Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Sanku
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

devesh wrote: Sanku ji,

not sure if the Lefties in the "intellectual"/"academic" dens were really dealt with by Vajpayee. Their existence on the Central doll needs to end. every connection they have with "Central Power" needs to be cut. I am saying that there should be total ostracizing of them, by the Government of India. I don't think anybody tried to do that yet. INC, of course, doesn't want that. but BJP should try to do it, just to cut down the power of these traitors in India, and outside.

devesh-ji, I fully agree with the goal, and as you know, I am one of the proponents of the dynasty meeting the same ends as that of Nands. However some things will have to be done slowly, and in fact were being done by ABV govt.

That included choice of heads of organizations like NCERT, ASI etc. Now a complete "purge" is not a option in India context (neither do I want a murder on the scale of the great leap forward or McCarthyism in India) -- this would mean that a JNU prof, who is 45 (say) still has 15 years of venom.

However these types can be forced to keep their heads down if BJP is in power.

What this means is that BJP needs 10-15 years before it can start seeing a change in India. It took chacha-jan 15 years to ra** India to the level that only Maculalities were allowed to be in positions of power, basically a anti Nehru 15 years is what I want.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

This article supports some of my thoughts about 2014 elections...

Why the pundits get it wrong on Modi repeatedly
1. Opposition within the party:
Everyone predicted that Modi had too many detractors inside the BJP to be made numero uno. In fact, they had forecast huge factional infighting between pro- and anti-Modi factions. But politicians are smarter than columnists: they saw the writing on the wall when they observed how ordinary BJP workers were responding to Modi. Which is why once Modi won in Gujarat, they saw they had a choice: either align with a rising power or be consigned to the sidelines

2. Secular Alliances:
making new allies is the result not of their own biases, but electoral numbers. Everyone, from Chandrababu Naidu to Naveen Patnaik to Mamata Banerjee to Nitish Kumar, has aligned with the BJP when it had the numbers under Vajpayee. They did so even when they knew that LK Advani held the keys to the party and was one of the key players in the Ram Janmabhoomi movement. Nitish Kumar, despite his alleged antipathy to Modi, aligns with another Modi – Sushil Modi – in his home state. He is even said to be very close to Advani, despite the latter’s Babri connection. He surely knows that the BJP partnership has worked and it does not make sense to break it without good reason.

3. Minority votes will go to INC:
The voting patterns of Muslims in Gujarat in December show that many have now come to accept Modi as a reality and are moving towards accommodation and compromise. This might not suit the Congress or some of its favoured columnists who have built a career around Modi-bashing, but the world has moved on.

Consider what former Darul Uloom Deoband Ghulam Muhammad Vastanvi said yesterday on Modi. “If our country makes him (Modi) Prime Minister, there is no reason for us to have any objection (Agar apna mulk unko PM banata hai to hamari taraf se koi inkaar to ho hi nahi sakta).”

4. Modi is uncompromising and dictatorial:
The other myth that 2014 could bust is the one which holds that Modi is unelectable on a national scale due to his alleged inability to compromise. The truth is Modi may not be liked by his detractors, but he has not shown himself unwilling to do deals with his critics. This is why his partnership with Rajnath Singh – they parted on bad terms when Singh was BJP chief till 2009 – is showing signs of maturing.

5. Modi/BJP cannot achieve simple majority on its own:{People thought I was dreaming}
As MJ Akbar wrote in a recent Times of India column: “Despite the multiple identities of an Indian electorate, voters are no longer disparate. They now vote decisively. Whoever wins, does so by a comfortable distance.”

This is the meaning of the votes in the north-east, Tripura, Gujarat, Bengal, Uttar Pradesh and Tamil Nadu last year and this year.
Last edited by RamaY on 05 Mar 2013 03:36, edited 1 time in total.
RamaY
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1419718

Very good perspective Atriji. As I mentioned earlier

NM's mandate is limited to good governance. This includes -
1. Economic progress to all
2. Absolute implementation of Rule of Law
3. Destruction of Congress system
4. Development of Civic/Industrial Infra
5. Strengthen MIC
6. Equip IA completely
7. Establish Brand Bharat/India

This shall bring all Bharatiyas together under one umbrella.

The other Hindu projects should be owned and led by other RSS leaders and organizations.
8. Construction of Ram, Krishna, Shiva, Saraswati temples
9. Hindu Nationalism

It is important to note that it took ~20 years for BJP to come to power. It could hardly stay in power for 5 years before the old networks toppled it.

The larger Hindu projects take 50-100 years. But they will come to fruition nevertheless.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Kejriwal to replace Modi at Wharton event. Rubbish.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

RoyG wrote:Kejriwal to replace Modi at Wharton event. Rubbish.
It seems Modi did not prove himself by dancing nanga on Red Fort. That is why Kejriwal replaces Modi.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Dumped, Modi may get another Wharton platform to go global
A WIEF organiser says they will give the Gujarat CM a more appropriate but less publicised forum
Despite withdrawing the invitation to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi to deliver a keynote address at the Wharton India Economic Forum (WIEF) later this month, the organisers of the event are determined to arrange another platform for him to address students at the prestigious American business school. One of the organisers of WIEF said in an interview they would look for a "more appropriate" but less publicised forum, like the leadership lecture series at Wharton.

WIEF is an annual student-organised event hosted by the Wharton School, which is part of the University of Pennsylvania.

Modi had been scheduled to speak at this year's WIEF via live video conference, before the organisers announced yesterday that his speech had been cancelled in the light of the potentially "polarising reactions from sub­segments of the alumni base, student body and our supporters", if he spoke at the Forum. The statement also said the organisers wished to avoid at all costs placing Modi in "a compromising position". An earlier announcement unveiling Modi as a keynote speaker at the conference to be held in Philadelphia on March 23 had prompted opposition from various quarters and a petition urging the organisers to revoke the invitation.

However, contrary to media reports, no students or faculty members from Wharton had signed the petition, said a member of WIEF's organising team, who did not want to be named. "None of the Wharton Indians actually opposed this," said the student, who added, "Gathering 150 signatures is not that big a deal. We can gather a 300-signature petition for support in a day. We chose not to play that game."

While the organising team reiterated yesterday that "the student organising body was extremely impressed with Modi's credentials, governance ideologies, and leadership", the petitioners had slammed the choice, declaring, "We find it astonishing that any academic and student body at the University of Pennsylvania can endorse ideas about economic development that are based on the systematic oppression of minority populations, whether in India or elsewhere," and pledged to protest Modi's appearance.

While there was no formal directive from the university to cancel Modi's speech, "they did suggest that it would be best if he didn't speak", said the organising team member. The organiser acknowledged in the interview that India was an important country for the University of Pennsylvania. "They balance a lot of delicate relationships there and I imagine if we had pushed forward some of them would have been damaged," said the student.

A spokesman for Wharton declined to comment on the controversy, stating: "The student conference to which you refer to is independent of the School". However, the organisers have faced a backlash after cancelling Modi's speech as well. "Once we did the statement this morning, we've gotten so much hate mail on this, that you guys should not cave under pressure, what happened to free speech and things like that. There's an equal, if not bigger supporter base for him," said the student.

A replacement for Modi has not been announced, although the organisers' statement promised it would be "a very prominent Indian leader". Other keynote speakers at this year's WIEF include Montek Singh Ahluwalia, deputy chairman of the Planning Commission, and Milind Deora, minister of state for information technology and communications. As for the snubbed speaker, he had readily accepted the invitation to speak, but also understood the organisers' predicament, said the student, who had been involved in conveying the decision to Modi's office: "This scenario is not new to them."
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

He should wait for the 2014 elections and not get into this monkey business.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

yup wharton can come calling if he can fulfill vision 2020 for desh. however he can address a remote session right?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Modi's saga is same. Without a single penny being spent, he gets all the focus. He is probably enjoing the paisa-vasool momments. Let the Warts keep discussing Modi and let the Indian media discuss the same. As long as this discussion is happening in Hindi TV media as well that is good for his campaign.


Agar meeting me baat kiya tho bhi internet clog ho jaata hai. Agar nahi.n kiya tho bhi unke bhare mae discussion chalta hai. I don't think I have ever seen a leader who is always on camera or chatteratti 24/7. Good for him and his managers.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

Gautam Sen from London:

NM and India's Future
Narendra Modi & India’s future
The time for soft options is over.
By Gautam Sen (4 March 2013)
London: Narendra Modi is evidently a very dangerous man, so dangerous that some within the nationalist fold incited the Shiv Sena to identify Sushma Swaraj as their preferred candidate for nomination as the Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime-ministerial candidate. The somewhat jaded K.Govindacharya pointedly added his two pennies worth against Modi, no doubt a manoeuvre he hoped might restore his rightful place within the Sangha fold! Indeed there are grounds for suspecting that even the redoubtable Nitish Kumar received not dissimilar encouragement to undermine Narendra Modi by threatening support for Sonia Gandhi’s preposterous caravan that is proving so utterly disastrous for India. Indeed, it is significant that one of the candidates they all wish to choose was smilingly endorsed by Digvijay Singh, that great patriot, preoccupied with the threat of global saffron terror, who refers to jihadi terrorists with the respectful suffix ‘ji’. So what if they have copious Indian blood on their hands; this is Indian secularism in action. No doubt Voltaire and those great luminaries of the Enlightenment and secularism would have approved.

Without Narendra Modi, the BJP is guaranteed defeat and India the manifest calamity of a Parliament utterly divided among the most venal politicians anyone could inflict on it. And the 2014 Lok Sabha elections would be followed, in order to form a government, by an auction for endless opportunities to plunder, of which India has already had a grim foretaste. Is this what the great patriots and part-time cultural nationalists are willing to countenance by opposing Narendra Modi? It is not outlandish to suggest that the vehement campaign from some on his own side to scupper him actually originates from within the Congress. Some of them may have been prodded to oppose Modi because of the devastatingly compromising information of their corruption and related peccadilloes held by the ruling establishment. Narendra Modi himself is apparently rather unblemished and has managed to survive the most sustained calumny experienced by any Indian politician since independence. But all the fabrications and deceit, which made even hardened sceptics of Indian media shenanigans occasionally waver, failed, with the Supreme Court and SIT dismissing them unambiguously.

This is the fateful moment when the future of India will be decided and it appears to hinge on the solitary issue of whether or not Narendra Modi leads as the Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime-ministerial candidate in 2014. The party’s credibility is at a nadir despite some remarkable performances by regional BJP governments, most notably Chattisgarh’s Raman Singh and Shivraj Singh Chauhan of Madhya Pradesh. The BJP’s internal divisions and failure as the Opposition and, worse still, apparent complicity in the bitter legacy of rule by the UPA, have destroyed the high expectations that brought it to power in 1998 and 1999. Having cynically played the Ayodhya card, which is all it was for most of the leadership, who privately regard it as incredibly droll, they are in danger of becoming a proverbial busted flush. In fact, they are poised to end up with significantly fewer than 100 seats in 2014. Narendra Modi could change all that. He brings with him an enviable track record of success that all the ludicrous lies from the Congress camp, about Gujarat’s economic and social indices during his time, cannot repudiate. The nomination of Narendra Modi will instantly expunge many of the post-Ayodhya sins of duplicity and betrayal, the deep horror at the bankrupt UPA, and its abominable real and faux leaders. He will also galvanize urban India, the natural constituency of a nationalist party that the BJP miraculously all but managed to annihilate. With Narendra Modi, the BJP and its allies will have a fighting chance of becoming the single largest party by a reasonable margin, and indeed achieve a number that will attract support from the few others that will prove necessary to form a government.

Narendra Modi is going to disappoint the Hindutva camp by concentrating on economic development and good governance. In fact, he will likely practice genuine secularism because he will not be pandering to vote banks. Relations with Pakistan will be corrected where cricket may become a distant memory. Narendra Modi would also need to make the hard choice of intrusive interdictions of terror suspects, the only way to make a serious attempt to curb it. It will offend some sections, but experience everywhere shows that high-grade intelligence-gathering, combined with determined pursuit of potential suspects, are a minimum first step if terror attacks are to be minimized. One may boldly hazard a guess that much of the bureaucracy will rise to the challenge to perform, once the worse of the on-going rot is smartly reined in, since many do in fact wish to deliver. In the somewhat unlikely event that Nitish Kumar really wishes to sell his soul and, with it, India for some additional money for Bihar and act as spoiler, the BJP should walk out of the Bihar coalition government and fight every seat in Bihar to ensure his political oblivion. The moment of truth is here and there are no soft options. The future of India is at stake.



Dr Gautam Sen has taught Political Economy at the London School of Economics.
Would have sworn it was written by Forum members!!!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Narendra Modi's reach

* Business Community - Check
* Urban Voters - Check
* Student Community - Check
* Party Cadre - Check

* Muslim Minority - In-progress

* Govt Employees - TBD
* Women Voters - TBD
* Rural Voters - TBD
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

IMO, he will win over women. He will probably get a sizable chunk of rural and muslims b/c they are suffering despite the handouts. Majority of govt employees will probably vote for congress though.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

^ Govt. Employees - Not likely to vote congress.

What I hear from the ground is that there is lot of support for NM in Govt. Employees. But they are not saying it loud for many reasons...

That is why the 5th point in my post (highlighted in RED) is plausible.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Toorjo Ghosh the hippy leftist on ndtv debate.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... /267239?hp

These debates are unbearable. They stack 5 against 1 or 2 and call it a debate. It just goes to show that they are desperate to keep Modi down.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Bottom-up surge gives Modi power lift
Cadres, fans try to force BJP hand


New Delhi, March 4: The most significant feature of the two-day BJP national council was that for the first time, the voices of the rank and file seemed to have been heard, and heard attentively.

A groundswell from around the country appeared to be trying to force the decision makers’ hands, demanding Narendra Modi lead the BJP in the 2014 elections.

It was the cadre, not the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or the leaders on the dais, who won for Modi his moment in the BJP’s annals. Their numbers were boosted considerably by groups of Modi “diwanes” (fans), who stood outside the venue and shouted slogans for him to be made the prime ministerial candidate each time a leader emerged.

The idea was to drive home the point that independently of the BJP and its parivar, Modi’s following was swelling.

Although no official decision has been taken, the Gujarat chief minister is now clearly the firm favourite to don the shadow Prime Minister’s mantle.

“If we trace the history of our leaders, first came Shyama Prasad Mookerjee and Deen Dayal Upadhyaya. They were followed by L.K. Advani and Atal Bihari Vajpayee. (After that) we were in danger of facing a vacuum,” a party general secretary who wouldn’t be quoted said.

“Modi has filled the gap. The difference is that this time, there is no other person vying for the honours. For the next 10 years or more, hopefully, we will not need to worry.”

In 1995, though, Vajpayee was “foisted” on a shocked BJP, waiting for Advani to be named the candidate for the Prime Minister, because of the Sangh’s exertions. Vajpayee later won over some workers.

Left to themselves, sources said, the current party brass would have put off the leadership decision to another day citing coalition compulsions, secular-communal polemics and the merits of collective leadership. The issue might have been debated over tea and samosas at the BJP headquarters in the presence of a Sangh “observer” before shifting to the Sangh’s sanctum to be settled in secrecy after a bout of intrigues.

The workers would have been handed out a fait accompli and directed to “work” in the elections. It would certainly not have been clinched in a wide-open sports stadium in the presence of over 5,000 stakeholders from across the country
.

Modi’s frontline projection was not achieved in a day. The development bears the imprint of his individualistic style: connect directly with the workers over the heads of the parivar apparatchiks and commanders, milk their trust and goodwill, and convert the reservoirs of support into a chorus of demand.

In other words, present the leaders with a fait accompli.

For the past two years or so, those who followed Modi closely figured out he had made up his mind to win the Gujarat elections and move to Delhi. He worked to shed some of the baggage he had been carrying since 2002 and secure global acceptance and domestic legitimacy.

The results were mixed but to the parivar faithful, he was their man. Each time Nitish Kumar warned of a split with the BJP if Modi was projected for the top job, Modi supporters suggested the party go solo under a “charismatic and credible” leader and win a critical mass of seats to offset the loss of an ally.

The argument was that if the BJP won 180 seats or more on its own, it could pull in the wavering “secular” parties.

Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Ashok Singhal, apparently a Modi convert now, recently confronted Advani at a parivar meeting and asked if “communalism” could be held as a charge against Modi.

He underlined how Advani’s attempt in 2005 to refurbish his “secular” credentials by praising Mohammed Ali Jinnah had fetched no Muslim votes for the BJP.

Singhal was quoted as saying that in both normal and extraordinary circumstances, the “secular” votes would go to the Congress and the BJP must, therefore, tap into its core support. :D

Sources said that what had endeared Modi to the BJP ranks and beyond was that he was the only leader who minced no words while attacking the Nehru-Gandhis.

Many in the BJP feel that their parliamentary leaders’ campaign against the UPA’s scams has not been punchy enough. Some even suspect the leaders of having struck deals with the Congress.

It was no good picking on a (Suresh) Kalmadi or a Raja or a Virbhadra Singh on corruption. Why were our leaders silent when a Gandhi family member’s name was out in the open?” a source asked.

They felt the BJP’s anti-Congress discourse remained “hollow” in its failure to put a “face” to the graft allegations. “Only Modi dared to do it because he is personally incorruptible,” a source claimed.

This was why Sushma Swaraj’s Sunday sermon, asking workers to avoid electoral sabotage, didn’t wash. “She helped a Karnataka leader to fix B.S. Yeddyurappa and we lost a great regional leader,” a source said.

In contrast, party president Rajnath Singh has become the season’s flavour —“all because he walked the extra mile to forget his past differences (with Modi) and place Modi firmly on the centre stage,” an insider said.

Yesterday, after the convention concluded, Modi went to Rajnath’s residence and is said to have thanked him for the gesture. “Rajnath is clever: he has grasped the significance of Modi’s speech,” a source said.

The reference was to the operative line — that regardless of who chooses to “join the march or not”, the country has made up its mind to throw the Congress out and is striding quickly.

“He (Modi) meant that the country had chosen him to lead this march,” the source said.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130305/j ... TUzj6L3D3U
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

Most of these liberal arts leftist worms in western academia have a common background in india
From wealthy families in the top6 metros
West to a select group of half dozen places like jnu, du ( stephens generally ) for ug
Used family money, metro location, connections and nri relatives to move abroad and get into academia because they have no marketable skill that outside employers would want other than ability to write long in english...some dabbled into cultural studies, philosophy, religious study..fields where you dont have to produce or prove anything new, but read a lot, argue a lot, be part of some cabal like the aryan horse gang...a clubby network spread across us academia for mutual support, each quoting the others work.

For a country as rational and science oriented at its core like usa i dont understand why such a vast system of do nothings is allowed to fester and prosper in their univ system. Maybe their version of these people have a protective cloak, maybe their belief that liberal arts is a good bucket to push those who are not into stem fields ( the pampered kids of their elite need some hook to hang hats for their fun filled univ years )
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vayutuvan »

Singha wrote:For a country as rational and science oriented at its core like usa i dont understand why such a vast system of do nothings is allowed to fester and prosper in their univ system.
There is enormous wastage in US university system. If a 50% of the people of any large public university are laid off, the university still can function (and may be even function better). Nature of the beast. Our tax dollahs at work :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Singha wrote:Most of these liberal arts leftist worms in western academia have a common background in india
From wealthy families in the top6 metros
West to a select group of half dozen places like jnu, du ( stephens generally ) for ug
Used family money, metro location, connections and nri relatives to move abroad and get into academia because they have no marketable skill that outside employers would want other than ability to write long in english...some dabbled into cultural studies, philosophy, religious study..fields where you dont have to produce or prove anything new, but read a lot, argue a lot, be part of some cabal like the aryan horse gang...a clubby network spread across us academia for mutual support, each quoting the others work.
+1000. The angry mood that I am going through will result is far worst description that above and hence not indulging for today
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Compared to a 'technical' education a liberals arts degree is quite cheap and less rigorous. Not everyone can keep up with the relentless demands of the better technical schools. In my first year of PG recitation my engineering course had 380+ students in 2 shifts as it was required course for all other specialties. By the second semester we were down to 200 or so. By the second year it dropped further to 120. I think my prof. told me that only 80 or so of the original 380 actually graduated with a technical degree. Recently one interns told me it is much worse now with only 20% graduation rates. All those drop outs have to go some where. Liberal arts it is and if that fails they can always become a lawyer...

In the USA it functions as a cheap way to get 1/3 the population a college degree. It improves the averages of work performance if not the commanding heights.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

RoyG wrote:Toorjo Ghosh the hippy leftist on ndtv debate.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... /267239?hp

These debates are unbearable. They stack 5 against 1 or 2 and call it a debate. It just goes to show that they are desperate to keep Modi down.
NDTV is notorious for its Kangaroo court debates. I don't know why BJP leaders keep appearing in its studios, instead of showing it the middle finger. Have we ever seen Mulayam Singh Yadav or Mayawati or Jayalalita ever grace its studios? They are least bothered and no harm comes to them. Mayawati openly mocks them as "faltu ke log." The champagne leftist Pranoy Roy has totally sold his soul to the Goras by accepting their funding to run his channel.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vera_k »

Indeed. Our recruiters recently presented data showing that in less than 10 years, most of the job candidate pool would be composed of former employees, and retirees.

In many ways, US university education today is comparable to what prevailed in India in the 1970s, before the massive expansion of technical education. The roots of why liberal arts are so powerful, are in history, where the colleges were founded before the industrial revolution.

Harvard, we have a problem
Over the past 25 years, the total number of students in college has increased by about 50 percent. But the number of students graduating with degrees in STEM subjects has remained more or less constant.

In 2009, the United States graduated 37,994 students with bachelor’s degrees in computer and information science. That’s not bad, but we graduated more students with computer-science degrees 25 years ago!
If a NM administration can fix India's infrastructure issues, there is no reason why the bulk of STEM work can't be moved to India.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^ Personally, I think this entore whartoon episode was all for the good only.

Keeps the base fired up, we do need an issue to rally around every now and then after all. Also, now makes the NM team more aware and alert of the new types of pitfalls that're springing up.

Personally, IMO, NM keeping away from the US system of power-brokerage and influence is a v good development. I just don;t see why NM should be beholden to the US in any shape or form.

That said (CT hat on), the US is pragmatic and the fact that they haven't felicitated NM means they think (or know, thanks to their binaries powering our EVMs) that he won't make PM??
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote: All those drop outs have to go some where. Liberal arts it is and if that fails they can ....
Well as long as these liberal arts types focused on internal US issues, that's fine by us. What this Wharton issue has clearly brought out is that this intellectual terrorism from the wastrels of the US liberal art system is now a global menace. The US long ago fixed the problem for itself, with its McCarthyism and ensured that Commies would never ever get any space in US media - but then these same morons get disproportionate space in global (esp Indian) media.

The US has passed on its detritus and turned it from being a US problem to being a global problem !! Not very different from the roots of Al Qaida. When they were getting too hot to handle for the Saudis, the royals turned their focus away from domestic Saudi issues to global issues.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Lately I have been watching undiTV to understand their coverage of NM. Tonight I watched Nidhi Razdan's program on wart-on episode.

I am surprised that none of the NM supporters present a ;) smart approach to answering the MSM nonsense. For example I would have said -

Let us put NM aside for a moment. If one were to see the way this issue is unfolded, we can see how the Wharton leftist Indian anti-nationals made a fool of themselves.

1. Firstly I would like to know if these professors and students who signed the petition were part of the agenda and invitee selection process. If they were, did they accept invitation to NM, if so why? If they did, why are they complaining now about it or are they prompted by their political masters to trigger their sleeper cells once their masters came to know about NM's acceptance of Wharton invitation. Where we're all these professors and students when the invitation was sent to NM?

2. Secondly NM never disagreed anyone's acceptance of his leadership. He consistently claimed to represent all Gujaratis irrespective of their caste, religion and political or sexual orientation. On the other hand it looks like the leftist liberal activists are lashing themselves to anything and everything Modi so they can be relavent in media and political circles.

3. NM made a public appeal to any and every patriotic Indian, to hang him if he were found guilty in 2002 riots. Many activist judges, police officers, NGOs, intellectuals and media professionals demanded and got multiple commissions, reports, special courts and what not in the past 11 years and are yet to prove NM's involvement in those riots. They are yet to reach a consensus number on number of people died in those riots, forget about proving Modi's culpability in the deaths of fake/imaginary thousands of muslims died.

4. NM as a potential PM of India will work with all the nations in the world as He leads India's raise on world stage. He will not reject any invitation that comes to him and doesn't feel bad when people do not invite him or cancel their invitations. As a person who has firm belief in democracy NM clearly understand that it not possible to get approval of 100% of Indians and they always will be people who will not accept him. But NM doesnt differentiate between people who voted for him and who didn't when he is the PM of India.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

So it is correct after all, sushma advani and ananth fixed yeddy.

I am really furious now, none of these 3 can win a LS seat on their own. These 3 should not be given a seat to contest at all.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rudradev »

People being dismissive of US Liberal Arts programs are being blinded by the camouflage.

True, most Liberal Arts curricula are easier to secure a "pass" in and graduate, as opposed to STEM curricula which are so demanding that only the most rigorous students are able to achieve degrees. So a lot of the dimwits do end up taking Liberal Arts degrees.

Don't let this blind you to what happens with the smart students in those courses (and believe me, they exist.) A professor at a major East Coast Univ who is a friend of mine, was among those. Speaks four languages fluently, went to a top Lib Arts school and then a prestigious grad school for a specialization in a particular non-US culture. She was scouted by the CIA before she had even finished undergrad. Didn't take it on because she didn't agree with US foreign policy :mrgreen: but the fact remains... these are the breeding grounds for top-cadre talent in government, intelligence and policymaking circles. You know that "Social Engineering" that Acharya ji is always warning about... who do you think they get to do that stuff?

Even more interesting is what these faculties do with non-US students. They're groomed to be representatives of their national/cultural narratives speaking in a US approved voice. It's no accident that this Turdjoy Ghosh or whatever his name is, didn't have his H1 revoked and/or get deported and/or end up in Guantanamo after being arrested while protesting at Occupy Philadelphia (can you imagine what would happen to one of us, getting arrested while taking part in an anti-GOTUS political movement?) There is a LOT of money and influence lavished on these creatures, obviously because people in the US deep state think they're a good investment for the resources. Organizations like the Templeton Trust and Ford Foundation are no fools.

Sepoys like these are the instrument of perpetuating the intellectual colonization of many countries... India being one of the most heavily targeted.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krisna »

Check out his Google.com/+Narendra Modi.
His speeches views and many others are updated daily sometimes within hours.
Amazing info with fans following him everywhere.

Doubt any other politician has these kind of followers.
This is going to be much bigger than any other from congis despite all their clout with media and sundries.

Only problem is how many will vote and influence families to vote.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Rudradevji +1.

Krishna garu - that is the karma Yoga all NM supporters must do this time. Identify real INC enemies in Bharat and only vote for them, no matter what. Only examples that come to my mind are - Akali Dal, TDP, AIDMK (at least for now), PS Sangma's NCP, SS etc other than BJP.

Vote for BJP even if you are not sure, if they have a candidate in your constituency. The parties should get a message that BJP does have a strong constituency and they are better off supporting BJP.

More than anything each one of us should work to influence (sama, Dana, Bheda and dandopayam) at least 100 voters to vote for BJP this time.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Rudradev wrote:Sepoys like these are the instrument of perpetuating the intellectual colonization of many countries... India being one of the most heavily targeted.
Well you are getting into whether these are 'home grown' free-lance intellectual terrorists or state-sponsored - which is the same debate one hears on Pakistan. First step is for the world and most especially, India - to recognize them as the intellectual terrorists that they are - and maybe initiate dialogue with the US to put a rein on their jihadis.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vera_k »

All the liberal arts business helps at the margins when conditions are already conducive. For instance, India is destined to have conservative governments for a long time, simply because men vastly outnumber women due to the sex ratio. Unless the liberal arts crowd can come up with a way to reduce testosterone :-).
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Arjun wrote:and maybe initiate dialogue with the US to put a rein on their jihadis.
That would be like talking to Pakistan to rein in their Jihadis.

We need to figure out pain points and keep hurting them, we cant take a frontal assault, but a gurelllia war is what is needed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

vera_k wrote:All the liberal arts business helps at the margins when conditions are already conducive. For instance, India is destined to have conservative governments for a long time, simply because men vastly outnumber women due to the sex ratio. Unless the liberal arts crowd can come up with a way to reduce testosterone :-).
That is an interesting point. Had not thought about that. Is it showing up at the polls?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Sanku wrote:That would be like talking to Pakistan to rein in their Jihadis.

We need to figure out pain points and keep hurting them, we cant take a frontal assault, but a gurelllia war is what is needed.
Agreed. Actually these jihadis have committed a HUGE blunder this time.

So far the best refuge for them has been the excuse of 'academic and intellectual freedom" - but this time around they are directly attacking freedom of expression, and that too in the US!! This is a huge slipup that needs to be milked for all its worth.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_23629 »

Arjun wrote:
Rudradev wrote:Sepoys like these are the instrument of perpetuating the intellectual colonization of many countries... India being one of the most heavily targeted.
Well you are getting into whether these are 'home grown' free-lance intellectual terrorists or state-sponsored - which is the same debate one hears on Pakistan. First step is for the world and most especially, India - to recognize them as the intellectual terrorists that they are - and maybe initiate dialogue with the US to put a rein on their jihadis.
The Goras are the puppet masters. Indian leftist liberals are the puppets.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

We must not forget the leftist people after their loss of USSR and China have already infected US and EU nations with all their S**t and EU nations are now begging. US could not have elected an idiot like Obama but for organised left support. Killing free enterprise spirit of people and entitlement culture now in US and their failure even to acknowledge the dangers Islamic terror groups pose to them are all result of this leftist gangs in media, universities etc. If you see CNN any day you will know how bad the thing in US. It is thousand times worst than India.

Just one question for you to think - Why is that Democrats of US end up supporting despotic nations more and will have bad relations with other democracies? Why Republicans talk about leauge of demacracies and have better relations with countries like India. Why people like Clintons, Obamas all are against India and Pro Pakiland? Why Bush want and did tired to be more frindly with India? Because left does not like demacracies in the first place inculding one in US.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by nachiket »

Arjun wrote: Well you are getting into whether these are 'home grown' free-lance intellectual terrorists or state-sponsored - which is the same debate one hears on Pakistan. First step is for the world and most especially, India - to recognize them as the intellectual terrorists that they are - and maybe initiate dialogue with the US to put a rein on their jihadis.
But whom do you refer to when you say "India"? Us much maligned "Internet Hindus" already recognize them for what they are. Our media is mostly populated with their own brothers and sisters. What can you expect from them? The rest of India doesn't care.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Is Wharton a business forum? Or an American fascist club?
Whoever it was who blocked Narendra Modi's participation at the Wharton forum on March 23, the move is nothing but a strategic blunder. Actually, the issue of Modi not getting a US visa is being sensationalized too much by the media and the Wharton incident snowballed the American antipathy for the leader further. But the fact is: no matter how much the critics of Modi try to derail him through the pressure tactics, he will continue to hit back at them for this ploy of trying to ignore a popular force doesn't work. History has ample evidence of such case.

Wharton actually shot at its own back by raising this anti-Modi cry.

The ‘about us' section of the Wharton India Economic Forum says: "Launched in 1996, The Wharton India Economic Forum (WIEF) is an annual India-centric conference hosted by the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, bringing together business and political leaders, professionals, academics and students from around the world to discuss India's evolution from an emerging nation to a prominent global economic power, and the key social, political and financial challenges which still stand in its way... Every year, WIEF has stimulated energetic dialogue between India's current and future industry leaders and policymakers, and has also served as a conduit for businesses to create and leverage professional connections."

Is Wharton a business forum? Really?

If this is about Wharton, then it does not have any right to judge Narendra Modi on the question of human rights record and take a stand which is politically partisan. Have the authorities of the institute forgotten that the country where it is located treats dictators across the globe as par its own convenience even while commanding respect as the most successful democracy in the world. Narendra Modi is a democratically elected leader and is a successful administrator, in fact the most successful in India at this moment. So, what's the logic in overlooking the positives that Modi has to offer and express a superficial regret over decade-old riots? Even there is no judicial confirmation of any sort that Modi was involved in those riots. And what are Shabana Azmi and Javed Akhtar doing in a business school forum? Do they know the business of administration better than Modi?

Don't invite but don't insult

The Wharton has insulted the Indian democracy through its act of scrapping Modi's name from the speakers' list. It has also mocked the much-revered judiciary of this country for the latter hasn't charged Modi for the riots. In fact, the so-called academics of this till-now prestigious institute has even tainted the goodwill of the American democracy by choking the right to free speech of a representative of another democracy, considered a close ally by Washington.

If there was indeed a sense of discomfort in the minds of these people, then they shouldn't have invited Modi at the first place. But by inviting him and then humiliating him, these ‘enlightened minds' (Ania Loomba, Suvir Kaul and Toorjo Ghosh are three English professors who kickstarted the anti-Modi campaign) have made a mockery of themselves and their country before the entire world. Interestingly, not a single signatory to the anti-Modi petition was a professor of the Wharton School, one of the most prestigious business schools in the US. May be the anti-Modi voices have a Leftist orientation but we all know, (fashionable) leftism itself is a dead coin in this age.

The role of the Indian government


This is more shocking. The Indian government itself is one of the sponsors of the Wharton event and it silently watched how a democratically elected leader from India was given a sorry treatment. It is indeed shocking to see that the country's government could not rise above domestic partisan politics even on the foreign soil and allowed the nation's image to take a beating.

The ruling party perhaps found a nice opportunity to avenge what the Gujarat CM had uttered about its perennial power centre at a party conclave just the day before. This is a sad commentary on the world's largest democracy. Will the ruling party back Arvind Kejriwal of the Aam Aadmi Party, who has also caused it much inconvenience at the recent times, at the Wharton? Not unlikely. Kejriwal, afterall, doesn't yet have a firm political root. The Wharton experience would just add some value to his CV. That's all. But for Modi, appearing at the Wharton, even if virtually, would mean that he has overcome the final frontier. This is something the ruling party would have found threatening before the next Lok Sabha polls.

Politics is eating into our democracy.

The role of the US government

The US administration might not have a direct involvement in the episode but was this silence desirable? The silence has only equated Washington's reluctance to grant a visa to Modi with the Wharton fiasco. The country is called the most suitable democracy on the earth but then how could it allow itself to be hijacked by some fascist minds? The US government doesn't have the compulsion of coalition politics but yet it could not keep itself above the negative politics even when the spirit of its own Consitution was jeopardized. The way Wharton buckled under pressure from some undemocratic forces and the US looked on silently (or helplessly?), it proved that even the biggest democracy is yet to cover some distance to become the greatest.

The impact of the Wharton incident will not end here. If Narendra Modi indeed becomes the prime minister of India one day, it will be the same US which would have to engage with him for myriad reasons. It would not be able to overlook a key ally just for one person. We could even see the Wharton courting Modi to make a physical presence and deliver a speech. Those ivory-tower academics who are occupying a moral high ground today will then vanish in the split of a second.

Politics is a game of uncertainty. Wharton played it, but does it know it?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

vera_k wrote:All the liberal arts business helps at the margins when conditions are already conducive. For instance, India is destined to have conservative governments for a long time, simply because men vastly outnumber women due to the sex ratio. Unless the liberal arts crowd can come up with a way to reduce testosterone :-).
Doesn't hold true for India. Hinduism is not socially 'conservative' as understood in the Abrahamic sense. So testosterone levels should not make a difference.

Another data point - Women in Gujarat largely voted for Modi in the recent elections.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20292 »

I wonder why all this halla about wharton uninviting namo?

I have seen personally ivy leaguers first hand and I can say that we have far better talent in our country, albeit with poorer opportunities than in afforded to some of these ivy league ch**ts.

The first step in intellectual independence from the west is to not look to them for approval. With this post I am giving my point of view, and encouraging readers to not look too much into and give too much importance to some two bit ivy league.

** N.B this is after having attended one myself, and having had family and friends getting degrees from there.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Rahul Gandhi turns down Wharton School's invitation to speak at India Economic Forum
The Gandhi scion was approached by the WIEF as a replacement for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, who was earlier invited for the event.
RG did (unwitingly perhaps) display good sense in turning down the invitation. Even if he did so coz he feared a total expose of his intellectual bankruptcy. To really raise his stock, he should say he refused because Whartoon played interference in Internal Indian politics. Only.
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