Corruption in Arms Deals - News and Analysis

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Feb 2013 22:57

Rajiv Gandhi was either a collaborator or a scapegoat in Bofors. Sonia was the prime mover. Since, she was not in national prominence at that time & since a PM was directly implicated, she got away scot free. But one doesnt have to look far. One name says it all - Quattrocchi.

Her numerous shenanigans & power-hunger since then is what convinced me that Dr. Swamy is mostly correct about her. There is a very strong possibility that she was a KGB or Vatican plant all along, used to honey-trap Rajiv. The KGB, especially is known for such very-long-term plants.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 16 Feb 2013 00:47

KrishnaK wrote:What other deals do we have with Finmeccania ?

I don't know about other deals but we are soon going to sign shared prison deal with them.

Ajay Shukla interviews SP Tyagi on Chop-a-Scam

Damage control by UPA-II in progress.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Feb 2013 04:44

Ramanna,the Brits wanted us in their orbit,but with second rate weapons.Thus the Gnat which nobody wanted-ironically perfect for India,the Centurions and Vickers light tank (Vijayanta)-not Chieftains,were sold to us with manufacturing rights.Ex-WW2 warships was also all that we could afford.However when we wanted subs,and here's the rub,after training Indian sailors on them,the Brits refused.That is when India turned to Russia,also for a supersonic aircraft to match Paki Starfighters.

I do not think that there was much hank-panky with those deals.Or if ther ewas the amounts were small.What changed was India buying vast qtys. of arms from Russia at "friendship" prices.It was a govt. to govt. political decision,little room for western arms dealers and crony capitalists.We also couldn't afford western arms and they also wouldn't sell us their latest weaponry,not even subsonic US Skyhawks for the Vikrant.To balance the scales and to keep British jobs we were sold the Hermes and Harriers,Sea Kings,etc. The first controversial deal was the Jaguar,where Jagjivan Ram's son was kidnapped along with his moll and it was made to look as if he had an angle on the deal.

Rajiv by buying from the Swedes,discarding India's traditional suppliers,was fixed.There was one report that the deal was finalised after he had a meeting with Olaf Palme.Olaf Palme's assassination was linked.Here's one theory.

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/hkpage.a ... 676&SKIN=B

Assassination of Olaf Palme and Rajiv Gandhi-The Bofors connection: On February 28, 1986 , Olof Palme, Swedish Prime Minister, leader of the Social Democratic Party was gunned down on a Stockholm street home from a cinema with his wife, Lisbet. On May 21, 1991 Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated by the LTTE cadres, however, the main culprit is considered as Prabhakaran Palme cooked up the Bofors deal with Rajiv and both had interests in saving each other. Joginder Singh, CBI charged that Rajiv Gandhi was personally involved in the kickbacks received strong support from B. M. Oza, who was India 's ambassador to Sweden when the Bofors deal was being finalized in 1986. Oza published a book, "Bofors: The Ambassador's Evidence," in 1996, in which he said that he conducted his own investigation into the arms deal and was warned by Rajiv's office to desist from doing so. "I had no doubt in my mind that the commissions were actually the bribe money for Rajiv Gandhi paid by Bofors through [Ottavio] Quattrochi," Ambassador Oza writes. As both PMs were reportedly involved in the muddlings connected with arms and drugs and it turn receiving kickbacks from them, they were eliminated as they could not keep up their words with the involved mafia.

LTTE, drugs, arms and assassinations: Their Italian connections: The involvement of LTTE in these assassinations was suspected strongly, as both leaders were not only involved in the Bofors, but also indirectly drugs-deal and distribution of commission arising thereof. The LTTE has been a big player in getting drugs from the Taliban drug mafia from the Golden Triangle and distribute in the SEA countries and as well as the Central American countries. Though Columbian drug mafia was suspected, LTTE's role is found, as they engaged themselves as dealers in both commodities "arms and drugs". The Italian connection noted made many cautious in the issues. However, considering the Sonia presence in India , such facts have been blacked out in India , as the Indians may think differently, if they come to know these facts. The Scandinavian connection with LTTE has been intriguing, though political analysts have been pointing out it carefully. Ironically, the so-called LTTE sympathizers spread in many countries – Canada, France, Australia, UK, South Africa, Mauritius have been millionaires funding the LTTE operations as in turn they get commissions for their luxurious lives. Thus, the powerful "intelligentsia" operates effectively through internet.

Rajiv, Palme, Quttrochi, arms – are all well connected: Olof Palme the PM of Sweden and the Indian thief Rajiv Gandhi directly negotiated the Bofors deal of SEK 8.4 billion for the Swedish armaments company Bofors to supply the Indian Army with howitzers. in which a percentage of commission was agreed as bribe for Rajiv Gandhi. Sonia's boyfriend Ottavio Quttrochi had started the shady company called AE Services, based in Guilford , Surrey , England , to collect bribe for Rajiv Gandhi. When details of bribe came out in the open, Ottavio Quttrochi and his Italian mafia sent a lone gunman to Stockholm, Sweden and assassinated Olof Palme on Friday, 28 February, 1986, to stop further revelations on bofors kickback. The British Intelligence MI6 had vital clues of the assassination, but the Swedish police suppressed it. There was a book `Blood on the Snow: The Killing of Olof Palme' written by Jan Bondeson advanced a theory that Palme's murder was linked with arms trades to India. Bondeson's book meticulously recreated the assassination and its aftermath, and suggested that Palm had used his friendship with Rajiv Ganhi to secure a SEK 8.4 billion deal for the Swedish armaments company Bofors to supply the Indian Army with howitzers. However, Palme did not know that behind his back Bofors had used a shady company called AE Services — nominally based in Guildford, Surrey, England — to bribe Indian government officials to conclude the deal. Thus, the sudden exoneration of Quttrochi by the CBI definitely at the behest of Sonia has raised questions recently.

There is one theory on this site that RG was actually bumped off by Quattrochi and the LTTE,the whole conversation with Balasingham recorded by French Intel in Paris.Q hoped that with RG off the scene for good,the scandal would die out.The absence of any heavyweight Congressman at the meeting where RG was killed is like the "dog that didn''t bark in the night!".No one has also found out who tipped off Swedish radio/media who first exposed the Bofors scam.

Bofors,HDW,etc.,saw a new phase where the presence of powerful agents emerged,both desi and firang.As our purchases have grown by leaps and bounds,the manufacturers are engaged in their own dirty tricks to scuttle both on-going and done deals.The suspicion that a rival nation/manufacturer has exposed the trail of agents is very strong.The big hope is that that the AW scam will also find a link to the Rafale deal and scuttle it.Our media have been given the "scent" (by whom?) and are off like bloodhounds let loose!

However,there is no doubt that it was after the emergence of SG and her leadership of the Congress that scams in India under Congress rule have reached galactic heights.It appears that no decision made by the GOI of the day does not have an angle to it.An SIT shoudl examine ALL deals made by MMS's venal regime and get at the truth.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 16 Feb 2013 05:03

Philip wrote:Bofors,HDW,etc.,saw a new phase where the presence of powerful agents emerged,both desi and firang.As our purchases have grown by leaps and bounds,the manufacturers are engaged in their own dirty tricks to scuttle both on-going and done deals.The suspicion that a rival nation/manufacturer has exposed the trail of agents is very strong.The big hope is that that the AW scam will also find a link to the Rafale deal and scuttle it.Our media have been given the "scent" (by whom?) and are off like bloodhounds let loose!

Looks like thats the primary motive, Intelligence agencies should be engaging these powerful middlemen when they visit India, no wonder the ones identified in this scandal are now avoiding travel to India. Hope we deal with this situation unconventionally.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Feb 2013 05:45

It will be another "Operation cover-up".Frantic travelling by our CBI,SIT,spooks,etc.,given much media reportage of Indian "demands" of info from Italy,etc.,(while Union ministers and babus quietly travel abroad and tell their counterparts to send nothing!),and the guilty quietly head off to countries where extradition is impossible.So eventually,all the stagecraft will signify nothing,the result of the investigation will be that none in the govt. is to blame,the culprits are the former air chief and his relatives and the rest is all murky Italian politics.The fallen "saint",will squeak that the deal has been stopped and the late Brajesh Mishra will be unable to defend himself .As for Christian Michel...who he? Quattrochi due?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 16 Feb 2013 06:04

The CBI completely became a Congress Beurau of Investigation. There is not a single case that it solved without politicizing it. The next administration should completely dissolve it, give a golden shake hand to all its employees and start all over agin.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Feb 2013 06:22

Philip wrote:
"perfect for India,the Centurions and Vickers light tank (Vijayanta)"

The centurion were excellent tanks
As a matter of fact after India decommissioned them with the influx of T54 T55 and vickers vijayanta
Israel purchased throught out commonwealth countries and upgraded them with sterling results in 6 day war 1967 and 1973 Yom Kippur war.

Here from wiki

It became one of the most widely used tank designs, equipping armies around the world, with some still in service until the 1990s.[3] As recently as the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict the Israel Defense Forces employed heavily modified Centurions as armoured personnel carriers and combat engineering vehicles. The SANDF still employs over 200 Centurions. The South African vehicles were modernized in the 1980s, and the resulting model is known as the Olifant.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Feb 2013 07:37

Despite ban, middlemen abound in defence deals - Businessline

All attempts of the Defence Ministry to rein in middlemen in defence deals have met with little success. This lobby is just too powerful as has become evident once again in the recent VVIP chopper deal.

Though use of agents is banned in this sector, revelations in this deal tell a different story.

Dominated by four or five big players, mainly from high profile families, who call themselves consultants, these agents/consultants enjoy a monopoly in facilitating defence deals for foreign or domestic entities.

According to industry sources, these handful of players play an important role in deals where the stakes are high. The players include some flamboyant members of Parliament as well as retired defence officials.

India, which has already invested about $50 billion in defence purchases in the last decade, is supposed to spend more than $100 billion in this decade.

Industry circles confirm that the commission given by companies to agents ranges from four per cent to 15 per cent.

But agents or consultants are officially recognised in the energy sector, unlike in the defence sector.

On the legalisation of agents for the defence sector, a section of defence industrialists claims that as in the petroleum sector, where agents are legalised, this can be done for defence sector as well. But the Defence Ministry, points out a source, is not open to this idea.

An informal attempt by the Defence Ministry in the past to officially recognise agents had met with stiff opposition from the players themselves. No one came forward to declare themselves as agents, the source added.

There were also fears that if the ban is lifted, it may lead to political opposition as most of the agents have political linkages. An industry source claimed there is “inherent contradiction” in the Defence Ministry’s stand on the issue.

He said on the one hand, in the Defence Procurement Procedure, the Government lays down a condition that the vendor is required to give full details of any agents or technical consultants that may have been appointed by them for marketing of their equipment in India.

On the other hand, the procedure adds that a seller will be debarred from entering into any supply contract if found engaging an agent to market its products.

Soon, India will end up with black marking all defence suppliers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2013 07:47

KrishnaK wrote:What other deals do we have with Finmeccania ?

consultant for the ADS ship, i think we buy some LWT from them and iirc some IAF ATC , landing aids modernization deal as well.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Feb 2013 07:48

The Centurion was not a second rate weapon - the logical extension being the modern western MBTs and Arjun

how great the base is - can be seen from the fact that they can keep upgrading it to present day in the Olifant while tin cans ... oh well

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Feb 2013 07:56

SSridhar wrote:Despite ban, middlemen abound in defence deals - Businessline
An industry source claimed there is “inherent contradiction” in the Defence Ministry’s stand on the issue.

He said on the one hand, in the Defence Procurement Procedure, the Government lays down a condition that the vendor is required to give full details of any agents or technical consultants that may have been appointed by them for marketing of their equipment in India.

On the other hand, the procedure adds that a seller will be debarred from entering into any supply contract if found engaging an agent to market its products.

Actually there is no inherent contradiction IMO. It would be good to see all defence deals cancelled. Some things need to be learned the hard way.

It would be fun in an ironic way of the Rafale deal gets cancelled because of middlemen.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 16 Feb 2013 08:00

Was this the straw that broke the camel's back?

TOI has a report saying that thr day before the contract was awarded to AW,its CEO "Gippy" Orsi was dining at a swank Delhi 5* restaurant.Spotting his rivals from Sikorsky at another table,Orsi sent over a bottle of bubbly along with a note which read-"you can't win all the time".The head of the Sikorsky delegation was so miffed that he left the room. Rivalry between the two reached lethal levels when AW was also selected for Obama's MC-1.However,intense pressure from Sikorsky,as it would've been an insult to endure to have the US pres. flying in a European helicopter,saw Obama cancel the deal as it was "too costly".THis has become a truyl sick joke as the US pres now plans to spend several billions more on acquiring 10 copters/Ospreys for the same purpose ! A similar contract that selected the Airbus taker for the USAF was sabotaged by Boeing in similar fashion.India is now the battleground between the US and EU,Israel quietly allowing these two to slug it out,while Russia seeks to protect its traditional turf.

The fact that it was a US whistleblower who ripped the lid off the scandal cannot be under emphasised.It shows how rivals perhaps get their own spies ,or turn employees to look after the interests of competitors.In the shady world of arms deals,"all is fair as in love and war".

Finmeccanica has absorbed many Italian and EU companies.With the EU nations also sharing production across EU frontiers from Airbus' products downwards,this is actually an EU scandal.No watch how the EU empire will bit back at their Yanqui rivals!

With many deals in the offing for naval helos,MMR aircraft,etc.,the helo requirement is supposed to be over 500 alone,and FM involved in part or whole in the EU contenders,it will have a bearing upon the selection.The main gainers will undoubtedly be the US companies in the running.

PS:The Centurion like the Hunter which could've sold another 500+ if production had continued according to some sources,was inferior to the Chieftain at the time.True the Centurion performed well in combat,Israel picked up a lot of tanks from nations replacing them,but it was no match for more modern tanks which appeared later.It's why we were given the VLT (Vijayanta) to produce at home.The Challenger,M-1 were never offered to us along with cutting edge western weaponry until the last decade.Remember also after P-2 the sanctions regine that the US imposed and its impact on the LCA.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 16 Feb 2013 08:08

The Soviet arms supply to India during the 1960s and 1970s were probably the only arms purchases made by independent India without a bribe being paid to somebody - for two reasons, one, that the Soviets were themselves short of hard currency and therefore could not bribe, two, the primary purpose of arms supplies during that time was fighting the idealogical battles of the Cold War and India was very much a part of the Soviet camp. Other than that period I dont think there has been a single overseas purchase since 1947 without somebody in India being paid a bribe and that includes both the Cong and the NDA. There are scams around which have not yet seen the light of day.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 16 Feb 2013 08:14

Pinaki Misra of BJD yesterday was the first politician on TV I have heard in the last few days who wanted to drive the discussion and agenda towards legalizing and structuring role of lobbyists/agents/middlemen.

Neither the anchor nor the other panelists took up on that - I guess conspiracy theories and scoring political points is an easier way out and much more fun than critical thinking and implementing systems. In many ways a reflection of the quality of discussion on this thread as well.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 16 Feb 2013 08:23

RajitO wrote:Pinaki Misra of BJD yesterday was the first politician on TV I have heard in the last few days who wanted to drive the discussion and agenda towards legalizing and structuring role of lobbyists/agents/middlemen.

Neither the anchor nor the other panelists took up on that - I guess conspiracy theories and scoring political points is an easier way out and much more fun than critical thinking and implementing systems. In many ways a reflection of the quality of discussion on this thread as well.

In the Indian context, the only role of the middlemen is as trusted intermediaries who can figure out how the bribe is to be structured and paid.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Feb 2013 08:33

PS:The Centurion like the Hunter which could've sold another 500+ if production had continued according to some sources,was inferior to the Chieftain at the time.True the Centurion performed well in combat,Israel picked up a lot of tanks from nations replacing them,but it was no match for more modern tanks which appeared later.It's why we were given the VLT (Vijayanta) to produce at home.The Challenger,M-1 were never offered to us along with cutting edge western weaponry until the last decade.Remember also after P-2 the sanctions regine that the US imposed and its impact on the LCA.

comment in armor thread

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Feb 2013 09:14

Singha wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:What other deals do we have with Finmeccania ?
consultant for the ADS ship, i think we buy some LWT from them and iirc some IAF ATC , landing aids modernization deal as well.

Fincantieri, not Finmeccanica. So INS Vikrant is safe, however keep fingers crossed, as Fincantieri has provided Deepak class ships.

I had posted this under the nukkad-knicker thread....

It is not AKA, even before him they did this sort of knee jerk cancellations. Remember the Denel and before that the good old Bofors cancellations? As if the public will say "good boy!", because they cancelled the deal

After the recent fracas in public space about "corruption", I had hoped against hope that India as a whole, will get interested in figuring difference between "non-western way of doing business" and "corruption". Forget about "reforming" any political parties - they will get things done one way or the other. But it is up to the public to actively engage them and make sure regulations are in place and not these sorts of knee-jerk cancellations.

eg: why not have registered arms agents, who file returns and gets strictly audited? During a war, odds are high that these guys, with their networking, can save our bacon with spares and odd knicknacks. And if I want to get a copy of say J10, these folks can do a much better job than Raaa et al and with much better plausible deniability.

All these sort of issues happen in west too, but they assimilate these practices (after study by academia/thinktanks) under "regulations" and resolutely move forward. And then it becomes defacto "world standard" for doing business. Indian public discourse (be it academics, politicians or even college level debates) on the other hand means just sit down on our thumbs and do auto-fellatio. Unseemly and useless to all.

But India love drama and story telling, more than the no nonsense military style of getting things done. So we will bumble from one scam to another, a full three decades after Bofors first paid out a few monies. Even today, as RajitO-saar has pointed out, no one is discussing ways to incorporate the legal middle-men as a vital, tax-paying and heavily scrutinized entity in the supply-chain.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Feb 2013 09:27

Philip, The IAF Fighter pilots setup the Sabre traps and shot them down. It was the man behind the machine and not machine itself. Same with the Centurions in Assal Uttar. Again the man behind the machine. QMH Abdul Hamid shot up four Pattons in about that many minutes.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Feb 2013 10:35

Now Tehelka makes a lot of sense. GF was a real pain in the Butt and they wanted to get rid of him. He was the saint and the current RM.

Those 4-5 agents with Political Links were put out of business, hence the cancellation of Denel contracts and 155mm shell production at Nalanda was cancelled without an Iota of Proof or what the corruption was, it was just- there are rumors that they believe it is possible some foreign agency commission could have been paid.

No Control system can work if the Tone at the top is Pro corruption, then the system will be corrupt. if commission agents are allowed, what is their rationale, both buyer and seller should normally meet. It would officially allowing Bribes. Can politicians justify it.

Look at 1998-2004.

In spite of sanctions LCA took off, Agni program me restarted, Brahmos program started, First order for Arjun tanks, INSAS inducted in high numbers, our local defense Industry was given a lot of momentum. Nobody says that period was perfect, but it is clear where the Arms agents are connected.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Feb 2013 12:22

Italian Court documents speak of 'the family' getting 28 M Euros - ToI

Who is 'the family' ?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Feb 2013 12:49

Don't forget the Italian investigation started after the marines were arrested in Kerala as a way to get back at us.

Secondly, it appears the intelligence agencies informed the CCS about Tyagi's activities since 2007. So everyone was quite aware of it within the govt.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Feb 2013 13:21

shyamd wrote:<SNIP>

Secondly, it appears the intelligence agencies informed the CCS about Tyagi's activities since 2007. So everyone was quite aware of it within the govt.

Which activities and of which Tyagi? The ACM or his brothers?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Feb 2013 14:12

Former chief of air staff himself and the fact that he was advising, lobbying for certain firms.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Feb 2013 15:06

shyamd wrote:Former chief of air staff himself and the fact that he was advising, lobbying for certain firms.

How cute....so, the intelligence agencies supposedly knew about him and his lobbying and did nothing? And in case of AW-101 deal, I'm sure they are completely clueless about the real beneficiary of the deal who got the largest share of the pay-off... As usual, our intel seems to miss the forest for trees.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2013 15:42

Its no more amusing how these arms lobby personality can bail top bosses of Air Force and can go into chief office and bribe him like it happened with VKS.

How many of these top officers within and retired are in the system and remains undetected is another matter.

It is job of IB to keep track of such people who try to bribe people at high places and neutralise them before they can do harm but scams after scams shows Intel people are clue less

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2013 15:43

India Today: Rs.350 cr Scam Shatters Antony

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Feb 2013 18:50

wheels within wheels, there are murkier things at work here than just pure bribery - hard to tell, but lentils and pasta are both black, only time will tell

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2013 18:55

The italian govt must have been aware from day1 who paid the bribes and to which parties and people in india.
So presuming they wanted to pressure the upa, why are they forging ahead and put their top guy in jail and fired up calls in india that upa could have got some money. Upa is supposed to be italy pasand.

Is the italian govt bailing on the upa?

Or is big khan squeezing italian gonads over this and making them unwillingly do it...why does big khan care about this relatively minor deal so much when fatty meat like c17 is on plate to feast?

Or maybe it just unwittingly landed on the table of some incorruptible anti mafia type judge in italy who went feral and started working it honestly

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Feb 2013 19:28

Singha

we may do disservice to honest truth seeking Italians by assuming this is purely the outcome of some other crossfire

In that corrupt, mafia ridden system honest officials are always checking and may have just zoomed on in as part of a normal pursuit.

they may have thought this a La Piovra thing and just found a different type of family

Rampy · Post by **Rampy** » 16 Feb 2013 19:49

Singha wrote:The italian govt must have been aware from day1 who paid the bribes and to which parties and people in india.
So presuming they wanted to pressure the upa, why are they forging ahead and put their top guy in jail and fired up calls in india that upa could have got some money. Upa is supposed to be italy pasand.

Is the italian govt bailing on the upa?

Or is big khan squeezing italian gonads over this and making them unwillingly do it...why does big khan care about this relatively minor deal so much when fatty meat like c17 is on plate to feast?

Or maybe it just unwittingly landed on the table of some incorruptible anti mafia type judge in italy who went feral and started working it honestly

My thought is there is MMS link here, this is fight within INC. MMS keeping his gaddy till next year or election by 2013. Buddhu and AK are out. MMS is close to US is it not?

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 16 Feb 2013 20:27

VVIP chopper scandal may hit Congress, derail Rafale deal.

Does the bribe-tainted AgustaWestland VVIP helicopter deal have a link to the Congress party?

The Italian media is abuzz with Christian Michel's (the alleged middleman in deal) father reportedly being close to the Congress party. According to Italian newspaper Lettera 43, another agent, Guido Ralph Haschke was on the directors' board of Emaar-MGF, a real estate company owned by relatives of Kanishka Singh who is reportedly associated with members of the Congress party.Haschke, a Switzerland-based defence middleman who holds dual passports of Italy and the United States, is said to be in Dubai. He was on Emaar-MGF's directors' board when the company bagged the Commonwealth Games deal. He had to resign in 2009 after the scam came out.

The Central Bureau of Investigation has its task cut out. Sources in the agency say that they would seek out these reports and get to the bottom of the case, but added that it is too premature to comment on the investigations now.The CBI's prime focus would now be to find out who Michel is and how his father is connected to the Congress. It would also be interesting to find out if this alleged connection was instrumental in pushing the deal through.

The Italian media says that Michel, the British middleman of Finmeccanica, allegedly had a strong connection with the Indian defence establishment.His father, Max Michel was allegedly linked to the Congress in the 1980s. Michel is said to have continued this connection which his father had established.

Further, it is alleged that Michel was an agent for French aviation major Dassault, which recently won the $10 billion Indian Air Force contract for medium multi-role combat aircraft.Back in 2004, Michel had sued Dassault over a payment issue for the purchase of the Mirage aircraft for the IAF. He, however, lost the case that as his contract with Dassault had expired.

Sources say that this gains significance today to show his association with Indian dealings.It is alleged that in 2012, Michel received Rs 210 crore in kickbacks out of the Rs 360 crore allotted for bribes by Finmeccanica, the manufactures of AgustaWestland helicopters.The probe report in an Italian court states that former Finmeccanica CEO Giuseppe Orsi and AgustaWestland CEO Bruno Spagnolini had paid Rs 217 crore to Michel.

Indian investigators would also explore the confession made by Haschke in the Italian court about the involvement of former Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 16 Feb 2013 20:45

Don't blame the Italians when our own house is made up idiots looters and crooks.
What a shame, how much do they want to loot?

The music to the ears of UPA II coalition drama

Italian court refuses to share VVIP chopper probe details with Indian govt

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Feb 2013 20:59

rohitvats wrote: How cute....so, the intelligence agencies supposedly knew about him and his lobbying and did nothing? And in case of AW-101 deal, I'm sure they are completely clueless about the real beneficiary of the deal who got the largest share of the pay-off... As usual, our intel seems to miss the forest for trees.

It poses a lot of questions, why was he picked up under the scanner by the agencies? Thats the important question and why were the CCS informed of this and what effect did this info have?

Lobbying etc is not illegal and its quite common in india and many countries for retired babus, defence wallas. However, its common knowledge that a lot of these lobbyists, mil sales walla's double up as intel operatives for the west etc especially in india. My suspicion is he was under the scanner for this reason.

I also think that INC/UPA is more than prepared for the fall out of this case.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 16 Feb 2013 21:08

It can't help but notice the similarities in this Chopper Scandal and Scorpene scandal that was reported by Outlook.

Just like this Chopper deal, Scorpene purchase was started in NDA period.

Just as this deal, there was delay, shall I add inordinate delay, in 'fixing' the Scorpene deal.

Just as this deal where Air Chief and his relatives acted as middlemen/ beneficiaries, media reported the involvement of then Naval Chief and his relative.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 16 Feb 2013 21:17

I think i posted this yesterday, but didn't go through. Alenia and Oto Melara seem to be Finmeccania companies.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Feb 2013 22:07

shyamd wrote: It poses a lot of questions, why was he picked up under the scanner by the agencies? Thats the important question and why were the CCS informed of this and what effect did this info have?

Lobbying etc is not illegal and its quite common in india and many countries for retired babus, defence wallas. However, its common knowledge that a lot of these lobbyists, mil sales walla's double up as intel operatives for the west etc especially in india. My suspicion is he was under the scanner for this reason.

I also think that INC/UPA is more than prepared for the fall out of this case.

Well, pardon for being blunt, but I have a feeling here that you're batting for Congress here.

First question - why should Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) be informed about ex-ACM Tyagi being under scanner? The Ministry of Home Affairs or MOD (and by extension - IB and R&AW) are perfectly capable of dealing with any issue w/o CCS coming into picture - so, why are you stating that CCS was informed? What purpose did it serve? Do any of these ministries need permission from CCS to proceed against an ex-Service Chief?

Second question - if ex-ACM was under scanner and found indulging in activities inimical to national security - why was he not arrested or his activities stopped?

Third question - If the entire wrong doing in AW-101 deal is his work - and if intelligence agencies were tracking his activities - why was the deal allowed to go through? After all, if one were to believe you, UPA/INC are prepared because they know who is the villain of the story and can clearly put the blame on the individual - ACM Tyagi in this case. Was the UPA/INC waiting for the scam to come out to blow the lid of the main culprit?

Sorry sir, but you're deflecting the blame hereby giving selective information.

If anything comes out of your one liners, it is this: that the agencies - working at the behest of powers-that-be have enough material on Tyagi to pin the blame on him or, deflect the attention on him to take the usual suspects out of the media and public gaze.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Feb 2013 22:18

rohitvats, Maybe Tyagi was being monitored to ensure all transactions are being reported accurately and there is no siphoning?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Feb 2013 22:58

ramana wrote:rohitvats, Maybe Tyagi was being monitored to ensure all transactions are being reported accurately and there is no siphoning?

ramana, the more I look at this deal, the more it seems to me like one of those 'protection money' rackets run by local goons.

I'm not saying that ACM Tyagi is clean or otherwise - simply that if he was involved along with his brothers, it was more on the lines of being the runner boy. Summarized chronology of events is as such -

1. The premise for including AW-101 was there based on letter by former NSA Brajesh Mishra.
2. For some reasons, the deal did not move through at all between 2003 and 2006. Remember, IAF had raised a request-and an urgent one-for new Choppers in 2002 and by 2002-03, they already had identified vendors ( and the subsequent single vendor situation).
3. So, 2006 is when new RFP is out and by 2010 we have a deal. As someone remarked, it was "too" smooth for a defense deal in India.

Another important data point which needs to be factored here is that T3 brothers are not exactly known as heavy weights in defense deal circles. So, how come no one wrote anonymous letters or leaked news in the media to scuttle the deal? Unless, they knew someone very "powerful" was behind the deal from word go? Someone who could not be touched or it would end of the road of complainant?

Here is my theory -

1. The AW-101 helicopter deal may well stand on its own merit. The helicopter was good and suited the requirement.
2. But the very act of initiating the process and subsequent clearance from CCS and commercial transactions could not happen unless someone was rooting for the deal. Let us call this someone as X
3. So, X got the ball rolling in 2006 after the deal was dormant for couple of years. The premise for inclusion of AW-101 was already there - supporting comments from SPG and PMO were a foregone conclusion.
4. As I said earlier, the deal was a done thing from technical viewpoint - for example, no one can argue against 3 engine helicopter versus with 2 engines for VVIPs - even if price is more than 10% percent than the 2 engine helicopter.

5. The role of ACM Tyagi - if he is involved - was to act as technical manager in the deal. During and after his tenure as ACM.
6. T3 brothers could have been used for the very fact that they are nobody as far as defense deals are concerned. They were to simply work as front for the deal and to ensure easy liaison with ACM Tyagi.
7. Hence, they got paid peanuts as compared to the entire transaction.

8. The real backing for the deal came from X and who got paid the bulk of kickback. It was because of this support from X that no one dared to interfere in the deal for they knew that if they did, their goose would be cooked forever in India. The entire gamut of Indian machinery from CBI to ED to DRI would have hounded these people. And mind you, as against their normal routine, these agencies are damn efficient when they want to be.

9. T3 brothers (and ACM Tyagi) got money simply for the "sweat" they put into the deal. With the involvement of PMO in the deal, even an ACM could not have done anything if the PMO wished otherwise.

10. The reason I suspect ex-ACM Tyagi has some role to play is because of this appointment to Chair of recent Siachen CBM drama. The powers that be required someone they could trust and who could work as per the script...script which was written in PMO. This group of ex-Services/Intelligence/Foreign Ministry was put together to simply give it a formal shape.

11. Unless someone can show money trail from T3 to ex-ACM Tyagi, I don't think they can nail him. I doubt any documentary evidence exists to show Aw-101 was unduly favored. As I said earlier, this was a done deal and X simply took protection money to ensure it happened.

12. The Rafale deal is also going to be one the same plane...I think now I know what Subramaniam Swami meant when he was talking about Sonia angle to the deal. On every possible count, it is a clean deal. Like AW-101, the selection of Rafale on technical parameters was done by IAF - so, no one can raise any finger here. They came out L1 in the financials. All in all, the nation gets best deal. While the first family gets the protection money to ensure the deal goes through. After all, how hard is to postpone a deal citing financial crunch?

All in all, the corruption has been regularized in the defense procurement arena. And I have a strong feeling that deals where the first family has not been able to make money (or, cannot afford to - like artillery) are being derailed with MOD quick to ban and blacklist the firms. After all, why did Mr. Clean not act on Aw-101 11 months earlier?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 17 Feb 2013 01:25

You mean not act?

After all, why did Mr. Clean act on Aw-101 11 months earlier?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Feb 2013 01:50

Surya wrote:You mean not act?
After all, why did Mr. Clean act on Aw-101 11 months earlier?

Aye...corrected it. Thanks.