Atri wrote:Sanku wrote:This may not be his style, but like Atri ji said, a lot of mechanisms are used to get Yuddhister to the throne. The idea is to not throw you best card into the winds on a prayer and a hope.
That is the nature of politics, a straight forward Kesariya after drinking opium is gallant in the extreme, but we can not afford it anymore. We have no men to lose.
Shivaji tactics are what we need. (Atri-ji would say post Shivaji tactics)
Funny that you brought in Shivaji..
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 02#p911202
Indra gave Karna a shakti which was unanswerable (this is the impending global crisis post 2014). Now, no matter who, when this shakti is unleashed, no one, not even Shri Krishna with his sudarshana can withstand.. Whole point of MBH was to put Yudhishthira on throne and bring about systemic changes in the way Dharma functioned (or malfunctioned). The global players (DIEnasty included) have screwed up the economy, created shitloads of debt and this is going to hit west back. They averted this in 2008 for time being. But signs are beginning to show in EU. One has to look at this Boston Blast from that perspective - to create a motive to start a new war and keep the "demand" going without people asking uncomfortable questions about where the money came from and where it went.. Most of EU nations are now printing money. They are in buffer and so far so good. But buffer is running out. Unless this dodgy debt is not settled, it is going to raise its ugly head. In other words, this is the Indra's Shakti. No Tod...
Now, I do not know whether NM is the Yudhishthira who will bring about change OR whether he is the Arjuna who is shielding the real Yudhishthira. But whoever he is, he is not expendable as Ghatotkacha.. It is possible that the real Yudhishthira has not even arrived on national scene yet. But battle waits for none. DIEnasty has played its role in creating similar situation in India - Thanks to NREGA, multiple scams all over (koi ginti nahi), other free-loading schemes, appeasement politics. We have our own dodgy debt which will raise its head.
He who is in power will incur the wrath of people when Indra's shakti strikes. Couple that with Jihadis from AFPAK pouring in J&K and rest of India after USA decreases its presence from AFG and taliban enters in agreement with kabul - they will be doing what they do best. Brace for multiple exploding pressure-cookers, multiple Owaisi like speeches and multiple Azad-Maidan like rallies and multiple Assam like cleansings.
Now, all this is bad karma of DIEnasty and their international handlers. Indic janta is only beginning to realize how they have been taken for a ride by DIEnasty. It will dawn upon them even more then. I want DIEnasty to be in power and seen responsible for this mess by Janta. If NM is in power (or even NDA), this rage will be of no use - it will cancel itself out. I do not want that wave to cancel itself out. I have been saying this on forum for past 2-3 years. BJP does not want to be in power for some reason. It dawns upon me now that perhaps this is the reason. They are passing the parcel, because they can hear it ticking..
What if NM becomes a PM and then shakti strikes. True to his dharma, NM will take stringent steps, try and shield India (and I think he will do so successfully) bring economy back on track and then there is 2004 moment again where people pissed off due to stringent measures, vote NDA out and DIEnasty (or UPA) is back with its populist promises. IOW, most of NM's energy would be spent on fighting off this shakti and still remain standing to introduce systemic changes without loosing popular mandate and keeping allies together. OTOH, if he cannot withstand the shakti, then it will be doom for nationalists. Apeksha-Bhanga (disappointment) is one of those emotions which brings about bitterest responses.
If, OTOH, RahulG or his MMS is in power when shakti strikes, the wrath of people will be faced by DIEnasty. NM will come riding on this wrath-wave without public associating him with downfall and without needing to care about loosing public mandate, for he will be projected as repairman and not the one who broke the country. Public has short memory. They were praising MMS for his leadership when India was growing 9% forgetting the fact that it was ABV and his govt which brought economy on fast-track. MMS simply ate the fruits of tree sown and nurtured by ABV and squandered it off in 123, NREGA, scams and other stupid things..
If recession strikes before general elections in India, NDA should declare NM as PM candidate. If not, they should wait until it strikes and then declare NM for PM.. Meanwhile let him do what he is doing (giving speeches in various parts of India and forcing people to focus on real issues, presenting a contrast between GJ and rest of India). If recession does not strike before general elections, 2013-14, then find someone who will buy time and make sure DIEnasty is weakened and yet is seen accountable for ill-deeds. I think 1996 like scenario will repeat itself and there will be elections within year or year and half after 2014.
Saar ji,
IMHO, what you are saying is wrong at several levels. You are characterizing the potential threats as 'no tod'(invincible), I don't agree with this characterizing. There is always a 'tod', even the shakti had the 'tod': divert its use on someone expendable. So, everything has a 'tod'. All the threats that India and Hindus face have 'tods'. Modi is being supported by people hoping that he will find those 'tods' and minimize the loses. And if need be, Modi's career is put on firing line, to save the country and people. So, according to the scenario presented by you, if there is no other way out then Modi has to become the Ghatotkacha(i.e. risk his political career), to save the desh.
What you are saying is that people need to experience worse before they are prepared for the better. This kind of thinking, I believe, is really really wrong. I am reminded of a story where the king is asked to decide who is the mother of the child. Two women claim to be the mothers of the same child and the courtroom is at loss of finding out who is the actual mother. The king declares that both women will get the child and for this the child will but cut into two halves, and one half will go to each woman. This declaration forces the real mother to say that she rather have her child live(even if the child is estranged from her) than die(and she gets a half part of his body). What is the difference between fake mother and real mother, if both of them had agreed to cutting the child into two pieces? Similarly, what kind of thinking is it to want one's own people to suffer(whatever the reason maybe)? I can understand someone saying it in frustration or anger, but to bandy it as a strategy!!! That is plain wrong.
This so-called strategy is based on the formula that 'things have to go bad, before they get better'. But, this is not some universal truth. Prevention is always better than cure(in many ways). So, one must always try to prevent(until the very last). One does not have to let the things go bad. Next, things are already pretty bad. People are already fed up. And they are looking for a good leader. If Modi is such a leader, then let him stand up to occasion and deliver. If he is unable to do so, fine. But, atleast, let him try. The whole defeatist attitude even before he tries, is really baffling. The same applies to those who talk about Modi not being able to attract allies. As if Kongis had any allies before 2004! UPA was formed after the elections. It is a great thing that NDA has survived despite being in opposition for so long. But that does not mean parties give up their best leader to please some unreliable ally(who may jump ship anytime). The right way is to project the best leader, go full throttle, expose the corruptions and flaws of the present setup and propose solutions. Then the ball is in people's court. Either way, one has done one's job. That is the message of gita: Karmani eva adhikarah te, ma phaleshu kadachana(you have authority only on actions, never in the results). No one can guarantee results. No one knows what is stored for tomorrow. Any thing, literally anything, may happen any second. All that one has in one's hands is to do the best that one can. Thats all. The results are a pretty complex thing. It is simply impossible to calculate the affects of any action. Otherwise, there would have already been super-computers predicting the future. It is not possible because the results are simply unpredictable and can vary on the slightest remotest factor. And no individual or group has control on all the factors that affect a result. So, everyone is taking a risk of failure whenever they attempt anything, anything! So, what to do in such circumstances? Karmani eva adhikarah te, ma phaleshu kadachana. Thats all.
You are also making another mistake in assuming that things will always get better after they have gone bad. This is a false assumption. India and Hindus are very lucky that even when things went really bad, they survived. That does not mean, that things always get better after they have gone bad. Look at so many other cultures and countries in the past and present! They have just gone bad and from there to worse. So, things don't get better just because they have gone bad. There is no limit to degradation. One can keep degrading. It is like a bottomless pit... There is no way to bounce back. So, it is imperative that things are set right before it is too late. The dienasty and other assorted foreign chamchas will jump the ship(many of them already consider themselves as foreign). So, they lose nothing. Even if they lose something and in the process, the desh is irretrievably damaged, then what is the use? Is it a consolation?
I think that now is the critical time to save the desh. Another term of this kind of disastrous governance can have serious impact on desh for generations. It will also weaken the desh in its fight against the jihadi and EJ. Already the last 10 years have done a tremendous damage.
There is a limit to how much pain a body can take. Beyond a certain limit, the body will die. The same applies to the culture, civilization and country. Indian and Hindu culture, civilization and country have shown tremendous resolve and have survived(by fighting back) for ages against different kinds of threats. But, that does not mean one willfully wishes more pain on the body, especially when it is weak, emaciated and diseased. If there is a poisoned organ that needs to be removed, it needs to be done is a surgical fashion. Not in the manner of a butcher...
Anyway, the threats will never cease. This will keep on going. One is neutralized, another pops up. Malsi is not going to last forever. It will be the neutralized or it will mutate, then something new will be born. When that is gone, something else will come up. It is an eternal struggle: deva asura sangrama...
Each generation has to do what they can do. Thats all. There are no permanent threats or permanent solutions. Today, Modi is seen as the solution to the problems, so he is being supported and encouraged. Trying to shield Modi(his political career) is counter-productive. One need not shield Modi(his political career). One needs to shield the desh.
Karna with Shakti weapon is much lesser threat than Karna with Kavacha(armor) and Kundala. Karna traded Kavacha and Kundala for the weapon. And he was foretold that Arjuna is invincible and Krishna is the God. No shakti can do anything to them. Still, Karna decided to try it out. He did not simply accept the defeat. He decided to try his best and if he still failed so be it. Karna gave a great account of himself in the final battle and is still remembered today as a great warrior. That is all one has to do, do one's job to the best of one's ability, if one still loses, then there is no shame in it. But to start out with a defeatist mindset is a total no no.
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Loh purush was the one around whom people rallied in the 90s. Now, its Modi, tomorrow someone else will come. When a thing is not used in the right time, then it becomes negative. Alasyam amritam visham. A nourishing dish will rot and become uneatable after some time. Similarly, leaders or ideologies, are not evergreen. They have a shelf life and have to be used when they are useful. If they are not used at the right time and instead are used in the wrong time, they play a negative role. Loh purush should have become the PM, it was he who won the seats for the party. But, he could not. Now, he is playing the negative role. If Modi does not get his chance, then in the same manner modi will also become a negative for some future leader.
Loh purush has been in contact with the salt water for too long and has become brittle. He was taking up the Hindutva cause when everyone was enamored(or perceived as) enamored by the nehruvian secularism and socialism. But given his formative years, he is bound to have limitations. I think Negi saar said this.
Loh purush time is now gone. All said and done, he could not even defeat the MMS. Even MMS was successful in mocking him. That is a serious failure. It shows that the people(specially, the supporters of BJP) simply rejected him. It means many of them didn't care to vote. He was that uninspiring. He is not inspiring anyone now. He does not fetch any votes or seats.
As for his dilli cotorie, all of them are useless dilli billis. Many of them are completely compromised by the mainos. Even the SS! Mere oratory skills are not enough. One needs to be able to bring votes and seats.
Rajnath Singh, the president of BJP, has openly admitted that Modi is the most popular leader. All the surveys are showing the same thing. MSM and SM are reflecting the same thing. Most people's daily interactions are in similar vein. There is absolutely no doubt at all that no one can compare to Modi, rightnow, in terms of popularity and vote catching ability. Modi is in a completely different league right now. That does not mean he will always be popular. Remember a big part of Modi's charm is that he is successful i.e. he has continued to win elections despite all the mud and dirt thrown at him by msm, ngos and assorted kongi chamchas. So, if Modi loses the election(regardless of whether he is projected as a PM or not, the defeat will be seen as a defeat of Modi's brand), then the charm of Modi will take serious dent.
Anyway, I don't think voters appreciate this kind of backroom nonsense put up by the lohpurush. Such things will have negative impact on voters. Many supporters will not vote as a sign of protest. Some will even vote negatively. And finally, the fence-sitters will refrain. That leaves the regular c-system and its adherents.
So, Modi is straightforward choice for PM candidate. BJP should project him and aim for the largest party in parliament. Simple. If it can do that, then all the allies will automatically come. If it cannot do that, then no ally is going to be useful. If after the elections, there is a need for compromise due to lack of seats, then that is understandable(perhaps), but to start out with compromises is silly.
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Arjun wrote:Sanku wrote:Wide across the table acceptability -- politics is all about convincing people.
Experience of running the government at central level at highest positions
A long history of proven party building
A strong Hindutva votary (original one -- more Hindutva oriented than even NaMo perhaps)
Economically liberal politician
In India whether you like it or not, age and experience brings acceptability and deference, there is a reason why Indian PMs have been old. And a 70+ PVNR is a better choice than a 40 year young RG etc.
The ONLY thing I will grant is that he seems to be a good consensus candidate...
Other than that, frankly - there is NOTHING that stands out about Advani. He's nowhere near as good in oratory or ability to connect with the masses (or intellectuals) as Modi (or even Sushma) - there is no overarching vision for India which Modi undeniably has, Advani has no track record of performance to fall back on unlike Modi.
So really - there is NOTHING in Advani to enthuse anybody.
Even in terms of Hindutva - I agree Advani is more associated with RJB. Whether this exclusive focus on RJB to the exclusion of other religious issues can be considered 'hard' Hindutva or soft Hindutva is very much open to debate. I personally consider the RJB types to be 'soft' Hindutva - though they clearly regard themselves to be the 'hard' types in their own minds.
It is considered 'hard' Hindutva because there is an emotional connection. I mean a 'hard' hindutva guy is not able to fathom the lack of Sri Rama's temple at His birth place. And to add to it, if there stands another monument, it is like adding salt to the injury. I'll give an example: lets say there is an X and Y. The families of X and Y are kidnapped and are being tortured. Now, X wants to immediately save his family. Y wants a more long term solution against kidnappings. X is a 'hard' familyman. He is unable to bear the pain being undergone by his family. Compared to X, Y is a 'soft' familyman.
Originally, RJB had much bigger potential. Initially, it had included Kashi and Mathura also. And there was a real fear that there would be a demand that all the monuments that were erected after the willful destruction of the Indic places of worship are restored to the original owners. If that demand had come up, then it would have been a death knell to the present setup. It is like 100 megaton. It would have achieved much more in few months than what a generation of 'saffronizing' of education would do.
Most(if not all), the malsi monuments in India are occupied or built after the desecration or destruction of local monuments. Sita Ram Goel has compiled a list of 2000 Hindu temples which are recorded to have been destroyed or desecrated to build or modify them into a malsi monument. He says that he has compiled thae list from impeccable malsi sources and records. Further, he says that 2000 is a number that is merely the tip of the ice berg. The actual number would be much much more. If ASI starts digging around, then many more details will tumble. If those monuments are restored to the original owners, the whole facade built around Malsi in the desh will crumble. Such a movement has many far-reaching implications. It would have led to the so-called commie 'eminent historians' and how they have weaved a narrative in support of Malsi. Actually, it was VHP which took up the RJB movement. BJP highjacked it. And in many ways, diluted it. Loh Purush was the one who dropped Kashi and Mathura from the list and only Ayodhya remained. Even on Ayodhya front, BJP did not deliver anything when they came to power.
It is movements like RJB that truly shape the narrative and discourse of a nation. If RJB had attained its full potential, then social discourse would have been completely different. RJB, still, has much bigger potential. Even in its limited 10% avatar, RJB movement has achieved a lot. It can still do a lot.
If Modi(or some other fresh leader) is unable to get to power in 2019, on the plank of development(or governance), they can make use of RJB. I think Modi would need RJB in 2019 because results of development will not be immediately noticeable by that time assuming Modi is in power in 2014 and starts rectifying the situation.
