Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Mar 2013 10:34

Sushupti wrote: I have also said that majorities of these are Bs. Just have a look at the list of leaders of communists party of India from 1920s.

I would like to know how you inferred that "majority" part. Can you post the list you are talking about? Also how do you know that the list is complete?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Mar 2013 10:38

VikramS wrote:Also a general question:

Why do many dalits have a pathological hate for the RSS as seen on twitter.

It is more manufactured by the INC and Christian orgs claiming to Represent so called "dalits" like Kancha Illiah(whose book why I am not a Hindu was sponsored by the Rajiv Ghandi foundation in 1995) and the people who run Dalistan.org who see RSS, VHP, BD and other orgs as obstacle to their plans.

For EJ- SC/ST are seen as a Target group, for American-Europeans, this rift is nessecary to keep us fighting with ourselves. For INC- Minorities plus Govt babus are major chunk of its votebank, INC does not run on track record but rather than Minoritiy plus SC/ST- regional hate to survive. See its fortune in AP rise along with conversion activities.

Hence, there will be many paid SC/ST and mainly non SC/ST Goras included who will claim to be "DALITS" hating RSS.

There are many people in the SC/ST community who are part of the Sangh parivar.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Mar 2013 10:43

Laloo Yadav's govt was supporting/in bed with MCC. I am sure Laloo Yadav was Brahmin too.

In any case, since communists are big fans of brahmins (and other "upper" castes), it makes sense for UC wallahs to support/vote for commies. It is in their own interests. Similarly, one can see why "lower" caste wallah would not vote for commie parties.

Finally since brahmins (or other "upper" castes) are a huge numerical majority, it is easy to see why we can blame the election results on them.

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Mar 2013 10:57

Are we having a friendly fire within trenches?

Sushiptiji and Sankuji (and rest et al), if your goal is to get the "C-System" or the termites out, then focus on that task and provide insights. Please no friendly fire.

There is always going to be a latent fear where somebody might put a compromise candidate and somebody else may end up taking the seat. Please try not to project your personal biases on the political person.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 19 Mar 2013 11:08

^+1 We complain of infighting in BJP, yet do the same with the slightest chance over here. No wonder the right wing is so weak in India.

disha · Post by **disha** » 19 Mar 2013 11:16

Muppalla wrote:...All these folks will go to depression when realism starts hitting home in a westminister style junk democracy that India has with a host of sabotagable holes that the system can be penetrated with.

On the big stage of dharma everybody has their roles. If AlbatrossInFlight is tom-tomming Modi and somebody in CongI showing their "aukat", each has a role to play - small or big. The former can be used to spread positive message and the later can be used to point out the hypocracy of the current goberment.

Anyway, coming to NaMo, BJP, INC, Rest and the elections in 2014, the big game is afoot. It is like a chess in slow motion. Here are is a simple truth table:

...............BJP.....INC......."Allies"
Seats...<130....>150..... *Other than traditional allies, all fence sitters will discover "secularism"
Seats...>170....<110..... *All fence sitters will fall in line with NaMo Mantra
Seats...>130....>130..... *Horse trading. INC will win because of CBI and Rs (or let us call it Gandhis. Like 10Khokas of Gandhis)

Realistically, I think it is going to be the last scenario - a hung mandate due to uncertainity in AP, Mah, Bihar and UP.

I hope that BJP do *not* announce the PM candidature early. The current game is who will "open the kimono" first. Both CongI and BJP want to protect their brand names (read Rahul and NaMo). In case of a hung verdict, compromise candidates may be put forward till the time is ripe for another round.

And even a single day matters a lot in politics. Abhi Delhi Door Ast.

* Muppalla'ji, if by your scenario if BJP gets say @160 (or higher) and CongIs get @100, then it is game over for Congress. Congress will try to cobble together a 3rd Front with outside support and pull the rug at the appropriate time over a small pretext like finding police guards outside Maino Maa's TOIlet.

** If AP elect CongIs again after all the YSR and Telangana charade (both locally and nationally) then AP is a lost cause. Personal opinion. They can sing "ma andhra talliki mallepudanda", "ma seema talliki mallepudanda" and "ma telangana talliki mallepudanda" in Telugu.

*** Inspite of drought and record suicides in Maharashtra, if Mah does not see through the game plan and elects CongI (and AP does the same) then prepare for another generation lost.

2014 (or is it going to be 2016) going to be interesting times. All hindoos (of all castes UC/BC-ABCD/SC/ST) can go and shiver in their dhotis now.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 19 Mar 2013 11:29

https://twitter.com/barbarindian/status ... 7336945665
No Hindu in core group? RT @Padmajajoshi1: Emergency core group meeting called by Cong: attended by Sonia, Azad. Antony, Patel #DMKpullout

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Mar 2013 11:32

abhishek_sharma ji, what has been overtly said by Sushupti ji has been said by others on the forum too in a somewhat subtle manner. I have heard of this even in Paki forums by a Kashmiri Pandit. Actually this guy pointed out how Gilani is a convert Brahmin. Until that was pointed out to me, I did not know that. So I believe is AR. See it is all about Akal. A subset capable of making better assessment of the chaning situation will be effective whichever side they choose. Good at building and good at destructing. And Brahmins have had a culture of assessing for themselves. Which is actually a good thing from our perspective but a bad one if one or two guys get compromised. Chalta hai I guess.

I tend to rationalize along the same lines as "Our Germans are better than their Germans"

.

Again to rationalize further there have been such poison ivy among other varnas also. VP Singh and DVS fellow are two such examples.

This thing goes beyond varnas too. Secular Yuppies are a dime a dozen.

So it is not like there is a white standard that has to be matched except in terms of Swadharm. One either does his job or does not.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Mar 2013 11:40

I watched the live speech of NaMo and I saw the shattered ansari's face. The author has articulated it better than I could ever have said it.

What Dilli finds hard to digest is what is drawing Bharat to NaMo

Javed Ansari of Headlines Today was visibly shaken. One could see it in his face — his world was crumbling around him. Ansari couldn’t believe that the elite of India, the powerful Dilli crowd, the last anti-NaMO bastion, was crumbling! He grabbed the mike and did the one thing that comes naturally to him and those of his ilk. He questioned Modi about the 2002 riots and wanted an instant admission of guilt. When he didn’t get what he wanted, he repeated the same question and kept insisting on a ‘sorry’.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Mar 2013 11:50

disha wrote:Are we having a friendly fire within trenches?

Sushiptiji and Sankuji (and rest et al), if your goal is to get the "C-System" or the termites out, then focus on that task and provide insights. Please no friendly fire.

Disha ji, et al -- please note, that the above is precisely my point, if some one is truly interested in a change one will be focused on +ve.

However Sushpti ji is constantly, in each and every post,

1) Derided the entire UCs of UP (then under protests scaled down to Brahmins in UP) then Brahmins in BJP and then now "some Brahmins"

2) Indulged in name calling against ABV, Advani and pretty much most and all of Sangh.

This is from some one who is ostensibly pro the cause.

I am only doing two things
1) Pointing out this behavior
2) Pointing out how constant demeaning of a group caste etc goes against the spirit of the forum.

I shall do both the above till either
1) Mods ban/warn me
2) Sushpti ceases and desists with the above behavior.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 19 Mar 2013 12:00

ravi_g wrote:abhishek_sharma ji, what has been overtly said by Sushupti ji has been said by others on the forum too in a somewhat subtle manner.
Actually this guy pointed out how Gilani is a convert Brahmin.

ravi_g the manner of saying in 99% of saying in many cases. Almost all high caste Muslims are converts, some of them are innocuous some are horrible. This is true for other castes. Malik Kafur was not a Brahmin. Many of the jhulahas are also not Brahmin while being very good souls (not like Malik Kafur/Nehru)

Heck this is anyway common knowledge. Nehru was a Brahmin by birth.

It does not mean that we start calling names like lota, these upper castes are like this etc, in every post.

You will grant that BRFites have the discrimination to distinguish between castist venom and pointing out cases of subversion in some members of a caste.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 19 Mar 2013 12:15

I had attended a soft skills training conducted by a Muslim. Did not do me much good. hein ji.

He too mentioned in glowing terms the lung power of Leftists (which I knew was an allusion to much more then just commies). Somehow support of the vociferous, the rich, the articulate, the well networked, chak-chauband kind of crowd is very important for some people.

Javed Ansari, Javed Aktar, Javed Anand are going to get nightmares if NM comes to the Center.

...............

Sanku ji, while I do not attach as much importance to the manners for myself. But yes I concur every individual of every varna, religion, creed, jaati has to be given the presumption of being Dharmic in words and deeds until proven otherwise. Proven as in Pramaanic.

And I am hopeful in both of you.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Mar 2013 15:32

VikramS wrote:I have a feeling that NM will be announced as the PM candidate after the Karnataka elections.

Post Elections, AJ/SS may become the compromise PM candidate if BJP does not get enough.

Nitish is going to sit on the fence till late in the game. Will try to extract as much as he can till he can.

Post KA elections, NaMo probably will be announced as candidate. I really think there is no compromise candidate business for BJP once a PM candidate is declared. Rain or shine BJP will stick to its declaration. The minute BJP gets 160+ you will see NaMo as PM. All things will fall in place. In case of the range 140 to 160 then comes a negotiation for a non-BJP NDA candidate. I strongly fore see Jayalalitha as such person to become PM. BJP or any party will not allow a competing person from a state where it has large presence to lead the government. So Nitish becoming PM via NDA is DOA.

If INC crosses 140, it is a UPA-1 style government with probably a new puppet. A congress supported Thirdfront will have to see either Mulayam or Maya as PMs. Even here Nitish's chances are meager.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Mar 2013 15:42

Sanku ji and Sushupti ji - please (a request) give a pause (not that you have to convert you opinions) to Brahmin and anti-brahminism. There will be an opportunity some other time to openly discuss such things on another thread. Don't open an new thread immediately. It is better to discuss when things cool down. We don't want to lose anyone of you in this firing range. Needs a real ceasefire

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Mar 2013 15:54

disha wrote: * Muppalla'ji, if by your scenario if BJP gets say @160 (or higher) and CongIs get @100, then it is game over for Congress. Congress will try to cobble together a 3rd Front with outside support and pull the rug at the appropriate time over a small pretext like finding police guards outside Maino Maa's TOIlet.

If congress is around 100 then the game is up for congress. It itself will breakup over the time period. No question of puppets, Mulayams or Nitishs when congress gets around 100. We will see an alternative government and we will see NaMo if BJP gets beyond 160.

disha wrote: ** If AP elect CongIs again after all the YSR and Telangana charade (both locally and nationally) then AP is a lost cause. Personal opinion. They can sing "ma andhra talliki mallepudanda", "ma seema talliki mallepudanda" and "ma telangana talliki mallepudanda" in Telugu.

In spite of divisive sentiments in the population AP is not going to see INC in the next term. Jagan, TDP and TRS will split the honors. How these folks will conduct will be dependent on INC's total number. If INC gets less than 100, even Jagan will look to take revenge on dynasty in spite of their closeness being displayed off late. TDP looks for way to support non-congress government while making secularism mantra and here is where Jayalalitha's chances will sore. TRS is a dalal and will sell himself to highest bidder in the name of Telangana whose formation will become more difficult if this term ends.

disha wrote: *** Inspite of drought and record suicides in Maharashtra, if Mah does not see through the game plan and elects CongI (and AP does the same) then prepare for another generation lost.

This state is most tricky part. Here there is a chance of SS, BJP, MNS and NCP splitting the honours while INC become nanga. NCP could join a Third front government of Jaya and BJP. Congress getting 100 means its business is over.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 19 Mar 2013 16:08

Muppalla wrote: I strongly fore see Jayalalitha as such person to become PM. BJP or any party will not allow a competing person from a state where it has large presence to lead the government. So Nitish becoming PM via NDA is DOA.

I would be happy to see Kumari Jaylalita ji becoming PM, she has the resolve and backbone to go after both the maino and karunanidhi die-nasties through CBI, IB etc. while she'll be more interested going against karunanidhi clan, with BJP support she can be prodded to go against maino die-nasy too.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Mar 2013 16:17

disha wrote:** If AP elect CongIs again after all the YSR and Telangana charade (both locally and nationally) then AP is a lost cause. Personal opinion. They can sing "ma andhra talliki mallepudanda", "ma seema talliki mallepudanda" and "ma telangana talliki mallepudanda" in Telugu.

*** Inspite of drought and record suicides in Maharashtra, if Mah does not see through the game plan and elects CongI (and AP does the same) then prepare for another generation lost.

I think AP and Maharashtra are a lost cause for a long time to come. Remember Maharashtra re-elected INC/NCP combine soon after 26/11. Voting in Mumbai was less than 50% (or maybe a little more). People can't see what's in front of them.

Same holds good for AP (for me INC=YSJ both are the same, whether they "reconcile" before elections or after it).

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Mar 2013 16:34

India Today group seems to be the only sane voice remaining in the media: Man-eater UPA and Gujarat's Lion

In reality, it is the Government that has morphed into a man-eater. It has killed private enterprise. It has chewed away at economic growth, reducing it from 9 per cent to 5 per cent. It is omnipresent in every sphere of a citizen's life, extracting bribes to deliver what is due, nothing extra. Worse, it shows no sign of changing habit. That a purportedly pro-market P. Chidambaram towed the party line so faithfully in his meek Budget suggests that the debate within the Congress is over. No matter what the Prime Minister says, India cannot regain an 8 per cent economic growth trajectory as long as it is guided by a Government-first principle. The tenure of UPA 1 was an aberration. The economy flew high on the animal spirits of over-exuberant financial geniuses in the West. That era is over. The sources of growth must now come from within India, but outside Government.

For this, India needs a radical new leadership. Unfortunately, Delhi's entrenched political establishment, irrespective of party, is unlikely to provide such a leader, simply because it benefits the most from the status quo. That is precisely why the national leaderships of both Congress and BJP fear Narendra Modi. He has positioned himself as the ultimate anti-establishment candidate who can end business-as-usual at the Centre. He is increasingly seen as someone who can address the biggest crisis of India: Bad, unresponsive, government.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Mar 2013 17:04

We will not move on: A Gujarati-American recalls witnessing the 2002 riots

http://www.thedp.com/article/2013/03/gu ... 2002-riots

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2013 18:54

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Muppalla wrote: I strongly fore see Jayalalitha as such person to become PM. BJP or any party will not allow a competing person from a state where it has large presence to lead the government. So Nitish becoming PM via NDA is DOA.
I would be happy to see Kumari Jaylalita ji becoming PM, she has the resolve and backbone to go after both the maino and karunanidhi die-nasties through CBI, IB etc. while she'll be more interested going against karunanidhi clan, with BJP support she can be prodded to go against maino die-nasy too.

come to think of it, this is not a bad outcome.

Make JJ PM for a year or two and go after DMK, INC and kick them into Arapian sea. Then go for fresh elections.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2013 18:55

Sushupti wrote:We will not move on: A Gujarati-American recalls witnessing the 2002 riots

http://www.thedp.com/article/2013/03/gu ... 2002-riots

Give him a seat next to the Toilet so rest of the Bharat can move on.

Or he can go to UP where he can see new riots and get new orgasm.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Mar 2013 18:57

abhishek_sharma wrote:
Sushupti wrote: I have also said that majorities of these are Bs. Just have a look at the list of leaders of communists party of India from 1920s.
I would like to know how you inferred that "majority" part. Can you post the list you are talking about? Also how do you know that the list is complete?

For example, Count the number of general secretaries of CPI and CPI(M) from MN Roy until now and find it out for yourself. But i wasn't complaining like why no SC/ST, BC etc. Brahmins have been the intellectual arm of Indian soceity so it's natural that they had heavy presence. Also, Brits after de-recognizing the native education system (basically taking away livelihood of Bs) employed Bs in heavy numbers. My point is would you call someone anti-B for opposing these people who have developed wasted interest in maintaining this political structure which they have inherited from brits or handed over by brits?.

Check the records of Shankaracharya of Dwarka and Badrinath Swami Swaroopananda Sarswati for his infatuation with Nehru-Gandhi family. Also, check how Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth (JaggannathPuri) Nischallananda Sarswati is vilified by Congressi establishement for not serving the interests of Dynasty. Will you call me anti-Brahmin for criticizing/opposing Swami Swaroopananda ?.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Mar 2013 19:00

Sanku wrote:
disha wrote:Are we having a friendly fire within trenches?

Sushiptiji and Sankuji (and rest et al), if your goal is to get the "C-System" or the termites out, then focus on that task and provide insights. Please no friendly fire.
Disha ji, et al -- please note, that the above is precisely my point, if some one is truly interested in a change one will be focused on +ve.

However Sushpti ji is constantly, in each and every post,

1) Derided the entire UCs of UP (then under protests scaled down to Brahmins in UP) then Brahmins in BJP and then now "some Brahmins"

2) Indulged in name calling against ABV, Advani and pretty much most and all of Sangh.

This is from some one who is ostensibly pro the cause.

I am only doing two things
1) Pointing out this behavior
2) Pointing out how constant demeaning of a group caste etc goes against the spirit of the forum.

I shall do both the above till either
1) Mods ban/warn me
2) Sushpti ceases and desists with the above behavior.

You are free to build and demolish straw man.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 19 Mar 2013 19:19

chindu editorial-moment of reckoning

Nitish Kumar has spoken and what he had to say is unlikely to have warmed the cockles of the Bharatiya Janata Party’s heart. The Bihar Chief Minister did not name names but the message was as loud as it could get: he would look elsewhere if the BJP was insistent on projecting Narendra Modi as the National Democratic Alliance’s prime ministerial choice. Of course, in politics nothing is final till it is final. Even so, it was evident that Mr. Kumar had crossed a critical threshold in his relationship with his long-term ally. Not only did the Janata Dal (United) chief exude style, there was enough and more symbolism in how and where he made his speech. Mr. Kumar flexed his muscles at a well-attended rally, not in Patna where mustering the crowds would have been easy enough, but in the Capital where the BJP and other national parties are headquartered. He flagged the ‘inclusive’ character of Bihar’s development, thereby thumbing his nose at the BJP’s much-celebrated ‘development’ man. And if doubts persisted, he dispelled them by asserting that he had better credentials to rule at the Centre: “This is only a trailer and it shows that Biharis are ready to rule Delhi in 2014.”

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2013 20:07

MARCHING BACKWARDS By N.V. Subramanian

MARCHING BACKWARDS
With foes like Nitish Kumar, Narendra Modi scarcely needs friends.
By N.V. Subramanian (18 March 2013)

New Delhi: As Narendra Modi consolidates his national position, his rival, Bihar’s Nitish Kumar, is falling behind, getting shrill, and making mistakes. The extension of Nitish Kumar’s “Adhikar Yatra” to Delhi, resulting in a show of force of 50,000 of the Bihar chief minister’s supporters from the Capital and elsewhere, was a tactical misstep. Delhi understands the power of numbers but of a different kind, the quantum of Lok Sabha seats won, and Nitish Kumar is vulnerable there. He is scarcely his own man, being head of a coalition government in Bihar which has the Bharatiya Janata Party as the principal partner. Rather than nesting with the bird in hand, metaphorically speaking, Nitish Kumar is chasing phantom Aves in the poison bush.

Sadly for him, Nitish Kumar has lost his way.

In contrast, Narendra Modi is working the ropes organically. Whilst Nitish Kumar has drafted perfumed networkers like N.K.Singh and Pawan Verma to open doors in Delhi, Modi is his own ambassador, letting no one and nothing beyond his work to speak on his behalf. A friend casually informed this writer of Aajtak channel’s breathtaking build-up of Modi in the past week, and not being a television-watcher, there was only his lavish praise to go by. The friend is not a journalist but in the corporate sector, sensitive and as middle-class as you and I, and concerned about the country’s precipitate decline under Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh. He couldn’t cease in his laudation of Narendra Modi’s spectacular achievement.

Do you think the Gujarat chief minister has somehow managed and manipulated this rapid rise outside his state?

Not a chance.

Modi is on his own. Neither is the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangha assisting him nor the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, and certainly not the Central leaders of the Bharatiya Janata Party. To look for orthodox reasons for his wondrous growth is to court bewilderment and defeat. Narendra Modi has done what has to be done in Gujarat, he craves to do more, and that is his sole advertisement. He doesn’t need to show force with a rally in Ramlila Ground to prove his worth. His work speaks for him.

On the other hand, Nitish Kumar has reached a plateau. After Laloo Prasad Yadav, he represents a change. He has improved law-and-order in Bihar and incentivized girls’ education; highway and road connectivity within the state is praiseworthy. But electricity and water shortages are endemic, and the state has been unable to recover from the separation of industrialized and mineral-rich Jharkhand. Yet, the solution is not special status. If any province needs extra care and attention, for being so wronged and blighted by history, it is West Bengal. If Bengal returns to high growth and prosperity, and Calcutta flourishes once again as a major port city, the rising tide will lift Bihar, Orissa, Eastern Uttar Pradesh and the North East. It cannot be gainsaid, however, that Bihar needs to stand on its feet, and be responsible for its future. No amount of special funding will help. Indeed, doles will dissuade Bihar from undertaking the struggles that bring success.

India’s salvation lies in turning more and more entrepreneurial, in becoming the cat of all colour, culture, caste and creed, to twist Deng Xiaoping’s famous aphorism, which catches the mice. India needs to manufacture not just to supply to the vast domestic market, but to become a net exporter to the world, which Narendra Modi’s political economic genius will make happen. Modi’s success does not come from textbooks of economics, in which case Manmohan Singh should have been a grand success, not the gross failure he is. Narendra Modi’s model is the Gujarati/ Indian prototype of self-help and self-respect{Here is the simple definition of NaMo/Gujarat Model for S.TN-vasis}, whereas Nitish Kumar bases his politics on whingeing. Indians will sacrifice for a good cause, but Nitish Kumar has metamorphosed into a scary and repulsive redistributionist. Bihar is not the first state to be discriminated by the United Progressive Alliance regime at the Centre. Look at J.Jayalalithaa’s Tamil Nadu or Punjab or Karnataka. Gujarat is the particular target of the Centre’s step-motherly treatment. It is denied natural gas, a fair share of coal, but manages splendidly by raising its own resources and by innovation. What prevents Nitish Kumar from doing the same?

If Nitish Kumar wants to truck with the Congress, that is his call. If he ends up a political cipher like Laloo Yadav, he is to blame. If he breaks with the Bharatiya Janata Party in Bihar, he faces ruin. But like it or not, Narendra Modi is on a winning track. India is getting around to accepting the idea of Modi as prime minister. If Nitish Kumar wants to be part of the trend, that is to the good. If not, he should prepare for a life in the political wilderness{Same advise for S.TN-vasis}. It may even make him sensible.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 19 Mar 2013 20:21

I wish that Nitish keeps marching backwards and ultimately meets a road accident under SuMo

Yogesh · Post by **Yogesh** » 19 Mar 2013 20:32

How many sees here the repeatation of KA- as in BJP being betrayed by the opportunist partner..playing this game along with development mantra make wonders in this states..even if NK leaves the allaince. Lallo lal would be happiest soul now a days with this tamasha though

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2013 20:46

I will make a MB analogy here.

INC is like Jarasamdha (J). Like J, INC too is holding ~100 kings hostage. And other satraps of J are either blood-related (here the blood is Abrahamic/Secular connection) or worship J for his strengths/Paisachik-nature.

This list of Satraps can be seen in below image.

The list includes - DMK, NCP, RLD, NC, SP, BSP, RJD, JD(S) etc.,

Some of these satraps are in C-system camp as hostages and not willing satraps. One need to identify them.

Nitish Kumar Yadav (NKY) is modern Duryodhana. Like Duryodhana drew his core strength from Pandavas (till the MB war, the whole world respected Hastina because any declaration of war on Hastina means fighting Pandavas too - examples are Jaitrayatra) while he hates Pandavas to the core; NKY political survival is BJP's Biksha and eventhough he hates them to the core.

Now that the Pandavas got leadership of Sri Krishna, and are becoming self-assertive, kaliyuga Duryodhana is becoming bizzare. He is supporting Rukmini's forced marriage with Sishupala under the guidance of Jarasamdha.

Bharat will accept only one Emperor. So Duryodhanas will have to go with Jarasamdha in 2014

...

another interesting thing is as Sri Krishna is going after Jarasamdha; the Jarasamdha is lining up his satraps as his first/final defense [we can see this in Lalloo (sishupala

), Nitish (Duryodhana), and so on... .]

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 19 Mar 2013 21:06

When a man loses the sense of who his foes are and who is an ally then it is a given that his bad days have arrived.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Mar 2013 21:13

More of

Published on Mar 17, 2013
By Aijaz Zaka Syed
Delhi still not within striking distance: Arab News

It's almost funny. The more desperate and impatient Narendra Modi and his friends in high places become for his leap to Delhi, the more complicated it seems to become. As the year of reckoning 2014 approaches, the cacophonous media-middle class chorus for the messiah is touching ear-bursting decibel levels. Their frothing-at-mouth fawning is only matched by the depth of the gulf that separates Ahmedabad from Delhi.

The stunning snub delivered by the Wharton Business School last week, withdrawing an invitation to address its India Forum following angry protests by faculty members and students, once again turns the spotlight on Modi’s eventful past and the obstacles in his path to Delhi.

As the city’s patron saint Hazrat Nizamuddin famously told a vengeful sultan, Delhi remains far off (‘Hanooz Dilli dur ast’) for the Gujarat satrap who increasingly acts as if he earned the throne from his father. Even more overbearing than Modi’s sense of entitlement is the endless panting and pining of the mob around him.

But despite all the sanitizing and whitewashing done over the past 11 years to restitute and reinvent him by spinmeisters and a groveling media, Modi’s past continues to eclipse his present and future. There has been an endless deluge of feel-good features and articles idolizing him and the miraculous development that Gujarat has apparently seen in his glorious raj.
Every time there’s a mention of 2002, it’s instantly drowned out in the development din. Modi drove home the message once again this week in his address to the diaspora, hastily put together by the powerful overseas friends of the BJP to recompense for the Wharton rebuke. “When we get a mandate of five years, we must work on that and serve people selflessly. If we do that, then people will forgive our mistakes as well,” said the chief minister in his unusual definition of development and democracy. By the way, this is the closest he has come to acknowledging the 2002 genocide, let alone apologizing for it.

Can development be a substitute for justice though and somehow compensate for crimes against humanity? Is it enough to wash one’s sins as serious as killing of more than 2,000 people? Even if Modi’s Gujarat has indeed witnessed unprecedented growth and development, a seriously questionable claim given the state’s long history of commerce and a robust economy, what does it prove?

Germany saw a more rapid economic and industrial growth after Hitler came to power riding on the wave of the post-War hysteria and look where it in the end got the European nation. If development and economic growth are the sole criterion for the leadership of the great republic, then many South Indian states in recent years have registered an even faster growth rate.

Why even Bihar chief minister and BJP’s ally Nitish Kumar, who has repeatedly warned the party against fielding Modi and called for a leader with “secular credentials and absolute faith in democratic values,” would make a better PM. Under Kumar, Bihar has recorded a staggering 11.95 percent annual growth rate, the highest among all Indian states including Gujarat. He hasn’t just turned around the infamous state, he has won the trust of all communities.

For all his recent talk of “sadbhavna” (reconciliation), Muslims remain locked out of Modi’s development juggernaut, as the Jews were in Nazi Germany. Not a single Muslim, not even the likes of Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi and Shahnawaz Hussain, was fielded by the BJP in the recent Assembly elections. In the words of Toorjo Ghose, who with two other faculty members of Pennsylvania University, spoiled Modi’s Wharton party, there are serious holes in his development story.

The condition of Dalits and minorities, especially Muslims, according to hunger and health indices, is one of the worst, says Ghose. The Gujarat government has even blocked the paltry funds and scholarships earmarked by the central government for the marginalized groups because it sees them as “minority appeasement.”

In his address to Indian Americans, Modi also put forth an interesting definition of secularism: “I have a very simple definition of secularism: India First. In whatever we do or decide India must get priority.” This is awfully touching, of course. One who has relentlessly gone after an entire community and terrorized it for the past 11 years will now lecture India and the world in secularism.

Be that as it may, according to his own definition, all Indians, regardless of their religious and communal identities, are Indians first in the eyes of the state. But in reality what happened in Modi’s Gujarat in 2002? The state led by its ruler for months hunted a community in full view of the world.

Yet his supporters are outraged every time references to his past inevitably crop up. Indeed, if the past continues to live and breathe and like a stubborn ghost refuses to go away, credit goes to the man himself. It’s his continuing witch-hunt of Muslims and whistleblowers like Rahul Sharma and Sanjiv Bhatt who dared to confront him that has kept the 2002 legacy alive.

For all his claims about his innocence being proven in courts, Supreme Court has repeatedly rebuked and censured him besides shifting more than 2,000 riot cases outside Gujarat. Last year, the top court again pulled up the chief minister for “harassing activists fighting for justice with trumped up charges.” More important, Modi’s top lieutenants like Babu Bajrangi and senior minister Maya Kodnani are serving long prison terms for their role in the massacre of Muslims.

The only reason Modi hasn’t ended up with them is because of the protection that power provides in India, not to mention the methodic destruction of all evidence that the administration has presided over during the past decade or so. And this man who belongs in the world court is not only repeatedly elected, he is now the pretender for the top job in the largest democracy on the planet.

So will the unthinkable really happen? The very thought is scary as 2014 is not too far off. Given the royal mess that the Congress has made of the UPA II and the increasing aversion of the heir apparent for the battle ahead, not to mention the lack of a third alternative, the voters are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. One is reminded of the evocative lines from Yeats’ Second Coming:

Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

He concludes on a stark note:
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?

But being a hopeless idealist I would like to believe that India and its people will not allow this to happen. This great, diverse land of Gandhi and Buddha knows it deserves better. Its collective wisdom and common sense will prevail in the end. If India remains a secular, democratic polity, it’s because of its peace-loving, reasonable majority.
With its mind-boggling diversity and myriad competing identities, India needs a leader who carries everyone along and, above all, protects and unites them. Not someone who hasn’t just deeply polarized the nation even before stepping into the saddle but has divided his own party and the alliance it leads. So Delhi is still far off from Ahmedabad. Hanooz Dilli door ast.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Mar 2013 21:21

Published on Mar 19, 2013
British Foreign Minister Swire to visit Gujarat tomorrow: Economic Times

AHMEDABAD: The British Minister of State for Foreign Office Hugo Swire, alongwith a high-level trade delegation is scheduled to visit Gujarat tomorrow, a move viewed as strengthening of re-engagement with the state after a decade-long boycott by Britain post 2002 riots.

Swire is likely to be accompanied by a large business delegation, including a team from UK's oil and gas major BG Group, which has business interest in Gujarat.

The British Minister is scheduled to meet Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi tomorrow, and explore possibilities of cooperation and tie-ups in various sectors.

"British Minister of State for Foreign Office Hugo Swire will be in Gujarat tomorrow," a spokesperson at British High Commission Office in Mumbai told PTI.

Ending a 10-year boycott of Narendra Modi, imposed after the 2002 riots, the UK in October last year had announced to resume engagement with Gujarat.

Marking the end of boycott, British High Commissioner James Bevan had visited Gandhinagar in October last year and had discussed a range of issues including trade and commerce with the Gujarat CM.

The BG delegation is likely to be headed by the group's Executive Vice President and Managing Director for Africa, Central and South Asia, Sami Iskander, official sources said.

During the visit, BG Group is likely to 'firm up' the long term gas supply agreement signed with Gujarat government owned Gujarat State Petroleum Corporation (GSPC) in September, 2011.

Iskander, is likely to sign an agreement with GSPC tomorrow, to firm up the Heads of Agreement (HoA) for long term gas supply to the state PSU.

BG Group had signed a HoA with GSPC for the long-term supply of up to 2.5 million tonnes per annum of Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG), on September 29, 2011.

The HoA sets out the basis on which BG Group proposes to sell the LNG volumes to GSPC for up to a 20-year period beginning as early as 2014. The LNG volumes will be sourced from the Group's global supply portfolio, the BG group portal stated.

Official sources said negotiations have been going on between the BG group and GSPC, with an intention to complete negotiations and execute a fully termed LNG sales and purchase agreement early next year.

"If the contract is firmed up, LNG supplies to India could begin soon from the UK based BG group," they said.

In 2009, BG India Energy Solutions Private Limited (BGIES), a wholly-owned subsidiary of BG Group, commenced midstream gas marketing operations in India to undertake wholesale marketing and distribution of natural gas.

BGIES continues to pursue LNG business opportunities with existing and new potential counterparties to source gas in India, and to secure global LNG supplies from BG Group's flexible LNG portfolio.

At the end of 2011, BG Group had supplied 35 LNG cargoes to India, the company portal stated.

Modi should really make the bunch of rascals dance! Only if there is a complete silence in the British media on Guj 2002 violence and lots of Gujju worship in the last 6 months, should Modi even accept to meet these people. A single wrong article should be enough to spoil the "atmospherics". Modi should play the British the way the Chinese do it!

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 19 Mar 2013 22:08

Sushupti wrote:Hmmm!!

This kind of pseudo-ascetic philosophy has no place in right-wing politics. We need sharp and shrewd people who can run rings around the opponents.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2013 22:11

RamaY, There was Delhi scholar who wrote for an US magazine that the Mahabharata is not an ancient war but an ongoing war in everyday lives of Indians through out their existence.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2013 22:13

Sushupti et al...

There is "my view and your view and in between are the facts."

So its best for forum harmony that we stick to the facts.

Thanks,

ramana

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 19 Mar 2013 22:14

Warrior for a river

Reading sushuptijis diatribes about a certain type in one community,muppallajis suspicions about one communitys apprehensions about narendrabhai,I feel compelled to post about a zealous warrior who seems to me to be a metaphor for a crusader trying to clean up the system.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 19 Mar 2013 22:18

http://t.co/UMxndNF1SI

Emails being sent on the behalf of Wharton officials in UPenn.

This is something very sinister. Clear EJ angle IMHO.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 19 Mar 2013 23:06

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1427351

Retrun of the Mansabdar

TCA Srinivasa Raghavan

The tensions between an economically powerful Centre and politically strong regions have led to conflict between nation and country
As an avid watcher of Hindi films and Hindi serials, I have be
en struck by how rapidly both have begun using some highly localised patois, most strikingly in Omkara and Gangs of Wasseypur. In the soaps, this is pretty ubiquitous now. I daresay the same thing is happening in non-Hindi films as well.

As one looks around at the rapid advance of this new dimension of regionalism, one cannot help wondering about the direction in which we are headed. As I have pointed out fairly often elsewhere, India has been gradually sliding back into the normal state of the State — of an economically powerful (if not rich) Centre and a politically and culturally strong periphery.

All the angst expressed by political scientists about the State not doing its bit is about this problem: mansabdari has crept back in since 1996 and is now fully reinstalled. To see how, all you have to do is to replace sawars (horsemen) of the mansabdari system with MPs in our version of the Westminster model.

For a mansab in the old days strength depended on how many sawars he could provide to the central power; today it depends on the number of MPs he can provide. Not just that. The old mansabdars comprised strong dynastic family rule whose later inheritors went on to defy the central government. That too is happening now, at least where family successors are available. The old wine has oozed back into the new bottle.

In the 1950s and 1960s, when I was growing up, the political leadership was still very worried by what it called India’s “fissiparous tendencies.” So the Congress made a huge effort towards the homogenisation of India. This took different forms but, overall, the purpose was to create a composite Indian identity to replace the old regional and communal ones.

To an extent the effort was successful but it doesn’t seem to have stood the test of time.

Today the Congress, by capturing the woollier liberals’ minds, has ensured that it is entirely politically correct to place the Indian identity on par with a regional or a communal one wherein communities and individuals enjoy the same freedoms. That this is logically impossible has not entered the post-1990s Indian Liberal brain.Very good point,though in typical chindu fashion,he does not clarify/explain what the problems are and why the tensions arise. The question therefore arises, as Alberto Alesina and Bryony Reich have asked in a recent, rather technical, paper called “Nation Building” available on the website of the National Bureau of Economic Research (U.S.), what are the incentives for governments to homogenise?

(Alesina, to those who may not have heard of him, is one of the world’s leading economists, an economist’s economist like Avinash Dixit and Prasanta Pattanaik. He is an Italian who made his reputation in the 1980s at Harvard, and for the last several years has concerned himself with applying the techniques and concepts of economics to governance problems.)

The issue Alesina and Reich have sought to resolve has special relevance to India: why do nations stay together?

To quote: “Nations stay together when citizens share enough values and preferences and can communicate with each other. Homogeneity amongst people can be built with education, teaching a common language to facilitate communication, but also by brute force such as prohibiting local cultures. Democracies and non-democracies have different incentives when it comes to choosing how much and by what means to homogenize the population.”

One important conclusion that Alesina and Reich reach is that greater democracy can actually reduce the tendency towards homogenisation because the incentives in a democracy work towards that. Dictatorships and autocracies tend to homogenise more. The evidence the authors adduce is impressive and should engage the attention of political scientists and economists working together rather than in silos.

There are, of course, different types of “homogenization technology.” It turns out that autocratic governments implement education reforms better than democracies. “One of the reasons why public education is not privatised may be the fear of a loosening of sense of national unity. Often what is taught in school is highly coordinated.”

This does not mean democracies always end up failing in the homogenisation effort. They do build roads to provide full connectivity, which is an important element of homogenisation. “A sense of patriotism is built even in a democracy, but most of the time with less emphasis and aggressiveness than in some dictatorships.”

The key to understanding this is the notion that the provision of public goods work towards greater homogenisation. An equal (they don’t say equitable) tax burden on everyone is another way — everyone detests the government equally and in that sense the population is homogenised.

Jokes apart, the gradual divergence in economic and political power in India, wherein the Centre and the States are interdependent in a way that leads to non-cooperative strategic behaviour; the tendency of democratic pressures to fragment the population into vote banks; the growth of fuzzy liberalism which replaces the aspirations of the Silent with the individual views of the Loud; and many other developments in India in the last 17 years ought to lead to some quiet re-examination of the conflict that is developing between nation and country.

Alesina and Reich’s paper provides a good starting point.

[email protected]

[/quote]

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Mar 2013 23:12

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Mar 2013 23:16

cha cha cha - This is the real face of this man!! Don't let the other aspect fool you. Yesterday I fart3d when I heard NoKo on the TV, Noko should now break all relations with US (where I currently reside). Sushupti sir, give me 5 minutes of my life back, I dont need to read this cra*
rgds,
fanne

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 19 Mar 2013 23:17

varunkumar wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Hmmm!!

This kind of pseudo-ascetic philosophy has no place in right-wing politics. We need sharp and shrewd people who can run rings around the opponents.

Key word is "Individualism" and you know whom he is talking about.