Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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RamaY
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

SwamyG wrote:Moi thinks he answers the 2002 question the way he does because it benefits him. Such a shrewd man could easily answer the way we want, he kind of keeps it alive.
Exactly. It unifies the secular fundamentalists and make them jokers in front of Bharatiyas and what/who not to be trusted.

Supratik wrote: As I said they have nothing against him except 2002. So they are going to bring it up again and again. His answer should be directed at the 1 billion voters. You or I don't need to be convinced. It is the aam admi who needs to be convinced who may not have the information or intelligence to dissect propaganda from reality. He should take the bull by the horns and say that Supreme Court cleared him and he did his best.
The public was convinced long long time ago, all over Bharat.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by VikramS »

Problem with any answer on 2002 is that it will be interpreted to suit the objectives of whoever you want to serve.

It is up to NaMo supporters to compare the administration's reaction to 2002 vs 1984. How long did it take the Army to be called? How many rioters died in Police action?How many people were charged? How many were convicted by Guj govt. itself? How many more convicted by the SIT?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

JavedAnsari 2 Modi - Aap darte hai. Modi: Main kisi se darta to yaha na ata 10 saal se dekh raha hu aap logo k khel
That is the summary of how Modi deals with the vermin. In that aspect 2002 ko nahi answer karne se he will keep the media rewind the old story and keep focus on Modi. Muft mea mil raha hai unko focus.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

^ exactly. "Vote bhi mila, Note bhi mila, TRP bhi mila" :mrgreen:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

SwamyG wrote:Moi thinks he answers the 2002 question the way he does because it benefits him. Such a shrewd man could easily answer the way we want, he kind of keeps it alive.
Whatever you think or not, you should read the posts on this forums as well. Somewhere in this thread there is a posting of Modi's answer to MP CM Digvijay Singh (DogVijay Singh) regarding 2002 riots in the same India Conclave in 2008. He asked for police help from MP/Raj/Mah and none came from those congress ruled states.

Why is that question not asked to DogVijay singh?

Why is Sonia never asked any question leave alone tough question and further any question on her "Maut Ka Saudagar"?

How come Beesta/Mutts and others are not asked to answer tough questions, particularly when they doing their services for the first parivar?

How come g.swamy, that you want Namo to answer your questions but not ask questions of Sonia, Maun Maun, Dog vijay, shendi? Are they not answerable for 2008, beheadings, italians going on cruises, crpf jawans killed?

2002 is old news. SIT/SC could not find anything to put him dock. It is people like Beestas and Mutts who have to answer now and institutions like Whoretown that need to do their answering. Journos want oxygen for their papers, their TRPs and seriously their reputations are getting dented now.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

Supratik wrote:...He should take the bull by the horns and say that Supreme Court cleared him and he did his best.
In this very Q&A he answered to part of what you ask. He did say he answered the supreme court (hint: this conclave is not the court) and for the rest he has already answered.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

Muppalla wrote:Added later:
One more thing, he did say a train connecting Goa churches. He did do an equal=equal.
Muppalla'ji., I am glad that he brought in Ajmer Sharif from Haji Pir and Goa Churches. He also brought in Amritsar from Patna and of course Hindu pilgrim centers. The context was privatization and within that use the 125 crore population to connect the pilgrim centers.

The point is, he is thinking Pan-India. Second he is thinking of every citizen irrespective of religion. And third he is bringing in internal tourism. His point is this centers in India should be given primacy. This is India first.

One should not look at it as doing equal=equal. In fact, with this his appeal has gone to the next level - what will the voter in patna now think of Laloo the rail minister?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

negi wrote:Well we don't even need to go down to those details as a CM he is not the one responsible for doing the feasibility analysis for solar panels over water bodies; that is the job of the Engineers on site and the advisors who work with the CM . Modi is actually a karma-yogi unlike the napunsak Oxbridge graduated chamcha at the center who despite being given the opportunity to run the country for 2 terms has ghanta to show and instead has the temerity to sing praises about British rule and thousands of kms of road they built during their rule; if he had an iota of shame in him he could have overseen construction of some hundred kms of national highways but then that is too much to ask from the shikhandi; 'theek hain'.
+1
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

disha wrote: Whatever you think or not, you should read the posts on this forums as well. Somewhere in this thread there is a posting of Modi's answer to MP CM Digvijay Singh (DogVijay Singh) regarding 2002 riots in the same India Conclave in 2008. He asked for police help from MP/Raj/Mah and none came from those congress ruled states.

Why is that question not asked to DogVijay singh?

Why is Sonia never asked any question leave alone tough question and further any question on her "Maut Ka Saudagar"?

How come Beesta/Mutts and others are not asked to answer tough questions, particularly when they doing their services for the first parivar?

How come g.swamy, that you want Namo to answer your questions but not ask questions of Sonia, Maun Maun, Dog vijay, shendi? Are they not answerable for 2008, beheadings, italians going on cruises, crpf jawans killed?

2002 is old news. SIT/SC could not find anything to put him dock. It is people like Beestas and Mutts who have to answer now and institutions like Whoretown that need to do their answering. Journos want oxygen for their papers, their TRPs and seriously their reputations are getting dented now.
+1

And irrespective of whether he answers the question or the way he answers the question is not going to stop the psecs from asking him the very same thing again.

The psecs are mega- browning their pants that their easy access to power centers and funding will stop if he comes to administer Bharat.

I am still an EVM Magic CT believer and will be surprised if the BJP, in whatever form, runs the Central Govt in 2014 -- in as much I believe that NaMo is the only silver bullet for Bharat and nothing would give me more pride that when he becomes the leader of this beautiful country.

A great presentation at the conclave today. He looks at his watch and asks "samay hai na?"..the moderator gestures as if to say the floor is yours..and he looks at the audience and asks "shall i continue?"..and when they agree he says something to the effect of "the people will always have the final word"...<applause>
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

negi wrote:Well we don't even need to go down to those details as a CM he is not the one responsible for doing the feasibility analysis for solar panels over water bodies; that is the job of the Engineers on site and the advisors who work with the CM . Modi is actually a karma-yogi unlike the napunsak Oxbridge graduated chamcha at the center who despite being given the opportunity to run the country for 2 terms has ghanta to show and instead has the temerity to sing praises about British rule and thousands of kms of road they built during their rule; if he had an iota of shame in him he could have overseen construction of some hundred kms of national highways but then that is too much to ask from the shikhandi; 'theek hain'.
Well, i dont disagree with you. Neither did i say he needed to know the details.

But the fact that The Man can provide that much of detail shows how hands on he is. And that i respect.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

Deleted duplicate post
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

There is nothing wrong, if core supporters question modi on the issue of speaking about namaz or koran in train, or special trains to goa churches. Here is a guy who refrained from such things, why bring it now and that too in a speech not in the q&a.

Frankly i am disappointed, those references were totally uncalled for beginning to sound like advani. I thought modi was different, he is already buckling, god knows how much haj subsidy will go up if he becomes PM.

Even if someone says, this is all just only speech, he actions wont reek of any such thing. I fail to understand the significance of such references even for electoral purposes, he wont gain a single vote from the other side because of this, but he has plenty to lose ( in me i see a die-hard modi fan becoming a fence sitter after the speech ). The moot point is, here is guy who has publicly refrained from speaking about the abrahamic religions, doing them any favors so far, why talk about their mosques and churches now? That too when the situation never called for it, he brought that up all by himself
Last edited by muraliravi on 16 Mar 2013 23:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

muraliravi wrote:There is nothing wrong, if core supporters question modi on the issue of speaking about namaz or koran in train, or special trains to goa churches. Here is a guy who refrained from such things, why bring it now and that too in a speech not in the q&a.

Frankly i am disappointed, those references were totally uncalled for beginning to sound like advani. I thought modi was different, he is already buckling, god knows how much haj subsidy will go up if he becomes PM.
He was talking about a privatised "pilgrimage" train, for Gods sake!!!!!!

If he mentions just Hindus going to Rishikesh, then you will shout from the roof tops that he is a non- secular Hindu "fundamentalist"!!!!!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

rajithn wrote:
muraliravi wrote:There is nothing wrong, if core supporters question modi on the issue of speaking about namaz or koran in train, or special trains to goa churches. Here is a guy who refrained from such things, why bring it now and that too in a speech not in the q&a.

Frankly i am disappointed, those references were totally uncalled for beginning to sound like advani. I thought modi was different, he is already buckling, god knows how much haj subsidy will go up if he becomes PM.
He was talking about a privatised "pilgrimage" train, for Gods sake!!!!!!

If he mentions just Hindus going to Rishikesh, then you will shout from the roof tops that he is a non- secular Hindu "fundamentalist"!!!!!
No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

rajithn wrote:
He was talking about a privatised "pilgrimage" train, for Gods sake!!!!!!

If he mentions just Hindus going to Rishikesh, then you will shout from the roof tops that he is a non- secular Hindu "fundamentalist"!!!!!

+1
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

SwamyG wrote:When were Rahul, Sonia or MMS asked such interesting tough questions. The tougher the questions, the more the traps it means Modi is being tweaked and molded by fire.
Why the double standards? Why tweaking and molding one by fire and other by rose petals? Why the sense of entitlement for the first parivar? Question that first. Leave the tweaking and molding by fire to the aam junta.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

muraliravi wrote:....No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
muraliji, maybe then the problem is with you sir? As a CM he is looking at a governance model with equality for everybody. He is not into entitlements. The muslims and x-tians who will not vote are also Bharatiyas first. Just like A. Kalam.

He explained his idea for secularism is India First. No entitlements and all treated equally. If you want special entitlements at the cost of others, then of course he is not your person. It is tough initially, to go from dependent to self-dependent, that part will lead to despondency to several who rely on mai-baap privs. What he is pointing out is that there is no need for mai-baap privs. Make everybody independent. That is a great step in political thinking and it worked in Gujarat - not once, twice but three times and is confident that it will work in India. Just give him a chance.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

muraliravi wrote:No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
1. He was not talking about plgrimages as a subject. The context was privatisation of the railways. And he said one direct approach to access a 100 crore market place is to run "pilgrimage" trains. That was an EXAMPLE.

2. Bharat in its true form is an all encompassing, welcoming land that assimilates people of all hues. When he becomes the leader of this country he will also have to represent a manifestation of Bharat. Which is assimiilation of all people. Get them to think "India First". Bharat First.

Its not secularism or psuedo- secularism, as we are used to by experience with the rest of the clowns. This is the true Bharat: the ability of this blessed land to assmilate people, however backward, barbaric or obstinate they may be. He is going to be the leader who will represent Bharat in its true form. And like Disha says he doesnt, and rightly so, have time for people who believe in entitlements and the victimisation game.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by jimmyray »

muraliravi wrote:There is nothing wrong, if core supporters question modi on the issue of speaking about namaz or koran in train, or special trains to goa churches. Here is a guy who refrained from such things, why bring it now and that too in a speech not in the q&a.

Frankly i am disappointed, those references were totally uncalled for beginning to sound like advani. I thought modi was different, he is already buckling, god knows how much haj subsidy will go up if he becomes PM.
You don't need enemies if your 'core' supporters are really like this. :roll:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

rajithn wrote:He was talking about a privatised "pilgrimage" train, for Gods sake!!!!!!

If he mentions just Hindus going to Rishikesh, then you will shout from the roof tops that he is a non- secular Hindu "fundamentalist"!!!!!
+1.

The question one should ask is maun-maun-sonia preferable or NaMo? The choice is stark and clear at this stage.

In fact the crowd was so derisive of maun-maun., in the speech NaMo mentions that he had a meeting with maun-maun., at first both were silent and then he was speaking. The derisiveness from the crowd for maun-maun was clear.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

disha wrote:He explained his idea for secularism is India First. No entitlements and all treated equally. If you want special entitlements at the cost of others, then of course he is not your person. It is tough initially, to go from dependent to self-dependent, that part will lead to despondency to several who rely on mai-baap privs. What he is pointing out is that there is no need for mai-baap privs. Make everybody independent. That is a great step in political thinking and it worked in Gujarat - not once, twice but three times and is confident that it will work in India. Just give him a chance.
disha garu, that is not the question or context. Modi ji all the while had maintained a style. Only when someone asks questions about secularism he answers. His answers are brilliant like "India First" and secularism means "equality for all" etc. As a matter of image maintenance he never accepts any thing like topi etc. He does not talk in the speeches some thing like he did today.

I don't think he did anything wrong but what I think is this is the first I have ever observed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anjan »

muraliravi wrote: I fail to understand the significance of such references even for electoral purposes, he wont gain a single vote from the other side because of this, but he has plenty to lose ( in me i see a die-hard modi fan becoming a fence sitter after the speech ).
May I ask which candidate is on the other side of the fence for you?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

disha wrote:
In fact the crowd was so derisive of maun-maun., in the speech NaMo mentions that he had a meeting with maun-maun., at first both were silent and then he was speaking. The derisiveness from the crowd for maun-maun was clear.
He did like that on four different occasions. The last one was ultimate. I have given advices to PM ji. PM ji did appreciate it. Implementation keliye You need an able person in that seat to implement. :)

a very very cool sentence and a potshot.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

muraliravi wrote:No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
Context. Context. Context.

There is a tamil saying " vidiya vidiya ramayanam kettu sitakku raman chittappa" loosly translated it means a person who listens to Ramayan at dawn and says Rama is Sita's uncle!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Atri »

Fantastic speech..

Vande Mataram !!!!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

rajithn wrote:
muraliravi wrote:No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
1. He was not talking about plgrimages as a subject. The context was privatisation of the railways. And he said one direct approach to access a 100 crore market place is to run "pilgrimage" trains. That was an EXAMPLE.

2. Bharat in its true form is an all encompassing, welcoming land that assimilates people of all hues. When he becomes the leader of this country he will also have to represent a manifestation of Bharat. Which is assimiilation of all people. Get them to think "India First". Bharat First.

Its not secularism or psuedo- secularism, as we are used to by experience with the rest of the clowns. This is the true Bharat: the ability of this blessed land to assmilate people, however backward, barbaric or obstinate they may be. He is going to be the leader who will represent Bharat in its true form. And like Disha says he doesnt, and rightly so, have time for people who believe in entitlements and the victimisation game.
Here is a guy who over the last 5 years has made the following statements:

1. At a Shivaji Maharaj related speech in Mumbai -"India was a land of hindus that was invaded by muslims and people forcibly converted"

2. In an interview, Gandhi wanted laws against proselytizers, "X-tians and muslims can be reconverted to hindus, but hindus should not be allowed to be converted"

3. To Shahid Siddique on question of akhand bharat, " India is secular becos it is a hindu majority country and pakistan and afghanistan which used to be secular are now fundamentalist, because they are islamic countries"

4. In 2009 in pune at a public rally: "Ishwar never exhorted hindus to terrorism, but maybe allah has done so for muslims"

And now modi is this all great secular guy for you, and India is a land of assimilation.

Maybe tomorrow, modi will say uniform civil code is also not needed, maybe he will say bangladeshis also should be assimilated and maybe even a train with namaz from kolkata to dhaka.

To me he has changed or he is trying to change for worse.

So if modi becomes pm, he will not pass uniform civil code, he will not expel bangladeshis (becos you want the modi who subscribes to india assimilating everyone), he did not even have the balls when that guy asked what is root of the kashmir problem to say "the root lies in article 370, we should remove it and get pok back. instead he talks about people to people interaction between gujarat and karachi and trade will stop terror. I mean are u frigging kidding me, this is surely not the modi I know. Who used to say, pakistan ko uske basha mein jawab dena chahiye.

So he does not have time for victimization believers, what will he do to stop victimization, did he say anything about pandits, when the question of kashmir was raised, but oh sure he has time to rant about koran in railways.

to me is he is now just like any other WKK. And mind you this is all now at a conclave, maybe after becoming pm, bukari handshake is next.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

by the way Conclave13 and NaMo are the top trending topics (worldwide) on Twitter. This man's every breath is being counted these days.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

anjan wrote:
muraliravi wrote: I fail to understand the significance of such references even for electoral purposes, he wont gain a single vote from the other side because of this, but he has plenty to lose ( in me i see a die-hard modi fan becoming a fence sitter after the speech ).
May I ask which candidate is on the other side of the fence for you?
none, not voting is on the other side
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

disha wrote:
SwamyG wrote:When were Rahul, Sonia or MMS asked such interesting tough questions. The tougher the questions, the more the traps it means Modi is being tweaked and molded by fire.
Why the double standards? Why tweaking and molding one by fire and other by rose petals? Why the sense of entitlement for the first parivar? Question that first. Leave the tweaking and molding by fire to the aam junta.
It is not double standards, it is natural tendencies of humans. Like I said it before, once again I will say it.....

In organizations, there evolves a go-to person (or teams) who raise above others because of their passion, capability and accomplishments. People rush to them with their problems seeking solutions, they are asked tough questions about their field (and outside their expertise as well). Because people look up to them. Only competent people get questions, incompetent people and mediocre people are not looked up to; neither managers nor others seek their presence or opinion. Everybody understand who is needed and who is not needed, the sheer attention and focus is a dead-giveaway. We such people all the time, at work, at universities, in families, in friends circle ityadi. We recognize the alpha male, and only the alpha males get challenged - not the weak and chalta hain ones.

Another way to look at this is how the elite want to support Modi, and yet there are some lingering questions. They want a reason to support him, and only such action will convince them slowly. Each time Modi goes through the fire, he comes out glazed and not burnt. That shows his quality. You put clay and straw through fire, one gets burned the other comes out solid - solider than earlier :-) Shinier than ever :-)

One can rejoice at the leader hitting sixes all the time, or cry that the leader has to face Yorkers and bouncers all the time. I rejoice. Moi happy to see such leaders. Screw BJP or INC, desh needs such leaders who inspire others, bring comfort to the financiers and business people, and provide opportunities to the aam junta.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by VikramS »

muraliravi:

I like Modi because of his developmental agenda.
If India develops all the other issues will be moot.

If you feel that he does not agree with your vision then go find some other leader who does.

Modi needs to win the vote not only those who agree with his vision, but also those who doubt his agenda. That includes a vast number of Dharmics, and at least a few Xtians & perhaps even a few Muslims (gasp).
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

muraliravi wrote:No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
Dude, Indian Muslims & Indian Christians are citizens of India, it does not matter if they vote or not vote for Modi. As an elected leader he has to take care of the fears and aspirations of all the citizens. And by including them in his speech, he did the right thing. He is not a Hindu mutt acharya or guru to talk just about Hindus.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

SwamyG wrote:
muraliravi wrote:No i have no problem if modi speaks about hindu pilgrimages, but i do have a problem if he speaks about muslim and x-tian pilgrimages. Boss, we all know that muslims and x-tians will not spare a vote for modi, so no point trying to get them on board. So why did he do it, is he trying to be truly secular, then hell, i dont want that.
Dude, Indian Muslims & Indian Christians are citizens of India, it does not matter if they vote or not vote for Modi. As an elected leader he has to take care of the fears and aspirations of all the citizens. And by including them in his speech, he did the right thing. He is not a Hindu mutt acharya or guru to talk just about Hindus.
Yah yah, he will also talk about our dear brothers in karachi and how trade with them will reduce terror
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

Some people you cannot reason with.
disha
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

muraliravi wrote:...And now modi is this all great secular guy for you, and India is a land of assimilation.
Is it not? If A. Kalam is Bharat Ratna and could become the most popular president in this generation irrespective of his religion and just by the dint of his hardwork, isn't India truly a land of assimilation? Which other nation on earth has that?
Maybe tomorrow, modi will say uniform civil code is also not needed, maybe he will say bangladeshis also should be assimilated and maybe even a train with namaz from kolkata to dhaka.
Regarding UCC, now thinking about it, actually he should do that. He should say there is no need for uniform civil code. But there is need for women's right bill where a man cannot marry more than one at a time, should provide alimony and child support, should have a registered marriage with appropriate witnesses wherever and whatever means that marriage takes place, should have appropriate separation and divorce procedures. Isn't it that UCC? Let the mullahs fight against the women's right bill? Aren't women also citizens of India? Do not they vote as well?

And a train from kolkota to dhaka is your fear. Why not? Why not assimilate BD into India's orbit? Why not the mullahs in BD be painted into a corner?
To me he has changed or he is trying to change for worse.
You wanted to hear X and he said Y and you cannot get behind the nuance of Y so you are frustrated. I cannot stop that, but a study came out on how people who dig into an opinion miss the message if the message is not "tuned". And how changing the message itself may change the opinion. For eg. if you go and say to a republican that coal burning plants contribute to global warming because of CO2 emissions and CO2 scrubbers need to be installed and government will subside it., still the republican will throw you out of the door. Now if you go and say to the same republican that the government needs calcium carbonate to rebuild the great cities of US and that Co2 from their coal plants is a great resource all they need to do is capture the CO2 and supply it, they will install the scrubbers with great enthusiasm. In other words, there is a nuanced way to even do "chuna lagao".

It is just sad that you do not get it and paint yourself in a corner.
So if modi becomes pm, he will not pass uniform civil code, he will not expel bangladeshis (becos you want the modi who subscribes to india assimilating everyone), he did not even have the balls when that guy asked what is root of the kashmir problem to say "the root lies in article 370, we should remove it and get pok back.
First step is for India to be corruption free, capture the knowledge economy, improve governance, become the weapon supplier to the world, do skill-speed-scale, do 2G2P etc. The rest will automatically come. Corruption in armed forces should go. He did say that diplomacy with neighbours should be kept with interests of India in mind. That is again India first diplomacy. If it requires that SH govt. in BD requires some free electricity to keep the mullahs in check - so be it.
So he does not have time for victimization believers, what will he do to stop victimization, did he say anything about pandits, when the question of kashmir was raised, but oh sure he has time to rant about koran in railways.
...
to me is he is now just like any other WKK. And mind you this is all now at a conclave, maybe after becoming pm, bukari handshake is next.
Sir, at this stage you are painting yourself into a corner with pet peeves. Nothing stopped the pandits from Kashmir to get together, identify resources in their own and help themselves. Pandits in India are treated as "internal refugees" and they are entitled to avail of benefits that come from that status. They can use it, raise themselves to position of power and weild it. If they help themselves, others will.

You want NaMo to cover all of that in a single sentence, that is not going to happen. And if you want to remain unconvinced, there is no point in convincing you.

There is a saying, "a partial blind maternal uncle is better than no maternal uncle". The point is you have a stark contrast - do you want Maun Maino Sigh to be at the cabal for next 5 years or do you want a doer like NaMo in the place. You can always bring up the next issue on the list if it is priority enough for the nation.

For now, the nation is siezed with a sinking economy and a dearth of opportunities. For them development means a way to better their lives. Isn't that a priority in itself?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

muraliravi wrote: Yah yah, he will also talk about our dear brothers in karachi and how trade with them will reduce terror
If you noticed, he already did talk about good relations between Gujarati (or people in general) and people in Karachi. Boss, irrespective of our pet peeves and personal likes and dislikes, an elected leader has to work for his constituency. India is not Pakistan, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh where only some get the benefit.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

muraliravi, an intelligent politician will tailor his speech according to his audiences. You will get a chance to judge his actions if he becomes PM unless you haven't already judged him as CM which we have done and are pretty satisfied.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by rajithn »

muraliravi wrote:Yah yah, he will also talk about our dear brothers in karachi and how trade with them will reduce terror
If he then makes the "karachi brother" to say "Bharat First. India First", and the "brother" doesnt look for entitlements .....havent we won already?

And if he doesnt, then Bharat doesnt have to assimilate him. Annihilate then. The "karachi brother" that is.

My point is that we shouldnt worry about the faith of the person. As long as he believes "Bharat first. India first" and is willing to do everything he needs to do as a citizen of this country, then he has as much right to be in this country as you or I.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anjan »

muraliravi wrote:
anjan wrote:May I ask which candidate is on the other side of the fence for you?
none, not voting is on the other side
Then the other side filling the ballots win by default. Ultimately in a democracy you vote for the side you dislike the least. Not voting is always and without exception the worst option in our system. OTOH if people will only vote if the candidate shares the exact same world view it goes a long way towards explaining why minority vote banks are so powerful in India. They atleast can be counted on to turn up. Probably makes them better citizens while they're at it.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

anjan wrote: Then the other side filling the ballots win by default. Ultimately in a democracy you vote for the side you dislike the least. Not voting is always and without exception the worst option in our system. OTOH if people will only vote if the candidate shares the exact same world view it goes a long way towards explaining why minority vote banks are so powerful in India. They atleast can be counted on to turn up. Probably makes them better citizens while they're at it.
That is exactly the point. Don't attack the messenger. Analyze the message. I am not supporting muraliravi.

If I were you, I will first analyze what muraliravi wrote. Is there a core vote that will get pissed off. It is the question that we should ask. If there is such a core even though that is nut-case (as you make it to be) will it be important? Is it better to not rupture such nut-cases and make them sit at home. Did he get extra votes by bringing in business making trains between two muslim centers and to a church center? To get extra brownie points from the likes of anjan did his line if repeated again (say in another speech) pisses off the 2% core vote?

There are several examples from BJP leaders. What muraliravi is bringing is an apprehention of a new Jinnah-speech moment. I truly don't believe at all that Modi has erred but it is an interesting analysis from a electoral point of view.

We all want to see Modi the leader replace the trash we have. But Indian voters are made of several colors. First accept that this particular speech some different observations which are not typical of his past speeches. No doubt it is a great way. Everyone here knows the great heritage of assimilation and Indian culture. However, it is also important to see all colors and their implications.

Instead of doing such math style analysis BRF is turning to preaching about assimilation, secularism, bharateeya inclusion and other jargon.
Last edited by Muppalla on 17 Mar 2013 01:22, edited 1 time in total.
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