Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2013 03:19

There is something odd about the Delhi Rape case. The ferocity of the incident, the lackadiasical police bandobast during the rape, the beating up of the protestors and the extreme precautions in covering up the accused faces and yet the death of Ram Singh in an occupied jail cell all point to some background political connections.

Ram Singh was allowed to hang to silence him.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 03:41

As far as rhetoric is concerned, some suggestions for BJP leadership:

a) Don't use polarizing rhetoric. Always use inclusive rhetoric. Hindu-Muslim Bhai-Bhai!

b) Use governance, progress, development as the election platform. Don't use Hindutva.

c) As much as possible, do speak of the Bharatiya Sabhyata and Sanskriti as inspiring and progressive.

d) When in power, then start building Bharat brick by brick for the Dharmics!

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Mar 2013 03:46

Sanku wrote:I know for a fact that UC's in most of east UP and Bihar are strongly pro-Modi. So at least some of my information is at odds with the above.

.

Little bit of history is needed here. When Brits arrived in Cow belt they will reward those who came forward and work with/for them and severely punish those who opposed them. For example, one of my relative Bandhu Singh (http://about-history.blogspot.ca/2012/0 ... emple.html ) sacrificed 24-25 Goras in 1857 in front of Bhawani's Moorti. Later he was caught and hanged publicly. This colluding group got upper hand due to their prximity to power of the day while rebel group of UCs (although much bigger in number) became poor due to denial of opportunities for obvious reasons. But those who colluded were reviled and never got respect of masses until MG arrived with Congress. After him everybody become freedom fighter and colluding UCs become respectable Con leaders post 47.

If you take survey of Eastern UP-western Bihar you will find that UCs from all those places who didn't stood by Kunwar Jagadish Singh in 1857 were rewarded in the form of JAmindari, post in Brit administration etc while those from rebel group would be treated as savages. As late as 70s and 80s Thakurs (in the lineage of rebel UCs mentioned above) avoid marrying their son's or daughters to the families of this colluding group.

It is this group of UCs (as con leaders) who were controlling everything until 1989 in UP and Bihar when Mandal-Kamandal and BSP threw their apple cart into roadside ditch. This group is a biggest opponent of Modi. This group by its DNA anti-Indic and needs to be removed from cow-belt. Those poor UCs (be it Brahmins, Thakurs, Lalas )always support and stand by Dharma no matter who gives the call.

What i am saying is best explained by the Tripathi brothers (Kamlapati and Karunapati) of Varanasi. One was corrupt (Ajamil type) while another was just normal Brahmin (Sudama type). Another example is Singh brothers (Arjun and Sajjan) of the state of Rewa MP.

Not to mention that "Windbag" was favorite leader of this cancerous UC group.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 03:52

RajeshA garu

If BJP does a and first half of b then it will not come to power to do d.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 13 Mar 2013 03:57

RamaY

Not everyone thinks like you.

a & b are not opposed to (d).

You can have bhai-bhai & strong dharmic.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Mar 2013 03:57

One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Mar 2013 04:03

Muppalla wrote:
Elite-Brahmin lobby (not the GV brahmins alone but also the RSS top leaders starting from Mohan Bhagawat) does not want to see Modi at all. GV politicians(few that has significant say in affairs) just want to use Modi to win and then do take the mantle rather than allowing him to be the leader. In this model Advani as respectable alternative keeps coming on. In addition, "I am Advani's pet and I have his blessing hence I more elgible than Modi" (Sushma) also makes entry.

Kalyan-Yedi redux. It's not going to work.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 04:10

VikramS wrote:RamaY

Not everyone thinks like you.

a & b are not opposed to (d).

You can have bhai-bhai & strong dharmic.

I would rather stand strong as a Hindu and then treat others as Bhai-Bhai. No need to be sneaky and deceitful. I am not doing anything wrong.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Mar 2013 04:11

I see lot of work for anti-virus on this thread.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Mar 2013 04:28

anmol wrote:
Sanku wrote:I know for a fact that UC's in most of east UP and Bihar are strongly pro-Modi. So at least some of my information is at odds with the above.

RSS top leadership stance am not sure about, but at least visibly, there appears to be tacit support from RSS top leadership now too.
My source is of lingayat "caste", he is kind of person who is close to Govindacharya, was close to ABV, is close to Advani...

He does not hides the fact that he and people like him in BJP/RSS hate modi. According to him, the reason is that Modi "does not work with others".

He is RSS-man... and was part of group that conspired against Gadkari. <<< This confuses me.

That is just euphemism for "Modi Khane peene Nahin deta" i.e. no rent-seeking .

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 13 Mar 2013 04:34

ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

Yes to the first question.
I will raise two questions to order the second question:
1. What is BJP?
2. Who is BJP? That is who runs it?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 04:50

In leadership there are two kinds of leaders - One is first among equals and second is one among equals.

The difference is mainly in the realm of vision. That is why we often see some leaders bubble up when put among equals and do not do not so well when they are forced to be one among equals for whatever reasons.

The BJP/RSS commentary (assuming they are correct) puts NM in the first category. This kind of leaders do very well when they are leading the leadership pack which is the PM position. So it is in BJP's interests to make NM their PM candidate.

In an unavoidable scenario where NM cannot become the PM candidate of BJP, then he should be given a national project with complete authority and budgetary powers something like my favorite National Development Program http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 12#p848912

Now comes the question of when to make this decision.

1/ One approach is to declare NM as the PM candidate and work for atleast simple majority for BJP on its own. This would give BJP a realistic estimate of the percentage of Bharatiyas who accept NM/BJP vision of Bharat and are willing to give it the necessary democratic power.

1.2 In the event of BJP not getting simple majority on its own but got enough seats so it can form a coalition, and go with a compromise candidate.

2/The second approach is to NOT declare the PM candidate and work based on the electoral fortunes. Here too there is a possibility (even if 0.0001%) of BJP getting simple majority of its own. The issue then would be who should be a leader and everyone is a viable candidate. In this case the BJP must be reasonably confident of coming to power, NM or not, given various indicators.

3/The third approach is to NOT declare the PM candidate and also make as many compromises as needed to make a coalition of willing (NDA) before elections. In this scenario BJP is giving up the option of going alone because it is sure of the outcome.

What is BJP thinking 2 or 3 when it thinks it opposes NM? LKA's comment doesn't support option 2.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Mar 2013 07:17

ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

NaMo himself declared that "it does not matter who the PM candidate is".

If he really believes that I have nothing to say.

If he was being diplomatic, then imho one can maintain silence about some things but one should not make incorrect statements.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 13 Mar 2013 07:37

ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

My stab at it--
NaMo has raised his profile deliberately in a caliberated manner over time.
If it is for PM then it is in sync with his ambition which is good IMHO.
we need able people like him to develop India.

It is a direct evedience that he wants to be PM. otherwise why raise his profile in a honest hard working way without seeking subterfuge unlike others.

About whether BJP wants to win--
yes the supporters very much want to win- but the top leadership is compromised-- despite congis giving laddoos frequently the Dilli Billi has failed in its objective as a responsible opposition.
Voters do not see any difference between BJP idetified by dillibilli and congis. hence congis win by default.
Voters are sure about their support to BJP if NaMo is the main person to take on congis. It cuts across party lines.
If BJP has to win then NaMo has to be the leader. No compromise on this.
NaMo has no baggage to be targetted ( 2002 has lost its relevance due to lies)-- hence the ideal person to attack the termite queen and her brood.
He has enough ammunition, able leadership to enthuse the rank and file of his core cupporters which transcend the BJP.

--------------------------------------------------------------

PS-- there are many NaMo supporters both with and without BJP/RSSbackground who support other parties.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 13 Mar 2013 07:40

termite queen and her army are afraid of NaMo.
They will go all out fight to finish him by whatever means- foul or fair does not matter as long they win.

That fear by termite queen is itself an indication of his strenght.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 13 Mar 2013 08:38

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 13 Mar 2013 09:17

Look at the BJP Parliamentary Board - http://bjp.org/index.php?option=com_con ... Itemid=486

Most of them are either not supportive of NaMo or at best tactical allies.

I think at the very least NaMo needs to be made Chairman of the Central Election Committee.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Mar 2013 09:18

^ I think that is the real holdup. The Politics Party guy says LKA team is threatening RNS if he changes the composition of this board.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 13 Mar 2013 09:25

When I tell NaMo should ditch BJP, people laugh. Oh when rubber meets the road they are == onlee.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 13 Mar 2013 09:30

SwamyG ji,

do you remember the story where the real mother was to be the women who could pull the child towards her because she had the most affection/attachment for the kid.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 13 Mar 2013 09:43

SwamyG wrote:When I tell NaMo should ditch BJP, people laugh. Oh when rubber meets the road they are == onlee.

Easier option is to kick out dynasty collaborators.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 13 Mar 2013 09:44

Sushupti wrote:
SwamyG wrote:When I tell NaMo should ditch BJP, people laugh. Oh when rubber meets the road they are == onlee.
Easier option is to kick out dynasty collaborators.

And also the only effective option.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 13 Mar 2013 10:04

RajeshA wrote:a) Don't use polarizing rhetoric. Always use inclusive rhetoric. Hindu-Muslim Bhai-Bhai!

Specifically with reference to Modi, it would be completely unnatural and not gelling with his personality at all to use the bolded phrase.

With Modi, one has come to expect that all his words are measured and carefully thought out - he's NEVER the one to use meaningless platitudes. For such a personality to suddenly switch over and mouth the most meaningless phrase of all time would be quite artificial and not in line with the image he has cultivated.

But that is not to argue against inclusive rhetoric. In Modi's language, inclusive rhetoric could include messages like:

1. Development is inclusive and secular. Hindus, Muslims and Christians stand to gain equally from the benefits of development.
2. As long as 'India First' secular attitude is adoped by anyone, whether Hindu Muslim or Christian - Modi would regard them bhai-bhai...

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 10:05

prahaar wrote:
Sushupti wrote:"SwamyG">>When I tell NaMo should ditch BJP, people laugh. Oh when rubber meets the road they are == onlee.

Easier option is to kick out dynasty collaborators.
And also the only effective option.

Except that in case of some here, that basically is a code word for "everyone in BJP"

One must understand that there are a lot of NaMo "supporters" who are basically only trying to build him up to settle scores with others, or push up NaMo in a way that is guaranteed to piss of others and break up BJP.

These are only supporters of him on the face of it.

A case in point --> One poster wrote this

anmol wrote:
My source is of lingayat "caste", he is kind of person who is close to Govindacharya, was close to ABV, is close to Advani...

He does not hides the fact that he and people like him in BJP/RSS hate modi. According to him, the reason is that Modi "does not work with others".

He is RSS-man... and was part of group that conspired against Gadkari. <<< This confuses me.

But of course the immediately following discussion was like this

Sushupti wrote:
They joined BJP in droves after first BJP govt in UP, in the hope that BJP will protect their "Malai eating" status, which they had during Con dynasty rule.

I suggest extending Master-Proxie model (win-win, win-lose etc) of Atri ji to the BJP central leadership post 47 and see the outcome. .

Which is followed up with another long hate rant on how all UCs of "Cow belt" are b****** who have done nothing but collaborated with British etc.

There was a poster named Ashok Gottipati, whose love of Andhra was much lesser than his hate for others in Andhra, similarly there are Vina's who keep going on against Delhi etc all the while.

The root of this support for Modi is venom these people carry, and the hope that through Modi they will be able to settle scores.

I think these are the sort of People really keeping Modi down.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 11:04

ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

Both are unclear. Second might be true, the first is certainly unclear.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 13 Mar 2013 11:40

Sanku wrote:Except that in case of some here, that basically is a code word for "everyone in BJP"

One must understand that there are a lot of NaMo "supporters" who are basically only trying to build him up to settle scores with others, or push up NaMo in a way that is guaranteed to piss of others and break up BJP.

These are only supporters of him on the face of it.
A case in point --> One poster wrote this

anmol wrote:My source is of lingayat "caste", he is kind of person who is close to Govindacharya, was close to ABV, is close to Advani...

He does not hides the fact that he and people like him in BJP/RSS hate modi. According to him, the reason is that Modi "does not work with others".

He is RSS-man... and was part of group that conspired against Gadkari. <<< This confuses me.

SankuJi, I am afraid... you have misunderstood my post. I am no-one to settle score with people in BJP/RSS. Nor am I supporting Modi just because I hate some people.. or people of certain castes or region or faction.

In fact 99% of times I am agreeing with your POV... because as of now nothing else is making any sense.

The reason why I mentioned the persons caste and proximity to factions and people within BJP/RSS, was because some posters on this forum think that people of certain castes or factions don't like Modi.

Do I have anything against Lingayats, Govindacharya, Advani, Atalji, Gadkari, etc ? Nope.

IMVHO Modi-Adavani-MMJ-SSC-RS... heck even "tainted" yeddyurappa or Bangaru Laxman are million times better than NehruGandhi Parivar and their puppet. My only agenda is that BJP/NDA comes to power and goes after the termites.

But TBH: I prefer modi.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 13 Mar 2013 11:44

Sanku wrote:
ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?
Both are unclear. Second might be true, the first is certainly unclear.

Going by recent events - NaMo's speeches to SRCC, to NRIs and sountbytes, I definitely think he has set his eyes on the PM gaddi, and rightly & deservedly so.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:05

anmol wrote: SankuJi, I am afraid... you have misunderstood my post. I am no-one to settle score with people in BJP/RSS. Nor am I supporting Modi just because I hate some people.. or people of certain castes or region or faction.
.

anmol-ji; that post was not meant at you. Apologies if it came across that way. I was merely shooting off your shoulder so to speak. I was trying to point out that a few people are running a different agenda, it is ostensibly aligned with NaMo at the moment, but it has nothing to do with NaMo. They basically want to settle scores with those they hate, NaMo is a convenient foil.

Sadly for them, I do think NaMo is so dumb. He understand that all who praise you (in politics) are not your friends, and all those who disagree are your enemies.

In fact for all the nonsense of Media consumption, NaMo and Nitish are best of friends and close through the other Modi in Bihar. Very recently a cake cutting on Na Mos birthday was celebrated in Patna with great gusto, when Nitish was asked why he is not complaining he said "its good that people celebrate Birthdays" or something like that.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 13 Mar 2013 12:16

ramana wrote:One funda question.

Does NaMo want to be the PM?
And more importantly does BJP want to win?

Yes, to the first one.
No to the second one because winning (as in getting enough seats not to have a desperate need for support from other parties) would mean Modi becomes PM. They would rather lose and continue to live on scraps thrown their way by INC than let Modi be PM.

Just to be clear, by BJP, I mean D4, RSS and most of the leadership in BJP state units.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:18

merlin wrote: They would rather lose and continue to live on scraps thrown their way by INC than let Modi be PM.

Just to be clear, by BJP, I mean D4, RSS and most of the leadership in BJP state units.

And just why do you think that RSS/BJP would be particularly so self destructive?

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 13 Mar 2013 12:29

Mohandas Pai has accepted the invite to be a keynote speaker at the Wharton conference. I have always thought him to be an intelligent type so far - so I would hope that he has accepted only with the thinking that he could use the platform to also speak out against the decision to disinvite Modi, and stress on the signficance of Modi's development agenda in Gujarat.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:31

Arjun wrote:Mohandas Pai has accepted the invite to be a keynote speaker at the Wharton conference. I have always thought him to be an intelligent type so far - so I would hope that he has accepted only with the thinking that he could use the platform to also speak out against the decision to disinvite Modi, and stress on the signficance of Modi's development agenda in Gujarat.

Are you kidding? Mohandas Pai and Nandan Nilekani are UPA's foot soldiers through and through. You have to watch Pai specifically on the media shows to see his alignment.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 13 Mar 2013 12:55

Sanku wrote:Are you kidding? Mohandas Pai and Nandan Nilekani are UPA's foot soldiers through and through. You have to watch Pai specifically on the media shows to see his alignment.

They are right-wing strongly pro-development folks - and will be on the side of whoever can convince them of their development credentials.

Some quotes from Pai:

Infosys Human resources director and former CFO, T Mohandas Pai does not share the same views of NRN about Karnataka. Pai is known for being very bold in expressing his views, never hesitates in calling a spade a spade. Pai speaking at the same seminar said there is rampant corruption in Karnataka and industries are forced to flee the state. In fact many prefer to go to Gujarat which is known for being corruption free and industry friendly. This adds to the Karnataka govt embarrassment because Gujarat too has a BJP govt.

Read more at: http://news.oneindia.in/2011/03/16/info ... d0101.html

Narendra Modi’s victory has strengthened the belief that development is the best agenda,” he said.

from Corporate India greets Modi

Lets see whether Pai brings up the Modi disinvite at Wharton. To my mind, that would be the test of whether he is a UPA 'foot soldier' or not.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 12:58

Arjun wrote:
Sanku wrote:Are you kidding? Mohandas Pai and Nandan Nilekani are UPA's foot soldiers through and through. You have to watch Pai specifically on the media shows to see his alignment.
They are right-wing strongly pro-development folks - and will be on the side of whoever can convince them of their development credentials.

Umm no, they are only "lets make money as much as we can and as long as we can and no boats need to be rocked for this" -- short term profit maximizers.

These guys were the ones who leaned on the NDA govt to make sure that Parkaram did not get hotter.

But as you said;

Lets see whether Pai brings up the Modi disinvite at Wharton. To my mind, that would be the test of whether he is a UPA 'foot soldier' or not.

We shall see.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 13 Mar 2013 13:19

Isn't Manipal's owner close to Congress ?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 13 Mar 2013 13:27

no need for modi to go bhai-bhai. all he needs to convey is - development for all will mean development for muslims too.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Mar 2013 13:51

an article that shows the proactive nature of Guj state govt. it came in financial exp/economic times yesterday here.

http://www.omantribune.com/index.php?pa ... ding=India

Power cuts cripple Coimbatore’s ambition to become business hub

COIMBATORE Crippling power cuts in the southern state of Tamil Nadu are shutting factories and threatening an industrial debt crisis that is wrecking its second-largest city’s plan to become the country’s next business hub.

Electricity shortages are emerging as one of the biggest brakes on India’s ambitions to rise up the ranks of the world’s major economies, and match regional rival China as a manufacturing powerhouse.

Nowhere is this clearer than in Coimbatore, a city of 3.5 million people which once seemed to offer investors looking for the ‘new Bangalore’ everything they wanted: A long history of manufacturing, an educated workforce and the vision to attract global firms.

But bad policymaking has allowed one of the country’s most promising regions to run into a brick wall, and now Coimbatore businesses selling everything from car parts to IT services are struggling with blackouts that last up to 14 hours every day.

Failure to invest in generation and distribution meant that when growth hit double digits and drove up demand during the booming Noughties, the grid was pushed beyond its limit.

On an average India suffers a 9 per cent peak-time power deficit, but in Tamil Nadu the average is twice as bad, at 18 per cent.

The grid’s inadequacy is forcing firms to rely on expensive back-up power that drives up export costs at a time they should be reaping the benefits of a weaker rupee currency.

Many business owners say they are thinking of moving to one of the handful of Indian states that has reliable electricity.

K Ramasamy owns a company that sells car horns to Mercedes-Benz. Coimbatore is his hometown and, with its agreeable climate and cheap land, was a natural location for his first factory 43 years ago.

For years, Ramasamy flourished as Coimbatore grew, opening eight subsidiaries. In keeping with the town’s casual character, he founded a yoga centre. Now he is thinking of leaving for distant western states like Gujarat and Maharashtra.

Every day for 15 months, electricity cuts lasting many hours have hit Ramasamy’s Roots Group, so to keep working he must power his horn factories using on-site diesel generators that cost him nearly three times the price of grid energy.

“I don’t think this is going to be solved in a year or two,” Ramasamy said, noting he was “seriously considering” offers from officials in Gujarat who guarantee 24/7 electricity. We can’t be waiting all the time, we need to make a move.”

Last year, though the number of new investment projects begun in Coimbatore and nearby district Dharmapuri increased marginally, the figure for abandoned projects rose five-fold, according to data provided by the Centre for Monitoring the Indian Economy (CMIE), an independent research group.

Fabric manufacturer VTX Textiles, whose international clients include Macy’s Inc, fears it may soon join the ranks of failed projects after half a century in Coimbatore.

The lights flickered off as VTX chairman and managing director AL Ramachandra sat in his plush office explaining how his energy costs have doubled.

Downstairs, in one of his four factories, the power stayed on because VTX has spent close to $90,000 on battery systems to ensure a seamless transition to generators at his plants when the grid gives out.

Even with this makeshift solution, blackouts have cost the company a tenth of its customers and pushed it to restructure its debt.

In 2012, according to Ramachandra, VTX lost over $2 million in revenues as a result of air freight delays as energy shortages stopped factory lines running on schedule.

Ramachandra said the power crisis as well as a rise in capital costs are hampering Coimbatore’s chances of becoming the next Bangalore.

“Multinationals do not go to the tier II cities; they don’t come to Coimbatore,” said Ramachandra. “Why would the multinationals come here when the power situation is so bad?”

Some still believe in the long-term promise of Coimbatore, particularly IT companies that require much less energy than manufacturing industries.

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 13 Mar 2013 13:55

I am afraid UPA-3 is much more likely scenario. Although entire nation may want NaMo, Congress will pull out some dirty electroal tricks and BJP will keep guess what went wrong.
For example:
- Make Adhaar card mandatroy for voting just 2 months before election dates, and entire middle class is wiped away
- use cash transfer scheme to do some "advance" cash transfer before elections
- Waive off some loans for farmers and others
- Project Youraj in media say - Youraj persuaded MMS to reduce fuel price, inflations etc kind of news
- Minority card

NaMo should use his political acumen to counter these tricks to win

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 13 Mar 2013 13:57

^^^

Somehow, even as I wish for NaMo and BJP, I too think that UPA 3 will arise.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Mar 2013 14:07

>> Make Adhaar card mandatroy for voting just 2 months before election dates, and entire middle class is wiped away

that will not withstand a legal challenge , as people in voter list on production of any valid id must be allowed to vote.

in any case the middle class is also strongly buying into adhaar card to get the LPG subsidy. there are adhaar camps being held in large apt complexes in blr there days. I hope to submit my papers at one such camp in my apt next week.