Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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krisna
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by krisna »

Sanku wrote:
Shah has one big flaw that has hindered his rise and could do so in future: He has a habit of remaining incommunicado for long periods. This, in turn, keeps him disconnected at crucial times and ends up inflaming even his friends.
Interesting. Why? Tantra? Pow-wow with like minded people behind the scenes?
This is never the case with the termite matriarch and her brood.
They still remain ever popular with many including here.
Prem
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem »

Ghaghri Sambal Maama, Ghaghri Sambal oye
Chupp Gya Laal Tera, Dekh Modi Jammal Oye!
Rise of Sardar Modi , Pulling out PSims From Bodhi. To avoid Gali,Goli, and Guilotine : Gita Now Psers ka new Pita.
Seriously, Will India enter a new just era with this upcoming election?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

MediaCrooks ‏@mediacrooks 7h
I cracked one part of it.. Read first para.. This is where RaGa's rivers and energy thing came from .. LOL! http://unu.edu/publications/articles/ex ... verse.html … #PappuCII

http://unu.edu/publications/articles/ex ... verse.html
Energy is a fundamental necessity for life, let alone a vigorous society or civilization. This fact has been recognized by humans for a very long time — Sun, Wind, Fire and Water (in the form of rivers and waterfalls and rain), worshipped by most cultures, are manifestations of energy in one form or the other. The main difference between pre-industrial times and the present day is that we have restricted our worship only to Fire, neglecting the others almost entirely. Why this became the case, and as humanity again pays due attention to the other Gods again, what entities must again return into our moral equations, is what this essay tries to describe.

MediaCrooks ‏@mediacrooks 3h
@Sshankara Hahaha.. I dont intend writing about his stupid speech..else every part of it can be tracked down to some original work somewhere


Beehive

MediaCrooks ‏@mediacrooks 6h
Heres where RaGa's Beehive stuff came from... #PappuCII .. http://189141625470987131.weebly.com/
Mrs. Dillie's First Grade Class :rotfl:
Open the door...

'Sometimes looking into a classroom is a bit like looking into a beehive. The uninformed visitor might see lots of bees moving in many directions with no apparent logic, but the beekeeper knows what each bee is doing and how the activity fits within the overall pattern.' Author Unknown

This 'beekeeper' hopes you enjoy peeking into our busy bee lives. Beth Dillie
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

No guy on a horse is coming to fix all our problems: Rahul Gandhi



Is Rahul calling Modi out as Kalki Avatar? :lol:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/india- ... inc/270504

I pity this guy. He doesn't want to go thru unnecessary public debate and elections. He just want to enjoy the family inheritance and people dont let him :(( this is not the India his great grand father discovered :(( :((
Sushupti
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Surprisingly highly unbiased program from NDTV
Brand Modi vs Brand Rahul: India votes on speeches

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... o-featured
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Image

Rahul Gandhi takes CII vice-president Ajay Shriram’s hand to demonstrate China’s power “that can make you feel the pain”. (Above) He puts his arm around Shriram in a hug that shows how India exercises its “soft power”. Pictures by Rajesh Kumar

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130405/j ... V4WN6K7IR0
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

More media spon, deception, hallucination or something actually going on on this front? Knowing NM, he wouldnb't take such steps w/0 first gaming out the possibilities...
Narendra Modi voices his PM ambition, says it's time to repay India's debt

So saying its time to repay India's debt == wanting to be PM?
On a day when Congress scion unveiled his visions before the industry, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi let out one more signal of his national ambition saying that he is obligated to "repay the debt of the nation."

Modi was addressing a book release function at Gandhinagar. The author of the book, an industrialist from Odisha R.P. Gupta while addressing the gathering, earlier, had suggested that Narendra Modi after paying up the debt of Gujarat should now repay the debt of the country.

Modi in his address while underlined the changes brought about in governance in the state and their positive ramifications, said "Guptaji said that Modiji has paid the debt of Gujarat and now should repay the debt of the nation. I don't understand what he was saying," Modi said with a smile.

"There is no child in this country, who is not indebted to the country," Modi said adding that the debt of the country is not only upon Narendra Modi but on every one.

"Bharat Ma ka karz sirf Modi par nahi hum sab ka upar hain," Modi said, "And all of us should use all the opportunity to pay back the debt to the country. A teacher pay back his debt to the country or a doctor pays back the debt by saving the life of a child. So this becomes all of our responsibility to ensure that we repay the debt to our country so that Mother India blesses us so that we do not leave any debt behind," he added.

However, Modi's statement is widely being read as an indication to his rising national ambition, coming particularly on a day when Congress scion addressed the industry first time after becoming the vice president of the Congress.

While this is not for the first time that Modi had indicated his ambition for the top job, this assumes significance coming on the heels of his induction into the Parliamentary Committee of his party recently.
And so on and on...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Kakkaji »

So, in essence, this is what Rahul Gandhi said at the CII:

"India is a complex country. It is not easy to solve problems here (That is why we have not even attempted to solve any problems over the last 9 years). Therefore, don't expect one man (Narendra Modi) to come and solve India's problems.

Given the complexity, we are doing what we can. In fact this is the best you can, and should, expect. So, consider yourself lucky that you have people like us at the top who feel for the poor and wish for inclusive growth. Therefore, continue to vote for us. Let the country continue to muddle along. You work hard, ungrudgingly, to make honey (which my family has the right to control, collect, and eat)."

And some in the media and business are still going ga-ga over this? :roll:
Last edited by Kakkaji on 05 Apr 2013 06:40, edited 1 time in total.
Kakkaji
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Kakkaji »

Hari Seldon wrote:More media spon, deception, hallucination or something actually going on on this front? Knowing NM, he wouldnb't take such steps w/0 first gaming out the possibilities...
Narendra Modi voices his PM ambition, says it's time to repay India's debt

So saying its time to repay India's debt == wanting to be PM?
I also want to repay my debt to Mother India. Doesn't mean I want to be PM.

The paid media spins everything that Modi says, into a negative.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

@mediacrooks: Dear @Timesnow Forget US visa for NaMo .. Any reason why Rahul Gandhi doesnt DARE to visit the US??
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kmkraoind »

Indeed Rahul's analogy of beehive is perfect, we have one Queen bee, millions of slaves and honey moved to Swiss stores.
Last edited by kmkraoind on 05 Apr 2013 09:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

RajeshA wrote:OT,
RamaY wrote:He says India has the capability not only take all Indians along but entire world. I loved his point that the "Idea of India" is NOTwhat we hear in "Idea of USA". It is what told by Gandhi/Buddha (he need to go a little back, but it is ok) as in Bhagavad Gita.
Gandhi and Buddha are acceptable in the Macaulayite frame, and in fact the West has tried to digest both. Mahabharata/Bhagavad Gita are totally different things altogether and cannot be digested.
And the reason why Gandhi & Buddha are acceptable because their breed can be controlled & muzzled & dictated. Both coteries have been infested heavily by defenders of western interests, hence, perfectly acceptable. BG or MB, however, throws open a completely different can of worms, that the macualayites can't digest.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Rudradev »

Kmkraoind, excellent point.

ALL WHO TWEET, PLEASE PUT THIS IN THE TWITTERSPHERE:

If Rahul Gandhi's India is a Beehive, Who Are the Beekeepers?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kittoo »

Chandragupta wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Chandragupta, if she is not the type to vote, dont waste your time.
I hope to first convert her & then scare her into voting. Let's see how it works. Typical DU studied, MBA types, high flying yuppie with a large yuppy group. Like a wolf, I'm eyeing her entire yuppy group for conversion. :evil:
This reminds me. Some of the members here might recall that I wrote once that a friend of mine once said that she doesnt care which religion she belongs to and she wont mind converting to Islam if the push came for some reason (it was in response to me wondering about the push Hindus will face with their declining population). She too was just like what you describe. Typical metro girl, CBSE/ISCE studied, doesn't care about Hinduism and why it matters, secularism is good, BJP is communal and is bad etc.
I am glad to report that after long discussions and debates, she is now a fierce Hindu and a huge modi fan. She is probably even more fierce than me in this regard. She has started liking her roots again, now reads Gita, can see the pseudo-secularism of congress easily and has started talking to others about this too (basically she has also become a foot-soldier like us).
Just wanted to give this example to say that it's possible and important that we engage these people and not leave them as it is, thinking that there is no hope. :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sri »

For me the take away is thus:

1) Rahul says, the system is broken and we need to change it, NM says the system is alright, it can deliver it needs leadership.

Interestingly Rahul is part of system and NM a rank outsider.

2) NM strategy is working. He is forcing Rahul to play on his pitch. Strategically NM is one up.

3) It is clear Rahul will not be PM.

4) PC and others in congress will be glad now that the Yuvraj has exposed himself as out of touch and inexperienced, they can now go on to chart their own strategies. May be someone within INC pushed Rahul to expose himself like that.

5) Did INC know that this was coming? First Digvijay Singh announces Rahul as PM candidate, then the announcement of speech and before speech Janardhan Divedi announced the current Sonia - Manmohan system is best for country and can be seen as something desirable in the future. Were they hedging?

6) Now spotlight is on NM. Top job is almost open for him with no other serious contender. Can his party now deliver the goods?

7) I predict change in behavior now from regional parties. Hindutva will be acceptable. 2002 riots bandwagon will continue as a hedge.

8) NM shouldn't shy away from KA. Rahul has now given him and BJP some shoulder room. If fought hard against odds in true NM style and somehow KA is retained it will be a massive game changer.

9) Deliver the other 3 states, MP, RAJ and Delhi. The sultanate will be well and truly surrounded.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^^Bravo. Congratulations. My friend over the messenger/work friend is from the middle-class background (regular), but an English-speaking metro-dweller nonetheless. She was patriotic to begin with, but was traditionally (family wise) a congress voter. I am happy to report that she is just as much a patriot/right wing Hindu as me now, so much so to the point that she has frequent arguments with her educated/former IAF elder brother (go figure) who is a brainwashed congi supporter. I get her to bombard him with articles and reports. Even if he is not cleansed of his congi love, at least he wont be going around yaking about it with impunity. But at least one soul saved from the pits of hell.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

kittoo wrote:I am glad to report that after long discussions and debates, she is now a fierce Hindu and a huge modi fan. She is probably even more fierce than me in this regard. She has started liking her roots again, now reads Gita, can see the pseudo-secularism of congress easily and has started talking to others about this too (basically she has also become a foot-soldier like us).

Just wanted to give this example to say that it's possible and important that we engage these people and not leave them as it is, thinking that there is no hope. :)
kittoo ji,

Bravo!

While I talked about various political-ideological platforms in India
  • Bharatiya Nationalism
  • Jatiism
  • Islamo-Christianism aka Nehruvian Secularism
  • Cultural Marxism
  • Macaulayism
  • Yuppieism
among Macaulayists and Yuppies the majority of the followers-on can be converted. Macaulayites can be converted through education and Yuppies through Modiconomics.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

Rajesh Ji,

Of the political idealogical streams mentioned by you. At the core, most are nationalists at heart, with the possible exception of Islamo-Christianism aka Nehruvian Secularism. But are not aware of it. A little bit of effort goes a long way in converting them.

The struggle lies in reaching them and making them aware. The mass media is the biggest hindrance in terms of reaching them. But they have to be reached individually.

The evidence is the rise of the Internet Hindus. They may not be aware of the BRF but are doing a good job none the less. The small town was always loyal. Just its voice was not heard by the MSM. But internet / SM is the great leveler. Which explains the discomfort of the MSM and the current establishment with it.

Even in my office I see INC loyalists every day. Some cannot be saved. But over the last 3 years I have converted most of them usually with one liners. That are so blunt & sarcastic that even the most die hard INC supporters are unable to defend the INC.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Rahul Gandhi comes across as ill-prepared & uninterested in the country’s top job
In the nine years he has been in politics, Rahul Gandhi was not known for answering questions. Hence, it came as a surprise that he agreed to a Q&A session at the end of his opening speech at the CII meet on Thursday. However, he did not answer either of the two questions posed to him — one on poor Centre-state relations and the other on India's water crisis. Additionally, he left another big question hanging, long after his departure from the venue. Why did Rahul Gandhi, the newly appointed Congress vice-president, choose a business forum for his coming-out speech? If his intent was limited to reiterating well-known Congress positions on 'inclusive growth' and repeating his India-Bharat cliche, with the middle class thrown in for good measure, he only needed to revisit one of his past speeches.

But to give him his due, Rahul Gandhi is a more confident public speaker now. He has developed a technique of stringing together anecdotes. But does this befit a potential prime minister, especially at a time when the Indian economy is facing its biggest crisis since 1990-91? Neither did he offer concrete ideas or solutions to tackle the slowdown nor an alternative vision for governance.

Rahul sent out the message that he was not interested in addressing the problems at hand. He had one stock answer for all questions: Structural change in India's political system. For him, the panacea to all problems is 'giving people a voice'.

While empowering the socio-economically marginalised is vital, repeating that one phrase ad nauseum does little to address the issue, particularly since Congress has been in power for the past nine years. It was astounding to know that Rahul Gandhi thinks one of the biggest problems facing India is that we suffer from a feudal mindset, because we think one person (perhaps he was referring to himself and also taking a swipe at Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi) would solve all the problems.

So, what are we to think of Rahul Gandhi if not as someone who is going to solve India's problems? That he is a political activist whose mission is to help the voiceless get a voice? It may all sound very well-intentioned, but there is no getting away from the fact that he remains Congress face for the 2014 general elections. Given that this is not going to change, he came across as ill-prepared and uninterested in the top job.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by johneeG »

kmkraoind wrote:Indeed Rahul's analogy of beehive is perfect, we have one Queen bee, millions of slaves and honey moved to Swiss stores.
Deyam bhojyadhanam dhanam sukruthirbhino sanchayah tasya vai
srikarnasya baleh cha vikramapatheh api kirthih sthitha |
asmakam madhu-dhana-bhoga-rahitam natham chirath sanchitam
nirvanaditi naijapaadayugalam dharshyanti aho makshikaah ||

The meritorious should give away in charity all that they have in excess of their needs. By charity only Karna, Bali and King Vikramaditya are popular even today. Just see the plight of the honeybees beating their legs in despair upon the earth. They are saying to themselves, "Alas! We neither enjoyed our stored-up honey nor gave it in charity, and now King has taken it from us in an instant."
(Chanakya Niti: Chapter 11, Shloka 18)

Tana anubhavimpan arthamu
manavapati jeru gonta mari
bhugatamau ganalan igalu gurcina
teniya yoru jerunatlu tiramuga Sumati!

Sumati(good-minded person), it is certain that money which is not spent will partly go to the king and that which is hidden in forests(or other secretive places) will be lost in the earth. This is like the honey-bees gathering honey in a forest and storing it in a hive. But the bees don't drink it; others will enjoy it.

Money must be spent for your comforts; or it may be given away to others. But wealth accumulated may end up with the government or under the earth(i.e. lost).
(Sumathi Shatakam, verse 58)

dhanamu kudabetti dharmambu seyaka
tanu tinaka lessa dachugaka
tenetiga gurchi teruvari kiyyada
viswadhabhi rama vinura vema

Commentary: This verse of Vemana is a mirror image of verse 15, chapter III of the Uddhava Gita. The one who accumulate wealth with great struggle and pain., but neither spends it in dharmic activity nor enjoys it himself; instead he hides his hard-earned wealth carefully trying to protect it, in time it will fall into the hands of others. That man is like the bee that labours to gather a large quantity of honey without even relishing it. It eventually falls into the hands of the honey-gatherer.
(Vemanna Shatakam, verse 40)

The moral is: Don't be like a honey bee. A honey bee collects the honey but never gets to enjoy the honey. The large share of that honey is stolen or seized by someone else. Similarly, the accumulated wealth, when it is neither enjoyed nor shared, ends up with the rulers or thieves or is lost. Honey bee is a metaphor for a slave who works hard to accumulate wealth which is enjoyed by the rulers or thieves. In Kali Yuga, it is said that thieves become rulers or rulers act like thieves.

So, everyperson is advised not to become like a honey bee. But, it seems that whoever wrote pappu's script advocates a vision of desh where all the all deshis are turned into honey bees i.e. workers who accumulate wealth which can be enjoyed by rulers or thieves. (It is interesting that this is told to the business class...)

At least, the honey bees will sting, when someone tries to steal their honey. It seems pappu wants deshis to onlee learn to hug(ghandigiri?)... no applying force. Only soft power: Yoga, bollywood,...etc. No hard power. No stinging like bee, and neither floating like butter fly. Instead work like a bee...

Anyway, this analogy is something new from pappu. Generally, pappu(and people like pappu) have only two tricks(evasive replies to tough questions):
Reply 1) This is a good question. But the answer is not simple. It is complicated. One cannot expect simple answers to such questions which are inherently complex... and blah blah blah...
Reply 2) Good question! But, anyone can ask questions. Finding answers is the tricky part. You have asked the question, now imagine yourself in my position and try to answer it. Lets see how good you are with giving answers. Anyway, society needs to work together to develop. (in short, put the ball back in the court of the questioner).

This time, pappu(or more precisely pappu's script-writer) came up with a scene(china-hand-squeeze). And an analogy: deshis are like honey bees... they collect honey, but alas, never get to enjoy it...
Last edited by johneeG on 05 Apr 2013 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

Pratyush wrote:Even in my office I see INC loyalists every day. Some cannot be saved. But over the last 3 years I have converted most of them usually with one liners. That are so blunt & sarcastic that even the most die hard INC supporters are unable to defend the INC.
Pratush ji.. would you mind giving some examples? Curious - my experience with die hard INC guys is that they are just that.. they wild never accept anything (truth included) even if its laid out in front of them as they don't distinguish between the message and the messenger.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

The few that I have not converted have family links with the INC. All the rest I have managed to convert against the INC.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

US says Modi welcome to apply for visa

What are the chances that they will make Modi enter the US and then arrest him for Crimes against humanity? What will the UPA do in that case?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Pratyush ji,

I don't think USA would do that. UK is a different fish. They had arrested Augusto Pinochet as well, but that they too would do only if the man has become a non-entity.

If US starts arresting people like this, then any other country can arrest American Presidents and Senators and Representatives and Secretaries and Generals and Soldiers!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Aditya_V »

Plus the last thing USA and UK want to do is that they have been behind the Anti- Modi voice when he is popular. Nobody wants a public relations disaster.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sriman »

Btw, what's this 'Chappan' thing about? I'm sure whatever it is, it's hilarious. :roll:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vish_mulay »

Chappan as in ab tak chappan or chappan tikali both have negative bollywood connection.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Lilo »

Now Pagalika is trying to change her spots .. :rotfl:

Image

Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Inder Sharma »

Chappan is 56. Reference to Chest size.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kapilrdave »

People, we are really witnessing the history at the moment. After Jayrakash NM is the first real challenge to con. JP brought radical changes in the Indian polity nationwide which broke down the monopoly of con at least at the state level. This second wave will hopefully bring the much needed changes at the center level.

This is what happens when there is strong opposition in a democracy. The ruling party is checked and made to work in the interest of the nation. If there is no good opposition, then even weak and spineless - that G family is - ruling party can become a dynasty. This is already a huge win of NM that he has made the 'lords' to get out of their comfort zone and play by rules. And this is just the beginning. Kamsa's pot of sins is already overfull. Now its the time for him to vanish.
RamaY wrote: Yes he did (I typed that post while listening to him).

He clearly mentioned that Idea of India is not something like Idea of USA; it is much much bigger. It (the Idea of India) is what told to us by Gandhi, Buddha and Bhagavat Gita. It has the power to not only take the 200 million muslims along but the entire world along with us.
Someone please tell that stinking insect to not to utter Bhagvat Gita's or any other sacred names from his dirty mouth :x. We are ok with your sickular rhetoric. And don't even think that Hindus will be betrayed by this buffoonish tactics.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kapilrdave »

Sriman wrote:Btw, what's this 'Chappan' thing about? I'm sure whatever it is, it's hilarious. :roll:
Modi once said (in light mood) that he has Chappan Ki Chhati (56 inch chest), basically saying he fears no one.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Rahul Gandhi Steps Up to the Plate, Swings, Misses
The heir to the Gandhi-Nehru dynasty in India, Rahul Gandhi, tried today to compete with the BJP’s Narendra Modi on Modi’s home turf: the business world. By many accounts, he failed to impress. Addressing a gathering of Indian business tycoons in Delhi, his speech was vague and long on imagery and empty clichés, suggesting that Rahul has few or no concrete ideas about how to address India’s many economic quandaries.

“Millions of Indians are brimming with energy,” said Rahul, according to Reuters. “We are now sitting on an unprecedented tide of transformation. This tremendous movement of people and ideas are going to define this country in the 21st century…. It’s our duty to provide India with an infrastructure that connects our villages and cities and the rest of the world.”

Criticisms of the “shy and secretive” 42-year-old Rahul came fast and furious. Before his speech had even ended, the hashtag #PappuCII began trending on Twitter (Pappu is a derogatory Hindi term meaning “dumb kid” and CII was the name of the conference he was speaking at). ”A confused leader presented his confused ideology which nobody could understand,” the spokesperson for Modi’s BJP party told reporters. Rahul has ”nothing to offer on the present problems” said former Finance Minister and senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha.

One of the main factors contributing to the Congress Party’s slipping popularity is that its leaders either don’t know what to do or can’t summon the political energy to get the economy out of the doldrums. Modi has capitalized on this disillusionment, presenting himself as a no-nonsense, efficient businessman. If Rahul’s speech today represents the best he and his party have to say about India’s economic and social future, he has his work cut out for him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anmol »

Who is this Rajiv Shah ?
Lies, damn lies, and statistics
Rajiv Shah
10 June 2012, 10:42 AM IST

Does Gujarat government fudge figures to “prove” its success story? The suspicion is, indeed, not new. I recollect how chief minister Narendra Modi, post-2002 riots, insisted for at least three continuous years that Gujarat’s annual rate of growth was 14.6 per cent. I also believed him (and his aides) till one fine day a senior bureaucrat showed me unofficially – that the high rate was being shown even for the year when it was around six per cent! At a press conference that followed – a rarity nowadays – I asked Modi about his comment on this six per cent. He looked around for a while, and on getting a reply from an aide murmured, “When you are already on a high pedestal, it is difficult to go higher.” One can possibly say, then, he had political reasons for hyping Gujarat’s growth story. He wanted to establish himself, wanted people to forget riots and see how Gujarat had already become No 1 under him.

Things, apparently, have not changed more than half-a-decade later, though he has established himself as Prime Ministerial candidate. Modi today insists, Gujarat’s agriculture has been growing double digit every year. And, this at a time when his officials told Planning Commission on June 1-2 in Delhi that, during the 11th Five Year Plan (2007-12), state agriculture grew by just about five per cent per annum. There was a year when agriculture was in the negative – minus 13 per cent, followed by another year when it was “equal to zero”, to quote one official. Figures handed over to the Planning Commission also suggested that in the industrial sector (secondary sector in official jargon), where Gujarat claims to be No 1, the state grew in single digit in 2011-12 – by eight per cent, exactly. All these figures have been kept under the carpet. They are not being officially released. The pretext is, they are being “finalized”.

“Fudging figures” may indeed be a tall order. A few senior experts met in a closed-door seminar in Ahmedabad about a fortnight ahead of the Planning Commission meet. They, too, wanted to “understand” Gujarat’s growth story, whether it could at all be called a model for other states to follow, as Modi would want them to believe. I didn’t attend the seminar, but I managed a note from a source in the Planning Commission on its conclusions. Scanning through it, what struck me most was, several experts seemed to feel that there is something fundamentally wrong with the figures Gujarat government has been officially disseminating. The scholars only fell short of declaring that the figures had been manipulated, though one of them, a demographer, agreed, “Manipulating figures to suit one’s ideology is common.”

Speaking at the seminar, Prof YK Alagh, a well-known economist, wondered why Gujarat was at all claiming a double digit rate of growth in agriculture when, even by global standards, a four plus per cent of growth in the sector was considered very good. The seminar note quotes him as saying, “Though the growth rate was not 10 per cent per year as has been claimed, but a little more that five per cent growth rate also is one of the highest agricultural growth rates achieved anywhere in the world for a decadal period.” Coming from such a veteran expert left no doubt in my mind that growth figures may have been fudged even though there is no reason to do it. One official later told me, “Our data, based on satellite imagery, are different from the agricultural surveys carried out for crop insurance. The discrepancy is wide.”

Others at the seminar suggested how social sector data are being “manipulated”. Prof Leela Visaria, speaking on the status of health of children and women, said that she “relies more on data from large national surveys, as the other data sources such as official administrative data are frequently not reliable”. While she agreed that the infant mortality rate (IMR) has declined from 69 per 1000 live births in early 1990s to 44 in 2010, quoting survey data, she said, “Gujarat ranks poor in the rank in this decline among the major 20 states in India.” In fact, she revealed that “the percentage of married women aged 15-49 suffering form anaemia increased in the state, from 46 in 1992-93 to 56 in 2005-06. This incidence is particularly high among rural, illiterate, ST and poor women. This is a serious matter also because the children of anaemic mothers are highly prone to chronic and acute malnourishment. Clearly, mere distribution of iron and folic acid tablets to pregnant women is not a solution.”

Speaking almost in a similar tone, Prof Sudarshan Iyengar said the official data on retention of children in primary schools need to be checked. “Since the official method of calculating dropout rate is not specified by the Directorate Primary Education, the reliability of these data is questionable. There is no reason to believe in the official data on school retention. The reliability of the data is also challenged by other studies by scholars”, he underscored, adding, “Poor quality of education is a serious problem in Gujarat. Introduction of Gunotsav in 2009 was, in a way, recognition of the fact that quality of education is below the desired level. This annual event, however, cannot substitute regular machinery.”

Scanning through what Prof Iyengar had to say, I instantly remembered of what a senior state official told me about how the political leadership actually likes to show up cent per cent enrolment in schools by hook or by crook. This official, who has now retired, told me how Anandiben Patel, a former education minister who remains ideologically closest to Modi, called for enrolment data from different districts soon after the Kanya Kelavni child enrolment drive. “We collected the data and gave it to the minister. The minister called for a meeting and declared the data were all wrong. She split the meeting angrily. Later, she directly called for more data from districts, which she got. She added these data to the data that we had given. And what she gave us a nearly cent per cent enrolment!”, this official said.
The transparency sham
Rajiv Shah
04 February 2013, 10:47 AM IST

It was nearly two years ago. A representative of Ahmedabad-based voluntary organization, Pathey, founded by one senior activist-turned-Congress politician, handed over to me during a session of the Gujarat state assembly a four-page folder which said, on the basis of a survey, that Gujarat government topped in transparency index among a group of 10 major states. The state powerdom, obviously, went gaga over it, seeking political gain. The index was based on queries regarding transparency in budget making. The survey was carried out in alliance with New Delhi-based Centre for Budget and Governance Accountability (CBGA). What seemed to provide credence to the survey was, it was sponsored, among others, by Ford Foundation and Oxfam India. Covering budget-making in Gujarat every year after being posted in Gandhinagar in 1997, I wasn’t just amused but irritated, as my interaction with top state guns was just the opposite. Indeed, there was lot of transparency when I began covering Sachivalaya for the Times of India in late 1990s, so much so that officials would willingly part with any data you wanted, even if these told harsh realities. But after Narendra Modi came to power in October 2001, things changed, so much so that inconvenient data began being increasingly suppressed. Only those data which seemed convenient to Modi was selectively released.

Recently, senior academic Indira Hirway told me how she was getting frequent calls from members of the Planning Commission wanting her to ask state officials to provide latest state growth rate data. All states had “reconciled” these data for 2011-12, except Gujarat. I don’t know the reason, but a Planning Commission source says, much against the loud claims of the state government of double digit rate of growth, state agriculture grew by 7.53 per cent during the 11th five year plan. A good growth rate, it also seemed to suggest that it was mainly because during one year the state agriculture grew by 27.05 per cent, but slipped into the negative for two other years!

I was instantly reminded of the Pathey survey during my during interaction with two Ahmedabad-based Right to Information (RTI) activists, Pankti Jog and Harinesh Pandya, who run Mahiti Adhikar Gujarat Pahel (MAGP), which provides hotline service to anyone wanting to know on how to make an RTI application. As I sat with them during a wintry afternoon, phone calls kept ringing. If ordinary citizens wanted to know how to make RTI applications, government officials tried to find out how to reply to particular RTI pleas. “There is no dearth of phone calls from officials, who wanted to be acquainted of the rules under which an application is accepted or rejected”, they told me, suggesting, awareness on RTI rules was lacking at all levels in the government.

The activists handed over to me a reply they had received to their plea to get details of tours of ministers and other officials, both foreign and domestic. Jog wanted these should be declared suo motu, as part of voluntary disclosure under RTI. She showed me a Government of India order, which said that half-yearly suo motu declaration, starting with January 1, 2012, be regularly made public and posted on the web, so that public do not need to resort to the RTI Act to obtain it.

Gujarat government, in its reply dated January 5, 2013, told Jog that though it had received the Central order, it couldn’t give the information or put it on the web, as the file on was “under consideration”. I wondered, if Gujarat government was so transparent, why this reluctance? Or, was it afraid of parting with some hard facts? It is common knowledge: Modi must ride the chopper even if he has to go just 50 km from Gandhinagar. Jog and Pandya told me that, voluntary disclosures, under RTI rules, should be made not just of official tours of ministers but also about any concessions the government may have given to entrepreneurs or organizations. As an example, they gave me an order by Gujarat information commissioner RN Das, dated June 27, 2011, where he quotes serial No (viii) of Section 4 (1)(b) of the RTI Act, which stipulates the need to proactively disclose “particulars of the recipients of concessions, permits, or authorizations” granted by a public authority. Jog had demanded information on mining leases in Porbandar, given by the state, and it took full four years for the state information commissioner to order it be given. “Eighteen months after the order, the government hasn’t provided any information, let alone put it on the web”, she told said. It wasn’t hard for me to guess as to why concessions to the Tatas’ Nano car project, or Ford, or other such mega projects aren’t made public either. The pretext is – it would harm the corporates’ business interest!

In her application dated July 9, 2007 to the district collector’s office, Jog had demanded “details of the all the leases/permissions” for building stone (bela patthar) mining in Porbandar district”. The information she had sought included name of the lease holder and contact details, the date of commencement of the lease, its expiry date, the date of renewal, the area for which the mining is permitted or lease is allotted, nature or type of land on which mining is allowed, the depth in feet till which mining is allowed, number of visits to the mining site by the government officers from the date of the commencement, and details of violations and action taken.

The illegal mining issue, if anything, suggests the travesty of transparency of Gujarat government. In mid-2000s, two IAS bureaucrats were posted, one after another, as district collector, Porbandar, Sheila Benjamin and VN Chhibber. Both exceptionally tried to fight illegal mining. At one stage Benjamin wrote to the government how mafia was running the show and she was helpless in the face of lack of support from the government. She was summarily transferred. Chhibber actually took action against the mafia. And, he was made to suffer – insiders confirm, a fake inquiry was instituted against him on the last date of retirement, December 31, 2011. As the story goes, Chhibber was posted in Porbandar with specific instructions from the chief minister’s office (CMO) to “investigate illegal activities” of Opposition leader Arjun Modhwadia, who hails from Porbandar. On reaching Porbandar, Chhibber found nothing against Modhwadia, but found a senior BJP leader very close to Modi deeply involved in illegal mining. This senior leader, incidentally, is now a Cabinet minister under Modi.

Travesty of transparency is strongly felt in budget making, too. As the last year drew to a close, I would often approach additional chief secretary, finance, Varesh Sinha – just promoted as Gujarat chief secretary – for details of the amount collected by Gujarat government as value added tax (VAT) and registration of real estate deals, as reflected in stamp duty collection. I told him, it would suggest the impact of the slowdown on the state economy. Sinha, without mincing words, replied he “didn’t have” these details. Once he said he would “look into the matter”, but he never did. I approached his junior, economic affairs secretary S Aparna. She promised me she would give me details. I approached her half-a-dozen times, and she would either say she had “forgotten” or I should approach her some other day. Finally, she told me to approach some other officials. Interestingly, these details come to her and Sinha on a daily basis and were part of their budget-making exercise.

In another instance, a senior state official would in the past gladly hand me over details of the amount spent by the state government under annual plan, for developmental works. For the last two years, things became difficult for him to retrieve the information because, as he put it, “Gujarat government doesn’t make available comprehensive details of the amount spent to all secretaries. Each department secretary is kept in the dark about the amount spent by all other departments.” Insiders, of course, tell me, how at the end of each year the government fails to spend huge sums, often up to Rs 10,000 crore, and all of it is shown as “spent” by “parking” it with government boards or corporations!
anmol
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anmol »

First wife and now: Image
RT @kishanreddybjp Banner of Sri.G.Kishan Reddy garu's movement against state govt failure in power sector. http://t.co/n5RDPETVF4
Image
Kar will see a 3D Modi
April 5, 2013
The fact that the BJP in Karnataka is banking heavily on Modi is no secret. Not only will they convince the Gujarat Chief Minister to address 15 rallies in Karnataka, the people of the state will see Modi masks and interestingly the 3d holographic projection technology which will project the leader himself in the state.

Looking at the preparations of each of these parties closely, it looks that the most tech savvy of all the campaigns would be put up by the BJP.

The BJP has a dedicated IT Cell in Bangalore and has been responsible for almost all events of the party in which technology has been put to good use. The IT Cell would work on the party’s campaign this time. Many within the party are aware that the chances of the party are not all that great and hence they would have to do something spectacular to put up a good show. The BJP in Karnataka is in talks with leaders in Gujarat who made the 3d technology a possibility.

The surprise package this time around is the Janata Dal (S) which has always been averse to using technology for its campaign. The party has traditionally relied on a rural vote bank and never found the need to adopt to technology. This time around the party. The party has hired a special officer to ensure that the party’s message is conveyed on all social media sites such as twitter, facebook and youtube. All speeches made by these the leaders of the party would be on youtube, a JD(S) leader informed.

The Congress on the other hand has decided to limit the use of technology and rely more on star power. Their campaigns would be led by leaders such as Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi and also Dr Manmohan Singh. In Karnataka, there is reliance on Siddaramaiah to pull the crowds. But the party is also roping in actors such as Chiranjeevi from Andhra Pradesh, Ambareesh, Darshan and Ramya to woo the voters. In addition to this they have hired a professional to interact with the media.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by anmol »

After Manish Tewari, Rashid Alvi takes a dig at Modi, labels him Yamraj

India Today Online New Delhi, April 5, 2013 | UPDATED 18:13 IST

The Congress-Narendra Modi war of words is getting worse by the day. In the latest attack on the Gujarat Chief Minister, Congress's senior leader Rashid Alvi on Friday went on to compare him with the god of death in Hindu mythology, Yamraj.

At a press conference, the Congress spokesperson was taking questions on party vice-president Rahul Gandhi's speech at Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) meet on Thursday when he said, "Rahulji was talking about a guy on horse. Had he been referring to Modi, he would have said the man on buffalo."

In further attack on Modi, Alvi said the BJP leader's desire to rule in Delhi reflected in his speech in Gandhinagar as he talked bout repaying India's debt.

"Dilli aane kee khwaish aisee hai ki hajar khwahishe aisee hee, har khwahish pe dum nikle... If Lord Ram brings him to Delhi and Modi begins to repay his debt as he did in Gujarat, then even the thought is scary...," Alvi said reacting to Modi's hint about his willingness to serve in Delhi on a national role.

Earlier in the day, Information and Broadcasting Minister Manish Tewari had also targeted Modi over his ambitions as he too referred to 2002 Gujarat communal riots.

"As someone who believes in the idea of India and the plurality of the Indian ethos and is committed to the founding values of the India constitution, I often worry at the statement of the state of chief minister of Gujarat and hope he does not want to do in the rest of India what he did in 2002," Tewari said referring to the 2002 riots.

Earlier, Modi had said on Thursday, "People are saying that I have repaid the debt of Gujarat and they are now asking me to repay the debt owed to India."

- With inputs from Headlines Today
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Wow, did Rajdeep seriously say there Fvck off? I am not prudent, but a journalist uttering that should be shameful. All pretense gone, all gloves off, they are getting paid more. :-)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

People should back Modi and make him the PM: Ramdev

Is his political party statement a ploy to push NM in BJP?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by prahaar »

SwamyG wrote:Wow, did Rajdeep seriously say there Fvck off? I am not prudent, but a journalist uttering that should be shameful. All pretense gone, all gloves off, they are getting paid more. :-)
If any person's MAIN identity is challenged/dismissed/belittled, it can bring out tremendous viciousness. He and many of his ilk cannot digest even a tiny fraction of what our netas (politicos) need to digest as part of their daily job.

He considers himself a meritorious and bright journalist, and so does many of his ilk. These so-called Buddhi-jivis are extremely image conscious. It is funny that while living in a house made of glass they were throwing stones, kitchen-sink and everything at almost anyone and everyone (except a few high and mighty).

Coming back to the topic of this thread, it is funny that media is analyzing RG's non-answers. There was no level playing field between NM and RG (in the Q&A), and I would suggest that no one here should even expect it that way.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vijayk »

Pratyush wrote:US says Modi welcome to apply for visa

What are the chances that they will make Modi enter the US and then arrest him for Crimes against humanity? What will the UPA do in that case?
who? Obama? He was ready to touch the feet of Saudi royals :rotfl:
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