Indian IT Industry

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Sachin
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

SriKumar wrote:Am curious about why this advice. It is still a vast field with many companies/projects and more on the way.
It all depends from person to person. The trend, I have seen is folks just go for a B.Tech (hook or by crook) in order to get into an IT company. And again the love for the IT job is not because of love for software engineering but because of its perceived "easy life" and "quick money". The fact that many service companies recruits folks in truck loads make oppurtunities more easier to get. So at the moment I see that lot of people flock to IT and the merit of each candidate going further and further down.

My personal feeling is that in next 5-7 years IT would be like the Banking sector before the nationalisation came in. Too many people, no unions and the IT Majors pretty much twisting all labour laws in favour of them. I dont think this off-shore model is going to work the way it even works now (and 10 years ago, this was the best working model).

When every body is running after IT, it would be some time wise to take a step or two back and see if there are other oppurtunities which are available as well. And quitely go for that. BTW, I am all for a person who likes softwares getting into the software world. At least if things go worse, he would at least like what he is doing.
Gus wrote:If you are a good civil engr, you will be better off here were you can rise up quickly and also love what you do, instead of being a 'one in 50,000' in a big IT company and slug it out in the trenches with a stressful life.
+1. This is what I told a good Communications engineer as well. His interest was in hard core communicaton engineering (and not sitting and fixing some code errors with a PM breathing down his back). A small company eagerly took him. The pay may not be as great as what an IT Co. recruit gets. But today I know that he likes the job, and has money to live and focus on his hobbies too. And when I see a similarl chap in my company struggling to write a single program in Java and getting frusturated, I know who would win in the long haul. The software engineer has pretty much destroyed two years of his work life by doing some thing which he never wanted to do.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

In the mean while...
Department of Labour to look into HCL recruits case
However, given the IT industry does not come under the Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Act, labour officials said that they were unsure how much intervention was possible.
......
There are several such unethical practices that need to be checked. But given the IT industry is exempt from the law of the land, we have no say in the matter. This is why we were pressing for industries to draft their own standing orders. That way we will be to hold them accountable,” the official said.

I feel the goose of the HCL potential recruits is already cooked. The labour dept. of the country cannot do much for them. I feel that the IT Majors (Colonels and Brigadiers) have become a law unto themselves. They are becoming their own legislature, their own judiciary and their own executive. We really need to think if such large establishments need to be given a free run, totally byepassing the labour laws. These very same companies are $hit-scared for the labour laws of Europe and the US. I am not a card carrying commie and despise some of their trade union tactics. But this is now the other extreme.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

btw pvt banks in various parts of the country are laying off people citing economic downturn.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

Singha wrote:btw pvt banks in various parts of the country are laying off people citing economic downturn.
True. Again I don't know if the Labour Dept. have a say there as well. I really dont find that having various instituitions (how ever big it, how ever ethical, coveted it is) being immune to the laws of the lands is going to bring any long term benefits to the country and people. I tend to agree with Chanakya who in Artha Sastra clearly states that traders/businessmen etc. should always be kept under observation and punishments for them should be stricter. As per him a trader has very many means to cheat, and most likely he would cheat.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Yogi_G »

All said and done these folks can pull HCL to court for reasons not linked to labour laws. They can just cite breach of trust and making commitments they dint intend to keep. One person doing it wont help much, a whole group doing it like a class suit can add some punch to it.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

Yogi_G wrote:All said and done these folks can pull HCL to court for reasons not linked to labour laws.
This also brings in another aspect. The general lack of awareness of rules and regulations. These folks may not know the various legal angles using which HCL (or another IT-Vity Maj.,Col., Brig.) can be formally asked to explain their stand. The IT Vity companies are totally mis-using the lack of legal knowledge amongst their employees (or prospective employees). This may have worked earlier because generally it was more of a win-win relation. It is very rare to find a software professional who knows about labour laws, the various sections related to salary etc. etc. In other cases Trade Unions provide this legal benefit for its folks. IT sector does not have that as well.

The Vegatable Oil.Co faced some problem when it laid off an employee. He was coerced to resign. That chap went and gave a complaint of mental harrassment against the HR lady. The case has not gone any where, but the HR heroine and her bosses had some tough time running around the police stations. The only thing which works with these companies at the moment are "name & shame tactics".
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

in pvt banks case they put pressure on people to resign rather than be laid off perhaps because labour laws are not so easy to lay off here or because it looks bad in media . people are being threatened that if they get laid off their rep will suffer and they would have trouble finding the next job.

a close relative of mine just got this treatment from a "leading pvt bank" and he was not even junior but a experienced branch manager in a mid sized town. the bank claims its going to close down that branch for lack of business...but from my father's days I know closing a branch needs some high level govt approvals as banks have social commitments here and all banks public and pvt are subject to it.
its only the foreign banks with 5 branches each who are not yet in this loop but they are restricted to some limited number of branches in india instead.

as for the tales of chaos, nepotism, harassment by higher ups inside these "leading pvt banks" with talking head IIM-certified CEOs on TV..man you wouldnt believe the ground situation. you need a relative to know the inside dirt. lets just say the whole system hangs by a thread. its mostly worse than a shenzhen plastic factory in terms of having rogue out of control bosses and no recourse. some of the things done would definitely attract significant jail time in a more law abiding country.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Aditya_V »

SriKumar wrote:
Sachin wrote: ... Profit margins are decreasing day by day. Quality of engineers/managers available is another problematic area. To all my relatives who are in colleges, one advice I give these days is to keep away from IT.
Am curious about why this advice. It is still a vast field with many companies/projects and more on the way.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Grass is always greener on the other side, My advice to everyone incl relatives, Children. Do not do CA and preferably stay from FInance. You get the wooden spoon wherever you go.

BTW I have also been laid off and have 2 months to find a job.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

Marten wrote:Another example of how Indian arms of foreign entities abuse power is Maternity Laws
Another IT-Vity Major shows x amount as a perk to an employee. Hidden clauses:-
1. The X amount needs to be claimed by showing bills.
2. The bill needs to be in the name of the IT-Vity Major
3. The stuff you purchased is the property of the IT-Vity Major for the next 5 years.
4. Every year a certifiate needs to be given by the employee that these "assets" are in working order. Most likely these certificates are used to get tax benefits for the company.

Though it looks hunky dory, if we go deeper we realise that basically the people who get this are becoming a debtor to the company. Now if the people dont use this amount, it gets lapsed (and the much promised hike is now practically zero :lol:).
Singha wrote:people are being threatened that if they get laid off their rep will suffer and they would have trouble finding the next job
Many folks might be remembering the days when NASSCOM came up with a database. IT professionals are to register there, and all credentials would be also verified. This was show cased as a good thing, because this is like a certified skill registry. This same database was used as a tool to threaten employees by saying that their names would get blacklisted in the database and no other company would recurit them. A typical case of slavery/bonded labour.

And what is NASSCOM? It is just a gang of IT-Vity companies. They are not any government body, or even a quasi-government organisation. Issues like what happened in HCL are just the tip of an ice berg. The IT industry I guess is getting out of its honey moon period now.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

dont know what my son wants to be perhaps a scientist/engg, but would prefer my daughter to be a doctor and stay in bluru to provide support in my old age.
son should definitely marry into a rich patrician local n-generations wealthy family to be financially secure for life. bahu should be nice & modern yet god fearing and well read.

thats my plan and I am sticking to it.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

there was a guy in my CSE class in NIT-W. he was the EAMCET #1 rank holder in the state but not so interested in CSE or in physics or chem. he was deeply interested in maths. was not a topper in btech but managed fine. ultimately he followed his heart and went to institute of mathematical sciences in chennai for PG. not sure where he is now, but people who had got the usual itvity jobs in campus intview were "shocked" to see him "chuck it all up" and seek a fresh beginning.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sriman »

Aditya_V wrote: BTW I have also been laid off and have 2 months to find a job.
Sorry to hear that. Good luck.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Abhijeet »

A very good report on the startup ecosystem in India:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/19/indias ... e-country/

I can identify with many of these points, especially the ones about poor infrastructure. :roll: But the general conclusion is correct that things seem to be getting better in general.

The article comments about the relative lack of IPOs and scarcity of startups in many spaces, especially compared to China. As I've said before, early stage funding and large local markets are prerequisites for a strongly competitive startup scene to emerge. The signs are that early stage funding is becoming more popular, and larger markets in selected sectors are beginning to develop.

The report is worth reading in full.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by svinayak »

http://news.yahoo.com/end-indian-staffi ... 01833.html

The end of Indian IT staffing as we know it
Reuters – 7 hrs ago
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Reuters - Employees work at the Indian headquarters of iGate in Bangalore February 4, 2013. REUTERS/Stringer/Files
By Harichandan Arakali and Tony Munroe
BANGALORE/MUMBAI (Reuters) - India's IT outsourcers are promoting "mini CEOs" capable of running businesses on their own, while trimming down on the hordes of entry-level computer coders they normally hire as they try to squeeze more profits out of their staff.
The shift by Infosys Ltd (INFY.NS) and others is symptomatic of a maturing industry that wants more revenue from its own intellectual property instead of providing only labour-intensive, lower-margin information technology and back-office services.
For young graduates who see the $108 billion IT industry as a sure pathway to modern India's growing middle class, the transformation is unsettling.
Dozens of industry aspirants who were recruited on campus by No. 4 player HCL Technologies (HCLT.NS) recently protested outside its offices in several cities. They were offered jobs in 2011 before graduating last year but have not yet been given joining dates - or paychecks.
"Dear H.R. You were also a fresher... once," read a sign carried by two protesters in a photo in The Hindu newspaper.
GRAPHIC on India's IT sector growth: http://link.reuters.com/ruc86t
For slideshow -- Peek into Indian BPOs, click http://in.reuters.com/news/pictures/sli ... =INRTXXWL0
HCL's December quarter profits and revenues rose while staff numbers shrank - a rare trick in an industry that has long aspired to break the linear relationship between headcount and revenue growth.
Just 20 percent of the 5,000-6,000 campus recruits offered HCL jobs in 2011 have been taken on board since graduation last summer, and HCL said it made no offers in 2012 to students who would graduate in June 2013.
Slower growth, fewer people leaving, greater demand by customers for experienced staff, and increased productivity through automation and software have put pressure on all recruits, according to HCL, which said it expects to accelerate bringing entry-level staff on board from August.
"It's not that the demand doesn't exist. It exists for different skills," said Ajay Davessar, HCL's head of external communications.
"Typical roles which a student thinks, 'I'll just go there and start coding, and have a good life,' are being tested to reality... Any applicant, be it fresher or senior, will have to have flexibility in applying the skills elsewhere."
FEWER 'CODING COOLIES'
Tech Mahindra Ltd (TEML.NS), the No.5 player, is naming 100 of what it calls mini-CEOs who will be given broad latitude to run their parts of the business.
"We're moving towards a situation like the developed economies, where we're asking the people to be more deep," said Sujitha Karnad, who heads human resources at Tech Mahindra.
"We want more solution architects to be here. We don't want the coding coolies anymore, that's clear," Karnad said, employing a term commonly used in India in association with menial labourers.
While plenty of Indian back office work such as technical support, processing insurance claims or staffing call centres will remain labour-intensive, software services firms are looking to move up the value chain, which means relying less on the time and toil of staff.
Growth in revenue per employee across the industry could expand to 5 percent a year in the next two years from about 3 percent over the past five, said Forrester Research principal analyst Frederic Giron. The growth rate is likely to accelerate from around 2015 as intellectual property-based work accounts for a growing share of the total, he said.
India's IT services industry grew in large part because of the availability of cheap skilled labour, an advantage that is eroding as wages and other costs in India rise.
In years past, it was cost-effective for IT companies to hire new graduates by the thousands and keep a portion on the "bench" awaiting deployment on a client project.
But budget-constrained clients now demand shorter lead times. IT vendors that might have hired people six months in advance of an expected contract are now working with a one- or two-month window, said Surabhi Mathur Gandhi, senior vice president at TeamLease, a staffing consultancy.
Traditionally, about 30 percent of Indian IT services industry staff are on the bench at any given time, often in training, as they await deployment to client work.
In the December quarter, about 70 percent of Infosys staff and less than 65 percent at No. 3 provider Wipro (WIPR.NS) were deployed on billable projects. At Tata Consultancy Services (TCS.NS), the largest Indian IT services company, the figure was 72 percent, within what Ajoyendra Mukherjee, its human resources head, calls the comfort range of 70 to 74 percent utilisation.
"I think we can push it up to 75, 76," he said.
Another IT services company, iGate Corp (IGTE.O), envisions a future where just 10 percent of staff sit on the bench, said Srinivas Kandula, its human resources head, who predicts that the size of its bench will shrink by 2 or 3 percentage points a year over the next five years.
BACK-UP PLAN
Shorter benches mean a smaller share of hiring is direct from campuses, as seasoned professionals moving from a competitor would be less willing to wait to be deployed and firms are reluctant to pay them to do so.
Companies are also binding hires, especially experienced ones, with three-month notice periods and no-buy-out clauses, compared with one-month notice periods previously.
Among top-tier companies that are most actively trying to push non-linear growth where revenues are not constrained by the size of the work force, about 70 percent of employees are experienced staff, up from 60 percent in 2008, said Rajiv Srinivas, an associate director at Tech Mahindra, who expects that to rise to about 90 percent in the next two or three years.
At Infosys, while the net quarterly addition of employees fell from 4,906 people in the March quarter last year to 977 in the December quarter (excluding an acquisition), lateral recruitment held steady at an average of about 4,300 staff per quarter through December, meaning the percentage of campus hires was much lower.
"Earlier, the focus was more on career ... You get into a job, you start learning, and slowly acquire knowledge over a period of time," said Sunil Gupta, who joined Infosys as vice president of quality about six months ago from the Indian unit of CGI Group's (GIBa.TO) Logica Plc.
"Today the value of a professional is judged by how quickly you're learning, how quickly you're adapting yourself and changing along with the environment," he said.
For young Indians who saw IT as a ticket into the middle class, the change means that career path is becoming less clear. Those who do break in and build valuable skills will remain in demand, but the days of young IT staffers brandishing five or more competing offers are over.
Yet that hasn't necessarily translated into slower wage growth. Mercer LLC expects industry salaries to grow 12 percent this year, the same as in 2012. As India's economy diversifies, graduates have more attractive career options, including at multinationals with a growing India presence, such as Google Inc (GOOG.O), which means IT vendors must fight to stay attractive.
"We see IT companies as a back-up," said S. S. Jayaram, a final-year engineering student in Bangalore who says he chose a job in India with Mu Sigma Inc, a fast-growing U.S.-based data analytics company, over offers from IBM and TCS.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

my BIL also got relieved from his branch manager job in a rural branch of a pvt bank. he wants to move into pvt sector. he has no background in PMP or even progamming / "herding cats" kind of stuff. his background is commerce BA and mba finance from a central govt univ.

does he stand a chance of entering ITvity purely on basis of core banking knowledge?

and age is not on his side...he is around 37 yrs with 2 kids now.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Aditya_V »

ChandraV wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Grass is always greener on the other side, My advice to everyone incl relatives, Children. Do not do CA and preferably stay from FInance. You get the wooden spoon wherever you go.

BTW I have also been laid off and have 2 months to find a job.
Sorry to hear that. Are you a CA - and are you in India, or in Unkil-land or elsewhere? All the best in landing a new job, wherever you are.
CA in India. thanks hope to do and we guys always have the option to practice. Any Maulaners with Direct or indirect tax problems?
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Bade »

It is amusing to see all the capitalist chest thumpers out here discussing labour standards and laws when things are getting only slightly tight if at all. You IT-Vity folks including mid and senior level mangers have been pampered for too long. I hear it is 10% of more raise even now. Just suck up and put in the hard work for that kind of pay.

Shq and some of her colleagues are still out of a job for the last 6 months. Things have been like this in the You-Ess since the fall after the dot com days.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

GD one of my manager's in my first Co was a lateral too i.e. he had like 12 years of experience with one of the car makers in India in sales and marketing; he started at mid-manager level in mid 2006-7 and was doing pretty well; after a couple of years no one could tell that he was new to ITVTY.

Bade actually there is no capitalist connection here; ITVTY is relatively a high paying field there are no two ways about it now is that right/appropriate is another matter. One can live without any substantial hike in USA for like couple of years and he/she won't notice for there is no such thing as inflation there in my ~6 years in States I never gave rising prices a thought (I did not know such a thing existed in the first place) , however that is not the case in India . There is a flat 15% increase in house rent; auto fares and cost of other essential commodities in India every year. I was paying like 900$ for a 2BHK apartment (easily 1200 sqft) in CT for 4 years ; rent for similar sized apartment in Indiranagar is 500$ and you won't get even half the amenities.

People including print media often try to boast about 2 digit hikes by major Services or Product cos in India and brag about it by comparing it with WEST but they don't take into the account two things i.e. INFLATION and secondly the fact that even to this day the ratio of revenue generated by a resource to the amount paid to him in India is far higher than that in the west (at least it is the case in case of Consulting/Services where one gets charged on an hourly basis) in case of R&D roles the math is not as straightforward for it is difficult to quantify one's contribution using some general rule of a thumb.

Coming to joblessness in the States from my experience what I found is it has a lot to do with one's reluctance to learn new stuff and move across domains and times even relocate to another state which causes one to loose ground to someone else who might have lesser experience in terms of number of years but willing to learn new things and even change his/her base location to remain relevant in the market. Fact is India has seen the BAD days America has not for an American not being able to switch cars every 2 years might be a nightmare and cause of major grief compare that to an Indian for whom buying a 800-1000 sqft 2BHK flat in any tier 1 city despite 8-10 years of slogging is a big deal.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Bade »

Let me argue on behalf of IT-VITY capitalist MNCs. The margins are higher for them in India, but isn't it those entities who bought IT-VITy jobs to India in the first place. The coolies existence is only incidental. If the margins were low why would the jobs move out of west to India.

Food is still cheap in India. The only thing that is expensive is real estate and to me it looks like IT-Vity has a lot to do with it. You will hardly find It-Vity folks in US owning more than one home. At times even one is more. I know many Bay area folks who rent rather than own. And these are not singles, but with family and extended visiting ones too.

OTOH, Blur based IT folks own multiple units and prices are testimony to that. Maybe the lowest level cadre does not yet, but many mid level folks do and I know quite a few myself.

I do not think 40+ or 50+ old Indian IT folks are learning the new trade every couple of years, they just graduated to managing the hordes they hire fresh out of college with more recent skills perhaps. Go anywhere in the world and the chances of older folks learning new trade to keep up diminishes rapidly, just natures way. Indians are not immune to it. When you hit 50 you will realize too. :-) It is just the talking heads who talk new jargon and keep their careers alive and claim updated skills. I just had such a brief given to me by a dear friend in the business. He makes his money by talking not actual work. But such is life.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

^ The NRIs in Massa in fact contribute to the real estate boom here why will they buy another home in US given the real estate scene there (they can very much buy/own one there fck even I could if I would have stayed back; a flat in Mantri Sarovar/Sobha Dafodil is as expensive as a 2 bedroom condo in USA )? They could be prospective RTI types but from what I know a citizen or GC holder seldom comes back for good. Another key thing is rental scene in US is very good i.e. I can stay in a nice gated premises for as many years as I would please without a risk of being thrown out or being evicted (unless I committed a crime or damaged the property real bad) that is not the case here besides rental charges are as high as monthly EMIs for a house which also help one with IT returns . I lived in a same house for about ~5 years in US and my rent only escalated from 850$ to 950$ in that period , the carpet was changed by the apartment agency every 2 years and my deposit was returned back to me after I vacated the flat (they just deducted 100$).

As for the age thing Bade ji you should see the mean/median age figure for an Indian ITVTY type versus the one in WEST there will be a good 10-15 years age difference it is the cost of hiring a 15 years experienced guy versus a 5 years experience lad for code crunching what tilts the balance in favour of the latter and unfortunately for US they don't have enough numbers of the second type. It is very simple Indian worker in US will be willing to compromise to a far larger extent than his American counterpart; to someone running a business they both are just two individuals.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Bade »

Negi, I think you made my point on RE scene in Blur. NRI's have diminishing interest in holding multiple holdings. But H1-B types with R2I agenda will always invest in India, just like gulf folks do in KL raising prices exponentially. Maybe a decade back NRIs(GC and furrin Citizens) did invest when things were cheaper and are perhaps dumping them now to reap the profits for retirement. But that game will not last forever when it is only black money that keeps it all afloat. People with hoards of black money want only a place to park it most likely, visible, usable and safe from looteras and extortion wallahs. But that is all for RE thread.

All this export related boom in IT will work for India as long as margins are good. But nothing stops Indians from innovating in IT for local use. I am sure there is more money to be made there, but none has visions to see it. As for It industry as a whole, the real savior long term will be India itself as a market not the west.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

^ Well H1B or no H1B all NRIs tend to invest in Indian real estate sector for it's too lucrative an avenue to miss out on, another aspect is Indians are emotionally charged beings they tend to buy property or invest in India despite knowing that they might never return imo it's a way to soothe their guilty conscious and also fueled by follow the herd mentality. I have not yet touched upon the point of converting your black into white for which the Indian real estate sector is again a very nice business to be into. After returning I realized that even our ITVTY fatcats are a nobody in front of the real players who deal in CASH (most of which is black) they are the ones who actually run the whole business here yeah I know I digress.

There is a lot happening in Indian IT scene it's just that volumes at this point in time cannot be compared to license/services sales in US/EU we recently sold product licenses worth a million $ to a major Indian Bank it's our biggest deal in the entire APJ region by far but it is a pittance when compared to what we make from the NA region. One more key aspect about IT scene in India is be it products or services one needs to tailor those offerings for the Indian market even a biggie like Reliance won't buy our Product at it a price what it sells in NA the cost difference is huge same holds true for consulting services.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sriman »

Bade wrote: All this export related boom in IT will work for India as long as margins are good. But nothing stops Indians from innovating in IT for local use. I am sure there is more money to be made there, but none has visions to see it. As for It industry as a whole, the real savior long term will be India itself as a market not the west.
That's not necessarily true. Most of the bigger service companies have long identified the domestic market as a growth area. There are huge GOI projects being executed and they're trying to expand aggressively here.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Hah! I have yet to meet a professional who recommends that their kids go into their own profession.

My dad is in finance and he swore his kids would never go into finance. I’m in engineering and I swear my kids should not follow me. My cousins are doctors and to a man/woman they swear no one should go into medicine.

It sure sucks to be a professional…..

The main problem right now is the unreal hours those of us working are expected to put in. minimum 60 hour weeks, with many averaging 70-80 hours. I don’t think our parents put in these types of hours. The oddest thing is if folks worked less, we could have 100% employment the next day, but no one even in India wants to give up the 20 lakhs per annum paychex….
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

I have no problem if my kids want to do what I do. In fact I encourage the same if they like that kind of work. For people in US salary should be the least important factor in their decision about profession/career. Almost all professions will pay enough for a reasonably good living. Unfortunately this is not the case in India and hence heavy emphasis on salaries when selecting professions. In US it is eminently possible to avoid the rat race.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Bade »

So true, US is the most egalitarian socialist society till you lose your job. :-) No better place to live if you have no connections and have to make it on your own. Even rejects from elsewhere do well here in all professions making a mockery of selection processes fine tuned elsewhere with divine blessings.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by RamaY »

Engineering students prefer IT, Google most wanted employer: Nielsen survey
New Delhi: The Information Technology sector is the most preferred choice for India's engineering students, with Google, Microsoft and Infosys emerging as the top three most desired employers among them, according to a survey by market insights and information provider Nielsen.

As per the Nielsen's Campus Track Technology School survey 2012, the Class of 2013 is looking at a starting salary of over Rs 11 lakh per annum, a 20 per cent rise from the previous batch, where the average expected starting salary was Rs 9.3 lakh.

According to the survey, the top five preferences of engineering students were IT Services (35 per cent), followed by IT products (28 per cent), energy (21 per cent), automobile and ancillary sector (20 per cent) and IT semiconductor (19 per cent).
In strategic scenarios thread, Vilayat says India needs more material, chemical etc engineers.
Vayutuvan
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

Bade wrote:So true, US is the most egalitarian socialist society till you lose your job. :-) No better place to live if you have no connections and have to make it on your own. Even rejects from elsewhere do well here in all professions making a mockery of selection processes fine tuned elsewhere with divine blessings.
That danger is ever present. Even the "revisionist" society of the yore could not protect jobs of its citizens after it broke up and became FSU. The only mantra that would save anybody is "want not - waste not". Very hard to convince one's family and friends though.

:?: did not get the "divine blessings" reference.

BTW, in the item posted by Acharya there is some thing about Ajoy Mukherjee. He is a very smart guy who was an excellent programmer when he was starting out in TCS. Most probably an outlier compared to other HR drones.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Bade »

Nothing specific to divine as understood, but each institution thinks its selection process is all fine tuned and best they have. If someone did not make it then they really lack something to belong there. The blessing is from this group of decision makers, who know it all.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

oki doki. I was thinking something else :)
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

Bade wrote:It is amusing to see all the capitalist chest thumpers out here discussing labour standards and laws
;). I guess every nation does have some laws and rules related to labour. Does'nt the capitalist USA have one? Some have very liberal laws, some others have it stricter. Where as in India, a law does not exist for IT-Vity folks. I would add that the folks employed in this sector are responsible for this. Many of the folks live in their own cocoons. Individualism was encouraged to a very high level, with the negative fall out being the skill to think as a group and check out the happenings *.
The only thing that is expensive is real estate and to me it looks like IT-Vity has a lot to do with it.
Agree with you here. Infact there is a large scale buying happening out here, which naturally inflates the price. At one point of time IT-Vity folks did have the money to throw around. But whether it can be sustained in the long run, is yet to be seen. A kind of "rat race" has set in, that is what I feel. And I agree with negi when he talks about 'follow the herd' mentality.
So true, US is the most egalitarian socialist society till you lose your job.
Does US Govt. have any initiatives to help their unemployed? Say some sort of subsistance allowance or ways to make them employed? At least in case if IT-Vity in India, a major risk is that the GoI has no provisions in these lines. Don't think a kind of social security net does not exist for any other group of workers as well.
negi wrote:There is a flat 15% increase in house rent; auto fares and cost of other essential commodities in India every year
IT-Vity did pay hefty in its early days. Most of the people hoped the trend to continue and made their forecasts. But this "hefty pay" became "standard pay" because of all the other associated costs of living increasing in the same way. I am really interested to know how pure IT-Vity cities like Bangalore would cope up when a large scale recessions happens out here. People may move out, or have to rethink on their cost of living and make cuts. But there is a huge world out there building things hoping the IT-Vity customer would take it. How about them?
Sriman wrote:There are huge GOI projects being executed and they're trying to expand aggressively here.
I am not being sarcastic here. I work for one such company who says they do take up GoI work. But I am yet to see any internal or external hiring happening on this. These are precisely some of the work which I would like to get my hands on. Either it could be a case of other smart alecs already rushing in and occupying all posts, or there are no many openings out here.


* Standard disclaimer: I am not a capitalist, nor am I a pro-commie. Especially if commies mean the ones I see around in 100% literate state. When I am talking about labour and labour rights, I am talking about other areas like banking sector which has labour unions, but which are profitable as well.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by fanne »

GD,
Iflex is going big time in Core Banking. Suddenly their core banking software is selling hot in Massa
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

If at all my kid(may be someday I will get married and have one) mentions anything on the lines of joining ITVTY I will break his legs .
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Aditya_V »

11 PA if I am in IT Vity comes after about at least 8-10 years experience at AM/Manager role.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Yogi_G »

Aditya_V wrote:11 PA if I am in IT Vity comes after about at least 8-10 years experience at AM/Manager role.
Broadly yes, but again skills sets play a big part here. I know a ruby/rails resource who has 6 years experience making 26 L a year.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by member_20292 »

negi wrote:If at all my kid(may be someday I will get married and have one) mentions anything on the lines of joining ITVTY I will break his legs .
list the issues you have with IT man?

I am mat sci guy. with RnD background..IIT, Ivy etc.....and I am trying out IT for the past year. Seems okay to me
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

^ Well it's just that I don't think it is a good lifestyle choice specially health-wise. I despise all kinds of desk jobs and hence my rant. Another thing I have noticed is most of the folks in the ITVTY or corporate sector don't have a social life , for those who have seen life in a cantonment or even a largish PSU for example HAL/BHEL or even places like SBI/LIC/RBI people there live like a close knit family they meet during festivals, functions and have this cultural exchange going on amidst them. We ITVTY types spend more than 8 hours in our cubes out of which hardly 4 hours are actually fruitful rest of the time we just waste talking or in useless meetings , not that former are any better but at least they don't wait late in office and pretend to work after 5/6 PM. I agree some of all this is not by choice but the fact is ITVTY sector on a whole has very unhealthy tone associated with it. In any case in my family everyone signed up for the military as first choice including me so I see that trend to continue.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Sachin »

negi wrote:Another thing I have noticed is most of the folks in the ITVTY or corporate sector don't have a social life , for those who have seen life in a cantonment or even a largish PSU for example HAL/BHEL or even places like SBI/LIC/RBI people there live like a close knit family they meet during festivals, functions and have this cultural exchange going on amidst them.
Good observation. My current place of residence have a large number of non-IT Vity folks. They may be paid much less, but they seem to have the time for themselves. Pretty much every major festival is celeberated, and people do attend these functions in large numbers. Infact it is after seeing this sort of a life that my mind started thinking about a "work life balance" as well as really thinking about the priorities in life (work over time for a possible higher pay scale, or identify a level which gives an optimum pay for optimum work).

IT-Vity per.se I feel is okay, but the current work style seems to be the trouble maker. But to be honest, I dont see much change happening in the work style, or work environment happening any time soon. When I see a few folks (in 38-40 years age) working 12-14 hours a day, I also dont know whether they have fallen in some debt trap, from which they really dont know how to get out.

Mean while at HCL
Labour Department writes to HCL seeking explanation on job delays
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Prem »

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2033598/ ... -alti.html
Tata to acquire French IT services company Alti
[quote][Tata Consultancy Services is to acquire French IT services company Alti in a bid to increase its presence in the European market.India's largest outsourcer said in a filing Tuesday to the Bombay Stock Exchange that it has signed definitive agreements to acquire 100 percent of the equity in privately-held Alti for €75 million (US$97.5 million) in an all-cash transaction.The deal will help it grow in France, regarded as the third largest IT market in Europe after the U.K. and Germany, TCS said in the filing.Alti's key customers include French companies in banking, financial services, luxury, manufacturing and utilities sectors. It has 1,200 employees across France, Belgium and Switzerland, and had revenue of €126 million in 2012. The company is currently owned by its management and two private equity firms.This deal holds promise as it could give TCS access to a new set of customers and staff skills, and enable it to increase local delivery of services in France and Belgium which are important markets for outsourcing, said Sudin Apte, principal analyst and CEO of research and advisory firm Offshore Insights.Indian outsourcers are expanding in Europe, the second largest market for them after North America./quote]
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

Alti sold the company for 60% of annual revenue. Margins must be very poor.
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