Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

[Khalsa]

Ex-IAF chief Tipnis blames Nehru for defeat in 1962 China war

NEW DELHI: A former IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal (retd) A Y Tipnis has sought to blame former Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru for India's defeat in the 1962 war with China, amid a continuing debate on why air power was not used during the conflict.

Speaking at a seminar 'India and China: After five decades of 1962 war' here, Tipnis also alleged that Nehru had surrendered national security interests to realise his "ambition" to be a world leader.

"It was more or less universally accepted perhaps grudgingly not openly in some Indian quarters that to serve the dubious purpose of political survival that Pandit Nehru with his grandiose vision of a conflict free non-alligned world surrendered vital national security interest to the ambition of being a world leader," he said.

The remarks made yesterday came against the backdrop of the recent comments by the current Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne that the outcome of the 1962 war with China would have been different had the IAF been used in an offensive role.

Asked to expand on his remarks, Tipnis today said Nehru was the "major contributor" for India's debacle.

72-year-old Tipnis, who had a three-year tenure as IAF Chief from December 31, 1998 was commissioned as a fighter pilot in 1960, two years before the hostilities broke out between India and China.

Tipnis said he had also seen an Army Chief in those days being "ticked off" like a school-boy by Prime Minister Nehru for his alleged petulance.

The issue of IAF not being used in the 1962 hostilities is still debated by military historians and experts and there is no clarity as to why the air force was not used.

Browne had said the IAF was not allowed to be used in an offensive role and confined only to provide transport support to the Army. "These are open and glaring lessons we should have imbibed," he added.

For the first time in last 50 years, India celebrated the anniversary of the 1962 war with China on October 20 where Defence Minister A K Antony along with the three Services chiefs laid wreaths on the Amar Jawan Jyoti to pay tributes to the martyrs and participants of the war.

Anybody here surprised ???

Nope.
Its an open secret that we f**ked up.

If I am wrong then how come this is the only war ... where the review and lessons learnt document is too sensitive to be declassified.

[RamaY]

Sri Tipnis is marked.

[eklavya]

IAF's first Swiss Pilatus trainer aircraft arrives in India

NEW DELHI: The first of the 75 Swiss Pilatus trainer aircraft procured by the IAF under a Rs 2,800 crore deal to train its rookie pilots today landed at Jamnagar in Gujarat.

The fleet of 75 aircraft will help in replacing the fleet of HPT-32 basic trainers which were grounded after a fatal crash in 2009, senior IAF officials said here today. The Pilatus plane flew in from the firm's headquarters in Stans in Switzerland for its maiden flight.
...
...
The IAF is also planning to seek more Pilatus trainer aircraft from the Swiss firm which could see another 100 aircraft being procured from there.

According to the contract, Pilatus will also do a transfer of technology to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for maintenance of the fleet for the next 30 years.
...

Great news. And by happy coincidence, guess which beauties grace the IAF calendar when you turned the page to February this morning: why, but two IAF PC-7 MK IIs

[Indranil]

Great news. And by happy coincidence, guess which beauties grace the IAF calendar when you turned the page to February this morning: why, but two IAF PC-7 MK IIs

which calendar?

[Vivek K]

The lack of a civil debate on national issues is of concern! Vipul has a right to his opinion but should he express it in this manner to totally distract the debate?

[Austin]

AW&ST Neweest Issue has "Aerospace India Special" Enjoy

http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416252612&e=true

[Sagar G]

Nope.
Its an open secret that we Nehru f**ked up.

Corrected.

If I am wrong then how come this is the only war ... where the review and lessons learnt document is too sensitive to be declassified.

Why do you want to destroy the pride and honour of the dynasty

[Singha]

- born with a silver spoon in rich family to a father of dubious origin and morality - a proud "beef eating brahman of the united provinces"
- indifferent in education but gets to go study in england on daddys funds
- marries a good woman due to family status, but is unfaithful and neglects her
- cavorts and beds the wife of the viceroy openly
- failure in political life, other than in hounding out good people like patel
- not one of his ideas economic or political is accepted or successful worldwide
- screws up our whole china-pak strategy for decades
- not merely content with messing up during his reign, installs his daughter as a high ranking figure to fight for succession
- breathes his last probably of syphillis which is hushed up

does the above summarize the resume of the great leader?

[eklavya]

There are differing professional viewpoints within the IAF about whether it could have made much difference to the outcome of the 1962 war. For example, see this article from 2007 by an IAF officer:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... ewoor.html

Back in 1962, hill flying was very restricted, because neither the Govt nor the IAF expected to fight the Chinese in the mountains, and with Pakistan, it was to be in Punjab / Rajasthan. No one had ever tried out bombing, rocket or front gun attacks in the hills / mountains. No SOPs existed about heights to fly, dive angles, weapon release heights, escape routes, weather impact in afternoon operations, range / endurance versus weapon loads, search / rescue, helicopter support etc.

We just did not have the wherewithall to wage an air war against the Chinese in Oct 62. Surely now nearly 45 years later we can accept this truth? Nothing to be embarrassed about, that is how we were. The Govt of India, with Krishna Menon as Defence Minister, was least interested in defence preparedness. Ordnance factories were manufacturing coffee percolators and toasters, because they had “extra spare capacity”. But as they all shouted in Parliament, “ ------every inch of our land will be defended to the last man.” With what?

[shiv]

IAF's first Swiss Pilatus trainer aircraft arrives in India

In view of the urgent need of the IAF to train its pilots, the Swiss firm had assured the force that it will start the delivery of the aircraft by the last quarter of 2012.

It's great that the Swiss kept up their promise of delivery by the last quarter of 2012

[member_20292]

- born with a silver spoon in rich family to a father of dubious origin and morality - a proud "beef eating brahman of the united provinces"
- indifferent in education but gets to go study in england on daddys funds
- marries a good woman due to family status, but is unfaithful and neglects her
- cavorts and beds the wife of the viceroy openly
- failure in political life, other than in hounding out good people like patel
- not one of his ideas economic or political is accepted or successful worldwide
- screws up our whole china-pak strategy for decades
- not merely content with messing up during his reign, installs his daughter as a high ranking figure to fight for succession
- breathes his last probably of syphillis which is hushed up

does the above summarize the resume of the great leader?

1. Goes to jail frequently for his politics.
2. Treats the opposition with respect, even as the prime minister. His son in law speaks out against his policies. Not too much dictatorial tendencies there.


All in all I am grateful to Mr Nehru for a few things;

1. Putting in India, a routine and a practise of democracy. I believe that his contribution of just getting up in the morning and does reasonable duties of a PM, running the offices of the PM...working in the govt. ; working to give a fledgeling democracy, its feet is good enough.

None of the Suharto's and Sukarno's , (forget the Maos) did that.
{At the same time, they did better in basic education, healthcare etc. }


2. Truth of the matter is, Singha ji, that it is not a good idea to make a philosopher a king.
But if one is changing the system totally, inside out, adopting from a foreign country, practises that were hitherto unknown in this part of the world, { and as far as I can see, are still unknown } , then, Pt nehru, as a philosopher-king, did a good job.

3. I'm as die hard a NaMo, BJP right wing person as it gets. But I give credit where its due. And fact of the matter is, that the Nehru Gandhi family were decent people, the elite of India, who were educated in the British way of running a democracy. They did an okay job of the "Transfer of technology" from the British to India of running a skeletal albeit sclerotic democracy.

4. It is all very well for us to be well educated (and in fact in my case, from a Nehru/ Malviya built institution) and then criticize our forefathers who made mistakes.
But, it requires us, the well educated people of India, to wade deep into the cesspool of Indian politics and give to it, systems that we have learnt outside it.

5. Nehru, being elite Indian, did things from his perspective. A Mulayam being the first prime minister or a Devi Laal, would have been FAAR more representitive of the average Indian than Nehru was. And we would be reaping the positives and negatives of that situation, today.

[Singha]

wipro infra engg has a deal with a spanish co under EADS to make actuator type gear in new devanhalli plant.
hopefully they can expand into other areas

http://www.wiproinfra.com/products/manufacturing.php

[Singha]

OT but nehru did not have any special insight or superior plan or preference for democracy over any of the other top leaders at the time. all were in favour. the congress then (with nehru's opponents marginalized) represented the best bet the british had of putting a weak system in power and getting out while leaving the ticking time bomb called TSP under our feet.
the british were pretty ruthless on anyone who represented an alternative or content to the INC , a case of "managing" who they would need to talk with.

gandhiji changed their well laid plans a little bit with his unusual tactics of mass mobilization else the INC would have been a elitemens club with Nehru in 101% charge probably

[Vipul]

- cavorts and beds the wife of the viceroy openly.

I have always been surprised how there has never been even a squick much less a debate on what a characterless person Nehru was.
Also there has never been an opinion on how this could have been a Honeytrap by the British to influence and accept whatever plans or agenda the Viceroy or Queen had for him to implement on their behalf.
Seems the manipulation of media/public opinion in India was started by the (Con)gressi leaders right from the start.

[Singha]

possible. I am sure such files were burned by HMG and will not be made public under the periodic declassification of documents rules which is just to satisfy their domestic cries for openness.

[Khalsa]

Nope.
Its an open secret that we Nehru f**ked up.

Corrected.

If I am wrong then how come this is the only war ... where the review and lessons learnt document is too sensitive to be declassified.

Why do you want to destroy the pride and honour of the dynasty

[Suresh S]

born with a silver spoon in rich family to a father of dubious origin and morality - a proud "beef eating brahman of the united provinces"
- indifferent in education but gets to go study in england on daddys funds
- marries a good woman due to family status, but is unfaithful and neglects her
- cavorts and beds the wife of the viceroy openly
- failure in political life, other than in hounding out good people like patel
- not one of his ideas economic or political is accepted or successful worldwide
- screws up our whole china-pak strategy for decades
- not merely content with messing up during his reign, installs his daughter as a high ranking figure to fight for succession
- breathes his last probably of syphillis which is hushed up

does the above summarize the resume of the great leader?

singha what did Bharat Ma do wrong to deserve such people as leaders. The rumor about syphilis is more than a rumor. A friend of mine now a cardio thoracic surgeon in US worked for a short time at AIIMS and he claimed to have seen the great leaders,s aorta in a jar with a diagnosis of syphilitic aortic aneurysm which is what probably killed the great leader and not a stroke as advertised.

[member_20067]

IAF Receives First Lot Of Pilatus PC-7 Trainers

Courtesy Livefist

IAF Statement: The Indian Air Force has received the first lot of the new basic trainer aircraft 'PC-7 Mk-II' produced by the Pilatus aircraft company of Switzerland, which arrived today at the Air Force Academy, Dundigal near Hyderabad. The first lot of aircraft were flown in by the Swiss pilots and received at Air Force Academy by Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Training Command, Air Marshal Rajinder Singh PVSM AVSM VM and Commandant AFA, Air Marshal RG Burli VM. The aircraft 'PC-7 Mk-II' is a modern trainer aircraft, equipped with the latest navigation system and training aids, and is being used by many Air Forces around the world. The IAF is to get 75 such aircrafts in the coming months. With the induction of the 'PC-7 Mk-II' aircraft, the IAF will be able to meet the long standing need of having a basic trainer aircraft post grounding of HPT-32 in July 2009.

[Kartik]

The PC-7s have Swiss markings instead of IAF ones although space is reserved for IAF roundels on the wings. And this color scheme seems quite odd, not quite IAF like.

[eklavya]

It's great that the Swiss kept up their promise of delivery by the last quarter of 2012

There seems to be some delay between construction and delivery. As per this photo, #6 was flying on Jan 18:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88541753@N ... /lightbox/

Here is a photo of #1 from 11 October 2012:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/88541753@N ... /lightbox/

Here is a photo of #1 and #2 on 28 October 2012:

http://photogallery.outlookindia.com/de ... 7#TopImage

Looks like at least 3 month delay between construction and delivery. First batch to be trained on the PC-7 Mk-II will start their course in July 2013:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130203/n ... pc-7-mk-ii

[Brando]

Looks like the Indian government has bought the IAF Training Command a Swiss Rolex when all they needed was a $5 Casio .

Look at those beauties......External drop tanks ? are those standard on all "trainers" in the military ?

[eklavya]

Looks like the Indian government has bought the IAF Training Command a Swiss Rolex when all they needed was a $5 Casio .

Look at those beauties......External drop tanks ? are those standard on all "trainers" in the military ?

Of the aircraft that entered the tender, and met the technical criteria, it was the cheapest option. Apparently it costs less than what it would cost HAL to deliver the HTT-40. So, maybe a Swiss Swatch, and not a Rolex

The drop tanks must be because of the long range ferry from CH to IN.

[eklavya]

rumor about syphilis is more than a rumor. A friend of mine now a cardio thoracic surgeon in US worked for a short time at AIIMS and he claimed to have seen the great leaders,s aorta in a jar with a diagnosis of syphilitic aortic aneurysm which is what probably killed the great leader and not a stroke as advertised.

This is just the usual nonsense and lies cooked up by the usual losers. What is your friend's name? Does any other doctor at AIIMS corroborate his claim?

[Sagar G]

Looks like the Indian government has bought the IAF Training Command a Swiss Rolex when all they needed was a $5 Casio .

Look at those beauties......External drop tanks ? are those standard on all "trainers" in the military ?

Yeah absolutely right HTT-35 was a piece of shit since it was being made by HAL and so will be HTT-40 since same dirty SDREs are trying to make a basic trainer for IAF. Such criminals HAL guys are aak thoo, IAF should carry out carpet bombing on HAL walas trying to come up with a basic trainer I mean such sheer wastage of money when IAF afsars can proudly pose in front of foreign made aircraft's.

Apparently it costs less than what it would cost HAL to deliver the HTT-40.

Tyagi said in a recent interview that the cost is comparable but he must be lying since HAL is run by dirty poor SDRE's onlee.

[Sagar G]

rumor about syphilis is more than a rumor. A friend of mine now a cardio thoracic surgeon in US worked for a short time at AIIMS and he claimed to have seen the great leaders,s aorta in a jar with a diagnosis of syphilitic aortic aneurysm which is what probably killed the great leader and not a stroke as advertised.

This is just the usual nonsense and lies cooked up by the usual losers. What is your friend's name? Does any other doctor at AIIMS corroborate his claim?

Absolutely true anything which shows the dynasty in poor light is being peddled by "usual losers" only dynasty can do nothing wrong they have only Indian interests in there hearts. How dare "usual loser" Tipnis even suggest that Nehru was responsible for 1962 debacle, he must be tried for sedition.

[Austin]

On IAF Program from Chief via FoRCE

What additional numbers, and by when do you hope to have, of C-130J and C-17?

IAF has inducted six C-130 J-30 aircraft and a case for procurement of an additional six aircraft is being progressed. A Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) was signed with the United States government in June 2011 for procuring 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft and associated equipment. The first C-17 aircraft is likely to arrive in June 2013.

What is the update on various types of helicopters: Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), heavy lift, attack, reconnaissance and surveillance, and VIP? How many Mi-17V5 will the IAF have?

Our helicopter fleet is slated for a substantial boost in its operational potential with advanced technology inductions planned in all categories.

Heavy Lift Helicopter: A case for procurement of 15 Heavy Lift Helicopters is being processed. Contract negotiations are presently in progress with Boeing, USA for the CH-47(I) Chinook helicopter. The contract is expected to be signed in the financial year 2013-14.
Attack Helicopter: A case for procurement of 22 Attack Helicopters is being processed. Contract negotiations are presently in progress with Boeing, USA for the AH-64D Apache helicopter. The contract is expected to be signed in the financial year 2013-14.
Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter: The Indian Army is the lead service for processing the case for procurement of 197 RSH. Of these, 64 will be for the IAF.
VVIP/VIP Helicopters: A contract for supply of 12 AW-101 helicopters was signed in February 2010 with AgustaWestland, UK. The delivery of the helicopters is in progress and three helicopters have been delivered by the vendor. Delivery of all helicopters is likely to be completed by July 2013.
Light Utility Helicopter: HAL is developing a LUH for the IAF and the Indian Army. The scheme is presently at the Design & Development (D&D) stage.
Light Combat Helicopter: A LCH is being indigenously designed and developed by HAL for IAF, and a total of 65 helicopters are planned to be procured. The R&D for this project is being funded by the IAF. The basic configuration and design freeze has been completed, and two prototypes are presently undergoing D&D trials. On successful completion of D&D phase (likely to be completed by 2013-14), a contract between IAF and HAL will be signed for production.
Mi-17 V5: The IAF had signed a contract for 80 Mi-17 V5 helicopters, for which deliveries are in progress. The second contract for 59 Mi-17 V5 helicopters was signed in December 2012, and deliveries would commence in April 2013.

What is the update on various upgrade programmes including Jaguar, Su-30MKI, and Mirage-2000? What all upgrades are sought in each?

In an endeavour to enhance the operational relevance of our combat worthy assets, we have planned an extensive upgrade programme.

Jaguar: An avionics upgrade of the DARIN-I Jaguar aircraft to DARIN-III standards is currently underway. The design & development (D&D) phase is being implemented by HAL and the project is expected to be completed by 2017-18. The upgrade will have Hands on Throttle and Stick (HOTAS), autopilot mod, VOR/ILS/TACAN as landing aids, glass cockpit besides the state-of-the-art avionics. Some 95 autopilot sets are also planned to be procured from M/s Thales and the project is scheduled for completion by 2017-18. In addition, IAF has initiated a proposal for re-engining of the entire Jaguar fleet with F-125 IN engine of M/s Honeywell. The entire project is likely to be completed by 2023.
Mirage-2000: The programme comprises upgrade of Mirage 2000 aircraft of the IAF over the next 10 years. The first two aircraft will be upgraded by Thales Aeroportes Systems and Dassault Aviation to the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) Standard. The upgradation of the remaining aircraft to IOC standard along with the series upgrade of all aircraft to Final Operational Clearance will be done by HAL.

[eklavya]

As Nehru-ji was PM from 1947 to 1964, he is quite obviously the person most responsible for the 1962 defeat, followed by his Defence Minister, Krishna Menon. That much is broadly accepted and hardly a new or a controversial view.

The lies and nonsense I mentioned was not about the 1962 debacle, but the uncorroborated claims by unnamed sources about Nehru-ji's cause of death.

[Brando]

Of the aircraft that entered the tender, and met the technical criteria, it was the cheapest option. Apparently it costs less than what it would cost HAL to deliver the HTT-40. So, maybe a Swiss Swatch, and not a Rolex

The drop tanks must be because of the long range ferry from CH to IN.

With nearly 40 years of experience building aircraft in India, it is a pity, that a reliable high powered turboprop could not have been built in India to meet IAF's basic trainer needs. If the South Koreans, Brazilians, Pols, Turks etc can do it, why not Indians ? How come the MoD didn't consider private companies in India like Mahindra Aerospace or somebody else trying to build these at home ??

HAL is too fat, too arrogant and has the GoI bent over a barrel subjecting all of India to its inadequacies and failures. The GoI should allow full FDI in aerospace and ask HAL to get its act together or perish. The GoI can make a LOT of money but chopping up HAL's facilities and selling them to big name foreign or private Aerospace companies trying to get a manufacturing foothold in India.

[Sagar G]

A spicy menage a trois: The shocking love triangle between Lord Mountbatten, his wife and the founder of modern India

I can understand "usual losers" of SDRE types "defaming" Nehru "ji" but why are Britishers also indulging in it. Conspiracy by Hindoo Terrorists onlee to defame dynasty

[Sagar G]

With nearly 40 years of experience building aircraft in India, it is a pity, that a reliable high powered turboprop could not have been built in India to meet IAF's basic trainer needs. If the South Koreans, Brazilians, Pols, Turks etc can do it, why not Indians ? How come the MoD didn't consider private companies in India like Mahindra Aerospace or somebody else trying to build these at home ??

HAL is too fat, too arrogant and has the GoI bent over a barrel subjecting all of India to its inadequacies and failures. The GoI should allow full FDI in aerospace and ask HAL to get its act together or perish. The GoI can make a LOT of money but chopping up HAL's facilities and selling them to big name foreign or private Aerospace companies trying to get a manufacturing foothold in India.

I have a better idea all the HAL facilities should be carpet bombed by IAF and any surviving candidate should be decapitated by our SF guys, doing so would be a great service to the nation. I mean it's always a better idea to run in the middle of a war begging in front of foreigners to allow us to modify there aircrafts so as to carry out precision strikes than trying to make an aircraft all by ourselves which will result in our independence from foreign arm twisting. I don't know which moron came up with this idea of trying to make an aerospace sector in India when we can purchase foreign aircrafts and proudly pose in front of them. Look at the pride in the faces of IAF afsars, I cannot imagine the same look had it been an SDRE made aircraft. They wouldn't even have posed for a photo op. infront of a dirty poor SDRE plane. LCA must be scrapped right now it's a shame for the country that we are trying to make a 4.5th gen plane when the same is available in foreign markets. DIE HAL DIE...........

[eklavya]

A spicy menage a trois: The shocking love triangle between Lord Mountbatten, his wife and the founder of modern India

I can understand "usual losers" of SDRE types "defaming" Nehru "ji" but why are Britishers also indulging in it. Conspiracy by Hindoo Terrorists onlee to defame dynasty

This is one of the tamest articles about the Mountbattens and Nehru-ji that I have read. For a true character assasination of Mountbatten, read Andrew Roberts' essay "Lord Mountbatten and the perils of adrenaline" in his book Eminent Churchillians. Interestingly Andrew Roberts suggests that the menage a trois worked to India's favour.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/s ... ode=413198
While writing his official biography of Mountbatten, Philip Ziegler kept a note pinned above his desk. It said: "Remember that, after all, he was a great man." But was he? Author Andrew Roberts was certain that he was not, and in an essay that is a masterpiece of character assassination, "Lord Mountbatten and the perils of adrenalin", cast serious doubt on claims for his greatness, seeing him as careless with his ships, responsible for the disastrous Dieppe raid, taking undeserved credit for the Burma campaign, and then botching the handover to Indian independence by his partiality to Jawaharlal Nehru, leader of the Congress Party and Mountbatten's wife's lover.

[eklavya]

Look at the pride in the faces of IAF afsars, I cannot imagine the same look had it been an SDRE made aircraft. They wouldn't even have posed for a photo op. infront of a dirty poor SDRE plane.

You have an appalling habit of blaming the IAF for the failures of HAL, by accusing IAF officers of lacking a patriotic outlook. Please apologise for your disgusting slander. Here, 15 smiling IAF officers in front of their HAL made Surya Kiran:

http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?new ... b15c25233d

[Sagar G]

This is one of the tamest articles about the Mountbattens and Nehru-ji that I have read.

Sources tell me it was written by a trainee Hindoo Terrorist hence the tameness.

While writing his official biography of Mountbatten, Philip Ziegler kept a note pinned above his desk. It said: "Remember that, after all, he was a great man." But was he? Author Andrew Roberts was certain that he was not, and in an essay that is a masterpiece of character assassination, "Lord Mountbatten and the perils of adrenalin", cast serious doubt on claims for his greatness, seeing him as careless with his ships, responsible for the disastrous Dieppe raid, taking undeserved credit for the Burma campaign, and then botching the handover to Indian independence by his partiality to Jawaharlal Nehru, leader of the Congress Party and Mountbatten's wife's lover.

Clear cut sign of Hindoo Terrorist masquerading as TFTA to defame dynasty.

[eklavya]

^^^^
Looks like your PC has been infected by an incoherent nonsense generating virus.

[Sagar G]

You have an appalling habit of blaming the IAF for the failures of HAL,

Good to know that HTT-35's failure was HAL's fault, any sources ???

by accusing IAF officers of lacking a patriotic outlook. Please apologise for your disgusting slander.

What slander and abuses ??? Point out. I am only going with the general view here on BRF that HAL is a turd world organization which should be done away with.

Here, 15 smiling IAF officers in front of their HAL made Surya Kiran:

http://www.mangalorean.com/news.php?new ... b15c25233d

But it's not beautiful had it been a foreign aircraft then so wouldn't have been the case.

[Sagar G]

^^^^
Looks like your PC has been infected by an incoherent nonsense generating virus.

Something which nowadays is found in abundance on BRF.

[eklavya]

^^^^
The IJT certainly has beautiful lines, but when will it be ready to replace the Kiran's? Please use your patriotic fervour to worry about real issues impacting the preparedness of the IAF.

[Sagar G]

^^^^
The IJT certainly has beautiful lines, but when will it be ready to replace the Kiran's? Please use your patriotic fervour to worry about real issues impacting the preparedness of the IAF.

Yeah and buying fighter jets with strings attached undoubtedly boosts the preparedness of IAF as was seen during Kargil. The issues facing IJT is being looked into and will be overcome there is no evidence which suggests otherwise and why is it always HAL's fault whether IAF is unprepared or not during wartime ??? Do you mean to say that IAF is subservient to HAL and does things according to it's whims and fancies ??? Was/Is the lack of PGM in IAF's inventory also HAL's fault ??? The ******** child treatment given to LCA was also HAL's fault ???

You didn't answer my question regarding HTT-35. Is your failure to answer also HAL's fault ????

[Brando]

. I mean it's always a better idea to run in the middle of a war begging in front of foreigners to allow us to modify there aircrafts so as to carry out precision strikes than trying to make an aircraft all by ourselves which will result in our independence from foreign arm twisting. I don't know which moron came up with this idea of trying to make an aerospace sector in India when we can purchase foreign aircrafts and proudly pose in front of them.

And yet, India spends $20 billion on MRCA, another $30 billion on PAK-FA with HAL offering its expertise in "screwdriver technology" ? Isn't it true that a HAL made Su-30 is more expensive than ones bought from Russia ??

I know you're trying to be clever but unfortunately the "facts" don't support your attempts at sarcasm. The basic fallacy suffered by many such HAL zindabad types is equating a domestic aerospace sector with a single entity - HAL. A HAL or bust approach!?

Even China - a Communist state with state capitalism has put its eggs in many baskets with nearly 5 large aviation companies working in tandem. In the 21st century, a bloated public sector enterprise with no competition or accountability is an obscene luxury that a third world country cannot afford. With India's demands for aerospace products so high and with it only likely to keep going up, it makes no sense to let HAL hold India hostage with its parasitic monopoly. Let them compete on a fair playing field and then I will entertain notions as to their "worth". So far the tens of billions in orders, equipment and manpower the Indian tax payer has sunk into that have brought scant rewards.

[shyamd]

10 IAF An-32s were parked in Muscat Airport last week. Is this part of the Ukraine deal?