Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2013 11:46

in 2005 I had flown in and out of chennai a few times. at that time HAL apt was in use and was about to collapse. 2 proper luggage belts and 1 short belt along the wall made for madness in the evening and morning rush hours.
the driveway used to get clogged and people incl my wife had to abandon the car and cart a couple of suitcases upto 1 km to make it inside terminal in time for checkin.

BIAL isnt perfect but leagues ahead of the situation you describe. among the ransom paid to AAI to get them to agree to pvtization elsewhere was the Kolkata and chennai airports.

I wonder how kolkata is doing nowadays? is the Hindustan ambassador mark IV still on static display in one corner of the terminal? everytime I fly via CCU can see employment generation by getting people to manually cut the grass near the runways and taxiways...by the time they finish the grass has grown back at other end..and so it goes on...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 12 Mar 2013 12:10

Singha wrote:I wonder how kolkata is doing nowadays?

Had flown out of Kolkotha to Bhutan in the end of year 2011. And this was an international flight, so took for from that part of the airport. It was most unclean, and even had seats/chairs with torn cushions, and sponge strewn around. The staff had a non-chalant attitude and not even a trace of shame (when they known that non-Indians also would be using this frequently). The building itself looked old and dilapidated.

PS: To be honest, the city did not look much different from the Air port. I have been encouraging many a commie intellectual in 100% literate state to have a trip to the other commie paradise we have out there

.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Mar 2013 12:40

PS: To be honest, the city did not look much different from the Air port. I have been encouraging many a commie intellectual in 100% literate state to have a trip to the other commie paradise we have out there .

Ah. But Kochi, the main gateway into Kerala (straight to the backwaters for all the furrin tourists), is private and a pretty decent, albeit small airport. TVM airport is a typical AAI dump. So the commie intellectuals can rail at the " blood sucking private interests" in leisure at Kochi, while enjoying the fruits of it all the same.

It is only when it bites them in the a**, like it does in Kolkata , they shut up. Chennai deserves better, but the DMK bandicoots stopped the privatisation there and made it an AAI affair to safeguard their union interests.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Mar 2013 15:06

Some more info on the Chennai ATC fire - The Hindu

A fire broke out in the Air Traffic Control tower at the Chennai airport in the early hours of Tuesday after batteries in a power back-up system burst, airport officials said.

Airport sources said similar incidents have taken place in the Mumbai and New Delhi airport towers. In Mumbai, in 2007, batteries of the uninterrupted power supply system caught fire. One more such incident was reported in New Delhi a couple of months ago, said the airport sources. {So, one has to infer that it was OK for Chennai too ?}

Batteries of the uninterrupted power supply system should be kept separately in a room with proper ventilation facilities to avoid such accidents, officials familiar with their operation said. {So, why was it not done ?}

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Mar 2013 23:59

Airbus’s Leahy Expects A320NEO Sales To Surpass 2,000 Within Weeks

With several active single-aisle campaigns under way in Europe, Airbus predicts its A320NEO orderbook will exceed 2,000 aircraft by the end of March.

Airbus currently has 1,878 firm orders for the A320NEO, but Airbus Chief Operating Officer-Customers John Leahy, speaking at the ISTAT Americas 2013 Conference in Orlando, Fla., says, “I’d hazard a guess we’ll be over 2,000” by the end of the month.

Leahy adds that deliveries of current-generation A320s with the Sharklet winglet are stepping up but are “production constrained.” As a result, about half of the deliveries scheduled for 2013, some 200 aircraft, will have the new wing tip structure, which reduces fuel burn about 4%.

The volume steps up next year, and Leahy expects 100% of deliveries to be Sharklet-equipped in 2014.

Leahy says he remains “happy” with sales of the A350 equipped with the Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engine, but adds Airbus is open to an approach from Pratt & Whitney on a possible geared turbofan variant for the A350-800/900 versions. Rolls is the sole-source engine provider with its XWB-97 variant for the A350-1000.

Airbus’s chief salesman adds, however, that there will be no re-engined A330NEO offered against Boeing’s 787. “We keep looking at whether it is worthwhile doing an A330NEO. I just don’t want to adjust what we have going on now. Admittedly, we’re taking advantage of lower capitalization costs—if you want to put a couple of billion dollars into re-engining all of a sudden you have to amortize that. It’s probably better that we stay off where we are now,” says Leahy, adding that some 800 A330s have been sold since the 787 was launched.

Kannan · Post by **Kannan** » 13 Mar 2013 04:30

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/09/ ... nd-at-jfk/

Oops!

Austin wrote:Yes that HUD , its common these days on most modern Civil passenger and Military transport aircraft.

I guess the idea is when you are landing or taking off all the critical data is presented on the HUD so that you dont have to look down on the LCD of cockpit , its also integrated with FLIR so you can look out in bad weather with clear visibility

I don't think it is common at all, nor is the synthetic vision. I've seen it once though and it is nice, but if it's that bad they may as well use autoland and log one for currency. I'd be interested in knowing if there is an actual country that modifies minima or an approach based on synthetic vision.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 13 Mar 2013 08:18

FAA gives permission to Boeing to test its fix for the battery fire problems. Article in Chicago Sun-times.
http://www.suntimes.com/business/188009 ... r-fix.html
FAA has not found a root cause for the short circuit. Improvements by Boeing include better insulation and fire-proofing of the battery cells, a venting system for smoke etc. Two planes have been approved for test flights, one for testing the battery and one for some engine testing. http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... x/1982935/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Mar 2013 11:28

Dileep wrote:In the future, airliner cockpits will be occupied by a crew of one man and one dog.

The man's job will be just to monitor that anything goes OK, and yeah! feed the dog too.

The dog's job will be to make sure that the man won't touch anything

Dileep Brother , I am not sure if you have a crystal ball to look into the future but Civil Aircraft ( atleast up to 100 seater ) will be in future possibly operated by single pilot , infact the latest 100 seater are being designed to be flown by Single Pilot ( atleast the SSJ can )

They would train selected Flight Crew member to take over the aircraft in emergency and safely land it , the sophistication that go into aircraft these days should make it possible to automatically navigate and land it.

So If not the Dog then you have Cabin Crew who can substitute the pilot in emergency while in most situation a single pilot can fly the aircraft

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 13 Mar 2013 11:38

they could have some automation , or some kind of emegency switch to do auto land in case of some situation

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 13 Mar 2013 12:07

Disaster Management Drills Came Handy For Staff Who Restored System Quickly

V Ayyappan | TNN

It was 2.20am. Air traffic controllers (ATC) in Chennai sat on the third floor of their building, closely watching the blips that are planes. Five flights were headed towards the airport for landing. Peak hour was yet to start. Many were ready to complete their night watch and hand over controls to their colleagues an hour later. But, their world turned upside down when smoke started to billow out of air-conditioning vents on the floor.

A fire alarm went off and air traffic control equipment including the radars were shut down, but not before radioing pilots about the emergency. A ‘notam’ (notice to airmen) was issued and airlines were told to delay arrivals and departures till the ATC was restored.
Once the ATC in Bangalore took over the job of guiding the five incoming aircraft, the 60 men and women at Chennai ATC practiced a contingency plan which they had been trained repeatedly to execute. They restored the traffic control system by 5am, just two-andhalf hours after it was shut down and the floor was evacuated.

A battery of the uninterrupted power system, that was the third back up for the Advance Surface Movement Guidance and Control System, had caught fire and exploded. The battery system that exploded was immediately isolated from other equipment to prevent damage to sensitive machines. A few air traffic controllers were communicating with pilots of overflying aircrafts over high frequency communication system.
Hence, Chennai did not completely lose contact with flights. Bangalore handled the diverted flights because the airport does not have much traffic between 2.30am and 5am. Bangalore air traffic controllers made frantic calls to Chennai to request not to divert more flights when their peak traffic began at 6am. Chennai controllers who entered the building by 4.30am managed to partially restore the system– air traffic control system, radar and automation.

They worked in soot-coated consoles, ignoring an overpowering smell of smoke. “We had to wipe out soot and work to restore traffic. There was no damage to equipment,” said an air traffic controller. The corridors had turned black from the smoke. “We cannot abandon the floor because flights need to be brought in for landing,” he added.

HANDLING A CRISIS As The Blaze Spread

2.20am | Air traffic control operators smell something burning on third floor of the ATC tower
2.30am | Smoke spreads through airconditioning vents
2.30am to 2.40am | Source of fire detected and emergency plan activated. Chennai air traffic control shut down. Third floor evacuated
2.40am | Fire, caused by a battery overheating, extinguished
3am | Rescue team restores lights and lets out smoke
3am to 4.30am | Air traffic controllers keep their counterparts updated as staff enter building, restore systems
5am | Area control centre and radar partially restored
5.08am | Flight to Hong Kong allowed to take off. Five domestic departures follow
5.10am to 7.30am | Automation systems partially restored
7.45am | Doha-Chennai flight lands at Chennai airport
9am | All air traffic control systems restored to normalcy

Departures Held Up

Scheduled departure
Chennai-Hong Kong, Cathay Pacific (3.15am) |
Chennai-Dubai, Emirates (3.30am) |
Chennai-London, British Airways (4am) |
Chennai-Sharjah, Air Arabia (3.40am) |
Chennai-Colombo, Sri Lankan Airlines (3am) |
Chennai-Port Blair, Air India (7.10am)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2013 10:59

Embraer great company to emulate , Profit soars for the company

Embraer 2012 profit triples to $348m

Embraer's full-year net profit for 2012 more than tripled to $348 million from a year ago.

The Brazilian airframer recorded a 6.46% increase in revenue to $6.18 billion for the year ended 31 December 2012. Its operating profit meanwhile almost doubled to $612 million.

In its fourth quarter, Embraer posted a net profit of $123 million, a reversal from a loss of $91.8 million in the same period a year ago. Revenue for the quarter, however, dipped by 6.17% to $1.9 billion while operating profit hit $228 million.

The airframer's earnings before interest and tax (EBIT) margin for 2012 was 9.9%, surpassing its forecast of between 9.0% and 9.5%.

"These results demonstrate the company's strong operating leverage, which comes as a result of the high revenue generation in the last quarter of the year, allowing the company to maximise the utilisation of its installed capacity and dilute fixed costs in a more efficient manner," says Embraer.

In the last quarter of the year, the airframer delivered 23 commercial and 53 executive jets, bringing its total deliveries in 2012 to 106 commercial and 99 executive aircraft.

It added that the improvement in its net margin from 2.1% in 2011 to 5.6% in 2012 was mainly because the 2011 figure was negatively impacted by provisions related to financial guarantees connected to the American Airlines Chapter 11 restructuring process.

Embraer's firm order backlog totalled $12.5 billion at the end of 2012.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2013 11:03

Sukhoi is launching Long Range version of SSJ

long range Superjet set for launch

Sukhoi has designed the 100LR to operate over a 2,470nm (4,570km) range, 50% greater than that of the basic airframe.

The LR will have a maximum take-off weight of 49.5t, compared with 45.9t for the basic. It will also have uprated PowerJet SaM146-1S18 engines, generating an additional 5% thrust and better climb performance. It has the same fuel tanks and the landing gear has not needed strengthening, says Sukhoi.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2013 21:57

A320 NEO is gaining and doing well , Just reengine an aircraft with 5th Gen engine and get 15 % saving in fuel consumption .........I think the time is here now where Engine would drive the civil aircraft market when it comes to economy.

Pratt & Whitney Readies For A320NEO Engine Flight Tests

Some 112 hours of ground tests already have been conducted at Pratt’s West Palm Beach, Fla., site and the engine “performed well,” says VP-Next Generation Products Family Bob Saia. Speaking at the ISTAT Americas 2013 conference in Orlando, Fla., Saia says Pratt also decided to take advantage of lessons learned on the first engine by making minor design adjustments on the second engine before it began ground tests.

The PW1100G is due to be certified early in the third quarter of 2014, and should power the A320NEO for its initial test flight shortly afterward. Pratt currently has about 1,150 PW1100G engines on firm order for the A320NEO, or slightly under half the overall market that has so far selected an engine. The PW1100G competes with CFM International’s Leap-1A, which is due to run for the first time in the third quarter.

The first Pratt-powered NEO is planned to enter service in October 2015.

The PW1100G is expected to fly on the Boeing 747SP flying testbed in the second quarter of 2013, and is one of eight test engines in the program. The first flight-compliant production engines are set to begin assembly in late 2013 to support the Airbus flight test and certification effort. This is scheduled to include four aircraft—two A320s, one A319 and an A321.

Pratt “initially targeted a 12% reduction in fuel burn,” with the GTF but now will achieve 15%, says Saia, adding that the expected performance benefits are reflected in the market penetration of the engine. The announcement of the PW1700G/1900G variants for Embraer’s second-generation E-Jet series in January marked the fifth application for the PW1000G series after Bombardier’s CSeries, the A320NEO, Mitsubishi Regional Jet (MRJ) and Irkut’s MS-21 project.

“We have just over 3,000 engines on order, and we’re ecstatic,” says Saia. “Overall, we have now tested 15 engines and accumulated 4,500 hours of testing and 450 hours in flight.” Following delivery of the first shipset of PW1500Gs to Bombardier for the CSeries, Pratt is “now building four production engines” in readiness for the start of flight tests of the aircraft later this year.

The PW1200G for the MRJ also is “fully designed and about to start certification tests. It will be certificated [Part 33 engine clearance] in 2014,” he adds.

Also speaking at ISTAT, VP-MRJ Sales and Marketing Masao Yamagami says first flight of the MRJ is expected “later this year with entry-into-service in 2015.” The manufacturer expects the aircraft to be significantly quieter than current-generation regional jets. It predicts the MRJ70 will be 19 dB quieter than a similarly sized CRJ, while the MRJ90 is expected to be 16.8 dB quieter.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Mar 2013 23:28

I think the time is here now where Engine would drive the civil aircraft market when it comes to economy.

True. And there are only 3 manufacturers making cutting edge civilian aircraft engines now. GE, PW and RR. They are already having a windfall.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Mar 2013 22:51

nachiket wrote:True. And there are only 3 manufacturers making cutting edge civilian aircraft engines now. GE, PW and RR. They are already having a windfall.

Yes that is true and I agree , it is a very attractive proposition to re-engine an aircraft with new 5th gen engines and get a flat 12-15 % fuel reduction in return .....the order books of A320NEO and 737MAX will tell you customers are all game for it , it is far less expensive compared to building a new aircraft and time to market is also quicker.

A new aircraft with more modern aerodynamics layout and materials like advanced composite can may be give a 3-5 % more gain but the time , money , risk and effort can be a lot higher viz a viz gain , so the law of diminishing returns comes into play.

Much like A320 and 737 it wont be surprising if 10 years down the line aircraft like 777,A380, Dreamliner and A350X are offered with 6th Gen Turbofan engine with even better fuel efficiency which is rated at 20-25 %

After all till such time they figure out a cost effective way to make supersonic air travel for mass transport , the subsonic transport development has peaked out, yes there are some research from NASA to make something like flying wings design for 2050 but thats still very far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2013 23:17

wasnt there an experiment by british airways to run a 747 on LNG or ethanol?

manish · Post by **manish** » 16 Mar 2013 09:04

Austin wrote:
Much like A320 and 737 it wont be surprising if 10 years down the line aircraft like 777,A380, Dreamliner and A350X are offered with 6th Gen Turbofan engine with even better fuel efficiency which is rated at 20-25 %

The larger, heavier 777X (that would be one heck of a beast!) is apparently about to go formally into development. Boeing's board is expected to issue Authority To Offer (ATO) for the 777X as early as April per reports.

The expectations are that the monster would have an even more powerful version of the massive GE-90 engines dubbed GE-9X and is expected to enter service by 2019.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2013 10:41

looks like the same airframe designs could serve us for next 50 years.

manish · Post by **manish** » 16 Mar 2013 11:16

Singha wrote:looks like the same airframe designs could serve us for next 50 years.

Think of the B737 - the first version took to the skies in 1967! And in the form of the 737MAX it will live on easily for another 3 or 4 decades if not more once it starts flying by the middle of this decade.

Even the A320 which was the first commercial FBW jetliner is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 17 Mar 2013 10:04

Turkish Airlines to buy upto 117 planes from Airbus, with deliveries between 2015 & 2020.

Most of the orders are for more fuel efficient planes in the A320 stable including the bestselling A320neo which is due for delivery in late 2015.

Unlike other ailing carriers in Europe, Turkish Airlines is in an aggressive push to become a global airline player, putting itself in direct competition with Middle Eastern rivals Emirates and Qatar Airways.

In December, the airline passed orders for 15 long-haul A330 planes from Airbus and 15 777-300ER from Boeing. In February the airline followed up with a firm order for two more A330-300s.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Mar 2013 11:22

manish wrote:The larger, heavier 777X (that would be one heck of a beast!) is apparently about to go formally into development. Boeing's board is expected to issue Authority To Offer (ATO) for the 777X as early as April per reports.

The 777 is most certainly a big beast , I was standing on a busy high way and that path was also one used for landing during that day in Mumbai , A 777 passed over my head very low ( may be 100 m ) and i couldnt even hear it pass as the traffic noise was perhaps much higher and the only thing made me realise there was an aircraft over my head was a huge shadow it created on the land.

777 are just just big but also quite , its an experience to watch it fly. Are 777 bigger then 747 in size ?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 Mar 2013 11:41

Austin wrote: 777 are just just big but also quite , its an experience to watch it fly. Are 777 bigger then 747 in size ?

Nope the 747 is still the queen of the skies. The A380 is the 1000lb gorilla of course. And I think I know the spot you are talking about. Right on the western express highway in Mumbai in Santa Cruz. They land on runway 09-27 in the opposite direction these days. It is quite a sight. I was quite confused when my aircraft landed in that direction when I came there earlier this year. I was used to seeing plenty of slums on the approach path. Not Juhu beach. May be that's why they changed the approach. So first time visitors to Mumbai don't feel like they are landing on top of slums.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Mar 2013 12:10

No not on the Western Express Highway but on the Andheri Flyover that connects East-West , You can just stand on that flyover and watch planes land during the day on few days of the week , I during during the day the landing is from Juhu side and during the night its from the other side.

I admit landing in Mumbai is not a pleasant experience all you see mostly are slums and highway and thats not going to change any time soon ..... not until you have the New International Airport at Navi Mumbai.

On a more positive note even those slums would cost any where between 10-20 lacs depending on where these are based , so even the slum dwellers here are lakh pati

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 17 Mar 2013 16:43

Austin wrote: and during the night its from the other side.

was wondering on how can they land at night from juhu side. That clears it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Mar 2013 05:30

Some update on PD-14 Engine ( via Jo Asakura )

Late last month PM Dimitry Medvedev toured FGUP 'TsIAM' (ФГУП "ЦИАМ), he is presented with their polymer composite compressor fan blade [below left] as an alternative to the current wide-chord, hollow titanium alloy (VT-6\VT-8-1) blade for the PD-14 engine. It is envisioned that the later PD-14M will utilise the CF polymer composite blade.

the composite engine cowling for the PD-14, displayed at an engine expo last year

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Mar 2013 16:27

Record order for Airbus worth $24 billion

Lion Air unveils order for over 230 Airbus jets

Indonesian carrier Lion Air is ordering 234 Airbus twinjets, including 174 from the re-engined A320neo family.

Its firm agreement covers 109 A320neo and 65 A321neo, and will also feature 60 current A320 jets.

They will be delivered over 2014-26. Airbus values the agreement at $24 billion at catalogue prices.

"The fuel-efficient A320 Family will enable Lion Air to achieve the lowest possible operating costs and continue to offer the most competitive fares in the Asian region," says Lion Air chief Rusdi Kirana.

"This landmark order will ensure that the Lion Air group will continue its expansion with one of the most modern and advanced fleets in the world."

Lion Air has been a loyal Boeing customer, and had previously unveiled a deal for over 200 737 Max aircraft, as part of an agreement for up to 380 737s.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Mar 2013 17:10

Chinese have their own plans for 150-170 Seater Aircraft with C919 program

C919 Program

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Mar 2013 09:07

Big Order for Boeing 737-800 and 737MAX confirmed totaling 275 Aircraft from Irish low-cost carrier Ryanair

Ryanair expects to sign 737 Max deal by end-year
Ryanair to order 175 more 737-800s

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 21 Mar 2013 09:37

Cool branding moves IndiGo from a budget airline to a preferred business carrier

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 21 Mar 2013 10:23

We need more airlines like Indigo. Their experience is top class and they have a quirky sense of humour across their messaging -- everything from the stair ramps into the plane to the food cartons in-flight have a funny message printed on them. They are like Southwest with confirmed seat numbers (which is a good thing).

Ironic that the US and India now have the same number of large domestic carriers -- American, Delta, United and Southwest in the US (75% of the market), and Jet, Indigo, Spicejet and Air India in India -- even though the US market is several times larger.

Traveling from the Bay Area to Austin on a recent US trip I was reminded again of how domestic flying in India is now comparable to or better than in the US in most respects -- shorter security lines, no taking off your shoes, no X-ray imaging, good airport facilities, and flight attendants with infinitely better attitude. Southwest is a rare exception in the US where the FAs are actually friendly rather than perpetually having a bad day.

I hope the government does not continue to hobble this very promising industry in India with their backward policies of high taxes and preferential treatment to Air India.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Mar 2013 10:41

As someone who has been flying around the country extensively for past 2-years now, I can say with 100% confidence that IndiGo is the best out there. Followed by Jet and GoAir.

While making my travel plans, I make it a point to check timing and availability of IndiGo flight...their ground staff is courteous, efficient and takes their job seriously. Their biggest strength is being on time. And going by the dark suited fellows traveling in the early morning flights on all the main sectors - Del-Mum/Del-Bnglr and other way around, one can make out that the business traveler prefers the airline.

In flight menu is a delight (even if you have to pay for it). And I love the small quirky messages and stories and naming on the packaging of their food items. If you have an eye for it, all that stuff teach you about branding and brand recall hits you in the middle. Have bought couple of mementos (like scale A320 model and bag) during the flights. Pity they don't have frequent flier programme or would have for sure become premium customer.

Jet seems to have pulled their act together...again, good efficient staff and in-flight menu has improved drastically. Fresh and better choices. GoAir is also efficient though less glamorous. Spicejet feels like state bus transport company with planes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2013 12:08

indigo sent a flyer email today. with flight u can book pickup / dropoff/ all day cab hire in one shot.
nice and fills a real user need.

KF would never have thought of it...probably splashed money on a get drunk lounge with stanley sofas or some exorbitant merc dropoff for 1st class pax.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Mar 2013 13:12

rohitvats wrote:As someone who has been flying around the country extensively for past 2-years now, I can say with 100% confidence that IndiGo is the best out there. Followed by Jet and GoAir.

While making my travel plans, I make it a point to check timing and availability of IndiGo flight...their ground staff is courteous, efficient and takes their job seriously. Their biggest strength is being on time. And going by the dark suited fellows traveling in the early morning flights on all the main sectors - Del-Mum/Del-Bnglr and other way around, one can make out that the business traveler prefers the airline.

In flight menu is a delight (even if you have to pay for it). And I love the small quirky messages and stories and naming on the packaging of their food items. If you have an eye for it, all that stuff teach you about branding and brand recall hits you in the middle. Have bought couple of mementos (like scale A320 model and bag) during the flights. Pity they don't have frequent flier programme or would have for sure become premium customer.

Jet seems to have pulled their act together...again, good efficient staff and in-flight menu has improved drastically. Fresh and better choices. GoAir is also efficient though less glamorous. Spicejet feels like state bus transport company with planes.

Rohit,
I briefly headed Marketing & Commercial operations at Go Air (the only time in my 20 year career, I moved out of FMCG/Retail). The points you mention are also the reasons why Indigo is the only profitable airline in the country today.
For e.g. research among Indian customers shows that being on-time is as important as low fares and more important than anything else. Although other airlines do occasionally match Indigo's excellent on-time performance, only Indigo advertises it with single minded focus and are therefore branded the `on-time' airline.

They also took the decision very early, not to offer hot meals (facilities to heat meals, increase the weight of the aircraft and therefore fuel consumption), in contrast to Spice Jet's advertising of `enjoy hot Indian meals'. It also reduced service time.
Frequent flyer programs cost money and all Airlines end up doing (at least in India) is give additional discounts to corporate travellers
(whose companies anyway avail discounts from airlines). I started a loyalty program at Go Air, which is aimed at individuals who buy direct from the company web site (giving the customer part of the discount which would otherwise go to the portal or agent).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Mar 2013 20:05

Deans, as a high level insider, what is your take on why KF failed on the same routes, airports, fuel, taxes and planes as the other airlines are still operating on?

what aspect of their operating cost was high? over staffed? higher pay?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Mar 2013 20:15

Singha wrote:Deans, as a high level insider, what is your take on why KF failed on the same routes, airports, fuel, taxes and planes as the other airlines are still operating on?

what aspect of their operating cost was high? over staffed? higher pay?

Diverted and disinterested top management.

Entirely middle management run starting right from the all important merger with Deccan. Every middle management moron had a personal agenda of getting rid of all the Deccan Guys he could find. They succeeded very well and went down the crapper as they never made a single days profit during their entire operation.

Overpaid (in all depts) and callous staff in most departments.

Certainly over staffed. All raja and no praja.

many many Sticky fingers.

No proper oversight and control on expenditure at any level right up to the very last days.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Mar 2013 20:47

Deans wrote:
Rohit,

I briefly headed Marketing & Commercial operations at Go Air (the only time in my 20 year career, I moved out of FMCG/Retail). The points you mention are also the reasons why Indigo is the only profitable airline in the country today.
For e.g. research among Indian customers shows that being on-time is as important as low fares and more important than anything else. Although other airlines do occasionally match Indigo's excellent on-time performance, only Indigo advertises it with single minded focus and are therefore branded the `on-time' airline.

They also took the decision very early, not to offer hot meals (facilities to heat meals, increase the weight of the aircraft and therefore fuel consumption), in contrast to Spice Jet's advertising of `enjoy hot Indian meals'. It also reduced service time.
Frequent flyer programs cost money and all Airlines end up doing (at least in India) is give additional discounts to corporate travellers
(whose companies anyway avail discounts from airlines). I started a loyalty program at Go Air, which is aimed at individuals who buy direct from the company web site (giving the customer part of the discount which would otherwise go to the portal or agent).

Thanks for the insight.

Yes, now that you have mentioned it, they always say the meal is at room temperature. I generally take sandwiches (or, airwiches as they call it on IndiGo)...and this part skipped me completely. In fact, some time back, saw an interview of their top guys who said they were even contemplating removing hot beverage from the menu...but lost out by a thin margin on the vote.

You're bang on the 'On-Time' aspect. As a policy, we are expected to take the first flight out and last flight in when going to other cities. IndiGo has the perfect time slots for both the categories in almost all airports. Our in house travel desk has standing instructions to first check for availability of IndiGo flight.

During the winter season this time, we did check which all airlines have CAT III planes and crew...and GoAir was prominently marketing this aspect. I don't know about IndiGo but other player in town with this capability is Air India and I generally avoid them like plague.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Mar 2013 00:55

Not quite common to see two IL-96PU ferrying the president and prime minister at the same time ......interesting thing is they apply all 4 reverse thrusters after landing , there is IL-62M there for company , no aircraft pooling concept

http://youtu.be/PpRHUdcBx_w

Wonder if you feel churn in your stomach when aircraft applies reverse thrusters since speed is suddenly reduced more drastically then say applying your normal airbrakes and let it run for some time before it slows down

manish · Post by **manish** » 24 Mar 2013 21:10

Austin wrote:Big Order for Boeing 737-800 and 737MAX confirmed totaling 275 Aircraft from Irish low-cost carrier Ryanair

Ryanair expects to sign 737 Max deal by end-year
Ryanair to order 175 more 737-800s

Rumour has it that RyanAir got as much as 50-60% discount on list prices for the older -800 variants. One heck of a deal. Such deals by Boeing and Airbus on their older single aisle models are choking Bombardier and its promising C Series near to death.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Mar 2013 23:00

Austin wrote:Not quite common to see two IL-96PU ferrying the president and prime minister at the same time ......interesting thing is they apply all 4 reverse thrusters after landing , there is IL-62M there for company , no aircraft pooling concept

http://youtu.be/PpRHUdcBx_w

Wonder if you feel churn in your stomach when aircraft applies reverse thrusters since speed is suddenly reduced more drastically then say applying your normal airbrakes and let it run for some time before it slows down

Applying all reverse thrusters upon landing, simultaneously, is now a standard operating practice incorporated by all Aircraft manufacturing Industry in its manual.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Mar 2013 11:16

chaanakya wrote:
Austin wrote:Not quite common to see two IL-96PU ferrying the president and prime minister at the same time ......interesting thing is they apply all 4 reverse thrusters after landing , there is IL-62M there for company , no aircraft pooling concept

http://youtu.be/PpRHUdcBx_w

Wonder if you feel churn in your stomach when aircraft applies reverse thrusters since speed is suddenly reduced more drastically then say applying your normal airbrakes and let it run for some time before it slows down
Applying all reverse thrusters upon landing, simultaneously, is now a standard operating practice incorporated by all Aircraft manufacturing Industry in its manual.

If you watch it carefully the first aircraft when Medvedev lands applies all 4 reverse thrusters upon landing where the second one immediately after some time in which putin lands does not apply any reverse thrusters.

The only logical reason i got is that the first aircraft could be heavier.

But you are right its now standard to apply reverse thruster , I have seen A-380 applying reverse thrusters on two of its engine as a matter of SOP immediately after landing.