Indian Railways Thread

[vsunder]

In the late 1950's IR wanted to induct diesels into India. GE and ALCO( American Locomotive Company)
were the leading contenders. IR had already some experience with American loco companies,
there were several steam locos in its stable built by the famous Baldwin steam loco company of Philadelphia. However, for diesels, GE refused the ToT clause but ALCO agreed. Thus the first WDM2 which for several years remained the principal workhorse of IR arrived in India. A team of loco pilots
and Indian engineers went to tour ALCO works in Schnectady, NY. This video shot on 8mm by Arthur Mitchell( the son of one of the IR engineers who went to the US and was at Mumbai to receive the first diesel locos) and shows the first ALCO locos arriving in India at the docks in Mumbai. Subsequently some were based in Kharagpur(KGP). No doubt replacing the famous Beyer-Garratt's of SER. I still remember the early WDM2's, they had a symbol pasted on them of two hands shaking with the stars and stripes above the hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpEKiPopaec

[chaanakya]

Its a Keeper.
Great video. I think many of them are still working esp WDM-2. They were produced at Chitranjan (CLW) with ALCO prototypes.
I had seen them working in Deluxe Tri-Weekly ( first fully Air-conditioned Express train) running between HWH and NDLS and also in Rajdhani in late seventies.

Thanks for sharing.

[member_20036]

Muzaffarpur-Yesvantpur Express derailed in TN; 2 dead, 50 injured

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/04/10/t ... 63858.html

An express train derailed at Sitheri near Arakkonam, Tamil Nadu, on early Wednesday morning killing two and injured 50 others, railway sources said.

Nine coaches of the Muzaffarpur-Yesvantpur Express bound for Yesvantpur derailed at about 05:50 am, they said.

Two passengers were killed in the mishap, while the injured were admitted to the hospitals by the rescue teams of the Southern Railway, they added.

In the wake of the incident, the rail traffic on Arakkonam junction has been affected, sources said.

Nine people were killed when Chennai Beach-Vellore Cantonment Mainline Electrical Multiple Unit (MEMU) train rammed into the Arakkonam-Katpadi passenger from behind as it was waiting for a signal at Sitheri Station in 2011.

A team of Railway officials from Chennai have reached the accident site and held preliminary enquiries on the cause of the mishap, railway sources said.

The Southern Railway cancelled seven trains including Bangalore-bound Brindavan Express, Duranto Express between Chennai-Coimbatore and Kovai Express.

The West Coast Express, Coimbatore Inter-City Express and Chennai-Tiruvananthapuram mail have also been cancelled, they said.

[prashanth]

Modern Coaches like LHBs have crumple zones at both ends to absorb shocks and low CG to avoid toppling and so minimize damages upon derailment. We need to replace these outdated coaches with the LHBs, no matter how expensive they are.
And I hope the high speed train idea gets shelved now and here.

[Singha]

these could actually be improved coaches.

earlier, the couplings used to detach and coaches jacknife and climb atop one another leading to huge casualties. this was until mid 90s.

the newer designs (and I think above are that) the couplings remain intact and the entire train kind of leaves the rails as a single snake type thing which prevents solitary coaches from jacknifing or tumbling away out of control. this seems to have worked in the above case. yes there will still be serious injuries from falling passengers but the old pics of detached coaches half crushed , overturned or lying in a ditch 50m away are not common anymore.

note this was a derailment, hence less severe test than a collision.

[pentaiah]

Yes vsunder garu
I remember to the hand shaking pictures on WDM2
If I am not wrong those were gifted to under Colombo plan or heavily subsidized.

ALCO is was GM company, also YDM2 were operated on meter gauge comparable steam engine YP (equivalent Baldwin CP WP engine on broad gauge ) was made by TATA in TELCo jameshedpur

[Bade]

On the contrary this may be the best time to start on high speed rail line as green field projects. Trying to fit imported coaches to existing system of networks and level of quality is not going to make things look better or travel anymore comfortable. A fresh rethink is needed.

[hnair]

Bade-saar, augmenting select trunk-routes of the current rail network might be considered less risky by the loan giving institutions. Separate dedicated freight corridors + increasing current speed by curve reduction, segregating commuter/MEMU trains using additional lines etc seem to be what IR is leaning towards.

vsunder-saar, really nice video. The quality and color is pretty nice

[RamaY]

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 483&page=9

wife travelled multiple times to the soothing opulence and surgical neatness of this railway station in nanjing, a kind of tier-2 city in cheen...using a 300kmph HSR also seen here.

the space and std of construction rivals any airport worldwide.

note that cities like shanghai and beijing probably have invested even more in such infra being tier-1 big wolf cities.

I guess its designed to make gora tourists coming from someplace like grubby penn stn drop their jaws on the floor instantly

but you just get a glimpse of the huge gap in infra spending between cheen and mainoland here. and the congis intend to keep it that way to feed on poverty & persistant shortages like a virus.

the famed "LHB" coaches of shatabdi and WAP7 look like Mig19 vs Raptor here. onlee they are the raptor and we the Mig19

money talks. everything else walks.

Very nice. I think it will come to India too, as we have seen with Airport modernization program. Already some metro stations are looking TFTA.

I am looking forward for Hyd Metro stations to complete. IIRC, these will be integrated stations combined with Bus shuttles, Shopping malls etc., Then we will have a good TFTA look.

The Indian Railways are Govt Owned. They will have to be privatized to make them look like above where they can be build with integrated malls, hotels etc.,

For example the Sec-Bad railway station (~1 Sq.KM) can be made into a multi-storied integrated station with trains, shopping malls, hotels and even public/private offices combined. It will be a huge project ($1-2B) but will get the ROI in no time.

Nanjing isn't quite a tier 2 city the way we call it. It's historically important in Chinese history, as a former capital. More like Kolkata in that regard, with the the analogy of Delhi ~ Beijing and Bombay ~ Shanghai. The name Nanjing itself means south capital (Nan = south); Beijing means north capital.

Yes, their economy is structured towards high top down fixed asset investment, and it shows. In our case though, we might be better following what the Japanese did in building their Shinkansen system. In the Chinese case, someone at the top orders it done and it gets done. The Japanese spend time building consensus, but then it gets done. In our case we spend ages arguing and then agree the costs have risen too much as a result, and cancel the idea

It can be done quickly too. For example, again using Sec-Bad area in AP in mind

1. It is about 1+ Sq.KM area. This area already has
- Train station
- Bus stations
- Now planned metro station
- Oldest Farm Market

Now combine this with some shopping malls, recreation areas, Govt offices (so people come there and finish their work), Colleges (lot of students can come here) and so on...

Develop a multi storied concept where each level has some greenery area (indoor or outdoor-preferred)... it can be a very profitable project.

The policy hurdle is to get the land etc transferred from Railways to the project and so on....

Perhaps, Indian Railways can earn lot of money this way. Select top 100 Cities in India and sell the Sq.KM area for $1B or so (very much possible where land prices are >Rs 20-30Crore/Acre) and use this money ($100B) to upgrade entire railway system with double tracks, captive electric plants and so on...

[Javee]

April 16, 2013 marks the 160th anniversary of India's first passenger train journey in which 400 invited passengers travelled in 14 carriages on a 57 minute journey from Bori Bunder in Bombay (now Mumbai) to Thane.
Since that first journey in 1853, railways have have become one of the most important modes of transportation in the country. Here's a look back at the early days of Indian railways in a series of photographs from the 19th century.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/vintage-imag ... 681-3.html

[SBajwa]

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130418/main4.htm

Trains to chug on new Chd-Ludhiana link from tomorrow
Aarti Kapur/TNS

Chandigarh, April 17
After a wait of 12 years, the Chandigarh-Ludhiana rail link will finally be made operational from April 19. The first train from Chandigarh to Amritsar via Ludhiana using the new track will shorten the journey from Chandigarh to Ludhiana by half an hour. Earlier, the journey between the two cities via Sirhind used to take two hours.

The train from Chandigarh will now pass through Mohali, Kharar, Junction Morinda, New Morinda, Khamano, Samrala, Lallkalan, Sahnewal and Dhandar before reaching Ludhiana. Divisional railway manager PK Sangi said the department had received a communication to advance the departure from Chandigarh to 5.30 pm from 6.50 pm.

He said the department was yet to receive the copy of the safety certificate from the Chief Commissioner of Rail Safety (CCRS) but was expected to be received by tomorrow.

As the timing of the train has been revised, the passengers who have already booked their tickets will be informed through telephone, text messages and notices, which will be put up at the railway station and reservation counters.

The Chandigarh-Ludhiana link was announced in the Union Railway Budget of 2000. The work on the project was started by Northern Railway in 2001 but due to fund delays and operational hurdles, the work remained held up. Railway Minister Pawan Kumar Bansal had announced that the link would be made operational by March 31.

The project had been divided into three phases. The 45-km first phase from Chandigarh to New Morinda via Mohali and Kharar was completed in 2006. Trains like the Amritsar Duronto and the Jan Shatabdi were already running on this section. The 14-km third phase from Sahnewal to Ludhiana was completed in November, 2012. The 51-km second phase between New Morinda and Sahnewal has now been completed.

[kmkraoind]

From Dailymail.co.uk

[Singha]

and what of UK...what have they done to be considered a high tech rail superpawa?

Cheen has invested around $50-100 billion capex _annually_ over the last decade on railway lines, rolling stock and those swank stations.

probably all other countries combined have not spent as much in same time.

we know the issues with IR - there is never anywhere remotely close to such sums available to spend even if political forces were willing. IR is a employment engine and cash cow for politicians and contractors - carrying pax and goods is merely incidental to that

now go sit in the side berth of a II tier III sleeper compartment and marvel at how capital-efficient and environment friendly the IR is .... spreading fertilizer all over the country to boost crop yields.

[Klaus]

The psy-ops in the graphic is telling: the top-view of a bullet train vs the steam engine on Indian tracks. The Brit media probably thinks nothing of the improvement of the locomotives either.

[Sachin]

and what of UK...what have they done to be considered a high tech rail superpawa?

Britain has reduced its Railway network (Beeching Act etc. etc.). But I feel they did focus on increasing the overall speed of trains. They can boast around that when they left in 1947 they passed onto us a well oiled machinery in the form of Railways. For that time and age, I guess IR did have very many best practises, technologies already in place. China, if I am not mistaken did not get any thing similar to what India got. The British do have a high speed network for trains (though may not be of TGV or Bullet train standards). What we may need to analyse is what was India doing for the last 50 years, and what China did differently. If it is a case of money allocation etc., from where did China manage to raise the funds which India could not.

[Theo_Fidel]

This is technically not true.

What Britain left behind was a complete hodge podge mess of random railway companies, something like 60+ different combinations of gauge and operations, all incompatible. The british could do this because they privileged railways over even things like education as it was a means of ruling the land. So it was that the british raj spent 22% of its budget on railways in 1932, while education got less than 1%. We ended up with a literacy rate of 6% when the British left.

Over the past 60 years India has laboriously gone through and re-laid just about every mile of mess the british left behind. Finally most of our lines are on single gauge and most are doubled, tripled and even quadrupled. This was a huge challenge for a financially poor and resource starved country.

It is true that in this time of rapid growth we have few excuses. It should be possible to divert $20 Billion or so in capital investment every year, expanding lines, speeding up trains, building the DFC, etc. This is only 5% of the budget and should be doable. IMO we should start with our ‘toilet’ problem. This business of $hitting on the tracks in our stations and elsewhere must stop.

[Nikhil T]

IRCTC's central kitchen : Serving trains and corporates

Awesome slideshow about an awesome initiative. Kudos IRCTC!

[Singha]

another mysterious derailment....ibnlive

Kanpur: A Patna-bound Express train made an unscheduled stop at Fafoond railway station in Auraiya district after a pregnant passenger complained of labour pain. In the process, a coach of the Sampoorna Kranti Express, which was coming from Delhi, derailed. However, no injuries to any passenger was reported.
Amit Malviya, PRO, Northern Central Railways said that the pregnant woman, sitting in S-10 coach of the train, had complained of labour pain on Saturday night and her husband subsequently informed the staff. A team of doctors was arranged at the Fafoond railway station after which the train was ordered to make an unscheduled stop, he said.
The train driver was directed to put the train in loop line. In the process, the S-10 coach derailed from the tracks resulting in panic among the passengers. The pregnant woman was taken out safely and she delivered her baby in a district hospital. Both the mother and the baby are stable.

In the process, a coach of the Sampoorna Kranti Express, which was coming from Delhi, derailed.
The other passengers were shifted to various coaches of the train, which started running again without the derailed coach after two hours, he said. Rail traffic was stopped on the Delhi-Howrah up line.
Normal traffic was restored on the down line after 2 am, he said, adding that a team of senior railway officers has reached Fafoond railway station and investigation has started in the matter.

[vishvak]

This is technically not true.

What Britain left behind was a complete hodge podge mess of random railway companies, something like 60+ different combinations of gauge and operations, all incompatible. The british could do this because they privileged railways over even things like education as it was a means of ruling the land. So it was that the british raj spent 22% of its budget on railways in 1932, while education got less than 1%. We ended up with a literacy rate of 6% when the British left.

Over the past 60 years India has laboriously gone through and re-laid just about every mile of mess the british left behind. Finally most of our lines are on single gauge and most are doubled, tripled and even quadrupled. This was a huge challenge for a financially poor and resource starved country.

It is true that in this time of rapid growth we have few excuses. It should be possible to divert $20 Billion or so in capital investment every year, expanding lines, speeding up trains, building the DFC, etc. This is only 5% of the budget and should be doable. IMO we should start with our ‘toilet’ problem. This business of $hitting on the tracks in our stations and elsewhere must stop.

Even in loot and run the Bruts messed up for decades. Considering how Indians have turned railways over surmounting challenges and managed that in comprehensive and skilled manner it is the Brutes who could have been Indian protectorate technically. Alas it was the other way haphazard loot and scoot railroads.

[Suraj]

Theo, would you mind researching the topic further with archival data from the IR archives and elsewhere to buttress your statements ? It would be an extremely useful article or blog post to use to demolish this standard lie whenever it props up on any online forum or news medium.

[vishvak]

This may help http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1258983

[Virupaksha]

A more PC version where only the final effects are mentioned but the underlying reasons and who caused it is hidden.
http://vadakkus.com/tag/indian-railway-story/

especially this.

http://vadakkus.com/2012/06/27/indian-r ... 5-history/

The real history of the Indian Railways as we see it today starts with Indian Independence from the British rule, as it is with everything else in modern India. Though most of the lines we see today were originally the work of the British, there was no uniform railway system during those times as we see today. What was present was but just a bunch of trains which ran across the country to carry the loot, make some money and keep the Gora Sahib happy. The Railways had a good run under the British till they realized that they had to one day grant India independence, after which they stopped investing and let the railways (and the rest of the country) rot. At the time of independence, all assets that were under the British in India were transferred to their respective Indian counterparts, including the Railways. But not everything was rosy out there, and I am not even talking about the trauma of partition.
By around 1930 with the boycott of the Simon Commission, the declaration of “Poorna Swaraj” and with the increasing noise against their rule, it became clear to the British that they could not go on governing India forever and would have to grant us independence eventually. As a result they started to slow down their long term investments in India which included the Railways. The Great Depression which hit the West during this time only added to this decision. Almost no substantial new lines were built from 1930 to 1947 except the ones which were already under construction and many proposed projects were canceled. Then the Second World War rolled around. During 1939, 40% of locomotives and rolling stock in India (obviously, the better ones) were put on ships and transported to the Middle East to help British war efforts, and railway factories produced military equipment instead of Railway stuff. All this left India with old, obsolete, derelict and run-down locomotives and rolling stock. This also led to a huge shortage of locos, coaches and wagons, leading to permanent cancellation of a large number of trains and the closure of many stations. As a result, many lines were closed or dismantled (and exported) and the remaining were left to rust.

he Indian Railways at the time of Independence

Contrary to the history that is widely believed, the “glorious” Railways that India inherited from the British was a highly complicated, decaying, irregular, aging, outdated, decrepit and very diverse network, a big mess to say the least. There were 52 different railway companies in India which operated independently and were competing with each other. Many of these were owned by the British Government, some by British companies, some by Indian companies and some by Princely states. The network that existed then was a patchwork of 5 different gauge types (Broad, Standard, Meter, Narrow and Very Narrow). All imaginable kinds of rolling stock constructed in all kinds of configuration were in use, made out of wood or metal or both. Then there was the mish-mash of Indian and foreign locomotives, mostly old steam some electric and the odd diesel. Fare structures, train numbers, routes, timetables and operations were more complicated than Nuclear Physics. As the West had largely moved on to Diesel and Electric from Steam, almost all non-suburban services (a whopping 99%!) in India were still running on wheezing steam locomotives. In 1950, there were 8120 steam locomotives, 72 electric locomotives (almost all were suburban EMU local trains) and just 17 diesel locomotives in India (source). Also, only 388 km of the entire route length was electrified at independence, a paltry 0.72%, with Mumbai – Pune being the ONLY electrified non-suburban route in the country. Most of the track length was Meter Gauge, with Broad Gauge coming in a close second. The total track route in undivided India at independence was around 83,000 km, out of which a large share (25,000 km) went to the newly created state of (East and West) Pakistan. What remained in present day India was around 54,000 km of track.

1950s to 1970s were spent to just to get railways running with the partition cutting off complete states and this is the state of railways which are treated as a gift by our shri shri priya pradhan mantri MMS

[Singha]

has the concept of platform tickets been abolished in IR?

went near midnight to drop family in bangalore central. no p-ticket vending machine or the dedicated counter of old were present. nobody was at the exits checking tickets though trains were moving in and out.

quite a few cops seen prowling the platforms though. the place looked much cleaner than last time, no garbage etc lying around and no rats the size of cats going on their nightly rounds.

[prahaar]

P tickets do not have dedicated windows anymore, they are served in the same window as the unreserved tickets. I bought a platform ticket in Pune just a few weeks back, so probably it is still in use.

[vishvak]

^^^Uppity brutish and their scholarly univs. are too busy badmouthing others too notice all these broken pieces left and hardwork by Indians to correct mistakes and repair flaws. Perhaps brutish and their too big to fail universities are unimprovable.

[Rahul M]

still in use. singha saar should be glad that no TTE was around to catch him breaking the law.

[Theo_Fidel]

Suraj,

Give me some time. That is what I remember from my reading of archival records. A quick glance tells me the numbers are correct +/-. I'll pull it together when I get time.

[Singha]

P tickets do not have dedicated windows anymore, they are served in the same window as the unreserved tickets. I bought a platform ticket in Pune just a few weeks back, so probably it is still in use.

Each unreserved ticket window had a line of people 20 deep and angry with waiting. Anyone even sniffing near the line was being heckled and booed .

So either they care no more for ptickets or just laying a trap for the unwary.

Unreserved tkts are now sold in a small hall on left of sbc main bldg...i went there too and came back on seeing the ground situation.

[Singha]

Singha saar, the vending machine is to the left before you enter the main station building. Usually, the guy sells from a stack and prints tickets only in the day time.

Maybe he shut shop for the day..it was 11:30 pm...no machine was there where it used to be

[Suraj]

Suraj,

Give me some time. That is what I remember from my reading of archival records. A quick glance tells me the numbers are correct +/-. I'll pull it together when I get time.

Thanks Theo. A carefully put together article in the form of a blog post or even a guest article on some website (or both) would be very useful - easy to link to whenever some comes up with the usual 'we gave you railwayz, so stfu!' BS. It's very easy to sit here calling them names, but having a persistent article that's frequently linked to would be beneficial on multiple fronts - it would serve as a common rejoinder, and the process of doing so will elevate it within search engine rankings too.

[krishnan]

has the concept of platform tickets been abolished in IR?

went near midnight to drop family in bangalore central. no p-ticket vending machine or the dedicated counter of old were present. nobody was at the exits checking tickets though trains were moving in and out.

quite a few cops seen prowling the platforms though. the place looked much cleaner than last time, no garbage etc lying around and no rats the size of cats going on their nightly rounds.

Depends, but most of the time, p.tickets are not checked late night..in chennai central its very rare to see them being checked but people still buy them

[Sachin]

Depends, but most of the time, p.tickets are not checked late night..in chennai central its very rare to see them being checked but people still buy them

During the recent trip I made by IR, one thought which came to my mind was...for a more comfortable journey and efficient service only bonafide ticket holding passengers should be allowed any where on the railway platform. Or else it is chaos all around to right inside the coaches (where W/L passengers queue up all through the night waiting to bribe the TTE and get a berth). Where as these folks should be turned away right at the platform entrance itself. But I also know this is going to be a pipe-dream for years to come.

[Singha]

porters nowadays have JV with waiting taxi operators. I saw one porter being paid by a taxi driver when he got a family to the taxi.

[prahaar]

During the recent trip I made by IR, one thought which came to my mind was...for a more comfortable journey and efficient service only bonafide ticket holding passengers should be allowed any where on the railway platform. Or else it is chaos all around to right inside the coaches (where W/L passengers queue up all through the night waiting to bribe the TTE and get a berth). Where as these folks should be turned away right at the platform entrance itself. But I also know this is going to be a pipe-dream for years to come.

Not sure it is a good idea to bar others. A lot of folks, especially the elderly need help to get themselves and their luggage into the compartments. Porters would squeeze us dry by increasing their already exorbitant rates!

iirc, IR did run campaigns to this effect - as in, leave the platforms open to travellers but it has not reduced the loads much. And of course, the traditional goodbye/wave from the platform to departing travellers wouldn't be part of our filmi lexicon anymore.

Another significant reason for heavy crowds (at least on important railway junctions) is the use of railway platforms as temporary accommodation by those who cannot really afford to book a room for an overnight halt or even couple of days. It is simply unthinkable to bar people from IR platforms. Airports can implement such strict protocols because the travelers have the means.

[Bade]

They would need to install such measures when the HSR comes into being a few decades from now. Airport like security check area, luggage screening and platforms made into tightly access controlled glass cubes.

[Theo_Fidel]

Well…

In the long run all trains will become chair cars.
Internationally sleepers are almost extinct, except due to distance for instance in NA.
Once sped up trains can get to their destination in a few hours vs a few days as at present.

This business of transporting entire ghar/veedu with cooked meals for 20 for 5 days will not be possible.
People will be allowed only limited baggage as airlines allow.

The main reason is that sleepers are very expensive, meaning very inefficient use of resources.
Excessive luggage is also very expensive for railways to transport in fuel and wear and tear costs.

While a single 2nd class sleeper seats 72 folks the same chair car can seat 150+ in the same area.
It is impossible to build a modern railway with majority sleepers.
These changes are inevitable over time.

[chaanakya]

They would need to install such measures when the HSR comes into being a few decades from now. Airport like security check area, luggage screening and platforms made into tightly access controlled glass cubes.

I have not seen these concepts deployed in developed countries. May be in USA Mostly unobtrusive security is followed as far as other mode of mass transport is concerned. If you know any , point them out.

[Bade]

The inspiration for it was not that I had seen it elsewhere. If you are going to run HSR with limited stops on dedicated tracks and with dedicated stations, it is quite possible to include a level of security in line with air travel.

In the current setup for railways, it is nearly impossible to provide for this level of security and have to depend on providence for things to not go wrong, considering the security challenges.

[Singha]

A good example of that is the ambani owned delhi airport t3 metro link. Airport style stations and plane style trains with sliding glass doors on platform for 100% safety

[Supratik]

I think it will be fairly useless to compare India and China wrt who has the most railway and roadway kms as China is much bigger than India and will beat us eventually. IR should concentrate on first separating the passenger and freight on trunk routes as they are doing with DFC. Then replace tracks and signalling to run trains with higher speeds. On trunk routes multiply tracks 4 or 6 times. Run more Shatabdis and Rajdhani calibre trains. Upgrade Rajdhani-Shatabdi to European stds. Privatize all major railway stations as they have done with airports, rest upgrade like AAI. High-speed rail should be only a pvt initiative. Good thing is NM has railways on his mind.