AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 15 Mar 2013 22:13

I dont know why, but I think tit-for-tat is a childs play, instead of tit-for-tat and going in circles, we act decisively and that should hurt them very bad, so bad that they confess and repent in the Vatican for acting like Mofos, the realization should be complete. Tit-for-Tat is like playing tennis.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Mar 2013 22:26

venug wrote:I dont know why, but I think tit-for-tat is a childs play, instead of tit-for-tat and going in circles, we act decisively and that should hurt them very bad, so bad that they confess and repent in the Vatican for acting like Mofos, the realization should be complete. Tit-for-Tat is like playing tennis.

There is a time for tit-for-tat. When something stops being a diplomatic or judicial matter and becomes a security matter.

Through all this we also have to remain who we are and stick to our values! (Harbans ji, don't pounce on me!)

For example, Atithi Satkaar is one fundamental value among us. So we cannot go around harassing Italian tourists. They should never be harmed, nor should one speak unkindly to them. Also to Italian media we should be friendly.

Italians would get hurt enormously. Indians are not going to forget or forgive them for this and this would cost them a lot in business, in tourism from India, in strategic cooperation, etc. Italians had already been sidelined in Europe by Germany and France and Britain as power-brokers. Ever more, they have less and less to sell to other countries, i.e. anything of high value. Designer stuff still sells. If Indians stop buying their designer stuff, it would hurt to some extent.

As far as economy is concerned Italy is on the verge of collapse as well. Indians can withhold any help there. That can hurt.

Also there would never be any more deals with their defense suppliers. That would hurt.

As Italy goes down as a nation, and Indian star rises, Italy would see how much it hurts them, but then the Italians are more-inward looking than even Americans, and that is saying something. They are provincial almost. Happy with their spaghetti.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 15 Mar 2013 22:33

Italy is a not a country of virtue and it is in a state of penury. Remember that its prime minister engaged an underage prostitute, and that there are enough God Fathers who would accept payment for another Italian job.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Mar 2013 22:38

For example, Atithi Satkaar is one fundamental value among us. So we cannot go around harassing Italian tourists. They should never be harmed, nor should one speak unkindly to them. Also to Italian media we should be friendly.

Even though 72% Italians have supported getting the marines back, there has been some outrage in the Italian media too:

According to La Stampa, a key factor behind the Italian government's decision was the delay in setting up the special court to try the marines as ordered by the Supreme Court of India.

Supreme Court had, in January, rejected a bid by the Italian government to transfer the case to Italy and said the marines would be tried in a special court in Delhi.

The daily Il Manifesto, however, described the Italian move as "scandalous."

The decision is scandalous "because the Italian government had given a formal undertaking that the two marines would return to stand trial under India law," said Il Manifesto.

The left-wing Il Manifesto was also critical of the way the marines were given a hero's welcome on their return.

"It is right to defend them (the accused marines) diplomatically. But to organise an escape is shameful," said Il Manifesto.

Italian Media's reaction mixed

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2013 22:50

Harbans ji , It was already posted by Varunkumar and quoted by me here.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1424364

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2013 23:00

Look like the Ital envoy will get expelled. UPA has to appear to do something or else further loss of face.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 Mar 2013 23:03

ramana wrote:Look like the Ital envoy will get expelled. UPA has to appear to do something or else further loss of face.

But that wouldn't close the chapter on this! The Italian Marines would still be absconding from Indian Justice, and our State would still have been made to look like an Idiot for letting them go!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2013 23:15

Envoy has not made any mistake by giving assurance. These Marines have jumped the bail/Parole. It is the responsibility of Italian Govt to produce them, i.e. if they accept Mr Kabirs Jurisdiction. Kabir was only too willing to let go and accept the assurances of the envoy. There are many a criminals who jump parole and sureties , sometimes , land in jail. But envoy would enjoy immunity notwithstanding the ~~farting~~ fumings of kabir after the horses have fled the stable. We should just enjoy the show and suffer kongis for few more months. If we are fools we would be rightly suffering them for next 60 months in 2014. We would be richly deserving the kick in the a$$ .

Mod has asked not to use derogatory comments. So striking out.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 15 Mar 2013 23:26

chaanakya wrote:Envoy has not made any mistake by giving assurance.

By being party to a court proceedings he has blown away his diplomatic immunity. Where was the complusion for him to enter into this situation? His entry was voluntary (ref: court's order) and now he will has to act as per court's directives.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Mar 2013 23:27

Moderation note.

Please avoid derogatory comments towards the Indian Supreme Court and its officials.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Mar 2013 23:37

Italy has countered the arguments given by India on the return of its two marines, saying New Delhi had wrongly detained them. Even as the two were detained by the order of the Supreme Court, it did not charge the marines. In the absence of any charges, they left the country.

Italy:Marines were detained without charges: Business Standard

Now the Kerala Police had file a chargesheet some 190 pages:

The 196-page charge-sheet, filed by Neendakara Coastal Police Station Circle Inspector R. Jayaraj on the 89th day of the marines' arrest, shows Lattore as the first accused and Girone as the second accused.

They were arrested by the State police on February 19 from the Italian-flagged ship Enrica Lexie on charges of opening fire at the fishing boat Saint Antony off the Ambalapuzha coast on February 15 allegedly killing two Indian fishermen.

The charge sheet comprises a 15-page description of offence and report, list of 126 documents, list and details of 48 material evidence, including arms and ammunition seized from the ship, and a list of 60 witnesses. The witnesses include the nine fishermen on board the fishing boat who survived the gunfire.

The charge sheet was prepared by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) of the police led by Kochi City Police Commissioner M.R. Ajit Kumar after nearly three months of investigation.

Kerala Police file chargesheet

During the period between January 18, when SC quashed Kerala state High Court’s right to prosecute the marines till March 11, when the Italian government formally communicated to India that the marines will not return, not a single action had been taken against the marines.

“As of now the SC had leveled no charges on them (the marines). SC was only determining who has the jurisdiction to prosecute them. The process of jurisdiction was not even initiated. As a result, India and Italy were to settle this jurisdiction issue and come to an understanding. Italy kept asking India for a diplomatic solution to this but there was no response from the Indian side,” the official said.

Technically, they were detained in India “without any charges.” So, legally, there is no case pending against them.

From the previous BS link.

Chanakya ji, does taking away/ negating the Kerala courts jurisdiction also squash the original chargesheet that was filed by the Kerala SIT?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2013 23:45

Also what is the penchant for massive dossiers for charge sheets?
After 26/11 attacks seems to be SOP of Indian Police to file massive and verbose chargesheets.

I understand PC sending massive dossiers to TSP for lack of capability to any thing different but this massive KP chargesheet looks like another exercise in intellectual chickenary!

*Chickenary:Hope the other guys chicken out when faced with massive dosas as opposed to chicanary where one resorts to subterfuge to fool someone or the other.

IN UPA case it is always to fool some of the Indian public which voted for them.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 16 Mar 2013 08:36

We should lock the Italian woman for this crime.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 16 Mar 2013 08:36

We should lock up the Italian Mama for this crime

vic · Post by **vic** » 16 Mar 2013 08:58

We should attach all sovereign assets and assets owned by Govt Companies of Italy in India. Start by
attaching and selling the embassy land which should fetch us around Rs. 1000 crores. Arresting the ambassador is not a good idea.

habal · Post by **habal** » 16 Mar 2013 09:19

ramana wrote:Also what is the penchant for massive dossiers for charge sheets?
After 26/11 attacks seems to be SOP of Indian Police to file massive and verbose chargesheets.

ha, that is nothing new. During my younger days, I had a scuffle with a policeman at a railway station for parking somewhere near the entrance porch. After a few days I received through mail a lengthy summons to railway court, which basically read like a cinema script. My actions resembled that of a hindi film villain and the writer of the story was a budding cinema scriptwriter whose passion was cut short by recruitment into police force. IIRC 4 or 5 long pages of drama & action for what was at best a 2-minute long event.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2013 16:01

harbans wrote:
Chanakya ji, does taking away/ negating the Kerala courts jurisdiction also squash the original chargesheet that was filed by the Kerala SIT?

No. The case would get transferred to the proper Court of Jurisdiction. In this case it would be Maritime Special Court set up under UNCLOS.

The point of dispute seems to be whether the Act of killing happened within Indian territorial waters or within the limits under UNCLOS i.2. 24 NM. It seems that GPS indicates that it was 22 NM. Italy says otherwise. Then the act of Killing itself and if it was in self defense or in discharge of legitimate duties. Whichever court has jurisdiction that would have to decide on this.

As of now India did not set up the Court despite SC asking it to do so.

SC seems to have ruled that India has jurisdiction to try those marines. And they would be tried in the Special Court. Italy says incident happened in international waters so it may try the case.

As far as filing charge sheet is concerned that has been done within stipulated time of 90 days. Accused persons of cognizable offense can be detained under criminal laws and filing charge sheet is not mandatory for detaining a person.
It is mostly same in all countries. Person is arrested and then charged and then convicted.

Express Waiver is the requirement and that has not been obtained before getting the assurance. People , in the know , know this. I dont think MEA or SC would not be knowing this. There is nothing called implied waiver. However Govt can take the other option that Diplomat has not followed the law of the host country if it has courage .

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2013 16:15

kenop wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Envoy has not made any mistake by giving assurance.
By being party to a court proceedings he has blown away his diplomatic immunity. Where was the complusion for him to enter into this situation? His entry was voluntary (ref: court's order) and now he will has to act as per court's directives.

Will he?? He continues to be immune from our idiocy. Doing anything to him would be utterly foolish unless you want major embarrassment at international level. See what happened in Purulia case. Davy escaped and found in Norway. He and his court is citing the very same examples which Harbansji told Italy might bring in this case. We may be angry and rightly so but that is how it would happen. davy escaped be cause our agencies were inept.

Others were tried and sentenced. Countries negotiated and agreed on a course of action which allowed them to send convicts to their countries and matter is settled. We may feel that harsher punishment should have been given but then international relations work like that. In this case India was only too inclined to help them out and even if sentenced they would have gone to Italy. Italy put their friends in tight spot and put their reputation , whatever it is, on the line. It will face continuing hostile environment whether marines come or not.

Targeting business people or tourists or their businesses etc is not a good idea. Why should we stoop to their level. You can break off the relationship rather than downgrading it without actually downgrading it . It is all smokescreen being created by kongis. By breaking off relations Italy will suffer big time.

In this entire episode institution of SC was compromised.
O

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 16 Mar 2013 17:38

India arrested Warren Anderson CEO of Union Carbide when he landed in India in the 80s. This despite his belief that since he was a big fish and US citizen, he probably would not be arrested. So maybe there's still hope..

Of course later he was let out on bail and mysteriously made it onto a private US jet waiting for him at the airport.

All too familiar story of murders being let go through the back door.

There is going to be a BIG loss of faith among NRIs in India if the gunda Italian ambassador does not see the inside of a jail cell. A weak & spineless country garners no respect. It only serves as a guarantee of more killings going unpunished in the future and who really wants to be affiliated with a culture of cowardice. Better to give up the Indian PIO/Citizenship..etc and invest your money & take your business elsewhere.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 16 Mar 2013 17:44

I think he has diplomatic immunity. You are welcome to take action against the nation he represents, but not against him individually.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 16 Mar 2013 17:49

Who cares about what immunity he has. The sillyness of adhereing to conventions when others all around are murdering if plain foolishness. There has been a murder committed and the country he represents is responsible for plotting the escape of the murderers. What convention is he following.

Only Indians engage in the foolishness of respecting rights & conventions when others violate them all round. Its an excuse for cowardise or inaction.

If the Indian govt can do nothing about murder of its citizens, who really wants to be Indian? At the very least, a govt is supposed to defend the lives of its citizens. If it can't do that, the Indian passport might have better use as toilet paper.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 16 Mar 2013 18:34

M K Bhadrakumar उवाच
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 ... of-reason/

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/colum ... 130313.htm

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 16 Mar 2013 19:00

Coverage of the Augusta-Westland India bribery case has reduced drastically in international media, this includes aviation industry magazines. Either they are pretending neutrality or Augusta-Westland is too influential a player in these circles.

The two terms under UPA has ensured that it is India who is made pariah yet again, if it comes to economics and attempts at negative canvassing of Augusta Westland and other Italian cos.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 16 Mar 2013 19:02

I am all for an intense, measured (but escalating) response short of actual physical confrontation.

However I oppose any act that leaves us as the 'guilty party'. Arresting the ambassador, or physically restraining his person- if he has immunity in this case- is counter productive. Kicking his Italian a$$ out of the country, shutting down all diplomatic relations with Italy is not.

Above all I fear that both emotional grandstanding and 'we do not have a case onlee' - two extremes on either side- are likely to obfuscate the issue and prevent the Indian state from developing a visible, just response.

And we owe it to ourselves to give that response. In full.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Mar 2013 19:19

its silly to talk of arresting the ambassador

we were the fools who took his word.

the EU and US control most of the world power structures and media and they would immediately tar us and we would shift to defending a lost cause.

better to kick the ass out, shut down all links

I cancelled my plan for rome vacation

eff them

vic · Post by **vic** » 16 Mar 2013 19:52

Italy was emerging as a major defense supplier, now it should be fxxked. The potential losses:-

Torpedoes
C-27
Radars
Naval guns
NH-90 etc

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 16 Mar 2013 20:14

Let us not fall into the trap of shifting the issue from one of Italy's deception to India's wrongful detention of a diplomat. That is exactly what would please the Italians.

Let him stay or go as he please from India. Don't declare him PNG--he can stay but cannot move freely outside Chanakyapuri except to leave the country and his credentials are de-recognized by the President of India. Make him irrelevant.

Review all GoI deals with Italians and use the Augusta incident to freeze all negotiations and follow-on orders and publicly castigate the embedded corruption of Italian companies doing business in India.

Keep the goals in mind: 1. Hang this around the neck of INC and Lady Macbeth and 2. Get the marines back.

Reacting calmly to these provocations and calibrating responses is key. After all, you don't want a Stephen Leacock scenario do you?

"He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse and rode madly off in all directions."

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... YKxBowP.99

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 16 Mar 2013 20:14

Vic, not only the loss of potential sales and goodwill do Augusta-Westland have to consider, but if US companies have been excluded from the bidding through bribery, the US DOJ are going to take a tough line. Witness the problems BAe have been having with the Justice department over bribery allegation regarding the Al-Yamana deal. Potentially they could lose access to US defence contracts especially at a time of shrinking budgets

Rajput · Post by **Rajput** » 16 Mar 2013 22:37

I'm just shaking my head, reading all the comments here. Please don't take it personally, but you all (at least, most of you) seem to be living in a parallel universe with no connection to reality.

"India should do this" and "India should do that" and "We should do <blah>" are all statements based on the assumption that the Italians misled the (poor, naive) Indian government. The poor simpletons of South Block (or is it North Block?) were taken for a ride by the conniving, cheating Italians. Nothing can be further from the truth!

The powers-that-be in India knew beforehand that this would happen! They're not stupid; and the Italians are not stupid to insult them like this! It was a handshake deal; you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Now, to placate the howling protests, they'll "sacrifice" the Italian ambassador (who was probably getting sick of India anyways), withhold our envoy for a few months, and it'll all blow over.

To summarise: the Italians and Indians knew what was going to happen; now they'll just do some sound-and-light show to soothe the anger.

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but: neither party (BJP or INC) would have done things differently. They just would have extracted different prices. Both exist to extract money from the people and the country. There are no saints. As an example: Rajnath Singh says BJP will get rid of foreign FDI in retail if they win. You know why? So the Walmarts and KMarts will fill their coffers now, in preparation for the elections. Once BJP wins, they'll make some noise and start their own scam machine. I guess my point is: there's no point in hoping that the BJP will do anything different than what INC does.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Mar 2013 23:28

Rajput wrote:I'm just shaking my head, reading all the comments here. Please don't take it personally, but you all (at least, most of you) seem to be living in a parallel universe with no connection to reality.

"India should do this" and "India should do that" and "We should do <blah>" are all statements based on the assumption that the Italians misled the (poor, naive) Indian government. The poor simpletons of South Block (or is it North Block?) were taken for a ride by the conniving, cheating Italians. Nothing can be further from the truth!

The powers-that-be in India knew beforehand that this would happen! They're not stupid; and the Italians are not stupid to insult them like this! It was a handshake deal; you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Now, to placate the howling protests, they'll "sacrifice" the Italian ambassador (who was probably getting sick of India anyways), withhold our envoy for a few months, and it'll all blow over.

To summarise: the Italians and Indians knew what was going to happen; now they'll just do some sound-and-light show to soothe the anger.

The title of the thread itself insinuates a handshake deal. Very few here are under the impression that Indians were taken for a ride by the Italians.

Rajput wrote:Sorry to burst your bubbles, but: neither party (BJP or INC) would have done things differently. They just would have extracted different prices. Both exist to extract money from the people and the country. There are no saints. As an example: Rajnath Singh says BJP will get rid of foreign FDI in retail if they win. You know why? So the Walmarts and KMarts will fill their coffers now, in preparation for the elections. Once BJP wins, they'll make some noise and start their own scam machine. I guess my point is: there's no point in hoping that the BJP will do anything different than what INC does.

Well that is your personal cynicism and you're entitled to it!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2013 23:39

What BJP will do is speculation and hypothetical. What kongis are doing is Fact and Reality. There is some difference if one can see.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 17 Mar 2013 00:22

vic wrote:Italy was emerging as a major defense supplier, now it should be fxxked. The potential losses:-

Torpedoes
C-27
Radars
Naval guns
NH-90 etc

Finmeccanica also owns 21% of Eurofighter. Any chance of the MMRCA decision being changed in its favour must also now be zero.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 17 Mar 2013 01:04

Fincantieri had some inputs for the Vikrant, is their contract over?
Or are they still design consultants?

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 17 Mar 2013 03:25

This is done, hand-wringing and extreme talk aside, what happens if the SC convicts the Italian Ambassador for contempt? It knows he cannot be punished. If this happens the GoI will have to deport the ambassador, and India / Italy will maintain downgraded relations.

Once he is back in Italy does the govt have the option to issue an InterPol notice for him? He will no longer be the ambassador so there is no diplomatic coverage for him. If this option can be utilized will the GoI of the day have the courage to do so? Or do treaty obligations prevent him ever paying the price for his govts duplicity?

Or carry out the trials in absentia for the marines, and if they are convicted of murder, issue Interpol notices for them. It would mean that any country they ever visit would be obligated to arrest them and send them back to India to serve their sentence, and that includes any European country they visit. Would France or any other European country exchange those marines for a multi-billion $ Rafale or some such similar deal - I'm betting they would do so. They have jobs to protect and constituents to keep happy. 2 marines convicted of murder and already guilty of avoiding justice has little weight compared to what they would be protecting.

That, however requires the govt. to follow-through, which is the real problem.

Its not ideal but I am hoping the govt has some plan like this in the works.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 17 Mar 2013 07:55

It is all crying over spilt milk actually the powers be wanted this kind out of come

You recall, a seer named Shankaracharya was framed with murder charges, a citizen of his own country
They put him in jail and denied bail saying he might flee in not so Westland helicopter to Nepal! Why at that time it was the only Hindu country now of course it turned peculiarly secular too thanks to India.

We being very secular and a peculiar government in power has different yard stick for higher souls.

True to the majority faith they looked at the horoscope of the seer and said he is passing through Sade sathi in his horoscope even Shiva could not escape Shani therefore Sankaracharya is no big deal.
So it's ok he be denied bail and the rulers of the country had ascending planets in Rajya sthana or house of lordship

This only maya

So forget spending energy in getting some marines who are under protection from our elite

B.Calm graduate for a minute and understand that what we have on debit side is only two lives we have still 1.2 billion souls needing liberation on the credit side

Not much sleep to lose

Think ! therefore we can not rationalize maya

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 17 Mar 2013 09:08

I apologize if posted earlier:
Italian mayor offers to host fishermen's children

Isn't this similar American spy Raymond episode? why is that these western guys are always ready to compensate life with money? will they allow Indian mayor to say the same when some Indian kill Italians in Italy? will they allow Indian killers to go back to India in the first place? why is Indian life so cheap?

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 17 Mar 2013 09:21

RajeshA wrote:
Rajput wrote:I'm just shaking my head, reading all the comments here. Please don't take it personally, but you all (at least, most of you) seem to be living in a parallel universe with no connection to reality.

"India should do this" and "India should do that" and "We should do <blah>" are all statements based on the assumption that the Italians misled the (poor, naive) Indian government. The poor simpletons of South Block (or is it North Block?) were taken for a ride by the conniving, cheating Italians. Nothing can be further from the truth!

The powers-that-be in India knew beforehand that this would happen! They're not stupid; and the Italians are not stupid to insult them like this! It was a handshake deal; you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Now, to placate the howling protests, they'll "sacrifice" the Italian ambassador (who was probably getting sick of India anyways), withhold our envoy for a few months, and it'll all blow over.

To summarise: the Italians and Indians knew what was going to happen; now they'll just do some sound-and-light show to soothe the anger.
The title of the thread itself insinuates a handshake deal. Very few here are under the impression that Indians were taken for a ride by the Italians.

Rajput wrote:Sorry to burst your bubbles, but: neither party (BJP or INC) would have done things differently. They just would have extracted different prices. Both exist to extract money from the people and the country. There are no saints. As an example: Rajnath Singh says BJP will get rid of foreign FDI in retail if they win. You know why? So the Walmarts and KMarts will fill their coffers now, in preparation for the elections. Once BJP wins, they'll make some noise and start their own scam machine. I guess my point is: there's no point in hoping that the BJP will do anything different than what INC does.
Well that is your personal cynicism and you're entitled to it!

To add to that, Rajput ji, please share any plan of action you may recommend going forward. Any suggestion will be warmly welcomed.

If your plan of action, however, is that we have no action, or nothing is likely to happen despite our trying, then I have nothing further to debate with you on the subject.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 17 Mar 2013 09:25

venug wrote:I apologize if posted earlier:
Italian mayor offers to host fishermen's children

Isn't this similar American spy Raymond episode? why is that these western guys are always ready to compensate life with money? will they allow Indian mayor to say the same when some Indian kill Italians in Italy? will they allow Indian killers to go back to India in the first place? why is Indian life so cheap?

That's great! Perhaps they can kill a few more of our citizens, so they can host a few more children.

How about I and a billion Indians start taking regular $hits on the Italian parliament, and offer to build a sewer all the way to the Mediterranean Sea ..

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 17 Mar 2013 09:31

Shalav wrote:This is done, hand-wringing and extreme talk aside, what happens if the SC convicts the Italian Ambassador for contempt? It knows he cannot be punished. If this happens the GoI will have to deport the ambassador, and India / Italy will maintain downgraded relations.

Once he is back in Italy does the govt have the option to issue an InterPol notice for him? He will no longer be the ambassador so there is no diplomatic coverage for him. If this option can be utilized will the GoI of the day have the courage to do so? Or do treaty obligations prevent him ever paying the price for his govts duplicity?

Or carry out the trials in absentia for the marines, and if they are convicted of murder, issue Interpol notices for them. It would mean that any country they ever visit would be obligated to arrest them and send them back to India to serve their sentence, and that includes any European country they visit. Would France or any other European country exchange those marines for a multi-billion $ Rafale or some such similar deal - I'm betting they would do so. They have jobs to protect and constituents to keep happy. 2 marines convicted of murder and already guilty of avoiding justice has little weight compared to what they would be protecting.

That, however requires the govt. to follow-through, which is the real problem.

Its not ideal but I am hoping the govt has some plan like this in the works.

If kongis are not interested in getting him back , what would you do?

Quattrocchi could not be brought back despite RCN and detained in several countries, not Italy, how would India do that in case of mancini who is nothing but messenger of italy.

You can issue RCN for two marines and try to get them back if they travel to other countries and if other countries detain them and extradite. But India is liable to be kicked in a$$ few more times given that kongis have sold themselves and the country inside out. Well India cant even get Abu Salem extradited without string attached.

If India has might , there are more fleets which would be passing through Indian Ocean and registered in Italy with Italy marine guards. Do we have guts??? OR shall we show the gun license to them that we have guns like NaMo said.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 17 Mar 2013 09:53

RajeshA wrote:.....
All Indians who are responsible for providing these Italian Marines, butchers of Indians, any more rights than those foreseen in international treaties, e.g. anything over and above diplomatic counsel before and during trial, should be arrested, declared traitors and shot in the head, and it should not matter if they are leaders of ruling parties, India's foreign minister, Supreme Court judges, or anybody else!

Traitors need to be shot!

Now that is a solution. If the people in the political or legal system know that doing something like this may cost them their lives (i.e. widow or brother or cousin of the fisherman accshidentally shooting the politician or a bureaucrat responsible for this saga) they would never let the marines go. Desh ki bahu somehow thinks that the people in south are so coward that they don't have the guts to end her the same way her husband was ended. Dharmic and non-violance crap has taken such serious toll on the desi psyche that it has become part of the DNA..