AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 20:54

FARNESINA, COMMITMENT TO VOTE ABROAD

DATA ON VOTERS

In the face of electoral 3,494,687 parcels sent by Embassies and Consulates Italians living abroad, including those added locally by law, are returned to our offices 1,122,294 envelopes, equal to 32.11% of those sent. It was not possible to deliver inaccessibility of the 11 recipients, 38% of parcels sent.

In Europe, the percentage of the envelopes returned to the offices of a total of parcels sent is of 31.1% in South America is 34.79% for North and Central America the figure is 29.87%, the allocation Africa -Asia-Oceania, the percentage is 30.65%. On the site http://www.esteri.it are published detailed data for each Site.

The percentage of voters who actually has the voting right is calculated by the Central Office for Foreign Constituency, on completion of the preparations at the polls.

There were more than 1000 personnel of the Foreign Ministry, in 204 between Embassies and Consulates operating in the world, to ensure since November - in the formation of lists of candidates abroad - to carry out all the requirements for the exercise of right to vote by mail by about 3 and a half million Italian voters living abroad as well as the 10,852 citizens temporarily abroad and belonging to the categories to which the law allows you to vote on the spot for correspondence (military, employees of the central government State and university teachers).

A special task force set up at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has coordinated - in close cooperation with the Ministry of the Interior - the progress of the electoral process and the implementation of all the organizational measures necessary to implement the procedures for voting by correspondence provided by law.

Code: Select all

Distribution	Country	Consular office	Sent envelopes	Returned envelopes by Voters		Returned packages for Unavailability of the recipient		Returned envelopes % of parcels sent by Voters

AAO	INDIA		CALCUTTA-KOLKATA (CG)	  42	16th	2		38.10%
AAO	INDIA		MUMBAI (CG)					503	247	54th	49.11%
AAO	INDIA		NEW DELHI (A.)				260	109	31		41.92%

________________

Overall 372 Italian voters cast their votes for the February 24-25, 2013 Election IN INDIA. Why couldn't the Italian Marines also have done the same?

Of course there was no reason to entertain any such request, but even if are the very peak of moral high mountain, as some of us here would have us be, why did the UPA-2 regime deem it necessary to allow the Italian Marines to leave India?

In fact even NRIs can vote abroad, so the concept of voting abroad for elections is not something one wouldn't know in India.

One should refuse to believe that the Indian Government has been duped! There was NO DUPING! This was COLLUSION and Treason!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Mar 2013 21:10

An Italian job

Hindu Editorial on Italian .....

Nations that want to be taken seriously must match their actions with that aspiration. The refusal to send back Massimiliano Latorre and Salvatore Girone — the Marines aboard the merchant ship Enrica Lexie accused of shooting and killing two fishermen off the Kerala coast after mistaking them for pirates — may win the new Italian government brownie points at home but is conduct unbecoming of a responsible nation. The duo were permitted by the Supreme Court to visit Italy to cast their votes in the February 22 national election, on a promise by the Italian government that they would return to India to face trial. Foreign Minister Giulio Terzi of the outgoing government spoke glowingly of the decision as “evidence of the climate of mutual trust and cooperation with Indian authorities.” Italy now stands in breach of that trust. The Italian foreign ministry says New Delhi did not heed its request for a diplomatic resolution, a curious statement considering all avenues for such resolution have already been tried and exhausted.

From day one, Italy has questioned India’s jurisdiction in the matter, as according to it, the incident took place in international waters. The Supreme Court ruled in January that while India indeed had jurisdiction, only the Union government — and not Kerala — could investigate or try the case. Accordingly, it ordered a special court for the purpose. But the ruling’s “high seas” description of India’s Exclusive Economic Zone beyond the 12-nautical mile line that marks the formal extent of the maritime boundary was certainly favourable to the Italian side. The Court also went so far as to leave the jurisdiction question open, saying Italy could challenge India’s right to try the two men in the special court. With all this, the Italians could hardly have claimed that the legal process was biased against them. While India-Italy ties will not be the same again, the Supreme Court’s decision to allow the two accused men to leave India is also curious. Permission was given on the basis of a Kerala High Court order that granted the Marines a two-week sojourn in Italy during Christmas. That was in itself a highly unusual decision. The Supreme Court seems to have persuaded itself to believe that having returned once, they would certainly return again. But having done that, it laid down none of the stringent conditions to ensure the Marines came back, as the High Court had done. Those included execution of a Rs 6 crore bank guarantee, and undertakings by the Italian envoy taking responsibility for their return. The fact that it did not press these issues in February is another embarrassment for the UPA, which stands exposed for allowing itself to be taken for a ride so easily by a foreign government.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editori ... 501559.ece

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Mar 2013 21:22

The conduct of Italy as a nation is suspect. This will influence further discourse and actions in international relations with them. The action by Italy is nothing sort of what a Mafia don would do. But then Italy is the land of Mafia. Indians have been time and again duped by them. One must conclude that getting duped is the most willing part of those ruling this country.

However , it would be foolish to believe that Kongis and the current dispensation would do anything beyond lipservice to ensure that those Italian Marine criminals come to India to face trials. The public Prosecutor , the CJI mr Kabir and Law Minister as well as MEA has been part of this hatchet job.

Italians can not cite any instances to justify their genetical tendencies to criminal behaviour. They woiuld like to cite Law and the Law they should face. The Ambassador , who gave personal assurance , must be held in contempt of the SC and diplomatic immunity taken and arrested. But would that not invite counter action by Italians. So we need to think of viable alternatives. I think there are many more ships of Italian registered and secured by italian marines that passes through Indian ocean . Indian navy and Coastguards may be asked to take retailiatory action sort of sinking them.

But why am I daydreaming. This is a job done by Indians , so why blame Italians. It is treason and we should try them as rajeshA suggested. Clean ones own house first of this rot.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Mar 2013 21:29

Why should BRF ban the language against MMS. Why can't we say MMS the traitor even now?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 13 Mar 2013 21:31

Noting that Italian laws did not require them to be physically present to cast their votes as they could have exercised their franchise even through mail, Mr. Jaitley said their act of approaching Indian government for sending Italian marines back to that country appears “pre-scripted”.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... 504445.ece

I have to agree with RajeshA: this huffing and puffing by MMS, Khurshid et al. reminds me more than ever of the Tarantella around the release of Raymond Davis Allen by pakistan. A farce in three acts.

GoI (if you can call them that), sought to be clever by a half—giving the marinaras a tourist visa while the judicial process ground on and Indian people went on to the next debacle. Instead, the Italians gave us the finger to play to the constituency at home. Berlusconi's bro kept sticking it to Monti.

I have a lot of Italian friends but I tell you--whether it's in the US or in Italy, up there with the most racist Europeans.

Not that BJP or the Indian media would ever think of it but may be a social media campaign that illustrates the Italians' total disregard for India would help as a catharsis. By this I mean where all the negative cartoons and commentaries in Italy are collected and made available to Indians as a compilation of "What they really think of us".

It's using your foe's energy.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 21:40

Cosmo_R ji,

one would find many examples of prejudice and racism among other peoples regarding Indians. There are many who hate India outright.

I don't know however whether it is good to tell Indians that others disrespect or hate us! What would be the exact gain in this method?

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 13 Mar 2013 21:47

Muppalla wrote:Why should BRF ban the language against MMS. Why can't we say MMS the traitor even now?

Perhaps stating the obvious and wasting bandwidth?

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 13 Mar 2013 21:56

The 2 accused are now set to rejoin navy duty in Italy(http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_it ... ia_1810787). So, not only will Italy not let them be tried in India, they are not even going to try them in Italy it appears. Thats the second assurance they have gone back on.

Turin-based daily La Stampa reported Italian defense ministry officials as saying they were happy with the decision not to send back the marines, who would now be rejoining their duties.

Its just mind numbing how desh under UPA2 is stumbling from one debacle to another without respite. This whole sordid conspiracy is a solid win for UPA2 and a resounding defeat for deshvasis. I expect a slowdown in Helicoptergate investigation due to a chill in ties with Italy. A convenient year or two to wipe the slate clean.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 13 Mar 2013 22:21

A wave of Italian conceit

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 13 Mar 2013 22:25

The conduct of Italy as a nation is suspect. This will influence further discourse and actions in international relations with them. The action by Italy is nothing sort of what a Mafia don would do. But then Italy is the land of Mafia. Indians have been time and again duped by them.

Actually, most European governments over the last 300 years have been nothing but a criminal enterprise indulging in money laundering, looting and plunder, drugs trade, and genocide on a global scale. The character of the White race changed after Roman conquest and forced Christianisation of Europe. The White race thereafter turned diabolic and deceitful, and a threat to the whole world. It still remains so.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Mar 2013 22:29

^^ from above link

The daily Il Manifesto, however, described the Italian move as "scandalous."

The decision is scandalous "because the Italian government had given a formal undertaking that the two marines would return to stand trial under India law," said Il Manifesto.

The left-wing Il Manifesto was also critical of the way the marines were given a hero's welcome on their return.

"It is right to defend them (the accused marines) diplomatically. But to organise an escape is shameful," said Il Manifesto.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Mar 2013 22:32

Hariprasad · Post by **Hariprasad** » 13 Mar 2013 22:34

^

Oh, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Pathetic state of affairs.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Mar 2013 22:53

I think this episode would go down as Pure Treason for the Dynasty!

But it would also go down as a case of STUPIDITY on the part of Italians. They think with their guts and not with the heads. I like their Mumm! They saved their Marines from being punished by some two-bit banana republic!

But by doing what they did, they have in fact also condemned Indian-Italian relations for the foreseeable future, i.e. for the next 60 years to dustbin. No business. Less tourists. No strategic understanding. Great going! So I wouldn't cry! The loss to the Italians in the long run is going to be pretty high, for India is going places, and just because the provincial Italians do not know about it and have slept through the last 2 decades, it doesn't change the facts.

Secondly as the AugustaWestland Bribery Exposure Threat to the Family becomes more widely known, other potential buyer governments of AugustaWestland or from other Italian defense hardware in many other countries who also used to get kickbacks now know that Italy can't be trusted. Italy would use blackmail to get what they want from these leaders. So they will not buy anymore! For that however this narrative would have to gain some more publicity, which I am sure it would!

Italians can say goodbye to India for a very long time!

Question is when are we going to say goodbye to the Italians among us?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 13 Mar 2013 23:17

[quote="Sanku"][img]http://media2

Third picture complete with Long Fingre Sign symbolizing I as well the four letter Akshar.
The verdict now can be given against the accused in absentia. If and when time comes, they can be captured and brought to Desh for due "diligence".

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 13 Mar 2013 23:27

Arun Jaitley invokes Bond film Goldfinger dialogue to attack govt on Italian marines issue

Leader of Opposition Arun Jaitley today invoked a popular quote by James Bond to attack the government on the Italian marines issue.

"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times, it's enemy action," he quoted from the Bond novel Goldfinger.

Jaitley said Italy's action of not sending its marines back was like "enemy action" as it had repeated this the third time and India should forget "diplomatic niceties".

"Since we have been treated in this manner for the third time, I think, when we should forget diplomatic niceties," he said, adding "the Government of India must respond to and must be taken up in all its seriousness."

The BJP leader also suggested action against Italian Ambassador Daniele Mancini, who had assured the Supreme Court that the marines facing trial for killing two Indian fishermen would return to India after voting in that country's national elections last month.

"Here is a country which has done this for the third time," he said, while referring to the earlier incidents when in 1980s in a defence transaction somebody absconded from India through Malaysia, Argentina and took refuge in Italy and the Italian government not handing over any documents in the recent VVIP helicopter deal to Indian officials investigating the case.

He also asked the Indian government to deal with Romans as Romans would deal and forget about diplomatic niceties.

"After these three experiences, now a time has come that when you deal with the Romans, deal as the Romans would deal, and, therefore, when they have broken every rule of diplomacy, it is the time for the Government of India to act and not to say that we are now bound by conventions of diplomacy," he said.

He also referred to the incident as an "extreme case where there is a case of a state sponsored deception".

Jaitley said Italy had "broken every rule of democracy" and its action was comparable to "state-sponsored terrorism".

"We have heard of State sponsored terrorisms, but this act by a democratic country, which ostensibly claims to be committed to the rule of law, seems to be the first such case of a State-sponsored deception and a State sponsored abduction.

"It is a State-sponsored abduction because they approached the Supreme Court of India ostensibly on the pretext first that the two persons being prosecuted had to go their homes to celebrate Christmas," Jaitley said in the Rajya Sabha.

He asked the Law Minister to examine the post- constitutional treaties, including the Vienna convention, which cannot overwrite the constitution of the country, whether the Ambassador, who has given a sovereign undertaking on behalf of the Government of Italy is entitled to the benefit of 'diplomatic privilege'.

"He submitted to the jurisdiction of the Indian Supreme Court. Once you submit to the jurisdiction, you can’t claim diplomatic privileges," he said.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Mar 2013 01:19

Arun Jaitley is missing the point, completely, IMHO.

Catching and punishing Italians is one thing. That is courts job.

What as the main opposition BJP must do is to accuse two or three parties directly and take the fight to the core of Congress system.

1/ On what basis Kerala HC and Supreme court allowed this nonsense? Just because they are independent, that does not mean do nonsense stuff like this and put the Govt in corner. All the judges should be booked for treason and must be investigated first.

2/ The Govt leadership, especially Sonia Gandhi, PM of India MMS and Salman Khurshid etc should be resigned for allowing this nonsense in the name of secularism and independence of courts.

Finally, BJP should bell the cat. Call names and connect Sonia Gandhi directly to this issue along with Aghosta payments to "the family".

BJP should focus on removing the termite in Bharat. Punishing Italy is not BJP's job, it is INC's job.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Mar 2013 01:25

RamaY ji,

Agree! Jaitley is making completely the wrong case! What is to be done to Italy now is not BJP's concern! First priority is to nail the treason and the traitors! He is diverting the ire away from Sonia Gandhi's regime!

He should be clear about his loyalties.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Mar 2013 02:00

CBi files chargesheet in Chopper scam

CBI books former IAF chief and 12 others

Some new names suddenly appear.

.Skip to content.Thu
14032013 .

Headlines:
Chopper deal: CBI books former IAF Chief, 12 others Chopper deal: CBI books former IAF Chief, 12 others

Wednesday, 13 March 2013 13:08 PTI | New Delhi

CBI today filed an FIR against former IAF Chief S P Tyagi and 12 others for alleged cheating and criminal conspiracy in Rs 3600 crore VVIP Helicopter deal.

Two new names, which were not part of the agency's preliminary enquiry, have also been included in the FIR. They include brother of former Union Minister Santosh Bagrodia, Satish Bagrodia and Pratap Aggarwal, Chairman and Managing Director of IDS Infotech respectively.

Tyagi is first Chief of the Indian Air Force to be named in a corruption or criminal case by the CBI.

CBI sources said provisions of Prevention of Corruption Act have also been slapped in the FIR filed by the agency.

At least 12 teams of the agency also carried out coordinated searches at 14 locations across posh localities of Delhi, NCR and Chandigarh which include the residence of Tyagi, his cousins and offices of Finmeccanica, AgustaWestland, IDS Infotech and Aeromatrix among others, they said.

The agency has also named four companies--Italy-based Finmeccanica, UK-based AgustaWestland and Chandigarh-based IDS Infotech and Aeromatrix in connection with the case.

The sources said suspected European middlemen Carlo Garosa, Christian Michel and Guido Haschkhe, advocate Gautam Khaitan formerly associated with Aeromatric and its CEO Praveen Bakshi, former Finmeccanica Chairman Giuseppe Orsi, former AgustaWestland CEO Bruno SpagnoliniTyagi--Julie, Docsa and Sandeep have also been named in the FIR.

After carrying out its preliminary enquiry for nearly 16 days, the agency gathered evidence to register a case in connection with alleged payment of Ra 362 crore bribe to swing the 12 helicopter deal in favour of AgustaWestland, CBI sources said.

They said the agency has got some documents from Italy and files from the Defence Ministry which indicate criminal conspiracy to make alterations in the requirement of helicopter specifications which suited AgustaWestland.

The agency has also carried out detailed questioning of Tyagi, his cousins--Julie, Docsa and Sandeep, Gautam Khaitan, Praveen Bakshi and Bagrodia--last week, the sources said.

All the accused have denied allegations against them.

Italian company Finmeccanica allegedly paid a commission to the middlemen out of which huge sums were transferred to Indian nationals through Tunisia and Mauritius, the PE said.

The money was sent in the garb of of engineering contracts with two Indian companies — IDS Infotech and Aeromatrix, it said.

The Italian agencies on February 15 had arrested Orsi, former Chairman of the Finmeccanica, parent company of AgustaWestland, on charges of paying bribe for the contract.

The investigation report by Italian prosecutor had claimed that Hashcke and Gerosa, through the Tyagi brothers, who in turn through their cousin S P Tyagi, managed first to change the tender details, in a way to favour, modifying the ‘operational ceiling’ from 18,000 to 15,000 feet of altitude, thus allowing AgustaWestland spa (which otherwise could not have even submitted an offer) to take part in the tender.

{I thought the height ceiling was adjusted before Tyagi became the IAF chief.}

The report also claimed that the duo managed to introduce a comparative flight trial with non-functional engine, thus facilitating AgustaWestland helicopters, the only ones which had three engines, swinging the deal in its favour.

It alleged payments were made to Hashcke and Gerosa through a consultancy contract between AW spa and Gordian Services Sarl and an amount of 400,000 Euros (about Rs 2.8 crore).

Out of this amount 100,000 Euros (Rs 72 lakh) were allegedly paid in cash to the Tyagi brothers (Julie, Docsa and Sandeep), it alleged.

Total amount of bribe looks too small for the 12 helicopter deal. And maybe the CBI is concentrating on what the Tyagis appeared to have got.

Also the European agents in end got bribes paid from the GOI funds.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 14 Mar 2013 02:42

RajeshA wrote:Cosmo_R ji,

one would find many examples of prejudice and racism among other peoples regarding Indians. There are many who hate India outright.

I don't know however whether it is good to tell Indians that others disrespect or hate us! What would be the exact gain in this method?

Because it strips away the blanket of denial and changes our puppy tail wagging, Bollywood dancing posture towards people who despise us and want only our money. The spin that the Italians put on in India needs to be shown up.

Added later: I am only talking about the hate whipped up with regard to this marines incident and not about more general feelings towards India/Indians/Asians

We've had a love affair with Italy since the 70s what with SNAM Progetti paying off everyone and I mean everyone during those times.

I'm not saying other people are not racists but Italians are almost in a class by themselves. Look at what happens in soccer games in Italy. Berlusconi's brother openly disses Ballotelli. The east Europeans are another racist bunch. Just google Ballotelli and see what the results show you.

Jaitley actually is playing it well. He's saying "MMS et al. I would like to believe you, you must now take 'enemy action' to prove your words." Same as Modi saying: "...nothing less than the return of the two marines is acceptable."

They are painting the INC into a corner, knowing that GoI have a hope in hell of getting those two back or even the cojones to retaliate. Then, this becomes a central issue and the sub text is focused on you know who.

BTW, it will amuse everyone to know that the Italian Amby who we would like to go says "Heck no!, I won't go". unintentionally, he's rubbing salt into wounds since he's the one who filed the affidavit the marinaras would return.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Mar 2013 04:32

That cartoonist stole my idea : buy 2 get 2 free.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Mar 2013 04:49

http://world.time.com/2013/03/13/indian ... for-trial/
Indian PM Demands Italy Return Marines for Trial

I want to make it clear that these actions of the government of Italy are not acceptable,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told Parliament on Wednesday. “They violate every rule of diplomatic discourse and call into question solemn commitments given by the accredited representative of a sovereign government to our Supreme Court.”Singh said Italy’s actions were damaging bilateral relations that were built on trust.“Our government has insisted that the Italian authorities respect the undertaking they had given to the Supreme Court and return the two accused persons to stand trial in India,” he said. If they don’t, “there will be consequences.”One former official said India should follow a calibrated diplomatic strategy to deal with the dispute.“India should make a strong representation to the Italian government that this is a breach of agreement and contempt of India’s judicial system,” said Lalit Mansingh, a former foreign secretary.He said India should also stop receiving Italian delegations, including trade groups, shutting out the attractive Indian market to Italian companies.“The message can be conveyed through diplomatic channels, and also informally, that in view of this kind of behavior, India would consider debarring Italian companies from taking part in government tenders,” Mansingh said.Today all European countries are looking at India as a potential market and a place for investment. If the Italians foolishly want to get out of this market, then so be it. The loss will be theirs,” he said.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 14 Mar 2013 05:46

These are ingrates. I have this book(its a very rare book) and I remember

http://www.ourstory.info/library/4-ww2/ ... phsTC.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Mar 2013 06:37

Sanku wrote:

How about this one

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 14 Mar 2013 06:45

Shiv ji posted hand is correct
If you see carefully that hand
You can see the life line is starting from the mount of Apollo
Which indicates the non return of Italian by sea
Also the hand is thought to be symbol of stop aka do not enter
Hence the Italians are gone with the wind in Aegean sea

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 14 Mar 2013 06:55

As many folks have pointed out, the outrage should be against our own govt and courts, not the Italians.

By the way the new figure on the Italian political scene, Beppe Grillo, seems to be an interesting character -

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Mar 2013 06:56

Muppalla wrote:Why should BRF ban the language against MMS. Why can't we say MMS the traitor even now?

Because it is a serious allegation, and if it can not be proved then one cannot claim it is just an opinion.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Mar 2013 07:25

There are many alternatives in lingo which amount to the same,"being economical with the truth" instead of "liar"."Dereliction of duty" a favourite of mine.

Anyway,back to the infamous ambassador who did lie to the SC.There appears to be a diff. of opinion between the MEA and MHA.The MEA is sticking to the Vienna Convention protecting diplomats,but the MHA says that he voluntarily gave an assurance to the SC and thus has revoked his immunity himself and can be arrested.No prizes as to who will win.Our gallant "Salmon" is full of the diplomatic art of polite talk,lavish entertainment of enemies and will be hooked ,line and sinker by the Italian mafiosos.

I strongly maintain that the Italian liar should be given state hospitality at Tihar ,but with revamped security to see that he does not "suicide" himself! he can be booted out after spending a holiday at the GOI's expense.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Mar 2013 07:27

^didn't the PM say "Ceaser's wife should be above suspecion"?

He is the Mukhda of termite-family!

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 14 Mar 2013 07:51

don't the italian citizens of the 10 janpath know that Italians can do postal voting, i am sure they have done the same over the years.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Mar 2013 08:04

^ that would have been worthwhile comment for Arun Jaitly to make.

I watched his parliament speech. He made another mistake. He alleged that Italians abducted the marines from our judicial system. That is not a fact.

Instead imagine he said
"We have the UPA chairperson who was an Italian citizen, who could have told the ministers and supreme court that the marines could use postal ballot.

If not her, the Italian ambassador could have informed the SC that there are remote polling booths in three locations in India.

Given this back ground, who influenced the SC that the marines have to go to Italy, that too for 30 days to vote in general elections?

Did the SC judge made this decision on his own? In that case he should be fired from that job because he put the entire nation at odds with another sovereign nation and put us on shame.

If the Govt advised the SC judge thru its public prosecutors, they should be arrested and interrogated to find if they got this suggestion from others.

In any case we have to arrest three parties and prosecute them. First the public prosecutors, second the Supre court judge and third the External affairs minister.

We need to prosecute them for treason before we arrest the Italian ambassador for insulting our justice system and warning Italy of consequences"

vic · Post by **vic** » 14 Mar 2013 09:47

Saint has paid more money than the number of Helos supplied to India, if the deal is cancelled now Italians will fall over laughing. Italy would not have dared to cock a snook in marines issue, unless MMS told them that it was ok.

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 14 Mar 2013 09:54

Air Marshal Jayal weighs in on the Westland procurement issue.

Interesting facts:

The primary charge levelled at the erstwhile air chief is that he conspired to lower the services qualitative requirements of operating altitude enabling the AgustaWestland AW101 helicopter to enter the race from which otherwise it was excluded.

***

the MoD has issued a press release giving out the sequence of events. It reveals that an acquisition process for VVIP helicopters commenced in March 2002 and culminated in the EC-225 of M/S Eurocopter being found suitable for acquisition after flight evaluation. In November 2003, the principal secretary to the prime minister convened a meeting voicing concern that the mandatory requirements stipulated by the IAF had resulted in a single vendor situation. Ostensibly to widen the choice of prospective vendors, the meeting decided to modify the mandatory altitude requirement to 4.5 kilometres whilst leaving the 6 km altitude to be desirable. It further added 1.8 metre cabin height as a desirable requirement.

(So SQRs were diluted to allow for a multi vendor scenario)

This was done despite:

Some interesting points emerge from this. The primary concern of the principal secretary to the prime minister was a single vendor situation. At the time, the Defence Procurement Procedure 2002 (version June, 2003) was very much in existence although it was to come into force from June 30, 2003. Notwithstanding this, there did exist an earlier policy and the entire process was proceeding under the authority of the defence acquisition council chaired by the defence minister. The DPP recognizes the reality of a single vendor situation arising even at a tender stage and leaves the authority to decide with the defence minister.

It was contrary to the letter and spirit of the procurement procedure for the PMO to have interfered, especially at the crucial decisionmaking stage. The MoD release glosses over this vital violation of procedure, which not only halted the induction process that was nearing completion, but under the guise of the issues of single vendor and revision of SQRs, also paved the way for the AgustaWestland helicopter to join the race. The IAF chief at the time of the PMO’s intervention was the predecessor to the chief under fire, although the formal changes to the SQR took place under the latter’s watch.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130314/j ... 639717.jsp

Added later: Based on the dates under question when such modifications to SQRs were allegedly allowed (2002-03), it appears unlikely that the INC would want to scuttle the Westland investigation.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Mar 2013 10:37

RamaY wrote:^ that would have been worthwhile comment for Arun Jaitly to make.

I watched his parliament speech. He made another mistake. He alleged that Italians abducted the marines from our judicial system. That is not a fact.

RamaY-ji/RajeshA, et al, lets get real, no one is going to make such charges in public -- instead lets read what Shri Jatiely said again

Three times is enemy action

What are the three times
1) Q
2) Augusta Westland
3) Marines

What else is common other than Italy in the above? Thats right Congress led by Sonia Maino.

Shri Jaitely has already said what you want to be said, as much as can be said in Parliament right now.

Also other BJP members have already laid the charge of collusion on the floor of the house and elsewhere.

What is needed to be said is said -- not that it matters much anyway, we Dhimmi's are still marching to a 60 year old drum

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 14 Mar 2013 12:17

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/marin ... 130314.htm

Marines row: Italian ambassador can't leave India, says SC

The Supreme Court on Thursday restrained Italian ambassador to India Daniele Mancini from leaving the country, and asked him to appear before the court on Monday after Italy refuses to send back two marines charged with killing Indian fishermen. The SC has also issued a notice to the Italian ambassador and the two marines.

Maybe SwamyG's wish for his arrest will come true.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Mar 2013 12:33

Sanku wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/report/marin ... 130314.htm

Marines row: Italian ambassador can't leave India, says SC

The Supreme Court on Thursday restrained Italian ambassador to India Daniele Mancini from leaving the country, and asked him to appear before the court on Monday after Italy refuses to send back two marines charged with killing Indian fishermen. The SC has also issued a notice to the Italian ambassador and the two marines.
Maybe SwamyG's wish for his arrest will come true.

By voluntarily entering into the Indian judicial system and giving a personal guarantee of return of the eyetalian marines to the Indian Supreme Court, the eyetalian ambassador has lost his diplomatic immunity.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 14 Mar 2013 13:19

if the case is brought to ICJ would we have legal standing in getting these folks back?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 14 Mar 2013 13:47

^^^Well, as I said earlier - the highlighting of the role of former COAS ACM Tyagi is the smokescreen to deflect the attention from main culprits. The powers that be know that in case of a defense scandal at this penultimate state of next General Election, the trial will be in the media and not courts. In the courts, Her Majesty's Service - Congress Bureau of India AKA CBI - can be expected to manage the case.

But a trial in the media in 2013 will ensure that Bofors looks like a walk in the park...and Congis know the power of social media to affect them negatively too well. So, ACM Tyagi is the scapegoat for the media trial - phrases and catch lines like 'first Service Chief named in bribery case' etc will ensure the focus of mango abdul stays on these non-entities. I'm bloody sure that in terms of actual content of the entire selection process, nothing is going to come out against Tyagi. That does not mean that I place him above suspicion in terms of getting money for the job - my contention is that if he got paid, it was for simply the errand boy.

The intervention of PMO in the helicopter deal at a time when it was on its way into completion shows who pulled the strings and where money went into. The same PMO intervention would have brought the SPG into the equation with their added concerns of manin cargo hold dimensions and requirement being jacked up by 50% to 12 helicopters.

All in all, a very smooth operation as far as the main puppeteers are concerned.

These two points highlight what went wrong (or, right, depending on whom you refer to) in the entire process:

In such a situation, an intervention by the principal secretary to the prime minister and the silent acquiescence by the MoD and the air force HQ speaks volumes of the arbitrariness of the way this procurement was handled. Had the PMO addressed its concerns to the defence minister as head of the defence acquisition council and let matters evolve till the proposal came to the cabinet committee on security, it would have acted in keeping with the letter and spirit of the procurement procedure. By stooping to take on the role of changing the SQRs, it acted arbitrarily and in violation of the procedures. If IAF professionals then acted as mere doormats, it is indeed a sad reflection.This is where ACM Tyagi could have acted subservient to powers that be...if he has received money, it is more akin to sweat equity in a deal

The MoD release claims that “the procurement case was progressed in accordance with the established procurement procedure in a transparent manner with all stages of procurement being followed meticulously”. On the contrary, agencies external to the defence procurement process interfered at two crucial junctures. First, to halt procurement of a selected helicopter in the final stages and then to meddle with SQRs to allow the AgustaWestland helicopter to enter the race. By remaining a mute spectator, the MoD and the air force HQ became complicitWell - we know MOD would not have dared say anything against directives of PMO (READ: THE FAMILY). It is ACM Tyagi's role which shows that even top Service guys can be compromised.. The rest is history and the chickens are now coming home to roost.

And the real crux:

Now that the Central Bureau of Investigation has initiated a preliminary inquiry and the Rajya Sabha debated the issue and set up a joint parliamentary committee, the choppergate typhoon that hit New Delhi will pass, soon to be forgotten. If past performance is any indicator, the end is predictable. A few reputations and careers of servicemen will be destroyed, the arms agents will move on to the next deal and the real perpetrators and beneficiaries will live to enrich themselves another day, and all that the nation will be left with are the SQRs with their sanctity open to abuse and the morale of the armed forces further eroded

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 14 Mar 2013 13:49

One thing which this deal clearly brings out - PMO acts as an extension of FIRST FAMILY.

Time and again, there is a pattern which has been repeating itself - ALL the high-profile scams in this country owe their origins to acts of ommisison and commission by the PMO. MMS is simply the titular head of this country with Rajamata and baba and damaadji pulling all the strings through PMO.

vic · Post by **vic** » 14 Mar 2013 13:53

Salman Khurshit has in effect said that it is upto the Supreme Court to do what it wants and has washed his hands off the affair.