Su-30: News and Discussion

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SaiK
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 07 Feb 2013 18:28

good question.. is it chewing strategy or technology drawing time to become mature as it could be AESA is under used of its potential., or net centric adaption? dunno what they talk, but it is definitely not good to reveal to DDM that it is not super sukhoi version.. then might as well wait till they are ready. what is all this Putin-MMS masala I don't understand.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 07 Feb 2013 20:50

Su-30MKI equivalent for Russian Air Force , Su-30SM Pictures

http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/355221.html

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 08 Feb 2013 21:43

They are using some kind mesh-cover to prevent the engine from radar reflection?

Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 08 Feb 2013 22:26

To me it looks more like mesh for FOD while on ground then a radar blocker , Blocker are generally more sophisticated in design

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 09 Feb 2013 00:33

Austin wrote:To me it looks more like mesh for FOD while on ground then a radar blocker , Blocker are generally more sophisticated in design


Yup. That is very clearly a FOD prevention grill.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby nachiket » 09 Feb 2013 05:53

The aircraft would also have the highly-advanced Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) named the ‘Zhuk-AESA’ Radar system. This can track 30 aerial targets in the track-while-scan mode and engage six targets simultaneously in attack mode.

So no Irbis-E or whatever is the latest from NIIP's stable? Zhuk-AE was originally meant for the Mig-35 and will have a smaller diameter antenna. Unless they have an enlarged version for the Flanker.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 09 Feb 2013 08:36

NIIP AESA for PAK-FA is still undergoing flight testing and debugging and perhaps would continue this for another 3-4 years , ZHuk-AE development on the other had its done and its ready with weapons test done etc.

So it depends on when the Super Sukhoi comes along , If IAF can wait till end of the decade then they can opt for NIIP AESA.

Also i doubt if the current AL-31FP engine have enough power to run Irbis PESA or NIIP AESA besides all the other stuff that needs electricity , so that may perhaps limit the choice to Zhuk-AE radar if an engine upgrade is not planned for Super MKI

Although NIIT Chief in interview with Take Off Magazine indicates that Super MKI may get radar from 5th Gen PMF program

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 09 Feb 2013 17:18

Austin wrote:To me it looks more like mesh for FOD while on ground then a radar blocker , Blocker are generally more sophisticated in design

Could you post some pics of FOD blocker as my Google failed me :oops:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 10 Feb 2013 06:37

sarabpal.s wrote:
Austin wrote:To me it looks more like mesh for FOD while on ground then a radar blocker , Blocker are generally more sophisticated in design

Could you post some pics of FOD blocker as my Google failed me :oops:

FOD (Foreign Object Damage) blocker is a fancy name for a mesh that prevents large objects like birds and plastic bottles from being ingested by the engines,

Here is an ALH Dhruv with such a mesh over its intake
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 362951.jpg

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 10 Feb 2013 07:03

shiv wrote:FOD (Foreign Object Damage) blocker is a fancy name for a mesh that prevents large objects like birds and plastic bottles from being ingested by the engines,


whatever fancy name it has, is not On A Su30MKI. look like a new development because I can't find other pics of Sukhoi with it

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 10 Feb 2013 07:19

sarabpal.s wrote:
shiv wrote:FOD (Foreign Object Damage) blocker is a fancy name for a mesh that prevents large objects like birds and plastic bottles from being ingested by the engines,


whatever fancy name it has, is not On A Su30MKI. look like a new development because I can't find other pics of Sukhoi with it


On the other hand I guess a grill of that size would hardly block the entry and exit of radar emission. Only birds and leaves are stopped.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 10 Feb 2013 08:57

sarabpal.s wrote:
shiv wrote:FOD (Foreign Object Damage) blocker is a fancy name for a mesh that prevents large objects like birds and plastic bottles from being ingested by the engines,


whatever fancy name it has, is not On A Su30MKI. look like a new development because I can't find other pics of Sukhoi with it

That grill was always present (even on the MKI) . It is deployed during take off and landing only. You can see it lying down on the intake floor here.
Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sarabpal.s » 10 Feb 2013 21:02

Thanks for dear . but it deployed. I don't see any mechanism

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 10 Feb 2013 21:14

It does not have to be deployed every time it takes off or lands. Only in situations where they deem it necessary to so. I would imagine all IAF bases are clean enough.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 11 Feb 2013 01:19

sarabpal.s wrote:Thanks for dear . but it deployed. I don't see any mechanism


It has actuators on the inner hinge housed within the intake walls.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 12 Feb 2013 02:57

Integration and testing has been delayed hugely principally by the Sukhoi Design Bureau's reluctance to prioritise cooperation in helping with the modifications required to integrate the missile with the Su-30.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19908

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 15 Feb 2013 08:50

We - the Indian Air Force officers [ use your favourite translator]
Interview with P.Lall - known Indian Su-30MKI

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby member_20067 » 15 Feb 2013 10:38

Austin wrote:We - the Indian Air Force officers [ use your favourite translator]
Interview with P.Lall - known Indian Su-30MKI


I was looking up for P.Lall in google.. and stumbled upon another interesting character from IAF --- Retired Sq. Leader Steve P. Lall from IAF--- apparently an ace Mig-21 ... pilot...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/markdmarti ... /lightbox/


Squadron Leader Steve Lall or as we call him in India “Uncle Steve” joined the Indian Air Force along with my old back in 1966. Not only were they course mates, there were entry mates at the time of enlisting and also fought the 1971 war together.

Steve was a born pilot, he was amongst the first bunch of guys who took charge of the MiG 21 when our Air force got them and in no time he mastered that aircraft. Steve was a kick-ass pilot and was too good at what he did which was air combat maneuvering or “dog-fighting” during the days when air defence was a critical strategy. Steve always stood for what was right no matter which class, creed, stature, race and caste he backed.

While he had admirers, he too had a bunch of guys who despised him because he was good and they tried their best to find an opportunity to screw him. No one could touch Steve when it came to flying, so the only way to get him out of their way was to create situations which made life hard for him.

And with this, Steve turned into a rebel, stretching the law, defying rules and every time he broke a law, he made that a milestone as he went along.

Steve, sometime in 1974 got into a situation in which he was court martialed from the air force and was made to leave. While the Air Force lost an outstanding pilot, this changed him. He took over his old man’s property called the Jilling Estate which more or less is two whole mountains in the Himalayas’, married a mountain girl and called the hills his home ever since.

Steve over the years learnt and realized the meaning of life and that meant finding happiness, peace, solace and serenity in the little that he had and made that his world. The mountains made Steve a whole new man and made him realize what it meant to live. He took up biking, became a nature and wildlife conservationist and got into eco-tourism by subletting cottages in the estate to the adventurous.

Today Steve owns 6 bikes, selectively gives his place up in the hills on rent, bikes across the whole of India and derives happiness at every single step of the way, or hairpin turn on the mountains.

Steve and my old man were close and some of the stuff they did back in the old days I’d personally never ever think of trying even today.

Some of the wacked out stuff that Steve did back in the day were:

• Taking his dog Kanchi (a wire haired Dachund) up for a sortie in a Mig 21; he had Air Force Sergeant Unni make a special harness that strapped Kanchi to his G-suit and took her for 1 sortie below 10,000 ft and did a few high speed passes across the tower.


• After a binging session in the Air Force Mess and Club, Steve and a few folks decided to drive a steam roller back home and during the way, decided to say a quick ‘hello’ to the station commanding officer. Steve, while being an outstanding pilot, miscalculated the turn ability of the steam roller and flattened the commanding officers front gate, lawn and porch.

Steve and my old man created a band in the air force and in the day, many a damsel swore that Steve looked like Tony Curtiss, my old man looked by Charles Bronson and another lad they had on the drums resembled Dean Martin. Steve was awesome with the Trumpet but being short-tempered, when he did not get the right note he wanted, he threw the German made trumpet on the floor and stamped it on the stage.

The station Steve was posted in came out with a rule that dogs were to be leashed always at the station(!) so Steve to defy the rule, took Kanchi his dog, on top of his Harley Davidson he had, wore his swimming trunks and rode his bike straight into the swimming pool. That pretty much ended the rule.(!!).

If there’s anyone who at any age wants to learn and know the true meaning of life and that too with biking maintenance techniques thrown in, and aint that crazy in the mind to take up smoking weed at 35 or joining the sex oozing Osho Ashram, I recommend spending a week with Steve.


To know more about an outstanding human being called Steve Lall, visit www.jilling.net

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby merlin » 15 Feb 2013 11:06

That jilling estate has been on my must visit list for years now. I didn't know a former fighter pilot was the owner, now the visit will happen :-D

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby sudhan » 19 Feb 2013 21:14


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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2013 09:29

Interesting Algerian Su-30MKA and Russian Su-30SM uses HAL built computer as on MKI

Russia places Rs 65-crore order for procuring 34 radar computers

Russia has placed orders worth Rs 65 crore for procuring 34 radar computers for Su-30s of its air force.

"Irkut Corporation of Russia has confirmed purchase of 34 sets each of Radar Computer-I & Radar Computer-II for Russian Air force requirements from HAL with delivery schedule commencing from January 2014 onwards," the premier Indian aerospace PSU said in a release.

"The value of the contract is Rs 65 crore," it said. Radar computers are integrated into Airborne Radar System in Su-30s and are very critical for mission operation of the aircraft," it said.


Till date, a total of 300 of these computers are produced by the HAL for various aircraft programmes of Indian Air Force, Algerian Air force and Russian Airforce through Rosoboronexport.

HAL is in-charge for license-producing the Su-30MKIs for the IAF and has been working towards indigenising several components of the aircraft to reduce dependence on imports for spare parts and other equipment.

Under the Indian programme, more than 190 Su-30MKIs would be produced in Indian facilities in Nashik, which is the HAL hub for manufacturing Russian-origin aircraft.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby shiv » 01 Mar 2013 21:33

Let's inject some life into this thread..

ta daaaaaaaaa

Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 12 Mar 2013 22:47

India Unveils Ambitious BrahMos Missile Expansion Plan

The BrahMos-A's current weight of 2.55 tons means it will be tested and deployed only on the Su-30MKI. The company's earlier plans to make the weapon available for the Indian navy's Ilyushin Il-38 maritime patrol and anti-submarine aircraft fell through after ground clearance constraints cropped up. Similar plans to deploy it on the navy's Tupolev Tu-142 long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft were also shelved after the Navy said it was not worth the cost of modification, given that the fleet did not have much time left in service.

An officer with the IAF's Pune-based Su-30MKI squadron said, “Heavy modifications have been necessary for such a heavy missile, and initially it didn't seem to make sense to deploy a single missile. But in simulations, the weapon holds promise. Our test crews look forward to firing the missile and seeing how it does. It's a potent standoff weapon. We've provided BrahMos with several inputs over the years about how the missile needs to perform.”

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 12 Mar 2013 23:34

Austin wrote:India Unveils Ambitious BrahMos Missile Expansion Plan

The BrahMos-A's current weight of 2.55 tons means it will be tested and deployed only on the Su-30MKI. The company's earlier plans to make the weapon available for the Indian navy's Ilyushin Il-38 maritime patrol and anti-submarine aircraft fell through after ground clearance constraints cropped up. Similar plans to deploy it on the navy's Tupolev Tu-142 long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft were also shelved after the Navy said it was not worth the cost of modification, given that the fleet did not have much time left in service.

An officer with the IAF's Pune-based Su-30MKI squadron said, “Heavy modifications have been necessary for such a heavy missile, and initially it didn't seem to make sense to deploy a single missile. But in simulations, the weapon holds promise. Our test crews look forward to firing the missile and seeing how it does. It's a potent standoff weapon. We've provided BrahMos with several inputs over the years about how the missile needs to perform.”


Lets also quote the major reason for the delays:

The BrahMos JV has had trouble obtaining engineering help from the Sukhoi Design Bureau to modify the Su-30MKI airframe to deploy the BrahMos. Sources say it was Sukhoi's reluctance that forced BrahMos and HAL to conduct the modification virtually by themselves, though Sukhoi may have assisted in 2011.


Assistance arrives in 2011 when the Indo-Russian "joint" venture Brahmos has been working on the missile for eight years. :evil:

In the works for at least eight years, the BrahMos-A has been integrated onto a specially constructed reinforced belly hardpoint of a modified Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.-built Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, says BrahMos CEO A. Sivathanu Pillai.


And this was one of your earlier posts:

Austin wrote:IAF is right in saying customer is the king , you cant argue with that in todays era.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 13 Mar 2013 00:32


Looking forward to the Brahmos-A and Brahmos-S trials soon.
Captive trials with a full mock-up missile will be conducted in the next two months, with a first test-firing off the east coast of India in early 2014.

Significantly, the company has also revealed that it will conduct the first test of its underwater launched variant “very shortly,” possibly before the end of March. Once proven, the weapon designated BrahMos-S ...


I am also very very interested in the version for the Mig-29 and the Rafale.
Work is also underway on a modified lighter and smaller-diameter version of the BrahMos for deployment on the Indian navy's MiG-29K and, potentially, the Dassault Rafale ...


And then I am waiting for more information on this baby.
Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Misraji » 13 Mar 2013 01:27

PratikDas wrote:Assistance arrives in 2011 when the Indo-Russian "joint" venture Brahmos has been working on the missile for eight years. :evil:

In the works for at least eight years, the BrahMos-A has been integrated onto a specially constructed reinforced belly hardpoint of a modified Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.-built Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, says BrahMos CEO A. Sivathanu Pillai.


And this was one of your earlier posts:

Austin wrote:IAF is right in saying customer is the king , you cant argue with that in todays era.

Good post, Pratik Saar.
Nobody kills their own cash-cow by supplying the latest-gen technology on time.
The increasing number of such incidents clearly shows that there is a trend.

Sigh. What will happen when PAKFA comes into service!!!
We have just paid the Russians to squeeze our b@lls for the next 40 years.

--Ashish

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 13 Mar 2013 05:42

Sigh. What will happen when PAKFA comes into service!!!


I do not have the same concern:

FGFA: India is signing on in increments. Phase I is all is paid for and that is even not completed. India can disengage any time – although I do not see that happening. My feel is that India has made a list of what she wants, knowing she cannot get everything she wants. A lesson learned from the MKI experience?

MTA: Same as the FGFA. Again they have not signed up for a lot.

Other: I see a slow but sure separation, for good or bad, between the two. There is a Russian tilt towards China (one going into orbit around the other?). I think this tilt will be amplified ven more if India were to buy more C-17, reduce the number of FGFAs even further and then turn around and get the AMCA up and about.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Mar 2013 08:48

PratikDas wrote:The BrahMos JV has had trouble obtaining engineering help from the Sukhoi Design Bureau to modify the Su-30MKI airframe to deploy the BrahMos. Sources say it was Sukhoi's reluctance that forced BrahMos and HAL to conduct the modification virtually by themselves, though Sukhoi may have assisted in 2011.

Assistance arrives in 2011 when the Indo-Russian "joint" venture Brahmos has been working on the missile for eight years. :evil:


Most of the delays on Brahmos integration with MKI is because they werent sure if they wanted to go with 3 Brahmos configuration , 2 Under Each wing and 1 under belly that was widely advertised till lately or just one under the belly , Finally Sukhoi did some structural assesment and found out that carrying 3 Brahmos would need major structural changes in the wing strengthening it something not possible with existing MKI hence they then opted for underbelly configuration that needed was less of hassel compared to tweaking with wings and which may impact flight performance.

Finally but not the least integrating Brahmos with MKI was not a major priority compared to inducting in Land Forces in different variant or Naval forces but finally we are over the hill.

Austin wrote:IAF is right in saying customer is the king , you cant argue with that in todays era.


Isnt what the IAF officer said in public during AeroIndia while ripping off HAL and R&D organisation in public during AeroIndia ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 13 Mar 2013 11:02

So the billions spent on Su-30 don't make IAF a Sukhoi customer? Doesn't Sukhoi feel the need to treat IAF with expediency since IAF is a customer?

Why did Sukhoi "finally" do some structural assessment? It took the Sukhoi scientists that long to conclude that a structural assessment might be necessary for adding a 2+ ton Russian joint venture missile? Or did it take that long for Sukhoi to perform the assessment?

Even if India was considering adding 3 Brahmos missiles as plan A. Are you telling me it would've taken 6 years to do an assessment for 2 alternatives, plan A and plan B with the single under-slung missile ?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Mar 2013 11:06

The information i shared is something i got from HAL during AeroIndia , if you need any info then you ask HAL or Sukhoi to share with you may be they can answer all your query.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 13 Mar 2013 11:07

Cop out

All sales, no support [until another billion is forthcoming]. I believe HAL was being accused of the same, just that HAL doesn't get the billion.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Austin » 15 Mar 2013 12:58

UMPO deliver India's first 10 engines AL-31FP by end of March

Moscow. March 14. Airports - JSC "Ufa Engine Industrial Association" (UMPO) will supply India's first batch of AL-31FP from 10 sets to the end of March 2013, said the company.

Option to buy 920 AL-31PF was granted India in 2000, under the terms of the general contract for the organization of licensed production of Su-30MKI. The contract for the implementation of the option was signed by the "Rosoboronexport" in October 2012. Deliveries on it will last 10 years.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 25 Mar 2013 03:24

Page 17 (of pdf) :: TO SEE FIRST MEANS TO WIN

A further IAF Su-30MKI-intended Bars upgrade programme has been under discussion for several years now. As is known, a decision has been made in principle a long time ago, but the contract has not been signed yet. Initially, the Bars is supposed to be refined while retaining its current array, with the improvements to include extended range, higher resolution and the ability to support the use of advanced weapons. Then, the Bars’s array is to be replaced with an AESA. Obviously, it makes sense to do it after the AESA radar for the Perspective Multirole Fighter is tested so that to build on the expertise gained from the efforts.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Sancho » 25 Mar 2013 05:29

Austin wrote:UMPO deliver India's first 10 engines AL-31FP by end of March

Moscow. March 14. Airports - JSC "Ufa Engine Industrial Association" (UMPO) will supply India's first batch of AL-31FP from 10 sets to the end of March 2013, said the company.

Option to buy 920 AL-31PF was granted India in 2000, under the terms of the general contract for the organization of licensed production of Su-30MKI. The contract for the implementation of the option was signed by the "Rosoboronexport" in October 2012. Deliveries on it will last 10 years.


For which fighters these are these engines meant for? The additional 42, or for the upgrades that are coming? And this rules out the speculations about 117S engines for the upgraded MKIs right, but are there any reliable infos about upgrades to this engines?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 26 Mar 2013 09:18

Su-30MKI was not the last in the Su-30 series line of fighters.
KnAAPO has succeeded in developing a new two-seat multi-role version of the Flanker - the Su-35UB on its own. The aircraft was designed to combine the Su-37′s strong points with the best features of both the Su-30MKI & the MKK. Of all Su-30 versions developed, the Su-35UB has the most sophisticated avionics suite. It is equipped with an N-011M fire control radar compatible with the entire range of AAMs, ASMs & bombs.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 28 Mar 2013 05:53

^^^so the bear took our investment and worked on their own plane. What else is new.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Mar 2013 10:45

I think thats true of all commercial activity. we did not fund their entire su27 family and acquire some exclusive lock on the product line.

the vendor of toilet paper/pan masala will use running cash flow to fund r&d into the next gen toilet paper/pan masala also.

key thing is - develop your own from scratch if you want total control and no leakage to enemies. the chinese would know our kilos inside out except the sonar because they operate the more advanced 636 version. klub and shtil and top plate radar is also well known to cheen. they dont have the same easy insight on akash, rajendra, shourya, sagarika etc.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby Indranil » 12 Apr 2013 22:36

From HAL-Connect- Issue 65

Aircraft Manufacturing Division has produced 134 out of total 222 Su-30MKI aircraft supply orders. Supplies of remaining 88 aircraft are expected to extend up to 2019-20, which is being planned to be preponed by two years. The future product for AMD, namely Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is on drawing board and production is expected to commence from 2019-20.


Just as an aside: there is no word called preponed.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby svinayak » 12 Apr 2013 22:55

indranilroy wrote:
Just as an aside: there is no word called preponed.

Indian english is evolving and is adding new words to the vocabulary. You may find this word in the Webster's next year

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Postby SaiK » 14 Jun 2013 21:40

Taking the Rafale vs MKI RCS discussion out of LCA dhaaga, I doubt any data that IAF would share.. But on google comparisons search, the Su-35 BM is supposed to match EF2K on the RCS. Now, we need to only compare how much more or less MKI matches. Please there are versions planned for MKI upgrade to match 35BM, if I am right, especially with skins provided from LCA technologies.


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