Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

[Lalmohan]

yes she did, and she probably became pharoah after him. there is a small colour bust of nefertiti that i had the priviledge to see in an exhibition once - an absolutely stunning piece of sculpture, and if it is representative of the real person - she must have been totally hot!

[Murugan]

i am curious how and when dravid word became mainstream for playing divisive politics. Rajiv Malhotra says that it was during the time of Brutish that they played with Northies and Southies by opening a 'branch' each in north and south. They told something to guys in south about aryan invasion pushing them back and northies were fed other kind of BS.

Just cant fathom who actually fell for this propaganda first and developed it further. How many people actually consider themselves different from rest of India even after genetic studies not supporting such racial difference. I know there are some pockets in some parts who are still convinced and can even kill someone for this reason. Is there a check on such ideology and false propaganda being spread around.

I know people who were holding some corporate responsibilities in interior of some parts experiencing 'apartheid' because they dont know certain language - especially in govt offices of these stateS, but the general public especially the labourers and merchant class are totally different from their states' babus and welcome people from all walks of life. Do the intelligentsia far in south still believe in separate identity or they have now known the fallacy of such theories in light of new studies of genetics and history.

[Virendra]

Just cant fathom who actually fell for this propaganda first and developed it further. How many people actually consider themselves different from rest of India even after genetic studies not supporting such racial difference. I know there are some pockets in some parts who are still convinced and can even kill someone for this reason.

Politics Murugan ji .. politics !!
It is easy to break off with a small faction and feed them BS, instead of rising to the high level and leading a larger populace to glory.
Divisive politics is a favorite shortcut of the lazy, greedy breed of Netas.
They get doctrinal support from incomplete scholars with half backed academics.
Chor Chor Mausere Bhai !! (Thieves are always bond in brotherhood).

They got mob support from those pockets that you mentioned.
Because the right way, the all inclusive Indic way demands hard work, character iron-forged with impeccable civilizational values.
Divisive and extremist ideologies don't ask you to sweat so much. They just want you to do one thing. Hate !!

Every people have their share of Heroes and down trodden scoundrels.

Regards,
Virendra

[RajeshA]

Murugan ji,

Dravida simply means the Southern part of Bharatvarsha, while Gauda means the Northern part of Bharatvarsha with the Vindhya Range being the divider.

In fact Maharashtra too is part of Dravida. This is also understandable from the Pancha-Gauda and Pancha-Dravida Brahmin classification.

I think it is possible to start using Dravida as simply an Indian Region - everything south of the Vindhyas. It has got nothing to do with language or ethnicity as such, in which case it is funny that DMK is not present anywhere outside Tamil Nadu (and Puducherry).

[RajeshA]

Why the English "Mugger" has proto-Tamil roots?!

[Murugan]

^ This is another spin

I still dont understand why lingam = phallus.

Stri-ling = female phallus?
Pul-ling = male member?
napunsak-ling = no member?

wth? i always thought that ling = symbol, or a representation

***

something still puzzles me is this dravidian thing. How long is this going to haunt the general thinking of people, who have studied history only thru McAulay's eyes. It causes hell of a pain.

Why Rahul Dravid has caucasoid features and colour, like that imagined race Aryan?
If a person from Karnatak carried Dravid surname, call them Dravidians (or are they)?.

[ranjbe]

^ This is another spin

I still dont understand why lingam = phallus.

Stri-ling = female phallus?
Pul-ling = male member?
napunsak-ling = no member?

wth? i always thought that ling = symbol, or a representation

***

something still puzzles me is this dravidian thing. How long is this going to haunt the general thinking of people, who have studied history only thru McAulay's eyes. It causes hell of a pain.


Why Rahul Dravid has caucasoid features and colour, like that imagined race Aryan?
If a person from Karnatak carried Dravid surname, call them Dravidians (or are they)?.

Perhaps not a right analogy here. Rahul Dravid is of Marathi Desastha Brahmin descent. Desastha Brahmins are Dravida Brahmins with many having similar beliefs as Kannadiga Madhava Brahmins, as are many other Maharashtrian Brahmin jati's. But there are also Gaud Maharashtrian Brahmins, such as Gaud Saraswat Brahmins.

[RajeshA]

When, kundalini reaches gyana chakra, one acquires knowledge. It is as if the eye of knowledge opens up. The third eye of Shiva, in the forehead, signifies this. This knowledge destroys the ignorance and hence the world is said to be destroyed. The left eye is ruled by Moon, the right by sun, this third eye is ruled by Fire (Agni).

Shiva's third eye is the eye of knowledge. It is also the eye of fire(Agni). Shiva and Agni are denoted by upward triangle.



Now, shiva is denoted by the upward triangle. How would you represent Shiva's third eye?




Wiki:

The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is a symbol showing an eye often surrounded by rays of light or a glory and usually enclosed by a triangle. It is sometimes interpreted as representing the eye of God watching over humankind (or divine providence).[1][2][3] In the modern era, the most notable depiction of the eye is the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States, which appears on the United States one-dollar bill.

@00:07:40

Here one sees the eye of providence in a pyramid found in Ecuador



Another question is then whether Pyramids in general were supposed to be a representation of Shiva-Lingam? That would mean Egyptian, Mesoamerican, Peruvian, etc may in fact be based around this idea.

Though in all these civilizations the 3-D triangle of Shiva, the Pyramid, has been used for astronomy and hence unification of earth and the cosmic, they have often been huge, almost like one wanted to show one's reverence to Shiva, and the size was almost like the degree of one's reverence. However in India the Shivalingams have been "smaller", big enough as an object for meditation by a single person or by a small group, say a dozen people. Certainly these are not buildings, in which one can enter. Perhaps the other civilizations wanted to emphasize the aspect also that one could enter the Supreme, the Shiva.

Two things come to mind:

1) The Vedics often used to admonish Asuras that they are materialistic. From Rituals, Masks and Sacrifice by Subhash Kak

Viewed as independent agents, the asuras are materialists, content with the identity of the body with their self; this is described aptly in the dialogue between Prajapati, Virocana, and Indra (CU 8.7-14). The devas need to subdue the asuras to establish order. The asuras are older because the body comes first; the devas are the younger descendents of Prajapati

The asuras take the body to be everything, whereas the gods seek higher meaning. Without culture and self-discipline, we are pasu (animals).When our habits (pasa) that bind us down to our animal nature are broken, we become truly human (pasupati)

It can be for this reason that the asuras always used to build big.

2) The legend of Atmalinga which was acquired by Ravana from Shiva but on the way was tricked by Ganesha who let it touch ground and Ravana could not lift it, because it became too huge/heavy. Shows that Asuras were destined to have huge Shivalingams. Perhaps the allusion is to Pyramids.

[Murugan]

ranjbe saar

thanks for the info. Good to know that.

[Klaus]

Klaus, Now map the locations of Pisacha with the locations of mlechaa and see if there is a correspondence and the timing.

Wow! Thanks for the direction Ramana ji. Will get back to you on this.

[RajeshA]

johneeG ji,

when you find time, could you go into some details how triangles are used in our culture to represent Shiva (and Parvati) or Purusha-Prakruti.

Thanks

[RamaY]

Team reconstructs 'human ancestor'

The most complete view yet of a possible human ancestor uncovered in South Africa has revealed an intriguing mix of human and ape traits.

The two-million-year-old remains of several partial skeletons belonging to a previously unknown humanlike species were found in 2008 near Johannesburg.

The new analysis shows this species - Australopithecus sediba - had a human-like pelvis, hands and teeth, and a chimpanzee-like foot.

The findings appear in Science journal.

In six separate research reports, scientists probed further into the anatomy of a juvenile male skeleton, commonly referred to as MH1, a female skeleton, known as MH2, and an isolated adult tibia or shinbone, known as MH4.

The specimens were found at Malapa in the famous Cradle of Humankind World Heritage Site, just to the northwest of Johannesburg.

They were pulled from a pit - a depression left in the ground by a cave complex that lost its roof through erosion.

Scientists think the female and male could well have been mother and son.

It seems they died together in some tragic accident that saw them either fall into the cave complex or become stuck in it. After death, their bodies were washed into a pool and cemented in time along with the skeletons of many other animals - sabre-tooth cats, hyenas, antelope, even birds and mice.

The individuals from Malapa fall within a broad group known as the australopithecines, upright-walking humanlike creatures that roamed Africa between four million and two million years ago.

An analysis of Au. sediba's lower limb anatomy by Jeremy DeSilva from Boston University and colleagues suggests that the species walked in a unique way.

Its small heel resembles that of a chimpanzee more than it does a human. This suggests it likely walked with an inward rotation of the knee and hip, with its feet slightly twisted.

This primitive way of walking might have been a compromise between upright walking and tree climbing, the researchers suggest, since Au. sediba seems to have had more adaptations for tree-climbing than other australopithecines.

The findings suggest that some species of australopithecine climbed trees, some walked on the ground, and some did both.

Remember the stories of Rama being 8ft tall and Ajaanubahu?

[Klaus]

It strikes me as odd that all hominin species and sub-species are being found only across/restricted to Eurasia+Africa. There were plenty of climate induced events over the last 2 million years to have prompted migration to the Americas.

The Brian Foerster video has a factual mistake: the cranial volume of a modern human is not a 1100 cc, its ~1400 cc. The Paracas have a larger skull but that need not actually translate into increased cranial volume.

However, that video is out of the box because it broaches the often uncomfortable topic of species other than our own evolving to a level to establish civilizations and coercing the audience to imagine alternative scenarios in a society arising from such a civilization.

Aside: Is Paraguay named after these Paracas (Paragas)?

[Klaus]

BTW, there are interesting connections between skull elongation carried out to hyper-activate the pineal gland, the third eye, triangles and triangulation.

On a completely different note, have we explored the etymology and possible origins of the word 'Caspian', possibility that it could be linked to Rishi Kashyapa (Kashyap Sagar). Possible domains and feuding grounds of Rishis Bhrigu, Atri and Angirasa and their later clans.

So the Malekhas could have been based west of the Indus, settled along portions of the paleo-Caspian and the Gulf coast, migrating into the Fertile Crescent, Syria and Turkey when the Caspian retreated and the salt-pans of Iran formed.

This is of geographic importance too as the salt pans of Iran (the Irana/Irin) could be a remnant of a former seabed of a larger Caspian basin, which was linked to the world ocean prior to tectonic and climate events isolating the Caspian and Aral Sea basins. This would imply that the paleo-climate of the region between the Karakoram and the Caspian would have supported deciduous forests and isolated settlements across AFG, Iran and Turkmenistan.

[RajeshA]

@0:38:02



One among the artifacts presented by Klaus Dona about archaeological findings in Ecuador in 1984.

Seven concentric circles. It does remind one of the Seven Continents of the Bharatiya Cosmology.

[Prem]

Vedic Cosmology - Mysteries of the Sacred Universe
Xactly matching Corcles at 45.09

[Virendra]

Dr. Premendra Priyadarshi's latest blog post.

The Indian Discoveries of Sciences and the Story of their Migration to West
http://priyadarshi101.wordpress.com/201 ... n-to-west/

I had come to know during my childhood itself that our country had had zero, advanced mathematics and physical sciences since before the Common Era.
However, I too, like others had thought that it died in India without further evolution and that the West had independently invented the science which brought the modern age of education and enlightenment.
Quite naively, like many others, I too thought that probably the Christianity itself had the scientific temper which had been responsible for the renaissance of the mankind.
....
....
In 1998,I was window-shopping a bookshop at Louth in England, where on the shelf I found a book by David E. Duncan titled The Calendar. It was from this book that I learnt that all the science of the West was due to a direct transmission of the Sanskrit texts from India to Baghdad where it was translated into Arabic. It was from there that the texts were further transported to Spain where they were re-translated to Latin and that became the starting point of science for the West.
....
....
Story of knowledge - http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connection ... wledge.php
....
....

Regards,
Virendra

[RajeshA]

Books for the Library



India's Contributions to the West: The Story of Origin of Mathematics, Science and Philosophy in India and Its Dispersal to the West Leading to Development of Modern Age
Author: Dr. Premendra Priyadarshi
Publication Date: 2004

Description
India was the mother of all civilizations in often said by many. But little significant research or reliable writing has ever been done to substantiate this fact. India's contributions to the West primarily discusses how India has been a source of knowledge to the West over ages. Even the growth of modern sciencs in the West, called the Renaissance was a direct result of flow of Indian kinowledge to the West. Kanaka, an Indian scientist from the Sind province of India landed in the court of Caliph at Mansur in Baghdad with a diplomatic delegation in 773 AD along with a treasure trove of Indian scientific manuscripts in Sanskrit. He discussed the contents of the book with the Caliph. The Caliph was amazed at the scientific knowledge of the books and immediately ordered translation of the books. The book touches these various issues in brief. The facts have been well substantiated with approapriate references.

About Author
Dr. Priyadarshi, MBBS, MD, MRCP UK, a physician by education has studied history, philosophy, anthropology and many other independently. As a student he had a distinguished career and he received distinction in physics and chemistry.

Code: Select all

Contents:
________
Introduction
The Dark Age in Europe
Ancient Indian Tradition of Science, Knowledge and Modernism, and its Decline
Later Indian Influence on the West in the Early BC Period
Dawn of Knowledge in the West with Pythagoras Turning Hindu
Alexandria University: A Centre for Indo Greek Learning
Origin of Christianity and Threats to Alexandria
Destruction of Greece and Alexandria
Transfer of Knowledge from India to Arabic Language (Baghdad)
Translation of Non Science Hindu Literature into Arabic and Persian
Knowledge moves west
India`s Contributions to the Science of Psychology
Other Indian contributions to West
The story of Calander

Zero is Not the Only Story: Ancient India's Contribution to Modern Sciences
Author: Dr. Premendra Priyadarshi
Publication Date: 2007

Description
Indian civilisation stream was impeded for several centuries. It struggled and survived through tornado of Islamic and Imperial invasion, which blew other civilizations to smithereens. Efforts to revitalize, revive and reassert this great civilisation and restore the continuity were made by Rishis, Mahatmas and intellectuals of this ancient land for over a century, which accelerated the process and led the road to freedom. Unfortunately, the ideal of Ram Rajya set by Mahatma Gandhi, which provided the ideological basis of our freedom, became anathema to the post independent polity, politicians, intellectuals and establishments.

Code: Select all

Contents:
________
Indian Mathematics
Indian Astronomy
Cosmology: Origin of Universe
Indian Physics
Chemistry in Ancient and Medieval Indian
Indian Medicine
Psychology in Ancient India and Its Influence on Modern Psychology
Biological Sciences in Ancient India

[RajeshA]

Published on Oct 18, 2012
Origin of the Light Sivalensis type Horse from India

Linguistic, archaeological and DNA Evidence favouring origin of some breeds of the Domestic Horse “Equus caballus” from India

“Equus sivalensis is the oldest true horse known, it has more highly specialised teeth than the Oreston and Newstead ponies. After Lydekker. Palaeontologia Indica, Ser. x. vol. ii.” (Ewart 1911: 366)

Abstract:
Cognate words of the Sanskrit asva (PIE *akwa) are found in nine out of the ten branches the Indo-European family of languages, indicating that the original Indo-European homeland had horse. Although horse bones have been found from the archaeological remains of the Indus Valley Civilization, the oldest domesticated “true horse” bones too have been recovered from India from 8000 BP layer, and wild from 20,000 years back.

The DNA studies of horse shows that the Aryan-horse association is a myth, and that the horse was domesticated at many places. Archaeology shows that the Central Asians were late to use horse, say about 50 AD, and the Central Asian Bactria-Margiana-Archaeological Complex had no horse at all. Thus there was an archaeological disconnect between the Ukrainian and the South Asian horse domestications, meaning that horse was domesticated independently at the two places. This is consistent with the DNA findings.

The Indian sivalensis horse has survived as many modern breeds of horse, and the Arabic, the Thoroughbred of Europe and the Blood races have evolved from the sivalensis. There is a geographical population structuring of Indian horses, indicating that the Indian horses are indigenous and have not been imported.

The Light Race Horse of Indian Origin

Azzaroli (1985:94) noted that the Indian domestic caballus horse recovered from 1200 BCE horse burials at Katelai (Swat, India) belonged to the “eastern” breed which was different “from the Bronze and Iron Age horses of Eastern and Central Europe and recalls some horses from Etruscan tombs: presumably it belongs to some oriental strain.”

The “eastern breed” certainly refers to the sivalensis horse (discussed elsewhere in this article). The Etruscan horses from Populonia and Castro from the first millennium BCE resemble the Swat horse and do not resemble the Bronze or Iron Age horse from north Italy and the rest of Europe as well as the Pleistocene horse of the same area (Azzaroli 1985:146).

Fig. 1 Etruscan teracotta Horse. Note the long neck and downward bent head, the features of Sivalensis type.

The sixth century BCE horse burials at Padova (Padua, north Italy) resemble the Swat burial in style (Azzaroli:137). This horse breed must have been brought by the Etruscans arriving to Italy from West Asia where it had in all probability arrived with some Indo-Aryan arrival to West Asia like the Mittani. This finding implied that the Indian horse had migrated to southern Europe from India. That this horse and chariot had not arrived to India from West Asia is made explicit by Azzaroli, who found that the Indian chariots were different from the West Asian ones (ibid). The Swat petroglyph chariots are same in style as that of Central Asia and the steppe.

Thus it becomes clear that the light horses originated from India and the European horses were heavy, the fact made clear by Azzaroli in his book. This fact accords well with the Burgman’s Rule, which states that the animal’s of colder regions have heavier body size.

The only horse depiction detected from BMAC is a seal (below; source David Anthony’s Blog, also cited in Anthony 2009) with a horse-rider. The horse in it is clearly of the Etruscan type, which is no different from the Marwari type (see below).

Fig. 2 A BMAC (Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex; 2100-1750 BCE) horse, the lone horse depiction from the BMAC

Fig. 3. A Marwari Indian Horse

On the other hand the Kazakh breed of horse is heavy, with shorter legs.

Fig. 4. A modern Kazakh native breed of Horse

It contrasts with the Harappa horse figurines which were light:

Fig. 5. Mohenjo-Daro horse: See whether it resembles the ancient Etruscan and modern Marwari horses, or resembles the steppe and Kazakh horses

The steppe horse was like zebra.

[*]http://aryaninvasionmyth.files.wordpres ... .jpg?w=460 Fig. 6. Teracotta figurine from Mohenjo-Dar, identified by Mackay as horse. Mackay, Further Excavations at Mohenjo-Daro (from Shendge’s book).

Fig. 7. Stone Age Horse from Europe, resembling the steppe horse. It was not tall, but more like zebra. Ewart, 1909, p. 363.

Fig. 8. A typical steppe horse: Przewalski mare. Ewart 1909, p. 363.

Kazakh ancient horses as depicted on the petroglyphs were stout and with shorter legs:

Fig. 9. Kazakh steppe ancient horse as depicted in the rock art

Fig. 10. The Pirak horse was light and resembled Mohenjo-Daro horse, but not the Kazakh steppe horse (pictures from M.J. Shendge’s book)

European horse was heavy (Bergman’s rule) with shorter legs (Allen’s Rule) example being the Shetland Pony :

Fig. 11. A Shetland Pony: A native European horse.

The Zarevshan horse from Zardcha-khalifa resembled the Przewalski horse, and could not have been the ancestor of the Pirak horse:

Fig. 12. Zardcha Khalifa horse: source Parpola in Bryant’s book.

Indo-European Linguistics: Horse from water

The PIE root-word for horse ek̂u̯o-s (Pokorny:301-302) has been derived from another PIE root akwā-, ǝkwā or ēkw- (Pokorny:23) meaning “water, river, sea”. Starostin (p. 824) thinks that the horses were sacrificed to the sea-god (for navigational safely), hence they got named after “water”. However, sacrifices evolved in civilizations much later than language, and the words for animals like horse must have been coined much before any sacrificial rituals came into practice. Hence this view, is at best a good folk-etymology, and cannot be true. We need to search a different relationship between sea and horse.

Rig-Vedic Account Consistent with Linguistic theory

The derivation ek̂u̯o-s (horse) from akwā (water) is not understandable unless we take into account the Rig-Vedic mention that horse came from the ocean. Rig-Veda 1.163 (Hymns for the Horse) says:

1. What time, first springing into life, thou neighedst, proceeding from the sea or upper waters, Limbs of the deer hadst thou, and eagle pinions. O Steed, thy birth is nigh and must be lauded.

4. Three bonds, they say, thou hast in heaven that bind thee, three in the waters, three within the ocean. To me thou seernest Varuna, O Courser, there where they say is thy sublimest birth-place.

The abode of Varuna, the God of waters, is in the Arabian Sea. The foregoing is a picturesque description of retreating horses from the submerging coasts of the Gulf of Cambay in the Arabian Sea following the sea-level rise after the LGM. Just after the Last Glacial Maximum, about 16,000 years back, the sea-level started rising, forcing the coastal fauna, which included the wild horse, into mainland. It may be noted that the horse does not want to live in dense forests (Linlater), and it must have lived on the coasts in large numbers in India. Clearly, this would have given impression to the people at that time that the horses were coming out of the sea. Our studies have indicated that the earliest portions of the Rig-Veda pertain to the end of the Last Glacial Maximum.

This is a literary evidence for presence of wild horse in India during or just after the Last Glacial Maximum. We have to examine whether it corroborates well with archaeology. Examination of archaeology and geology shows that the common notion among the historians that India did not have horse before 1500 BCE is no more than an untruth spoken thousand times taking shape of a fact.

Evidence from Indian Archaeology

Paleontological and archaeological evidence shows that the wild horses were widely distributed all over Europe and Asia throughout the Upper Palaeolithic period between 10,000 BP and 35,000 BP. India was a principal home of horse during that period.

At Imamgaon, 80 kilometers east of Poona, 20,000 years old radiocarbon dated level yielded wild animal skeletons including Equus namadicus and Equus sivalensis (Badam:413), the types belonging to “caballus” species. The latter breed was ancestral to many of the domesticated horse lineages of today like the Arabic horse and the Thoroughbred horse (vide infra). Equus caballus, hemionus and other species have been found from Aq Kupruk of Afghanistan dating back from 8,000 to 16,000 BP (Meadow:25-26). Wild true horse bones were found from 20,000 BP strata of Bolan and Son valleys (G.R. Sharma:110 ff.; Kazanas 1999:33-34), and domesticated horse bones from dates 8500 BP and 6500 BP of the Bolan and Son valleys (Sharma:110 ff.). R.S. Sharma (1996:17) too noted domesticated horse bones from Mahagara Neolithic complex of 7000 BP and Bagor (Rajasthan) 6500 BP (R.S. Sharma:16). However he prefers to ignore them and overall supports invasion by the Aryans on horse-chariots.

In view of the findings of the domesticated “true” horse bones from the Central India (Mahagara, Bolan and Son Valleys) dating back to 8500 BP to 6500 BP, the pre-agricultural hunter (Mesolithic) society as depicted in the Bhimbetka Rock Paintings should be dated 8,000 BP or older. Unfortunately, the paintings have been dated later than 3,500 BP because they contain horse in it and the general view of the historians does not accept horse in India before the Aryan Invasion date of 3,500 BP.

Bhimbetka rock painting

While Equus caballus was present ubiquitously in all sites from Asia and Europe, it was accompanied by one smaller species of Equus which was different for Asia and Europe. In Asia, it was Equus hemionus which was found along with Equus caballus, whereas in Europe it was Equus hydruntinus (Forsten and Sharapov:309). Forsten and Sharapov found that this general formula was broken at Palestine and Tajikistan, where all the three species of horse were found at about 15,000 years back. It may be noted that the generic term Equus caballus included many varieties or races of horse. For India, it was generally sivalensis and namadicus, while for Europe it was generally the stenonis. Although, the namadicus and the sivalensis are the same race of wild caballus horse, yet there are slight differences. Forsten and Sharapov noted that the namadicus horse was larger, and comparatively younger in archaeological findings than the sivalensis (ibid.:310).

During the glacial peak between 25,000 and 19,000 years ago, and then again between 12,700 and 11,500 years ago, there was extreme cold and aridity in the northern latitudes of Eurasia, and also in the West Asia and Iran. There were no herbs for the horses to feed on in the Ukrainian and Turkestani tundra climate of the Last Glacial Maximum. Most of the horses of Eurasia died during these cold and arid periods (Achilli:4 of pdf version). Following warming of climate, horse population re-expanded from some eastern location (ibid). It is possible that the relatively cold adapted Przewalskii’s horse may have survived in Ukraine during the Last Glacial Maximum. However DNA studies have proved that these horses have nothing to do with our domesticated or the “caballus” horse, which have descended from other Asian and European races, but not from the Przewalskii’s horse of the steppe region (Achilli et al).

Yet India, the Iberian Peninsula of Europe and the Southeast Asia were the places where climate was not so bad and horses survived in these refugia, and flourished during the Last Glacial maximum (Warmuth). Thus after the end of the LGM up to 10,000 years before present India was a prime home of the wild horses.

Today, the Rann of Cutch is a place on the western coast of Gujarat, where there is a natural habitat for wild horses and asses, and ghur (Equus hemionus) is found in the wild there. Before 10,000 BP, wild “true horses” of sivalensis type were found in India widely. It is claimed that they became extinct after 10,000 BP. However, no one mentions how, or why they became extinct. Extinction of Equus sivalensis did not occur because of any climatic difficulty in India.

The wild stock of Equus sivalensis became extinct largely because of dense anthropization of India about 10,000 BP, leading to loss of habitat to the wild horses. Added to this, regular hunting for food, as well as regular capturing for domestication led to extinction of the wild stock of the Equus sivalensis. However, the gene of the wild Equus sivalensis survives today in the domesticated horses of India, Arabia, Southeast Asia and Europe.

Hence the supposed extinction of the wild sivalensis from India at 10,000 BP, does not allow another assumption that at 10,000 BP, India became devoid of all horses, and that there were no domesticated horse in India after that time.

The Post-Glacial Indian Population Expansion, and the exit route out of India

Following the glacial phase, the sea-level started rising shifting the coastal population to the interior (Soares, 2008:). It was a massive shift of population, and its effect was most marked near the Gulf of Cambay. The better climate (warmer and humid) also led to enhanced food availability leading to population growth. Because of these two factors, the carrying capacity of South Asia became saturated, and some of the population was forced to migrate out.

The route of migration out of India between 16,000 BP and 10,000 BP has been deciphered with the help of DNA technology. The human Y-chromosomal haplogroup R1a1a (M17) was studied by Underhill et al. They found its population expansion at about 16,000 BP in Gujarat, India, and spread through southern Central Asia to the north Black Sea region in the next few thousand years.

Fig. 13. Origin and migration of R1a1a (M17), after LGM. Source Underhill et al, 2009.

The study of DNA of domestic mouse sub-species Mus musculus musculus also provides a route map for mice, going out of India to the north Black Sea region, almost at the same time.

Fig. 14. Migration route of domestic mouse sub-species Mus musculus musculus, marked ‘m’. Source: Boursot 1996

Fig. 15. Another DNA study showing migration route of Mus musculus musculus (on the top side towards the north Black Sea region. Source: Bonhomme.

Fig. 15. Composite route map of migration of man (R1a1a lineage) and mice (Mus musculus musculus) out of India to the north Black Sea region, just following the Last Glacial Maximum. This seems to be the common route for many other migrations like that of wild horse.

We have seen that the human migration just after the LGM was accompanied with mouse, yet perhaps it was not accompanied by domesticated animals like cattle and horse. The Indian wild horses (sivalensis) must have too followed the same route of migration to the steppe, yet there is evidence that the Russians and the Ukrainians did not get the proper Indo-European word for horse “akwa” (PIE) or aśva (Old Indian).

This is probably because the horse had not been domesticated by that time. Hence the Ukrainian word for horse is kin’. Words for horse in other Slavic languages are: Old Church Slavonic kon”ь “horse”, Russian kon” “horse”, Czech ku̥ň “horse”, koně, Slovak kôň “horse”, koňa, Polish koń “horse”, Serbo-Croatian kòńj “horse”, Slovene kònj “horse” (Starostin:825). Had Indo-European origin and domestication of horse occurred in the Ukrainian steppe, the Slavic languages must have had the word akwa- or asva. No cognate word outside the Slavic branch has so far been suggested for the word konj. Sanskrit kuJjara (kunjara) is a suitable candidate. Kunjara means “one which moves in the orchards, or an elephant.

The words for horse in Lithuanian (arklys, arklinis), Latvian (zirgs), and Estonian (hobun, hobu) too are not from akwa. Yet some words in the Old Lithuanian were from this root: O.Lith. ašva, ešva “mare”, Lith. ašviénis “stallion”, family name Ašvine and Ašva.

Another notable point in the last figure is the fact that from East Iran to the north Pontic (Black Sea) region, the area over the route was occupied by the Scythians, an East Iranian linguistic group. Even the Kurgan culture of Ukraine (about 6000 years BP) has been identified with the Scythians (an East Iranian tribe). This link of north Pontic region with the East Iranian can only be explained by accepting that the route from East Iran to the north Pontic region was used for migration later also.

In the north Pontic and Caspian region, we get river and place names based on Indian or Iranian river-name or places respectively e.g. Don R. (after Danu R. Iran); Danube R. (after Danu R. Iran); Dnieper R. and Dniester R. (after Danu nazdya); Tyras R. (after Tūra, Tvara rapid); Jamna / Yamna for Black Sea (after Yamuna/ Jamuna the black river of India); Volga (Sanskrit Rasā River MW:870 > Scythian Rā > Russian Volga).

Where was the horse domesticated: the DNA Evidence?

Contrary to the general belief that the horse was domesticated from the Przewalskii wild horse by the Aryans, at their homeland located somewhere in the Eurasian steppe, latest DNA evidence suggests widespread horse domestication, and that too exclusively from non-Przewalskii wild horses, indicating that either the Aryan home was not in the Central Asian steppe, or that the Aryan-horse correlation is a myth, or both.

Wild horses ancestral to the modern caballus horses lived in India and Spain as survivors of the glacial peak. In other parts of Eurasia, any horse population must have died during the Last Glacial peak (20,000 BP to 16,000 BP). Study by Solis et al (2005) showed that many horse breeds of the Iberian Peninsula are autochthonous and have been domesticated in Europe itself. They are not connected with any Aryan arrival. Pottoka is the purest lineage of the Basque horses in northern Spain (Solis:677). Another study using the DNA technology found that at least one breed of horse was domesticated in Spain much before Indo-European linguistic arrival to the area (Achilli et al 2011:4 pdf).

Trashing older beliefs, the DNA study of Achilli et al noted that two of the horse lineages (i.e. F and pre-JK) were found exclusively in the Przewalskii, meaning thereby that the Przewalskii is not the wild ancestor of the Asian and European horses, otherwise these DNA lineages (F and pre-JK) would have been found in the caballus i.e. true horses too (ibid: 3). Achille thus concluded, “This finding also supports evidence from other studies that the Przewalskii’s horse is not the mtDNA source for the domestic horse” (ibid). Weinstock et al (2005) found by DNA analysis that the “true horse” is closely related with the American slit-legged horse and the Asian hemionus horses, and that is distant genetically from the Przewalskii horses.

Hence earlier clubbing of the Przewalskii horse with the caballus or “true horse” was unfortunate, and genetically speaking Przewalskii horses are not “true horses”. The Przewalskii has 66 chromosomes, where as the “true horses” have 64 chromosomes. They two are actually two species. On the other hand, all available evidence suggests that the Indian horse sivalensis was and its descendant modern Indian horses are “true horses” and have contributed genes to most of the domesticated caballus horse races of the modern world (vide infra).

Moreover evidence from Weinstock’s study (supra) makes it clear that the surviving Indian Wild Ass ghur (Equus hemionus of the Runn of Cutch) is genetically closer to the domesticated horses (caballus) than are the Przewalskii wild horse of Central Asia.

This, apart from Tibetan kulan, is the closest surviving wild relative of modern “true horse” in the Old World. Skeletons of extinct “true” horse viz. Equus namadicus (Falconer and Cautley 1849; Sonakiya and Biswas 1998) and Equus sivalensis (Falconer and Cautley 1849) have been recovered from India. This is consistent with the DNA studies which suggest that the modern Indian “true horses” are autochthonous to India, and the morphological studies which suggest that the Equus sivalensis was one of the ancestors of the “true horse”.

The Central Asia ranging from the north Black Sea to Mongolia was the original home of wild Przewalskii’s horse. Hence it may be safely inferred that the Central Asia or the Steppe-Region was not the place of early domestication of horse, otherwise the Przewalskii’s would have got domesticated, not the non-Przewalskii horses.

By DNA study of living horses, Vila et al (2002) and Jansen et al (2002) were able to demonstrate that the theory of a regional domestication of horse by Aryans was wrong and that the horses were domesticated at a large number of places from local wild horses throughout Eurasia. Tatjana (2008) found that by 6000 years before present or the Bronze Age both wild and domesticated horses had been widespread over Europe and Asia. It may be noted here that most of the populations of Eurasia were not agricultural societies then, even though technologically, the period may be within the age of farming. Most of the populations depended on hunting, and horse was essentially a hunting help. Assistence from dog and horse combine perfected the art of hunting, leading to more and more live captures of the prey, leading to birth of pastoralism.

DNA study of fossil and living wild and domesticated horses by Kavar (2005) showed that there had been many centres for recruitment of horses for domestication, thus contradicting any compulsory association of the horse domestication and Aryans. In effect, this trashes the Kurgan hypothesis too. By this time, there is a huge collection of such reports and reviewing them all is beyond the scope of this article.

Lindgren and colleagues (2004) found in their DNA study that although wild mares had been recruited from all over Eurasia, on the male side only one male had been recruited, from whose breed all the domesticated horses have descended. This male was not the Central Asian Przewalskii, because the latter had split from the modern horse lineage about 120,000 years back. Possibly this progenitor male was of Tarpan or related wild type. However, with the death of the last living wild horse of Eurasia the Tarpan, today we are not in a position to ascertain the location of the wild male progenitor of modern horses. Yet one thing is sure that this male horse had descended from a stallion line originating from a southern location, either the Iberian Peninsula or the South India after the end of glaciations.

DNA analysis shows that all modern “true horses” (i.e. excluding donkeys and zebras) have descended from a single gene pool of Pleistocene horses. There was a large scale extinction of horse lineages during the Last Glacial Maximum (20,000 to 16,000 years back). Horses survived the bad glacial period in the southern locations of Eurasia (Iberian Peninsula and India). West Asia and Iran were extremely arid cold deserts (James and Petraglia: S7), and were not habitable for horses during this period.

Indian horses have generally been excluded from the DNA studies of domestication of horse, thanks to the strong belief in the Aryan-Horse Invasion Theory. However some studies have only recently been conducted that show that the Indian horse breeds are autochthonous.

Behl et al (2007) studied DNA of five Indian caballus horse breeds viz. Marwari, Spiti, Bhutia, Manipuri and Zanskari vis-à-vis the European Thoroughbred horse. The result showed that the genetic distance varied as the geographical distance between the lineages. There is a geographical structuring of the horse breeds in India. This type of finding necessarily means that the breeds under question have evolved in their present location over a very long period of time, and also that they have not been imported from outside.

This finding means that these Indian horse breeds are indigenous of India living in their respective places for a very long period of time. A DNA study of the Spiti horses of the Himachal Pradesh showed that this domesticated breed of the “true horse” has been well in place in the region for a very long time, much before the assumed date of Aryan Invasion on India (Chauhan et al). This finding is consistent with other studies demonstrating that the Indian sivalensis horse gave birth to many horse lineages of India and abroad (vide infra).

Equus sivalensis of India

“Equus sivalensis of the Siwalik deposits of Northern India, is the oldest true horse known to science” (Ewart 1909:393). He again wrote, “Equus sivalensis is the oldest true horse known, it has more highly specialised teeth than the Oreston and Newstead ponies.” (Ewart 1911:366). This is not an isolated view. This has been the considered opinion of the equinologists of the last two centuries, before Wheeler gave the horse-invasion theory in 1930.

J.A. Thompson (1922:1109) wrote “One of these, which flourished during Pliocene times, was a slender-limbed species, standing about 15 hands high, and having a broad forehead and tapering face, and certain peculiarities of the molar teeth. This type is represented by the Siwalik horse (Equus sivalensis). The Arab may be a descendant of this stock.”

In 1916, the New York Academy of Science noted (Annals:310), “A possible contributory to the desert breed of the Pleistocene and of the modern domesticated horses is the animal of the E. sivalensis type of the Upper Pliocene in the Siwaliks of India. This animal is tall, with long, fairly slender limbs, long neck, well elevated tail, long face, which is strongly deflected on the cranium with a slightly convex profile and broad brow, and teeth with a narrow protocone.”

Ewart (1909:392) noted, “Of the possible ancestors of the domestic breeds, the following may be mentioned:– Equus sivalensis, E. stenonis, E. gracilis (Owen’s Asinus fossilis), E. namadicus, E. fossilis and E. robustus.” … (p. 393) “It used to be said that E. sivalensis could not be regarded as an ancestor of domestic horses because of the shortness of the anterior pillar of the cheek teeth. I find, however, that in some modern horses, the anterior pillars are decidedly shorter than in E. sivalensis, and that in some of the short-pillared domestic horses the face is nearly as strongly deflected on the cranium as in E. sivalensis. There is hence no longer any reason for assuming that this ancient Indian species had no share in the making of domestic breeds. But in the absence of a large and representative collection of skulls of domestic horses, it is impossible to say which modern breeds are most indebted to the large-headed, long- limbed race, which in Pliocene times frequented the area to the east of the Jhelum River, now occupied by the Siwalik Hills. Mr. Lydekker thinks E. sivalensis or some closely allied race ” may have been the ancestral stock from which Barbs, Arabs and Thoroughbreds are derived.””

“Equus sivalensis of India was a tall, broad-browed horse characterized by a long tapering deflected face and an inter-orbital prominence, a long neck, high withers and a high-set-on tail.” (United States Bureau Report: 174). The US Bureau report suggested that like the Arab and the Indian horses, which descended from the sivalensis, the latter too may have been a fleet race characterized by an indomitable disposition (ibid:174). The Report noted the features of the Indian Siwalik horse in the following words: “light as well as heavy horses characterized by long pointed ears and a prominence between the eyes, by a long deflected face, high withers (shoulder ridge), and a high-set-on tail include horses of the Siwalik type as their ancestor” (174). This is the description of a classical horse. Most of the high quality horses would fit in this description.
These findings go well with the earlier findings that many of the caballus horses of Europe have descended from Equus stenonis, which was a close relative of Equus sivalensis (Ewart), and that most of the caballus horses of Asia have descended from the Indian horse sivalensis. These two were different from the Central Asian Przewalskii horse. Ponies too of both Asia and Europe are caballus in status, and are most closely related to the sivalensis and stenonis. Indian horse breeds of today like Marwari, Manipuri, Spiti and Bhutia exhibit features of sivalensis and have most likely been domesticated from it.

There is evidence that the sivalensis horses were taken along with the Neolithic migrations from India to the Southeast Asia and the Philippines. Paterno (1981:396) noted, “This contention is based on some isolated preservation of E. sivalensis traits. However, rather fully-sivalensis types have been described from Neolithic strata (8000-4000 BCE) at Lemery, Batangas in the Philippines together with dog remains.” Alba (1994) too notes that the E. sivalensis features are still found in the horses of the so-called “Sulu Horse” and its relatives in Borneo, Sumatra and Malacca. This description implies domestication of sivalensis horse in India before 8000 BCE (10,000 BP).

Ewart (1911) presented a good discussion on the Indian Equus sivalensis and found that this particular wild horse has made a large contribution to modern “true horse” or caballus population of the world. The Thoroughbred breed which is used worldwide today for racing, hunting, polo etc is descended from Equus sivalensis (Ewart:369).

Certain breeds of modern British racehorses have descended from Newstead horse which was a connecting link between the modern British horse breeds and the Indian sivalensis (ibid:370). The Barb breed of North African coast and also the so called Arab breed of horse in fact are descendants of the Equus sivalensis (ibid:369). Lydekker, another specialist of equine breeds too opined that the horses of Arabia, North African coast and the Thoroughbred breed have descended from the Indian Equus sivalensis. (quoted in ibid:369; also Lydekker:19-21). Lydekker, and also Ray Lankester, found that the “blood-horse” too was of Indian origin. (quoted in The Origin and Influence of Thoroughbred Horse, CUP Archives.). This is logical. The term blood-horse is a short form for “warm-blooded horse”.

Manansala (p. 396) notes, “In other words, Lydekker now realizes that all the modern breeds are not characterized by long-pillared molars, and says that there is a probability that Barbs, Arabs and Thoroughbreds are descended from Equus sivalensis”. He further adds, “However, rather fully sivalensis types have been described from Neolithic strata (8000-4000 BCE) at Lemery, Batangas in the Philippines together with dog remains.” (ibid).

In spite of the widely held belief that Equus sivalensis went extinct about 10,000 years back, we have evidence of their existence in the true horse population of India. US Bureau on Animal Industry Fifth Report noted that “Throughbreds built on the lines of Stockwell and Persimmons are probably more intimately related to Equus sivalensis than to Prof Ridgeway’s ‘fine bay horse’ (Equus caballus libycus) of North Africa.” (page 174). In fact, the Central Asian ancient wild horse was like Indian sivalensis horse (ibid:168), and the skeletal features of the latter have been retained in many modern breeds of horse of Europe (ibid: plate IX, Fig.3, opp. p. 168). Ewart noted in the report that there were four types of domesticated horses in the world, the “steppe”, “forest”, “plateau” and “siwalik” types. (p. 163)

It is not possible to discuss the whole report of the US Bureau here. The concluding remark noted, “But notwithstanding the absence of well preserved skulls it has been possible by making use of the new methods to obtain a considerable amount of evidence that the domestic horses had a multiple origin, that they include amongst their ancestors not only varieties allied to the wild horse which still survives in Mongolia, and varieties adapted for a forest life, but also varieties specialized for ranging over boundless deserts and plateaus, and for living amongst foothills and upland valleys.” (page 165)

On the other hand, many authors hold that these breeds (Arab, Thoroughbreds, Blood-horse etc) have not fully descended from the sivalensis, but yet have got a significant contribution from sivalensis horse of Pleistocene India. This sensible research in modern horse evolution came to an abrupt end probably as a consequence of the World Wars, which diverted scholarly attention to more acute issues, and following the Wars, infused an element of Nazism in the scholars.

By the time the World War II ended, people had forgotten the sivalensis horse, and much more spirited Eurocentric minds relied more on conjectures supporting the White pride, rather than the facts unearthed by generations of horse specialist zoologists and paleontologists.

Thus the evidence says that the presumed to be extinct Indian wild horse Equus sivalensis was in fact domesticated, and has contributed significantly to the numbers of modern domesticated caballus horses, particularly those living in India today.

The Central Asians and the Horse

Another myth of history is the assumption that the Central Asian steppe people must have been the first domesticators of the horse. A recent archaeological research by Frachetti and Benecke (2009) showed that the Central Asians were quite late to keep horse. They did not have domesticated horses even after they had adopted the pastoral practices. It was only after 50 AD that the Central Asians took interest in keeping horse. “Thus the data from Begash draw into question the still common view that Eurasian pastoralism diffused eastward as a result of mounted horsemen in the Bronze Age” they write.

More importantly, they found that association with horse was related to increased adoption of “hunting” mode of subsistence: “At Begash, there is a correlation between a slow increase in horses and evidence for increased ranges of hunting.”… “Significantly, faunal data from Begash contradict the notion that the emergence of Eurasian pastoralism was sparked by the rapid domestication and riding of the horse.” (p.1025).

At Begash, the layers with increased pastoral activity had more of sheep, goat and cattle bones, and very few horse bones (Fig. 2 on p. 1029). Thus horse riding was probably invented by the hunter societies, as has been depicted in the Bhimbetka rock paintings.

This is the reason why we get more importance of horse in the Vedic literature, but the importance of cattle increases as Vedic society moved towards greater pastoralism and agriculture. Hence Kazanas (2009) is correct in his assessment that the Indus Valley civilization, a largely farming society with much less emphasis on horse, was a post-Rig-vedic society. By this evidence we may say that the earliest portion of the Rig-Veda is a transformation zone from hunting to pastoral society, which we call Mesolithic in archaeological terminology. Outram et al (2009) found at Botai (Kazakhstan) that horse was domesticated there for meat and mare’s milk, although it may have been ridden also.

In all event, there is no archaeological evidence of movement of humans or horse from the Central Asia to Iran or India. The BMAC (Bactria-Margiana-Archaeological Complex, 4300-3700 BP) is the southern Central Asian cultural complex. It has been found that there was no horse in the BMAC (Witzel 2003:7 of 12, pdf). No horse related furniture has been found. This clearly rules out any migration of horse or horse riding Aryans from this route to Iran or India. Clearly Indian antiquity of horse is older than that of the Central Asia. That means horse was domesticated in India and Ukrainian steppe independently of each other.

Moreover, Hiebert (1998:153) noted, “no steppe nomadic complex has been found on the Iranian plateau, not even evidence of indirect contact or interaction… The only evidence for interaction … comes from the Central Asia desert oasis cultures.” Thus any migration of man or horse from steppe to Indo-Iran is ruled out by archaeology.

The Linguistics of Horse

Harmatta showed that many languages borrowed Indo-Aryan words for ‘horse’. The North-Western Caucasian languages Udi (4000 BC) had ek, Circassian and Kabardian šv, and Abkhaz a-čv. Similarly Southeast Caucasian too had such words meaning horse from the Indo-Aryan: Lak ču; Khinalug spa ass; Chechen gaur, Ingush gour horse (c.f. Persian gor wild ass, RV gaura wild cow, Hindi ghor horse; quoted in Mishra:222).

On the other hand the PIE root for horse akwa- is absent from Hittite (Kazanas 2009:174), implying that Anatolia was not the place of origin of the Indo-European languages, because the IE languages are so strongly identified with the word akwa. In the Celtic again, there is confusion: ech and Epona, implying borrowing from other branches (vide infra). In the Germanic group too, eoh (the cognate of akwa-) was there earlier, but seems to have been lost and retained only in a few personal names, or compound words today. In the Slavic, akwa- is not in use (vide supra). Thus Indian and Iranian are the only two branches of Indo-European, where this root is firmly present.

There are two sets of cognates one each for southern and northern route languages, both being present in India:

1. Southern Route Cognates of aśva (meaning horse): *ekwo- (PIE); Sanskrit ashva; Avestan aspa; Latin equus; Greek hippos; O. Irish ech; Tocharian A yuk, Toch. B yakwe. We do not know whether Tibetan yak is a loan from Tocharian. Welsh ebol means “any young animal”.

Although Greek hippos has been derived by citing examples of “k” to “p” mutation. Such a view is no better than the folk-etymology. A more logical explanation would be :

Sanskrit aśva > Avestan aspa, and also Persian aqva; Avestan aspa > hippos, epona etc. From Persian aqva > Latin equus. Such a derivation needs a serious consideration.

2. Old English eoh; Gothic aihwa- (in compound word aihwatundi, a herb); OCS ehu-; all meaning “horse”. Also of note is English “ass” (donkey). Although cognates of Sanskrit aśva have been noted in the Germanic languages, they occur as vestigial words of folk-memory, as compound words in which the meaning “horse” is not often explicit, but has been made out by us as a product of semantic analysis of the words. For example: aihwa- (Goeth.) occurs only as the compound word aihwa-tundi (bramble, prickly bush). Similarly Old Saxon ehu- is found only as a compound word in ehu-scalc stable-keeper (Lehmann:15). In many languages the meaning has changed.

3. Northern Route Cognates of Horse: *kurs- (PIE, to run), *hursa- (P. Gmc.), hross (O. Norse), hors- (O. Fris.), ors (M. Du), hros (OHG), khura, kharu (Sk. horse), hreS- (Sk. neighing of a horse), hari (Sk. horse), haryaśva (Sk. a bay horse of reddish-brown colour, c.f. E. “horse”, MHG hross, Ger. ross etc), harya (Sk. horse). khara (Sk. donkey). In Sanskrit other words are: harSa “erection of male sex organ”, hrasva. Also important are Sanskrit sartR, sthaura and sthurin and English “stallion”.

In the Celtic branch, Old Irish had ech from akwa-. Gaul epo- (horse) also does not occur independently, but as a first part of compound word “eporedorix” (horse of the redo=ratha=chariot of the rix= king), and in the name of goddess Epona. In fact Greek hippos may be a word borrowed from Gaul/Proto-Celtic elements existing in Greece before the second wave of Indo-European arrival in the area. That leads us to suggest that there were actually three waves of Indo-European entry into Europe. And we are aware that actually three waves of DNA lineages entered Europe at different times: a) R1b/R1b1b, b) R1a1a, and c) J2b.

Lehmann remarks that “phonological difficulties may point to borrowing introduced when the horse became known to the Indo-Europeans through an unidentified steppe people.” (ibid). However this conclusion has to be read in conjunction with the recent DNA studies of human migration. Probably, the first wave of Indo-European speakers reached Central and South Europe as R1b1b, and north Europe from India as R1a1a Y chromosomal haplogroup. At that time they had not carried horse (and cow). Hence the word for “horse” was lost from the Germanic and Balto-Slavic language. The words for horse were re-borrowed into the north European languages later from arrivals from South Europe, who had domesticated local horse after subsequent waves of Indo-European arrivals from South Asia and Iran (as J2b).

Upper Pliestocene Horse Shivalik Type (Fig 55 on page 364 of Ewart 1911)

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Tatjana, Kaver and Peter, Dovc; “Domestication of horse: genetic relationships between domestic and wild horses”, in Liv Sci-00671, 2008, pp. 1-14.

Thompson, J.A., “The story of domesticated animals” pp. 1105-1130, in The Outline of Science, 4th Volume, Wiseside Press, LLC., 1922.

Underhill, P.A. et al, Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y-chromosomes within haplogroup R1a, European Journal of Human Genetics 2009, 4 November online.

United States Bureau of Animal Industry, Annual Report of the Bureau of Animal Industry (for the year 1884), Washington G.P.O. (27th Report), published 1910.

Vila, Carles et al; “Widespread origins of domesticated horse lineages”, Science, 19 January, 2001, vol. 291, no. 5503, pp. 474-477.

Warmuth, V. et al, European domestic horses originated in two Holocene refugia, PLoS One, 2011, 6(3): e18194.

Weinstock, J. et al, Evolution, systematic and phylogeography of Pleistocene horses in the New World: A molecular perspective, PLoS Biol 2005, 3(8): e241.

Witzel, Michael, Shintasta, BMAC and the Indo-Iranians: A query, 2003, online.

[RajeshA]

Dr. Premendra Priyadarshi Talk on Ancient Indian Contribution at IIT Kanpur

[vishvak]

I have a question. When there was no aryan invasion, were the ones riding aryan horses barbarians who rode on Aryan horses to come over? If even Aryan horse is a myth were the horses barbarians too?

Just 2 cents though I am aware that strange questions have strange answers.

[RajeshA]

According to bharateeyata blog from the book "Pride of India":

This is a passage taken from the text book prescribed for Class VI in India that is used in the schools in Hyderabad, A.P.

Lesson 6; The early Vedic age

Origin of the Aryans

"Scholars have different views with regard to the original homeland of the Aryans. The most accepted theory is that they came from Central Asia, the region around the Caspian Sea. According to historians, one group broke away from the main stock of Indo-Europeans in Central Asia and moved eastward. They are called Indo-Aryans. The Indo-Aryans first settled in present day Iran and then migrated to India”

Name of the book: "Transitions"; Subject of the book: History & Civics; ICSE class VI (ICSE means "Indian Certificate of Secondary Education)

Authors: Shiladitya Ghosh, Education Consultant; former Vice- Principal, Shri Ram School DLF Phase III, Gurgoan

Consulting Editor: Padma Vaswani, Former Principal Hiranandani Foundation School, Powai, Mumbai, Publisher: Madhubun Educational Books

First published in 2004; Reprint:2012;

We grew up learning that Copernicus was the discoverer of Earth rotating around sun and Galileo and others were credited for planetary motion. But ...

On the heliocentric planetary system look at this verse 2.8.15 from Vishnupuranam which is translated as "There is, in truth, neither rising nor setting for the Sun, for it always there, and these terms of rising and setting merely imply appearance and disappearance"

And this passage from Yajur Aranyakam 1.8.3 "The Sun holds the earth from all sides with his rays"

And from Yajur Veda - Taittriya Samhita 3.4.10.34 - "The Sun holds the earth and the celestial region. The sun is the attracting power"

Or on Earth rotating around Sun and Moon around Earth in this passage of Rik 10.189.1
"The moon, being a satellite of the earth, revolves around its mother planet and follows it in its revolution round the self-luminous father (the sun)"

Or on the Elliptical path planetary motion, in Rik 1.164.2 - "The elliptical path through which all the celestial bodies move, is imperishable and unslackened".

We have known about 5 planets long back and scholars were able to decipher accurate planetary motion of each of the 5 planets. We know that Jupiter is a massive plant as we named it as Guru. We have known about the gravitational pull of a large body and the small body orbiting the large body. Our practice of doing Pradakshina around a deity (Guru - Superior) has come from the same knowledge.

How is that western education system has completely ignored these discoveries made by ancient Indians and taught us as if it was all done by European inventors?

Take the oft quoted Sayana's commentary on Rik 1.164.2 and 1.50.4 that tells the Speed of Light "It is remembered that Sun, the traveler of 2202 yojanas in half a nimisha" which yields it as 185,016 miles/sec as opposed to 186,282 per modern observation."

Yajnavalka talked about 108 times of sun diameter as the distance between Sun and Earth which is very close to modern calculations.

How are these scholars able to estimate these with such accuracy without any of the modern instruments? What was method of inquiry they followed?

We were very advanced in Astronomy. We had time scales that were very tiny fraction of a present day second and we have unique names for large numbers - up to trillion trillions. If a society was using such tiny time scales and large measurements then, in my belief, is an advanced society.

Excerpt from the book: Page 66



Page 67



Page 69

[RajeshA]

Prayer Beads: Wikipedia



Hinduism: Japamala: 108 beads
Buddhism: 27 beads or some other divisor of 108
Christianity: Rosary: 54 beads
Islam: Misbaha/Tasbih/Sibha: 33 or 99 beads | 33 Deities in Rig Veda
Sikhism: 108 beads

108 is also considered a sacred number in Sanatan Dharma, and also has astronomical relevance.

[member_22872]

Gurus,
I started a reference thread on OIT/AIT in GDF, first 110 pages of this thread - links and books have been cataloged in that thread. I can finish off the rest of pages of this thread, if you think that is worth the effort. Even though it is manual and no brain effort, it still is tedious and takes time. So kindly let me know if that helps everyone, if so I will finish it.

[RajeshA]

venug ji,

do it as and only if time permits. It is certainly useful.

You have the gratitude of all here! Thanks

[member_22872]

Rajesh garu, no problem, will complete it then. I too have learnt a lot from you all, I owe you.

[RamaY]

I think it is time for this thread is given as reference in Wikimedia and also add some sections there. It will be nice to have a Wiki Editor from this thread contributors.

[disha]

Fig. 2 A BMAC (Bactria Margiana Archaeological Complex; 2100-1750 BCE) horse, the lone horse depiction from the BMAC

What caught my attention in the above image was the dog behind the horse. Brought me back memories of the village dog, that is the Indian Pariah dog and a generally very smart than the brishit purebreds where lot of baba log ooh-ahh over.

Anyway, for the OIT - check this link out on the "Santhal Hound".

http://www.indog.co.in/The_Santal_Hound.pdf

Interestingly, Bhairav and Bhairavi are the hounds of Shiva and Yama also has four eyed hounds guarding the gates. The santhals also call their dogs lovingly "Pharo"!

Read the above link, it is interesting.

[ramana]

Disha, Mahabharata start with a dog Sarama scolding Janmejaya and ends with a dog accompanying Yuddhistir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarama

[member_22872]

Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea
by Charles Seife

The Babylonians invented it, the Greeks banned it, the Hindus worshiped it, and the Church used it to fend off heretics. Now it threatens the foundations of modern physics. For centuries the power of zero savored of the demonic; once harnessed, it became the most important tool in mathematics. For zero, infinity's twin, is not like other numbers. It is both nothing and everything.

Some time back, arun ji posted a review to Kaplan's article which was also on similar lines too:
http://www.slideshare.net/kameshaiyer/b ... april-2006

Zero and Infinity were part and parcel of Indian thought since the beginning. Universe was considered infinite. yuga time scale were millions of years in span. Christianity had time scales in thousands of years at the most for example. I don't understand this obsession and need of the west to lie and obfuscate facts.

[RajeshA]

Zero and Infinity were part and parcel of Indian thought since the beginning. Universe was considered infinite. yuga time scale were millions of years in span. Christianity had time scales in thousands of years at the most for example. I don't understand this obsession and need of the west to lie and obfuscate facts.

They will keep on doing it regardless of how much evidence we show them. They will accept our history from our perspective according to our evidence only when they become dependent upon us!

In 50 years time however, I see all universities in the world would be lining up in queue to get accreditation from Indian education system. However their history departments we may be able to crack much earlier, say in 25 years.

[svinayak]

The Babylonians invented it

Some time back, arun ji posted a review to Kaplan's article which was also on similar lines too:
http://www.slideshare.net/kameshaiyer/b ... april-2006

Zero and Infinity were part and parcel of Indian thought since the beginning. Universe was considered infinite. yuga time scale were millions of years in span. Christianity had time scales in thousands of years at the most for example. I don't understand this obsession and need of the west to lie and obfuscate facts.

Western intellectual revolution started around 1700. Their contact with the east started several centuries before.
COlonization gave them the rights over the colonized people which includes the intellectual property, science and mathematics

But they encountered huge civilization more advanced they could imagine such as India and China.

So they started to create their own civilization and appropriate all the knowledge from all the colonized people. They merged Indian intellectual knowledge into Greek in 1920. There are enough books to show it. They ad absorbed the Sanskrit and Language knowledge system in 1860s with Max Muller writing his book. These imagined histories are then perpetuated for several generations and centuries until the rest of the world start to believe it. The large Indian population with ancient Indian knowledge system is the biggest block for this gigantic global project. Indian westernized elite are their creation who help them in this project.

Zero and Infinity which is part and parcel of Indian knowledge system is being absorbed.

Read Rajiv Malhotra- http://beingdifferentbook.com/

‘Malhotra writes with passion from within an avowedly dharmic stance, undermining the attempts to domesticate and expropriate Indian traditions in a process of interreligious dialogue that is ultimately based on a Western cosmological framework. This book is essential reading for Western scholars. It espouses an “audacity of difference” that defends the distinctiveness of Indian thought and reveals the chauvinism of much Western thought in its encounters with other cultures’
– DON WIEBE, Professor of Divinity, Trinity College in the University of Toronto

‘With stunning honesty, Being Different alerts the reader to the grave dangers of a difference-negating “sameness” that is marketed worldwide by secular and religious streams in Western culture. This is a very important and highly accessible book in the discourse on the interaction between civilizations’

The faster and earlier Indians are able to teach their own Indians that west is attempting to domesticate and expropriate Indian traditions and lot of the west is not really 'western' things will change. Indian education system is being used by the west.

Western Intellectual Tradition: From Leonardo to Hegel
Jacob Bronowski (Author), Bruce Mazlish (Author)

The Modern Mind: An Intellectual History of the 20th Century
Peter Watson (Author)

A History of Knowledge: Past, Present, and Future
Charles Van Doren (Author)

An Age of Revolutions
- The Industrial Revolution
- Human Machines and Mechanical Humans
- An Age of Reason and Revolution
- John Locke and the Revolution of 1688
- Property, Government, and Revolution
- Two Kinds of Revolution
- Thomas Jefferson and the Revolution of 1776
- The Declaration of Independence
- Property in Rights
- Robespierre, Napoleon, and the Revolution of 1789
- The Rise of Equality
- Mozart's Don Giovanni
- Goethe's Faust


Some old books are missing. This could help


The Intellectual Revolution of the Seventeenth Century (Routledge Revivals)
Charles Webster (Editor)

Intellectual history and early modern history have always occupied an important place in Past and Present. First published in 1974, this volume is a collection of original articles and debates, published in the journal between 1953 and May 1973, dealing with many aspects of the intellectual history of the seventeenth century. Several of the contributions have been extremely influential, and the debates represent major standpoints in controversies over genesis of modern ideas.

Although England is the focus of attention for most of the contributors, their themes have wider significance. Among the topics covered in the collection are the political thought of the Levellers and of James Harrington; radical social movements of the Puritan Revolution; the ideological context of physiological theories associated with William Harvey; the relationship between science and religion and the social relations of science; and the function of millenariansim and eschatology in the seventeenth century. The editor’s Introduction indicates the context in which the articles were composed and provides valuable bibliographical information about the subjects discussed.

[RajeshA]

Acharya garu,

you may wish to change the dates in your post. They are off by a century.

[member_22872]

Rajesh ji,

Yes indeed, I am tried of their lies. The author also attributes solar Calendar to Egyptians. I don't know why the west goes ga-ga over anything Egyptian. To prove his invention of zero by Babylonians theory, the author quotes Behistun inscription of their numerals. And remember, long time back shiv ji and Arun ji posted articles about how the Mittanis/Hurrians used the Indian number system to count the number of horses, the description was found on large stone tablets? and the author uses the same inscription to give credit to the Babylonians....amazing.

[RajeshA]

venug ji,

when Bharatiyas buy 3-4 main newspapers in USA, and bag a few History Depts. in US universities, then anybody who speak nonsense would be called out as an uneducated by these publications.

Till then individual activists would have to criticize anti-Indian articles in social media and in the comments section.

[RajeshA]

Talked to a Kurd from Turkey recently. We compared the pronunciation of the numbers in Hindi and Kurdish! It was a pleasant surprise. Surprise not because I doubted the relationship, but because I did not expect such phonetic proximity.

Northern Kurdish numbering rules

• Digits from zero to nine are specific words, namely sifir [0], yek [1], du/didu [2], sê/sisê [3], çar [4], pênc [5], şeş [6], heft [7], heşt [8], and neh [9].
• Numbers from eleven to nineteen are made by setting the unit digit root before the word for ten (deh), with no space: yanzdeh/yazde(h) [11], dwanzdeh [12], sêzdeh [13], çardeh [14], panzdeh/pazdeh [15], şanzdeh/şazdeh [16], hivdeh [17], hijdeh [18], and nozdeh [19].
• The tens have specific names based on the multipliers digits roots, except for ten and twenty: deh [10], bîst [20], sî [30], çil [40], pêncî [50], şêst [60], heftê [70], heştê [80], and nod [90].
• The hundreds are built by telling the multiplier digit, then the word for hundred (sed), with no space (e.g.: pêncsed [500], şeşsed [600]).
• The thousands are built by telling the multiplier digit, then the word for thousand (hezar), with an exception for five thousand (e.g.: çar hezar [4,000], pênj hezar [5,000], şeş hezar [6,000]).
• Compound numbers are built by spelling out the ten, then the digit, united with the word û (e.g.: sî û du [32], heftê û yek [71]). The rule is the same between hundred and ten or unit, and between thousand and hundred (e.g.: sed û yek [101], hezar û dused [1,200]).
• There are also specific words for one hundred thousand (lek [100,000]), and five hundred thousands (kirûr [500,000]).
• One million is milyon.

For Comparison in Sanskrit

Sanskrit Numbers From 1 to 20

1. One एकम् (ekam)

2. Two द्वे (dve)

3.Three त्रीणि (treeni)

4. Four चत्वारि (chatvaari)

5. Five पञ्च (pancha)

6. Six षट् (shat)

7. Seven सप्त (sapta)

8. Eight अष्ट (ashta)

9. Nine नव (nava)

10. Ten दश (dasha)

After the number Ten, you see that the numbers till Nineteen the suffix dasha, in a way similar to the siffix -teen in English!

11. Elelven एकादश (ekaadasha)

12. Twelve द्वादश (dvaadasha)

13. Thirteen त्रयोदश (trayodasha)

14. Fourteen चतुर्दश (chaturdasha)

15. Fifteen पञ्चदश (panchadasha)

16. Sixteen षोडश (shodash)

17. Seventeen सप्तदश (saptadasha)

18. Eighteen अष्टादश (ashtaadasha)

19. Nineteen नवदश (navadasha)

20. Twenty विंशतिः (vimshatihi)

[Prem]

2 of my Nephews and few of their BiZ friends from Dilli had the pleasure of visiting Erbil last Jun. If things work out ok,They will be going back in few months again. The surprise was they could understand people talking and did not have any major language issue. Regular flights from Dubai now carry many Desi bhais to this part of the Duniya.

[RajeshA]

I think one way to follow Indian influence in the world is to look for cognates of the word for cotton in other languages.

Sanskrit: cotton 'karpâsa'

In Hindi we use the word Kaprha/Kapda. Sumerians used the word 'kapzum'. Jews used 'krms'. Greeks used 'carbasus' (κάρπασος).

Now

The word kāfir is the active participle of the root K-F-R "to cover".

I think it is possible that the etymology of the word 'kāfir' could come from K-P-R (kaprha). Perhaps the Arabs used to call the people of the East (Saraswati-Sindhu Region) in general as Kafir simply because they used to import cotton from the East, in the sense of cotton-sellers.

Some history of Carbasus

CAR´BASUS (κάρπασος), “cotton,” from Sansk. karpâsa, was an Eastern product, originally called ἔρια ἀπὸ ξύλου (cf. German Baumwolle), “superior in beauty and quality to the wool of sheep” (Hdt. 3.106). Herodotus also mentions it in his account of the corslet Amasis of Egypt had given the Lacedaemonians (3.47). It was brought by the Phoenicians into Spain: and indeed Pliny (19.10) is of opinion that it was originally found near Tarraco. The Greeks first got a real knowledge of it from the expedition of Alexander (Strab. 693, 694; Plin. Nat. 12.38 ff.). It is described by Theophrastus (H. P. 4, 9 init., ed. Budaeus a Stempel, and of his notes, pp. 425 ff.) and by Pliny in various passages. The Latin term Pliny uses (12.39) is gossypium. The common kind, grown in India, had small leaves like a mulberry, buds like a dog-rose (12.25), and fruit like apples (19.14). The cotton plant among the Arabians and in the island of Tylos in the Persian Gulf had a gourd-like fruit about the size of quince apples, and was called cyna (12. § § 38, 39; cf. Theophr. l.c.). The finest cotton was got in Egypt; its fruit presented the appearance of nux barbata, and from the fine substance within the husk the yarn was spun. The Egyptian priests used to wear garments made of this cotton. The article is called κάρπασος in Schol. on Ar. Lys. 736, and is mentioned by Caecilius Statius (ap. Non. 548, 15) about 180 B.C. This seems to be the earliest time we hear of cotton at Rome: for we cannot suppose the Vestal in Prop. 5.3, 54, to have really worn a cotton garment. Carbasus was used at Rome not only for articles of dress, but also for tent curtains (Cic. Ver. 5.12, § 30), sails (Verg. A. 3.357), awnings in the theatre (Lucr. 6.109). There was no great distinction maintained in ordinary language between cotton and linen (Catull. 64, 227; Prop. 5.3, 64: cf. also Becker-Göll, Charikles, 3.233 ; Gallus, 3.289), and σινδὼν ( “Indian muslin” ) is confused with linen stuffs (Auson. Epp. parecbas. 2, “puer eia surge et calceos et linteam da sindonem” ). Ὀθόνη] is not the same as κάρπασος in that it does not apply to the same article, and is used of any fabric woven from byssus flax or cotton (Marq. Privat. 473). In Malta there were a great many manufactories of ὀθόνια (Diod. 5.12) which were called vestis melitensis at Rome (Cic. Ver. 2.72, § 176; 74.183). This may have been cotton brought by the Phoenician colonists (Mövers, 2.2, 347; Blümner, Gewerb. Thätigkeit, p. 125), or, as Yates (Textrinum, p. 286) thinks, linen. Silius indeed (14.250) speaks of telâque superba lanigerâ Melite; but, in the confusion of ideas that existed among the average Romans between linen and cotton, this does not prove much. Raw cotton was used as stuffing for pillows and bolsters (τύλαι) at Tralles, Antinoopolis, and Damascus: see Ed. Diocl. 18.46, ed. Wadd., p. 41, and a secondary meaning of tula in Sansk. is cotton. The Macedonians with Alexander had already (Strab. 693) used it as stuffing for pillows and padding for saddles (ἀντὶ κναφάλλων καὶ τῆς σάγμασι σαγῆς). On the subject of cotton among the ancients, see Marquardt, Röm. Privatleben, pp. 470-474. For the botany of cotton, see Royle, Culture of Cotton in India, pp. 136 sqq.
[L.C.P]

A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities. William Smith, LLD. William Wayte. G. E. Marindin. Albemarle Street, London. John Murray. 1890.

It seems India had a monopoly of cotton garments then!

[RajeshA]

Sanskrit Words and Their Compound Words

Ā'rya

[Virendra]

Is a ch to d possible from Sanskrit to other IE languages?
Just struck me that their Dermatologist (skin doc) is the same as our Charma rog (skin disease).