Delhi Case Follow-up thread

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IndraD
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

If you read the judgment you will know why Justice Gaffoor (the fellow judge who is no more) and me had acquitted the accused. Please read the judgment. You will know why the girl was disbelieved, how much time we took to write the judgment," Justice Basant was shown as saying on the channel.

"You should read the judgment and not say things like politicians on the platform for getting applause ... Nobody reads the judgment, you just make comments," he said.

When pointed out that the apex court had expressed "shock" on reading the HC judgment, he said those who have not read the judgment, will be shocked.

"I am not blaming her. The girl is not normal, she is deviant. All these are there in the judgment", Justice Basant said
.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 419584.cms
HC judge defends Suryanelli judgement , calls victim child prostitute, also doubts SC
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by disha »

^^ What the HC judge basant is saying is this : "All deviants minor or not can be exploited". He deserves to taste the IEDology of Pakhanistan ...
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

Can SC act on HC judges like them? Also I want to know why SC sent the matter back to same HC for relook?? Any vakeel out there please??
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

^^ I mean saying that SC has not read the judgement and hence shock-doesn't it amount to contempt of SC??
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by nawabs »

Is India a nation of rapists and killers?

http://newindianexpress.com/magazine/article1453514.ece
The gruesome rape and killing in Delhi in December last year had rightly set the nation on fire. The nation tried in vain to atone for the crime by show of unprecedented frenzy. But in its boiling anger the national mind did lose its balance and capacity for self-analysis. It flagellated itself; shamed its soul. The stentorian chorus led the mission to shame India, imaging the Indian people as misogynists on the whole. With the frenzy subsiding, is it not time to stop self-flagellating and start thinking? The world is asking whether India is a nation of rapists and killers of women. Only facts, not words, can answer this question.

With enthusiastic support from the Indian media, intellectuals and writers, the Western media almost made out India as a semi-barbaric society. An example. Libby Purves wrote in The Times UK that the Delhi bus rape should “shatter our Bollywood fantasies” of heady spirituality, adding that upright Europeans have ignored the Indian culture of “murderous, hyena-like male contempt”. What a certificate for a rising India that the National Intelligence Council of the US in its report released four days before the Delhi rape had predicted India to become one of the three world powers by 2030! An India crying in guilt had almost endorsed Purves. Fortunately for India, a Western woman writer, Emer O’Toole (The Guardian, January 1, 2013) intervened and tore apart Purves and her likes. Emer wrote that Purves and others pontificate, with a sense of cultural superiority, as if rape is something that only happens “over there”—read India— and something the ‘civilised’ West “have somehow put behind”. Emer pointed out that while the BBC reports, as if shocking, the statistics that a woman is raped in Delhi every 14 hours, which equates to 625 a year, in England and Wales which has a population 3.5 times that of Delhi, the proportion is four time larger: 9,509 against Delhi’s 625. Pointing out that The Wall Street Journal decries India for convicting just over a quarter of the alleged rapists, Emer says that, in the US, only 24 per cent of the alleged rapes even result in arrest, never mind conviction. How strange then is the report on India, she wonders.

Ten days later, even Emer’s data was found to be a gross underestimation of rapes in the UK. In an article in The Independent (January 10, 2013) titled “100,000 assaults, 1,000 rapists sentenced. Shockingly low conviction rates revealed”, Nigel Morris wrote: “Fewer than one rape victim in 30 expect to see her or his attacker brought to justice, shocking new statistics reveal.” ‘His’ attackers? Yes. In the West, women also rape men; a tenth of the rapists are women—something still rare in India. Nigel writes: Only 1,070 rapists are convicted every year out of 95,000 offenders according to the Office of National Statistics UK. As 90 per cent of the attackers were, like in India, known to victims, only 15 per cent victims complained—saying it was “too embarrassing”, “too trivial” or “a private/family matter”. While in the UK, a country which has less than 1/20th of India’s population, the total rapes top 95,000, the rapes in India in 2008, according to the report of the Central Statistics Office, Government of India, were far fewer—20,771. The US is similar to the UK. The reported rapes in the US in 2006 were 212,000. If unreported rapes are added, only 5 per cent of rapists ever spend a day in jail in the US (National Center for Policy Analysis US Report No. 229). One of six US women has experienced attempted or completed rape (Colorado Coalition Against Sexual Assault: Statistics). More than a quarter of college-age women reported having experienced a rape or rape attempt since age 14 (Kolivas, Elizabeth; Gross, Alan, 2007). This is not to say that, on the scales of the ‘civilised’ UK, India can tolerate 1.6 million rapes, or on US scale (including unreported rapes) it can accept 3.4 million rapes. This is to point out that even if the UK is ‘less civilised’ like India, its total rapes should not exceed 1,000. And even if the US is as ‘backward’ as India, rapes should not exceed 5,200 there. But in the UK, it is 100 times India’s; and, in the US, it is 65 times India’s. In Norway, the first ranking country in global Human Development Index (HDI), one in 10 women is raped (The New York Times, April 17, 2012). According to the BBC, rape per 100,000 population is the second highest in Sweden which is ranked 10th on the HDI scale and yet as the world’s best place for women! United Nations data shows that in Sweden the rape rate is 63.5 per 100,000. In the US, it is 27.5; but as more than four-fifths of forcible rapes in the US are not reported at all (National Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center Report July 2007), the effective rapes in the US will be more than 137.5 per 100,000! And what is the figure for India? Just 1.8! (See www.unodc.org documents on sexual violence). But, that rapes are far less in India is no matter of pride. It is a national shame even if a single woman is raped. For Indians have traditionally worshipped not only women gods, but women and girls in physical form as well, as gods. The contrast with the West is not to claim any cultural superiority, but only to point out how the Indian and Western writers who have written off India as misogynic have been blind to facts. And turn to the infamous case of four serial gang-rapes in two months in Sydney in 2000. It shook the world, but never made the Australians rapists in the eyes of the world.

More. Even gang-rape does not make news in the ‘developed’ West at times. Emer compares the gang-rape in Delhi with the gang-rape in Steubenville in Ohio in the US, where, in August 2012, a 16-year-old girl was dragged, drunk and unresponsive, from party to party where she was raped allegedly by members of a high school basketball team. Contrasting the brutal Delhi rape and death which spurred Indian civil society to its feet, causing protest and unrest, bringing women and men into streets, with the army and the states of Punjab and Haryana cancelling new year celebrations, Emer says that in Steubenville, sports-crazy townsfolk blamed the victim. But for a blogger Alexandria Goddard, now being sued, exposing it, followed by The New York Times four months after the crime, the US might not have noticed the incident at all.

Still more. The demeaning picture of India is an extension of the long-held view that Indian traditions had made women inferior, and even led to decimating its girl children. Is this true? Look at the facts. The gender ratio in mid-colonial India (1901) was 972 per 1,000; colonialism brought it down to 946 in 1951; modern India did it to a low of 927 in 2001. In 2011, it has improved to 940. And in the most traditional, therefore “backward”, Bihar, the gender ratio in 1901 was 1,061, that is 61 women more than men; as late as in 1961 it was 1,005. And now? 921! Urban India is lower at 924 to rural India’s 947; the ratios of the most modern Mumbai (822) and Delhi (823) are even less. The answer is obvious. The more modern India is, the fewer girls it chooses to have. Who then is to blame for declining sex ratio? Modernity or tradition? Will those who demean India introspect? Will they study the facts before commenting? Are they listening?

Western Blot

The rape record of ‘civilised and developed’ countries

US

44% of victims are under age 18.

80% are under age 30.

Every 2 minutes, someone in the US is sexually assaulted.

There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of

sexual assault each year.

54% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police.

97% of rapists will never spend a day in jail.

Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim.

38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.

UK

Less than one rape victim in 30 can expect to see her or his attacker brought to justice.

About 1,000 rapists are convicted every year.

90 per cent of rape victims said they knew the identity of their attacker.

15 per cent went to the police.

Between 60,000 and 95,000 people are estimated to be raped each year.

About one woman in 200 has been a victim in the last one year.

1 in 38 major sex crime leads to a conviction for the offence.

2 years is the average time taken for a court verdict when the accused contests the allegations.

On January 24, 2011, a Toronto policeman, Constable Michael Sanguinetti, was speaking on crime prevention at a York University safety forum in Toronto, Canada. He said: “I’ve been told I’m not supposed to say this: however, women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised.”

That misogynous comment sparked a protest that grew into a global movement. On April 3, 2011, over 3,000 women protesters walked to Toronto Police Headquarters. Although women were asked to dress in everyday, ordinary wear, many came dressed as ‘sluts’. The organisers, Sonya Barnett and Heather Jarvis, said: “We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault.”

In India, the first ‘Slutwalk Arthaat Besharmi Morcha’ was in Bhopal on July 17, 2011; 50 attended. The next ones were: Delhi on July 31, 2011, and Lucknow on August 21, 2011.

The Common Misunderstandings

“If women really want to, they can always say no”

Many women do indeed say no, but rapists do not listen. Some resist physically and do manage to prevent further assault, others suffer greater injury.

"Real’ rapes are committed by strangers in isolated places”


Most rapes are committed by known men, and in a familiar or private space such as the woman or man’s home, a hotel room, at work.

“Rapists are sick or perverts or sexually frustrated”

There are very few rapists who, when convicted, are diagnosed as having a mental health problem. It is not sexual frustration that underlies their assault, but wanting power and control.

“Only certain types of women get raped”

It used to be thought that only certain ‘types’ of women got raped: women who were sexually active, ‘provocative’, or ‘victims’. In fact, women of all ages and ‘types’ are raped, including children and grandmothers.

“Most complaints of sexual assault are false reports”

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that there are more false complaints of rape than other crimes. And logic suggests that the proportion is probably less than say for theft, often used to support a fraudulent insurance claim.

“Women ask for it by the way they dress or their behaviour”

This argument suggests that women are responsible for sexually arousing men through their dress or ‘flirting’. Implicit within this view is the idea that men cannot control their sexual desires, and also that women should know this and adapt their behaviour accordingly.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by nawabs »

Suryanelli case: PJ Kurien involved, claims an accused

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TO ... 4-NOR.html
Seems like a serious trouble is brewing for Rajya Sabha deputy chairperson PJ Kurien. Reportedly, one of the accused in the Suryanelli gang-rape case has said that Kurien was involved in the case.

According to reports, the third accused in the case – SS Dharmarajan made the claim, while speaking to a local television channel. In a shocking revelation, he said that he took Kurien in his own car to Kumily, where the girl was kept and raped.

Dharmarajan was convicted in the gang-rape case and had been serving jail term. Later he skipped parole and is absconding now.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sachin »

nawabs wrote:Suryanelli case: PJ Kurien involved, claims an accused
This gets interesting. But a few points to note is that:-
1. Dharmarajan was the main accused and have escaped for police custody twice. Even now he is absconding (and is hiding). So dont know how much a of a good witness he would make.
2. PJ Kurien's counter claim is that why bring up his name now? Dharmarajan had every right to level this charge when the court would sound out his comments before giving out the verdict. Dharmarajan kept mum. Kurien also highlighted some provision which kinds of give lesser weightage to a claim made by a person sentenced by the court (because that chap might bring in names, only to cause trouble to others around him).
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by nawabs »

Indian school teacher brutally raped in Maldives

http://post.jagran.com/indian-school-te ... 1360680384
A 24-year-old Indian computer teacher was brutally raped in Maldives and is in "very serious condition", prompting India to take up the matter with Maldivian government.

A young Indian teacher working on the island of Dhangethi in Alif Dhaal Atoll has been hospitalised after a group of people broke into her home on Sunday night and allegedly raped her, Minivan News reported.

The woman is in a "very serious condition" following the attack, Island Council President Azim Adam was quoted as saying.
India has strongly taken up the matter with the Maldivian authorities, official spokesperson in the Ministry of External Affairs in New Delhi.

He said Indian Mission's official in Male have spoken to Maldives' acting Minister for Gender and Family Mariyam Shakeela seeking justice for the victim, a teacher at private computer school.

The Maldivians have assured India that the perpetrators of the crime will be brought to justice.

The official said two Indian officials including a woman officer from the mission met the victim at the hospital. The victim had to undergo blood transfusion.

Meanwhile, Adam said: "They broke in (to her house) around 2:15 AM. I came to know about it at 4:00 AM and I instantly reported it to the police. The girl is now in the atoll hospital in a very serious condition".

A source close to the victim said she was in the hospital's intensive care unit but was "bleeding uncontrollably", the Minivan News said.

"We have put seven pints of blood into her but she is still bleeding. It is a very serious issue. We are planning to send her to India, there is not much more we are able to do here," the source was quoted as saying.

Island Council President Adam said the young woman had been working on the island for less than a month, and described her as a "very kind person who was very friendly towards the local islanders".

Dhangethi is the third largest populated island of Alif Dhaal Atoll, with a population of around 1200 people.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

police harden stand on media gag, threaten to lodge FIR against any one found talking in media about case

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 11224.aspx

A petition seeking sanction to initiate criminal contempt proceedings against former judge of Kerala High Court R Basant, whose controversial remarks on Suryanelli rape case victim has sparked off protests, was filed before the state Advocate General

http://zeenews.india.com/news/kerala/su ... 28442.html
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Prem »

Anoushka Shankar says she was sexually abused
Anoushka Shankar, musician and daughter of the legendary Indian sitar player Ravi Shankar, has admitted she was sexually abused as a child.In a video to support a global campaign to end violence against women - One Billion Rising - she said the abuse had been by "a man my parents trusted". Ms Shankar said she had suffered "groping, touching and verbal abuse".
There has been growing outrage in India at the treatment of women after the fatal gang rape of a woman in December.The One Billion Rising movement was started by American playwright and feminist Eve Ensler to mark the 15th anniversary of the V-day campaign to end violence against women. A number of events have been organised in India on 14 February - the day the campaign is calling for one billion people around the world to rise up against gender-based crimes. In the video, recorded in her London home, Ms Shankar, 31, appealed for people to support the campaign in memory of the 23-year-old gang rape victim. The brutal attack on the physiotherapy student on a Delhi bus led to weeks of protests by thousands of people across India and the world. "As a child I suffered sexual and emotional abuse for several years at the hands of a man my parents trusted implicitly," she said. Ms Shankar added that she was taking
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-21438277
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chaanakya »

Delhi gang-rape trial to take three more months: Lawyers
NEW DELHI: Trial of the five men charged with gang-raping a 23-year-old woman in a moving bus in New Delhi on December 16 will take another three months to conclude, say advocates.

Dayan Krishnan, the special public prosecutor in the case, said that "in another three months, the trial will be complete".

The court was to hear the case daily, but after the judge's father died, the trial has been on hold since Feb 13. It will resume on February 18 (Monday), Krishnan said. The trial, continuing since Feb 5 in a fast track court in Saket in south Delhi, is not being reported as Additional Sessions Judge Yogesh Khanna has restrained the media from reporting the daily hearings.

V K Anand, the lawyer who represents main accused Ram Singh and his brother Mukesh in the court, also said the trial would continue for another three to four months.

"There are so many witnesses that it will certainly take another three to four months to complete the proceedings. Now the court is recording the statements of witnesses, then cross-examinations will begin, followed by final arguments. The procedure probably will be complete in May end," Anand said.

A P Singh, who represents three other accused, Pawan Gupta, Vinay Sharma and Akshay Thakur, also said the judgment would come in two-three months' time.

"There are 80 witnesses in the case. The trial will take another two to three months," Singh said.

The young woman, a physiotherapist trainee, was tortured and gang-raped by five men and a juvenile in a moving bus on December 16. She and her male friend were then thrown off on the road -- bloodied and without clothes.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by chaanakya »

Delhi gang rape: Victim's friend cross-examined by counsel for accused

NEW DELHI: The male friend and the sole eyewitness to the December 16 brutal assault and gang-rape of the victim in a moving bus was cross-examined by the defence in the fast-track court trying the case here on Monday.

The youth, a software engineer, who had testified as a witness for the prosecution during in camera proceedings against the five accused who have pleaded not guilty to the charges of rape and murder framed against them, was today cross-examined by the counsel for accused Pawan Gupta.

His cross-examination will continue on Tuesday.

The victim's friend arrived before additional sessions judge Yogesh Khanna in a wheelchair because of the injuries inflicted on him in the heinous attack of December 16, 2012.

Apart from the victim's friend, three others — including a person who had seen the accused destroying the evidence after commission of the crime — have already deposed in the court.

Meanwhile, the court will tomorrow record the evidence of the youth and four others including the magistrate, who was part of the judicial proceedings relating to the test identification parade (TIP) of the accused.

The 23-year-old girl had died on December 29, 2012 in a Singapore hospital as a result of the grievous injuries she had suffered when she was sexually assaulted by six people, one of whom has been declared as a juvenile.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Prem »

http://www.inquisitr.com/533846/india-t ... in-a-well/
India: Three Young Sisters Raped And Murdered Then Dropped In A Well
Three young sisters from a small, rural village in India have been raped and murdered then dropped into a well.The three girls — aged 11, nine and six — went missing on Valentine’s Day from their home village of Murmadi in Lakhni tehsil after they finished school.The bodies of the sisters were found last week, two days after they went missing in the Bhandara district of Maharashtra state, police superintendent Aarti Singh said.Singh told reporters:“The bodies of the three young girls were found in a well, with their schoolbags and footwears. The post-mortem has confirmed that the girls were raped and then murdered.”As yet, no arrests have been made but the superintendent said four people had been held for questioning and an investigation had been opened.Sky News reports that family members said the girls had gone out to look for their mother and no one heard from them since then.India’s NDTV broadcaster has reported the children’s grandfather as saying they were lured away by strangers who promised them food.The girls, who lost their father four years ago, live in poverty in their home village.News of the deaths has led to protests in the village, echoing those that erupted in the capital New Delhi after the gang rape and murder of a 23-year-old physiotherapy student on a bus in December.
( Culprit/s need Encountering)l
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

^^ It was such a heart breaking news I didn't put it on BR..gosh which way are we heading as society?? Going by confusing and criminal friendly way in which supreme court is working (Verrappan aide's hanging case), I have no idea what is going to come out of 16 dec case
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by fanne »

We are a banana republic
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while interviewing four street-children were told that they were witness to a gang rape involving three cops near some “place of worship.”

Though as per rules, the committee, constituted through a Government of India’s gazette notification, was bound to lodge a formal compliant with the police in this regard, it chose to keep mum fearing for the safety of these kids.

“But we made the exhaustive interview a part of the report to show the deeper malaise in the system… the report is now with the Ministry of Home Affairs and it is they who have to act on it,” Mr. Subramaniam told The Hindu.

Tucked in the ‘Appendices’ of the 631-page report is the detailed transcript of the interview of four trafficked children who are also victims of sexual violence and drug abuse. During their conversation with the committee members, they point to a gang rape where three cops in a PCR van abducted a girl from near a temple situated close to some old, vacant buildings and a ridge.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 432790.ece
A gang rape Delhi policemen got away with?
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by vasu raya »

Delhi gangrape: Singapore hospital doctor deposes as witness through video conferencing

Hopefully, the CCTVs being installed in Police stations, Hospitals and Jails can double as Video conferencing equipment
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

Lilo, Thanks for the End Violence against women feed on Twitter. Is it automated or you have to edit it?

Also how do we get more people to follow it? So far I see a sparse following.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Lilo »

Ramana ji,

@Violenceonwomen is pretty much Automated and i didnt delete a tweet since a month , as occasionally whenever i check much of the timeline seems to have relevant news with very few false positives.

Re: the gaining followers part, those who are really into the women's rights and women's protection issues are inclined to remain as followers i guess - actually that's understandable in a way as few prefer to see depressing news first thing in the morning in their time line . That said, the existence of this feed can be mentioned/pasted in various fora and to people who are inclined to follow these issues. I pasted it as external link in couple of wiki pages you mentioned earlier . Ill paste in more .

Also i ll look up online fora dedicated to such women's rights groups (forums , yahoo/google groups , message boards etc) and try to inform them.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by suryag »

Delhi case prime accuse commits suicide(d)
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by SSridhar »

^ Excellent news whether he committed suicide or he was suicided. Now, I can foresee liberal bleeding hearts to put on a huge dramain liberal newspapers and liberal TV chanels with liberal editors and anchors lambasting the jail authorities with allowing this to happen.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by member_23629 »

India: Three Young Sisters Raped And Murdered Then Dropped In A Well
Forensic tests have ruled out rape in the above case -- Police say it is a case of drowning.

Bhandara case: Forensics rule out rape of 3 minor sisters
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Muppalla »

suryag wrote:Delhi case prime accuse commits suicide(d)
if someone writes an alternative analysis of the events, then those alternative analysis is always derided as some fiction or CT etc on this forum.

Especially on this emotional topic you would have gotten all the brickbats.

Hats of to Lilo who started "EndViolenceAgainstWomen" that actually using RSS lists rapes and other violence against women. It is pathetic in Delhi and surrounding areas to see women getting raped at will by the rapists. Gangrape in a moving car happened again about 48 hours ago. Where is the Delhi's indigenous crowd? Where is the outrage?

Once can brush off that outrage is not possible everytime. That is true. However, it is something that can be orchestrated and the emotions can be exploited.

What the congress party and UPA did about Nirbhay was exactly same. What the UPA government did using Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev was also same on the topic of corruption. This is the reverse swing version of color revolutions in India.

This Ramsingh is a high profile criminal especially Nirbhay is given a bravery award by President. Ram Singh can spill the beans in court and hence he has to commit suicide to save the handlers.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Pranav »

Apparently (as per @Swamy39) the gang rape accused are Congress workers or something which makes it important that they don't talk.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by RamaY »

Delhi rape suspect found dead in prison

Ramanaji, you predicted this. I hope the Juvenile reaches the same end.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by ramana »

Five more to go.

Sorry to sound like Madam Defarge but that is the way it is.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by disha »

Pranav wrote:Apparently (as per @Swamy39) the gang rape accused are Congress workers or something which makes it important that they don't talk.
This (that the accusers were part of the CongI cabal or knew somebody all the way high up the echelon) was already touched upon in this forum long back and the natural conclusion also drawn that they will be "suicided".

Again, IMO this is not justice. Justice should be seen to be done and has to be swift. This is Kangaroo court at best. Shame on Delhi Govt., Delhi Bolis and Delhi Judiciary. They stand in shame.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sanku »

disha wrote:
Pranav wrote:Apparently (as per @Swamy39) the gang rape accused are Congress workers or something which makes it important that they don't talk.
This (that the accusers were part of the CongI cabal or knew somebody all the way high up the echelon) was already touched upon in this forum long back and the natural conclusion also drawn that they will be "suicided".

Again, IMO this is not justice. Justice should be seen to be done and has to be swift. This is Kangaroo court at best. Shame on Delhi Govt., Delhi Bolis and Delhi Judiciary. They stand in shame.
I agree, I am sad, this guy would have hung anyway, at the very minimum. If some had to be sucided it could at least be the "minor" (who is not a minor) -- he likely is going to be a free bird within a year.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Philip »

"Suicided" most likely.Just like the "escape attempt killing" in a similar case somewhere last year.Was there some potential embarrassing info that would come out in court when the accused took to the stand?

In the most sensational criminal case in the country,with global media attention,surely the Tihar authorities/HMinistry were expected to take great precautions to prevent such a happening? The Home Minister should resign for this failure. In S.Africa,we are told that Pistorious is highly suicidal and a special watch is being kept on him.Shame on our authorities for being so casual or are our suspicions well founded?
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by harbans »

Excellent news whether he committed suicide or he was suicided. Now, I can foresee liberal bleeding hearts to put on a huge dramain liberal newspapers and liberal TV chanels with liberal editors and anchors lambasting the jail authorities with allowing this to happen.
Sridhar Ji, i hardly remember ever disagreeing with any of your posts ever. But somehow i do here if it was a murder. Irrespective of what we personally wish for the perpetrators of such crimes, these high profile cases also show case and expose the justice systems. By not having gone through the paces that have been extablished by law, the blemishes exposed will be marginal in this case. When the systems undergoes it's full course in a high profile way, subsequent outrage and corrections within are par for the course. This apart from the fact that a key accused is dead in terms of weakening the prosecution, has many implications. I can think of a dozen ways this can be exploited by the very people we seek to prosecute. Primarily the rest blaming the minor and Ram Singh as the perpetrators and they being at the most passive participants. Ram Singh is dead and the minor gets away. Ironically, the rest too can maybe get away with lesser sentences than those found guilty of suiciding Ram Singh, if an impartial enquiry into this does take place. Then we all can say that justice has not worked, but the cause of it not working in this instance is the sort of gratification we are revelling in this interruption of the due process.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by IndraD »

judiciary is a joke, even such a high profile case could not be solved in a time frame,
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sachin »

harbans wrote:Ram Singh is dead and the minor gets away.
Ram Singh's father is now coming up with a claim that his son cannot commit suicide. He says one hand of Ram Singh is a bit weak (after some accident) and he would not use it effectively. The father says that the son was whining about the very harsh treatment meted out to him in the prison (by other inmates). This was reported in a local Malayalam news paper, so we should wait for a more well known news paper to report it as well.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Lalmohan »

the father claims that ram singh was also repeatedly raped in jail - i guess no one should feel sorry about that too much
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by harbans »

i guess no one should feel sorry about that too much
Ultimately the law must prevail for a state to be effective. If a high profile due process is followed, it also exemplifies the lacunae prevalent. The justice should have been delivered by law not at the hands of some Tihar convict serving 6 years who now enjoys rape and murder. In our primal glee let us not forget what price the nation may have to pay for such kind of short cuts. No the sadness is not for Ram Singh being dead or sodomized. It is for that has been done to the due process of law however flawed that may be.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Lalmohan »

harbans - you are right, and i agree with you.
however, he would have received similar treatment from other inmates had he been in the US or in Scandinavia (where the prison regime is very liberal) - so in a sense, it is possible to see the way 'natural justice' works
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by shiv »

suryag wrote:Delhi case prime accuse commits suicide(d)
Well, to be fair. He was on a suicide watch in jail. They watched while he committed suicide. What about that 16/17 year old. Has he been suicided yet?
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by harbans »

He was on a suicide watch in jail. They watched while he committed suicide.
Nice one. :D
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Philip »

Reality show too?
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Baikul »

harbans wrote:
Excellent news whether he committed suicide or he was suicided. Now, I can foresee liberal bleeding hearts to put on a huge dramain liberal newspapers and liberal TV chanels with liberal editors and anchors lambasting the jail authorities with allowing this to happen.
Sridhar Ji, i hardly remember ever disagreeing with any of your posts ever. But somehow i do here if it was a murder. Irrespective of what we personally wish for the perpetrators of such crimes, these high profile cases also show case and expose the justice systems. By not having gone through the paces that have been extablished by law, the blemishes exposed will be marginal in this case. When the systems undergoes it's full course in a high profile way, subsequent outrage and corrections within are par for the course. This apart from the fact that a key accused is dead in terms of weakening the prosecution, has many implications. I can think of a dozen ways this can be exploited by the very people we seek to prosecute. Primarily the rest blaming the minor and Ram Singh as the perpetrators and they being at the most passive participants. Ram Singh is dead and the minor gets away. Ironically, the rest too can maybe get away with lesser sentences than those found guilty of suiciding Ram Singh, if an impartial enquiry into this does take place. Then we all can say that justice has not worked, but the cause of it not working in this instance is the sort of gratification we are revelling in this interruption of the due process.
I agree wholeheartedly harbans ji.

The flash of vindication I felt on hearing the news does not negate what you said.

There are other implications as well; if we are to assume that justice is served in this case with the man being suicided, how will we argue when from here on when an innocent gets suicided a few months or years from now? The justice system exists to protect the innocent as much to punish the guilty.

I know our legal system is moribund, but I cannot get behind extra judicial justice.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by harbans »

how will we argue when from here on when an innocent gets suicided a few months or years from now?
Yes i thought of that. Imagine an influential politicians son involved in a rape and murder. Cops arrest a person and then suicide him in prison. The world thinks justice has been done for a heinous crime, yet it is possible that an innocent has been murdered and the real culprit is still at large. The logical end of this kind of 'justice' is exactly this scenario. I also think this will not go down well with Jyoti's family.
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