Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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JohnTitor
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

RoyG wrote:If Nitish leaves he knows that Lalu backed by Congress will eventually chew him up. They will destroy his administration and make sure he never returns. Congress prefers a vassal, not a partner.

If Nitish stays his vote base will go to Modi. He knows this which would explain why he is causing so much noise. He just wants to keep himself relevant by playing the secular/communal card. At the end of the day, he will probably get his special status which just means more money in his pocket and a central government cabinet post in the event that NDA comes to power.
He does? You sure? Patients suffering from delusions of grandeur wrongly hold themselves at an extraordinary high status in their mind. vinasha kale vipareeta budhi.

Now everyone is goading NK into calling his bluff. I hope he does, hes now a liability.


-----

Meanwhile IHs are pissed off with NK..
Soul in Exile ‏@SoulInExile 6m
Dear Nitish, Pappu still looking for his own Manmohan. You have the experience, credentials & your visions match too. Send yr application!
:rotfl:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Benefits of throwing away RJB, Congress gets back its secularism stick to beat you with.
Ally puts BJP fault lines back in focus

New Delhi, April 14: Nitish Kumar has resurrected the fault lines in the BJP that Rajnath Singh desperately tried to cover with a de facto projection of Narendra Modi as the party’s presumptive prime ministerial candidate for 2014.

The BJP president’s strategy in foregrounding the Gujarat chief minister, albeit indirectly, was seen essentially as a response to the clamour from the ground to declare him as the frontline person in the post-Atal Bihari Vajpayee era.

Rajnath sidestepped the other thorny issues arising out of Modi’s projection that included the competing ambitions of the BJP brass and potential objections from the NDA.

BJP sources conceded that Nitish’s comprehensive critique of Modi, covering every aspect of the debate around him, was a “timely reality check”, although nobody spoken to was prepared to state at this stage who the leaders would choose: Modi or the Bihar chief minister.

The top leaders — who looked unsettled on stage when Rajnath extolled Modi at the BJP national council in February — prevaricated like Rajya Sabha Opposition leader Arun Jaitley did when a journalist went up to him.

Those down the hierarchy did not.

Uttar Pradesh leader Kalraj Mishra said Nitish had no business dictating terms to the BJP, while Bihar minister Giriraj Singh contended that an individual could not be singled out in a party and dubbed “communal” or “secular”.

In Chhapra, general secretary Rajiv Pratap Rudy rued the tendency of “regional” outfits to set conditions to national parties without naming Nitish’s Janata Dal (United).

Late in the evening, the BJP issued a release, defending Modi against Nitish’s allegations and regretting the propensity of “Opposition parties and allies” to “dilute the focus on removing the UPA”.

The statement, a source said, was “unanimous” and had been drafted after a meeting attended by senior leaders at L.K. Advani’s residence.

The emphasis on Advani was ostensibly meant to dispel speculation that he was on Nitish’s “side” in the Bihar leader’s anti-Modi offensive.


The release said: “The need of the hour is to defeat the non-performing and corrupt UPA. The Congress-led UPA government is leading this country on a downslide in every field. The BJP expects Opposition parties and allies to keep their main focus on that. However, it is unfortunate if they concentrate their energies on our chief ministers…. We reject all unfounded inferences against Shri Narendra Modi.”

There were hints of how the BJP’s internal power play was at work in the reactions that came in. A senior MP said: “Those who are being evasive nurse ambitions for themselves. By chance, if the BJP emerges as the largest party but without a consensus on Modi’s candidacy, these leaders fancy themselves as more acceptable because of their supposed secular antecedents.”

The MP said those like Mishra, whose stakes were confined to a state, reflected the “feelings” of the cadre and the “inability” of the Delhi cabal to “read the writing on the wall”.

Nitish’s pot-shots at Modi came as a handy ruse to the Delhi coterie. Summing up the BJP’s dilemma, a source close to one of the Delhi bigwigs argued: “Can we jettison the Dal (U)? No, the consequences will be serious. Today, with or without Modi, nobody can claim the BJP will get a majority on its own. Sure, there is a positive groundswell for Modi in the cities and towns. But we have to ask, ‘are we positioned to convert the sentiment into votes’? Perhaps we are. But what about villages and kasbas that vote in big numbers?”

If the Dal (U) walked out, this source feared, the perceived pro-BJP “build-up” among floating voters might peter out simply because the BJP would be seen as a “weak” nucleus of a possible anti-Congress coalition.

Nitish revived the debate on what would serve the BJP better: less dependence on the allies and more reliance on its own cachets that include Modi, or spreading the net by catching more allies and humouring the existing ones?

Last night, hope flickered briefly in the BJP when Nitish made back-to-back calls on his old friend, Jaitley, and then Rajnath. Sources claimed the Bihar leader told Rajnath his “rhetoric” on pro-minorityism and inclusion was pushed by state compulsions.

Rajnath replied that even the BJP had its political imperatives but hinted that it did not intend unveiling its Prime Minister candidate yet.

The opening speech of Dal (U) president Sharad Yadav today sounded “appropriately conciliatory” to the BJP. Nitish’s attacks on Modi dampened the mood, a source said.

The BJP’s main carp is at a time when the NDA ought to “unitedly” take on the UPA on issues like corruption and price rise and serve itself up as the alternative, Nitish was deflecting attention on Modi.

“It’s as though Modi is the issue for 2014. Nitish’s strategy might fetch for him Muslim votes in Bihar. But on the national canvas, it looks like he is bent on consolidating the minority votes for the Congress by harping on Modi. He has as good as abandoned the NDA,” a source said.

The question is who will cast the first stone: Nitish or the BJP?

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130415/j ... Ws1ZhKYNok
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

LKA needs to openly say he wants to be PM nominee and that owing to health concerns he'll step down after 1 year in office, should NDA win. NM will be Dy PM (and HM and raksha mantri and agri mantri) during that year and will take over thereafter should the party so decide. That should calm everyone down. For now. Perhaps.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

What compulsions in the state are driving him to become more talib than the real talib? So far i am yet to hear any report of bihari muslims making this a huge issue or any issue.....i am sure smart voters will vote on nitishs work in bihar than on who gets to be pm in the distant event of a nda govt.

Nitish is trying to manufacture a brownie point with the mullah coterie where there is none. He should work for the state rather than raise these fake congressi issues.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by suryag »

NaMo for Dy.PM with finance/home/defence ministries under him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Modi as a 'backward leader', Nitish as an upper caste 'hero'

One Bihar party leader went one step further to insist: “Nitish is afraid of Narendra Modi because it is for the first time a national party has projected an OBC leader as the prime ministerial candidate. In fact, this is rattling all the leaders championing social justice.”

http://m.indianexpress.com/news/modi-as ... o/1102578/
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

I have seen the JDU leaders talking on Tv yesterday and almost all of them are not so keen even to talk. Nitish has forced this division on Bihar. Now he has to be tought a lesson.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^Forget a split in BJP, the real split will be in JDU. Fun times of nitish ahead. I also think this tantrum he is pulling is solidifying Mr. Modi's PM in waiting position, by forcing the BJP's hand.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Rumors are that BJP may withdraw its ministers from the Bihar cabinet. The Rajnath meetup with the BJP state leadership in Delhi today is a pointer to that. I for one hope the rumors are true.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

If Nitish splits from NDA and Lalu returns to Bihar as a result. Then it will be nothing short of a disaster for the Nation. Because, for one, the Dwarka- Magadh Axis will be still born. As will be any hope of reviving the economy of Bihar.

Not only that, Nitish cannot win without the BJP. So just what is his game. Has he lost his mind?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by kmkraoind »

What if Congress accidents Lalu, so that NK does not have to face a formidable foe in Bihar, and let NK sabotage the BJP prospects in Bihar.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

or maybe Lalu and NK can come together in a grand alliance to "keep communal forces out of power"
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vinod Ji »

Is not a third front better for BJP as sekulr votes will be divided? Just a thought to chew on!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Nitish will have anti encumbacy and division of BJP votes hiting him where are Lalu+INC+paswan will be more confident and hopeful of victory. Nitish has nothing to gain from his stupidity. BJP has better it rate and got better % of votes than JD(U) in the last assembly elections. It has good leaders who can contest for LokAsbha elections 2014 and win. Sharad Yadav is not even from Bihar ( he is from MP - Jabalpur). I now remember how they have treated George Fernandez also.

It is stupid for Nitish to pick a fight for BJP and it will be very costly for him and in the end Bihar if Lalu comes back.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by JohnTitor »

Hari Seldon wrote:LKA needs to openly say he wants to be PM nominee and that owing to health concerns he'll step down after 1 year in office, should NDA win. NM will be Dy PM (and HM and raksha mantri and agri mantri) during that year and will take over thereafter should the party so decide. That should calm everyone down. For now. Perhaps.
No way. Crazy idea. No man in power ever relinquishes it on his own - history has shown this time an again. Be it the 10000 year old DMK dude who thinks its cool to wear sunglasses indoor or saddam, gadaffi, mubarak and assad. If BJP wins and NaMo isn't made PM then it will be the end of BJP because the only reason people who converted from congress to BJP would be the modi factor. This backlash would make even hardcore BJP voters think twice before voting for them again (in 2019/assembly elections). LKA had his time, but that time has passed. He needs to move on. BJP needs to make him move on, if they want their party to have a future.
Narayana Rao wrote:I have seen the JDU leaders talking on Tv yesterday and almost all of them are not so keen even to talk. Nitish has forced this division on Bihar. Now he has to be tought a lesson.
+1 I hope he is kicked out of his party. His power has blinded him and he is taking his ship down with him. muslims wont vote for him just because he says he is secular. At the time of godhra, he was the railway minister, he didn't even resign - paswan did. If I who knows little about bihar can figure this out, so can the votebank.
Pratyush wrote:If Nitish splits from NDA and Lalu returns to Bihar as a result. Then it will be nothing short of a disaster for the Nation. Because, for one, the Dwarka- Magadh Axis will be still born. As will be any hope of reviving the economy of Bihar.

Not only that, Nitish cannot win without the BJP. So just what is his game. Has he lost his mind?
Pray tell - what is this Dwarka-Magadh axis? Very curious sir
Last edited by JohnTitor on 15 Apr 2013 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

I think it was projected as a alliance of the rohirim and gondor with their own sets of regional allied tribes to take down mordor sultanate.

I wonder of the congis have some real dirt on NK and his immediate circle and are threatening him to find some excuse to break out of NDA or else face a extended stay in jail?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

I am coming around to the view of Advani as PM and Modi as deputy PM with charge of important portfolios and running the show and taking over in 2-3 yrs on Advani's age grounds. The reason is with uncertainty in UP, and the possibility of NDA sweeping BH, those 40 seats will be crucial. I hope Advani is sane enough to resign after 2-3 yrs and not hold on like Vajpayee who had poor health in the latter part of his PMship. But NM should be running the show.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Supratik wrote:I am coming around to the view of Advani as PM and Modi as deputy PM with charge of important portfolios and running the show and taking over in 2-3 yrs on Advani's age grounds. The reason is with uncertainty in UP, and the possibility of NDA sweeping BH, those 40 seats will be crucial. I hope Advani is sane enough to resign after 2-3 yrs and not hold on like Vajpayee who had poor health in the latter part of his PMship. But NM should be running the show.
Don't even think about it. It will be another RJB type "Taain Taain fiss". There should be zero tolerance for Nehruvian residues in BJP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

To say this truth, this whole niku episode has made me more certain of Mr. Modi's hold on the party. The BJP had to take such a hard stance this early, with no hint of even considering keeping out Mr. Modi from the PM post. Kind of gives you a hint of what Mr. Modi's real status is in the party. I think he is much far ahead in the game of grabbing power than we think.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Advani as PM candidate will result BJP around or even less than 100. His time has come and gone. Nation is not looking for him and he can not motivate the party workers and voters. He shall make a statement that due to age he is no longer interested to be as PM candidate and in two or three monthsmake NaMo chairman of BJP election committee for 2014 parliament elections. With these two steps the path will be clear.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20292 »

I dont think that Advani as PM would be such a bad idea.

But deal is this. NaMo has the strongest clamour going for him at this hour.

Most probably this will happen; Namo Projected as PM, Nitish gets out of NDA, mops up more Muslim votes, (secret collusion and seat arrangements in Bihar between JD(U) and BJP...even if JDU is out of NDA in 2014) ....gets back into govt. on condition that Advani is PM and not NaMo.

NaMo is star home minister. Cant keep him down for long.

One year later, Advaniji finally listens to the clamour...thinks of his age (85+) and NaMo is PM.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

Advani who? will be how most people in 20s will react.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Advani+NaMo can successfully replicate the ABV+Advani model.

It would be win-win, and the next elections for NaMo's to lose.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

mahadevbhu wrote:secret collusion and seat arrangements in Bihar between JD(U) and BJP..
Such secret collusion is not possible. BJP voters will not vote for Nitish in areas where both have candidates, and vice versa.

Further, if they do not put up candidates against each other, then its obvious seat sharing, not collusion.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

No, you have to be Krishna in battle not Abhimanyu if you want to win. Advani as PM, deputy PM NM. Announce upfront that NM will be deputy PM so that he can lead the campaign. He will connect with people in the 20s. Even Advani knew that Vajpayee had better chance and made way for him. NM is still in his early 60s. He still has time. The coalition in BH is important given the geographical limitation of BJP and the uncertainty in UP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Projecting advani means bjp is over. If bjp is so desperate to save alliance in bihar, better to just go to polls with no pm nominee and make modi the star campaigner
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

`NM will come out and say "I don't want to be PM, merely deputy PM", do the "sacrifice play" and grab the sympathy vote. For his part LKA will say, my health may not permit me to complete full term perhaps...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by James B »

The shallow secularism of Nitish Kumar is a farce
Yesterday, Nitish Kumar made his famous “topi aur tilak” reference – one representing Muslims and the other Hindus. The Indian Express quotes him as saying: “Sometimes you will have to wear a cap, sometimes you will have to sport a tilak.” The obvious innuendo is to Modi’s reported unwillingness to wear the Muslim skull cap offered to him by a minority delegation to his 2011 “Sadhbhavna” fasts.

The “topi-tilak” reference is a pathetic one. That in the 66th year of independence we cannot think of secularism as anything above “symbolism” is ominous. It implies that Muslims are more concerned about someone pretending to wear a “topi” than more substantive issues. In our entire existence as an independent nation, our “secular” leaders have been doing nothing but this: pretend to help the minorities while actually doing nothing on the ground for them. They have been running a protection racket for the minorities, and Kumar now joins the crowd.

The joke, in fact, is on Kumar. The Hindi expression “kisiko topi pehnana” means making a fool of somebody. This is exactly what our secularists have been doing – fooling the Muslim minorities by promising them everything but good education, better jobs and integration into the mainstream.

Consider all the implications of the “topi-tilak” metaphor and how it is actually demeaning to secularism.

One, even if secularism is about symbolism, surely it cannot be one-sided. How many minority leaders have been sporting the “tilak”? Have we seen Omar Abdullah with a “tilak” or even a Mayawati with one? Which Kerala minority leader is into any kind of symbolic wooing? In fact, the strength of the Kerala model is the “salad bowl” approach of the political parties there, where each community keeps its own symbols, and joins together in a coalition. Is it only the so-called Hindu leader who has to prove his secular credentials by wearing a topi?

Two, if identity is a matter of personal choice, as Amartya Sen keeps reminding us, why is it important for Modi to prove a point by wearing a skull-cap? Assuming he does wear a skull-cap, does that make him instantly secular? Why is he not entitled to decide his own identity? Why should he pretend to be a multi-identity person hypocritically, never mind his personal convictions?

Three, secularism is about not being bigoted, and about not discriminating against any community in official policy (among other things). If Nitish Kumar’s definition is valid, then we should consider the French to be communal for they have banned every religious symbol from public life – no crosses, no headscarves, no turbans even for Sikhs. We should even call the Irish communal, for they managed to apply their own religion-influenced anti-abortion law on a pregnant Indian immigrant and killed her.

Four, is Nitish Kumar’s secularism only skin deep? He may not like Modi, but surely he is close to LK Advani, who is the original creator of the Hindutva wave which ended with the Babri demolition. Nitish even flagged off Advani’s anti-corruption yatra. So what is this selective targeting of “communal” Modi about beyond a clash of political ambitions?

Five, in India we define bigotry too narrowly to include only Hindu communalism. Caste-based communalism is not considered, unless this is to target upper caste bigotry. Thus, a Congress party can ally with parties that are purely Muslim – Indian Union Muslim League, Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen – and not be called communal. A Samajwadi Party can align with all kinds of mullahs and base its vote on Yadavs, but it is not communal. The DMK can oppress Dalits in Tamil Nadu, but it will not be called communal. Every party in the Kerala coalition represents a separate community – Muslims, Christians, Nairs, Ezhavas – but it is not a communal coalition. The CPI(M) can kill Muslims in Nandigram, but it is not communal. Nitish Kumar has validated this kind of nonsense.
http://www.firstpost.com/india/the-shal ... 99007.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Hari Seldon wrote:`NM will come out and say "I don't want to be PM, merely deputy PM", do the "sacrifice play" and grab the sympathy vote. For his part LKA will say, my health may not permit me to complete full term perhaps...
Sorry sir, full term or half term, lka should be allowed no where near the pm nominee post for 2014 period. Bjp has everything to lose with his projection. How many chances does he want. Either modi or go with no nominee, thats all
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

muraliravi wrote:Projecting advani means bjp is over. If bjp is so desperate to save alliance in bihar, better to just go to polls with no pm nominee and make modi the star campaigner

No, project Modi as deputy PM and keep Advani as PM. If there were 40 assured seats in UP then it would not be an issue. Take a piece of paper and do the math. BH is important for the NDA. 5 seats if BJP goes alone versus 38 seats in alliance i.e. 33 seats less.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

Or campaign with Modi in the lead but no official PM candidate but assure JD(U) that if NDA wins Advani will be PM and NM deputy PM.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Supratik wrote:I am coming around to the view of Advani as PM and Modi as deputy PM with charge of important portfolios and running the show and taking over in 2-3 yrs on Advani's age grounds. The reason is with uncertainty in UP, and the possibility of NDA sweeping BH, those 40 seats will be crucial. I hope Advani is sane enough to resign after 2-3 yrs and not hold on like Vajpayee who had poor health in the latter part of his PMship. But NM should be running the show.
mahadevbhu wrote:I dont think that Advani as PM would be such a bad idea.

But deal is this. NaMo has the strongest clamour going for him at this hour.

Most probably this will happen; Namo Projected as PM, Nitish gets out of NDA, mops up more Muslim votes, (secret collusion and seat arrangements in Bihar between JD(U) and BJP...even if JDU is out of NDA in 2014) ....gets back into govt. on condition that Advani is PM and not NaMo.

NaMo is star home minister. Cant keep him down for long.

One year later, Advaniji finally listens to the clamour...thinks of his age (85+) and NaMo is PM.
I don't mean to offend you gentlemen, but are you guys out of your mind? Sorry, there is no other response that came to my mind after reading these posts.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Supratik »

Chandragupta wrote:
I don't mean to offend you gentlemen, but are you guys out of your mind? Sorry, there is no other response that came to my mind after reading these posts.

No, we are being realistic. The NDA in its current form needs 200 seats to attract 70 allies (AIADMK, TDP, INLD, TRS, AGP, BJD).
Without BH, the math is not adding up. In BH if there is no alliance the BJP will at best get 5 seats.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Virendra »

The moment LKA steps down giving those age and health excuses to pave way for Modi, do we really think JD(U) will not walk out??
I don't believe it. They have a State's politics to look after.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Supratik wrote:Without BH, the math is not adding up. In BH if there is no alliance the BJP will at best get 5 seats.
Supratik, can you explain why ? Last time with the alliance BJP won 12 and JDU 20, out of a total of 40. Why do you think the BJP would drop to 5 without the alliance?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

a week of posturing and half the people have thrown their rifles down, abandoned the fwd line of trenches and are already coming up with installing a 86 year old bahadur shah zafar MKI as a interim raja in the hope of tiding over the war without a shot!

let there be churning and war...war is the beginning of all creation and great leaders have always been forged in war.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^Haha.. good one. DOubt anyopne would throw their rifles down when faced with enemy fire. But when its fiendly fire from behind your own lines..... and the war looks certain to be lost anyway...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by harbans »

Meanwhile, even though the poll was removed from site..the rest of the BJP/ INC put together cannot muster even a tenth of what NM has got here:

Who should be India's next PM
member_20292
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20292 »

^^^ and that website is down and out
James B
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by James B »

Locked