Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Sushupti]

Originally, RJB had much bigger potential. Initially, it had included Kashi and Mathura also. And there was a real fear that there would be a demand that all the monuments that were erected after the willful destruction of the Indic places of worship are restored to the original owners. If that demand had come up, then it would have been a death knell to the present setup. It is like 100 megaton. It would have achieved much more in few months than what a generation of 'saffronizing' of education would do.

johneeG garu,

great post.

RJB Andolan and in fact any real or hypothetical movement to reclaim the destroyed temples in India was basing the rejuvenation of Bharat on Bhakti yoga strategy. Nothing wrong with that unless it impeded the other yoga strategies - Jñāna and Karma.

"Saffronization" of Education is the Jñāna yoga strategy, the strategy I would favor as the rejuvenation principle. It revolves around reclaiming Bharat as the Mother Civilization of Mankind.

Narendra Modi has, I believe, correctly based the rejuvenation of Bharat on Karma yoga strategy - development, growth and prosperity but keeping our civilizational heritage in the center.

The Bhakti strategy, IMHO, should come last. It should be the icing on the cake. It should represent our victory and not our struggle.

JMTs

That's my original issue with Windbag and and his Sancho Panza "Lota" Purush. They did their job of dismantling the whole movement block by block.

[Sanku]

Sanku ji, as someone who has been observing the BJP with growing despair for 9 years....

Rudradev ji; let us just say I may have first hand information on this count.

[Sanku]

Sir, social media has been used effectively by BJP as a party even before NaMo. All those supporters of NaMo on SM, are there because the nurturing of Social media by BJP (and not NaMo alone) -- it is just that a section of those are now turned anti BJP and pro NaMo, projecting NaMo above the party. Many of the tools were given by BJP to NaMo.

I'm a NaMo supporter at SM (heck we all are ). There has been no BJP nurturing in making me so.

Fine Saar.

[Sanku]

Sanku,
A couple of questions:

Why do you want LKA as next PM?
Why do you oppose NM as next PM?


I want to know the support for LKA and the angst against NM.

Ramana ji; angst against NM? There is none. However there is some angst against some people who have recently discovered NaMo and think that he is one shot cure for everything and anything including common cold and single handedly will contest all the elections by saying F you to RSS, BJP and everybody else.

My angst is at the unreasonable and incorrect understanding of the NaMo phenomena, I have nothing against support, but BRF critical thinking is needed.

That said, I have outlined my support for Advani as PM in 2014 before -- simply put it is not the time of NaMo, IMVHO. NaMo needs to be positioned in a way that he gets space to grow, with least amount of flak directed at him. Setting him up overtly in a "Modi or bust mode" is going to ensure that there is bust, it can be achieved in many ways including assassination (something about which I have been warning for a loooooong lonnnnn time) -- even if he is your strongest weapon, turning the battle into ONLY NaMo and the rest weakens your own case, and of course of NaMo's.

People are so caught up in lynch mob faishon bashing of anyone even suspected to be "enemy of the state" -- that no one has stopped to think the import of Secular certificate that Nitish Kumar has effortlessly give Advani .

Much is happening here, and people are getting caught in very simplistic uni-dimensional models.

[prahaar]

Sankuji, please care to elaborate on the bolded text in your post.

[member_22539]

Guys, let Mr. Sanku have his own opinion. I respect his right to have one and there is no need for us to change his opinion. I get the feeling this thread has been derailed in a futile effort to convince him otherwise. Please try to keep proper focus.

[Sri]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

[Pranav]

no one has stopped to think the import of Secular certificate that Nitish Kumar has effortlessly give Advani .

The only significance of that certificate is to prop up the 86 year old man against Modi.

Otherwise Nitish's certificates are worthless. He was singing praise of Modi too, after he won the 2002 Guj election.

[Sushupti]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

It's like some character from pre SRK death part comes by mistake in post death part of the movie Om Shanti Om.

[Pranav]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

Political self-interest often conflicts with national interest and entails collaboration with foreign entities (consider the recent revelation of Fernandes asking for CIA money).

[Sanku]

Sankuji, please care to elaborate on the bolded text in your post.

Prahaar-ji; I was trying to talk about in another post as well, in response to Chandragupta ji.

There are two significances
1) Mega trend wise: In early years ABV was the radical, then came Advani and ABV was ostensibly supposed to have become moderate magically (this after penning all the poems he did etc) -- of course he was not one and he changed the Indian discourse for ever. Now while Advani was considered unacceptable due to being single handedly responsible for pulling down of the Babri filth, suddenly with almost no change in positioning (barring one unfortunate misstep with Jinnah) he is now "moderate" and Modi is the radical person. If you see, slowly but surely the discourse is shifting away from the Nehruivan setup. (Of course we are impatient with the rate of change but that is a different topic)

2) Immediate RJB wise: RJB verdict is due, that project has not gone away even if not in political limelight, it is still being struggled for. If Advani is legitimized by Nitish, the whole RJB is also legitimately secular now. It would be very difficult to say that Advani is acceptable and RJB is not.

I expect RJB to come into existence in a legitimized manner, i.e. through courts and then built upon. This would be tectonic shift. Hindus would have got something through the power structure of the country rather than by struggling against it. First time since Marathas/Somnath?

A headlong charge of the light brigade into the mouth of the canons is not the only way.

[Sushupti]

Congress to announce prime ministerial candidate after polls, says Sibal

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kapi ... 66326.html

[Sushupti]

A sacrifice the BJP cannot afford
SWAPAN DASGUPTA

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/a ... 627661.ece

[Supratik]

Sanku,
A couple of questions:

Why do you want LKA as next PM?
Why do you oppose NM as next PM?

I want to know the support for LKA and the angst against NM.

Can't say about Sanku but myself - I am not sure if NM can pull it off in UP and Bihar (without alliance). These are extremely casteist places and are not developed enough to look at the big picture. I think NM is more visionary and capable than LKA. I think we may be pushing him to become Abhimanyu.

[Sushupti]

A STATEMENT ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF THE FORMER BJP PRESIDENT SHRI NITIN GADKARI ON APRIL 18, 2013

Shri Gadkari and Shri Jaitley had not given any assurance to Shri Kumar that Shri Modi would not be projected as the prime ministerial candidate for the 2014 general elections.

http://www.bjp.org/index.php?option=com ... Itemid=494

[Sanku]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

Thank you for saying that Sri-ji.

[Aditya_V]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

If these low lifes can stop using communal and non-communal then national and anti national can be stopped. As long as we have this self declared secular and communal, then the other side is going to use national and anti national.

If all media, NGO and Political parties can admit their lies in the past then the we can do away with such categorisations.

However, when many policies are anti-national then they will be called anti national

[Sanku]

^^^

That name calling business is turning into a epidemic, now everyone from SS, to Advani, to Sushma swaraj to xyz is a thug, anti national this that etc.

There is no sense of discernment, of course one of those doing it here is a AAP supporter, the sole charter of which is to basically call names to all and sundry and throw mud around generously in the hope that all white and black look same by the time that they are done.

However, such virusus catch on quickly. Pages after pages are replaced with one-two line name calling instead of even a modicum of reasoned debated.

What passes for debate is to quote name calling exercise from other place is SM, post it here, use it for name calling, use that name calling to go else where and rinse and repeat.

BRF has become a rediff message board.

[member_20317]

2) Immediate RJB wise: RJB verdict is due, that project has not gone away even if not in political limelight, it is still being struggled for. If Advani is legitimized by Nitish, the whole RJB is also legitimately secular now. It would be very difficult to say that Advani is acceptable and RJB is not.

I expect RJB to come into existence in a legitimized manner, i.e. through courts and then built upon. This would be tectonic shift. Hindus would have got something through the power structure of the country rather than by struggling against it. First time since Marathas/Somnath?

A headlong charge of the light brigade into the mouth of the canons is not the only way.

RJB cannot come up through the courts. In any case, the national relevance of RJB is important not the legal one.

But what is this, about Nitish legitimizing Advani and ending up legitmizing RJB. That logic is the exact opposite of how I see it.

Niku wanted to push Advani ji's name. Advani ji cannot afford to be seen with Niku without risk loosing 99.99% of Sangh support. So he reiterates his link with RJB, a project he was involved. If Niku has to 'legitimize' then he has to forget his re-election.

[JohnTitor]

Isn't it enough reason to dislodge UPA for next 30 years?

This graph and its contents are a figment of RSS' imagination. By propogating this, you are showing yourself to be non-secular RSS wallah. Shame on you. Your own post below proves that everyone who supports Modi is anti secular and a RSS goon.

Code: Select all

[quote]Narendra Modi, his supporters and RSS leaders on terrorists radar?

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/GUJ-AH ... 1-NOR.html[/quote]

I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

Sri ji, seriously???
I guess it was in the national interest that devegowda & sons have grabbed 1000s of acres of land - building an internatoinal airport in a location that most other people didnt want.
I guess also shinde was a patriot for saying terrorism has no religion or colour except saffron/hindu. Need I go on or is non-development of infrastructure and scams also in national interest? Perhaps as someone on toilet paper commented - they are keeping india's wealth safe in swiss banks to prevent RSS goondas from wasting it on silly things.

Sir, while I understand the context in which you said this, it does not apply to indian politicians. They are interested in developing their own bank account and nothing more. I think what you really meant to say was that those you mentioned are not anti-national per-say, but don't mind selling the nation for personal benefit.

[Supratik]

Lets go back to the C voter poll. INC loosing 90+ seats and NDA gaining 30+ seats is an underestimate. They gave NDA 184 seats. My analysis is that it should be closer to 200-210. So even in this scenario NDA Govt. is going to be formed in 2014.

[Pranav]

There is no sense of discernment, of course one of those doing it here is a AAP supporter, the sole charter of which is to basically call names to all and sundry and throw mud around generously in the hope that all white and black look same by the time that they are done.

Amusing.

We support healthy political competition between those who have worthwhile contributions to make to the national discourse. We support a weeding out of useless eaters.

Which is why Modi needs to take over the BJP, whereas the avowedly left-oriented AAP would be a more wholesome alternative to the Congress and Commies.

[VikramS]

Sanku ji, as someone who has been observing the BJP with growing despair for 9 years....

Rudradev ji; let us just say I may have first hand information on this count.

I knew it. Always knew it.

It is the Loh Purush himself...

[Sushupti]

Author is extremely venomous secular snake and media adviser to Niku. What Pyari Babu was to Biju Patnaik in breaking BJD-BJP alliance, this author is same to BJP-JDU alliance.

Nitish Taunt to BJP Brass: Not Prepared To Commit Sati At Altar of Narendra Modi’s Ambitions

New Delhi, April 17: Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar appears convinced Narendra Modi is in unstoppable surge as BJP spearhead for 2014 and has directed his war-room to prepare to go it alone. “The BJP leadership has known for a long time Narendra Modi is not acceptable to us, but it is clear his projection as prime ministerial candidate is nothing anybody in that party can prevent, even if they wish,” sources close to Nitish Kumar told The Telegraph today, “Both sides know this alliance is all but over.”

Nitish’s penny-drop moment on Modi’s inexorable march came during two private meetings he had over the weekend with BJP president Rajnath Singh and Arun Jaitley, a key architect of Bihar’s ruling alliance. Nitish is believed to have re-drawn the line on Narendra Modi with both leaders but received no assurance. On the contrary, he returned with the impression that Modi’s ascent was inevitable. Sources suggested he felt disappointed top BJP leaders — “even of the seniority of L.K. Advani, under whom we fought the last election” — have not stepped in to save the alliance. A key aide of Nitish Kumar, in fact, sardonically mocked senior BJP leaders saying, “It seems they have been rendered voiceless at the peak of their political careers, Modi is about to give them all a golden handshake and they are unable to pull their hands and play their own card.”


The changed mood of his BJP interlocutors was inescapable to Nitish. Barely months ago, when he had iterated his reservations on Modi to the then BJP chief, Nitin Gadkari, the Bihar chief minister had received an immediate assurance that a prime ministerial nominee would be picked in consultation with NDA constituents. No such offer, much less guarantee, was extended this time. “Nitishji got the clear sense that even those BJP leaders who want the alliance with JDU to survive are helpless, they are not in a position to argue against Modi, aksham hain, they are incapable,” the sources said.

The Bihar chief minister’s riposte to the BJP leaders’ silence on Modi was to leave them in no uncertainty he would go public with his “no-Modi” call, which he did with his extended Modi-bashing at the JDU national council last Sunday. “Nitishji had made his position clear to Arun Jaitley when they met on the evening before his speech,” sources said, “BJP leaders knew the blast was coming.”

Nitish’s no-holds-barred attack on Modi triggered acrimonious exchanges down the line between allies. The BJP’s newly-named spokesperson, Meenakshi Lekhi, declared her party would “not tolerate” any criticism of Modi; in Patna, BJP office bearers have begun to dare the JDU saying they are prepared to fight all of Bihar’s Lok Sabha seats alone. The new state BJP boss Mangal Pandey, among others, felt free to needle Nitish Kumar personally, earning angered retort. “Let the BJP not lose sight of the fact that they cannot form a government without us,” JDU spokesman Shivanand Tiwary countered, “Our opposition to Narendra Modi is nothing new, if they cannot understand or accommodate our strong and stated reservations it is for the BJP to ponder the future.” Neither side is promising their rhetoric will not turn more acrimonious.

Mere brinkmanship, or a dare that could put to death the most durable political alliance of contemporary times? Ideally, Nitish would still have the alliance intact; it has endured more than 15 years, half of that period in power. Together, the BJP and the JDU have crafted a winner socio-political alliance of upper castes, extremely backwards, Dalits and sections of Muslims. Sundering the alliance will mean tough rebuilding, especially for Nitish as he will bear the burden not merely of retaining power but also of his upper hand in Bihar politics.

It is fair to speculate that the Bihar chief minister continues to play on advocates of the alliance in the BJP — a set that may be co-terminus with the section opposed to Narendra Modi’s candidacy — to outmanoeuvre the Gujarat chief minister’s national ambitions. Nitish’s loud espousal of the Atal Behari Vajpayee mould is clearly aimed at nudging other BJP seniors to step up to the forefront and outflank Modi.

But Nitish’s recent feedback from within the BJP has spoken of an “overwhelming tilt of momentum” in favour of his Gujarati bete noire. One Bihar BJP leader considered close to Nitish is believed to have indirectly conveyed to the chief minister that he was powerless to cut the drift towards a bitter parting. “The mood of party workers and cadres is such that they are prepared to lynch you for arguing against Modi,” he is believed to have told an interlocutor, “That is the reason even senior party leaders, even those who might have nursed prime ministerial ambitions of their own, are silent.”

Nitish, his war-room indicates, finds himself under no such obligation; his tone, they promise, will only turn shriller as Modi hot-foots it to centrestage. “Don’t be under any illusions on this one,” said a political aide, “In his head, Nitish has already called this alliance dead, he is thinking what after.”{$uck-off take your beggib bowl and go where ever you want}

http://sankarshanthakur.com/2013/04/18/ ... ambitions/

I am very much relieved after reading above article.

[Sushupti]

And here you go.

Bihar Muslims accuse Nitish Kumar of doublespeak
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 46336.aspx

"Sir Mundate hee ole pade"

[Atri]

Which is why Modi needs to take over the BJP, whereas the avowedly left-oriented AAP would be a more wholesome alternative to the Congress and Commies.

And I say, BJP-RSS should replace INC and Something like Hindu Mahasabha OR swatantrata party should become the new right wing party.. No room for stupidos like Kejariwal et al.. This is what I call a paradigm shift.. whole frame of reference shifts towards right..

But as rudradeva acharya said in one of his posts, this left-right thing is not applicable in India.

[Pranav]

No room for stupidos like Kejariwal et al ...

If they have no valid point to make, if corruption is not a major issue, then naturally they will not get support. It is observed, however, that their meetings in Delhi, especially in poor localities, are drawing the kind of crowds which most others cannot get except by paying.

[Sanku]

RJB cannot come up through the courts. In any case, the national relevance of RJB is important not the legal one.

I agree that the national relevance of RJB is important, courts will be one of the tools. Why do you think that would not be the case? As it is the HC has done a lot to legitimize our cause?

Advani ji cannot afford to be seen with Niku without risk loosing 99.99% of Sangh support. So he reiterates his link with RJB, a project he was involved. If Niku has to 'legitimize' then he has to forget his re-election.

So with Advani openly supporting RJB once more, and yet Nitish openly supporting Advani what exactly is happening?

Nitish is clearly playing both sides, is it not? That gives a clear opening.

[Sanku]

There is no sense of discernment, of course one of those doing it here is a AAP supporter, the sole charter of which is to basically call names to all and sundry and throw mud around generously in the hope that all white and black look same by the time that they are done.

Amusing.

We support healthy political competition between those who have worthwhile contributions to make to the national discourse. We support a weeding out of useless eaters.

Which is why Modi needs to take over the BJP, whereas the avowedly left-oriented AAP would be a more wholesome alternative to the Congress and Commies.

AAP does not support anything like this. AAP supports anti Indians terrorists, Harsh Mander & Fai's and play the congress game on congress sponsors dole. To that end, it used FUD and other such techniques liberally.

Its only goal is to spread FUD and open another front against PIF.

[muraliravi]

And here you go.

Bihar Muslims accuse Nitish Kumar of doublespeak
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 46336.aspx

"Sir Mundate hee ole pade"

Nitish problem with modi was never muslim vote, he gets meagre share of muslim vote and he knows that. The issue is abt a mass obc leader at the top of bjp for the 1st time. Modi will bargain for more seats to contest

[Pranav]

AAP does not support anything like this. AAP supports anti Indians terrorists, Harsh Mander & Fai's and play the congress game on congress sponsors dole. To that end, it used FUD and other such techniques liberally.

Its only goal is to spread FUD and open another front against PIF.

The veracity of your allegations can be debated elsewhere. But it is doubtful whether their supporters in the poorer localities have ever heard of Fai and Mander.

[Sanku]

AAP does not support anything like this. AAP supports anti Indians terrorists, Harsh Mander & Fai's and play the congress game on congress sponsors dole. To that end, it used FUD and other such techniques liberally.

Its only goal is to spread FUD and open another front against PIF.

The veracity of your allegations can be debated elsewhere. But it is doubtful whether their supporters in the poorer localities have ever heard of Fai and Mander.

They have supporters? And in poorer localities? Heh.

In any case if the above was believed for the sake of argument, how or why is the ignorance of poorer sections even a defence against the fact that they are practically a Mander/Fai organization? You spin HUGE CTs on just opinions, here there are direct proofs.

Chalo chodo. (chuck it)

[Pranav]

They have supporters? And in poorer localities? Heh.

It is observed that their meetings are quite well attended.

In any case if the above was believed for the sake of argument, how or why is the ignorance of poorer sections even a defence against the fact that they are practically a Mander/Fai organization? You spin HUGE CTs on just opinions, here there are direct proofs.

Chalo chodo. (chuck it)

Point being that their support has nothing to do with any alleged links to Fai and Mander. It is based purely on whether people find any validity in their positions on corruption, price rise, decentralized governance etc.

[Arunkumar]

today's TOI has an article by one Arvind Virmani titled 'Rahul-X or Advani-Modi'. The most hilarious line in the article was in an uncertain win for BJP then the scenario could be, LKA - PM, NM - DyPM(economy), Niku - DyPM(social inclusion). Reminded me of some posters suggestion here. The article gave a sense of someone begging like, please please dont make Namo as PM candidate, we will tolerate anybody else. So this is a standard line being peddled by Dilli-billis to prevent a take over.

The article states he is a president of chintan live?. On googling found out he has all the required credentials to write non-partisan articles. i.e ex-st-stephens,ex GOI, ex-harvard, currently fellow Brookings Institution.

[johneeG]

Rudradev ji; let us just say I may have first hand information on this count.

I knew it. Always knew it.

It is the Loh Purush himself...

It took me a second reading to get it!

One a more serious note, Sanku ji, are you really Loh Purush?

---

No room for stupidos like Kejariwal et al ...

If they have no valid point to make, if corruption is not a major issue, then naturally they will not get support. It is observed, however, that their meetings in Delhi, especially in poor localities, are drawing the kind of crowds which most others cannot get except by paying.

But, one cannot support those who are sympathizers of secession movements(kashmir) and insurgency(maoist) in the name of anti-corruption, isn't it?!

Even on the issue of corruption, what is the proposed solution of AAP? Merely bringing Lokpal is enough?! Is Lokpal incorruptible? Adding a few more bureaucrats into the system will not necessarily solve the issue of corruption.

BTW, I personally appreciate the AAP's revelations on netas' corruptions cutting across party lines. That was good. There is indeed need for more such people who reveal everyone's corruptions. But, why did he stop? His last major attack was against Gadkari. After that, he went quiet? Why? Is there no more dirt to be found on politicians in desh? Why didn't he go after the queen bee?

Anyway, his source of funding and his company raises many questions.

You are saying that AAP will take the space of Kongis. But, it seems AAP is aiming for the anti-incumbency votes, that means AAP is aiming to split the votes of opposition and hence help the kongis.

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I am sticking my neck out here but I will say it anyways. Can we please stop casting people like Nitish, Mulayam, Mayawati and others as anti national, paid scrooges etc... Indian politician is a complex entity but they are not traitors. Everyone acts in their own self interest politically, it might be inconvenient for some but that is how politics is.

As far as INC is concerned they are sycophants with low IQ. Sooner or later law of averages will catch up IQ wise.

Saar,
I think you are thinking wrong terms: traitor-patriot. I think the idea of the politicians is completely different(not just in desh). The idea of a country to them is completely different. They look at themselves as rulers, as privileged ones. They look at the masses as subjects.

Modi has said that he is not a politician. I don't think he made that statement just like that. I think he meant, he does not think like a politician. Thats why he advocates participation of people. He does not look at people as subjects, but as partners.

Other politicians are not like that. Not just in desh, but generally. The politicians look at the masses as subjects who have to be ruled. In this perspective there are two methods:
a) look at subjects as one's own children and care for them.
b) look at subjects as if they are sheep to be herded.

The option (a) is a classical ancient Indian style. The ruler is compared to a father, subjects are compared to children. The option (b) is the more prevalent general style. Politicians, social elites, and money-bags form a nexus and tend to look down upon common citizens with contempt. They do not care for the well-being of the general masses. The masses are seen as expendable.

Lets call these people who are at the top of the pyramid as elites.

Another point is that elites of one society(state or country) forge connections with elites of another society(state or country). They form into networks. The connections are formed through marriages or business deals.

In any unorganized sector, one cannot come up without sucking up to those who are on the higher echelons. For example: movie industry, ...etc.

In such cases nepotism and favoritism make or break the deal. The same applies to politics as well. In politics, it is difficult to come up without someone's support. Why would the other one support you, if he does not get any profit from it?

Then, there is an angle of foreign interference. In any country around the world, many shadow organizations would be trying to prop up friendly regimes(friendly to themselves) or to throw out antagonistic regimes. To do that all kinds of entities are popped up. The same happens in desh as well. It is difficult for us to think of our country in that manner. But thats the reality around the world.

Most politicians are corrupt, specially in desh. So, various entities(around the world) can bribe them to make them act according to their wishes. And finally, there is blackmail. Blackmail can be used to make people(including politicians) to do the bidding. And since most politicians are corrupt and they save this money in foreign locations, it is quite easy to blackmail them with this info, if one can get hold of it.

So, it is quite common for the politicians to support anti-national policies. They see it as part and parcel of playing politics. I do not think, they think in terms of traitor-patriot. Their idea of a country is different from that of general people. Modi seems to be an exception in this regard.

And it is no surprise that he is willing to be grilled by the people on various topics and is giving them answers. Which other politicians is willing to condescend to be grilled by people on various topics? Why are they not doing it? The first problem is that of their attitude. Of course, they know they lack the knowledge to answer the questions satisfactorily and that is also the reason for shying away from people.

One cannot blindly trust the politicians. So, if people find that some politician or party or group supports or pushes for anti-national policies, it is important that they call it out. Even if Modi is following some anti-national policies, people need to call it out. Vigilance of people is the only solution.

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Originally, RJB had much bigger potential. Initially, it had included Kashi and Mathura also. And there was a real fear that there would be a demand that all the monuments that were erected after the willful destruction of the Indic places of worship are restored to the original owners. If that demand had come up, then it would have been a death knell to the present setup. It is like 100 megaton. It would have achieved much more in few months than what a generation of 'saffronizing' of education would do.

johneeG garu,

great post.

RJB Andolan and in fact any real or hypothetical movement to reclaim the destroyed temples in India was basing the rejuvenation of Bharat on Bhakti yoga strategy. Nothing wrong with that unless it impeded the other yoga strategies - Jñāna and Karma.

"Saffronization" of Education is the Jñāna yoga strategy, the strategy I would favor as the rejuvenation principle. It revolves around reclaiming Bharat as the Mother Civilization of Mankind.

Narendra Modi has, I believe, correctly based the rejuvenation of Bharat on Karma yoga strategy - development, growth and prosperity but keeping our civilizational heritage in the center.

The Bhakti strategy, IMHO, should come last. It should be the icing on the cake. It should represent our victory and not our struggle.

JMTs

Thanks RajeshA saar.

That was a good categorization of approaches: Bhakti(emotion), Karma(action) and Gyana(Knowledge).

I agree with you that Gyana(Knowledge) is more long-term solution. But, Bhakti(emotion) has a power of its own. Generally, movements are constructed on the basis of Gyana(Knowledge), but the engine that runs a movement is Bhakti(emotion). I would say that all movements of the world are run by emotion only. Once the emotional content is taken away, the movement dissipates. I think the abrahamic creeds are also Bhakti cults. But, the problem is that they lost their Gyana and Karma components. (I wanted to write on this, I'll hopefully write on this in some other suitable thread).

I personally believe that a society needs a balance of Bhakti, Karma and Gyana. Too much of anything(devoid of the others), becomes degenerative. One can see that most of the Hindu reformers or gurus were trying to restore the balance between Bhakti(emotion/devotion), Karma(action/ritual) and Gyana(knowledge/philosophy).

[Muppalla]

He is pro business, so Maasa or West has no benefit to accident him. West is coming to his doorsteps, accidenting will however put a spineless and weak BJP in New DeLhi.

Massa is also funding likes of Harsh Mander, Shabnam Hashmi, Teesta.. and State Department treats him as persona non grata.

Business is non-issue for the west as far as India is concerned. However, geo-politics trumps everything else and they will weigh who is better between INC and BJP. The 1998 tests are not forgotten, operation parakram is not forgotten. The painful dealings between Strobe Talbott and Jaswant Singh and another hugely painful dialog with Armitiage and the changes that are forced on Pakistan are still ringing in the ears. When the efforts are revert to more stables times of regular terror and killing in India, why would someone like Modi.

The west will not prefer a government in India that makes the troops to return to Afghanistan.

[Muppalla]

Modi as PM may encourage right-wing militancy: US think-tank

'Certainly it could embolden some Hindu extremists. It could also embolden some fundamental extremists. Probably elements on both sides would seek to capitalise and one would worry about the potential tit-for-tat escalation of violence.'


Aziz Haniffa listens to concerns at a Washington, DC think-tank about Narendra Modi's [ Images ] possible rise as India's prime minister.

If Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi is elected prime minister after the next general election, it would most certainly embolden right-wing militancy.

This is a forecast from Tom Sanderson, co-director and senior fellow at the Transnational Threats Project at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a leading Washington, DC think- tank

Sanderson made this prediction in a CSIS report titled Trends in Militancy across South Asia: A Region on the Brink, which was released at a conference in Washington, DC, headlined by Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, director of the Pentagon's [ Images ] Defence Intelligence Agency.

'Certainly, there is no doubt that any time an individual leader who has inspired several groups like this -- RSS (the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) and others -- that you do inflame; you do push them to perhaps engage in bolder activities,' Sanderson said.

If Modi was elected prime minister, Sanderson cautioned, right-wing militant groups would 'feel that they have top cover in what they have done in the past and they can continue with what they were doing.'

During extensive field research in India and other countries of South Asia for the report, he said, 'We did look at some of these issues and time and again, especially when we looked at the Indian Mujahideen [ Images ] and SIMI [ Images ] (Students Islamic Movement of India) as well, the Babri mosque (demolition) incident in 1992 and Gujarat (riot) issue remain persistent issues and rallying cries on both sides for some of the extreme Hindu fanatics.'

'I was reminded while I was there that Hindu nationalism is fine,' Sanderson said, 'it's the Hindu fanaticism that is a problem. And now, with Narendra Modi heading towards potentially the prime ministership, the concerns about Gujarat and the leadership at the time do raise some uncomfortable questions.'

Stephen Tankel, assistant professor at American University and a non-resident scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, echoed Sanderson's sentiments.

Tankel, author of Storming the World Stage: The Story of Lashkar-e-Taiba, said that much of Islamic militancy "is in response, of course, to communal violence. There are socio-economic grievances, but the primary driver for the Indian Mujahedeen network and the wider Indian jihadi network is in response to communal violence."

"Gujarat was the culmination of 20 years or more of escalating communal violence," Tankel said. "Since then, there has not been violence on the same scale and there have been efforts by both communities and the Indian State to try to tamper down that communal sentiment."

"But, of course, when you talk to interlocutors in India," Tankel acknowledged, "they will say there is concern beneath the surface that there is an event that can spark that."

"It's important to note that the National Investigative Agency, which was established several years ago by the Indian government, has begun to look into incidents of Hindu terrorism -- incidents which were initially hung around the necks of Indian Islamic militants," Tankel added.

"And in line with that," Tankel said, "there has also been an effort -- and here the India media is to be commended -- for pushing for prosecution of at least some of those involved in (the) Gujarat (riots) and there have been efforts to prosecute some, though, of course, not Modi."

"What would it mean if he (Modi) were to come into power? Certainly it could embolden some Hindu extremists," he said, but noted, "It could also embolden some fundamental extremists. Probably elements on both sides would seek to capitalise and one would worry about the potential tit-for-tat escalation of violence."

That said, Tankel reiterated, "This is something that folks in India take quite seriously and people in both communities do try -- not successfully -- to keep a lid on it."

This is just a trickle and a start. As Modi rises this will also rise to Ocean's level.

[member_20317]

I agree that the national relevance of RJB is important, courts will be one of the tools. Why do you think that would not be the case? As it is the HC has done a lot to legitimize our cause?

Bhai sahab, right now its just a hunch based on a smell test. But then I deal in trapdoors, backdoors, english play and suchlike in a different context. Ganda hai par dhanda hai.

Also I have tried to read some of the judgements in these areas and I am not confident of winning theoretical battles. Have seen theory win over facts often enough. Inshah Allah, if and when I get to free myself, this mujahid will work on this personally at some level. But the bias in the system is terrible with the opponent actually being better at theorizing in both their own theories and ours too. For the most part our theories have already thinned out to almost non-existent. If we have to do something we have to do it putting practically all into it.

Advani ji cannot afford to be seen with Niku without risk loosing 99.99% of Sangh support. So he reiterates his link with RJB, a project he was involved. If Niku has to 'legitimize' then he has to forget his re-election.

So with Advani openly supporting RJB once more, and yet Nitish openly supporting Advani what exactly is happening?

Nitish is clearly playing both sides, is it not? That gives a clear opening.

Sanku ji, my read is that Niku wants to goad the BJP leadership and is putting LKA on a pedestal to achieve that. LKA knows he cannot rely on Niku for his own candidature and so is trying to distance himself from Niku. LKA specifically mentioned RJB (his only real political capital) to get out of the predicament that Niku had put him in. Niku too it seems has played his best hand and cannot do any more than this.

In fact the counter play by NM seems more interesting to me. NM has no handle on Niku so long as other leaders in BJP think they have a chance. But he can attempt something against LKA and Togadia so he goes after, Maya and Babu to rein in the militant hindutva vaadis and get the hindutva element to question seniors like LKA and others. This eats into LKA's political capital too. Niku himself will begin to have self doubts after this. Poor Niku.

My conclusion is that LKA and Togadia who were the prime face for RJB may well become a liability for RJB itself.

Legitimizing RJB is not even the issue for anybody in all this.

[Sanku]

They have supporters? And in poorer localities? Heh.

It is observed that their meetings are quite well attended.

Such as this?
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/1815609/r ... wal-s-fast

In any case, well attended (even if true, which it is not) != supporters in poorer areas.

Point being that their support has nothing to do with any alleged links to Fai and Mander. It is based purely on whether people find any validity in their positions on corruption, price rise, decentralized governance etc.

Err, so if their support has nothing to do with the fact that AAP is a harsh mander/fai/ISI type of anti India backing, why bring up that issue?

So there are people being taken for a ride? How does that give a clean chit to AAP.

[Sanku]

I knew it. Always knew it.

It is the Loh Purush himself...

It took me a second reading to get it!

One a more serious note, Sanku ji, are you really Loh Purush?
.

Koi shak?