Wiki data on Gujarat GDP is not accurate. Per capita income for 2011-2012 was reported as ~Rs. 90,000, and GSDP as ~ Rs. 612,000 just last week. Per capita income grew by 13% and nominal GDP growth was ~19%.Theo_Fidel wrote:BTW before someone goes mental on me for saying Kerala, oh apavithra jeevan,has a higher per capita, this is where I got the data from before I got over my laziness and looked at GOI data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... tes_by_GDP
Instead of wringing your hands, why don't you say what he could or should do about it ? Since you point out what he's not doing, I assume you also know answers to such issues that he (or any other leader) doesn't ?Theo_Fidel wrote:WRT your social crusader comment, I'm at a loss for words. How can any one look at at a sex ration 918 and declining and say this is a matter for people to decide. I don't think NM has said that has he? He very much has tried to deal with the skewed ratio with some positive and some negative results. He must ask himself why that is so. What he is observing is a crime and he must respond that way. What is the point of having a government otherwise.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... dva-patels
"I hail from north Gujarat and Umiya Mata's land Unjha is a pilgrimage place for us. But, I have to tell this bitter truth to Kadva Patels that Unjha taluka has lowest sex ratio. This sex ratio is not a natural, but is man-made. We have taken a wrong path and this is a result of it,'' Modi said.
"I am saying this as I am sure that they (Kadva Patels) will come out with a strong commitment to resolve this issue of skewed sex ratio," he added.
Lets not waste pages of analysis based on wrong data. As per official statistics, Gujarat per capita GDP is higher than TN or Kerala. Read this piece by an actual economist of repute, not one of those JNU 'ding dongs': The Gujarat miracle: No denying the economic advances the state has made under Narendra ModiTheo_Fidel wrote:BTW before someone goes mental on me for saying Kerala, oh apavithra jeevan,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In ... tes_by_GDP
Also, Theo - who would you prefer as PM candidate if not Modi ? {deleted}The critics' case is particularly weak in education. Gujarat added 10 percentage points to the literacy rate during 2001-11, more than any other comparator state. At 79.3%, the literacy rate now stands one percentage point behind Tamil Nadu and three percentage points behind Maharashtra. Indeed, once we take into account the low literacy level of Gujarat at Independence, its progress looks more impressive than that of even Kerala.
Straight questions:Theo_Fidel wrote:WRT your social crusader comment, I'm at a loss for words. How can any one look at at a sex ration 918 and declining and say this is a matter for people to decide. I don't think NM has said that has he? He very much has tried to deal with the skewed ratio with some positive and some negative results. He must ask himself why that is so. What he is observing is a crime and he must respond that way. What is the point of having a government otherwise.
Udhai kumar of PMANE.Arjun wrote:Also, Theo - who would you prefer as PM candidate if not Modi ? {deleted}
While one can selectively poke holes in nearly every success story, taken as a whole, it is difficult to remain unimpressed by what Gujarat has achieved. I would be only too happy if its economic success spread next door to my home state, Rajasthan.
No matter disha, saar.disha wrote:Straight questions:Theo_Fidel wrote:WRT your social crusader comment, I'm at a loss for words. How can any one look at at a sex ration 918 and declining and say this is a matter for people to decide. I don't think NM has said that has he? He very much has tried to deal with the skewed ratio with some positive and some negative results. He must ask himself why that is so. What he is observing is a crime and he must respond that way. What is the point of having a government otherwise.
1. Have you been to Gujarat? Have you seen the ground reality? If not should you not be circumspect before throwing stones?
2. Have you been to Surat? Ahmedabad? Vadodra? Rajkot? Bhavnagar? Junagadh? Note- Ahmedabad is the largest city - and unlike Maharashtra which has Mumbai.
Surat has one of the worst sex ratio in Gujarat - 788. I will tell you why - Its population went from 4.2Lacs to 6Lacs from 2001 to 2011. Can you think of why? I will tell you, @15000 people from Guntur district are employed in the textile industry itself., indicating massive influx of males outside of the state. So when you harp on the sex ratio, you conveniently forget this facts (or willfully ignore it) to aggrandize yourself. Also it takes a while to improve sex ratio unless of course Modi waves his wand and all newborns are girl child immaculately conceived.
Regarding crime rate, including crime against women and children (including hindu terrorists)., Gujarat has one of the lowest crime rate in the country.
Now your favourite, HDI. Do not you realize that Gujarat is surrounded by Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra - Two of the 3 States in the list are considered part of BIMARU. (If you do not know the full form of BIMARU - then shame on you ...)., the point is HDI of Gujarat and growth in HDI should be compared with the other two states rather than distant Kerala. Why with Rajasthan you argue? Because, Kutch the largest province of Gujarat is like Rajasthan. And why Madhya Pradesh? Because South Gujarat (Dangs) is like Madhya Pradesh (Narmada is a common river from MP to Gujarat).
So before you say anything about HDI, compare it with Rajasthan (currently a ConGraze ruled state) and MP (on a growth trajectory) first.
And lastly about education and skill development. Unlike you are Gastapo Gosh or Murkha Butt, you must have heard (and seen) NM mention in the SRCC speech about training the police and also about other skill and scale. It takes time like all immaculate conceptions.
In the end, please read this article: http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283393. This is from the same commie rag where Arundhoti Roy had to apologize for spreading lies about the Gujarat riots.
Excellent point. Will keep that in mind.Now your favourite, HDI. Do not you realize that Gujarat is surrounded by Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra - Two of the 3 States in the list are considered part of BIMARU. (If you do not know the full form of BIMARU - then shame on you ...)., the point is HDI of Gujarat and growth in HDI should be compared with the other two states rather than distant Kerala. Why with Rajasthan you argue? Because, Kutch the largest province of Gujarat is like Rajasthan. And why Madhya Pradesh? Because South Gujarat (Dangs) is like Madhya Pradesh (Narmada is a common river from MP to Gujarat).
Thanks for pointing it., that is something Modi can never be able to address - inspite of his best intentions - all Gujjus are raised on Amul Shrikhand and puri-undhiyu ... tasty but fatty and if you interact with Gujjus (particularly from Surat)., they will happily give away NM but not the food ...chetak wrote: As long as this MALNUTRITION is there, nothing else matters.
When you have got your head stuck up your arse like suzannah roy, your outlook is often limited and pointedly uni directional.
He did not have a economic record at the second round. IIRC the first stint was only a year or so before he had to go back to the polls. That is why I tend to discount the first 2.Suraj wrote:Why has he been elected by MGR-like margins again and again ? Why are the first two elections 'different' ? The first one, maybe - just because he was relatively unproven. But the second ? The only polarising angle I recall is Sonia Gandhi calling him the 'merchant of death'. If anything, it is MGR whose wins should be considered 'special', since he was the original movie star/political demigod of TN politics. Further, he too only did one full term - he was dismissed once and died during his third administration.
The basis of your arguments against Modi is that of the sin of omission on the topics you deem important. What others have to say is that he is very good at delivering at what he takes up. You massively discount this while going on your harangue about what he hasn't done. One of the primary issues with the Indian system is the gulf between what is promised and what is delivered, and the lack of accountability to have it delivered. The political narrative is such that in every election a different set of issues can be peddled to polarize the population into enough votes. The ability of the state to deliver services and facilities is essentially non-existent, compared to the neighbour to the north.
Selective munging of data. Why not see that NM did not make it worse! The improvement trajectory continues.Theo_Fidel wrote:He did not have a economic record at the second round. IIRC the first stint was only a year or so before he had to go back to the polls. That is why I tend to discount the first 2.
One draconian measure which I know and seen is Sanjay Gandhi's draconian measure. Just because of such a draconian measure, India is still struggling with lowering the TFR in BIMARU.WRT to Modi, he is smart enough to know what needs to be done. There are many states that are dealing with the sex ratio decline problem that have resorted to increasingly draconian measures and slowly have turned it around. I don't wish to speculate why he will not take those measures.
BTW, gutka satchet is banned in Gujarat now., so you may as well say Modi cannot chew gutka paan and hence is unfit for PM.... I would not be surprised if NM pulls it off...
Yes, one hopes this happens. What has really happened is this....mahadevbhu wrote:this is how sex ratio becomes better;
1. Women start working. Womens revolution in work . They start going out of the house .
2. Women fetuses reduce getting aborted by parents who realize that ;
a. their daughters will take care of them in their old age AND
b. their daughters are economically empowered enough to do so.
I can agree with most of this. Though increasingly education in India is for services not Industry alone. There is a 40% chunk of India that gets this. But if you go to the wild of Chattisgarh you will come away very disappointed in the lack of interest in a rigorous education.Sri wrote:States have to create surplus revenue to invest in social schemes. This surplus comes from economic activity. The schemes themselves need to be self sustaining with clear direction on what they will achieve and from where the mullah will come from. If we need to really understand NM we have to understand how these various schemes have performed over the years. It is very impressive what he did with overall education level in Gujrat. Is it the best in the country? Nope they are not.
In Gujrat and also in many parts of India, investment in industry and infrastructure helps people in establishing the link. To say that investment in industry is at the cost of social upliftment is an oxymoron. When people see what education can do for them, they will study. Industry is the impetus for that.
Theo_Fidel wrote:Medieval Spain as well springs to mind....
So now you are shifting the goal post again by calling for "Social Reform necessiated by the CM". Maybe you did not read the article about Unjha and the message to the Patidar Kadva Patel Samaj (society) and then their vow at the temple.Theo_Fidel wrote:Lack of social reform + money is a horrible combination.
Saudi and Spain apart, Theo ji.....India is a moderate, conservative, heirarchial country with strong respect for education and far less fundamentalist religions than either Saudi or Spain (catholicism).Singha wrote:>> Lack of social reform + money is a horrible combination.
one extreme is saudi arabia
Yes Japan & SoKo are good models. With the obvious caveats on monoculture and avoiding the kamikaze phase. We will have to see if India can pull of growth with out proper social restructuring. As I said before we should not get too comfortable, there is a long ways to go yet.mahadevbhu wrote:So.....Theoji, if you want to look at a role model, and , maybe even a place where we will reach in the future, it is, our fellow buddhist dharmic country, Japan. That is our future, albeit a little more, risque, as regards male-female relationships.
So now you are shifting the goal post again by calling for "Social Reform necessiated by the CM". Maybe you did not read the article about Unjha and the message to the Patidar Kadva Patel Samaj (society) and then their vow at the temple.
If that is not an attempt at "social reform" what is? Spreading lies like Arundotty Roy or Gastapo Gosh? Ah, forgot - Udhai Kumar.
Agree with you. But Theo also needs to take an explicit political stance as to the person / party he would support for PMship and how his choice follows from his own values. The good part is we know the 3 values he assigns importance to. All we need is the candidate or party he would vote for based on these values.mahadevbhu wrote: If theo fidel cannot express a point of view which is at an angle to the main trend that is sweeping a topic, then there is scarce differnce between BRF and some cult with its own perverted meme.
Its kind of interesting to see someone post something just a little bit at an angle, and have folks then expressing that the disagreer is some sort of freak.
Pretty much everything he said has been shown to be wrong, yet he comes back after a while and repeats the same things, and this is on multiple topics.mahadevbhu wrote:^^^ would be good if people answer the post, point by point, objectively rather than ganging up on any one poster.
I would think that, under normal conditions, such a poster would find fewer replies addressed to his posts.Sanku wrote: Pretty much everything he said has been shown to be wrong, yet he comes back after a while and repeats the same things, and this is on multiple topics.
Brilliantly put.devesh wrote:the real point of pain is that someone who is assertive and un-apologizing about his Hindu roots has managed to climb the ladder by purely his own merits, while actually being continuously hampered and obstructed by the ruling Secular regime. this is the real pain. all else is carefully constructed P-sec/minority maya.
You hit the nail. Instead of posting relevant stuff with surveys and political moves, we are wasting our time. He is just opposing NaMo in circles and pretending to be very detailed. Just ignore.Muppalla wrote:As long as there are hurdles to complete and crass westernization, prostitutization and Christianization there will always be questions about the leadership and achievements. The above three are called as nutrition(opposite of malnutrition), social upliftment and secularism. We have become utterly foolish to put arguments in multiple pages of multiple threads.
Look at the attitude of these people. They want opportunities not freebies. That in essence is Modi's achievement. He changed the topic of discussion from "Where is my free check or house or free loan or free electricity" to How can I make more business or get more opportunity?Might prosperity help heal the wounds? In Juhapura, a district on the outskirts of Ahmedabad dominated by the Muslim minority, a young mason grows angry when asked if he feels lucky to make 250-300 rupees a day ($6-7), saying he only gets work for 15 days a month. Others are more content. A bearded man down the road says his party-decoration business is booming. Behind the till of a shop selling top-ups for mobile phones and stationery for the nearby school, a man in a skull cap says life has undoubtedly improved, although his 82-year-old father, sitting in a deckchair, complains that everything went to the dogs when the British left.
Gujarat could be a vision of India's future, in which manufacturing flourishes, soaking up rural labour. Its economy is expected to grow by double digits, even as India's rate slows to 7-8% this year.
Oh My MY! Now you can't even take movies about Gujarat unless you demonize Modiji. This is what we have come. The takleef idBut something about a film with three never heard of actors, a hardly-there actress and no floor burning item song, must have caught the imagination of the masses for it to gross Rs 17 crores in two days and run to full houses on weekdays. Is it the promise of a Dil Chahta Hai set in Gujarat? Is it the promised break from 40-year-olds trying to play twenty-somethings on screen? Or is it because anything Gujarat right now is hot property?
Snigdha Poonam points out in New York Times India Ink: “In turning his decidedly political book into a feel-good Bollywood spectacle, Mr Bhagat has, on the face of it, done nothing less than rewrite history in favor of Gujarat’s chief minister, Narendra Modi of the BJP, who has been dogged by questions over his role in the 2002 riots.”
But to understand the true premise of “Kai Po Che,” audiences may want to note what Mr. Bhagat changed or omitted from his novel as he wrote the screenplay with the director.
the film deals with the Gujarat riots of 2002, the first mainstream movie to do so in the 11 years since deadly clashes broke out between Muslims and Hindus across the state following a sudden fire in a train making a stop at the Godhra station that killed 58 Hindu pilgrims.
In turning his decidedly political book into a feel-good Bollywood spectacle, Mr. Bhagat has, on the face of it, done nothing less than rewrite history in favor of Gujarat’s chief minister, Narendra Modi of the B.J.P
In an interview with The Indian Express, he explained further: “Nobody can deny what has happened in Gujarat. Why and how has it happened that really is an opinion. And that the film doesn’t have.”
He also said, in the same interview, that neutrality was his biggest “trend,” even though his recent sharp words for public figures like the author Salman Rushdie and the Infosys co-founder Narayana Murthy seem to indicate the opposite.
“It’s a writer’s job to speak and give opinions, and I’m somewhat popular and unlike other popular people like cricketers and actors, who don’t speak on issues,” he had said in a February 2012 interview with The Telegraph in India about statements in which he accused Mr. Rushdie of being a desperate attention-seeker and Mr. Murthy of running a body shop.
Over the last year or so, Mr. Bhagat has tried, painstakingly, to be seen as respectful of Mr. Modi, whose rise from the ashes of 2002 has seemed inexorable. From praising Mr. Modi’s vision for development to acknowledging the emotional pull he exerts on many middle-class Indians, Mr. Bhagat has repeatedly endorsed the proudly nationalist chief minister in public.
Indeed, Mr. Modi publicly cautioned him, tongue in cheek, that rooting for him could cost the author the love of Indian liberals – well aware, of course, that Mr. Bhagat didn’t have that to begin with, and thus cementing their common-cause camaraderie.
Now let all the Fiberals blame it on Chetan if Modi becomes PM. The kujli in their hearts is really bothering them.These questions remain unanswered. But, let’s not forget that at a time when Mr. Modi, a potential prime ministerial candidate is most desperate for Indians to see beyond the 2002 riots, Mr. Bhagat has allowed, and contributed to, the making and breathless promotion of a guaranteed blockbuster that shows tilak-wearing and sword-waving Hindu mobs wipe out entire Muslim neighborhoods on account of a rumor
Swamyg,SwamyG wrote:Theo Saar next round of questions, all churn good for us onlee. Gujarat like India is a large place, so there is always room for improvement. So you highlight 3 key areas for focus, are these areas your community is concerned about? Or are those your personal views?
The dhaaga is about ideas, so assuming he wins and has become the PM, what policies do you want him to enact on those 3 items? You do not have to be precise, after all these are giant subjects and you probably can write pages. So let us focus on labor first...what do you like him to do.
No sir, my personal view is that sometimes you have to defeat them at all levels. Point out how hollow they sound and how immoral they themselves are. Given that we can start posting relevant news/surveys etc again.muraliravi wrote:You hit the nail. Instead of posting relevant stuff with surveys and political moves, we are wasting our time. He is just opposing NaMo in circles and pretending to be very detailed. Just ignore.
C'mon say it - let us hear more of it ...Theo_Fidel wrote:Swamyg,SwamyG wrote:...The dhaaga is about ideas, so assuming he wins and has become the PM, what policies do you want him to enact on those ...
That is probably OT on this thread.We can continue elsewhere but I think you know my views. Mostly westernized EJ macaulayite etc
^ That is from the above article.According to Ajitha, a womens rights campaigner and former Naxalite, the societal set up and its family-oriented attitude is the biggest hurdle for women in Kerala.
In fact, Gujarat has one of the best women labour participation across all sectors (remember for the industries, it also has immigration from Bihar, Raj, AP, MP, TN and Nepal - you will find Nepali restaurants in Vadodra - go figure)., and definitely lot better than Kerala. So in short, the Gujarat model of growth and development is better than the Kerala model.As we find from our analysis, limiting of options had been more severe for the women. Remarkable changes in the
cropping pattern had displaced large volume of the women workforce from agriculture, especially in the
rural areas, and the primary sector is no longer the most significant channel of employment.
Manufacturing industries, both at the household level as well as other than it, was also largely stagnant.
Economic activity among women has only increased in the tertiary sector. These had further led to the
intensification of unemployment in the state, more so among the educated females. Large-scale
emigration and outmigration from the state brought about prosperity to a certain extent, but has failed to
provide tenable solution to the problem of unemployment. Convergence of these factors has led to a
declining trend in work force participation among females, besides widening the gender gap in
employment during the last decade.
No sir. If repeating lies, changing goal posts, offering advice bordering on illegality to follow a particular deranged line of thought is not cult'ish or perverted - then tell us what is.mahadevbhu wrote:...If theo fidel cannot express a point of view which is at an angle to the main trend that is sweeping a topic, then there is scarce differnce between BRF and some cult with its own perverted meme. ...
Do you agree Mahadevbhu with the above? If not, can you put your arguments on the table? And try to back them up?Muppalla wrote: As long as there are hurdles to complete and crass westernization, prostitutization and Christianization there will always be questions about the leadership and achievements. The above three are called as nutrition(opposite of malnutrition), social upliftment and secularism.