Indian IT Industry

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 10 Apr 2013 09:57

^^
margin must be around 10% i guess.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Apr 2013 10:45

Jhujar wrote:
Alti's key customers include French companies in banking, financial services, luxury, manufacturing and utilities sectors. It has 1,200 employees across France, Belgium and Switzerland, and had revenue of €126 million in 2012.

€126 million with 1200 employees works out to approximately €0.1 million (or 100,000 €) revenue per employee. I'm assuming that this is gross revenue, not net. Given the high taxes that companies pay in Europe, they can't be very profitable (if they are profitable at all) with numbers like that. Maybe TCS bought this company only to get access to their customer list.

By comparison, the place I work for did about $200 million revenue last quarter with around the same number of employees.

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 12 Apr 2013 17:19

The most admired company seems to have posted poor results which has caused a blood bath in the market. Not sure what the problems is since others did post good results.

Then again i am a Sergeant fighting in the trenches for a long time in a product based IT company and not an officer and hence i have really no clue on why Most Admired company seems to be losing its shine while others are doing okay.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Apr 2013 18:23

The most admired company seems to have posted poor results which has caused a blood bath in the market.

The Yuck-Witty "Research" monkeys in most of the I-Banks and brokerages don't understand volatility and don't understand what the Revered Company is trying to do.

What they have essentially said is F-U , we will not manage quarter to quarter for you to be lazy and pencil in some guidance we give you with an expectation of x% beat (and treat us like a fixed income /fixed return), but the IT industry is at a flux, and we are doing a step change in the business model. We are going to invest in products and services, and we will continue to build out our high margin services (which by the way is seeing weakness in demand and hence the soft quarter compared to last) and if that means not tying ourselves down to a fixed margin because we gave you an EPS guidance, well, tough luck, we aint gonna give you an EPS guidance, so you better work your butt off and earn your salary. Oh! We absolutely need to do this, or we will have to start competing with the other hundreds of undifferntiated firms on pricing to go for the commoditizing /commoditized maintenance and infra business.We will offer that as a package of overall service offerings to serve our customres , but we are not going to get into a price war to grab commodity business and shoot oursleves.

This really set the cat among the pigeons, or rather a herd of lions among a pack of wildebeest. The fund managers as a class are a bunch of Wildebeest and that is why i keep my distance from that thundering herd. They are dumb beyond belief and seek safety and strength in the herd.

For smarter folks here, Most Revered is a screaming buy in my books, either as of close today or if it drops a bit on Monday. Get in and put some money in it and hold for a 6 to 12 month time frame. They are doing all the right things and executing well in terms of wins and the macro timing (USA etc) is just about right . With any luck, their margins will climb back steeply driven by topline. This is a great buying opp. The thundering herd has panicked and got mauled today. This is your opportunity to pick it up cheaply.

As for the el Cheapskate "Give me your social security returns" (I know them doing that for the past 20 years atleast) or the perennially waffler on other income and bottom line fixer and their cheesy ads, they are in a sweet spot now in the cycle (they are price warriors), I think, their tide has peaked and it is downhill for the the other income confuser from here.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 12 Apr 2013 18:34

They may be doing all the right things, but if "all the right things" is going to get them only 6 - 10% sales growth that's not going to excite anyone, believe me.

The right time to buy is when there is evidence that doing all the right things is translating to more respectable topline or bottomline growth.

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Apr 2013 20:44

The right time to buy is when there is evidence that doing all the right things is translating to more respectable topline or bottomline growth.

You can never time it. It will show up suddenly, like what happened last quarter, when it spiked 16% in one day , and that too with a flattish to downbeat commentary. That is the kind of move you will see when a good quarter accompanied by an upbeat commentary and earnings upgrade will do. You will be scrambling to catch up after missing the bulk of the upmove. .

It is the old adage. You will make money through Time IN the market rather than Timing the market. That said, I think the 10% part of the range is lot more realistic than the 6%

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Apr 2013 22:53

^ If that went up 16% one day sometime back to drop 20% today, to me it looks like market manipulation by FIIs. They are selling high and buying low by creating the initial push for herds...

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 12 Apr 2013 23:33

Saars.

Most revered company, I believe, would be, TCS?

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 12 Apr 2013 23:44

^^ The above discussion should go into investments thread. Let me continue it there.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 13 Apr 2013 10:57

mahadevbhu wrote:Saars.

Most revered company, I believe, would be, TCS?

I thought it was Infosys. Bliss to clarify?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2013 14:12

this article lays some numbers on table to the extent INFY has underperformed its peers in the period 2008-2013
http://www.firstpost.com/business/infos ... 97696.html

difference has been huge. the co looks well past its glory days.

I dont see any signs or plans on how they intend to survive against the likes of TCS, HCL and Cognizant. with every big co in the world having their own captive centers in india or elsewhere, I am not sure how many greenfield big projects the it services industry can capture...maybe these captive centers will do some local outsourcing.

Wipro imo is in the same hole, maybe a little less

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 13 Apr 2013 18:22

vina wrote:You can never time it. It will show up suddenly, like what happened last quarter, when it spiked 16% in one day , and that too with a flattish to downbeat commentary. That is the kind of move you will see when a good quarter accompanied by an upbeat commentary and earnings upgrade will do. You will be scrambling to catch up after missing the bulk of the upmove. .

It is the old adage. You will make money through Time IN the market rather than Timing the market. That said, I think the 10% part of the range is lot more realistic than the 6%

Well, hope you have experience in trying to catch falling knives ! Its a high risk strategy - with some possibility of handsome gains, but odds more weighted towards red than black.

I agree with you they are doing all the right things - but whether it would take 1 year or 5 for the restructuring to take effect is anybody's guess. Don't see any green shoots yet.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 14 Apr 2013 10:20

vivek_v wrote:The most admired company seems to have posted poor results which has caused a blood bath in the market.

Vegetable Oil Co. also does not seem to be doing that great. Looks like the good old days of 15-20% profit margins, and showing profits quarter on quarter are now slowly fading away. TCS still seems to be holding her fort, and CTS etc. are slowly going up with out going "ga..ga" over it.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 14 Apr 2013 11:38

On the Most Revered Co:

1. All the talk of high end services, 3.0 etc looks good on paper, but the company is not yet equipped to deliver high end services. But then none of the other competitors are any better either. IMO, Infy fvcked up big time in the past 5 years with their HR and operational policies. The salary structure is very rigid, middle managers have very little autonomy. You have talented architects working on solution architecture for huge projects pulling in the same salary as a pen pusher at the same job level. They've also pissed senior people off with the variable pay structure.

2. As much as the top management talks about moving away from commoditization, the thinking in the middle management is still completely geared towards it. There is a lot of inertia and it's not very easy to change it. This cannot be changed if they don't retain and attract good people. You cannot deliver high end projects without capable people running them (Architects, subject matter experts, PMs etc) and they're pinching pennies here. And since there is little mobility within the org (they're trying to change this) you don't really see efficient resource allocation (Colonels and Brigadiers are very possessive about their people).

3. Product division actually has some of the best people in the org and there are a few products with potential. This is where Infy probably has an edge on others at this point of time. But products won't be contributing significantly to overall performance for quite sometime.

4. Things have been changing of late and some deadwood is being removed. It's still a well run company and i don't think the fundamentals are wrong in anyway. It'll be around.

TL:DR -

All the talk of high end services is still a long way off from fruition. This applies to other companies as well. There is still money to be made traditionally (TCS is really superb here. They've nailed the staffing issue). Infy will be around. Might take a couple of years to fully recover but doomsday talk is premature.

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 14 Apr 2013 12:28

Sriman wrote: All the talk of high end services is still a long way off from fruition. This applies to other companies as well. There is still money to be made traditionally (TCS is really superb here. They've nailed the staffing issue). Infy will be around. Might take a couple of years to fully recover but doomsday talk is premature.

A curious question since myself being a Sergent in Semiconductor/Embedded space did not have chance to understand the 'High End' services which was mentioned by Yourself and Vina.

Exactly what would constitute the 'High End/High margin Services' for our IT companies. Is it something related to consulting like what Accenture/IBM does or is it different ? If it is consulting then is there so much money to be made just by consulting.

Also what is TCS and CTS doing differently which the Most Admired Company or Vegetable Oil Company is not able to do especially on the staffing front which you have mentioned ? For the layman i could see approximately the same amount of people (eventhough i have no clue why so many people are needed) doing possibly the same type of work. Then what gives ?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 14 Apr 2013 13:53

vivek_v wrote: A curious question since myself being a Sergent in Semiconductor/Embedded space did not have chance to understand the 'High End' services which was mentioned by Yourself and Vina.

Exactly what would constitute the 'High End/High margin Services' for our IT companies. Is it something related to consulting like what Accenture/IBM does or is it different ? If it is consulting then is there so much money to be made just by consulting.

You could broadly call it consulting but there are multiple aspects to it:

1. Technology consulting. This involves helping companies with their Enterprise IT strategy (with upper hand guaranteed

), rationalizing IT infrastructure, master data management, data governance etc. Typically these were tightly controlled by in house architects or the likes of IBM. But these days companies are open to Indian service companies providing these services as well. At a lower level, one more high margin area is providing expertise with niche tools, skills etc. Expertise in MPP databases, BI tools,performance engg etc gets better billing rates.

2. Provide subject matter expertise. Bigger service companies have a wide client base with projects spanning across multiple domains, so they have an opportunity to build a lot of subject matter expertise. At the higher end of spectrum you can help companies with business process transformation. At the lower end you provide expertise in the form of Business Analysts, Tech Analysts or Architects familiar with a particular business area.

3. IT solutions/products for a given business area (say Basel 2). You can offer it in different ways (SaaS etc). May be even get them to use your cloud.

4. Where everyone wants to get to is complete handling of a business process end to end. This includes Business process transformation (with your business consulting arm), a technology roadmap and architecture (technology consulting), implementation (bread and butter IT services), infrastructure and support (including BPO support if required).

Basically you build both subject matter and technology expertise through traditional services and then try to monetize the expertise in a better way. But the likes of IBM invest significant amounts into research/solutions and also upskilling their consultants. Indian IT companies aren't doing this enough.

vivek_v wrote: Also what is TCS and CTS doing differently which the Most Admired Company or Vegetable Oil Company is not able to do especially on the staffing front which you have mentioned ? For the layman i could see approximately the same amount of people (eventhough i have no clue why so many people are needed) doing possibly the same type of work. Then what gives ?

To maintain margin, you need to staff a position at the lowest cost possible. TCS does it very well. TCS were amongst the first to hire BSc,B.Com grads for positions where an engineering grad is an overkill. A fixed price billing model also tends to get more margins if the project is run well. They also have innovative pricing models where they offer uniform rates across geographies etc. TCS has also has credentials in in executing huge projects. I'm still not sold on CTS (in that i'm not really sure they have a unique model), so no comments there.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 14 Apr 2013 16:22

Basically the expectation is that here is my existing business process and here is where i want to go with my business in next 5 years so please give me a road map of how my business process will have to be re-ajusted and automated. These would need functional and technical experts to form a team and deliver the road map and then there will be mega bucks to be made by implementing the road map. It is not easy to visualize the entire business process of a MNC spread across multiple locations in the world, 1000s of process steps and flows, hundreds of process actors, stake holders, hundreds of existing automation systems already connected or working as silos etc etc. This is the business process consulting or solution engineering for most of the IT companies.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 14 Apr 2013 16:59

Sriman wrote:
At a lower level, one more high margin area is providing expertise with niche tools, skills etc. Expertise in MPP databases, BI tools,performance engg etc gets better billing rates
....
Provide subject matter expertise. Bigger service companies have a wide client base with projects spanning across multiple domains, so they have an opportunity to build a lot of subject matter expertise
....
Basically you build both subject matter and technology expertise through traditional services and then try to monetize the expertise in a better way.

Just picked a few thoughts from your post. A common thing which I see across all the three was that all involve heavily on the people front. It all boils down to how people are brought in, trained, allowed to gain expertise and then spread their knowledge. Do you feel that Most Revered Co. and Veg.Oil Co have failed on this? I mean they really dont have good people out there? A pal in one among the two companies was having a concern that when the experiences crossed 6 years as a techie, or 10 years as a manager the chances of continuing in the company is at risk. They really dont have so much projects which requires such level of expertise.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 14 Apr 2013 18:22

Sachin wrote: Just picked a few thoughts from your post. A common thing which I see across all the three was that all involve heavily on the people front. It all boils down to how people are brought in, trained, allowed to gain expertise and then spread their knowledge. Do you feel that Most Revered Co. and Veg.Oil Co have failed on this?

Not sure about Veg.Oil, so this would be Revered Co specific. I wouldn't say they've failed but they're definitely not able to improve it beyond a level. They're not able to compete with TCS on cost and scale yet they're not able to move into the higher value territory either. One more factor is that CTS has eaten into their market share. Having said that the days of consistent premium billing is probably over. Otherwise you'd have seen companies like Headstrong and Mindtree grow much bigger. People are willing to pay premium but only for areas where you're bringing in some value. They certainly seem to be working at restructuring the org accordingly. But it's not an easy thing to do with their size.

Sachin wrote: I mean they really dont have good people out there? A pal in one among the two companies was having a concern that when the experiences crossed 6 years as a techie, or 10 years as a manager the chances of continuing in the company is at risk. They really dont have so much projects which requires such level of expertise.

Actually there are plenty of projects where there is still good work available but mobility within the org is not easy. Delivery Managers tightly control their orgs and will not let good people move out easily. This is one thing they're trying to fix.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Apr 2013 18:39

while infy and wipro keep faltering, TCS sails on through the night like a dark Yamato, black smoke emanating from boilers running at full steam....banks of 3x18" barrels discharging salvo after salvo towards HMS Bangalore...secondary 8" guns adding to the volume of fire.

-----
Helped by all-round business growth, country's largest software exporter Tata Consultancy Services on Wednesday reported 22.1 per cent jump in net profit at Rs 3,596.9 crore for the March quarter, meeting expectations.

The company's net profit stood at Rs 2,945.5 crore reported in the same period a year ago.

Revenue for the fourth quarter endeed March 31, 2013 grew by 23.9 per cent to Rs 16,430.1 crore as against Rs 13,259.3 crore in the year ago period, according to the IFRS reporting.

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 17 Apr 2013 19:43

@ Sriman: Thanks for the insights. It was very good.

HCL has also posted a very good results. Around 73% increase in net profits. HCL might not be the size of Yamato but their results are impressive never the less.

Then again HCL is seems to be running very tight in terms of headcount with net shedding of around 731 jobs. First time i am seeing an IT services company giving a lesser head count. Probably the do not fill up vacancies which occur to due attrition. This might act a bad omen for all other campus recruits if every company going forward tries to emulate HCL model for hiring.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Apr 2013 20:25

We dont have a william halsey or raymond spruance onboard the bridge of hms bangalore. Our fleet commanders fight battles over vhf radio only.

It makes a difference between fighting admirals and paper pushers.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 18 Apr 2013 13:26

New H1-B visa law may shut door on techies
The Bill aims to deny visas to firms with more than 50 employees and that have 50 per cent or more employees already on this kind of visa.
H-1B fee hike plan rattles IT firms

A framework for comprehensive immigration reform proposed by a group of influential U.S. Senators has sent shockwaves through the Indian business community after it was revealed that it included measures to significantly hike the employer fees payable for H-1B visa applications amidst other steps to “crack down on abusers of the... system.”
......
For firms that employ 50 or more employees, depending on the percentage of their total workforce that are H-1B or L-1 employees, under the new system they would be liable to pay either $5,000 (30-50 per cent of existing employees with H-1B or L-1) or $10,000 (more than 50 per cent H1-B or L-1) in fees per additional worker in either of these two statuses.

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 18 Apr 2013 13:54

Sachin wrote: ......
For firms that employ 50 or more employees, depending on the percentage of their total workforce that are H-1B or L-1 employees, under the new system they would be liable to pay either $5,000 (30-50 per cent of existing employees with H-1B or L-1) or $10,000 (more than 50 per cent H1-B or L-1) in fees per additional worker in either of these two statuses.
[/i]

Additional $10,000 in fess is not a make or break stuff. Effectively it comes to only around $2,000 per year. Taking an average salary of $80K to $90K per year this is around 2% of the Salary which can be reduced from the pay package to pay for the extra visa cost. What will hurt is the different proposal by some senator to pay H1B graduates more than what equivalent american employees get. Even here it is difficult to quantify what 'equal' work experience would signify.

The stuff i am interested in is the easy citizenship cause for students who had their education in US (and falls within the STEM category). I only hope that it will be extended to Mujahids are currently doing studies or who have finished their studies already

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Apr 2013 21:28

Given this new immigration proposal, Indian IT will increasingly recruit from US colleges. The composition of their workforce will still be predominantly Indian, since the US graduate student body will also be overwhelmingly from India given the failure to expand university level education in India. In fact, there is scope for sponsoring college expenses in return for an agreement to work for the employer, just like how the US armed forces do with the GI bill.

Aside from some short term cost pressure, this is hugely positive in the long run, as the Indian IT workforce will be increasingly better educated.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2013 01:00

vivek_v wrote:Additional $10,000 in fess is not a make or break stuff. Effectively it comes to only around $2,000 per year. Taking an average salary of $80K to $90K per year this is around 2% of the Salary which can be reduced from the pay package to pay for the extra visa cost.

If done systematically, i.e. if instituted as company policy, then it would be against the law.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2013 01:03

vera_k wrote:Aside from some short term cost pressure, this is hugely positive in the long run, as the Indian IT workforce will be increasingly better educated.

except that they would be working for US companies and on track for GC/Citizenship. In effect they are lost to India. Their repatriating some money to India might balance out the brain drain aspect.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Apr 2013 02:47

matrimc wrote:
vera_k wrote:Aside from some short term cost pressure, this is hugely positive in the long run, as the Indian IT workforce will be increasingly better educated.
except that they would be working for US companies and on track for GC/Citizenship. In effect they are lost to India. Their repatriating some money to India might balance out the brain drain aspect.

I wont call my leaving India any brain drain (the real drainage sessions happened in Massa) but if my life is any indication

Profile: Typical BTech with 2-3 yrs of work experience in Desh
Time spent in US: say 10 yrs
Money/wealth sent to India: 20K per year = $200k = Rs 1 Crore.

I do not think this much wealth can be produced by all these average million+ H1B holders that came here to Massa.

This works out to be 10,00,000 crores over past 10-15 years. This is equivalent to India's Current GDP. Not all that is in cash remittances. Some of this is gold, electronics, computers and so on...

Don't underestimate US NRI contributions.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2013 03:37

Yes siree. That's why I said the following also in my post.

Their repatriating some money to India might balance out the brain drain aspect.

vina · Post by **vina** » 19 Apr 2013 07:31

Also what is TXX and CXX doing differently which the Most Admired Company or Vegetable Oil Company is not able to do especially on the staffing front which you have mentioned ? For the layman i could see approximately the same amount of people (eventhough i have no clue why so many people are needed) doing possibly the same type of work. Then what gives ?

What The Cheap Skate does differently from Most Revered and Veggie Oil is this . CheapSkate is well, exactly that, they pay literally nothing to folks staffed abroad , including getting the social security refund checks back from employees and paying them a $1000 or less per month . That probably changed for the better in the last few years I hope. But the key difference in terms of staffing efficiency is that El CheapSkate has it has a centralized pool called "MATC" , which is exactly like the "Employment Bureaus" of the former Soviet Union, where you don't choose what you want to do, but big brother tells you , that you need to do x,y ,z.

This means that since it is a centralized pool, at an org level, it is very efficient (basic operational math , with a random demand, since the VARIANCE is additive , for two depts facing std deviation of demand of say X, at an org level, if the demand is aggregated, they see it as sqrt(2)*X rather than 2X if the individual depts control the staffing). Historically, Most Revered and Veggie oil had individual depts controlling staffing and pool. This gave the dept level Jarnails and Karnails lot of clout and manpower, the margins were strong enough to cover that overhead and still come smelling of roses.

I think Veggie moved under the current CeeYee Ooh to the "Soviet" staffing model where there is fungibility, while Most Revered is still not doing so and is carrying a big bench and lower utilization.

A lot of push back comes back comes from the Karnails and Prig-e-Diyars running units, with spurious claims such that a Data Mining guy is "specialist" since he does data mining for "Finance", while the demand may currently be for a retail customer, so a data mining guy who is attached to "Finance" cannot be seamlessly staffed at a Retail Customer , because the Finance Prig-e-Diyar will not let his sidekick go in Most Revered, while in The Cheap Skate, it will happen seamlessly. In truth it is the true domain expert like an ex banker or an ex consumer guy hired from Bank of XX or Soapmaker Y who is not fungible and needs to stick to a vertical.

As for Other Income Cooker and Sar pe Neel Topi Yankee, but dil hai Hindustani, they are all, less than 20% net margin companies who I think have reached the limits of their business model. OIC is pretty stretched and is at the breaking point. Their growth has come from the commodity side of the business (is pretty asset heavy as well), tight lid on staffing, etc, all points to way down from here. This is their peak. The Dil Hai Hindustani guys (DHH) have a great franchise in Healthcare, which others are not as strong in , and that with the exposure to Finance , saw them have great times in the past few years, but they too are under serious stress and I think are going to stagnate here, (extremely top heavy as well).

So fundamentally it is this. Despite having utilization at around 10% less than the highest in the indsustry peers, Most Revered has higher margins (great business portfolio), much more number of levers to pull to get back to higher margins and growth, while OIC doesn't and the struggle for them will be to raise prices and the moment they do that, they loose market share. If you are looking at a 1 to 2 year time frame beyond the next quarter number , you know which stock to buy. You buy a company with better quality of revenues and management (and oh, OIC actively "manages" stock price, while Most Revered, doesn't but is customer focused, take the recent record of OIC with recruits and dharna, vs commentary from Most Revered on honoring every offer, and they did do that even last year and the previous year, ).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Apr 2013 07:39

^ all those companies poached people, customers etc from aSatyam company in a manner that wouldn't pass even the community college level corporate ethics class. Aak thooo on the leadership of those companies only. Interestingly >70% asatyamic customers stayed put.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 19 Apr 2013 08:29

TCS overall seems to be more user friendly of all the big three desi companies. After having worked in Wipro and Infy the feedback what I get from my buddies in TCS shows that they are far happier in TCS.

The perks, benefits and easy-go lifestyle makes it ideal after spending 10 years plus in the trenches dodging sniper fire.

I was on the verge of joining TCS before joining the my current company of baboons.

vina · Post by **vina** » 19 Apr 2013 08:54

RamaY wrote:^ all those companies poached people, customers etc from aSatyam company in a manner that wouldn't pass even the community college level corporate ethics class. Aak thooo on the leadership of those companies only. Interestingly >70% asatyamic customers stayed put.

I don't know where you get your info from,but the Bangalore duo had an explicit agreement not to poach either customers of people from Scam Co, for a certain period and they didn't (I know that for a fact). They displayed great ethics. I don't know about the Delhi and Mumbai based dudes.

vina · Post by **vina** » 19 Apr 2013 08:59

asgkhan wrote:TCS overall seems to be more user friendly of all the big three desi companies. After having worked in Wipro and Infy the feedback what I get from my buddies in TCS shows that they are far happier in TCS.

Yes and no. The guys who are 10+ years at TCS are happy generally, but the 1 to 10 year experience at TCS was generally miserable. With their "bond" (folks were harassed no end) and money grubbing ways, it was a terrible place to work in. But yes, if you stuck with them for 10 years, it is generally a decent place.

The perks, benefits and easy-go lifestyle makes it ideal after spending 10 years plus in the trenches dodging sniper fire.

You no make Dallahs in TCS, Rupees, yes and you could go AWOL for 2 months or so after a project without any problem those days (don't know the scene now) . So if you want high flying Munna life style, no TCS, but if you want a "backpacker" experience in the first 5 years after College and visit a whole lot of countries on company money and are willing to rough it out, yes, it has it's merits.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Apr 2013 21:59

Among the wide-ranging bill’s provisions:
• Raising the cap on the number of H-1B visas from 65,000 to 110,000 annually, with as many as 180,000 to be granted each year in the future.
• Raising the number of additional visas specifically for STEM advanced-degree holders from U.S. schools to 25,000 from the current 20,000.
• Requiring employers to pay higher wages for H-1B workers than under current law. (As now, they could not pay visa-holders more than the prevailing wage paid to native-born workers.)
• Requiring “H-1B dependent employers” — those who employ a disproportionate number of guest workers — to pay significantly higher wages and fees than normal users of the program. At present, the dependent-employer threshold stands at 15 percent of total headcount. This was one of the requirements that Facebook took aim against in its lobbying.
• Employers with 30 and 50 percent of their workforce made up of H-1B or L visa holders who do not have green-card petitions pending would pay an additional $5,000 fee per head.That fee would grow to $10,000 for employers with H-1Bs comprising 50 percent or more of its workforce.
• Companies would be required to advertise H-1B positions on a Labor Department website for 30 days before filling the position with an H-1B applicant.
• Increasing the allotment of green cards.
• Creating a “startup visa” for foreign entrepreneurs.
• Moving toward a points-based merit system in the visa process to favor education and skills over family status.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Apr 2013 01:19

vina wrote:
RamaY wrote:^ all those companies poached people, customers etc from aSatyam company in a manner that wouldn't pass even the community college level corporate ethics class. Aak thooo on the leadership of those companies only. Interestingly >70% asatyamic customers stayed put.
I don't know where you get your info from,but the Bangalore duo had an explicit agreement not to poach either customers of people from Scam Co, for a certain period and they didn't (I know that for a fact). They displayed great ethics. I don't know about the Delhi and Mumbai based dudes.

saar, insider info from both sides.. i have at least 50 peers who were delivery head/account manager level who went thru this process... i even ~~give~~know customer names, who poached whom and who got what...

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Apr 2013 03:36

Well again I have a completely different take on this poaching business ; first things first be it most honourable Co or the big shot from silicon valley they have a big ghanta to show for ethics they are out there to make money rest all is BS, every time I hear a seminar on corporate ethics by usual suspects my BS meter just goes bonkers. There are no ethics in the industry nada, zilch, ghanta. Having said that yes individuals do have ethics and it is people who make a company relatively good or bad as compared to other; that is why you will hear conlficting opinion about a company from different people, a company is only as good/bad as your boss or your team. When it comes to Poaching it is the COMPANIES which have put an unethical tag on poaching and for obvious reasons however as far as an individual is concerned if you look from his vantage point why should he limit himself because of some misplaced sense of so called ethics ? They are not bonded labour and should be free to make a informed decision based on what the prospective suiter has to offer. Companies which actually are very well secured and assured with what they do and how they treat their employees don't need this chootiyapa of BONDs, notice periods , some non poaching agreement they operate with an open door policy and fortunately there are still such companies in the industry.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 20 Apr 2013 15:42

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 646677.cms

70b sent home officially. It would be many folds more on the ground....The power of service delivery.....

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 21 Apr 2013 12:14

subhamoy.das wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 646677.cms

70b sent home officially. It would be many folds more on the ground....The power of service delivery.....

yup..Atleast 5 to 7 times 70 B will put that 350 to 500 B USD!! Long live the Indian financial foresight.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 21 Apr 2013 13:33

Altair wrote:
subhamoy.das wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 646677.cms

70b sent home officially. It would be many folds more on the ground....The power of service delivery.....
yup..Atleast 5 to 7 times 70 B will put that 350 to 500 B USD!! Long live the Indian financial foresight.

Why would it be many times 70 B unofficially? Most banks give much better rate than SBI of yesteryear and hawala transactions are tracked down. I don't see a big reason why people would send money outside official channels in large numbers.