Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

tushar_m

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tushar_m » 26 Mar 2013 22:12

Bheeshma wrote:I doubt they would go for a useless chinese style liquid fueled missile.



just watch the launch of SATAN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_%28missile%29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwvNuZLASdE



and then read this article

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/kremlin ... issiles-0/

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 26 Mar 2013 22:22

Why would India need Surya when A-6 with MIRV is already in the works?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 26 Mar 2013 23:10

shiv wrote:
vic wrote:Actually this is old news re circulated to improve image of Saint Anthony for the family. The Saint cut DRDO and OFB budgets to benefit imports is now suddenly realizing value of indigenisation after 9 years of corruption errr Congress Rule. For instance, Rs. 1500 crores are going to improve the production line of imported T-90, but complete silence on Arjuns.



I would take a more worrying view. For 3 to 3 1/2 years each and every government makes money. They cover their tracks towards the end and start no new deals because the next government may screw them. When a new govt comes, they start making deals to make money while doing a witch hunt to screw the previous government who will not get caught because they have done no new deals towards the end and have spent over 1 year covering their tracks.. If a non Congress government comes next year they will simply reverse everything that Congress did and say they were corrupt, but they too will make shit loads of money for 3 years and then cover up for 2 years. Only we the stupid population think that a different party will do something different. Call me out in 5 years if I am wrong.


Bravo Shiv ji Bravo

you are really Dakshina Murthy :wink: (the destroyer of ignorance)

(Dakshina does not mean gartis or Baksheesh, or pay off but the incarination of Guru Shiva)

I humbly offer a small amendment, in coalition Dharma/Drama, if there is likely cabinet shuffle the out going mantri wants to collect quickly all accounts recievables before new cycle of Indoian Ocean a region peace declares new RM/DM and starts his price bids from suppliers, our man Saint Antony will simple say "Yenda Prandyam" (whhat tooo dooo)

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2013 06:57

Siddhu wrote:
Interstingly i find that most of the speculation made long back are found to be true.


Not about Surya. All speculation has been rubbish.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 27 Mar 2013 06:59

sarabpal.s wrote:
Siddhu wrote:ICBM system (Surya)

http://rense.com/general27/threat.htm
Interesting artical 8)

Dear, typical shity article from paknews,
they always trying to create hysteria of Indian missile and look how idoit say "India will get Topol from Russia" trying hide own footprint of chines and NOKO missile paki get.

nothing but Bs


Yes it is a Paki way of trying to say that Hindus fundamentalist India wants to take out the US. Not sure what was interesting in the artical?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby nikhil_p » 27 Mar 2013 12:22

Bheeshma wrote:I doubt they would go for a useless chinese style liquid fueled missile.


And why exactly is a liquid fueled mijjile useless? Please to enlighten this SDRE idiot.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 27 Mar 2013 13:03

It is a common assumption with liquid fuels that the missile will have to be fueled just before the launch. The USSR by developing and producing a number of liquid fueled missiles ought to have removed this assumption. But for some reason, this assumption persists that liquid fueled missiles are unsuitable for ICBMs.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby saje » 27 Mar 2013 13:05

tushar_m wrote: just watch the launch of SATAN[youtube]http://youtu.be/XwvNuZLASdE[/youtube]


A breathtaking & bolti bandh sight indeed! The SATAN is the missile equivalent of the saying "Throwing everything and the kitchen sink". Such a missile is not just a weapon... it's a statement.

Because it's a liquid fuelled missile, everybody and his uncle can see it being fuelled before launch, so they know whats coming and it gives them time to regret and retract. I definitely feel we should have something like this and the most apt name would be 'Kumbhkaran'

We could make this monster & have the base near the Sriharikota launch pad so that we can let off steam once in a while by using it to launch satellites during peacetime.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Pratyush » 27 Mar 2013 13:08

SS 18 once deployed is ready to fire, no need to fuel it jut before the launch. It can be kept ready to launch for years, before it needs servicing.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Mar 2013 14:08

I think the more simple liquid fuels used in V-1's or our early privthvi's were using corrosive Liquid fuels which required fuelling just before launch. With the advent of storeable liquid fuel that is no longer the case.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_20453 » 27 Mar 2013 15:31

rohitvats wrote:
Septimus P. wrote:<SNIP>Each Pinaka Battery has 6 launchers, 3 Replenishment vehicles (with 4*six rocket laucnhing modules per veicle or 12 modules) i.e each battery can launch two salvos of 72 rockets i.e 144 per battery ready to use. Not sure how many batteries per regiment or perhaps they refer to a battery as a regiment not sure.


3 Batteries per regiment for a total of 18 firing units.


Thus we would have 432 (72*2*3) missiles ready for use in a regiment 10-15 regiments would mean 4320 to 6480 missiles ready for use at any moment and with 4 additional reloads we could have an inventory of 17280-25920 missiles. Ideally we could have 15 regiments. All of them upgraded to gps/laser guidance. We could also have new warheads using CL-20, SFW, Thermobaric, Bunker busting in order to make it a truly versatile system etc.

Would be awesome to have similar struture for Prahaar 6 launchers per battery, 6 Replenishment vehicles (with 1*six rocket launching module per vehicle) i.e each battery can launch two salvos of 36 rockets i.e 72 per battery ready to use. 216 missiles per regiment ready for use. 10 to15 Regiments would allow for between 2160 and 3240 missiles ready to fire with 4 reloads we can have a total between 8640 to 12960 missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Siddhu » 27 Mar 2013 22:19

shiv wrote:
Yes it is a Paki way of trying to say that Hindus fundamentalist India wants to take out the US. Not sure what was interesting in the artical?


take out the US part is interesting.Surely such missiles will help .India must have the capability to strike the homeland of any country that may intend to attack .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 27 Mar 2013 22:30

keep the storable container as outer sheath for the corrosive fuel and palce it inner cylinder and the actual real time cylinder like inkjet package
it will be ready all you have to do is pull the burkha and send it accross TSP as escort to the naked 72 waiting in jannat

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby subhamoy.das » 31 Mar 2013 21:54

Watched the latest G.I Joes flick with my son in INOX. For first time, IMO, there was India on the high table of nuke powers along with Isreal and NOKO and the usual P5. I think the Agni-5 must have made the difference. It was a great moment to watch a Indian minister in a Hollywood flick asking for a launch for an Indian ICMB in Hindi and later ordering its self destruction too , and that too in Hindi.....

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 01 Apr 2013 02:52

^^^

Indians/ethnic Indians figure more on American TV, and in movies. The film "Silver Linings Playbook" had an Indian pyschiatrist, Anupam Kher, who did a fine job. But what's still very much missing are highly articulate, complex Indian characters. They tend to be limited to the funny, exotic or simply straightforward, which is what this Indian official on GI Joe sounds like, evidently.

It may take another generation to see many sided, tormented, neurotic, expressive and intelligent all-at-once type Indians, after the fashion of Anglo Saxons, Jews, Italians, Afro-Americans et al. Whether that would be a 'good' thing is probably arguable, but a community shouldn't be pigeon-holed into the exotic/funny category.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 01 Apr 2013 05:46

Siddhu wrote:
shiv wrote:
Yes it is a Paki way of trying to say that Hindus fundamentalist India wants to take out the US. Not sure what was interesting in the artical?


take out the US part is interesting.Surely such missiles will help .India must have the capability to strike the homeland of any country that may intend to attack .

And the intention of the US to attack India occurred to you after reading the Pakistani article? That is what I find interesting.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 01 Apr 2013 06:19

Siddhu wrote:ICBM system (Surya)

http://rense.com/general27/threat.htm
Interesting artical 8)


Interesting, yes.

It is from 2002!!!!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chandanus » 01 Apr 2013 19:35

http://endthelie.com/wp-content/uploads ... system.jpg

The image lists INDIA as S -300 operators ....True or what ???
Last edited by Gerard on 01 Apr 2013 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed inlining

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Apr 2013 19:45

we purchased a couple of the radars in the days before we had the israeli green pine radar thats all.
no missiles were ever purchased.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 02 Apr 2013 01:02

Its a little strange and upsetting to know that India, a nuclear armed state never had any SAM with a higher range then 25 KM.

Officially.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Apr 2013 03:58

What about SA-3 Goas?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 02 Apr 2013 04:08

SA-3 Goa

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 07:13

we never seriously invested in a huge iraqi or russian style SAM system. air defence was left to fighters & ground based radar support only.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 02 Apr 2013 07:48

Singha wrote:we never seriously invested in a huge iraqi or russian style SAM system. air defence was left to fighters & ground based radar support only.

It was slightly unnerving to see how easily these systems were brought down by Electronic Counter Measures and low flying cruise missiles in Iraq, Libya and probably many other places which I'm unaware of, especially with our not-so-friendly neighbor having Barber missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 02 Apr 2013 08:12

In Serbia the simple trick of dropping carbon fibers on HT and LT overhead transmission lines brought everything to halt

That's simple enough
Any anti dote from India I doubt it

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 02 Apr 2013 09:00

pentaiah wrote:In Serbia the simple trick of dropping carbon fibers on HT and LT overhead transmission lines brought everything to halt

That's simple enough
Any anti dote from India I doubt it

Managing without electricity and UPS systems everywhere because power supply in India is like carbon fibre bomb on transformer.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 09:23

I dont think it was any chankian insight into weakness of ground based IADS but just pure lack of money.

the $2b on akash and the $1b (?) on Spyder represents our first significant investment in SAMs ever.
and the IAF is going to follow with the 120km ground based Barak when available later half of this decade for our first area defence bubble. likewise radar coverage incl on the coasts is being tightened up and co-ordination put in place between civil ATC and military ATC.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2013 09:42

Singha wrote:I dont think it was any chankian insight into weakness of ground based IADS but just pure lack of money.


Not lack of insight but the desire to opt for more Fighter Aircraft over building multilayred IADS , Since IAF top bosses are all fighter jocks they are more biased toward purchasing more aircraft over investing similar money to build IADS given a choice and thats the trend in most airforces even that of NATO and USAF.

We would spend $20 Billion in buying Rafale or $35 Billion in buying FGFA would would dread spending similar or half the amount in building IADS as an effective counter to Fighter and other airborne threats and as cost effective alternative against PLAAF/PAF airborne threats.

Kosovo war as shown that a well trained mobile IADS even using 60's equipment could tackle 90's era NATO system even with overwhelming numerical superiority on the latters side with majority of IADS remaining intact even after months of air war according to NATO post war assesment.
Kosovo and the Continuing SEAD Challenge Revisiting the Lessons of Operation Allied Force

Such things though remain trivial when chocolate fighters and pilot rule the Airforces of world , infact very few countries have invested heavily in multilayered IADS with Russia and China leading in that front , while even US and NATO lack those capability as they are dominated and inclined in purchasing fighters.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 10:00

^^ yes they could survive, but thats more like a TSP war goal of "preserving national assets" incl relocating all F-solah to AFB Samugli or further west. the moment IADS to hide and run around they lost the ability to protect the nation or even disrupt anything or support their AF. Serbia AF got chased out of the skies after a few shootdowns on the first night.

after that the country was pounded for 70 days of total air superiority from medium and high alt, incl civil infra like water treatment plants and hospitals to force a surrender and NATO gained all war objectives incl putting milosevic on trial. kosovo was "liberated" into the hands of nato-pasand islamists. 8)

unless a system can fight and play its part in a war its of no use to us. other than the famous F117 shootdown they had nothing on the plate to show.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2013 10:46

There are very few countries in the world that can survive a NATO/US onslaught without having ability to hit deep inside NATO/US heart land with devastating effect and that country is only Russia and to less extent China.

Most countries would end up playing defensively against NATO crushing Numerical Superiority and Technological might that they can bring in and without having ability to hit deep inside NATO heartland even with conventional warhead they can end up only being defensive.

Kosovo war showed that even having 60's AD system and virtually pulverized Airforce in first few days of strike they can still win the war of attrition against an overwhelming superiority just based on tactics and some jugad to those 60's system.

The war damage to NATO is more than F-117 they also includes other war planes , one F-117 got damaged in hit and manage to land but it never flew again.

In our context viz a viz Pakistan and China , having a effective IADS aids in our air superiority to leekers who can get through the fighter net or deploy at places where we cant deploy AWACS/Fighters etc , considering future war will employ cruise missiles and PGM the importance of effective layered IADS will only increase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vasu raya » 02 Apr 2013 10:51

pentaiah wrote:In Serbia the simple trick of dropping carbon fibers on HT and LT overhead transmission lines brought everything to halt

That's simple enough
Any anti dote from India I doubt it


maybe diesel-electric trucks from TATA or Mahindra for all milspec mobile systems and as backup for fixed systems, even 10-12MW gas turbine generators on semi-trucks

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 11:00

inshallah we have enough mobile truck mounted generators in india due to N number of power cuts. very common in function venues, and sometimes rented for offices and apartments as well when on-the-ground systems undergo repair.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 11:02

In our context viz a viz Pakistan and China , having a effective IADS aids in our air superiority to leekers who can get through the fighter net or deploy at places where we cant deploy AWACS/Fighters etc , considering future war will employ cruise missiles and PGM the importance of effective layered IADS will only increase.


^^^fully agree and that is why we are now putting spyder and akash in place , to be followed by barak-NG seeing the increasing DPSA and CM strike power in our two adversaries.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby prabhug » 02 Apr 2013 11:37

for a saturation attack with cruise missiles and pgm,how will a cheap low-level SAM (like tugunska ) , which is mobile will help.I thought a networked ones likes this it scattered around would help defeat subsonic cruise missiles.PGM no clue.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 11:42

radar guided guns of the oerlikon variety will also make short work of PGMs and CMs if sited properly. ofcourse you cannot protect all targets and mainly fighters must deal with the launch a/c but long range CMs and leakers must be dealt with in terminal phase.
python5 / derby / mica-VL are all capable of dealing with CMs a lot of easier, non manouvering targets compared to fighers spewing decoys or trailing decoys.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 02 Apr 2013 12:51

Singha wrote:we purchased a couple of the radars in the days before we had the israeli green pine radar thats all.
no missiles were ever purchased.


Which radars ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 02 Apr 2013 14:34

it has been claimed one of the search radars in the S300 system..there are many models...my guess would tin shield or clam shell as we are talking of mid 1990s here .
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Acquisit ... TocId55304

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 03 Apr 2013 02:47

Officially.[/quote]
NRao wrote:SA-3 Goa


That has a range of around 25Km sab, IIRC it was to take care of low level interceptors that SA-2 couldn't.

However effective ECM can be, a 150KM range mobile battery located on the edges of its radar ranges is not same as a squadron of point defense fighters at a remote airbase.
I remember reading Vivek sab's scenario on how the S300 systems virtually close the Chinese airspace for IAF.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 03 Apr 2013 13:08

Singha wrote:it has been claimed one of the search radars in the S300 system..there are many models...my guess would tin shield or clam shell as we are talking of mid 1990s here .
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Acquisit ... TocId55304


YES.

From various sources I gather that we have the 36D6 or ST 68 NATO Code word "Tinshield" radar. However I have not yet seen it. And of course we have the oldish P 15 and P 19 radars, often seen at some of the air bases

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Apr 2013 13:21

probably junked by now and replaced with newer kit.


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