LCA News and Discussions

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pragnya
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by pragnya »

Philip wrote:What depresses one is the apparent lack of progress on LCA MK-2.This the aircraft which is supposed to meet the IAF's parameters and most urgent requirement.
btw LCA mark 2 was basically for IN. (revealed by none other than Maolankar - check kartik's post sometime back on his visit to AI 2013). IAF latched on to that and is sticking to it now.

LCA in mark 1 avatar is still more than good as a replacement for the Mig 21s incl Bisons. they can easily order atleast 4/5 squadrons. it helps to streamline and stabilise the production. IAF benefits in terms of squadron strength which is depleting fast.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by NRao »

pragnya wrote:
Philip wrote:What depresses one is the apparent lack of progress on LCA MK-2.This the aircraft which is supposed to meet the IAF's parameters and most urgent requirement.
btw LCA mark 2 was basically for IN. (revealed by none other than Maolankar - check kartik's post sometime back on his visit to AI 2013). IAF latched on to that and is sticking to it now.

LCA in mark 1 avatar is still more than good as a replacement for the Mig 21s incl Bisons. they can easily order atleast 4/5 squadrons. it helps to streamline and stabilise the production. IAF benefits in terms of squadron strength which is depleting fast.
Yes! It did seem that the IAF would have perfectly happy with the Mk1 if not for the Navy requesting a more powerful engine. They should wait and not hurry the II along.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Indranil »

pragnya wrote:
Philip wrote:What depresses one is the apparent lack of progress on LCA MK-2.This the aircraft which is supposed to meet the IAF's parameters and most urgent requirement.
btw LCA mark 2 was basically for IN. (revealed by none other than Maolankar - check kartik's post sometime back on his visit to AI 2013). IAF latched on to that and is sticking to it now.

LCA in mark 1 avatar is still more than good as a replacement for the Mig 21s incl Bisons. they can easily order atleast 4/5 squadrons. it helps to streamline and stabilise the production. IAF benefits in terms of squadron strength which is depleting fast.
+who says that LCA Mk2 has not made any development. They have started building the prototypes.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Indranil »

Beautiful video of Tejas from Iron fist 2013. It definitely is quite an agile machine. Shows the LGB drop and the A2A shot on the chaff.
http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/2 ... height=360

Also one thing that caught my eye is the Griffin LGB drop. No tumbling, no issues.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by pragnya »

indranilroy wrote:Beautiful video of Tejas from Iron fist 2013. It definitely is quite an agile machine. Shows the LGB drop and the A2A shot on the chaff.
http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/2 ... height=360

Also one thing that caught my eye is the Griffin LGB drop. No tumbling, no issues.
i just saw and was about to post it but you beat me to it.

guys,

watch it high res/full screen. beautiful and exciting. best LCA video footage so far.

camera under the wing. watch the front under carriage lifting off the ground, touch down, LGB separating, R-73 firing off, CMDS in action, watch the other LCA dancing literally!!!

http://gallery.tejas.gov.in/Gallery/Iro ... &k=pFN6nDr
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

FANBLOODYTASTIC... MUST SEE! Especially the part where the second lca comes up from behind and makes like a cobra moving its hood this way and that and then just rolls down. Sweet. The craft looks gorgeous and the manoeuvring looks utterly effortless and natural...
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sriman »

Looks utterly beautiful from above. Gorgeous bird.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by fanne »

Did I see in the video of Tejas, an AA missile being shot and hitting a target? (shot at 1:44 and impact at 1:51). I think we are good to go for production with this plane. With declining strength, LCA at LS-8 standard (even if short of JSR) is better than nothing. It can do limited AA and AG when later batches are more capable.
Thanks,
fanne
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

breathtaking at full 1080p!!
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by PratikDas »

fanne wrote:Did I see in the video of Tejas, an AA missile being shot and hitting a target? (shot at 1:44 and impact at 1:51). I think we are good to go for production with this plane. With declining strength, LCA at LS-8 standard (even if short of JSR) is better than nothing. It can do limited AA and AG when later batches are more capable.
Thanks,
fanne
+1
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by NRao »

Desi first,if available and capable,
?????

Available and capable !!!!!

So ................... this is what I would do:
otherwise what would you do?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

4 to 5 sqds at 8 aircraft per year-official statements.That's too little to replace the MIG-21s being pensioned off.If production of the approved MK-1 starts in 2015,we will have only about 40+ aircraft by 2020! Even if admitted that LCA MK-1 is a good replacement for a Bison,how many below specs. MK-1s will the IAF want and in what timeframe? Also remember that the IN NLCA must also be delivered within the next few years .

In the Frontline report,"Failing to deliver" (May 3/2013),the latest issue,a DRDO official also shares his woes.K.Tamilmani CEO of the "Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification",a DRDO facility said: "....HAL should be prepared to invest in modern production technologies so as to produce ,both in terms of quality and quantity". FL says that "HAL's slow production rate and ability to absorb technology are also areas of concern".AKA has also officially stated that LCA FOC should not go beyond 2014.

The report also mentions that "after decades of resistance,by the DRDO hierarchy,an AVM was appointed as 'Director,Project management Team',a sort of pointsman for the programme".A couple of years ago I mentioned how no less than a distinguished AM,former VCoAS,who was repeatedly chosen to head the programme (with decisive powers) by technical committee after committee,year afyter year,including eventually the PMO,the decision was repeatedly shunted to the next tech. committee and even after the PM's decision,the MOD babus postponed/shelved his appointment until he reached retirement age! ACM Browne is quoted as saying that penalties should be imposed on "designers and production houses if they do not deliver on time......and a disconnect between design houses and the production agency".ACM Browne also wanted "full time" factory level working by the "user groups" so that user's inputs and work pattern could be taken into account and the user would monitor progress and delays,communicating the same back to HQ.

FL reports that officials have admitted that Tejas still has "1500 test points " to clear,including A-to-A refuelling ,amounting to around 300 sorties and that an IOC was at least a year away.

AKA's quotes:
HAL must show results.

The DRDO must design products that are acceptable and meet the user's requirements.

Delay in delivery is a big problem for the armed forces.The LCA Tejas is yet to get its IOC-2, and the IJT is delayed-we must make it a reality.

The AVRO/HS-748 transport replacement is to come from the pvt. sector,to be designated as the "Indian Production Agency". AKA says that HAL is "unhappy and angry" that it has been kept out of the project,but that "it is good for the HAL that it should have rivals and competition."

The full report/article is here.I am posting parts relevant to the LCA/aircraft industry mainly.

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/2 ... 809600.htm
Failing to Deliver.
Ravi Sharma.
During the Aero India 2013 air show in Bangalore, Antony and the Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne criticised the DPSUs and the DRDO for their inability to deliver quality products in time. Antony singled out India’s biggest aerospace company, the HAL, and said that it “must show results” and that the DRDO “must design products that are acceptable and meet the user’s requirements”. Antony said: “Delay in delivery is a big problem for the armed forces. The [indigenous] Light Combat Aircraft Tejas [under development by a number of DRDO laboratories and manufactured by the HAL] is yet to get its IOC-2 [initial operational clearance-2]. And the intermediate jet trainer [under development at the HAL] is delayed—we must make it a reality. Quality must also improve.” A number of other indigenous projects, most notably the DRDO’s Kaveri engine, Arjun tank and Airborne Early Warning and Control System, the HAL’s basic trainer, and the National Aerospace Laboratories’ Saras light transport aircraft, are long behind schedule.

PTI

INDIA'S FIRST INDIGENOUS Light Combat Helicopter on its maiden flight at the HAL airport in Bangalore on May 23, 2010.

Delayed deliveries are the armed forces’ biggest worry because they hamper operational availability and maintainability and drastically affect modernisation. Air Chief Marshal Browne, who has frequently called for restricting imports and increasing indigenous content, is of the view that penalties should be imposed on designers and production houses if they do not deliver on time. He explained: “We need to get our project management right before we embark on programmes. Many of our key projects have faltered because of poor management.” He spoke of “a disconnect between design houses and the production agency” and added that “production houses must also have their own design centres so that quality specifications can be maintained”. He wanted the user to be enmeshed in the project management team and closely connected at various levels of the project in all indigenous programmes, as in the Tejas programme, where, after decades of resistance by the DRDO hierarchy, an air vice marshal was appointed “Director, IAF Project Management Team”, a sort of IAF pointsman for the programme. He also wanted user groups working full time at the factory level so that the user’s inputs and work patterns could be taken into consideration. The user would be aware of the project’s progress and any delays could be immediately communicated back to service headquarters.

Explained a senior military officer dealing with acquisitions: “Both the HAL and the DRDO are guilty of not wanting to fix accountability and responsibility for delays. There are no realistic timelines; they promise unrealistic schedules in front of the Defence Minister and then change deadlines without the concurrence of the armed forces/customers.” Under existing procedures, when the armed forces raise a statement of case for procurement of equipment or systems to maintain their operational preparedness, an exhaustive process is followed, governed by the guidelines of the defence procurement policy (DPP), which is updated and revised every few years. And the first option, rightly so, is for indigenous equipment. But service personnel closely associated with procurement procedures allege that this clause gets into a mire. Under the DPP, a requirement by any of the armed forces is first assessed by the Integrated Headquarters (IHQ), which then collectively decides the category and mode of the procurement of that specific item; whether it should be “Make Indian”, “Buy global” or “Buy global and then make in India under licence”. The IHQ, through the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), then makes all possible attempts to go the indigenous way, provided the technology is available in the country. During the categorisation, the DRDO is given the first option to make a commitment and proposal if it can develop a piece of equipment or a device within the DRDO and offer it to the armed forces within the scheduled time and in the desired quality according to the specifications given by the respective service, so as to maintain or enhance operational effectiveness and capabilities.

This, according to the armed forces, is where problems set in. The DRDO readily opts to make the device indigenously and grabs such development projects, but it has rarely met the production specifications in terms of quality or schedule. Hence, the services suffer as they neither possess the desired equipment nor are allowed to procure it from a foreign vendor. It is learnt that the government is thinking of amending the DPP procedures by agreeing to the armed forces’ long-standing request that while 40 per cent of the equipment will have to be compulsorily procured locally, 60 per cent can be bought from abroad. Explained an officer from Air Headquarters: “The DRDO gets projects in the name of indigenisation and promises to deliver irrespective of the cost, capability or state of development. And then it falters. This is hurting us.”

Take the case of Tejas, which has been under development by the DRDO since the 1980s. The light weight trainer made its maiden flight in January 2001, but a good dozen years later it is still to enter squadron service. There have been serious glitches like Tejas being underpowered (there is a mark 2 version being developed with a more powerful engine), the indigenous radar is years away, and many on-board systems of the fly-by-wire aircraft such as the open architecture computer (OAC), which in layman’s terms are the brains of the aircraft, and the digital flight control computer (DFCC) have been found wanting in reliability.

In other words, the mean time between the failure rate of the Mil (military) specification components in the OAC—which is being developed by 14 vendors, integrated by the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), and produced under a transfer of technology agreement by the SLRDC (HAL Hyderabad)—and the DFCC (being developed by the Aeronautical Development Establishment and produced by Bharat Electronics Limited) were too high for the IAF to accept. Components were failing primarily because of obsolescence in technology and the expiry of usable lives. The OAC itself is of 1994 vintage, and components in it have been extensively used, with many of them acquired years ago from overseas and stockpiled even while the component manufacturers themselves have closed shop. Delays in development have further accentuated the issue over reliability.

Tejas is still to get its IOC, a step which means that the fighter is ready for limited service in a fighter squadron. While the IAF has termed the “IOC function” of January 2011, when a release to service document was handed over to Antony, a “motivational IOC”, the ADA has now begun calling it a “pre-IOC”. Officials on the Tejas programme confessed that an IOC was at least a year away, with the fighter having to clear more than 1,500 test points, including air-to-air refuelling, before this is achieved. This will need at least another 300 more sorties.

Officials of the DRDO have their own woes. Speaking to Frontline during the Aero India 2013 air show, K. Tamilmani, Chief Executive, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, a DRDO facility, said: “We need the willingness and have to mandate ourselves that we will look to indigenise our military requirements. The HAL should also be prepared to invest in modern production technologies so as to produce, both in terms of quality and quantity.” The HAL’s slow production rate and ability to absorb technology are also areas of concern.

According to Antony, the private sector also has a large role to play in the defence indigenous effort. Recently, the Ministry of Defence, acting under advice from the IAF, mandated that the aircraft to replace the 40-year vintage Avro HS-748 medium transport aircraft (used by the IAF for communications and troop movement) would be designed, developed and manufactured in the private sector. Requests for proposals (RFPs) are to be sent out shortly to a number of private sector companies, including Reliance, Tatas, Larsen & Toubro and Bharat Forge, for the manufacture of 56 aircraft in the six-to-eight-tonne payload capacity, which can operate in hot, cold, saline and dry weather conditions.

The chosen player will be designated the Indian Production Agency and will be allowed to choose its partner, foreign or Indian. Though thus far the response has not been very positive for the contract, which is expected to be worth around Rs.12,000 crore, Antony feels that this is the only way forward to push indigenisation. He said: “The HAL is unhappy and angry about us giving the project to the private sector. But it is good for the HAL that it should have rivals and competition.”

At the air show, Antony repeatedly highlighted the need for the Indian private sector to play a larger role in the defence industry. But thus far, companies in the private sector have not shown the willingness to invest heavily in an industry that is capital intensive and where the returns are unsure and painfully slow. According to Air Chief Marshal Browne, the defence sector needs “long-term partners with commitment from the private sector who will stay the course, avoid risk aversion, start small, and build up to tier 1 projects”.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by negi »

The ships with best seakeeping qualities in IN are from the R class which are basically modified Kashin-II class i.e. about 1970s vintage. GD fwiw the R class have non-retracting fin stabilizers. Iirc Snaik had posted the image of fin stablizers on Talwar class quite some time back (iirc it has one pair of non-retractable fin stabilizers).
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

what kind of helmet is that (named RAJ) at 1:50?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by keshavchandra »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0yXuM5PFnA

Good video on lca, with some fine turns.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by member_24670 »

I wonder if it is the rumored Indian HMD

Image
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by member_24670 »

with an apparent whiff of Israeli DASH influence

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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by pragnya »

Philip sir,

regards production, while it is true both DRDO chief and the rest have expressed apprehensions wrt HAL's plans in the past, what is being missed is - the new HAL chief has been proactive and has been addressing the issues being faced. here is his interview just ahead of AI 2013 -
At present the design and production activities are going concurrently. However, HAL is geared up to commence delivery against the current order for LCA within three to six months of the aircraft certification (Initial Operation Clearance - IOC). We hope that ADA achieves IOC by the second quarter of 2013. We have already initiated proactive action pertaining to tooling, assembly jigs and build requirements and we are in the process of streamlining various productionization activities which would lead to ramping up of production rate.
LCA production facilities will be augmented to increase the production up to 16 aircraft per year.
so it all depends when the IAF deems it fit for according IOC to the LCA. if it happens by the second qtr as he is hoping, the production will start by dec 13.

also check out -
LCAProduction Group (BC), Shri Benji Memon, ED

With the test flight of the last limited series production aircraft (LSP-8) on March 31, 2013, the Division is geared up to enter series production phase of LCAprogram. The LCAprogram is anticipated to give a business volume of 188 aircraft for IAF and Navy over the next 12 years. Series production is planned with a peak production rate of 16 aircraft per annum. With commencement of series production, the LCA production group shall turn into full-fledged production Division.
http://hal-india.com/HAL-CONNECT/HAL-CO ... SUE-65.pdf

.........

regards NLCA/LCA 2,

please go thro' the following from the horse's mouth (credit - kartik) -

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1408768

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1408769

as you can see lot of work is being done but your 'choosing' to beleive the media more than the real people from IN/IAF who 'beleive' in the LCA and who are 'actually working' on the project - is disappointing to say the least.

please note even within an organisation like IAF, perceptions can be different as exemplified by the following -

here is IAF Chief on the leh incident -
"Recently we went for high-altitude trials. The engine (of LCA) did not work at that altitude because it is a different cup of tea. Even the Su-30, when it was taken to Leh, it had to be modified. So, the LCA will have to be modified. It has to do the retrials," he said.
now check what the TP gr. capt sunit krishna has to say about the same -
"Everything is a test till the system is perfected," said Suneet, about the recent failure of the LCA in high-altitude tests. "We didn't fail but we found faults and now we can make the system better," he added.
see the difference??

having said that this is not to defend HAL/DRDO from any short comings but the fact is issues do crop up - they always will, but they are taken care by the competent people who are doing it for the love of their job/country and bread.

it is one thing to beat the DRDO/HAL based on media reports as versus cross checking the reality vis-a-vis the perceptions - of the real people who are working on the project - and which are available close at hand as in this case.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by nachiket »

chaudhry wrote:with an apparent whiff of Israeli DASH influence
Not just a whiff. It is the DASH helmet. That is going to be standard for the LCA.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by member_24670 »

Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

Is that F16 canopy what chaudhry's pic shows? fantastic visibility for the pilot.

btw, DRDO should think (i hope they may be), from LCA mk2 + amaca about khan DODAFv2 architecture /mission-ops and systems. this is all what we had talked earlier to various issues that plagued and delayed systems delivery.

Not that JSF did better than LCA in terms of sticking to schedule, but way better in terms various other measures.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ctures.jpg
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Virupaksha »

SaiK wrote:Is that F16 canopy what chaudhry's pic shows? fantastic visibility for the pilot.

btw, DRDO should think (i hope they may be), from LCA mk2 + amaca about khan DODAFv2 architecture /mission-ops and systems. this is all what we had talked earlier to various issues that plagued and delayed systems delivery.

Not that JSF did better than LCA in terms of sticking to schedule, but way better in terms various other measures.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ctures.jpg
That architectural image of JSF is perfect example of pptgiri. :rotfl: I agree that we have to learn pptgiri from the JSF team.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

No it's an F-15.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

indranilroy wrote:Beautiful video of Tejas from Iron fist 2013. It definitely is quite an agile machine. Shows the LGB drop and the A2A shot on the chaff.
http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/2 ... height=360

Also one thing that caught my eye is the Griffin LGB drop. No tumbling, no issues.
Stunning video! The LCA Mk1 just seems, how do I put it, ready. Ready to do its job soon in the IAF. And when the Mk1 looks like this then just how good might the Mk2 turn out to be? The LCA dancing around was just lovely, nimble, light on its feet. Seeing this vid made my evening! :)
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

virupaksha, you are highly mistaken on the capabilities. thanks kartik.. no wonder f-15 still rules.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sanku »

indranilroy wrote:Beautiful video of Tejas from Iron fist 2013. It definitely is quite an agile machine. Shows the LGB drop and the A2A shot on the chaff.
http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/2 ... height=360

Also one thing that caught my eye is the Griffin LGB drop. No tumbling, no issues.
Amazing video. Beautiful, the missile shot was particular fabulous. Some thing to cheer a jingo up after a long time.

Yea!!
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

Don't remember seeing this video of the LCA in Ladakh being posted earlier. Couldn't recognize the Test pilot in this one. Could anyone identify him?

youtube link
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

FoC will make it 4 legged cheetah, and Mk.2 will make it a performance cheetah.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by NRao »

what kind of helmet is that (named RAJ) at 1:50?
Must be the name of the pilot.
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Post by member_25399 »

indranilroy wrote:Beautiful video of Tejas from Iron fist 2013. It definitely is quite an agile machine. Shows the LGB drop and the A2A shot on the chaff.
http://api.smugmug.com/services/embed/2 ... height=360

Also one thing that caught my eye is the Griffin LGB drop. No tumbling, no issues.
Amazing video. Made my day. At around 1.53 in the video an encircled reflection of the aircraft appears near the right hand bottom corner. Was is it superimposed and for what reasons and is it of the same aircraft?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by jamwal »

The bogey in DASH brochure is a Sukhoi 30 with blurred Russian Markings. Interesting.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sagar G »

gauravsh wrote:Amazing video. Made my day. At around 1.53 in the video an encircled reflection of the aircraft appears near the right hand bottom corner. Was is it superimposed and for what reasons and is it of the same aircraft?
Sharp Eyes !!!! I think it is the shadow of LCA cast over the clouds.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

^good one.. sharp eyes indeed. and i concur with sagar g.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

Prag,from the article,quoting officials ,etc., involved in the programme,at least a year more/300 hrs of flight tests are required for IOC.The IAF may be armtwisted into accepting the first lot,but they will certainly put their foot down for more when they expect the Mk-2 version to arrive,hopefully which will meet their specs .16 aircraft per year is going to be at the "peak period" of production not from the beginning,where earlier official reports have said that "8 per year" will be initial production rate.From HAL's track record,building 188 LCA aircraft in just 12 years,an average of 15-16 per year is going to be a monumental task.This also means that right from the start 15-16 aircraft per year has to be produced to meet the "12 yr." time frame.How is that possible? Please also read again the ACMs pertinent remarks about the need for penalties,and the disconnect between "design houses and production agency".I repeat the quote, "HAL's slow production rate and ability to absorb technology are also areas of concern".

What we have is the usual positive spin from a defence PSU,that too for a brand new desi designed aircraft,unlike local production for a fully mature design in production in large numbers abroad like the Russian (MIGs and Sukhois) and Western aircraft (Jaguar,Hawks) that we have been manufacturing thus far.

Oldtimers like us have been expecting the LCA's IOC year after year since the millenium! Therefore kindly understand our scepticism.Moreover,by 2020,with a proliferation of 5th-gen aircraft and 4+++ aircraft more capable than the LCA,like the Rafale which will be in local production and the advent of the FGFA,will the IAF still want large numbers of it? I've said before that realistically,we can expect about 100+ MK-1s and Mk-2s to be produced before the IAF pulls the plug.


PS:Here's a great joke,sorry,quote from 2000 from none other than er....read on:
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/mar/14drdo.htm
But the biggest worry for DRDO is not the bureaucratic delays and sanctions, but the Indian air force. Faced with diminishing number of its ageing fleet, the IAF holds DRDO responsible for promising to deliver the LCA before year 2,000, thereby considerably upsetting many of its aircraft acquisition plans.

Suspecting that DRDO will never deliver the LCA, the IAF has now embarked on an ambitious project to upgrade 100 MiG-21 aircraft.

Despite the heavy odds, DRDO still remains confident that it will roll out the country's first indigenous aircraft before 2002.

"We will induct 200 LCAs into the Indian Air Force between 2003 and 2010," Dr Abdul Kalam told a group of aeronautical scientists before he handed over DRDO's charges to Dr Vasudev K Aatre.

But there aren't many who believe that promise will be fulfilled.
negi
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by negi »

jamwal wrote:The bogey in DASH brochure is a Sukhoi 30 with blurred Russian Markings. Interesting.
Well it is obvious the brochure was originally printed with usual NATO sensibilities in mind and since it is just ppt giri they never bothered to change it .
Sid
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sid »

Philip wrote:Prag,from the article,quoting officials ,etc., involved in the programme,at least a year more/300 hrs of flight tests are required for IOC.The IAF may be armtwisted into accepting the first lot,but they will certainly put their foot down for more when they expect the Mk-2 version to arrive,hopefully which will meet their specs .

Suspecting that DRDO will never deliver the LCA, the IAF has now embarked on an ambitious project to upgrade 100 MiG-21 aircraft.

.
Philip, with no due respect, do you know how much testing was required before F-16 and Mig-29 were pushed down USAF/RuAF/IAF behinds?

what were the the limitations of Jaguar/Migs before they were inducted in large numbers?

We are even ready to spread our legs for Typhoon which in its current cannot fully engage ground targets.

Then why the hell Indians find it hard to accept LCA on its current state. Its billions times beter than Migs we have right now.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by NRao »

pragnya,

Thanks for that post.

* Strange that you have to actually post those statements. Some just cannot get past what was stated eons ago nor understand simple manufacturing concepts. 8 -> 16 LCAs per year is not a big deal at all. To be sure from the start. Saraswat stated that just a few months ago. It is not a big deal to increase the rate, what is a big deal is to get a process in place:
we are in the process of streamlining various productionization activities which would lead to ramping up of production rate
Once the process is in place it can support increase in the rate. the problem is the process, NEVER the rate - a simple logic that escapes some. (And ALSO misrepresent what is written in an article or a post.)

* IOC could be an issue, but that is part of the game. Even the mighty Russians have pushed their PAK-FA by a year - because it is part of the business, cannot help it. Neither is stupid nor incompetent.

* Found the comment on MK1 vs. MK2 to be funny. Some either do not get it or refuse to read up. The MK1 is good enough for the IAF. The MK2 is the one that was requested by the IN and to which the IAF tagged along and are now holding HAl/DRDO responsible. IAF SHOULD order more MK1s and accept the MK2 when they come. Or keep quite till the MK2 come (does not sound good, but ..........)

I see another trend - a good one - on the horizon. Both the IAF and IA will be forced by circumstances to accept new sub-par Indian products and be actively involved in the maturing process. MoD has already asked them to show cause why they would want to import, this would be the next and natural step. These both situations are forced upon them by themselves. Both the LCA and the Arjun should fall in this category - IA/IAF need to show why they need to import any more.
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