AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

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eklavya
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by eklavya »

^^^^^
What a load of hogwash. Are you a VHP follower / member?
VHP chief: 'Agent' Sonia go back to Italy
Bhopal: Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) International leader Ashok Singhal launched a ferocious verbal attack on Congress chief Sonia Gandhi. Singhal, known for his blunt and sensational statements, said that Gandhi has come to India with some ulterior motive and it's about time that she should be sent back to the Vatican City.

Speaking at a 'Dharma Sabha' here, he went further and said Sonia Gandhi was an opus dei agent.

Singhal alleged that the Congress-led UPA government is trying to 'finish' organisations like Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) by connecting them with terrorism.

He claimed that the UPA Chairman wants to dissolve all Hindu groups in the country, and hence the government is stressing unnecessarily on 'saffron terror'.

Singhal added that Congress General Secretary and Sonia Gandhi's son, Rahul Gandhi, is still a kid.

He said the entire land of Ram Janmabhoomi in Ayodhya should be handed to Ram Janmabhoomi Trust for construction of a grand Sri Ram temple.

To create awareness towards constructing the Ram temple, VHP has taken up a four-month 'Hanuman Shakti Jagaran' campaign throughout the country, Singhal said.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Manish_Sharma »

eklavya wrote:^^^^^
What a load of hogwash. Are you a VHP follower / member?
http://hinduworldvision.wordpress.com/2 ... s-gautier/
Are we heading towards a Christian India ?
by Francois Gautier
In a word with you, India news on April 11, 2011 at 12:40 pm



I am a westerner and a born Christian. I was mainly brought up in catholic schools, my uncle, Father Guy Gautier, a gem of a man, was the parish head of the beautiful Saint Jean de Montmartre church in Paris ; my father, Jacques Gautier, a famous artist in France, and a truly good person if there ever was one, was a fervent catholic all his life, went to church nearly every day and lived by his Christian values. There are certain concepts in Christianity I am proud of : charity for others, the equality of system in many western countries, Christ’s message of love and compassion….

Yet, I am a little uneasy when I see how much Christianity is taking over India under the reign of Sonia Gandhi :

according to a 2001 census, there are about 2.34 million Christians in India ; not even 2,5% of the nation, a negligible amount.

Yet there are today five Christian Chief ministers in Nagaland, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Kerala and Andhra Pradesh.

One should add that the majority of politicians in Sonia Gandhi’s closed circle are either Christians or Muslims. She seems to have no confidence in Hindus.

Ambika Soni, a Christian, is General Secretary of the Congress and a very powerful person, with close access to Sonia Gandhi. Oscar Fernandes is Union Programme Implementation Minister. Margaret Alwa is the eminence grise of Maharasthra.

Karnataka is virtually controlled by AK Anthony, whose secretaries are all from the Southern Christian association. Valson Thampu, a Hindu hater, is Chairman NCERT curriculum Review Committee, John Dayal, another known Hindu baiter, has been named by Sonia Gandhi in the National Integration Council ; and Kancha Ilaya, who hates Hindus, is being allowed by the Indian Government to lobby with the UN and US Congress so that caste discrimination in India is taken-up by these bodies. ( One can also add to list Ajit jogi, and Digvijay Singh both christian converts & also Pranoy Roy, his niece Arundhati ‘suzanna’ roy )

I have nothing personnally against Sonia Gandhi, in fact she probably is a good person to win the alliegance of so many and certainly a loving mother . I share with her a love for India, like her I have lived in this country for over 30 years and like her I have married an Indian. But nevertheless, since she is at the top, Christian conversions in India seem to have gone in overdrive.

More than 4,000 foreign Christian missionaries are involved in conversion activities across different states. In Tripura, there were no Christians at independence, there are 120.000 today, a 90% increase since 1991. The figures are even more striking in Arunachal Pradesh, where there were only 1710 Christians in 1961, but 1,2 million today, as well as 780 churches! In Andhra Pradesh, churches are coming-up every day in far flung villages and there was even an attempt to set-up one near Tirupati. Many of the North-East separatist movements, such as the Mizo or the Bodos, are not only Christian dominated, but also sometimes function with the covert backing of the missionaries.

In Kerala, particularly in the poor coastal districts, you find “miracle boxes” put in local churches: the gullible villager writes out a paper mentionning his wish: a fising boat, a loan for a pukka house, fees for the son’s schooling… And lo, a few weeks later, the miracle happens ! And of course the whole family converts, making others in the village follow suit. During the Tsunami, entire dalit villages in Tamil Nadu were converted to Christianity with the lure of money.

It is true that there have been a few backlashes against missionnaries and nuns, particularly the gruesome muder of Staines and his two sons. But Belgium historian Konenraad Elst laments that « When over a thousand Hindus are killed and a quarter million Hindus ethnically cleansed in Kashmir, the world media doesn’t even notice, but watch the worldwide hue and cry when a few local riots take place and a few missionaries are killed by unidentified tribal miscreants. Christian Naga terrorists have been killing non-Christians for decades on end, and this has never been an issue with the world media, except to bewail the “oppression” of the Nagas by “Hindu India” .

More than 20,000 people have lost their lives to insurgency in Assam and Manipur in the past two decades. As recently as last week, four paramilitary Assam Rifles soldiers were killed in an ambush yesterday by the outlawed United National Liberation Front (UNLF).

The other day I was at the Madras Medical center, the foremost heart hospital in Madras. Right when you enter the lobby, you find a chapel, inviting everybody to pray, there are pictures and quotations of Christ everywhere and a priest visits all the patients, without being invited at all. Educational institutes and orphanages run by Christian organisations have become big business in Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and other states.

In Pondichery, where I am often, schools run by Adventists force their pupils, mostly Hindus, to say Christian prayers every day and attend mass. They are constantly fed anti Hindu slogans and biases under different forms, whether it is in history books, or discourses by priests during religious classes. Even in the elite schools or colleges, such as Saint Stephen in Delhi, Saint Xavier in Calcutta or Loyola college in Madras, where no direct proletization is attempted, Hindu pupils are subtly encouraged towards skepticism of their own religion, and admiration of whatever is Western.

One should also say that it’s a one way traffic : remember the furore when MM Joshi wanted the Saraswati hymn to be sung at a Chief Ministers’ meet on education ? And imagine the uproar in secular India if portions of the Bhagavad Gita, this Bible for all humanity, were read at the beginning of the day in public schools ?

Sonia Gandhi said during the last National Integration Council meeting : “We are committed to ideological battle against communal forces which seek to destroy our diversity and polarise us. Certain parties promote polarisation and confrontation. And there are certain regimes in India which promote communalism.

But is not actually the Congress under Mrs Gandhi, which is promoting communalism, by insidiously installing Christians and Muslims (and Marxists) everywhere, propping up Christian states, allowing a free hand too missionnaries and pressing for reservations for Christian Dalits and Muslims, as recently done in AP, in a nation of 850 million Hindus ?

In my country, France, a Christian majority nation , it would be unthinkable to have Hindus – or even Indian born French for that matter – in so many positions of power. Impossible also to find a non-elected, non French, non-Christian person being the absolute ruler of the country behind the scene as Sonia Gandhi is in India.

Indians like to say that the greatness of India is that it accepts a foreigner and a Christian like Sonia Gandhi.

But is’nt it rather a weakness, and an aberration ?

Can’t we find a worthy leader amongst one billion Indians ? This is an India where you see today Swami Avimukteshwarananda Saraswati of Dwarka Peeth, made to disembark from an Indian Airlines flight for carrying his holy dand, a thin bamboo stick which is a symbol of their spiritual designation, inside the aircraft cabin.

Are we heading then towards a Christian India under Sonia Gandhi’s helm? It would be a tremendous loss not only to India, but also to the world. For in India, you find the only living spirituality left on this planet.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by pentaiah »

Everything is hogwash no

If in 1969 I had said Rakiv will marry Italian
You would say hog wash

If in 1998 I would say ex IAF chief would take bribes
You would say hog wash

If in 2013 Isay Bofors bribes were paid to sitting PM
You would still say hog wash

If some said that Indian PMs wife would be Italian
and Nehru dynasty would rule India you wild say Hog Wash

For me Congress is Hogwash because its full of pigs
And you still say its hogwash
Then you are right indeed
habal
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by habal »

eklavya wrote:^^^^^
What a load of hogwash. Are you a VHP follower / member?
Yes, VHP member. Very High Power.
RajeshA
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

habal ji,

a pity you deleted your post on various connections between top layers of Indian leadership and Italy and Italians. In this thread they would have been justified.
member_20317
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by member_20317 »

habal wrote:
eklavya wrote:^^^^^
What a load of hogwash. Are you a VHP follower / member?
Yes, VHP member. Very High Power.

:rotfl: & I am Mohan Bhagwat. Goodmorning ji.


Seriously though I have had chaiwala info on certain other kinds of things. Mainly about the sheer venality involved for certain kinds of gains. Reads like one of those novels, 'The Firm' etc.
habal
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by habal »

^^ RajeshA

& you want to see me in trouble. hain ? Those people are still around today. At the minimum libel or lawsuit or you know CBI raided whom today morning.

>>Reads like one of those novels, 'The Firm' etc.

Reality very much like fiction, only more slapstick.

BTW in any political office, the PA to the politician wields all the power. He is more connected than his boss in almost all cases. Recently there was the case of a small minority party rejecting their own candidate who is minister from their party on grounds that he didn't appoint the PA of their choice. Iska matlab kya .. the PA is incharge of collecting various favors, benefits, exchanging of paper etc. Everything happens through PA.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

habal ji,

No sir! I wouldn't want any trouble to come to you or any of your dear ones! But Internet is full of CTs onlee!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by eklavya »

pentaiah wrote:Everything is hogwash no

For me Congress is Hogwash because its full of pigs
And you still say its hogwash
Then you are right indeed
pentaiah, the corruption is all too real: 2G, commonwealth games, coal blocks, the DLF deals with her son-in-law, agusta westland, etc etc etc. The nepotism is also all too real: she just appointed her son to be the next leader of the Congress party. But why bring religion, Vatican, Opus Dei, etc into it? The battle against corruption and family-based control of political organisations gets weakened by giving your opponent's actions a religious cloak. It makes it appear that they are working for some "higher cause" rather than just shamelessly and unlawfully accumulating power & wealth for themselves and their family members.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Chandragupta »

habal wrote:^^ RajeshA

& you want to see me in trouble. hain ? Those people are still around today. At the minimum libel or lawsuit or you know CBI raided whom today morning.

>>Reads like one of those novels, 'The Firm' etc.

Reality very much like fiction, only more slapstick.

BTW in any political office, the PA to the politician wields all the power. He is more connected than his boss in almost all cases. Recently there was the case of a small minority party rejecting their own candidate who is minister from their party on grounds that he didn't appoint the PA of their choice. Iska matlab kya .. the PA is incharge of collecting various favors, benefits, exchanging of paper etc. Everything happens through PA.
Saar..I missed it onleee... :((

If you have it saved, bliss to forward to abhesheksharma at gmail dot com
RajeshA
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

eklavya wrote:But why bring religion, Vatican, Opus Dei, etc into it? The battle against corruption and family-based control of political organisations gets weakened by giving your opponent's actions a religious cloak. It makes it appear that they are working for some "higher cause" rather than just shamelessly and unlawfully accumulating power & wealth for themselves and their family members.
Well actually the two may not be such opposing matters: "higher cause" religion and accumulating wealth in this case! Vatican and issues of money matters are legendary!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Cosmo_R »

habal wrote:RE Francois Gautier etc. He's entitled to his opinion.

When you fill up all kinds of details for applying for a visa, this details are accessible to all manner of foreign agencies and they can use this for various purposes. For example, during the intro programs, a very good looking girl can suddenly begin to show interest in you and only make enquiries regarding you and talk only to you, this particular person though may show minimal interest in her regular curriculum, and spend more time researching about your habits and offer to drive you home etc. Of course an ordinary Indian boy will be flattered with such attention.

I think such things happen all the time. And many fall for it as well.
I'm not much into CT but I could easily be persuaded on this RG/AM thingie. I continue to be astonished at how the 'narrative' has been scrubbed and revised over the last 10 years or so. Before that it was murky to begin with.

FWIW, I still find it hard to believe that SG is anything more than a figurehead for really powerful (Indian) interests.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Nandu »

Italy says will send its marines back to India for trial.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 5c6d02.2b1
rgsrini
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by rgsrini »

Glad to see that India didn't capitulate. Italy and its co-conspirators in India have realized their folly finally. Good for Italy, for having decided to be on the right side of India. Hopefully, the media will not go overboard with its praise for Italy. They thought they could get away with betrayal, but couldn't manage it. It will take a lot more to prove that it was just a momentary lapse of judgement and not condescension/racisim.

US stood neutral. EU showed its true colors, and condescension to Indian citizens and institutions.

We also need to list the moles/traitors in Indian media who supported Italy in this affair.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Yayavar »

As I said before...this will be a great outcome for Sonia/MMS. They will have the charge of 'in-law' country removed, and press will sing praises.
Sagar G
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Sagar G »

A carefully crafted plan to allow the con party to do some image makeover. Nice !!!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Nikhil T »

Also, point to be noted - Italian Ambassador will escape the contempt of court charge since the SC in its last hearing said those proceedings will only begin if the Marines didn't return by March 22.

Second point - due to Congress' over-enthusiasm in ratifying the Bilateral Prisoner Exchange treaty, in the small chance that the Marines are convicted and sentenced, they will fly out back to Italy.

Point three - The Marines will complete their trial quickly, since there will be a special court appointed. The SC estimated the trial would've taken 'less than a month'.

So, all in all, Marines are on an Indian visit. They're not going to jail either during trial or after it.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by rajithn »

Nandu wrote:Italy says will send its marines back to India for trial.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 5c6d02.2b1
Playing to script. As i said many pages ago!

The whole drama was pre-scripted. The marines would be allowed to go to italy. Italy would refuse to send them back. India would fuss. Italy would capitulate.

Backstory: congress looks good. Stood up for the nation. Italian marines go back on the prisoner exchange treaty. AGW recipient names buried by italy in their investigations.

I hope mango-man can see through the drama.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by rajithn »

The sheer arrogance of the congis in recent times culminating with the CBI and ED action in TN today leads me to believe they have one trump card up their sleev. Most likely EVM magic.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by fanne »

EVM it is that is the only logical explanation!!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Prem »

fanne wrote:EVM it is that is the only logical explanation!!
Wont that be treason? If not it should be made so by the law.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by fanne »

??
Prem
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Prem »

Participaring in farud of Taking over a democratic country by Miss-Using EVM ought to be a consider equal to high treason with appropriate punishment by the law. No Indian shall be part of this game.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by pentaiah »

Is it the same two marines or two marines to guard the embassy or two marines to enjoy Goa beeches instead of Kovalam?

With these Italains we need to be careful dont we see we have one of our kind already?
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Cosmo_R »

Jug Suraiya wrote this before the Italians 'caved':

"A scenario dreamt up in Bollywood might go something like this: Imagine that, in order to get everyone out of a sticky situation, the Indian government let the marines go home to vote — why couldn't they have voted in the Italian embassy in India? — not unaware of the possibility that they mightn't return.

Then, when they don't come back, and the government faces flak, the PM breaks his customary vow of silence and talks tough to the Italians like a cross between Salman Khan and Ajay Devgn. Besides correcting the popular perception that he is an ineffectual leader — a 'nightwatchman', as Narendra Modi described him — the PM's verbal muscle-flexing also helps silence the snide — and unfair — remarks being made by the opposition regarding the 'Italian connection' of the Congress party.

Having had its arm strongly twisted, Italy could then comply with India's demands, and send its two guys to face the music in India. This would be a win-win situation for India. So how is it that it would also be a win-win situation for Italy? Because the two guys it sends to India might not be the two marines. Instead it could send back two guys who are a bit of an embarrassment to the Italians themselves: Silvio 'Bunga Bunga' Berlusconi and Ottavio 'Bofors' Quattrocchi."

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... a-vs-italy

The two GoIs are in cahoots :)
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Karan Dixit »

Here is my suggestion to Italy and any other country who do not want their citizens serving time in Indian prison system due to poor toilet conditions in Indian prisons.

Feel free to upgrade all the toilets in Indian prison systems. There should be no special treatment for Italian prisoners unless Italy agrees to giving special treatments to Indian prisoners in Italy.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Shalav »

It's a win for the course of justice, the SC and the GoIndia! Why bother with the taste of 'khate angoor'?

At the end of the day those Marines will (hopefully) be back by Friday and will have their day in court. The govt. stood strong, and we got what we wanted.

What's the point of the conspiracy theories? As far as I can see the govt did what everyone wanted. A strong govt. which gets what is wanted is what Rakshaks want. Why does it matter if it is a congresi govt.?

Of course one wishes this govt. also had the same focus on corruption, but I will take this.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Javee »

New Delhi: As news of Italy's decision to send back the two marines accused of killing Indian fishermen to face trial here came in, Minister of State for Home RPN Singh tweeted "India's tough stand as articulated by the PM and Sonia Gandhi has worked."

On Monday, Congress President Sonia Gandhi had slammed Italy for its refusal to send back the two marines and had asserted that no country will be allowed to take India for granted.
-NDTV

God saved our queen!!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

The Bharatiya anger should be directed at why even after a trial and a sentence, the Italian Marines should be allowed to go home. They should face Indian Justice, and that includes Indian punishment.

The hurried Indian-Italian Agreement on Letting Prisoners do their time in their home countries is UNACCEPTABLE!

After all the crime is MURDER!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by Rajput »

ramana wrote:IN San Francisco, the japanese consulate officer was indicted for domestic violence which is a crime and no immunity/shimunnity was invoked
Actually, the Japanese consulate decided to waive immunity.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by habal »

Go through the details. Even more shameless than before.
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

By the way, on the MEA site, there is no document on the India-Italy Pact which allows "a person sentenced in the territory of one contracting state may be transferred to the territory of the other .... In order to serve the sentence imposed on him."

1) I can understand if India signs such pacts with countries whose prison systems are considered below standards or cruel. As such it makes sense for say an Indian prisoner in some Arab jail to be transferred to India to serve his sentence. But should India be signing such pacts with European countries? In fact, it can serve the interests of European countries to deport unwanted Indians more easily, which can give them a motive to put Indians in jails even with made-up charges. This may in fact even be against the wishes and interests of the Indians living in Europe.

2) Does the agreement include sentences passed on to those whose crimes include terrorism against the Indian State, and other serious charges like murder and rape of Indian citizens or of people in Indian territory? If yes, why? Shouldn't the perpetrators of such heinous crimes be required to be meted Indian justice?

3) Considering how the Italian marines, who murdered two innocent Indian fishermen, have been received in Italy like heroes, it is unlikely that their time in jail in Italy would be anything less than 5 Star Hotel Treatment. That is in fact a mockery of justice! So the Italians have to serve their sentences in India, in Indian jails.

4) Why was this pact with Italy ratified by the GoI in such a hurry when the case of Italian Marines came up? Was it not for the explicit desire to let these Marines serve their term in Italy? How can such government is expected to look after Indian interests, when the GoI shows such enthusiasm to let these Marines escape real punishment!

This agreement needs to be scrapped. The Italian Marines should serve out their terms in India, in Indian jails!

If Italian Marines serve are allowed to return to Italy to be given 5-Star Hotel treatment, one would have to ask whether this Government of India looks after Indian interests or Italian interests!
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

Published on Mar 22, 2013
Italian marines won't face death penalty: Salman Khurshid: PTI
As Italy reversed its decision of not sending back its two marines, government Friday said India has given assurances to that country that they will not face death penalty and will not be liable for arrest if they return by the deadline of today set by the Supreme Court.


Hours after Italy made the announcement that the marines will return to face trial, external affairs minister Salman Khurshid told Parliament that India had given assurances after clarifications were sought on death penalty which was a "concern" to that country.

Making identical statements in both Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, he expressed happiness that the matter was being "brought to a satisfactory conclusion" and the trial will now proceed as per the directions of the Supreme Court.

related story

India hails diplomatic success over Italian marines' return
Return of marines upholds dignity of judicial process: PM
Khurshid said the government was informed through "a diplomatic approach" that Italy would be willing to send the two marines back to India as per its commitment to face trial in the case of killing two fishermen in February last year.

"It sought from India clarifications regarding the conditions applicable to the marines on their return and the provisions regarding the death penalty that could be applicable in this case which was an Italian concern. Read Khurshid's statement

"Notwithstanding the pending proceedings, the Government has informed the Italian Government that the two marines will not be liable for arrest if they return within the time frame laid down by the Supreme Court of India," he said.

The Supreme Court had allowed the marines to go to their home country for four weeks to cast votes in general elections. The four-week period expires today.

India also allayed Italy's fears by saying that "according to well settled Indian jurisprudence, this case would not fall in the category of matters which attract the death penalty, that is to say the rarest of rare cases. Therefore, there need not be any apprehension in this regard," Khurshid said.

At the same time, Khurshid said the Supreme Court had ruled that India has the jurisdiction over the case and the marines -- Massimiliano Lattore and Salvatore Giron -- shall "once again be bound by the conditions contained in the order" passed by the Court on January 18.

"The Supreme Court, in its order dated 18 January 2013, in a writ petition filed by the Italian marines and the Republic of Italy raising several jurisdictional issues, had ruled, inter alia, that India has jurisdiction," Khurshid said.

He pointed out that the SC had also ruled that "the matter will be put before a Special Court to be set up by the Union of India in consultation with the Chief Justice of India to try this case and to dispose of the same in accordance with the provisions of the Maritime Zones Act, 1976, the Indian Penal Code, the Code of Criminal Procedure and the provisions of UNCLOS 1982, where there is no conflict between the domestic law and UNCLOS 1982."

In his statement, Khurshid gave details of the sequence of events related to the case.

He noted that after Italy told India on March 11 that the marines will not return on the expiration of the permission granted to them, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had stated that Italy should respect the undertaking given to the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court, in its order of January 22, had allowed the marines to travel to Italy and the Italian government gave an undertaking to it that the marines "will be kept under its constant custody, supervision and control during this period and took full responsibility for securing" their return to New Delhi "on or before the expiry of the period permitted by the court".
1) So why are the Italian Marines not arrested? Aren't they accused of 'Murder'? Do those accused of murder stay in Embassies, and enjoy VIP treatment?

2) How can the Foreign Minister give this guarantee that they wouldn't face the death sentence? Isn't murder of two innocent fishermen punishable by "death sentence"? What jurisprudence is he talking about? How can he take such decisions before the Supreme Court has pronounced its decision?
pankajs
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by pankajs »

Saar this is not the first such assurance given on death sentence. It is a choice between getting assistance from the EU vs the choice of having fugitives from Indian justice given asylum in these countries. I would prefer EU co-operation even at the cost of forgoing death penalty than to have these folks escape justice without their co-operation.

Also to a large extent, it restores the image of our Government and Supreme court. This is an infinitely better position than them not returning at all.

The economic and defense ties would have impacted us too even if their impact on Italy would have been larger.

Do not look at this case in isolation for our interests go beyond the current case. Till we can guarantee (Not just hope) a net positive in any transaction, we should be willing to do a deal.
RajeshA
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by RajeshA »

pankajs ji,

I don't agree with you! This is not a better position than a two guys being helped by an immoral country abscond from justice. What we now have is a tamasha of justice. SC would pronounce some sentence, a few years jail, the guys would return back to Italy as heroes as would sit out their jail sentences, with their needs looked after in any way possible - they will be eating Panettone with Espresso everyday without even needing to work!

How is that justice for the dead fishermen?

If we buy this, we are buying Sonia Gandhi justice: Italians kill Indians, Italians eat cake!
pentaiah
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by pentaiah »

EU does not have death penalty
But the can kill
chaanakya
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by chaanakya »

RajeshA wrote:

1) So why are the Italian Marines not arrested? Aren't they accused of 'Murder'? Do those accused of murder stay in Embassies, and enjoy VIP treatment?

2) How can the Foreign Minister give this guarantee that they wouldn't face the death sentence? Isn't murder of two innocent fishermen punishable by "death sentence"? What jurisprudence is he talking about? How can he take such decisions before the Supreme Court has pronounced its decision?

Marines are not extradited to India but they have returned from bail after the period is over. Hence , technically, they are still in the judicial process. Govt has no authority in such cases top dictate what punishment to be given. Clearly something has been worked out with Kabir. They can not give any assurances to Italy in exchange for return of Marines. Mancini could not leave India and Indian Amby was not in Rome so the situation became unbalanced. Italian would have relented.

GOI has a Italy Pact signed in a hurry and if imprisonment is awarded, they can be sent to italy to serve the sentence. What happens then is anyone's guess.

What Drama going on with these soldout cutlets.
chaanakya
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by chaanakya »

From ToiLet

Khurshid credited his ministry, the Supreme Court and the position of his "senior" leaders for the return of the marines.

"We had no deal anywhere. No deal in Geneva, no deal in Colombo, no deal in Rome," Khurshid told reporters here.

The government and the opposition clashed on Friday over who gets the credit for Italy sending back its two Marines to India to face trial, a decision welcomed across the political spectrum.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on his part said he was happy that the "integrity and dignity" of the Indian judicial process has been upheld.
rsingh
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by rsingh »

rajithn wrote:
Nandu wrote:Italy says will send its marines back to India for trial.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 5c6d02.2b1
Playing to script. As i said many pages ago!

The whole drama was pre-scripted. The marines would be allowed to go to italy. Italy would refuse to send them back. India would fuss. Italy would capitulate.

Backstory: congress looks good. Stood up for the nation. Italian marines go back on the prisoner exchange treaty. AGW recipient names buried by italy in their investigations.

I hope mango-man can see through the drama.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't :((
ShauryaT
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Re: AugustaWestland Bribery Cover-Up, Italian Marines Let Go

Post by ShauryaT »

I am very happy to be wrong on this count on our PM. Really made me happy. All those who abused our PM on this score, please man up and apologize here!
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