Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 24 Apr 2013 10:38

RB babu what is the scoop on aapl? why are they cominup with the same ghisa pita iphone/ipad with thoda idhar thoda udhar screen, what happened to their famed creativity? hard to believe naukri mian was the creative genius behind evrything and now they are ouf ideas because naukri mian is no more ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Apr 2013 10:43

law of size and averages catches up with everyone.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Apr 2013 11:14

Its not that naukri mian was creative. Its just that naukri mian understood creativity and was in a position to ensure that design bubbled up front and center. Most top company head honchos are too beaten down with spreadsheets ityadi that they have no desire to consider fluffy things like design, materials and are only focused on cost and numbers. That is why the same Ive baba who did iPhone/iPad/iPod also did the grey Mac cases during Amelio's time.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Apr 2013 19:24

To all the see near mullas ofthis dhaga. My first post with a note 10.1.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 24 Apr 2013 20:30

IPod was introduced in 2001 Iphone was introduced in 2007 and Ipad was introduced in 2010. There has been anywhere between 3 and six years in new product introductions. More if the products are substantially different (iPhone is more different than iPod classic than iPad from iPhone). It takes fruitco that many years for design, supply chain issues, refinement and licensing of content. People who talk of innovation in apple slowing down don't know what they are talking about.

Look at it this way. ITunes processes more transactions than medium sized banks. Fruitco has licenses in place for movie and music purchases, soon movie and music renting too maybe. They can make big LCD panels. They can friction stir weld them to make thin and strong devices. They know how to put processor, ram, flash and WiFi/cellular radio in devices, they make their own processor. On top of it they have a supply chain that can churn all these out.

All these abilities are tremendous assets for storming into multiple product groups. From TV to watches.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Apr 2013 22:18

Pedantic nitpick.....FruitCo doesn't make its own panels.

Only 1 non-device manufacturer company does that with possibly one more soon to follow.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Apr 2013 22:23

the jedis are born and not created. true/false?

apple down: any possibilities of making al.cheapo phones?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Apr 2013 01:29

For RB mian.

Here is the rest of the story.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 02:17

How much of the Android share is Takla's? Becoz while that is technically Android in terms of OS, it is a different ecosystem. Interesting that Mickey managed to go from 0 to 7.5% using its Surface sales which is still not launched in all countries and that too mostly RT which is not a great seller. Nexus 7 should be a cause for worry rather than any of the Sammy tabby crap. Nexus 7 is a good solid tablet for folks who don't care too much about buying content from the app store (for them iPad Mini is the only thing out there right now). I purchased another Nexus 7 last week (32GB) for uh....'development' purposes.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Apr 2013 02:45

7.5% Windows is not all MSFT. It includes others such as Dell, Acer, HP and Samsung. Of the 3 million Windows tablets shipped by Q1'13 about half are MSFT and the others are the rest. Also, a lot of Windows tablets are included as part of large corporate accounts. Retailers, such as Dell and CDW have big corporate accounts and they have Windows tablets as part of their line up approved by IT depts. within large companies. If you took those out, then individual consumers are probably a small percentage. I don't think MSFT cares either way, but if you had to spend your own money, no way in hell would anyone buy a Windows tablet.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 02:53

What Win8 tablets have come out other than the Surface which are even retailing widely except the one from Asus? I am yet to see any IT department use any Win tablet (or Android for that matter) till date.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Apr 2013 04:19

HP Envy x2, Lenovo Thinkpad 2, Dell Latitude 10 Enterprise, Asus Vivo Tab, Acer ICONIA Tab and so on. I am talking about large companies that have accounts with retailers like Dell and CDW that list the Surface and other Win tablets as part of their "official" line up. Retailers as such list Win tablets, but do not list iPad or Android tablets as part of their corporate sales. I almost bought a Surface Pro, but just couldn't see the benefit of it compared to an Ultrabook with a more CPU, screen size, storage and RAM. Both were part of the official list that the IT dept. put out and could be purchased along with the Dell Enterprise tablet and some others. If the MBA was part of that list, I would have been happy, but alas it was not.

P.S. I really hate the 16;9 aspect ratio on my new 14" Ultrabook and much rather prefer the 13.3" 16:10 MBP that actually has more viewing surface area. I'm doing work not watching videos.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Apr 2013 10:18

Mort Walker wrote: Of the 3 million Windows tablets shipped by Q1'13 about half are MSFT and the others are the rest.

Any pointers to this data?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 10:31

Mort Walker wrote: P.S. I really hate the 16;9 aspect ratio on my new 14" Ultrabook and much rather prefer the 13.3" 16:10 MBP that actually has more viewing surface area. I'm doing work not watching videos.

Saar, you surely have the Mahdi's spirit in you.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 25 Apr 2013 10:35

BIL (pbuh) got a HCL Me tab gifted, which I made him 'gift' to me. Not sure what is the utility of this TAB. I do all the browsing on laptop and gaming on desktop. Does aam-janata continue using tabs after the initial sheen wears off?

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Apr 2013 11:02

^^good question. Also, if phone sizes stabilize around 5.5 inch or even 6 inches, will there still be enough demand for 7 or 8 inch tablets?

What does a tablet bring that phone won't other than size?

I think a good 5.5 to 7 inch windows phone offerings (in steps of .3 inches) with convertible keyboard, nice innovative carry on case, bluetooth accessories will do the trick for M$.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 11:09

I doubt phones will stabilize at 6 inches - nobody except Sammy thinks they can keep scaling up and frankly even 4.5 inch feels ridiculously large. For sheer mobility a 7" tablet is perfect and larger tablets feel too unwieldy.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Apr 2013 11:39

Agree on phones larger than 4.5 Or 5.0 (S3 at 4.8 was extremely well received) look ridiculous. But then how long people keep demanding having 4.5 phone, 7inch Tab and then a laptop/desktop for productivity/more serious stuff, which I believe everyone will continue to have but with extended refresh cycle.

Increased adoption of handsfree and things such as smart watches may help avoid having to keep ridiculous sized phones by the ear.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 11:43

^^^extra encumbrances never help. Hence, any smart watch type stuff needs to have strong stand-alone use cases which will make people wear them before they can leverage interoperability use cases.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Apr 2013 11:52

if someone can make a 5" phone with a two sided folding screen that is a 5" phone normally from outside but flips open to become a 5"x5" tablet on demand that might work.

samsung has demoed certain such concepts...no doubt many are working on it, incl in top universities

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and ... en-1110933

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Apr 2013 11:54

^^^Till one starts getting high yield and superb durability on flexible displays, that won't work. If one uses 2 displays, then either there will be an ugly bezel (even uglier if touch is required) or it will be too thick and heavy if edge lens is used to fill the gap.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Apr 2013 23:16

Raja Bose wrote:I doubt phones will stabilize at 6 inches - nobody except Sammy thinks they can keep scaling up and frankly even 4.5 inch feels ridiculously large. For sheer mobility a 7" tablet is perfect and larger tablets feel too unwieldy.

Well, the Galaxy Note II is hugely popular and is selling like crazy. I have decided that my next phone is going to be the Note III with a 6 inch screen.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Apr 2013 00:02

^^Thats just one phone and Sammy aint no Appil. Even the GSIII feels way too big (wide).

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Apr 2013 00:22

^^^The GSIII sells like crazy too. The GSIV is going to be an even bigger hit (pun intended) at the same external dimensions, but with lighter weight.

If bawarchi is smart, he can put a phone in iPad mini and call it iPhone Mega.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Apr 2013 00:54

^^^If Bawarchi has truly lost his mind, only then he will participate in the display scaling wars. Given FruitCo's design centric approach, I doubt it will happen. Unfortunately I will not get a GSIV (even on KB dole) given my experience with the GSIII. The only competitive Android phones in terms of look and feel and top notch UX are the Nexus ones. OEM crap such as Sammy's TouchWiz is a total POS designed by bean counters in suits.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Apr 2013 01:15

Singha wrote:if someone can make a 5" phone with a two sided folding screen that is a 5" phone normally from outside but flips open to become a 5"x5" tablet on demand that might work.

But the aspect ratio would be all wrong.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Apr 2013 01:33

Raja Bose wrote:^^^If Bawarchi has truly lost his mind, only then he will participate in the display scaling wars. Given FruitCo's design centric approach, I doubt it will happen. Unfortunately I will not get a GSIV (even on KB dole) given my experience with the GSIII. The only competitive Android phones in terms of look and feel and top notch UX are the Nexus ones. OEM crap such as Sammy's TouchWiz is a total POS designed by bean counters in suits.

Bawarchi may be on his way out because he can't come up with new ideas. Weeping Tim Cook Spotted.
If Sammy's TouchWiz is a total POS, then what of the clusterf**k of HTC's Sense UI? The Nexus phones are technology demonstrators and will not sell in any significant numbers.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Apr 2013 01:38

SenseUI is no better - its like comparing bull turd with dog turd. Nexus devices being technology demonstrators is as much cow poop as Surface being a TD. The problem is Chacha is dependent on the likes of Sammy/LG etc to sell their phones (similar to Mickey with Windows) - it is a typical dial-e-amma of a widely used platform vendor. And it is in the vested interests of these HW manufacturers not to promote Nexus devices too much. That will change when the gloves come off and they publicly go vertical thru Moto (just like Mickey is starting to do now).

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Apr 2013 01:44

Well, MOTO is going to have its X Phone that will be pure Android, but updates will come from MOTO and not GOOG. This isn't a problem if they sold phones unlocked and didn't go through a carrier, particularly slimy b**tards like VZW. Nexus will be left alone and I don't know if we'll ever see MOTO phones or tablets with the Nexus label.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Apr 2013 01:50

The problem with Android is that the ideal Android phone has never been built. It should have the build quality and screen of the HTC One (that all-metal metal unibody is really nice), the hardware specs of Sammy's flagship model (except their screen) and should run vanilla Android like the nexus devices with no carrier-added bloatware. The Nexus 4 came close but it lacked LTE and there was nothing great about its design.

I had some hopes from Moto, but they seem to be in deep freeze. I have doubts about whether the X-phone is going to be a flagship device or a cheaper lower end version.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Apr 2013 01:58

I am not talking about the Nexus brand itself (name is immaterial) but rather a vertically integrated offering from Chacha. The X Phone stuff is all led by folks deputed from Chacha inside MOTO so its academic who name stamp goes on the product - there is no difference internally.

ATT is a worse culprit than VZW. At least VZW has good QoS in a majority of areas, ATT doesn't even have that. And both are greedy money grubbing operations. Unlocked phones in US wont sell (ask GB) simply becoz the carriers have perfectly tapped into the short-sighted psyche of the average Khan consumer - they would rather save $50.- now and pay $1000.- in the long run instead of paying $100.- now and saving $1000.- in the long run. So whether or not to sell an unlocked device is not the device manufacturer's call, it is something the carriers have to address.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Apr 2013 02:17

^^They are not exactly saving $50. iPhunwa 5 was retailing at ~$900 on the Apple store when it came out. Carriers were selling it at usual $200 rate with 2 year contract.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 26 Apr 2013 02:22

Raja Bose wrote:^^^extra encumbrances never help. Hence, any smart watch type stuff needs to have strong stand-alone use cases which will make people wear them before they can leverage interoperability use cases.

That make sense. Thinking this further, perhaps a really dumb display accessory connectable to phone is a way to go but getting an additional tablet for just a little bit more is not that different. This trend then will ensure the tablet prices stay in lower price bands/tough sell at higher price bands.

Wondering about folks that want to build business model around selling tablets without phones...it has to be sheer volume play.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Apr 2013 02:27

nachiket wrote:^^They are not exactly saving $50. iPhunwa 5 was retailing at ~$900 on the Apple store when it came out. Carriers were selling it at usual $200 rate with 2 year contract.

$50.- was an economics example onlee saar.

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Apr 2013 03:02

Well another thing in Unkil is chorporate plans ; when I got a shiny 4S from COY bahadur I did not waste my time thinking about how overpriced eaten up fruit is and funny thing is they let you keep the handset when you leave the COY even if one were to quit within a year of joining. Lot of the middle class and above in Unkil land basically gets handsets for FREE in form of chorporate phone and even the bill is paid by the company along with 8GB data so imho the working class in the corporate sector don't have to think too much about the kind of cartel being run by ATT and VZW. It is the lower middle class and poor who are at the receiving end but then be it US or India who thinks about the poor ?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Apr 2013 04:23

^^^That is also how a lot of IT equipment is bought as well in khanland. As long as profits are being made, no questions.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 26 Apr 2013 04:58

asgkhan

good point - most times if the laptop is already on i use the laptop

tablet is more like when you want to check something quick or do nto want to deal with laptop opening\closing (like airport)

thats my usage

manish · Post by **manish** » 26 Apr 2013 15:54

The Lumia 520, 620 and the 720 seem to have undergone a price correction.

The 520 has slipped below the Rs. 10k mark with a Rs. 9,999 on FlipKart with a free 8GB SD card (Rs. 10.5k when launched just a few days back) price tag whereas the 620 is selling for Rs. 14,230 with a 16GB card thrown in (from somewhere around Rs.15k+ sometime ago) and the 720 is Rs.17,999, Rs. 1k off its last week's launch price of Rs.18,999.

The Lumia 520 seems like an unbeatable value proposition at the price point what with its core internals being effectively the same as the 720. The UX and the UI response on a 520 running latest WP8 build will be something that the Android handsets below Rs.16-18k can only dream of when loaded with the latest OS versions.

manish · Post by **manish** » 26 Apr 2013 18:39

Marten wrote:^manish: Got a Lumia 822 at 205USD. Now that is a good price! With 920 internals and removable battery and GG2 screen, even if the resolution is lower, it doesn't matter to someone who has trouble reading small font sizes.

saar, one can only envy you!
A great deal indeed.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Apr 2013 22:43

For the completely uninitiated, may I solicit opinions on what is a better choice between Nexus7 and iPadmini ? I'm giving away my bigger TouchPad (with Android Jellybean) to parents in desh. This is mainly for some reading, browsing, books and movies (Handbrake generated) while traveling. I like the size of the iPadmini, but prefer the open ecosystem of chacha's tablet. I even considered Nexus4 to use as a phablet, but that seems too small for the purpose of reading a book or watching a movie over an hour.