AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Mar 2013 20:45

Anyone think of Jabba the Hutt when you see a pic of Justice Altamas Kabir?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Mar 2013 20:48

chaanakya wrote:Italian envoy has no diplomatic immunity, can't leave India till April 2: SC
..

It is very shocking how Italian embassy breaches undertaking to courts after sovereign guarantee and then talk of Vienna convention of immunity to diplomats, or says that it was done on behalf of Italian Govt and so nothing personal only! This after the honorable court, in spite of being very busy and still ready to judge the case with enough considerations given as pleaded by Italians. Now the honorable court has to deal with 'note verbale' etc from Italian side in an important matter, even after clearly indicating loss of trust. Italians still talking about not impeding movement of the ambassador while the honorable court has to reminding Italians to be more 'aware'.

It is indeed weird how all this keeps going on and on from first world Italians by default. No one has to do anything at all to begin with. Italians will keep this on after incident of shooting Indian fishermen in Indian waters.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Mar 2013 21:02

At times, the firang nations have to be jolted to their senses, else this tamasha of putting down 'third world nations' will continue. Our Army said we have the capacity to conduct Osama type operations. Then Just go and get them, else 'bump the marines' off, ...we will be even. We can always announce later that being a 'third world nation', India doesn't have such capabilities, so we can always deny it vehemently, even denounce such barbaric actions. If our bluff is called, then blame it on 'non-state actors'. After all westerns nations think it is kosher for Pak to have non-state actors, so it should be fine for us to have non-state actors as well. If not now, we still can wait and when the time is appropriate we can act on it, Justice must be done sooner or later.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 18 Mar 2013 21:05

^^all this avoiding or boycott of Italian companies prob wont happen. Even at the height of Bhopal gas tragedy people continued to use union-carbide products.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Mar 2013 21:07

The White Woman and India
Published on Mar 18, 2013
By François Gautier

Both the Italian and Indian Government seem headed for a confrontation. It’s a mystery as to why at this particular juncture

There is no doubt that Mrs. Gandhi has enjoyed for long a privileged relationship with the Italian Government. Travelling secretly abroad to meet her family in Italy or for other reasons, the Italian Government and its secret services had to be cooperating to coordinate her arrivals and grant her the VIP status that her rank deserves. And although Mrs Gandhi has been trying very hard to discard her Italian identity, there are many Italians who are proud that one of theirs is ranked as one of the most powerful women in the world.

The question is why then suddenly the Italians do something that is bound to embarrass Mrs Gandhi? What has happened? Is it a coincidence that the Italian Govt’s slap in the face of India, comes after the Finmeccanica helicopters’ scandal? Does that mean that the Italian Govt not only has no fear of the scandal, but also knows some secret that could embarrass the Government of India?

At any rate, Mrs Gandhi finds herself in an uncomfortable position: if she keeps quiet, she will be seen as siding with the Italians; if she protests, she risks getting retaliated at by the Italian Govt,. What will she do?

Yet, there is complete silence on the part of the Congress. And even the Press is mum about this crucial aspect of the Italian Marines’ story. It is as if Mrs Gandhi is a saint that can do no harm.

And again I ask myself the question which has baffled me for 40 years, although I am myself a white man and a born Christian: why do Indians have such an attraction towards the White Skin ?

Does India, one of the most ancient civilization of this planet, need a White woman to govern Her ? I am sure that Sonia has great qualities, but are Indians so dumb, stupid, backwards, that they cannot find amongst themselves someone intelligent enough, non corrupt enough to lead them ? We witnessed the same phenomenon with Mother Teresa. She may have been a saint, but nobody has harmed so much India’s image in the 20th century: when you say India in the West, their eyes light-up and they answer : “Mother Teresa / Calcutta / Poor people / dumb people / starving people / who do no know how to care after their own underprivileged / Who need a White woman to show them how to pick-up dying in the street / to look after orphans” ! Is this the image that Indians want today ? An image that is harming them, which is stopping western businessmen from investing in India ? Yet Mother Teresa is worshipped here, from Calcutta to Chennai, from Delhi to Bangalore and when she will be made a saint by the Vatican, perpetuating this colonial, superior-minded, Christian symbol of White superiority over the Brown/Black man, the whole Indian media will rejoice in their own mental slavery and the Indian Government will probably declare a national holiday!

Also read the rest! Basically he is saying the same thing we do, but it just doesn't feel good ...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Mar 2013 21:36

YeSCee is asking question today and telling that Mancini has no immunity. Tomorrow they , read Kabir, will turn around and say mancini has immunity as there was no express waiver and hence even though he is in contempt of court , basically a bamboo up their a$$ without mandatory oiling to ease the pain, he cant be arraigned by Judiciary. Remember first few days of hearing in VKS case when YeSCee was talking about birth certificate and then the amazing turnaround. and Now see the same Birthcertificate is so sacrosanct in Delhi rapist case. They are too compromised. Expecting to get NHRCee post I suppose.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Mar 2013 00:23

ramana wrote:Anyone think of Jabba the Hutt when you see a pic of Justice Altamas Kabir?

Antilia the Hut is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antilia_%28building%29

Altamas = Jabba the Butt

Come to think of it, Altamas is a better name for the building

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 19 Mar 2013 00:26

Nice one from MJ Akbar in TOI: [url}http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... -comic-con[/url]

Falling for yet another comic con
MJ Akbar
17 March 2013, 04:45 AM IST

When clever people come to power they often make a simple mistake. They think the rest of us are fools.

Note the first substantive suggestion , as distinct from political verbiage , that the UPA gover nment made in order to “punish” Italy, after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh decreed that Rome had taken the “unacceptable” decision to give safe haven to marines accused of murder by violating a parole given by India’s Supreme Court. The Supreme Court acted on an assurance from Italy’s ambassador in Delhi Daniele Mancini, through an affidavit, that the marines would return to India. What did UPA “threaten” to do? It wanted to expel Mancini.

This would have been the perfect complicit coup between Delhi and Rome. Mancini is the one ranking Italian on Indian soil who can be held accountable. The UPA wanted him to escape through false dust. Once he left India, Congress could have officially begun to chase him with the same dedication and diligence it has shown in pursuit of Bofors-accused Ottavio Quattrochi. A clearly upset Supreme Court, acting on the intervention of Subramaniam Swamy, sabotaged this neat ploy; otherwise Mancini would have been dancing all the way back to another posting. His replacement would have arrived in a couple of months, with minimum fanfare and maximum noise about the larger interests of Indo-Italian relations. The dust would settle. Game over.

Since Italy is famous for the harlequin, a stock comic character in its commedia dell’Arte , it is perfectly logical that this staged drama included a large dollop of farce. There has been no bigger joke in recent times than the Italian argument before the Supreme Court that the marines were desperately needed at home to vote in Italy’s national elections. Clearly, we have all been taught a lie in school: democracy did not begin in Greece, but in Italy. Rome’s passionate zeal for the ballot box is such that it will go to any extent, including prevarication before a Supreme Court, to protect a marine’s right to vote.

The surprise is that the Supreme Court proved so gullible. Let us assume, for a moment, that the future of Italy did indeed rest on whether the marines voted for either a somber jester called Beppe Grillo, leader of the Five Star Movement, or Silvio Berlusconi, who practices at night what the Kama Sutra merely preaches by day. The marines could have sent in their decision by postal ballot. How did Mancini and his fellow Italians in the Delhi mission vote? Did the Italian government send business class tickets to Mancini so that he could go to a booth in his neighbourhood parish? Or should we believe that Italian boys, like the young marines, never vote without consulting their mamma; and mamma never discusses what Berlusconi has been up to on the phone?

The Supreme Court gave marines four weeks of furlough . That does seem a bit excessive for a duty that takes a day. Has the court, in this case, operating on two sets of law, one for Italians and one for Indians? The marines were permitted to go home for Christmas last year. By this precedence, every Indian accused of murder , not to mention lesser crimes like rape, should be allowed to go home to mummy for Holi, Easter, Id and Diwali.

As events unfold, questions bubble up. One of the big mysteries of the last union cabinet reshuffle was the sudden departure of veteran Congress leader S M Krishna from the external affairs ministry. True, he had goofed up once, when he began reading out the wrong speech at the United Nations. But this is nothing on the scale of home minister Sushil Shinde, who performed a similar feat in Parliament, and in addition makes sure that not a week passes without adequate entertainment forreporters. The Prime Minister had no grounds for complaint against Krishna. Krishna faithfully implemented the PM’s soft line on Pakistan, despite the usual sequence of provocations. If Krishna was less than outstanding in handling his portfolio, he was not incompetent either. Moreover, he had not committed any political faux pas that would have hurt Congress chances in the coming Karnataka elections, as Beni Prasad Verma did in Uttar Pradesh. Why was Krishna dropped?

Could it be that Congress needed a pliable foreign minister who could be trusted not only to collude with Italy in a delicate pirouette, but also to hold his tongue for all time in the future?

Since no one explains, these matters can only dwell in the realm of speculation. But we can say one thing with sufficient authority. India’s foreign policy is now fashioned by the idealism of that great American philosopher and public intellectual, Groucho Marx. As Groucho once said, ‘I have principles! And if you don’t like them, I have others…’

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Mar 2013 02:54

Italian naval guards will be brought back: Chandy

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2013 03:04

Gerard wrote:Italian naval guards will be brought back: Chandy

This silly fellow didn't say a word when a Kerala high court allowed these Italians to go home for Christmas. Chandy must be a secular.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 19 Mar 2013 04:50

It would be interesting to see how SC saves its face. This is most interesting and will illustrate how the internal conflicts within the rashtra's power relations is shaping up.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 19 Mar 2013 05:25

RajeshA wrote:
The White Woman and India.

Brown is figging Smart and Beautiful, It Always has and Always will be

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 19 Mar 2013 05:34

^^but a white-man is saying that. We need more influential brown men to say it

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Mar 2013 05:45

Vienna Convention bars Indian authority from restricting Mancini: Italy

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 19 Mar 2013 05:49

If India does continue to impose this restriction what can Italy do? Though I find Akbar's comments - posted above - very pertinent. SC for its ego sake has to impose and has spoilt the nice setup govt was willing to (it appears) go with. Though the SC could, gaining enough brownie points, let the Sonia govt have what it presumably wanted.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Mar 2013 05:49

The Embassy of Italy presents its compliments to the Ministry of External Affairs of the Union of India and in connection to its note verbale dated March 14 has to honour to remind the MEA of the obligations relating to the protection of diplomatic agents enshrined in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of April 18 1961, to which both Italy and India are parties including in particular Articles 29 and 31 para 1.1. Any restriction to the freedom of movement of the Ambassador of Italy to India, including any limitation to right of leaving the Indian territory, will be contrary to the international obligations of the receiving State to respect his person, freedom dignity and function. The Embassy of Italy expects therefore that the MEA will ensure full compliance with the privileges and immunities contemplated in the Convention and provide reassurance that no Indian Authority shall impose or implement restrictive measures on the personal freedom of His Excellency the Ambassador.”

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Mar 2013 05:54

RE Francois Gautier etc. He's entitled to his opinion.

Let me just observe that this whole white chickie thing is overdone. OK. Rajiv Gandhi went to the UK to get an 'education' one more of the Nehru-Gandhis who did not graduate from college but wanted a brush with Oxbridge. So he met an eyetalian chick who went to A college in the town of Oxford to learn English, and later dressed that up to be a college IN Oxford with the implication that it was a college OF Oxford University.

So what's surprising? INC has had this white chick thing from Annie Besant to Edwina Mountbatten and now the fair Antonia.

The point is that I'm not going to get my chaddis in a twist because the INC and its spawn like white wimmenz.

The problem is not us but the INC mentality and I know it well having grown up amongst them @ 7 Jantar Mantar circa 1952-57

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Mar 2013 05:57

India bar on envoy 'violates diplomatic law', Italy says

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 19 Mar 2013 07:04

The nonsense of putting restriction on Mancini is going beautifully as planned. It is hard not to believe that this outcome was not perceived by the Italy's intel agencies, when Mancini was picked for the job. Outcomes seem to be quite obvious that Mancini would either be expelled or be in some sort of legal trouble. If he were to be expelled, Congress would have scored some point with elections approaching, without solving any problem. If not expelled, should he fall in sort of legal trouble, Vienna books can be dumped with Indians to remind them that they can't touch the ambassador. Congress, has also conveniently pushed fight to Supreme Court. Now they will remind aam adami that they are simply following SC order, knowing very well that any trouble against Mancini may not in front of Vienna bullshit.

Looks like, the next phase in this battle is full of legal bullshit in which SC, GoI and Italy will go back and forth interpreting international law in terms of what they "can" and "can not" do, while perfectly knowing what they want to do is release Mancini with some drama-bazzi. And, while all this is going on the biggest Mafioso know as the EU is sitting on the sidelines enjoying the show. As soon as they smell that SC may jail or seriously extend the movement of Mancini, they could dump such a shit load of international law on GoI that it could give GoI enough reasons to drop charges against Mancini...

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 19 Mar 2013 07:19

Annie Besant was BC before Christ

Edwina was not keep sake

SG is Anno Domino

But SG is IIM. Italian Indian Master that is of Free India
With vested interests via RG PG and PG Woodhouse aka Priyanka Gandhi Wadera

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 19 Mar 2013 08:12

I have a question for Italy.

Does Vienna Convention allow ambassadors to help escape prisoners? We are not talking about ordinary prisoners. We are talking about people booked for murder.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 19 Mar 2013 08:59

Cosmo_R wrote:RE Francois Gautier etc. He's entitled to his opinion.

Let me just observe that this whole white chickie thing is overdone. OK. Rajiv Gandhi went to the UK to get an 'education' one more of the Nehru-Gandhis who did not graduate from college but wanted a brush with Oxbridge. So he met an eyetalian chick who went to A college in the town of Oxford to learn English, and later dressed that up to be a college IN Oxford with the implication that it was a college OF Oxford University.

So what's surprising? INC has had this white chick thing from Annie Besant to Edwina Mountbatten and now the fair Antonia.

The point is that I'm not going to get my chaddis in a twist because the INC and its spawn like white wimmenz.

The problem is not us but the INC mentality and I know it well having grown up amongst them @ 7 Jantar Mantar circa 1952-57

Did you read this by any chance? Three Funerals and a Wedding

Three Funerals and a Wedding

Prologue
I was part of various analysis teams of Indian intelligence agencies during the 80’s and 90’s and now live a anonymous life in a distant land. What I am going to propagate over a 3 part series in the next few days might seem very farfetched and even fantastic to most people and many conspiracy theorists might gleefully accept it as vindication for whatever they have been screaming from rooftops for quite some time now. My attempt though is neither to please any one nor to prove someone else wrong or right; it is just to come out with the truth as we perceived it. Most of the theory that I am going to put forward in part 1 is the work of us 5 people in 1991 while analyzing all the intelligence inputs over the years in connection with the assassination of former Prime Minister Mr. Rajiv Gandhi. We in the intelligence parlays termed it as “the Rajiv brief”. Most conclusions that we had come up with were unanimous and unequivocal. I must hasten to add that many parts of this so called “the Rajiv brief” were also part of an earlier analysis done in the mid 80’s by another team investigating the conspiracy angle to Mrs Indira Gandhi’s death. Theoretic overlapping in terms of evidences, intelligence briefings and logical conclusions between these two analysis reports might be common, but there are also significant points of divergence in both of these reports and since I have been privy to both I would suggest that the number of points of convergence between both sets of analysis far outnumber the differences. Sometime in the middle of 1992 we were suddenly asked to debunk the whole theory and change our line of thinking by powers that be, and we had to let go of a “very strong” case that we were building then. Of the core group of 5 analysts who were working on that case, 3 are no more (all died of normal causes) and 2 of us are still living anonymously without being in touch with each other. This is my attempt (after almost 2 decades) to complete “the Rajiv brief” and take it to its logical conclusion with the benefit of hindsight. I must warn though, that this is at the end of the day, just a theory based on intelligence inputs and field analysis built on a very plausible premise. It is an attempt to fill in the blanks between the “if’s” and “buts” of history with the luxury of retrospective intelligence.

The Theory: Five people four scenarios and three events

Mrs Sonia Gandhi is today the most powerful person in India and probably one of the most powerful women on earth. Elections 2009 have only reinforced her power. How did she end up becoming the most powerful person in India? This is the story of that ascendancy. Five people, four scenarios and three events stood between Mrs Sonia Gandhi and her destiny. Over the next few pages I am going to explain those scenarios through the eyes of a former intelligence analyst.

Scenario 1: The Rajiv-Sonia marriage

At the outset there is nothing more than just another love story to Mr Rajiv Gandhi’s romance with Miss Antonia Albina Maino in the mid 1960’s. Any suggestion that there were characters in the Cambridge university campus that not only hooked them up but also nurtured the famous romance is too farfetched. But having said that, let us consider some of the London tabloid reports of that time which variously suggested Rajiv was “constantly influenced” by a couple of students of European origin (I would not take names and let researchers do some hard work) and that at least one of those students was later absorbed by the Vatican’s intelligence wing. It would also be farfetched to speculate on Indian intelligence requesting the help of MI5 to analyze the Rajiv-Sonia romance, at least am not aware of any such report ever being filed. All these rumours and theories have done their rounds in the intelligence quarters of Delhi, especially during 1991-1992, but then we are rushing ahead of time so we shall deal with that later. I would now present as to what intelligence agencies actually did, which was very little, and let people draw their own conclusion.

Background

Post World War 1, Turin was a hub of political activity. Communism was at its peak in Europe and many left leaning socialist organizations were dabbling with the Marxist ideology and as a counter balance to that the fascist forces were emerging as an attractive alternative to many Catholics of Italy, and Turin was no exception. The small village of Orbassano near Turin mainly composed of orthodox Roman Catholic families and they all dreaded the arrival of communists on their shores and decided to join hands with the fascists lead by Mussolini. Paolo Maino was one of them. Indian intelligence gathering techniques are never given their due credit, but we have done some first rate jobs which have never been acknowledged and Mrs Sonia Gandhi’s background check was one of them. It was found that after the end of Second World War when many fascists were purged, Paolo Maino was protected by the church and no less than the Vatican itself intervened in his case and all papers pertaining to him were there by transferred to the Vatican! It was furthermore established that one of the more mysterious uncles of Paolo Maino worked for the super secret intelligence organization of the Vatican, the Opus Dei. Paolo was a construction contractor and had little savings; he could not entirely afford the educational and other expenses of his children. This mysterious uncle; who was working for the Opus Dei and whose name had been deleted from all the intelligence files; sponsored Antonio Albina Maino’s education in Cambridge in the 1960’s.

During her stay in Cambridge Miss Antonio took an “unusually high degree” of interest in the activities of groups concerning students of Indian Diaspora much before she met Rajiv. In fact, their first meeting took place in the presence of other Indian origin students and not in a Greek cafe as widely reported later. But throughout all of this she continued her association with the church and its activities and was in constant touch with “certain sections of the Vatican” which were previously also associated with the fascists. When Indian intelligence officials later questioned one of Miss Antonio’s close associates during her stay in the Cambridge, he described her relationship with the Vatican as akin to “umbilical cord”. All of these titbits were filed by many field officers of various intelligence agencies over a period of years but most analysts in the intelligence parlays of India termed them as “innocent” at worst and “needs evaluation” at best. Of course one can always concede that the analysts of that era lack the luxury of retrospective analysis as we do have now, there was definitely some lax attitude shown by these analysts in trying to decipher these events. Thus one day in 1968, after 3 odd years of courtship Mr. Rajiv Gandhi and Miss Antonio Maino; the daughter of former Fascist soldier, Paolo Maino; were married in Delhi. Miss Maino then became Mrs Sonia Gandhi for all intentions and purposes and the stepping stone to her destiny was covered with roses.

Scenario 2: Event 1, June 23rd 1980

The first player in the political theatre to have been eliminated and also the most important first link to the series of events that led to the present dispensation in the corridors of Delhi. Circumstantial evidence in the June 23rd 1980 Sanjay Gandhi air crash near Safdarjung airport points to foul play but let’s not get sucked into those futile arguments that have been raging ever since. Just suffice it to say that the single-member enquiry commission headed by Mr M L Jain which was formed to study the circumstances that lead to the plane crash has never submitted any report what so ever to the government in 3 decades. Now isn’t that fishy?

Background

Anybody who is aware of the 70’s brand of politics in India would know that Sanjay was the most important political centre, around whom most of the power was concentrated and dispensed with. Many even believed that Sanjay wielded more power than Indira Gandhi herself. It thus became pertinent for most intelligence agencies concerned with India’s affairs to have a thick case file about Sanjay Gandhi and his activities. There were some widely debunked theories of the junior Gandhi leaning towards CIA and Mrs Gandhi not being in agreement with his ideas, I do not know the origin or the veracities of these hypotheses so I would not make any comment either to encourage or discourage them. The 1960’s and 70’s Delhi was a hub of international espionage (like any other capital of any other country) because most intelligence agencies (including CIA & KGB) of that era depended on HUMINT or human intelligence officers to gather intelligence rather than satellites and drones of today. Every other day there would be speculation in the media circles of a certain politician or a certain bureaucrat working in tandem with a certain foreign intelligence agency; I would be lying if I claimed that all these speculations were wrong, in fact there were quite a few surprises in the “official” list that the Indian intelligence agencies maintained, but that is a completely different subject altogether. Coming back to Sanjay Gandhi and the interest that he generated in foreign as well as Indian intelligence circles, one thing is clear, he never worked or had any relationship with any of the foreign intelligence agencies and that much I can vouch for, but the same cannot be said about his continuous indulgence and interference with the local intelligence agencies. He always used and had his men in various wings of Indian intelligence agencies. Amidst all of this originated the “Russian hypothesis”.

There is no agreement as to when the real “Russian hypothesis” came into being, some argue that just prior to emergency in 1975 the Soviets sponsored this study because they had prior intelligence that emergency would be imposed on India, while still others argue that its origin was sometime during the Morarji Desai regime. I for one tend to agree with the former because it is a known fact that Soviets were consulted by Mrs Gandhi about emergency. Another reason to support the 1975 theory is that a secret meeting of the dreaded VKR had taken place in Delhi in the summer of 1975 (VKR = Voennaya Kontra Razvedka) and it had baffled many Indian intelligence officials as to why VKR (Russian counter intelligence wing) would meet in India. After the imposition of emergency and the awareness about Mrs Gandhi’s soviet consultation, intelligence circles widely accepted the theory of VKR meeting in Delhi as a part of that Indo-Soviet collaboration on emergency until the emergence of the “Russian hypothesis” and the eventual demise of Mr. Sanjay Gandhi. KGB had strong presence in Delhi and across India in the 70’s and many left-leaning analysts openly and covertly co-operated with KGB and other Russian intelligence agencies. One such “analyst” was part of the team that had produced the “Russian hypothesis” and he later (in 1979) leaked parts of that document to Indian intelligence and that is how the jigsaw puzzle was cracked. In the hypothesis it was concluded that Mr Sanjay Gandhi was west leaning and a capitalist and would eventually side with the CIA, although there was no universal agreement about these conclusions amongst the team that had produced the “Russian hypothesis” most of them did agree to some extent of those conclusions. It was our belief that the Soviets had decided not to take any action, mainly because of the fact that it was unlikely of KGB and even more unlikely in the case of VKR to remain quiet for more than a few months after having reached a conclusion. This is when Opus Dei comes into picture. It is a well known fact that Opus Dei and parts of Russian intelligence had always collaborated on certain matters. Exactly how or when did Opus Dei come into the possession of “Russian hypothesis” is merely in the realm of speculation but what is incontrovertible is that the Vatican intelligence did have enormous influence on Josef Stavinoha, the man who was heading VKR at that time and thus KGB in active collaboration with Opus Dei decided to act on the “Russian hypothesis” sometime in March 1980. As a direct result of that, June 23rd 1980 happened as an accident.

Continuum

After the sudden demise of Mr Sanjay Gandhi, there was the question of two other people, the very political wife Mrs Maneka Gandhi and son Mr Varun Gandhi which had to be dealt with by the Gandhi family. While there is no denying the fact that Mrs Indira Gandhi and her daughter in law Mrs Maneka Gandhi had a less than cordial relationship (which was more accentuated after the arrival of Rajiv’s family, as per some household sources of the family) and usually had typical “saas-bahu” war of turfs, but what is also irrefutable is the fact that Mr Varun Gandhi was Mrs Gandhi’s favourite grandson and she simply doted on him. What exactly transpired and who facilitated the events are all debates of speculation for the tabloid media, but one thing is certain, both the widowed mother and son were completely sidelined and almost ceased to exist as far as the Gandhi family is concerned after ceremoniously being thrown out of the Prime Minister’s residence.

Scenario 3: 1984, the assassination of Mrs Indira Gandhi

It was one of those events in the young life of a nation that can be termed as a defining moment in history. At the outset it was a clear case of Khalistani fundamentalists avenging operation blue-star, but there were many characters at the periphery and many events preceding it which raised many an eyebrow in the intelligence communities of the world. This was also that one colossal event that catapulted the young Mr Rajiv Gandhi, a novice in politics, to the highest seat of power in South Asia and Mrs Sonia Gandhi was now the next in the line of succession by the virtue of being his wife.

Background

It is a historically well known fact that the Khalistan movement was nurtured by ISI and certain elements in Pakistan. Also well recorded are the initial reactions of some western countries like Canada who almost directly hobnobbed with the Sikh separatist leaders only to abandon them when the movement became increasingly violent. Tacit support of US and British intelligence agencies to the Khalistan intelligentsia was also much speculated upon those days. But what was a lesser known fact in the media and a matter of puzzling debates in the intelligence circles was the interest shown by the Vatican in the Khalistan movement. In 1980-81 Vatican had an open channel of discussions with certain groups of the so called “intellectuals” who were known sympathisers of the Sikh separatist movements. This interest and interactions continued well into the early 80’s and were explained as the “right of Vatican to have an interest in other religious organizations”. At the height of Khalistan movement just after operation Blue Star, many reliable Indian intelligence sources had given “definitive” information about Opus Dei funding parts of operations of Sikh separatists outside India!

After operation Blue Star there were many intelligence inputs about the threat to Mrs Gandhi’s life including some specific inputs about people in the core inner circle of Mrs Gandhi’s security system being vulnerable. Yet no action was taken, why? The assassination of Mrs Indira Gandhi was a massive intelligence failure to say the least and yet no major enquiry was ordered to decipher the conspiracy theory, why? Sections of KGB and other Russian intelligence agencies had given a specific timeframe regarding “action” and yet their advice went unheeded, why? Soviet sources, in informal briefings had warned about certain western intelligence agencies being in cahoots with Sikh separatists and yet those warnings were disregarded, why?
A part of the answer to those questions can be explained as plain incompetence as usual. May be one can also argue that we now have the power of hindsight which we lacked then. But definitely there is a part of the answer to that question which is more complex and only takes my theory forward to its logical conclusion. It is not as if we did nothing, security experts and Intelligence aficionados gave at least 2 formal specific presentations to Mrs Gandhi on 2 different occasions about the need to re-haul the entire security apparatus around her. But on both these occasions apart from Mrs Gandhi’s nonchalance we met with the biggest resistance from one particular member of her core team. He was a very powerful member of what was then known to the media as “kitchen cabinet” and had also been described as a “power broker of the highest degree” by many media houses and visiting dignitaries. There was no reason to suspect any mal-intentions in him, as he was also known to be very close to Mr Rajiv Gandhi (unlike some members of the “kitchen cabinet” who had a turf war with the junior Gandhi). Post assassination there was a bit of a stir in the media about the same gentleman followed by hush-hush events. We in the intelligence were also surprised to know about his strong linkages with certain Western intelligence agencies. Nothing really happened after that for quite some time and Mr Rajiv Gandhi only restored the same gentleman back in his team with full honours and the whole episode was laid to rest. But the biggest revelation to the intelligence wings came a little later (and was not accorded much importance at that time). Unlike media perceptions that the said gentleman belonged to the Rajiv Gandhi coterie and to the “kitchen cabinet”, he actually owed both his positions and his re-instatement into the inner circles of power after the assassination of Mrs Gandhi to a certain Mrs Sonia Gandhi!

Scenario 4: 1991, the assassination of Mr Rajiv Gandhi

When Mr Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated in Sriperumbudur on 21st May 1991, it did come as a shock to the intelligence community in India but it would be false to suggest that we had absolutely no clue about it. Tamil Tigers animosity towards Mr Rajiv Gandhi was by no means a universally accepted fact in the intelligence circles and yet there were “elements” in the establishment who had assessed the risk factors from time to time. Many analysts had pointed out way back in 1985 (when Rajiv first tried to establish channels to tigers) the unpredictable nature of the leadership of LTTE and their perceived closeness to “certain” European and Western intelligence agencies. Mr Rajiv Gandhi was more influenced by a section of foreign policy analysts and he paid little heed to whatever little reservations the Indian intelligence agencies had vis-à-vis Tamil Tigers. I must confess that intelligence community in India did not really cover themselves in glory in this whole episode, because it might come as a surprise to most readers to know that we had threat perception for Mr Rajiv Gandhi from many other quarters like Sikh separatists, Islamic (Pakistani funded) militant groups, Chinese sponsored mercenaries and even rogue KGB agents, but had very few inputs and analysis about Tamil Tigers! That was a grave error to say the least. Due to myriad intelligence inputs and even more complex analysis the enquiry following the assassination was mired in many ideas and was muddled in too many complexities.

Background

The Rajiv Gandhi era was defined by two major geo-political changes in India and South Asia;
· Pakistan’s involvement with separatist groups in Kashmir and the birth of Islamic terrorism in the valley
·
India’s direct mediation in Sri Lanka vis-à-vis Tamil issue

Both these geo-political affairs in South Asia had linkages to Western intelligence agencies at some point or other. It is a well known fact that CIA did help Kashmiri terror outfits in the initial years ostensibly to decrease Soviet influence in the region and also because US intelligence establishments were day dreaming about controlling all forms of Islamic extremist organisations from Afghanistan and Central Asia to the Middle-East and Western Africa. The results of those ill-fated forays have been disastrous as we have seen today, but that is a different story for some other time. Lesser known fact is the support to LTTE by many European intelligence agencies including MI5 & NIS (Norwegian Intelligence Service). Thus, although Mr Rajiv Gandhi considered Mr Vellupali Prabhakaran as a personal friend, the LTTE leader was more under the influence of many other intelligence organisations than India which should have been his natural ally. If the Western intelligence agencies wanted to eliminate Mr Rajiv Gandhi (for whatever myriad reasons) they had 2 very plausible ways to achieve their hit; Islamic Terror outfits in Kashmir and LTTE; apart from many other difficult options. LTTE having assassinated Mr Rajiv Gandhi unilaterally can be ruled out for all practical purposes as it was too much under the influence and control of many agencies and also it would have needed a thorough assurance that its own organization would not be eliminated following the assassination. Mr Prabhakaran, whatever else he was, was a practical man with very sensible ideas to survive for a long term struggle for Tamil Elam. He would have realized at the very outset that eliminating Mr Rajiv Gandhi could become an existential threat to LTTE itself. He had the precedence of the Khalistan movement being crushed following Mrs Indira Gandhi’s assassination and the might of IPKF, which had almost managed to destroy about 80% of LTTE.

Mr Prabhakaran apart from being Tamil was also a catholic and there is a theory that the Vatican had helped LTTE in the initial phases to establish a “catholic” land in the Northern parts of Sri Lanka independent of the “Buddhist” Sinhalese regime. I have many intelligence inputs to confirm these linkages between the Vatican and the LTTE. Norway which had always played a role in the Sri Lankan peace process had a commanding influence over LTTE, especially over the northern faction of LTTE comprising Prabhakaran and co. Norwegian intelligence or NIS had not only given financial assistance but also had provided military training and logistical support to many northern LTTE command groups. I must state here that the western part of LTTE led by Karuna and co was less under the influence of these organisations and was more open to collaboration with India. There was also an unconfirmed report that Karuna was against the whole plot to assassinate Mr Rajiv Gandhi and had even tried in vain to contact Indian intelligence agencies about the impending attack. NIS and other Scandinavian intelligence agencies in the 80’s and early 90’s were also heavily under the influence of Opus Dei and other intelligence establishments of the Vatican. There were many reasons for this, primary being the fact Norway’s borders with Soviet Russia and the Opus Dei’s final plans to liberate the orthodox Russian church from the communists. Finally, we have very strong intelligence inputs about NIS having given the final order of a “hit” on Mr Rajiv Gandhi and also the requisite assurance of “no-attack” from India on LTTE in any eventuality. Thus Prabhakaran decided to assassinate Mr Rajiv Gandhi despite internal opposition and many apprehensions. What is even more curious was the timing of attack (which was also a pre-condition by the Norwegian controllers of LTTE as per many intercepts of Russian intelligence revealed to India much later). It was as if someone wanted to influence the ensuing general elections in India by assassinating a tall leader (they had the precedent of 1985 elections following Mrs Gandhi’s killing). But, they only partly succeeded in that as congress could not get a majority on its own which was partially due to the fact that a part of those elections were held before the event and partially due to the changed political scenario of India in the beginning of the 90’s.

The Analysis

After the assassination many intelligence teams were working on many number of theories and officially SIT (special investigation team) was formed to fast track the whole process and at least theoretically all these intelligence teams were supposed to be working under the aegis of the SIT. We were a group of 5 analysts working on the conspiracy angle (there were other groups of people also working on many conspiracy theories) leading up to the assassination. This is when we first stumbled upon the theory of the Vatican’s interest in India’s 1st family (the Gandhi family), which was earlier researched by a team previously working on the killing of senior Mrs Gandhi. Layer by layer we were gathering all the previous inputs and seemingly farfetched hypothesises put forward by many people in the past. Most of the inputs that I have talked about till now throughout this paper (part 1) were discovered and analysed during those 6 months when we worked together in that team. Mr P. V. Narasimha Rao was the Prime Minister of India then and he had made it a point to get all the reports on the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case delivered to him directly (with no intermediaries) at regular intervals. I remember it correctly, when we had sent our detailed analysis report with all the relevant intelligence inputs to the PMO on a Thursday afternoon. The report contained all the various theories that we had suggested but we had not reached any conclusions.

The first time it’s a chance, the second time it’s a coincidence and the third time it’s a pattern. I guess it was just a matter of time before we would reach the conclusion that the sole beneficiary of all these scenarios and events was the one and only Mrs Sonia Gandhi, the widow of Mr Rajiv Gandhi. How 3 events (assassination & “unnatural” deaths of the three Gandhis) and the 4 scenarios involving 5 people who were either eliminated or completely sidelined leading to the final destiny of Mrs Sonia Gandhi is really a fascinating story. On Monday morning our team was dismantled, we were asked to work on another theory of CIA’s involvement with the LTTE and about understanding the financial structuring of the Tamil Tigers and we were told in no uncertain terms to abandon our “farfetched” theories and to work on more “realistic” aspects that would provide more tangible results.

After that we never mentioned about “the Rajiv brief” or about what had happened in those 6 months. But I have been keeping track of events since then. One important loophole about the theory as explained till now would be the reluctance of Mrs Sonia Gandhi to accept the position of power after the 1991 elections. I would like to deal with the post Rajiv era in part 2 when I will hopefully explain all of those issues. I have formulated my own set of theories and have reached my own conclusions, but they will be elaborated upon in the next 2 parts of this treatise.
... To be continued.
Posted by Ex Indian Intelligence at 8:33 AM

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Mar 2013 09:19

The SC has erred in trying to restrict the movement of the Italian Ambassador. This is a classic case of courts over reaching. The were stupid to allow the accused to leave the country once, and Idiots to do it a second time. Instead of owning up to their own errors, now they try to do the impossible. Ofcourse, the government too does not come out with shining colors for being a party to all of it. GoI is in no position to violate an international treaty with an EU nation on the matter. The courts should have put the issue squarely in the hands of the GoI. It is their decision to ask for release and theirs to own up to its aftermath. There are a number of actions that GoI can do to ensure return of the accused, however it is up to the GoI only to take these steps and going by how GoI works and thinks, have no hope.

Moreover the PM has said there will be consequences, not that the PM's statement is credible for he is a proven misleader of the parliament and the nation. But, since he has spoken, he has put the sovereignty of India on the line!

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Mar 2013 09:25

Ramay ji: Continuing here.

RamaY wrote:ShauryaTji,

AKA has been the defense minister since 2005. What did he achieve in past 8 years? Did he catch and punish a single person related to defense scandals?

He had no mandate to do any such thing. His role was to ensure that the political class and the leadership of the INC steers clear of the MoD. They are very aware of what happened with Bofors. His role was to occupy the seat like a Babu and follow instructions and play along with the games the ministry of finance plays in its funding, not make noises and be personal clean. AKA fits that bill to a T.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 19 Mar 2013 10:00

viv wrote:^^all this avoiding or boycott of Italian companies prob wont happen. Even at the height of Bhopal gas tragedy people continued to use union-carbide products.

First, I do not know about the others, but I am not trying for a mass boycott. If a few individuals on BR can take conscious decisions to not buy products of Italian companies- and email these companies about it- that will be a start. My experience working for corporations is that it does not take a lot to get them paranoid about sales.

Second, on a more general note, nothing will ever happen anyway if we do not try. At least let us try so maybe something may happen?

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 19 Mar 2013 10:04

ShauryaT wrote:The SC has erred in trying to restrict the movement of the Italian Ambassador. This is a classic case of courts over reaching. The were stupid to allow the accused to leave the country once, and Idiots to do it a second time. Instead of owning up to their own errors, now they try to do the impossible. Ofcourse, the government too does not come out with shining colors for being a party to all of it. GoI is in no position to violate an international treaty with an EU nation on the matter. The courts should have put the issue squarely in the hands of the GoI. It is their decision to ask for release and theirs to own up to its aftermath. There are a number of actions that GoI can do to ensure return of the accused, however it is up to the GoI only to take these steps and going by how GoI works and thinks, have no hope.

Moreover the PM has said there will be consequences, not that the PM's statement is credible for he is a proven misleader of the parliament and the nation. But, since he has spoken, he has put the sovereignty of India on the line!

That is my worry. That instead of driving a cogent, escalating and harsh response, we end up - either willfully or out of incompetence - the laughing stocks of the world.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Mar 2013 11:09

ShauryaT wrote:The SC has erred in trying to restrict the movement of the Italian Ambassador. This is a classic case of courts over reaching. The were stupid to allow the accused to leave the country once, and Idiots to do it a second time. Instead of owning up to their own errors, now they try to do the impossible. Ofcourse, the government too does not come out with shining colors for being a party to all of it. GoI is in no position to violate an international treaty with an EU nation on the matter. The courts should have put the issue squarely in the hands of the GoI. It is their decision to ask for release and theirs to own up to its aftermath. There are a number of actions that GoI can do to ensure return of the accused, however it is up to the GoI only to take these steps and going by how GoI works and thinks, have no hope.

Moreover the PM has said there will be consequences, not that the PM's statement is credible for he is a proven misleader of the parliament and the nation. But, since he has spoken, he has put the sovereignty of India on the line!

The CJI was blindsided by the MEA, masterminded by kurshit. In his eagerness to corner the laurels, the CJI blundered into areas where he had absolutely no role to play.

Note how carefully kurshit claims that the Supreme court is handling the matter where as it is only and only the GOI which should be concerned with matters of state, at best handling matters directly and at worst, actively guiding the SC.

altamas kabir is personally up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Mar 2013 11:40

RamaY wrote:This silly fellow didn't say a word when a Kerala high court allowed these Italians to go home for Christmas. Chandy must be a secular.

As I posted in the last page. Kerala HC did allow the Marines to goto Italy. But there was a very strong bail condition; a huge amount for bail and two local people to stand guarantee. The government pleader had also opposed the bail plea. I feel the bail conditions of Hon Kerala H.C was much more thought out, and strict when compared to that of Hon S.C.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 19 Mar 2013 12:04

Like with the BJP letting prisoners go during the Kandahar hijacking, the blowback for enemy action will again have to fall on the Indians involved, this time the Congress. The ambassador has diplomatic immunity, and the government will have to let him travel. Khurshid would have to be tried for contempt of court and given some token punishment for letting the ambassador go.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 19 Mar 2013 12:05

Ajatshatru wrote:
we end up - either willfully or out of incompetence - the laughing stocks of the world.
Haven't we already?

Even if we have - and I do not necessarily agree- the path to self respect is always clear, straightforward.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Mar 2013 12:42

brihaspati wrote:It would be interesting to see how SC saves its face. This is most interesting and will illustrate how the internal conflicts within the rashtra's power relations is shaping up.

By twisting like Maggi noodles. Fully expect them to cave in.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2013 12:46

Now they remember the Vienna Convention: Defiant Italy tells India you can't restrain envoy Mancini

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Mar 2013 13:01

My views on the issue of restraining the lying turd who is the current agent of Italian govt in India.

1) I do not expect SC to show balls, I would be glad to be wrong.
2) Is arresting detaining him the right thing to do?
Cons
a) It will have blow back
b) It will go against many norms

Yet I believe it would be a good thing. Why
a) India needs to strike back, unfortunately, "saap bhee mar jaye aur lathi bhee na toote" is no longer an option -- so break the stick but kill the snake
b) Important for India to show that the power equations have changed.
c) Morally and ethically, the Italian person now has no rights of a diplomat. He lost it when he actively participated in a fraud on Indian soil, so worrying about his rights in not germane.
d) Its fall out will be more damaging for sections of India which are AIF.

I would love if SC send the bugger to 30 days in Tihar without bail. One bishop is worth more than two pawns me thinks.

Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs of war.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Mar 2013 14:58

I really believe Possession is 90% of the Law. We don't have the marines, SC let them go, so SC sabotaged the legal process.

All this looking for some legal loopholes is useless. The sooner the reality dawns that the pigeons have flown the coop, the better. There is zero chance of getting justice now in India, and it is of no use begging for it elsewhere.

The only thing still to do is to show our anger at the Italians - for killing our fishermen, and for "abusing our trust".

There are three justifiable ways of showing anger:
a) Stop all commercial or any other activities which benefit Italy.
b) Declare war on Italy!
c) Besiege their representations in India.

I doubt Indian businessmen or Indian elite would really make a conscious decision of hurting Italians economically, but there can be surprises if the government takes the lead.

Forget wars!

The people of India should do Dharna outside Italian embassy and consulates for one year straight keeping violence below 0.1%. What we need are some rage boys, some very good actors or some who really care!

The motto should be to bring anti-Italian hate in India to such a level for their act, that the anti-Italian hate starts paying dividends. When one gets a government in India with the right mindset, it would ensure that Italians pay dearly.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Mar 2013 15:11

RajeshA wrote: Forget wars!
.

Err, that was figure of speech.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Mar 2013 15:15

Sanku wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Forget wars!
Err, that was figure of speech.

Just saying that though the idea is justifiable, i.e. to make war in order to bring justice to the Italians and all, much in the same way USA brought justice to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, of course the idea would be too absurd considering the present realities.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 19 Mar 2013 16:00

@@VarunKumar^^^:

".....Cambridge university".

They were at/in Oxford not Cambridge. Makes this narrative a bit suspect IMHO.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 19 Mar 2013 16:11

Cosmo_R wrote:@@VarunKumar^^^:

".....Cambridge university".

They were at/in Oxford not Cambridge. Makes this narrative a bit suspect IMHO.

From Wikipedia:

In 1964, she went to study English at the Bell Educational Trust's language school in the city of Cambridge. She met Rajiv Gandhi, who was enrolled in Trinity College at the University of Cambridge in 1965 at a Greek restaurant (the Varsity Restaurant) while working there as a waitress to make ends meet. [19][20] Sonia and Rajiv Gandhi married in 1968, following which she moved into the house of her mother-in-law and then Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi.[21]

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Mar 2013 16:33

Considering that this thread has a little or much to do with the Italian Sonia Maino, is it known what kind of religious ceremony Rajiv and Sonia had? Was it Catholic, Hindu, Parsee, Muslim, Civil?

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 19 Mar 2013 17:09

Sanku wrote:
RajeshA wrote: Forget wars!
.
Err, that was figure of speech.

That was the first line in the novel Dogs of War by Fredrick Forsyth