Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Sanku
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Arun Menon wrote:Mr. Sanku, you need not label anything against your point of view as silly or emotional. After all, politics is a LOT about emotions.
Only for the masses, not for the practitioners.

Also that article is labelled silly because it is.
1) It has tons of statements which do not stand up to basic scrutiny (claims that Nitish Kumar has taken Bihar to low levels :rotfl:) and
2) neither is the language chosen to inspire seriousness beggar is the word it used to describe people/state.

Rest it attempts to fill in through CTs insinuations and hyperbole.

This suits only Nidhi Razadan/Sagarika Ghose, people ostensibly supporting Modi should be on far firmer footing and not be mirror images of those guys. Those guys can get away with such behavior because they are part of entrenched power matrix, that is not the way of the challenger.
Your disregard for the same and missionary belief in the calculative horse trading politics is disturbing. Please look above the level of politics we have seen for a long time in India.
Which is how it is going to remain. The nature of politics since cave men organized tribes.

If I wish to indulge in uninformed emotional hyperventilating, I can go to rediff boards. On BRF, we would expect a more in-depth critical look at things.

And go easy on the emotions bit please.
Last edited by Sanku on 17 Apr 2013 16:46, edited 1 time in total.
Sanku
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

muraliravi wrote: Exactly. If sanku sir, ur so confident, why dont you support an internal poll within bjp with karyakartas as voters. Lets see how many go with modi and how many with advani for pm. Story over, why all this confusion
We will know in good time. What is the hurry? Let Modi start making space for himself in national executive right now. Its a long journey, and results are not guaranteed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

muraliravi wrote:
Gus wrote:err..muraliravi...pl go easy on the fonts and language.
sorry sir, by blood is boiling, i was always suspecting that bitch to be behind all the stuff against namo.
If this is the standard of support NaMo has, he is doomed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

Mr. Sanku, I think this time politics will involve more emotions than usual. What you say holds true for the last few elections and may be the default for Indian politics (and the world since cavemen), but things change and strange stuff happens from time to time. Your refusal to recognize this is what is aggravating to some posters. Maybe you should quit being the extreme foil of some of the extremists on the other side. Some times I get the feeling you enjoy being contrary and going against the current, is that true? :D
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Arun Menon wrote:Mr. Sanku, I think this time politics will involve more emotions than usual. What you say holds true for the last few elections and may be the default for Indian politics (and the world since cavemen), but things change and strange stuff happens from time to time. Your refusal to recognize this is what is aggravating to some posters. Maybe you should quit being the extreme foil of some of the extremists on the other side. Some times I get the feeling you enjoy being contrary and going against the current, is that true? :D
I intend to keep posting in a civil manner about how I see the reality of the world on the issues of interest to me. Thank you so much. If you have anything meaningful to discuss on the topic, barring me, kindly go ahead.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by James B »

Image
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/o ... 626918.ece

D4 is in full swing. SS which happen to be a long standing ally of BJP is also talking now. There is no option but to kick all useless Rajya Sabha people in BJP in A** and tell them to stop their games. Sangh may take a view soon on this. Useless Delhi gang of BJP has no administrative achivement to show and never seriously put UPA in trouble in the last 9 years. BJP failed to act a a serious opposition and failed in 2009 because fo that. Without new leadership it will be 3rd front in 2014.

Put D4 in frontline Lady won from Vidisha in 2009 and now she should be asked to contest from Ballery (ha ha ha) so that she can lose the elections. Jaitley - MLA for Delhi and projected as CM for Delhi. Anantha Kumar - Difficult for any useful work. LKA should be medically made to take rest a long one at that.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

Sanku wrote:
Arun Menon wrote:Mr. Sanku, I think this time politics will involve more emotions than usual. What you say holds true for the last few elections and may be the default for Indian politics (and the world since cavemen), but things change and strange stuff happens from time to time. Your refusal to recognize this is what is aggravating to some posters. Maybe you should quit being the extreme foil of some of the extremists on the other side. Some times I get the feeling you enjoy being contrary and going against the current, is that true? :D
I intend to keep posting in a civil manner about how I see the reality of the world on the issues of interest to me. Thank you so much. If you have anything meaningful to discuss on the topic, barring me, kindly go ahead.
^Oh my, did I come across as insulting? That wasn't my intention. Besides, I do not have the stamina to go one-on-one with you. Anyone who has been to the armor thread will testify to that. Also, I do not need your certificate for what is meaningful and what is not. Kindly keep that to yourself.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sri »

Sanku wrote: I intend to keep posting in a civil manner about how I see the reality of the world on the issues of interest to me. Thank you so much. If you have anything meaningful to discuss on the topic, barring me, kindly go ahead.
Sanku Ji, please don't take it personally. You are right though!!! May be NAMO will not be PM after all. Even though both of us would like that.

What should he do? Give up? Same way even though people like you and I who support him but see that his path to PM ship is full of pot holes and speed breakers, should do? Should we tone down our support or try harder in garnering support for him in whichever way we can? Or start thinking Chanakya and look for other options? Or should we vote for left instead?

Do tell sir.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

What is the percentage of rural and urban voters? Election commission data of past elections do not give information by those categories.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Sri wrote: Sanku Ji, please don't take it personally. You are right though!!! May be NAMO will not be PM after all. Even though both of us would like that.
Sri-ji; I am not talking anything you said personally. You are a very polite and informed poster. Why should I?
What should he do?
Do tell sir.
Sir, I do think that a head on battle does not make sense. It should be done through Advani, keep Advani in front, battle from behind, make incremental changes. The idea should to be to be in position of power and control, and slowly.

As individuals we can strongly support him, without calling for extreme steps like "NaMo or disband BJP" or necessarily bad mouthing people on the same side of the fence. Reasoned debates are order of the day.

BJP winning with NaMo in central position will automatically elevate him. There is no need to go for all or burst.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^I will be voting for BJP with or without Mr. Modi. Because they are the lesser evil as far as a Nationalist Hindu Indian is concerned. I do not believe in the NaMo or disband BJP nonsense either. But, for God's sake, he can get us votes, he can get us seats, and he can only do that well when people know HE will be in control. All this firing from someone else's shoulder might work for Advani, but not for Mr. Modi. It is not his style and it is not what people expect or want of him. Please don't try to make him into Advani 2.0, the people just aren't interested in that.

PS: I also know of congi voters who will vote for BJP with Mr. Modi in control, but not otherwise. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Arun Menon wrote: PS: I also know of congi voters who will vote for BJP with Mr. Modi in control, but not otherwise. Why is this so hard to understand?
That statement is not hard to understand, however there are active attempts to keep Modi down, for any number of reasons. JD(U) has its own (valid) concerns. It will also expose him to lot of unwanted fire.

So a tradeoff decision has to be taken, and these decisions need supporting data. Cant be made on gut feel.

BJP as an organization will and should have that supporting data.
All this firing from someone else's shoulder might work for Advani, but not for Mr. Modi. It is not his style and it is not what people expect or want of him.
This may not be his style, but like Atri ji said, a lot of mechanisms are used to get Yuddhister to the throne. The idea is to not throw you best card into the winds on a prayer and a hope.

That is the nature of politics, a straight forward Kesariya after drinking opium is gallant in the extreme, but we can not afford it anymore. We have no men to lose.

Shivaji tactics are what we need. (Atri-ji would say post Shivaji tactics)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^Would you go to the extent of saying that we need not play the Modi card this election, if things aren't looking up?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Sanku wrote:
Sri wrote: Sanku Ji, please don't take it personally. You are right though!!! May be NAMO will not be PM after all. Even though both of us would like that.
Sri-ji; I am not talking anything you said personally. You are a very polite and informed poster. Why should I?
What should he do?
Do tell sir.
Sir, I do think that a head on battle does not make sense. It should be done through Advani, keep Advani in front, battle from behind, make incremental changes. The idea should to be to be in position of power and control, and slowly.

As individuals we can strongly support him, without calling for extreme steps like "NaMo or disband BJP" or necessarily bad mouthing people on the same side of the fence. Reasoned debates are order of the day.

BJP winning with NaMo in central position will automatically elevate him. There is no need to go for all or burst.
I think all of us are on the same side the only difference is some want an out war - raze the building to the ground, others want to take apart the structures brick by brick.

My opinion is that Modi is an 'aandhi', you don't want to contain an aandhi, you unleash it. I want BJP to unleash the aandhi on Congress & Mainos and declare an aar paar ki ladai. Go aggressive, to the point of being militant, attack the Mainos & we will win.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^+1 Using Mr. Modi defensively is like using a tank as a bunker. It is such a waste. All this politicking has not worked in the past, why should it work now? Just because Modi is there? That wouldn't be playing to his strength.
Last edited by member_22539 on 17 Apr 2013 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Sanku wrote:
RajeshA wrote: In 1984, for example, we voted according to presidential rules. I think in 1999 too we voted according to presidential rules.
.
Only 1984 Sir, that was a wave. One of the few genuine waves. The other was in 88-91 time frame in RJB.

There was no wave in 1991.

Even then a wave is different from a presidential election, in a wave, people vote for a party, in a presidential case, people vote for leaders.

In 1984 RG was not even know, let alone a leader. Only as Indira's son. This is a big difference. India does not vote providentially at all.
In 1984 and 1991 I would consider that there was a sympathy wave for Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi respectively. I would put it also as a presidential rule of voting, as the wave were for these leaders, of course posthumously. In 1991 Congress did well in the constituencies where voting happened after Rajiv Gandhi's assassination.

If Rajiv Gandhi had not died then, BJP would have had a wave for it due to the RJB Andolan, as it of course did in 1989 where it went from 2 to 85 seats. Even in 1991 it went from 85 to 120. But in 1989, it was V.P. Singh who captured the imagination of the people with his move against Rajiv Gandhi on corruption, and so the wave for BJP also met with a wave for V.P. Singh. In 1989, VP Singh played an important role in the build up of the anti-Congress wave.

I do agree that waves can be both for parties as well as for leaders, but except for BJP, most other parties have been single-leader based, so wave in favor of a party was in fact a wave in favor of the leader.

So in the presidential rule of voting, I would consider when dynamic based on a national leader or a national cause sets in. The national cause can of course be carried by the whole party of course, as was the case with RJB, although LKA had prominence.

I would say there was neither a wave in 2004, nor was there any in 2009. Voting was done on local considerations and people voted more or less for the candidate. So it was according to the parliamentary rule of voting.

Now the issue is that people in India seem to have turned against the INC, but this anti-incumbency and dissatisfaction can be used by all parties. All regional parties would gain a bit from it. So too would BJP. But that is hardly a BJP-generated wave that would change the fortunes of BJP.

Sure waves can be created on some causes as well, but is BJP leadership doing that? Is some wave in view based only on that?

I think not! It is all politics as usual.

If BJP wants to generate a wave then Narendra Modi needs to take the helm. He has successfully been able to sell himself as the very antithesis of Congress-led corruption, economic decline and collapse of governance. He is offering people a cure for their despondency in the current setup and they are reacting positively to his message as it is based on genuine success in Gujarat and promise he can underline based on his experience.

It is the size of the despondency and people's hunger for a cure that is creating the NaMo Wave!

It is this wave that brings in the presidential rule of voting! Different dynamics! More people would vote for Modi than for the BJP candidate.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Sanku wrote:
Arun Menon wrote: PS: I also know of congi voters who will vote for BJP with Mr. Modi in control, but not otherwise. Why is this so hard to understand?
JD(U) has its own (valid) concerns. It will also expose him to lot of unwanted fire.
Sanku ji, you might want to clarify what you mean by JDU Nitish Kumar having 'valid' concerns. Perhaps you want to say that JDU is afraid of Modi bringing down the C-system & ending the pseudo secular discourse of politics & exposing Nitish Kumar's brand of politics - which happens to be not very different from INC & RJD - caste, religion, appeasement, vote bank, nothing new.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

BJP has proven to be utterly incompetent. Time to put both INC and BJP out of misery. Yeah there have been leaders in BOTH parties who have worked hard for the country, past is past. We can thank all people who worked for the country, time to move on.

Reminds me the controversy in the Chola empire. People wanted Arulmozivarma to be the King, however he stepped aside for his uncle Uththamma Chola, because his uncle wanted to be the King. Long ago Uththamma was to be the King, but he was too young so his uncle became the King. Sounds like Mahabharata, right? To me Advani is the Uththamma Chozha of our times. Enough, I say. Give way to younger princes. Time to take political sanyasam.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Chandragupta wrote: I think all of us are on the same side the only difference is some want an out war - raze the building to the ground, others want to take apart the structures brick by brick.

My opinion is that Modi is an 'aandhi', you don't want to contain an aandhi, you unleash it. I want BJP to unleash the aandhi on Congress & Mainos and declare an aar paar ki ladai. Go aggressive, to the point of being militant, attack the Mainos & we will win.
The sooner we realize that we are not all on the same side the better it will be for us.

At the age of 85, Advani has become a tool of Jehadis, EJs, Congies and Commies. He lives in fear of Maino and lust for the throne. After he dies, the same forces will find some other tool to use against the people of India.

BJP has been a fake opposition for the past 9 years.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Sanku Maharaj

Are you telling us that Bihar under NiKu is not in the hands of EJ/Secular/Jihadi forces even after watching his idiotic political games? And how do you know LKA and SS etc are not compromised even after their abysmal performance past 9 years, corruption charges (Macau islands) against them and the corrupt politics they played in Karnataka?

What nonsense is this? Why should BJP burn it's house to save NiKu who is obviously batting for those very secular forces?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Nitish Kumar has leaned far too much out of the bus window, so BJP can't really avoid making him a casualty.

If NiKu becomes a casualty, what is left as a reason for BJP not to announce Modi as the PM candidate except as tactical delay to maximize demand.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Chandragupta wrote: I think all of us are on the same side the only difference is some want an out war - raze the building to the ground, others want to take apart the structures brick by brick.
Sir-ji; I assure you, my own instincts are completely with the "raze it" crowd, I do not advocate brick by brick approach because I "want" it, but because that in my view is informed pragmatism, i.e. the only option that is available.

That said;
My opinion is that Modi is an 'aandhi', you don't want to contain an aandhi, you unleash it. I want BJP to unleash the aandhi on Congress & Mainos and declare an aar paar ki ladai. Go aggressive, to the point of being militant, attack the Mainos & we will win.
BJP can very well unleash Modi in a aandhi, and that they must, however it does not necessarily mean projecting him as PM before the polls, the same can be achieved with plausible deniability.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by harbans »

The sooner we realize that we are not all on the same side the better it will be for us.
+1.
which happens to be not very different from INC & RJD - caste, religion, appeasement, vote bank, nothing new.
Lets not forget many make a living and killing on that front. We have people represent that faction here too itself quite openly in fact. NM appeals to many here and elsewhere though many will not be able to express it clearly because he does not seem to play by those rules that seem to be prevalent all over the political spectrum in India. There is a large section of people that believe that rather than honest, hard principled effort, horse trading and deal making work better. They do yes till a certain extent. But with their success also comes bankruptcy of idea, ethics, civility and the bottom line growth and development. If you will observe in the larger spectrum those that believe in that kind of politicking and effort, also give the short stick to developmental and governance issues. Rather once you start playing the wheeler/ dealer type of game, it's irritating when people raise governance or developmental issues. The issue also manifests in irritation when people press for higher GDP growth rates for the country etc. INC exemplifies it. There's a large section in India that still feels all this GDP growth showth is bull and they would rather pursue other pet issues. There are lots of regional groupings with leaders like these. NM is a great change from all that status quo that has cropped in.

NM brings to the table a lot now. Confidence in putting development and governance above all the time horse trade politics. Confidence in improving the justice system and clearing the massive backlog of cases. Better and effective justice mechanisms. Development of the NE states and other backward areas. NM with his experiences will develop teams and plans to change rotting status quos there. He enjoys doing that. He enjoys sharing and discussing these with the best around. With NM benchmarks in politiking are going to change. Law and Order is going to improve by magnitude. He will love and cherish the challenge to change India. I doubt anyone else is there with that sort of passion to drive that necessary change.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Song of Windbagianism.

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

RajeshA wrote:
If BJP wants to generate a wave then Narendra Modi needs to take the helm

It is this wave that brings in the presidential rule of voting! Different dynamics! More people would vote for Modi than for the BJP candidate.
So you agree, that so far there is no wave. That is fine, at least there is some common ground.

The question is, does BJP risk everything in projecting Modi in the hope that there will be a wave, or does it play conservatively in the fear that all or nothing is not a good gamble?

I think the answer will be given closer to the polls as the mood shapes up sharper, BJP and NDA will opt for the course which seeks to maximize the chances. Such decision will be based in terms of data from feedback from the ground level organization as well as independent validation.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Pranav wrote:
Chandragupta wrote: I think all of us are on the same side the only difference is some want an out war - raze the building to the ground, others want to take apart the structures brick by brick.

My opinion is that Modi is an 'aandhi', you don't want to contain an aandhi, you unleash it. I want BJP to unleash the aandhi on Congress & Mainos and declare an aar paar ki ladai. Go aggressive, to the point of being militant, attack the Mainos & we will win.
The sooner we realize that we are not all on the same side the better it will be for us.

At the age of 85, Advani has become a tool of Jehadis, EJs, Congies and Commies. He lives in fear of Maino and lust for the throne. After he dies, the same forces will find some other tool to use against the people of India.

BJP has been a fake opposition for the past 9 years.
My comment was not regarding Advani, but BRFites, who I suppose want a nationalist government at the helm. Of course, even that is a blanket statement & not completely true.

I'm very surprised that people want Advani to lead. Advani is a shadow of himself. Yes, he did great & was once the Hindu Hriday Samrat but now he is a fluttering old man who is lusting at the throne on somebody else's hard work.

If Advani is selected now as PM and even if NDA wins, I'm mortally scared of two things happening :

1. The C-system & Mainos will continue to thrive. The people who have a stake in the continuity of establishment (NK, SS, AK, SK, AJ?) will ensure the system is not dismantled by outsiders like Modi. And this is the reason why even if BJP doesn't declare a candidate, they are in the exact position where they will need a 'compromise' candidate like Advani to attract allies. No Modi means less seats and less seats means more allies & more allies means NO MODI.

Once Advani is the PM, it just DOES NOT matter what Modi is. HM, DM, FM, even Deputy PM. Modi WILL be ousted. There's just too much stake in the C-system & just too many people in BJP are compromised.

2. Modi or any outsider will never become PM. The pro-Modi cadre will lose steam following Advani's rule and come 2019, either the Congress will come back with Priyanka or NDA will come back with a 'safe' candidate. I doubt even SSC or Raman Singh will be allowed to come to centrestage. The power will be centralized in the hands of Delhi leaders.

In the long run, BJP will become synonymous with INC and will lose the trust of Nationalists & Hindus. The only thing that can change this is Modi & that's why he needs to be unleashed & put at the forefront.
Last edited by Chandragupta on 17 Apr 2013 18:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

RamaY wrote:Sanku Maharaj

Are you telling us that Bihar under NiKu is not in the hands of EJ/Secular/Jihadi forces even after watching his idiotic political games? And how do you know LKA and SS etc are not compromised even after their abysmal performance past 9 years, corruption charges (Macau islands) against them and the corrupt politics they played in Karnataka?

What nonsense is this? Why should BJP burn it's house to save NiKu who is obviously batting for those very secular forces?
RamaY ji, Bihar is out of the hands of those forces by a slender margin. A very slender margin, it involves a lot of taqqiya, show baazi and other things.

It is not UP, where a certain community can decide who forms the govt, but it can be that if people screw up. No point trying to be gama pehlwan when you are not ready for prime time.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Image

Can everybody see which i am seeing?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Chandragupta wrote:
If Advani is selected now as PM and even if NDA wins, I'm mortally scared of two things happening :
Look at Mega trends, at one point of time, ABV was the radical. Then came Advani and the rath yatra and the balance shifted, however ABV was put in front as ostensible middle ground. Now the same story is being played with Advani and Modi.

Advani (of the POTA/RJB fame) is now suddenly considered a moderate. :rotfl: and not strong enough.

In time Modi will also be considered moderate, of course there will be people pushing for the next generation of radical leader.

However net, net, the line is moving towards where we want it to move. So IMVHO your fears are unfounded.

-------------------------------------

Nitish Kumar needs to do taquiya to ensure that consolidation does not happen. It is important.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Yeah, methinks the dhaga could do with a reset and a break. Ramana garu could lock this and start a new one after a cool-down perhaps? Anyway, moi shall go slow here a while at least. Things are getting repetitive quite a bit.

BTW, can't see why folks zimbly *have* to "persuade" sanku only. Give it a rest, I say. He has his conisdered opinion, fine. We have ours. Yawn and move on.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by manju »

Hari Seldon wrote:Yeah, methinks the dhaga could do with a reset and a break. Ramana garu could lock this and start a new one after a cool-down perhaps? Anyway, moi shall go slow here a while at least. Things are getting repetitive quite a bit.

BTW, can't see why folks zimbly *have* to "persuade" sanku only. Give it a rest, I say. He has his conisdered opinion, fine. We have ours. Yawn and move on.
Agree with Harigaru!

It is really boring to see the same arguments repeated endlessly..
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Sanku wrote:So you agree, that so far there is no wave. That is fine, at least there is some common ground.
I think for India at large, SRCC Speech was Narendra Modi's "coming out" party. Till then I think not many people outside Gujarat were looking at Modi beyond that what was projected on MSM, except of course the BJP cadre.

After his third win in Gujarat Elections, he became a potential candidate for the top job, so now the people watching him, were watching not as small time CM with a few nice ideas, but the vision of a potential PM candidate, and they liked what they saw.

That was Feb 06, 2013, just about two months ago!

So we need to give it some time. Let the wave grow!
Sanku wrote:The question is, does BJP risk everything in projecting Modi in the hope that there will be a wave, or does it play conservatively in the fear that all or nothing is not a good gamble?

I think the answer will be given closer to the polls as the mood shapes up sharper, BJP and NDA will opt for the course which seeks to maximize the chances. Such decision will be based in terms of data from feedback from the ground level organization as well as independent validation.
BJP can of course play conservatively, but wouldn't that be a repeat of 2009. Sure this time there can be some more NDA seats coming into the kitty from AIADMK, SS, INLD, TDP, BJD, AGP, etc.

But I do agree that it is possible that the whole NDA this time including TDP, AIADMK, BJD etc. can come up to around 260 seats. That is even without Modi.

Actually I think it is because of this reason, that Advani & Co. may not be willing to accept Modi. With Modi, NDA could go to around 300 perhaps even after losing NiKu.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Sushupti wrote:Image

Can everybody see which i am seeing?
Somebody should slap some sense in this lady's head. Can't win a panchayati election and wants to be the Prime Minister of India. Its all Maino's fault. Now that people have seen how nincompoops like MMS can be the PM, every langoor in every party wants to dream.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Atri »

Sanku wrote:This may not be his style, but like Atri ji said, a lot of mechanisms are used to get Yuddhister to the throne. The idea is to not throw you best card into the winds on a prayer and a hope.

That is the nature of politics, a straight forward Kesariya after drinking opium is gallant in the extreme, but we can not afford it anymore. We have no men to lose.

Shivaji tactics are what we need. (Atri-ji would say post Shivaji tactics)
Funny that you brought in Shivaji..

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 02#p911202

Indra gave Karna a shakti which was unanswerable (this is the impending global crisis post 2014). Now, no matter who, when this shakti is unleashed, no one, not even Shri Krishna with his sudarshana can withstand.. Whole point of MBH was to put Yudhishthira on throne and bring about systemic changes in the way Dharma functioned (or malfunctioned). The global players (DIEnasty included) have screwed up the economy, created shitloads of debt and this is going to hit west back. They averted this in 2008 for time being. But signs are beginning to show in EU. One has to look at this Boston Blast from that perspective - to create a motive to start a new war and keep the "demand" going without people asking uncomfortable questions about where the money came from and where it went.. Most of EU nations are now printing money. They are in buffer and so far so good. But buffer is running out. Unless this dodgy debt is not settled, it is going to raise its ugly head. In other words, this is the Indra's Shakti. No Tod...

Now, I do not know whether NM is the Yudhishthira who will bring about change OR whether he is the Arjuna who is shielding the real Yudhishthira. But whoever he is, he is not expendable as Ghatotkacha.. It is possible that the real Yudhishthira has not even arrived on national scene yet. But battle waits for none. DIEnasty has played its role in creating similar situation in India - Thanks to NREGA, multiple scams all over (koi ginti nahi), other free-loading schemes, appeasement politics. We have our own dodgy debt which will raise its head.

He who is in power will incur the wrath of people when Indra's shakti strikes. Couple that with Jihadis from AFPAK pouring in J&K and rest of India after USA decreases its presence from AFG and taliban enters in agreement with kabul - they will be doing what they do best. Brace for multiple exploding pressure-cookers, multiple Owaisi like speeches and multiple Azad-Maidan like rallies and multiple Assam like cleansings.

Now, all this is bad karma of DIEnasty and their international handlers. Indic janta is only beginning to realize how they have been taken for a ride by DIEnasty. It will dawn upon them even more then. I want DIEnasty to be in power and seen responsible for this mess by Janta. If NM is in power (or even NDA), this rage will be of no use - it will cancel itself out. I do not want that wave to cancel itself out. I have been saying this on forum for past 2-3 years. BJP does not want to be in power for some reason. It dawns upon me now that perhaps this is the reason. They are passing the parcel, because they can hear it ticking..

What if NM becomes a PM and then shakti strikes. True to his dharma, NM will take stringent steps, try and shield India (and I think he will do so successfully) bring economy back on track and then there is 2004 moment again where people pissed off due to stringent measures, vote NDA out and DIEnasty (or UPA) is back with its populist promises. IOW, most of NM's energy would be spent on fighting off this shakti and still remain standing to introduce systemic changes without loosing popular mandate and keeping allies together. OTOH, if he cannot withstand the shakti, then it will be doom for nationalists. Apeksha-Bhanga (disappointment) is one of those emotions which brings about bitterest responses.

If, OTOH, RahulG or his MMS is in power when shakti strikes, the wrath of people will be faced by DIEnasty. NM will come riding on this wrath-wave without public associating him with downfall and without needing to care about loosing public mandate, for he will be projected as repairman and not the one who broke the country. Public has short memory. They were praising MMS for his leadership when India was growing 9% forgetting the fact that it was ABV and his govt which brought economy on fast-track. MMS simply ate the fruits of tree sown and nurtured by ABV and squandered it off in 123, NREGA, scams and other stupid things..

If recession strikes before general elections in India, NDA should declare NM as PM candidate. If not, they should wait until it strikes and then declare NM for PM.. Meanwhile let him do what he is doing (giving speeches in various parts of India and forcing people to focus on real issues, presenting a contrast between GJ and rest of India). If recession does not strike before general elections, 2013-14, then find someone who will buy time and make sure DIEnasty is weakened and yet is seen accountable for ill-deeds. I think 1996 like scenario will repeat itself and there will be elections within year or year and half after 2014.
Last edited by Atri on 17 Apr 2013 19:24, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sri »

Sanku wrote:
So you agree, that so far there is no wave. That is fine, at least there is some common ground.

The question is, does BJP risk everything in projecting Modi in the hope that there will be a wave, or does it play conservatively in the fear that all or nothing is not a good gamble?

I think the answer will be given closer to the polls as the mood shapes up sharper, BJP and NDA will opt for the course which seeks to maximize the chances. Such decision will be based in terms of data from feedback from the ground level organization as well as independent validation.
Nitish Kumar is a smart guy. He is taking a call purely as he understands is in his own interest. Off all the regional satraps he is the only one who has to share power with a national party. All others are in power independently. He has example of JJ, NP and Didi. He must be thinking that BJP is getting a free ride on his own performance and popularity.His cold calculation is that he doesn't need BJP anymore and hence he doesn't want to have any seat share arrangements with them. While breaking off with them he is making sure he hurts them where it hurts the most. On other hand he is driving a hard bargain with congress on 'Bihar Special Status issue'. He has long way to go for state elections. If Congress falls for his trap it will only give him more resources to do better for his state and take all the credit.

Good and Pure politics. I don't think he is league with anti nationals. He is good politicians and is trying to maximize his returns.

Of course Namo is caught in crossfire but I have a feeling that he must have discounted NK during the Bihar election time itself.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by munna »

Chandragupta wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Image

Can everybody see which i am seeing?
Somebody should slap some sense in this lady's head. Can't win a panchayati election and wants to be the Prime Minister of India. Its all Maino's fault. Now that people have seen how nincompoops like MMS can be the PM, every langoor in every party wants to dream.
Baaas!!! I know that Modi evokes some emotions but we should not belittle a phenomenal politician just because we want to. I am short on time hence pulling out text from wiki entry (I can vouch for the facts). By any standard she is a really competitive persona to lead the nation.
1) In 1977, she became the youngest ever Cabinet Minister in the country at 25 years of age.
2)In 1979, she became State President of Janata Party, Haryana State at the young age of 27.
3)Sushma Swaraj was the First woman Spokesperson of a national political party in India.
4)She has many firsts to her credit as BJPs first woman Chief Minister, Union Cabinet Minister, General Secretary, Spokesperson and Leader of Opposition.
5)She is Indian Parliament's first and the only woman MP honored with the Outstanding Parliamentarian Award.
6)She has contested 10 direct elections from four states.
7) She has been a Member of Parliament/legislator for 30 long years.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by merlin »

I see absolutely no qualities in her that makes me feel that she can run a nation.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RajeshA »

Atri garu,

NaMo brought Gujarat back after the Earthquake! NaMo says he knows how to fill up the potholes!

Yes there is going to be a train-crash because INC has cut the breaks, but who else can stop the train.



:mrgreen:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Gus »

Hari Seldon wrote:
BTW, can't see why folks zimbly *have* to "persuade" sanku only.
oh..thats easy...changing that considered opinion. just switch to his opinion and in a short while he will take the contrarion one..
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