all of them were also against them. For these veritable paupers, only the marriage relations stood with the Pandavas.... viz. Panchalas, Matsya and Kashi. Strangely, all these kingdoms had old axes to grind with Kurus too. And of course, Lord Vishnu himself in the form of Krishna.
Out of these allies the Panchalas were the strongest .... it's logical that the crown prince of Panchalas, who was an Athiratha himseld, be the C-in-C. Wonder what pound of flesh they would have demanded if they survived the war..... would Yudhishtira salami slice Kuru holdings as war reparations?

PS: Also, it might be the other funda a-la "Why was Sachin not always our captain. He is the most powerful warrior, no?"
PPS: Bhima proposed Shikhandi as the C-in-C. I wonder why. There are explanations in Randam Oozham and other works (Shikhandi was one of those strange, quiet, thin and effete psychos. A Chuppa Rustom single minded killer who Bhima recognized.... after all, he was highly under-estimated himself)

[Arjun]

Unless there is concern of early polls I don't see the hurry to declare anyone PM? Why the rush ~18 months in advance?

If early polls are declared, what is the minimum advance notice to be given in that situation ? Is it 6 months or more ? Anybody knows?

[vera_k]

My friend, all three recent polls that came out are pure urban india centric surveys.

NDA won the rural areas in 2004 and 2009. The urban areas have been the problematic ones putting UPA into power.

[ashkrishna]

My friend, all three recent polls that came out are pure urban india centric surveys.

NDA won the rural areas in 2004 and 2009. The urban areas have been the problematic ones putting UPA into power.

Any numbers to support that claim? If the NDA won rural areas in 2009, its seat tally would have been much much higher.

[vera_k]

^^

I didn't save the analysis from 2009, but here's a recent article.

UPA's urban dilemma: The city-dwellers who voted it to power in 2009 have turned against the government

[member_20317]

Might be OT and belongs to the Epics thread.....

Dhristadyumna was the crown prince and C-in-C of the Panchala forces, the sworn rival of the Kurus. The Pandavas did not have any blood relatives fight for them. Their own inheritance, i.e. the Kuru war-machine (Bheeshma, Drona, Ashwattama, Kripacharya etc and their thrall kingdoms) was their main opponent. Shalya and the Madras and the Yadava army, blood all of them were also against them. For these veritable paupers, only the marriage relations stood with the Pandavas.... viz. Panchalas, Matsya and Kashi. Strangely, all these kingdoms had old axes to grind with Kurus too. And of course, Lord Vishnu himself in the form of Krishna.
Out of these allies the Panchalas were the strongest .... it's logical that the crown prince of Panchalas, who was an Athiratha himseld, be the C-in-C. Wonder what pound of flesh they would have demanded if they survived the war..... would Yudhishtira salami slice Kuru holdings as war reparations?

PS: Also, it might be the other funda a-la "Why was Sachin not always our captain. He is the most powerful warrior, no?"
PPS: Bhima proposed Shikhandi as the C-in-C. I wonder why. There are explanations in Randam Oozham and other works (Shikhandi was one of those strange, quiet, thin and effete psychos. A Chuppa Rustom single minded killer who Bhima recognized.... after all, he was highly under-estimated himself)

Ok now you could be in the mood for a talk.

What are you suggesting? That the sworn enemy is better for the kill.

But in the present circumstances NM is also the sworn enemy. He has been heckled for so long. Part of the reason he has the kind of support he has, is because of this heckling. All those who had a long deep grudge against the Congress are rooting for him. Yes, I admit I am one of them. I would be quite ok if you are diametrically opposite in this regard.

Others in the Sangh have at various times compromised or worst still destroyed the focus of various Sangh constituents.

Basically how does NN not qualify on the Shikhandi scale?

or

Who else is a better bet on the Shikhandi scale?

[Anand K]

I just posted a Ithihasa-Purana fun fact after that Dhrishtadyumna snippet.

But to answer the question in a Mahabharata vein I would quote the quarter-demon but fully Satvik Barbarika, son of the true crown prince of the Pandava Clan:- There would have been no victory without Krishna. Otherwise in Day 1 the greatest Pandava hero Arjuna would have been blown to oblivion by the power of the last true Kuru and Swacchanda Mruthyu Bheeshmacharya alone. As it was duly demonstrated after the war when Krishna and Lord Hanuman vacated the chariot.

if you want to cast the 2014 elections in Mahabharat terms ....... what is the true core of the Right Wing Parivar? The RSS right? And does it constitute the Krishna here? And Modi the Arjuna and RNS the Dhrishtadyumna? Coming back to the MB, Krishna embodies the cosmic truths which underlined that old Game of Thrones. Back then outcome wasn't a true victory............. it was a mass culling (followed by an implosion 36 yrs later)...... and even this outcome wasn't delivered by a maverick. Things to remember when we determine casus belli and create warring camps and set rules for battle.

OT I guess.

[member_20317]

The point about determination of the casus belli is well taken. Dharmic stand cannot be vacated whether the lord has destined a phal of of the Kaliyug or the Krita. In any case one or two guys do not determine the essence of the age. So I guess an examination is always possible in all directions.

One such thing to be examined is whether RSS the true core of Hindutva politics. There are members here who are of the view that RSS is also to be opposed to the limited extent of NM candidature at least. With some caveats I also believe in that. Being RSS topgun does not imply that hindus should be ambivalent towards their self interest.


On the OT (taken to the OT thread):
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1402402

[Arjun]

A dynastic, feudalistic INC actually believes it is on higher 'moral ground' against the 'factionalism' of the BJP: BJP 'tamasha' on PM candidate will keep nation entertained: Congress !!

The IQ exhibited by Dynasty-fans would be laughable if it were not so tragic for the country:

Congress poked fun at NDA ally Shiv Sena suggesting Sushma Swaraj's name after Narendra Modi for the PM's post, saying the drama dictated by factional politics of the saffron camp would entertain the country till the 2014 elections.

AICC spokesman P C Chacko said the last had not been heard on NDA's squabbling over prime ministerial candidate and more names would be floated soon. "There are many more aspirants who would emerge in the days to come as we know the internal dynamics of that party ( BJP). We will enjoy this tamasha for one more year," he said.

[Arjun]

I think RajeshA had mentioned that the BJP has been very poor at the game of 'labeling' and I agree.

Where is the BJP counter-label to the freely used label of "saffron camp" by Dynasty-fans ? "Green Camp" is an obvious counter-label - but have we ever heard BJP use it ?

[Neela]

^^^
The label should mock the continued perpetuation of the dynasty!

[RajeshA]

Where is the BJP counter-label to the freely used label of "saffron camp" by Dynasty-fans ? "Green Camp" is an obvious counter-label - but have we ever heard BJP use it ?

The "crescent and cross camp"!

[Sushupti]

I think RajeshA had mentioned that the BJP has been very poor at the game of 'labeling' and I agree.

Where is the BJP counter-label to the freely used label of "saffron camp" by Dynasty-fans ? "Green Camp" is an obvious counter-label - but have we ever heard BJP use it ?

Remember last duel between Maximus and Commodus in the movie Gladiator.

[RamaY]

I just posted a Ithihasa-Purana fun fact after that Dhrishtadyumna snippet.

But to answer the question in a Mahabharata vein I would quote the quarter-demon but fully Satvik Barbarika, son of the true crown prince of the Pandava Clan:- There would have been no victory without Krishna. Otherwise in Day 1 the greatest Pandava hero Arjuna would have been blown to oblivion by the power of the last true Kuru and Swacchanda Mruthyu Bheeshmacharya alone. As it was duly demonstrated after the war when Krishna and Lord Hanuman vacated the chariot.

if you want to cast the 2014 elections in Mahabharat terms ....... what is the true core of the Right Wing Parivar? The RSS right? And does it constitute the Krishna here? And Modi the Arjuna and RNS the Dhrishtadyumna? Coming back to the MB, Krishna embodies the cosmic truths which underlined that old Game of Thrones. Back then outcome wasn't a true victory............. it was a mass culling (followed by an implosion 36 yrs later)...... and even this outcome wasn't delivered by a maverick. Things to remember when we determine casus belli and create warring camps and set rules for battle.

OT I guess.

Here Draupadi is Bharata Mata, Sri Krishna is Vedas/Bhagavadgita. Khandava Dahana is RJB cleaning. RSS/BJP are mere Pandavas. Like Dharma raja, RSS too had some actions that 'appear' Adharmic.

Duryodhana is Gandhi-Dienasty, Dhritarashtra is dhimmified Hindus, Sakuni is Diggi raja type sycophant feudal leaders, Bhishma would be President of India, Karna is the 2G lobby that got benefited from C-system, Dussasana is the Cross+Cresent lobby.

Your knowledge of MB is very primary, you should read Adi Parva and understand how the asuric consciousness took various forms.

[Anand K]

>>MaraY


Sweet Lord. The kind of wildlife you meet on the internet!

Wait wait.... there's another story I have heard:
When Rama and Sita and Lakshmana depart Ayodhya all citizens tried to follow them in exile. Lord Rama commands "All women and men please return to your homes!". The men and women leave but the hijadas remain. They say, "My Lord, we are neither men nor women. May we please come with you and share your hardships?". Lord Rama was amused and pleased and he said "For the devotion you have displayed, may your tribe rule Bharatavarsha for a little while in Kali Yuga".
So that explains the NDA tenure of 1999-2004! Or did this mean the brief INC tenures in the Yuga timescales?

[ramana]

Folks, Please take the epics alllusion topics to the OT thread.

Thanks,

ramana

BTW if one nows its OT for this thread and yet posts its tantamount to thread hijack.
Keep that in mind in future.

[pentaiah]

>>MaraY

Only Mav and his true followers can answer that enigma, but people in the know know.

SOme come here because Anand o Brahma
chalo if India cant be spared by Mava valahs what of BRF they mock BARF

[ramana]

Umarojaan, Did you see my post above your post?
Epics discussion is OT here.

[pentaiah]

Saar I did not bring epic saar, I thought the original poser mocks BRF to ammuse the crowd else where.
If its transgression Is seek indulgence and forgiveness
after all I was killing a mocking and flocking bird
***

Added later to make topiwallahs anand and for the record

It was Sitaram Kesari Cong I president in puppet controlled by Sonia G who called the sitiing PM Deva Ghoda Nikamma

and notice to joy of topiwallahs that Cong Presidient name carries the Lords name and his pati aswell Sita Ram Kesari ( Kesari here refers to Lion is joke must be made of asli bath "Kesari Bath" mush to push by SG)

[Anand K]

Yawn.
--------------

Back to regular programming,
This counter label thing is interesting.... If the perception of the INC as a purely minorities pandering platform dead against majority is shared by large swathes the Janata, such labeling would find resonance in the ground. The KHAM allegation found many takers in Gujarat.... the strategy of Mayabehn ("Brahmin, Bania aur Rajput. Inko jhoote maro char.") found many takers in UP.

Maybe this is the way the larger debate is to be structured..... ideologically. Haven't had this kinda ideological since the 50s with the Swatantra Party strongly arguing for certain ideals vs INC's platform vs Commies vs the Hindu Organizations candidates. Even that one didn't translate as well in the ground.... parkalaam.

[RamaY]

AnandK,

The hijdas are the secularists who dont know what to do about Viswaroopam

[johneeG]

Saar I did not bring epic saar, I thought the original poser mocks BRF to ammuse the crowd else where.

His mocking tone is pretty evident in almost all his posts on BRF. But, 'crowd else where'? Mocks BRF? Could you reveal some more in appropriate thread, saar? Sounds interesting...

[member_20317]

But I thought that was a confirmation. Shikhandi was also of mixed/doubtful/confusing sexuality. After all the query I had put up to him was about the 'Shikhandi scale'.

-----------------
On a more serious note the NM effect is such that you are either with him or against him or just plain dejected. It is hard to remain ambivalent towards him. This is one thing he should work on. The dejected lot needs to be enthused up by some engagement on matters that they are interested in.

With the characters in Kong the people usually show only anger or more anger. Much the same manner as Pakistanis. In such a situation anything these Kongis do will end up hurting them which will cause them to hurt thte people of India which will keep the circle going. I was a small kid at the time the original man baby got his 2/3rd majority. By the end of his tenure everything had gone haywire. Then came an interlude of agadambagdam. Then PVNR managed India well despite the assorted Kongis always conspiring against him. It is strange how PVNR finds respect more with the Hindutva vaadis. Then again it was agadambagdam and then again ABV managed the country. But both times the agadambagdam was stage managed by Kongis. Finally the Kongis did manage to wrest back control but they missed out on one narrow detail this time. The 2/3rd is gone for good and India today is finally looking for a leader and an organisation.

[pentaiah]

The caliber of current INC and its topiwallahs is such that they could not find a single capable leader in 1.2 billion including all patriotic muslaman to lead the country except to fall at the fet of SG RG , is in itself the reflection of the party.

May be its the PARTY of birdie num nums

here is the crowd of ananth anand




Notice so true of INC

"If you've ever been to a wilder party you are under arrest"

some where in the corwd you can locate atleast one in anand marg.....

[lakshmikanth]

Seen on twitter:
#Modi:Mere paas Mind power Hai, Admin Power Hai, Strategy hai, Support hai, tumhaare paas #Rahul kya hai? Mere paas MAA Hai

[Sushupti]

[Sushupti]

Complete statement of Udhav Thackrey on Modi Vs Sushama as BJP's PM candidate.



http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/ ... wMode=HTML

[Agnimitra]

Seen on twitter:
#Modi:Mere paas Mind power Hai, Admin Power Hai, Strategy hai, Support hai, tumhaare paas #Rahul kya hai? Mere paas MAA Hai

[member_20317]

Complete statement of Udhav Thackrey on Modi Vs Sushama as BJP's PM candidate.



http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/ ... wMode=HTML

In the concluding part of his interview to the Sena mouthpiece Samna, Thackeray (Uddhav) said, “Balasaheb had suggested Sushma Swaraj’s name as NDA’s prime ministerial candidate, but if BJP wants to suggest other names, it should start the discussion now. BJP could not decide on any name till the last moment for the presidential elections, and we ended up supporting Pranab Mukherjee.”

So at least one partner wants to start negotiations now, as in right now.

This is for the senior members of BRF who had doubts about early talks leading to attacks by Kongi media. Which will be there regardless.

One thing about these two brothers. They are upfront about their core political compulsions be it about their Maharashtra centric politics or now their coordination woes within NDA.

"ended up supporting" - abject lamentation. He knows the whole of NDA did a poor job.

[Sushupti]

^^^ As suggested by Ashok Malik in his today's article in TOI, MOdi is perceived as threat to Shivsena's vote base and hence the preference for Sushama over Modi. Shivsena will not like emergence of a backward leader in BJP with Pan India appeal, as Shivsena's vote base is BCs.

[Sushupti]

If any body has doubt about Raul being mental retard watch above video.

[Sushupti]

BJP may prefer ambiguity on Modi till around October

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/bjp-m ... 09908.html

[Arjun]

BJP may prefer ambiguity on Modi till around October

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/bjp-m ... 09908.html

Possibly there needs to be a two-step process. Announce PM-candidature only 6 months prior to elections. However, much prior to that announce Modi to some national level party post - say Elections in charge or equivalent.

[fanne]

There is method in the madness in how RG has answered those questions - Has anyone been in meetings (in person on phone), where a difficult question is posed to a not so good manager (the good ones answer them), to managers who do not know what is going on but are anyway in that position (sheer luck, pedigree, influence or by BSing). There answer usually is - Let me get back to you, that is indeed a good question. It follows a very familiar path, first you praise the question (that massages the ego of the questioner, takes away his offensive - after all it is hard to attack someone who is saying how great are you and last, it shows that the answerer is not perturbed by the question asker), then you give some canned answer, in case of Rahul (and you heard it first on BR) it will be - we have to leave the older process and follow the new process (what it is will never be spelled). He has one more trick - that will be to ask the same question to you (that will make you defensive and you may not follow the question thoroughly, it also makes his somebody genuinely seeking answers).
You can tell, he has been groomed well. How to answer the question? Same answer to all questions. It reminds me when I was 5-6 years old. I had no idea of English, but there would always be question worth 20-25 marks on make a sentence. Cow, Cycle, Book, Father, Sky, River (you name it, half I did not know what it meant). My guruji, who use to tuition me, said, it is easy, no matter what it is you write This is _____ or that is _____. I always got full marks and passed the exam. I wished I had patented the method.
rgds,
fanne

[vijayk]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/the-m ... 10545.html
The Modi debate: The baffling silence of Nitish Kumar

Silence is often golden but this one sure speaks more eloquently than words. While the ‘Narendra Modi for PM’ chorus is getting louder inside BJP and NDA, the arch enemy of Modi, JD(U) leader and Chief Minister Nitish Kumar, remains surprisingly muted. On previous occasions, Nitish would shout down any such talk and bring in the ‘secular’ question besides demanding that the BJP-led NDA announce its prime minister candidate immediately. He is also a contender for the top job in the 2014 general election.

Last week, senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha broke the code of silence in the NDA leadership over the issue of prime minister by openly pitching for Modi. He also hinted that if Nitish had problems with that then JD(U) was free to break apart from the NDA. Since then other senior BJP leaders have started getting vocal about Modi. Sinha had thrown down the gauntlet, but the JD(U) has surprised political observers by not picking it up. The reaction from party president Sharad Yadav, spokespersons Shivanand Tiwari and Neeraj Kumar has been uncharacteristically mellow.

The BJP appears to be working on strategy to elevate him as chairman or convener of the party’s Election Campaign Committee. It means Modi will remain in charge of party’s election affairs, coordinate with allies and travel across the country, including Bihar, to campaign for party candidates. This also means that he will have position superior to that of Nitish. The Bihar chief minister should be fretting and fuming at the prospect. What keeps him silent?

His morale is low particularly after the widespread protests from the angry masses in the course of his state-wide Adhikar Yatra. At some places his car was attacked and he had to return from venues without addressing rallies. The situation had turned so bad that the police had to ban black dresses or anything black during his rallies.

Besides, political rivals lying dormant so far have become more vocal against him. Huge turnouts at the Parivartan Yatra of RJD chief Lalu Prasad and Bihar Bachao Yatra of LJP chief Ram Vilas Paswan indicate the growing disenchantment with the JD(U)-led government. The most common complains of the general masses are that the officials hardly entertain their grievances, treat them shabbily while bribe has got virtually institutionalised even as while Nitish is quite often seen defending his officials, instead of the masses who voted him to power. There have been several cases of police atrocity in recent times. However, Nitish is being increasingly seen to be on the side of the erring officers.

To make the matters worse, the BJP doesn’t seem averse to breaking away from the ruling alliance. If Nitish becomes too unpopular, it is going to hit the BJP’s electoral prospects too.

The PAID MEDIA is little worried at the silence of Nitishji. Oh No! We can't egg on him any more to make it look like NDA is in trouble. Nitish is not getting erection on hearing Modi's name. What do we do now?

Remember Joshi became a big shot in the eyes of PAID media before Guajarat election. How Modi destroyed him and how poor Joshi has been sidelined. Have you heard of him after the election?

Well! one advice for Nitish. Take care of your people like Modi does isntead of going to Paki sh1tyland and hoping for Muslim votes. Leave that garbage task to low lifes like Laloo, Mulyam, Sonia, Rahul, Shinde or Dogvijay.

[peter]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/the-m ... 10545.html
The Modi debate: The baffling silence of Nitish Kumar

Silence is often golden but this one sure speaks more eloquently than words. While the ‘Narendra Modi for PM’ chorus is getting louder inside BJP and NDA, the arch enemy of Modi, JD(U) leader and Chief Minister Nitish Kumar, remains surprisingly muted. ....

This is baffling in a different way. Nitish has made it clear a million times that he does not want Modi to be the PM. Even Sharad yadav said the same a few days ago.

How does it help anyone if Nitish chimes in once more he does not want Modi as the PM?

I hope the pro Modi crowd is not seeing this as Nitish's acceptance of Modi as the PM candidate.

[Singha]

the MSM is trying to goad him to keep his holier than thou sikular promise.

lets see if he true to the gods of sikularism or has painted himself into a corner but wants out now.

let him be outed.

[suryag]

There is method in the madness in how RG has answered those questions - Has anyone been in meetings (in person on phone), where a difficult question is posed to a not so good manager (the good ones answer them), to managers who do not know what is going on but are anyway in that position (sheer luck, pedigree, influence or by BSing). There answer usually is - Let me get back to you, that is indeed a good question. It follows a very familiar path, first you praise the question (that massages the ego of the questioner, takes away his offensive - after all it is hard to attack someone who is saying how great are you and last, it shows that the answerer is not perturbed by the question asker), then you give some canned answer, in case of Rahul (and you heard it first on BR) it will be - we have to leave the older process and follow the new process (what it is will never be spelled). He has one more trick - that will be to ask the same question to you (that will make you defensive and you may not follow the question thoroughly, it also makes his somebody genuinely seeking answers).
You can tell, he has been groomed well. How to answer the question? Same answer to all questions. It reminds me when I was 5-6 years old. I had no idea of English, but there would always be question worth 20-25 marks on make a sentence. Cow, Cycle, Book, Father, Sky, River (you name it, half I did not know what it meant). My guruji, who use to tuition me, said, it is easy, no matter what it is you write This is _____ or that is _____. I always got full marks and passed the exam. I wished I had patented the method.
rgds,
fanne

Fanne ji when faced with difficult questions in an open forum I have seen the following type of responses
1. Do Paki style downhill skiing - "ohhh the material is not entirely complete the more gory details deal with your q"
2. Cannot convince? confuse - "background in this context is very important to answer your question and blah blah and create some weird analogy between the q and the imagine background"
3. openly mock the questioner - this only once or twice but the speaker has to be really good to come up with impromptu barbs
4. citing lack of time and "get back to you on this"

[vijayk]

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/the-m ... 10545.html
The Modi debate: The baffling silence of Nitish Kumar

This is baffling in a different way. Nitish has made it clear a million times that he does not want Modi to be the PM. Even Sharad yadav said the same a few days ago.

How does it help anyone if Nitish chimes in once more he does not want Modi as the PM?

I hope the pro Modi crowd is not seeing this as Nitish's acceptance of Modi as the PM candidate.

Pro Modi crowd will give two hoots about this cynical dog who plays the SICK game of SICKULARS for the sake of PAID MEDIA and CON agents in the hopes of getting BJP rattled and bagging soem communal appeasement votes from Muslims. He just doesn't get it. The Muslims either vote for him for his development work or vote for the MAFIA or Laloo for their communal propaganda. The man is trying to put one leg in each boat, Development boat and Appeasement Boat. You only sink with that approach. Either go fully communal and follow CON MAFIA and go as low as possible by aligning yourself with LeT, JuD like Dogvijay, Shinde,Sonia and Rahul or go Modi way by ignoring religion, caste and focus on development. Visiting Paki dogs to show how great sickular you are doesn't get any votes from Liberal Muslims or Communal Muslims.

But PAID MEDIA loves to keep this fire going and remind Indians that MODI is not acceptable to NDA allies and they hope middle class will stop Modi dream sooner or later and make the CLOWN as PM so that get back to LOOTING unhindered.

[Sushupti]

Expect Buddhu to ask questions like these in coming elections:

"Policing software is desh mein koun laya"

Policing software to debut in Gujarat
System creates biometric database of convicts and 'criminals' rollout in 3-6 months

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... um=twitter