Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Mar 2013 21:09

Sushupti wrote:Only yesterday Ramay Ji objected to me for calling him LOL Purush. Don't underestimate him, he has plans to launch "BJP(secular)". Yesterday his PA Kulkarni fellow criticized Ajmer Mulla for boycotting Paki PM.

At this stage, a split in the BJP would be disastrous for Advani & Co. What would they leave with?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2013 21:13

If LKA group leaves BJP they will lose everything they have including their legacy.

It will not dent BJP a bit, and it may even strengthen BJP. They will have to live on the alms the dhimmi media pays and nothing else.

I have a feeling that the earlier rumors of this group's stash in Macau islands could be true and now they might be planning to join the other foreign bank account wallahs in migrating out of India for good.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 09 Mar 2013 21:18

fanne wrote:Advani ji is playing dirty polictics. In Cahoots with Ananth Kumar (and Sushma), they got Yeddy removed (and I am not going into corruption here). Ananth Kumar is probably the most honest politician (he is, that is his USP). But Remember Atri ji list of Vices - Kam, Krodh, Moh, Lobh, Aham and .... While we can pin Lobh on Yeddy, Ananth has Aham in huge major, the prime minister of vices. Just because he is honest, he will have BJP or Indic forces loose and be relegated to dustbin of history than give up his right to be right (also called my way or the highway). You know why Advani is playing this tape recorder of Yeddy bad (when Yeddy is out and history), because, without Yeddy and Karnataka, there is no BJP govt. Modi knowing this will try to bring this back, at that opportunate Moment LKA will do the final STAB, go on anshan and ask Modi to be replaced by Sushma. D-3 is the real Jiachnad right now.
rgds,
fanne

If you take medicines that is way past expired date what will happen?
If you eat food that is way past sell date what will happen to you?
If you feed you kid with past sell date and expired milk what happens?

Advani, Anant Kumar, Govindacharya, Uma Bharati and all such junk will result in same way for BJP and also India. Welcome to UPA-3

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2013 21:21

The game is getting more and more interesting

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Mar 2013 21:36

Part 2 from Saswati Sarkar: http://www.niticentral.com/2013/03/09/w ... ment-44526

Read it up all......good solid sane arguments all for pro-Modi. One needs to see more such professors, scholars, professionals, military, business, youngistan crowd joining the bandwagon. Both good and bad attracts followers. When there is no good, the followers who are longing for good are dispersed and not united. Modi's accomplishments and vision are what is attracting scores.

This elite support is similar to the elite support BJP enjoyed in the early/mid nineties. Hopefully, all this percolates to the voters.

ps: Btw, some of you might remember my strong opposition to foreign Universities entering India - be it liberal arts or engineering. Just don't let the Horse come into your compound.

added: Modi should be ready to leave BJP, if necessary.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Mar 2013 21:49

The Sabarmati riverfront project is a much needed project type but the full project cost is likely to exceed Rs 1,000 crore. Already over Rs 600 crore has been spent. The water cleanup was provided by the Narmada canal IIRC. The project is made possible by the vasana barrage built in the 1970's for flood control originally, which allows the water level to rise within the banks. This is a very interesting engineering concept, infact this exact design is what allows the Seine in Paris to be filled with water all the time. More barrages could be built to raise the water level. If sources of water like the Narmada are not available, sewer water could be recycled to safe level and released into the channels as is done in Europe. This would require mega-bucks as well.

The Yamuna project is strictly not comparable as it focused entirely on water quality. It was spread over 20 years and the CAG has indicated that the population along the banks is 3 times! what the original proposal planned for. CAG also indicated that funded projects were working well but have simply been swamped by population. If anything Delhi should have spent 3 times more to even begin a turn around. We are going to have to spend astronomical sums to turn these things around. To give one reference number, the spending and commitment to the Delhi metro now exceeds Rs40,000 crore. This is the sort of commitment that is required.

Indian cities need to spend a heck of a lot more to clean-up. We should be realistic about the costs however. As a Thumb rule roughly $15 Billion of fresh capital investment will be needed per million residents just to bring Indian cities into the second world. For a city like Ahmedabad this would mean $75 Billion+, we should prepare for such spending. In Delhi this would mean $300 Billion plus!!

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 09 Mar 2013 21:49

I never heard this name Sri Goparaju before.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Mar 2013 21:55

Calling someone as Maut Ka Saudagar is as rude and insulting as it can get.

BTW Termites are a delicacy in some tribal regions of the country and Kongis are now afraid to go there.

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/8072

http://www.niscair.res.in/sciencecommun ... 76-379.htm

100 gm serving of termites contains
Termite (Macrotermes subhyanlinus)

Energy (Kcal)613
Protein(gm) 14.2
Iron (mg) 0.75
Thiamine (mg) 0.13
Riboflavin(mg) 1.15
Niacin (mg) 0.95

See even termites are useful. Its a term more respectful then someone being termed kongis. I am not sure why NaMo was insulting termites.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Mar 2013 22:00

Muppalla wrote:
ravi_g wrote:Muppalla ji the length should not matter. The jurisdiction over the sources of pollution should.
absolutely. Someone is making a big deal of it. Even if you make take lengths into consideration, see the difference in money spent and the implementation speed. The math tells the truth.

Kya absolutely? How can the length of a river not matter when it comes to cleaning it, huh? Harayana, N.Delhi and Uttar Pradesh are all accused of polluting Yamuna. I do not argue that Modi should not be given credit for any river cleaning he has undertaken, but apples to oranges comparison does not do Modi any good.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 09 Mar 2013 22:04

SwamyG wrote:
Muppalla wrote: absolutely. Someone is making a big deal of it. Even if you make take lengths into consideration, see the difference in money spent and the implementation speed. The math tells the truth.
Kya absolutely? How can the length of a river not matter when it comes to cleaning it, huh? Harayana, N.Delhi and Uttar Pradesh are all accused of polluting Yamuna.

Yamuna is clean before it enters Delhi, its polluted after it leaves. Delhi's entire water supply is from the head works on Yamuna as it enters delhi. After it leaves, UP does not/can not drink from it.

UP pollution is downstream.

I agree that Yamuna and Sabarmati can not be compared. There is nothing done for Yamuna, the amounts of money spent on each does not matter, in case of yamuna it is divide by zero

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 09 Mar 2013 22:05

SwamyG wrote: added: Modi should be ready to leave BJP, if necessary.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2013 22:11

SwamyG garu,

I request you to look at that picture again.

There are multiple things to a river cleaning project.

1. Cleaning the surroundings - as NM did. This is a low-hanging fruit with low cost. SD could have done that with some of the project money. But didn't.

What this would do is to stop public usage of the river front as some open dump yard. This will have immediate impact on immediate Eco system

2. Diverting the industrial waste and adding water treatment plans - this will stop fresh addition of industrial wastes. This is the approach Hyderabad followed w.r.t Hussein sagar in step 2.

3. Dredging and planning continuous flow of fresh water into the river system - this is what NM has done and SD could have done easily by connecting the roadside rain water drainage systems to Yamuna river acquiducts

4. Cleaning the river water flow itself. This would mean ensuring that industrial waste is not directly connected to river systems, upstream cleaning etc, which is not SD's job but part of a national river cleanup project. As Sankuji said, the real contributor to Yamuna pollution is Delhi itself, which is SD's failure for being in power for 15 years.

SD could have easily done steps 1-3 with the funds she had and wihin her jurisdiction but you don't see any result there.

NM on the other hand has shown excellent results in steps 1&3 and we need more details on 2.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 09 Mar 2013 22:29

RamaY wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Only yesterday Ramay Ji objected to me for calling him LOL Purush. Don't underestimate him, he has plans to launch "BJP(secular)". Yesterday his PA Kulkarni fellow criticized Ajmer Mulla for boycotting Paki PM.
I think I am still in 1992 mindset. I could be wrong.

So is Sushupti ji, when he/she says that PA Kulkarni is Advani's PA.

BTW, I read Advani-ji's statement, I personally agree with him. There is public disillusionment with BJP to a extent. They did lose Uttarakhand and HP.

Neither of which is acceptable -- people are getting a little too carried away in Modi's charm. The party has to win 200 seats, it is not going to be a blitz, but a trench battle, a km at a time. There is no reason to assume that NaMo's presence will change the dynamics of a party level constraints or strengths by more than a few % points.

So picture abhi baaki hai.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 09 Mar 2013 22:35

varunkumar wrote:
Towards those who have not toed his line of thought, he has been oppressive. His style of governance has not allowed anybody else to emerge as a leader. When he does not delegate and does not trust, forget about appreciating the work of his team members.
Wasn't the same true of Nehru?

It was ONLY true for Nehru. Modi has at least one leader behind him, Amit Shah, which INC is targeting.

Only friends of Modi like Sushupti ji will take a vile attack on Modi and celebrate it like a victory.

I am very glad that Modi's real friends are like his mentor and supporter in BJP, this might be a little too complicated for some.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Mar 2013 22:45

Sanku sahib: I read wikipedia before my post, so yes I agree with whatever you have said about who pollutes more....no disagreement onlee.

RamaY: Do you know the details about the picture? I suspected something about the picture earlier, I did a bit of googling, and was not 100% sure, so did not bring that point before. To my ignorant mind, the monument behind the scenes is Taj Mahal which is in Agra and not in New Delhi. People from that region, can correct me if I am wrong. The other monument that I could think of is Humayun's Tomb in New Delhi, but the picture is not that. Jama Masjid has minarets, but they are not like those of in the picture.

Agra is further downstream, and even if for argument sake (based on the fact that New Delhi pollutes Yamuna the most), we accept the reason for Yamuna in Agra is because of New Delhi, the garbage you see in the photo belongs to that area. Because of the sheer size of the river running across several states, several states have to take the responsibility.

And, I am not saying Sheila has done her job or better job than Modi; irrespective of how they have each done their job - it is apples to oranges comparison.

And no I am not and cannot support Shiela, based on media reports she is incompetent and corrupt. So I am not supporting her.

So if you think that is truly a New Delhi monument, then it still does not make sense to compare. Hoot-n-scoot types of attack will only go so much distance. Why be lazy on pick some picture off the internet to prove Modi is an able leader, administrator and a man with vision?

Just doing my part to further strengthen solid arguments for Modi. We don't need flimsily created tweets or messages to show case Modi

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 09 Mar 2013 22:50

You got me there. Yes, it could be Agra.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 09 Mar 2013 23:07

RamaY wrote:You got me there. Yes, it could be Agra.

No problem. We can wait for some Delhiwallahs to set the matter straight. If it is Taj Mahal or not. Irrespective of that picture, my argument still holds good. We are all on the same side. Me just hoping we do not give any low hanging fruits to the opponents. And if the opponent is drowning in the sea of elections, which looks like they are, let us not give even one straw for them to claw their way back, no?

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 Mar 2013 23:44

SwamyG wrote:Just doing my part to further strengthen solid arguments for Modi. We don't need flimsily created tweets or messages to show case Modi

True. However there was a fotu of a poor person enjoying a heavenly bath in Yamuna (The effluents in Yamuna had created the foam). The point is, so much money is poured into Delhi and the outcome is still zero. Compared to outcome in Ahmedabad, which is nothing less than stunning.

Why it is nothing less than stunning? Posters here are already complaining that the river front is not on par with Sienne France or Sydney (or say Germany).

That is what NaMo's point in BJP Plenary speech was. That Gujarat is being compared with France and Germany and lacunae's pointed out.

The point is, Delhi (both old and new) has been left far behind in comparison to Ahmedabad. And this is with no help from any body outside of Gujarat, or even outside of Ahmedabad! (see my next post)

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Mar 2013 00:04

Theo_Fidel wrote:The Sabarmati riverfront project is a much needed project type but the full project cost is likely to exceed Rs 1,000 crore. Already over Rs 600 crore has been spent. The water cleanup was provided by the Narmada canal IIRC.

Where do you get your numbers from? Please cite it otherwise you stand accused of pulling the numbers from your musharaf. Here are the plan estimates from 1998. Please factor in inflation over a period of 7 years starting from 2002 (and ending in 2009) when majority of the work was completed.

Total Cost Estimate: @250 Cr.
Total Revenue Potential: @450 Cr.

The revenue potential far outstripped the cost potential.

... If sources of water like the Narmada are not available, sewer water could be recycled to safe level and released into the channels as is done in Europe. This would require mega-bucks as well.

You start of on a right track and end up on the wrong track because of your biases. Narmada is some 300 km south of Ahmedabad. The canal from Narmada goes to Saurashstra some 150 km north-west of Ahmedabad. It crosses Sabarmati at Ahmedabad and an overflow channel from the canal is diverted back into Sabarmati to provision for drinking water. Again this is an engineering project of massive scale. And definitely does not come under the sabarmati river development project.

The Yamuna project is strictly not comparable as it focused entirely on water quality. It was spread over 20 years and the CAG has indicated that the population along the banks is 3 times! what the original proposal planned for....
For a city like Ahmedabad this would mean $75 Billion+, we should prepare for such spending. In Delhi this would mean $300 Billion plus!!

Wrong again. All I can say is shake my head and suggest to read more and keep your biases out of it.

Point is, Modi enabled the Sabarmati river front project. It was funded right from the beginning by Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation. Not even from the Gujarat state. So how was it managed? Even if the scale is 3 times more, the challenges were the same. That is among other things,

1. Move the slums out,
2. Ensure flood control
3. City redevelopment
4. And the biggest - clean up the river. Sabarmati became a sewage in the 80s and 90s.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Mar 2013 00:10

SwamyG garu, you argumentation off late has become like just bringing arguments for the sake of arguments. I know you have better skills to search all over the web. You can rarely see progress of Delhi's Yamuna cleaning. Meanwhile Sabarmati has cleaned up to a large extent.

20 km - 10km
1500cr - 600cr (Mr. Theo Fidel's number)
Hardly visible Vs visible changes

Here are the Yamuna cleaning related links
http://post.jagran.com/Yamuna-cleaning- ... 1335177836
http://www.india.com/topic/Yamuna-cleaning-project.html

Basic search is also not getting any progress reports.

That is the state. All you are manging something what we call in Telugu "jiddu banka" argumentation. (clinging with arguments just for argument's sake).

All it needs is give you an argument and do

because you will anyway dance around the arguments. It is really fun to watch the show because it will argument for sake of argument with fake moral highgrounds and fake devil's advocacy.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Mar 2013 00:14

RamaY wrote: There are multiple things to a river cleaning project.

1. Cleaning the surroundings - as NM did. This is a low-hanging fruit with low cost. SD could have done that with some of the project money. But didn't.
2. Diverting the industrial waste and adding water treatment plans - this will stop fresh addition of industrial wastes. This is the approach Hyderabad followed w.r.t Hussein sagar in step 2.
3. Dredging and planning continuous flow of fresh water into the river system - this is what NM has done and SD could have done easily by connecting the roadside rain water drainage systems to Yamuna river acquiducts
4. Cleaning the river water flow itself. This would mean ensuring that industrial waste is not directly connected to river systems, upstream cleaning etc, which is not SD's job but part of a national river cleanup project. As Sankuji said, the real contributor to Yamuna pollution is Delhi itself, which is SD's failure for being in power for 15 years.

Ramay'ji., SD in Delhi - did nothing.

Here were the goals of the Sabarmati River Development Project, Ahmedabad.

1. Make the Riverfront accessible to the public (done, fotus from 2012 prove that)
2. Stop the flow of sewage. Keep the river clean and pollution free. (done, fotus prove that again)
3. Provide permanent housing for riverbed slum dwellers. (Done. This was BTW, monitored by HC. The slum dwellers moved from slums - jhuggi-jhopdi to permanent 2BHK homes)
4. Reduce risk of erosion and flooding in flood prone neighbourhoods. (Done. The floods of 2006 in Ahmedabad actually gave further impetus to this project)
5. Create public spaces, socio-cultural facilities for Ahmedabadis to enjoy. (Done. Fotus from 2012 prove that)
6. Self-funding project. (It was indeed, overall Ahmedabad Municipal corporation - will come out in Green from this project).

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Mar 2013 00:15

Muppalla wrote:SwamyG garu, you argumentation off late has become like just bringing arguments for the sake of arguments. ...
All it needs is give you an argument and do because you will anyway dance around the arguments. It is really fun to watch the show because it will argument for sake of argument with fake moral highgrounds and fake devil's advocacy.

+1. Contrarian positions just for the sake of it gets tiring.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Mar 2013 00:17

And in the interest of transparency, here is a snapshot of the entire Sabarmati River Development Project. Please go through this., I do have an issue with one slide in this presentation in particular (the person who prepared that slide should be kicked around for some gnan, but nothing more).

http://iuc2011.in/sites/default/files/p ... t_comp.pdf

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Mar 2013 00:27

Sanku wrote: BTW, I read Advani-ji's statement, I personally agree with him. There is public disillusionment with BJP to a extent. They did lose Uttarakhand and HP.

Neither of which is acceptable -- people are getting a little too carried away in Modi's charm. The party has to win 200 seats, it is not going to be a blitz, but a trench battle, a km at a time. There is no reason to assume that NaMo's presence will change the dynamics of a party level constraints or strengths by more than a few % points.

So picture abhi baaki hai.

I disagree. People disillusionment with BJP is oxymoron. People are generally disillusioned with everyone. Losing Uttarakhand and HP has everything to do with show of "lack of unitiy" by BJP and mainly triggered by Advani's chamchas. His interview about anti-corruption is another hilarious stuff.

HP government has given a very clean governance and the state has elected a CM who was chargesheeted in a scam and later to make him CM the CBI was asked to vacate the chargesheet and the case.

UK is another special group plot inside BJP who went every step to ensure cleaner Kandhuri to lose. In both cases the cleaner ones lost and both belong to BJP.

Taking a high ground of corruption and not allow any tact is all Advani is trying project. It is very helpful as a great argument. The ground realities are:
(1) HP - corruption wins
(2) UK - Honesty loses
(3) AP- Jagan being arrested on scores of corruption cases becomes the real new pole for future elections
(4) Laloo - rules Bihar for 15 years (all that while being corrupt)
(5) Shiela wins three times and can win one more time (after all CWG and other stuff)

Advani's gently face is good for arguments sake. There is a party called Loksatta in AP who always talks of corruption as issue. Advani can take BJP to that level and in fact during his prime he brought up BJP from that level and looks like it is his wish to take where he started before he dies.

He is the reason for confusion. If he and his ilk are not there, the confusion will be far less. His anti-corruption crusade, the purer saffron's Hndutva speeches are not any tacts. They are coming out as out of context so that people will really be disillusioned.

I wish he withers out sooner.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Mar 2013 00:49

Muppalla: Ah....the old familiar trick, hit at the messenger. If you cannot find fault with the message. Continue onlee saar. Who is going to stop you. You sure will find lots of ching-chaks. I guess even mediocrity attracts people. And don't forget to share that picture with even more people.

And for the real serious folks, who like good solid info on the Sabramati Riverfront, and what Modi and AMC achieved: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1107117 It captures photos, news article and information all from 2010.

Added:

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Mar 2013 00:54

Anybody who disagrees with my argumentation is non-serious actor. Another postulate from SwamyGal

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 10 Mar 2013 01:12

SwamyG:

The key narrative to me is that Modi gets things done.

That is half the problem in India.

And he does it in a self-funding manner.

Contrast that with the INC. If a project is coming they will go and buy land often by intimidation, and then demand "market price". That is wholesale transfer of wealth from the state to the INC cronies. There is enough wealth generated from Taj related tourism for them to fix the Yamuna banks. They could create a Taj riverfront area which the mango man could enjoy. Dining in the shadow of the Taj, would attract a lot of moolah. But who has the vision??

And of course nothing gets done.

Everything else is just splitting hair.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Mar 2013 01:14

Ulta chor kotwal ko dante. An argument is not bolstered by attacking the messenger - which is what you are doing. Calling arguments as "arguments for the sake of arguments" is a time honored technique onlee. As I said, nobody can stop you or others.

VikramS: I agree 100% saar. I want to add some others do get things done. But that is not the focus here. Like I said, I give all credit to Modi for his accomplishment and vision. Modi will not be remembered for his accomplishments, he will be remembered for inspiring and changing the game. Annals of history will have foot notes on how this or that CM followed Modi's footsteps ityadi. Just remember you heard it here, and from me.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Mar 2013 01:21

Modi is right but the way you said he is right is wrong. He is right because I said he is right and not because you said. You know what you said is not fair. However, my argument is serious and hence Modi is the right answer.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Mar 2013 01:55

MODI AND THE WHARTON AFFAIR
Human rights and economy are linked
The irony is lost on the idiot Prof

t has been a strange experience to witness the unfolding of events and rhetoric after I, along with some colleagues, drafted a letter to the student organisers of the Wharton India Economic Forum, protesting their decision to invite Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi to be a keynote speaker at its 17th Economic Forum on March 23, 2013.What we did not expect is that the Wharton India Economic Forum would disinvite him so quickly. Large sections of the Indian media have projected this as a case of UPenn faculty (i.e. those of us who initiated the letter) or the administration pressurising hapless students. This is not true.Was our letter’s promise to protest at the event and “to educate our community about the incalculable and continuing harm done by Modi’s brand of politics to the secular values enshrined in India’s Constitution” so threatening? Does that sound like a denial of freedom of speech, as has been made out by so much of the press? Student groups in the U.S. are free to invite whom they want, but that does not mean no one can protest their decisions. Few have noted that just last week, the President of Fordham University in New York blasted student Republican Groups for inviting the right-wing commentator, Ann Coulter, and that she was subsequently disinvited. When the questioning comes not from the administration but from faculty and students, as it did in the Wharton case, it is not anti-democratic but the essence of democracy.
The reason so many commentators have chosen to project this particular incident as a freedom of speech issue is that it allows them to project Mr. Modi as a wronged party. Some commentators who argue that Mr. Modi should not have been disinvited connect the issue to the U.S.’s lack of concern for human rights, as if anyone who questions Mr. Modi is thereby condoning other atrocities. Others suggest that because the anti-Sikh riots of 1984 have also not been adequately redressed, we should simply move past what happened in Gujarat. This is the way in which a consensus begins to be built up in the public sphere, and in which pitting one atrocity against another exonerates those responsible for all of them.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 10 Mar 2013 02:40

Both UK and HP were sabotage by sections of the Sangh. They don't like Khanduri being paradropped by high command on UK instead of Koshiyari. If Khanduri had won his seat the BJP would also win (they were one seat short and the CM lost). High command paradropping is INC culture which the BJP Dillibillis seem to have adopted. Although Khanduri is extremely capable (Golden Quad) next time they should stick with Koshiyari as thats what the local Sanghis want. HP is due to Shanta Kumar being shown the door and Dhumal lacking charisma and capability like say Chauhan and RS.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 10 Mar 2013 02:56

My comment to Loomba at Hindu

"I wish India was not a country where fault lines are widened using violence.

What bothers me is that Indian leftists do not confront the Gandhi family for the scores of riots which have happened under their watch; Or their justification for the murder of 4000 Sikhs in 1984.

Does boycotting Modi absolve the Gandhi family of their role?

Modi's economic model has stuck a chord with many Indians; it provides hope to many who aspire for a better life. It would have been worth while to analyze it, critique it & learn from it. That debate did not require Modi to be answer; a panel discussion after his talk would have done the job well enough

The irony couldn't be more obvious.

Loomba belongs to a family of important Communist leaders. However, she has no qualms accepting a chaired position at one the temples of American capitalism.

While she enjoys the wealth which UPenn has to offer, she does not feel that the rest of India has the right to hear or discuss alternative economic ideas"

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 10 Mar 2013 03:04

Rahul’s political thoughts: Tavleen Singh

What astonishing galvanisation one speech by Narendra Modi has caused in the higher echelons of the Congress party. Nobody can remember when the Prime Minister was as animated as he was in the Lok Sabha last week. And suddenly Rahul Gandhi is deigning to talk to reporters. Was it the Gujarat Chief Minister's derisive references to the 'family' that generated this change? Or has the Congress party noticed that a general election looms ever closer and it has nothing new to offer voters except a reluctant prince?

Politically, the leitmotif of this government has been corruption and on the economic front, the leitmotif is that from dizzyingly high growth rates the economy has plummeted to the lowest in a decade. If prices continue to rise and jobs continue to disappear, no amount of free foodgrain is going to induce people to vote back the Congress. But this week, I would like to talk about Rahul Gandhi. I have hesitated so far to seriously analyse his political role because he has so rarely said anything that can be construed as a political thought. Now that he has, it deserves some honest analysis.

A day after his unexpected press conference in which he declared that he would never be prime minister, I happened to be on an NDTV panel with a dedicated Rahul acolyte. This gentleman was so passionate that he literally spat every time he mentioned Narendra Modi's name. Look at the difference between the two men, he shouted, here is man who does not want power and there is a man who has shown that he is desperate for power. I did not get a chance to take him up on this, but would like to make the point here that Rahul already has more power than almost any politician in India other than his mother. So why should he want something he already has? What is more puzzling is his reluctance to implement the ideas he would like to dedicate his future political career to.

He wants to strengthen the Congress party by abolishing the high command (Mummy and him) and give power into the hands of more than 5,000 elected representatives. He would like to create between 40 and 50 Congress leaders capable of not just becoming chief ministers but even prime minister. These are excellent ideas and would go a long way towards deepening democratic principles all the way down to the villages. So why has Rahul not done anything more than talk? Why are the Congress party ranks filled with heirs? Why is dynastic democracy now so strong that even the humblest village headman does not give up his seat except to a relation?

It is true that the dynastic disease has infected nearly every other political party, but it is also true that these other parties are not led by men who profess to want to change anything. They have a clear reason for bringing their wives, children, brothers and sisters into politics and this is that in India political power is the easiest way to make a lot of money very quickly. A clever political heir can make more money in five years than a successful businessman makes at the end of a lifetime.

Rahul Gandhi knows this as well as anyone else in politics, and if he wants to change things, then this is terrific. But why does he not get on with it? Why does he not begin by ensuring that next time the Congress party wins elections in some state, the high command is not given the task of choosing the chief minister? Why does he not ensure that next time a parliamentary constituency reports a vacancy, it does not get handed down to an heir?

These are things that, as a responsible political pundit, I have mulled over long and hard ever since Rahul made his political views public at that impromptu press conference last week. At the end of all this mulling I am unable to tell you more than that I remain puzzled and mystified, especially by his description of himself as a 'parachute'.

It was a confusing remark and Rahul appears to be still confused about what his political role should be and why he does not want to claim his inheritance and become prime minister. If it is only to enjoy immense political power without an iota of accountability then he should quickly start thinking again. He should keep in mind that this is a game that his mother has already played and that there are many, many Indians now who have seen through it. If he has any doubts, then on his next rural sleepover he should just ask people who they believe is the most powerful leader in India.

Follow Tavleen Singh on Twitter @ tavleen_singh

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 10 Mar 2013 03:06

Supratik ji,
Can you please elaborate more. Most of us are arm chair pundits and do not know what is going on. If you know the ground realities, please write. If it is from internet and people from US, please do write but mention that it is data from here and not ground. What you say has been popping up (in Rajasthan, Sangh was against Raje, even in Guj they were against NM). Is there a pattern (or just collective hallucination of arm chair walas)? Is Sangh compromised or maybe working on a different paradigm (like greatness of person and not his inability) or just some group of people to drunk of their own cool aid? It will help. Some members here will object, but ignore them please, they are on our side, but there assumptions may not be valid anymore (that Sangh can do no wrong).
rgds,
fanne

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 10 Mar 2013 03:14

Modi buzzword across the world

Swapan Dasgupta

India’s meteorological department may well have a mixed record of accurately forecasting the weather. However, when it comes to identifying changing political patterns, the well-entrenched Establishment of the National Capital is usually on the ball.

The past few weeks have witnessed a remarkable churning that would have been unimaginable in 2012. The Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi who had, at best, been viewed as an effective State leader who enjoyed niche support in the social media but who — or so the consensus went — was far too “rigid” and “polarising” a figure to make it to the national change, has suddenly undergone a perceptional transformation. Today, the movers and shakers are suddenly beginning to see his possible virtues and, more important, look for possible connections to him. It is not that they have joined those in the BJP and outside who have anointed him the Prime Minister-in-waiting. The Establishment is still too cautious to undertake futures trading. However, they are examining every one of Modi’s moves and probing areas of strength and vulnerability.

I was particularly struck by the overall adverse reaction to the cancellation of Modi’s long-distance keynote address to a conference on India organised by the Wharton Business School. Even those who are neutral on the Modi question felt that Wharton was guilty of grave discourtesy and there were murmurs about American busy bodies trying to influence the course of Indian politics. Overall, I would say that Modi gained considerable sympathy and that there was dissatisfaction over External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid’s sly endorsement of this show of liberal intolerance.

What the Wharton incident revealed, of course, is that there are people who will persist in projecting Modi as a pariah regardless of what India thinks of him. But there are others who will be a little more subtle in ensuring that an outsider from the provinces does not come to dominate the Centre. Since the BJP National Council meeting, much has been made of the fact that the party patriarch chose to compare Sushma Swaraj to Vajpayee. Commentators with very little sympathy for the BJP have suddenly discovered hidden virtues in both Advani and even the RSS. “Advani is still the man to watch out for” is often the prognosis of those who are unsettled by the prospect of a pugnacious, inspirational, OBC leader arriving in Delhi to take over the reins of power.

The resurrection of Advani by the commentariat has the sly approval of a section of the BJP that have a Modi allergy. However, every karyakarta in the party knows that while Advani is a figure of respect, projecting him as a possible leader of the BJP will invite ridicule from the electorate. Advani’s contribution to the growth of the BJP is unmatched. Yet, it is a cruel fact that his stature within the political class isn’t matched by a corresponding enthusiasm for his prime ministerial ambitions — unless, of course, for some bizarre reason the BJP is determined to spend another few years in the Opposition benches.

Even the Congress, which had once assumed that Modi’s rise to national prominence would guarantee a third term for the UPA, is increasingly getting nervous about the man from Gujarat. Rahul Gandhi’s ‘informal’ chat with the media about marriage, politics and his own ambitions may well have had a note of utmost sincerity attached to it. But coming so soon after his ‘coronation speech’ at the AICC session in Jaipur two months — when his oratory was compared to President Obama’s — it has thrown the Congress into a tizzy.

The ruling party knows that it will approach 2014 with the burden of anti-incumbency, especially if the economy continues to plod along at the 5% growth level. It had hoped to offset some of that disadvantage by projecting a Rahul who believed in a ‘new’ politics and could relate to younger voters. The question now being asked is couched in worry: if Rahul is sending such contradictory and even defeatist messages, how will the Congress workers muster the enthusiasm for a battle against Modi next year? And, if the party is listless, how will it attract new partners? Is 2014 going to be a defensive battle to salvage whatever it can for a future day?

The Congress’ best hope lies in the BJP scoring a series of self-goals and maybe, just maybe, Nitish Kumar walking out of the NDA in disgust over the projection of Modi. Nothing is impossible in politics but it is always erroneous to assume that only one side has a monopoly of cleverness. Modi’s detractors are certainly active in hoping that he can be checkmated by the party apparatchiks. But they forget that Modi too has a few reserve cards up his sleeve — some for flashing at his party colleagues and some for the battle in 2014. Most significantly, a cocooned group of apparatchiks are never able to guage the intensity and destructive powers of a groundswell from below. Two years ago, Mamata Banerjee overthrew the most well-entrenched and well-oiled political machine created in post-Independent India by the CPI(M) in West Bengal. She did it purely by nurturing a revolt from below.

It is still too early to identify all the forces that will come into play in 2014. The next 12 months could even see the UPA organise a spirited fightback using freebies and handouts. But the risk of over-interpretation, I will not be surprised if we are witnessing the definite beginnings of a Modi wave whose reach extends far beyond the traditional bastions of the BJP. If the momentum persists, we are likely to see an accretion in the strength of the NDA. Smaller parties invoke ‘secularism’ when the going is against the BJP; they re-discover anti-Congressism when the mood shifts to the saffron side.

Modi has become India’s foremost talking point and the buzz may prove terribly contagious — and more so if Rahul continues to be engulfed by existential dilemmas. An electoral force generated by the energies of below is always an exhilerating experience for any democracy.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/ ... world.html

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 10 Mar 2013 04:00

Fanne, it is a summary of opinions and analysis by different people from different media (both anti- and pro-BJP). Factionalism is not unusual in almost all Indian political parties. Why would BJP be an exception? However, BJP should avoid the INC culture of paradropping leaders - usually dynasty acolytes. Otherwise you won't get leaders like RS, SSC, MP and NM including Yeddy but for his mistakes. I see Advani trying to paradrop leaders. I think he is frustrated (I am sympathetic about it as he made BJP the other pillar of Indian democracy).

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 10 Mar 2013 05:44

disha wrote:And in the interest of transparency, here is a snapshot of the entire Sabarmati River Development Project. Please go through this., I do have an issue with one slide in this presentation in particular (the person who prepared that slide should be kicked around for some gnan, but nothing more).

http://iuc2011.in/sites/default/files/p ... t_comp.pdf

Disha ji

Thanks. That link was a keeper. But what was it that was wrong with it that you mentioned. The History is wrong kya?

Slides beginning from 133-134 show how different spaces have been created/conceived and how they propose these spaces be used by the public. Basically the cost and asset angle.

Slides beginning from 161-162 make it clear how exactly the additional FSI and extra value gets released. Basically the Income angle to support the costs involved.

The original comparison posted by Muppala ji does carry Agra picture. But then it shows only the solid waste around what seems to be like an old ox-bow lake. Rest assured the situation at Kalindi Kunj is much worse. Minus the solid waste but plus the industrial and domestic effluents. This place usually carries 1-2 meters deep foam layer on whatever little water is allowed to flow downstream. It is this layer that causes the stink to spread far and wide. Balls of this soapy foam can be seen rolling around too, breaking off from the main foam body. Actually at Kalindi Kunj there is canal that takes a lot of Yamuna water for irrigation. The bad part is this water is almost equally dirty (only the foam is missing). Its dark and smelly. There is also a big water body towards the other side supposed to be a Pakshi-vihar (mini bird sanctuary). But the water remains the same dark smelly one, entirely unfit for any kind of human usage.

However this still does not detracts from the Moditva brand of workmanship and showmanship. He knows how to sell a vision and how to gather and apply resources. The comparison picture for Sabarmati seems real. The slideshow of developments linked by Disha ji are very much similar if not exactly the same.

.........................

Theo ji,

while there is 3 times more population in Delhi compared to Ahmedabad near the river, you still need to realize that is 3 times more indirect taxation and 3 times more FSI value to be released. Unfortunately the only FSI realized was with the CWG related housing projects which have eaten into the riverfront without adding anything to it. This is ayogic vikas, good only for distribution of spoils among chamchas. If the problems for Delhi are 3 times bigger so are the resources. You remember how the conservative lot, were advising against the CWG games 2 years back. At that time the local people knew the money could have been better spent on civic projects. The misuse and non-use of resources are a bigger crime that Kongis remain accused of. There is just no way to fool all the people all the time.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 10 Mar 2013 05:57

For those who are living in US and Canada please tune to TV Asia. NaMo is going to address the NRI in another 15 minutes (8PM eastern). Currently OFBJP speeches are coming live.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Mar 2013 06:08

^ any link to the live streaming? Searching for it.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Mar 2013 06:08

Muppalla: Any online link?

Rama garu found it: http://www.narendramodi.in/liveevent/10 ... index.html

For jingoes, watch it on you tube, the comments are funny and you get the extra thrill.....