Indian Roads Thread

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Mar 2013 09:01

Sriman wrote:Within the city the major issue is dealing with the bikers as most of them don't really understand the challenges of driving a bigger vehicle. So you'll see people staying in your blind spots, cutting across quickly, overtaking from the left etc. I've noticed company cab drivers tend to be more disciplined than individual cabbies/tempo travellers, but overall car drivers aren't that big a nuisance.

I agree about the bike riders. They are the biggest threat, especially with bikes becoming more powerful and also affordable.

In Chennai at least, I find the college buses as the rashest of them all. There are hundreds of them roaming the roads from 5:30 AM until 7 or 7:30, driven by very young drivers with gay abandon. I give them way most respectfully. They have even overtaken the notorious MTC drivers in menacing the rest of the road users.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2013 09:48

double the bike cost, and reduce public transportation system and 4 wheeler cost. narrow down the difference for the larger sections. massan regulations did this by restricting certain type of bikes unfit for their interstates. so standardization helps.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 Mar 2013 10:48

Varoon Shekhar wrote:There was a bad accident in Kerala near Thiruvan'm yesterday. 7 young people lost their lives.

This happened in a ghat section. This was a contract carriage/tourist bus which was chartered by a group of college students on their annual excursions. Poor folks they were just about to have their final year exams a couple of weeks from now. The college authorities did not officially allow such a trip. The college students pooled in the money, a couple of relatives of a student was the guardian. The incident happened on a road which was a detour. The original road was under repairs. The bus could not negotiate a curve, toppled out and landed on the same road 70 feet below

. This particular point has 1-2 hair pin bends which needs to be negotiated carefully. Media reports say that the driver was not familiar with this route, and there were no proper signages.

Bade wrote:Maps in hand did not help much as signages are non-existent and hard to negotiate last minute with volume of city traffic

The GPS device from MapMyIndia works quite well in Bangalore. Again the advantage is, it can give some advance notice regarding turns etc. Making last minute corrections in an impatient city like Bangalore is a nightmare

.

Gus wrote:As Sriman said, this needs changes in all the factors - training (from the DL issuing stage), awareness of driving and traffic concepts, strict and fair enforcements, improving infrastructure so drivers will migrate to better driving practices etc

I dont think starting this from the DL issuing stage would help. It needs to start much before. Now we have one grand law the Indian Motor Vehicles Act, which is mainly followed when it comes to vehicles etc. This and the Central and State Motor Vehicle rules have too many provisions on enforcement and fines etc. But to be honest, I dont think 99% of the drivers in India really understand the rules or its requirement. Many people say that these rules are only for inconvenience.

100% literate state has a culture of focusing more on Motor Vehicle petty cases. One thing, this also brings in quite a good revenue to the state. Secondly drunken driving was also on the higher side, and so where the accidents. But does the Aam Admi (the common "intellectual") understand this? No. There have been numerous clashes between people and the police over charging of people mainly for not wearing a helmet when driving a two-wheeler. The last one was at Kozhikode in which lumpen elements burnt down vehicles and blocked the roads. Two yahoos who were not wearing helmets, did not stop when the police tried to stop them sped away only to land up in front of a KSRTC bus. The demands from the people was on the expected lines - "Govt. jobs for the close relative of the dead people". The drunk drivers have their own set of complaints against the police, but being of high "moral calibre" the general society is yet to support the rights of the drunk drivers as well. Police men on the ground are evaluated based on the petty cases booked every day, so they have to be on the road to check the vehicles. There is a clear case of conflict of interests here. And what surprises me is that the 100% literate intellectual crowd is not thinking about forcing their elected governments to cancel such rules/instructions once and for all. If majority of the people dont want to drive without helmets, cancel the appropriate section and stop police from enforcing it as well.

Karnataka on the other hand (out side cities) seems to be totally relaxed on Motor Vehicle law enforcement. Brake lights are a luxury, trucks regularly go over-loaded, and tractor trailers etc. have no visible indication on their bodies that they are out there on the road.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 27 Mar 2013 11:06

The unfortunate accident happened near Munnar. The students were from a college in Trivandrum.

The road is a main road, with lots of bus services. It is no way in bad shape. It is equal in width/alignment to the NH-49 segment that was closed for repairs, which is, like 1.5 lanes total.

The story is that it was the 'cleaner' who was driving, and lost control at the downgrade approaching a hairpin bend. Of course, the story could have been different if there were crash guards on the road. But those things are absent even on the so called NH.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 Mar 2013 11:23

Dileep wrote:The story is that it was the 'cleaner' who was driving, and lost control at the downgrade approaching a hairpin bend. Of course, the story could have been different if there were crash guards on the road. But those things are absent even on the so called NH.

Makes sense then. The 'cleaner' is dead, and the driver is booked for 'culpable homicide not amounting to murder'. BTW, the fact that there were no signages, I figured it out during the various "talk to the witness" scenes which happens in TV news coverage.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 Mar 2013 16:37

I had been to Munnar last year, and did notice lack of signages consistently at sharp turns. It will be difficult on people unfamiliar with the territory to drive with low visibility, which will be the case usually at higher elevations.

This time around drove around Kodungallur area, explored the new bridge across the backwaters from Kodungallur to Mala and back via Vellangallur. The roads are nicely laid with good signages.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 27 Mar 2013 16:57

A kind of defensive driving principle is needed. "The road is clear only as far as you can actually see". You should expect a vehicle, animal, pedestrian, pothole, boulder, cliff edge etc right at the edge of what you can see. I drive with that principle firmly in place.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2013 17:36

All KL public/private/protected drivers needs defensive driving training. BTW, do we have the "right of way" concept begged, borrowed or stolen from anywhere on the planet if we can't originate a home grown one at it?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 27 Mar 2013 17:42

Are you kidding? We sure have the concept of Right of Way firmly ingrained in.

"I have the right of way"

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Mar 2013 17:52

Dileep wrote:"I onlee have the right of way"

apologies for correcting that.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Mar 2013 20:54

Dileep wrote:The road is a main road, with lots of bus services. It is no way in bad shape. It is equal in width/alignment to the NH-49 segment that was closed for repairs, which is, like 1.5 lanes total.

Hmm! I was on this road 3 months back and parts of it were really bad and unrepaired. The real problem I noticed was that the camber of the roads was all incorrect. The crown was often in the center of the road rather than at the drop off side. Also the shoulders often drop off 6 inches or more from the asphalt. It is easy for a top heavy vehicle to overbalance if the smallest mistake is made. A large number of the drivers appeared drunk and were weaving all over the road. We had at least one who deliberately tried to run us off the road because were going too slow in his opinion. The drivers are crazy and drive way faster than they should. In Munnar town itself there are toddy shops all over the place and the drivers congregate every evening. There was even one right next to the awful Saravana Bhavan bang in the heart of town!!

BTW word of warning to NRI types, under no circumstance should you drink regular water in munnar. Don't ask how I know....
------------------------------------

Dileep,

The towns usually install malayalam signage as well. The state signs however are Tamil only sometime english as well.

Who follows signage anyway, if lost stop and ask for directions.....

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Mar 2013 10:55

Dileep wrote:"I have the right of way"

I being an anti-commie and anti-intellectual generally take the highways in KA and TN. In KA the vehicles do flout pretty much every rule in this MV Act. No brake lights, park lights etc. are pretty much the norm. KL on the other hand has more "agressive drivers" especially when they spot a non-KL registration vehicle going ahead. Increased speed, too much horn blaring etc. The impression is that these non-KL vehicles are essentialy tourists who have lost their way, or do not know where they really want to go. Chances of them picking up a fight is also remote, so more macho-giri can be taken out. Don't know the situation in the cow-belt etc. During a road trip to Leh-Ladakh, I found the drivers in that region a bit more understanding. Even when vehicles get stuck on the road, the focus is to get going and clear the way (instead of horn blaring and abusing).

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Mar 2013 11:34

A bit more information on Kerala roads and its development plan
Kerala to lose 670crores for Road Development(Deepika: Malayalam)
Synopsis:
1. Kerala needs to submit the plans and estimates in next 4 days to the GoI for funds allocation. This being the financial year end, only four more days to go.
2. Umman Chandy (current CM) insists that he does not want Toll Collection for these new roads. These roads being two-landed roads, should be/can be built by the State PWD. The Central Govt. should transfer the funds to the State Govt. to execute the work.
3. Central Govt. agreed on the costs for developing 4-5 roads way back in 2012. How ever there is no confirmation on the possible alignment of these roads even now. A project plan has also NOT been submitted for the same.
4. Central Govt. insists that all new National Highways would only be developed on the Built-Operate-Transfer model, and this means tolls would be levied. And Kerala is against paying of tolls. The last government by LDF (commies) had given approvals for the BOT mode {note to self: Point to be highlighted in the next round of intellectual debates with the commies}

.
5. The letter from Central Govt. complained that the Kerala state does not take active interest in the development of National Highways, nor does it complete the formalities on time (to help the Central Govt.). The NHAI had informed the Central Govt that in next two months it plans to withdraw from all activities related to the state.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 28 Mar 2013 15:06

I agree with the CM in this particular case.

All those "NH" are like district roads, with houses on either side on almost the entire stretch. (Those who travelled on KL roads would readily understand. Those who didn't, wouldn't anyway). No way in HELL you can toll those roads by "just re-paving and straightening some bends" as the plan by NHAI was.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Mar 2013 16:57

Dileep wrote:I agree with the CM in this particular case.
......
All those "NH" are like district roads, with houses on either side on almost the entire stretch. .

In that case is there a way to declassify a particular stretch of National Highway? Say make it a state highway, the state takes the responsibility of its maintenance and NHAI can take a hike. But not very happy with the proposal of Cent. Govt. giving the money, while the State Govt. does the work. You really cannot say where the money would go

. Because it is taking money from some one, with no responsibility to show as to how it would get spent.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2013 18:33

I was nearly head-on with a biker yahoo and his back seat buddy yesterday evening. place was a 90' turning near sarjapur road. on both sides of the turning, very steep new humps had been put in - the usual blr soln to any problem.
so I take the turn from one end, and a truck from the other..both slowly.

as I approach the 2nd hump to complete the turn and nearly parallel with the truck from opp direction, this biker blindly speeds from behind the truck to overtake in the turn - first he sees my car and brakes....then oops he sees the huge invisible and unmarked hump even closer and brakes harder..too hard...his front wheel locks up and his back side slides until he ends up facing the way he came with the back seat guy shitting bricks.

I gave them a cheerful wave of the fist and they moved along.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 29 Mar 2013 07:23

Sachin wrote: You really cannot say where the money would go . Because it is taking money from some one, with no responsibility to show as to how it would get spent.

I CAN. The money will be gleefully wasted.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 Mar 2013 12:16

Dileep wrote:I CAN. The money will be gleefully wasted.

In that case NHAI or Cent. Govt. should not put in more funds. Kerala is a state where a Malaysia based contractor committed suicide, because he could not get his revenues on time. The work was complete, the road was excellent. But the ruling govt. withheld the orders to release the money to the Malaysian company, because the company did not source the raw materials from certain local agencies

. The current ministry propped up by minority religious parties do have enough of shady ministers who can eat up this money by joining hands with shady contractors.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Mar 2013 04:47

The truth about NH roads in Kerala.
Land acquisition hits NH projects in Bengal, Kerala

NEW DELHI: Kerala and West Bengal, where land acquisition for road widening is a major impediment for highway expansion, are feeling the heat of the National Highways Authority of India (NHAI), which is threatening to abandon projects. The fear stems from the fact that the Authority has already abandoned two projects in Goa on similar ground. {So Kerala is not the only holdout.}

"We are facing the worst situation in Kerala and West Bengal. In Kerala, the cost of land acquisition is very high and unviable," said a senior NHAI official. In Bengal, there is a major problem in disbursement of compensation for land acquisition.

An official cited a project in Kerala, where the cost of land acquisition would be 40% higher than the total project cost. Sources said that the Authority has asked the Kerala government to rationalize the land acquisition cost else the project could never take off.

....

Concessionaires are disinterested in highway projects since the general public are apathetic to paying toll charges. Highways minister C P Joshi raised this issue when he met Kerala CM Oomen Chandy recently here.

NHAI has written a letter to road transport and highways ministry urging it to push state governments to sign the State Support Agreement (SSA) for smoother execution of projects, and failing so it would pull out.

SSA is an umbrella promise from states to cooperate and facilitate road projects, including allowing concessionaires to collect toll. Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat and Tamil Nadu, however, have still not signed the agreement. {Toll avoiders include other states now !}
Sources said while progress of work is better in Gujarat, highway projects are on slow lane in the other two states.

Haryana, Rajasthan, Bihar, Andhra Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Jammu & Kashmir are all performing well, and Odisha also isn't not too far behind.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Mar 2013 05:25

Dileep wrote: No way in HELL you can toll those roads by "just re-paving and straightening some bends" as the plan by NHAI was.

perhaps increase their property tax then? want service and infrastructure, pay for it! or take a vote on these houses, then decide if they really wanted it. if they vote is yes, then they are committed. At least, KL can start policy based governance and voting system... as they have near cent percent literacy.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 30 Mar 2013 05:35

The crux is cost and availability of land, for a greenfield NH project in states like KL and Goa.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Mar 2013 06:16

originally, all these land were poramboku right?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 30 Mar 2013 06:57

SaiK wrote:originally, all these land were poramboku right?

No. Originally, all these lands were 'janmam' for the Namb manas. Later some became 'devasvam', and some became 'kaaNam' for nair families. The poramboke you see today are lands that went to the crown either by abandonment or by take-over.

The problems with land acquisition here are:

1. The ridiculously low value given by the govt compared to what you can get by selling to an individual.

2. The delay and hassle of running from pillar to post (and having to pay a significant % as bribe) to get the amount.

3. The impact of having to lose much of your owned land. See, all the lands are divided into tiny fragments, so you stand to lose, like half of your land and your house. You honestly LOSE YOUR SHIRT in the process.

Imagine you living in a house (that you built with your blood and sweat) in a 10 cents land next to the main road (far away from the city), with the gate opening to the road. You could easily get Rs 30 lakh for the land. The govt will pay (don't laugh now) Rs 3 lakh for the whole thing.

1. AFTER they kick you out.
2. AFTER months (or years) wait
3. AFTER paying upto 10% bribe to the babu who is supposed to 'sanction it'.

What would you do? Where would you go? You can't buy a slum dwelling with the proceeds. So, you collect all your political might and oppose the land acquisition.

That is what happening here.

Now, the concept of negotiated settlement has started happening. If your papers are in order, you get a check for 80% of the value. But this happens only at the city region. The rural regions are still on the old process.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Mar 2013 08:24

How about collecting all the people's might and execute the task. Hell, start a protected form of governance, and then create a kingdom within the kingdom. Say, a million people are affected, and find out how much money can be collected. find sponsors, private industries, firang donors, etc.. million people can't be chased by a truck full of cops nor a big army. if they do, then India will be brandished, and topiwalas and pastawalis will dance for you rather, oppose you. Get the projects executed by people's movement. Heck, that would be final justice. If people appointed gov is not functioning, then people have to resort to different ways. it is people power, and that should not be overruled.. which is a better approach than obstruction route and stupid politics, where everyone suffers.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Mar 2013 11:22

SaiK wrote:Get the projects executed by people's movement. Heck, that would be final justice. If people appointed gov is not functioning, then people have to resort to different ways. it is people power, and that should not be overruled.. which is a better approach than obstruction route and stupid politics, where everyone suffers.

This has worked in Kerala. The CIAL is actually a kind of cooperative venture, where very many people pooled their money and built an airport. This was when the Central Govt. repeatedly said they did not have funds to build an airport. And I feel CIAL is doing quite well. They even had plans to build a Railway Station right next to the airport, but I guess Railways played spoil-sport.

But when it comes to road building (or laying of new tracks) this sort of unity is hard to get. But I do feel that a kind of referendum is required here. If Kerala people do NOT want a four-lane tolled highway, the governments (state and central govt.s) should just leave it there and move on. If Kerala people do not want a new railway track to be built, then Indian Railways should just leave it and go ahead. But when the intellectual brigade of 100% literate state asks for more trains, point out to them clearly that no new tracks, no new trains. A trend I see that Kerala is going the Kashmir way. Give me all the money I want, but don't ask how I plan to spend it. NHAI is expected to put money in a project where it does not have much say. In which world would this really work?

habal · Post by **habal** » 30 Mar 2013 15:21

bureaucrats & politicians in Kerala are non-effective and numb nuts. They may be able to sell something to their masses but they can't communicate effectively with center who mostly speak & think in Hindi. We need more people like Tharoor who can communicate. He is the best thing to have happened to Kerala wrt Centre. Atleast he can communicate in some decent language. Look at Antony open his mouth to speak english, to be honest I have never understood a single word of what he utters .. ever. The less said about those CPI(M) metric appeared but fail; tobacco rolling MPs, the better.

Waited for ages to finish the rail track doubling on the mulanthuruthy-chengannur route. When is that cursed line ever going to resemble something civilized. Why do commuter/express/shatabdi trains have to wait every 10 kms for even a goods train to pass.Why is no joker in Kerala's state administration ever able to tackle this reasonably simple issue.

Is land acquisition such a problem ? Or is the South Central railway cuties at Salem and Chennai HQ not deploying funds for any Kerala related projects. What a shame !

Next step is electrification of Shornur-tirur-Kozhikode rail line, why is that being kept on the warmer for so long. It beats me when some boondocks in MP or Bihar can get electrified tracks and all the jazz, why such a highly mobile state with a very law-abiding, toll-paying, ticket-holding public is being put through so much hardship.

Maybe the state is too law-abiding.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Mar 2013 16:15

habal wrote:

Next step is electrification of Shornur-tirur-Kozhikode rail line, why is that being kept on the warmer for so long. It beats me when some boondocks in MP or Bihar can get electrified tracks and all the jazz, why such a highly mobile state with a very law-abiding, toll-paying, ticket-holding public is being put through so much hardship.

Maybe the state is too law-abiding.

It has nothing to do with Law abiding citizens from Kerala or Boondocks in MP or Bihar and more to do with exploitation of mineral resources in the area and its extraction to law abiding states by paying meagre royalty and movement of industrial good in and out of those areas.

Also compare freight traffic.

Just check the mineral and industrial resource base of India from British times and correlate with Rail network.
Kerala has limited goodies to offer except Commie ideology which can come by passenger trains.

habal · Post by **habal** » 30 Mar 2013 16:47

and there seem to be a rail line and a train to every small one-horse town in TN. What seems to be the mineral resource that is being exploited from there. The gentlemen at South Central Railway are nothing but a bunch of chauvinistic, spiteful, arrogant, excuses who seem to take a sadistic delight from preventing deployment of railway funds to a neighbouring state. Kindly do not forget that Kerala Rare Earths and Minerals have been exporting Illuminite, Monozite, Sillimanite and various others from the beaches around Quilon to Tvm.

It's not the state's fault that the country doesn't have a Chip making or electronic industry to speak of. Nor a successful airplane engineering or manufacturing industries which could use products like Titanium etc. All these minerals are thus exported abroad to those who may be more capable and know how to make good use of it.

These resources are being exploited by Govt of India for mere royalty and payback is in form of peanuts and the South Central Railway division HQ being shifted to Salem. And Southern Railway being HQed in Chennai, of all places, whose sole objective is to stall any project in Kerala.

Even if new projects are announced in the rail budget, they are never implemented or left incomplete because the funds need to be deployed from Chennai/Salem, which never happen. There have been projects lying unimplemented, for lack of funds allocated, from past 30 years.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 Mar 2013 17:43

habal wrote:and there seem to be a rail line and a train to every small one-horse town in TN. What seems to be the mineral resource that is being exploited from there. The gentlemen at South Central Railway are nothing but a bunch of chauvinistic, spiteful, arrogant, excuses who seem to take a sadistic delight from preventing deployment of railway funds to a neighbouring state. Kindly do not forget that Kerala Rare Earths and Minerals have been exporting Illuminite, Monozite, Sillimanite and various others from the beaches around Quilon to Tvm.

It's not the state's fault that the country doesn't have a Chip making or electronic industry to speak of. Nor a successful airplane engineering or manufacturing industries which could use products like Titanium etc. All these minerals are thus exported abroad to those who may be more capable and know how to make good use of it.

These resources are being exploited by Govt of India for mere royalty and payback is in form of peanuts and the South Central Railway division HQ being shifted to Salem. And Southern Railway being HQed in Chennai, of all places, whose sole objective is to stall any project in Kerala.

Even if new projects are announced in the rail budget, they are never implemented or left incomplete because the funds need to be deployed from Chennai/Salem, which never happen. There have been projects lying unimplemented, for lack of funds allocated, from past 30 years.

Tamilnadu does not have proper connectivity even now. Till recently it had multiple gauges . BG conversion is still an ongoing project and slowly major towns in South Tamilnadu is getting connected. Connectivity from North is mainly up to Chennai. Of late many trains have been extended upto Cochin Alleppy etc. Coimbatore, Salem Trichy have trains connecting North few and far between.

However goods traffic is not much.

For exporting Rare Earth Minerals from Quilon to TVM you dont need a big Rail project. See the freight traffic trends and which zone have high through put. Picture will become clear.

Kerala has difficult terrain and difficult to build rail line at lesser cost for little benefit. KL state can foot the bill perhaps for betterment of its residents. There is no point in blaming Tamilnadu and North .

If you ever happen to visit Railway HQ, dont forget to visit Program Appraisal Unit. It is known as Project Hibernation Cell or graveyard of rail projects. Tens of thousands of Rail projects find their final resting place for want of many reasons: financial, administrative or political.

dinakar · Post by **dinakar** » 30 Mar 2013 19:33

habal wrote:and there seem to be a rail line and a train to every small one-horse town in TN. What seems to be the mineral resource that is being exploited from there. The gentlemen at South Central Railway are nothing but a bunch of chauvinistic, spiteful, arrogant, excuses who seem to take a sadistic delight from preventing deployment of railway funds to a neighbouring state.

Ya the people in SCR are all really sadistic...

haballji, it is not SCR rather it is SR and most of the KL areas comes under PGT division.. But you are right all the people sitting in MAS HQ from IRTS, IRAS and IRPS are from a particular state and language people, even people sitting in Railway board are from this group only. That's why things like these are happening.

habal · Post by **habal** » 30 Mar 2013 19:41

I used to know some mallus sitting in the railway board, but those seem to be only good at going to hometown in some special contraption of ac first class or ac lounge compartment. This thing stays at the station till the genuis has to roll back to work. Rest of the time, in their jobs, it seems they are deadly silent, avoid all kind of controversy, just content and chuffed to be on the gravy train. These are the specimens that come from the state.

In the end any railways minister appointed from Kerala sits below some Bihari or Bengali and most of the times can't even communicate effectively, mostly the interaction is in monosyllables with none the wiser after it. (think AK Antony speaking in english .. this is just slightly worse)

I don't see any light on the horizon.

dinakar · Post by **dinakar** » 30 Mar 2013 20:00

habal wrote: I don't see any light on the horizon.

I don't know why you are thinking like that.. Have you ever thought why most of the express train stops in many stations in KL.. When you place the priority in different area then no one can help...

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 30 Mar 2013 20:26

So it seems Kerala has the same problem as WB. It is likely due to percolation of Commie ideology which is why like Mallus, Bongs are leaving the state.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Mar 2013 08:58

wait for BARC's AHWR get mature and go critical using 80% Th... and see how KL beach sands are getting exported to other states. need good roads at the very least.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Mar 2013 11:41

SaiK wrote:wait for BARC's AHWR get mature and go critical using 80% Th... and see how KL beach sands are getting exported to other states. need good roads at the very least.

Well if need is created , it would be done. We would exploit monazite ilmenite and rutile to our hearts content by building rail and road network and carry all your sands at one paise/tonne royalty.

but BARC is keepnig us waiting forever

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2013 18:43

The ideology bizness that is dropped at every instant of any discussion in BR is getting boring and repetitive. There is a nice picture of treatment for workers building the Bluru metro in the Indian express. Will put PRC to shame. SO much for non-commie sympathizers and their hypocrisy.

habal · Post by **habal** » 31 Mar 2013 20:11

Well, right now it's not commies but Congress+allies who rule Kerala, yet there is no concession given to the state by the political managers in neighbouring states, on any front, including our favorite neighbor to the east. So accusations of exporting commie-ideology is but a phony strawman masking the real reason, which is infact a naked fight for resources. And in this fight, it does not help to be meek.

There may be very elaborate laws and framework and criteria but it's very narrow-minded men who implement that criteria. If you have to get them to do stuff, it pays to be able to arm-twist them and it pays to be in a position where they submit to your demands. They are not going to do anything voluntarily. That's not the way India works.

We had the best opportunity with UDF at state and UPA at centre, yet there is neglible gain and there is Madras HQ to contend with at every step who will put roadblocks all along. And we don't have a personality anywhere large enough to steamroll such irritants. Thus there is no light at the end of the horizon. A Modi-led NDA with Gujratis and North Indians in main positions of power play is going to be a zero-growth period for 'commie-exporting state like Kerala'. There was a point of time when the gulf-expat provided bulk of the forex reserves for India, yet there is a derision today at providing just passengers rather than precious freight commodity. But past trend shows to expect nothing better from the usual quarters.

So our best opportunities have been frittered away, there is no railway wagon factory at Palakkad still, which was a bare-minimum. If you have seen the coaches in Kerala trains, they are pathetic run down, hand-me-downs, peeling paint, creaky wagons from Southern Railways headquartered you know where.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Mar 2013 22:51

Roads are easier to privitize than railways in desh. We don't want too much gov playing on the road ways. BOT is at least there to capitalize, but gov machinery is corrupt and spoils and swallows big monies from big projects from contractors and seekers. How to eliminate corruption from larger sections of the society, is by ensuring standardized infrastructure from building, maintenance and use. standardized blocks, pillars, bridges, lanes, sign boards, size, construction quality, etc. wherever possible do it. roads can be easily be based on lego technology. faster on the longer run. note that standardization may not eliminate corruption, but at least it would help us establish what minimum quality we want from roads are required to have. when I mean standards, it is not on paper but actually implemented, operational and has usage metrics.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Apr 2013 11:44

dinakar wrote:Have you ever thought why most of the express train stops in many stations in KL..

This is after intense political pressure. And there are multiple reasons for the same. Kerala really does not have a concept of big cities (where people all huddle up) and unused hinterland. The population is high, and it is spread across the state. So at every RS there would be people who have to get down/board a train. So they bug the local politicians and these fellows to keep their winning chances intact would coerce the Railways to stop the train. This goes on and on, and in a few years time an express train becomes a glorified commuter train (classic example is the Kanyakumari->Bangalore Express @ Island Exp.)

How ever the bad effect of this is that these express trains as become a refuge for the local commuters. This becomes a problem for genuine reserved ticket holders. The politicians does not have the wherewithal to ask for more MEMU/DEMU/local trains. The railways would just ask them to get lost! And since there are not enough local trains, the local commuters pretty much poach into every express/mail train. A bit of goonda-giri (local folks, and in sizeable numbers) allows them to board every reserved coach.

E. Sreedharan made a recent remark. I would try to get a link for the same. Instead of hollering about coach factories etc. for the state, Kerala and its people should demand more local commuter trains.

habal wrote:And we don't have a personality anywhere large enough to steamroll such irritants.

We had such leaders, but they are no more. The current crop in both Congress and Commie gangs are pretty much inept in any leadership quality. They may win in their local constituency, but that is it. The commie leaders are pretty much a slightly glorified form of street thugs, whose thuggery just does not go beyond the borders of Kerala

. The talks of Che Guevera, Karl Marx, Mahdani etc. is all reserved for their street level thuggery and facebook gimmics.

For a state which boasts about 100% literacy, and a high rating in very many global indexes I am finding a group of people who really dont know how to prioritise things and view things on a more long term basis. We see very many complaints on every thing be it roads or rails. But if 100% literacy is a mark of intelligence* , then the same group can also think about solutions? I dont see it happening. Today Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is implementing a very strong labour reform (more jobs for local Saudis). The demand in Kerala, is pretty much that GoK and GoI should bulldoze KSA to revoke these laws. I am yet to see these folks having any other option to say make the state less dependent on KSA.

* I remember my days in college where this 100% literacy claim was repeated ad-nauseum. Every other group of Indian citizens were classified as inferior, they had their own nickames (Gosais was for the Gujaratis). Tamils were repeatedly marked as dumbo farm hands, who could be easily emotionaly tricked. Reading bus boards in Malayalam or English, was taken as the bench mark for intelligence. The commies went on blabbering about religious fanaticism would not take roots in Kerala, because of the 100% literacy. The morons now keep quiet after the state showed clear indications of Islamic fundamentalism taking roots in Kerala.

Sorry for the long OT post. Let us get back to Roads..

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 01 Apr 2013 14:05

habal wrote:We had the best opportunity with UDF at state and UPA at centre, yet there is neglible gain and there is Madras HQ to contend with at every step who will put roadblocks all along. And we don't have a personality anywhere large enough to steamroll such irritants. Thus there is no light at the end of the horizon....

So our best opportunities have been frittered away, there is no railway wagon factory at Palakkad still, which was a bare-minimum. If you have seen the coaches in Kerala trains, they are pathetic run down, hand-me-downs, peeling paint, creaky wagons from Southern Railways headquartered you know where.

I think the feeling is mutual, here is an excerpt from a Tamil newspaper (in Tamil),
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/262/ ... 022013.jpg

They are saying TN should be united like Kerala, where they seem to wring out concessions from the Railway ministry on every budget