Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 27 Apr 2013 01:10

Sadhus want Narendra Modi declared NDA’s PM candidate

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ium=tweets

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 27 Apr 2013 01:16

From Shivagiri to Haridwar: NaMo’s message

Much debate has ensued in recent days over ‘secularism’ including one much-discussed Column by Pratap Bhanu Mehta. While Hindutva politics of the 1990s were a reaction to the perverse variety of secularism practiced in India during the decades after independence, the many flaws and serious limitations of Hindutva politics of the 1990s became quite evident during the 2000s. Between the extremities of a secularism focused excessively on minority victimhood and a secularism rooted in equal opportunity pandering to religion, India has struggled with what shape its secular state must take that harmonises Constitutional values with the demands of electoral politics.

Listening to the speeches from Shivagiri Mutt and Patanjali Peeth on the political expectations from prominent Hindu religious leaders, I am reminded of a profound comment in the book The White Umbrella – Indian Political Thought from Manu to Gandhi by Mackenzie Brown. In the book, Mackenzie Brown observes how the ‘White Umbrella’ has been a constant symbol of the sovereign power of the state from Rama to Akbar to Shivaji and beyond. Elaborating on the ‘political tradition’ symbolised by the White Umbrella, Mackenzie Brown writes:

“The personal integrity of the ruler and the moral sense of the citizenry are the keys to sound government and prosperous society offered by Manu and Gandhi alike…. the core of the tradition symbolized by “Shveta Chhatra” or “White Umbrella” is essentially this: The problem of Government is the ethical problem of the individual projected into the field of the State. Its solution lies in Dharma”.

It was this non-theocratic political tradition guided by Dharma that was visible in abundance in Haridwar and Shivagiri Mutt as various leaders of Hindu religious institutions took the unusual step of expressing a political preference towards Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi. It was also this non-theocratic and minimally secular political tradition that Narendra Modi was alluding to in his articulation of ‘India first’.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/04/26/f ... 70769.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Apr 2013 01:25

Lets hope NAMO dont peak too early and end up like Milkha Singh . Congis have not shown their Held and Hidden cards kept for deceiving and cheating.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 27 Apr 2013 02:03

I am glad that a whole lot of younger generation are being guided so nicely to think and read about Dharma, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna mission by this man.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Apr 2013 06:46

Jhujar wrote:Lets hope NAMO dont peak too early and end up like Milkha Singh . Congis have not shown their Held and Hidden cards kept for deceiving and cheating.

I think this is not a concern. I am more concerned about him running out of time. If early elections are called, and his adversaries in the BJP decide to resist him then there is little that he can do. Besides being projected as PM candidate, the important issue is who decides about allotment of tickets. Post elections there will be some high stakes maneuvering with Nitish and BJP tall leaders trying to shove him aside. Commanding the loyalty of the newly elected MPs will be crucial. Other option for him is to walk out before elections, but it will take several months to put the machinery into place.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Apr 2013 07:08

Do not under estimate the spiritual power of sadhu-sant. If congress plays foul game, the videsi dienasty will become nissantu-dynasty.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 Apr 2013 08:35

RamaY wrote:Do not under estimate the spiritual power of sadhu-sant. If congress plays foul game, the videsi dienasty will become nissantu-dynasty.

Congress has been playing a foul game for 100 years and have gotten away with it. There is no reason why they and their B-Teams cannot continue to get away with it. Especially now that there are EVMs.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 27 Apr 2013 08:37

Pranav wrote:
RamaY wrote:Do not under estimate the spiritual power of sadhu-sant. If congress plays foul game, the videsi dienasty will become nissantu-dynasty.
Congress has been playing a foul game for 100 years and have gotten away with it. There is no reason why they and their B-Teams cannot continue to get away with it. Especially now that there are EVMs.

Ek Ek Ginwata Hoon - Manoj Kumar - Premnath - Beimaan

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Apr 2013 10:22

Continuing my dialogue with the Indian Islamist at PakTeaHouse with the hope that Pakis and their Indian friends don't try something foolish!

Code: Select all

http://pakteahouse.net/2013/04/24/chairman-press-council-of-india-justice-markandey-katjus-hindutvist-akhand-bharat-theory-right-out-of-the-rss-manual/comment-page-2/#comment-132201

I wrote:
I wrote:Modi will cause the whole unraveling of Hindutva. So screw Modi!
Tajender wrote:i am talking of law of land.he was involve in mascare of muslims.he should pay for this as per law of land.brhmnst media in india can turn a donkey into horse.they use shudras to promote brhmnsm.ramdeo,anna hazare shivajee modi and vivekanand are all shudras and jahil(barring vivekanand).they are being used to promote brhmnsm and portrayed as anti -muslim.which was lie and wrong.
muslims are happy with modi,no doubt.i knw it from 4 years.but question is law of land.he even killed pandya a brhmn to assure his election.this legend should be finished.
Tajender,
I wish Modi can be nailed. This man has stopped all RSS/VHP activity in Gujarat. Why do you think, VHP was so pissed off at Modi? He has been totally uncooperative.

If you want to go by Law, the SIT has already dwelt upon the matter and concluded that he tried his utmost to stop the riots, which was mostly stopping the Hindus from retaliating against the Muslims. After the Godhra train massacre, the Muslims in Gujarat deserved to be sent packing. Instead Modi stopped all that. SIT just confirmed it. Modi has always been working for Gujarati Muslim interests and not Hindu interests. He is a crypto-Islamist, but outside Gujarat, Hindus think that Modi is pro-Hindu, which he is NOT. He is a bloody traitor. BJP/RSS leadership has no choice but to accept him because he seems to have made a good campaign and fooled everybody.

In fact there were a few people from Congress who helped the Hindus more than Modi did in the retaliation against Muslims. But Congress wants to project Modi as responsible because Congress wants Muslim vote-banks.

Too many Hindus are fooled that Modi is on their side, and too many Muslims outside Gujarat are fooled that Modi contributed to the retaliation against the Muslims.

All one needs to do is go through the SIT conclusions and listen to Gujarati Muslims about what really happened and where Modi's loyalty lies. But the Hindus are not doing that, and Muslims as always are idiots, for that is how Congress likes to keep them.

I see two goals that Hindus need to have viz-a-viz Indian Muslims in these elections

1) There is no assassination attempt on Modi
2) The Muslims do not polarize in favor of an anti-BJP candidate, which has a chance of winning, but rather it would be better if the vote-bank is fragmented.

What I found interesting was that this Indian Islamist was aware that Modi is liked by the Gujarati Muslims since some time now - 4 years. That means Indian Muslims are aware of this fact, but there is still manufactured hatred among them for Modi. Probably they just want somebody to pay the "price". My effort is simply to swing the above rhetorically active Indian Islamist Tajender to not want to extract the price from Modi, and that the Muslim vote does not polarize in favor of the Congress or for any single non-BJP candidate.

Published on Apr 25, 2013
By Sanjay Singh
Modi’s counter to ‘topi’ politics: Track-II mission to woo Muslims: First Post

Just a disclaimer/reminder, I am slavishly pro-Modi!

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 11:05

I personally feel that he should not have said that he is not a leader of Hindus only. Its the same mistake of alienating your core community. Every news channel and even local Hindi newspapers had this as headline. Why did he say that? Will him saying this change anything as far as English media or Muslims are concerned. They will not be satisfied even if he is hanged. Such statements only alienate his hardcore Hindu voters.

Just my 2 cents.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 27 Apr 2013 11:14

Tajender wrote: this legend should be finished.

You sense something here?

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 27 Apr 2013 11:29

kittoo wrote:I personally feel that he should not have said that he is not a leader of Hindus only. Its the same mistake of alienating your core community. Every news channel and even local Hindi newspapers had this as headline. Why did he say that? Will him saying this change anything as far as English media or Muslims are concerned. They will not be satisfied even if he is hanged. Such statements only alienate his hardcore Hindu voters.

Just my 2 cents.

Modi will never be accepted by monotheists (Muslims and Christians) who consider him as a leader and defender of idol worshippers -- this is how the brain of monotheists works in all its bigoted glory. By such secular statements, Modi will confuse Hindus too about where he stands in respect to them. One must never distance himself from his core community of supporters to curry favor with those on the fringe.

Duvidha mein dono gaye, na maya mili na Ram (In confusion, I lost both -- neither I could get the glory of God, nor the pleasures of this world)
Falling between two stools
bird in hand is better than two in the bush ... etc. etc.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 11:33

varunkumar wrote:
kittoo wrote:I personally feel that he should not have said that he is not a leader of Hindus only. Its the same mistake of alienating your core community. Every news channel and even local Hindi newspapers had this as headline. Why did he say that? Will him saying this change anything as far as English media or Muslims are concerned. They will not be satisfied even if he is hanged. Such statements only alienate his hardcore Hindu voters.

Just my 2 cents.
Modi will never be accepted by monotheists (Muslims and Christians) who consider him as a leader and defender of idol worshippers -- this is how the brain of monotheists works in all its bigoted glory. By such secular statements, Modi will confuse Hindus too about where he stands in respect to them. One must never distance himself from his core community of supporters to curry favor with those on the fringe.

Exactly my point. I am unable to understand as to why he would say this then, he generally doesnt do such mistakes.
I mean, I can only imagine the disappointment of a hardcore Hindu voter with this line. Finally after so many years there was leader who was for them (at least the perception) and he too is now distancing himself from Hindus to get Muslim votes.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 27 Apr 2013 12:19

There is a famous Chinese joke, where Driver of Mao asks for direction, whether to take left (socialism) or right (capitalism) for which Mao says signal toward left and go on right.

Ditto what NaMo did, he said virtues of secularism in pure Sanskrit. By the by, can you please given another Indian leader who used so mush Sanskrit slokas to reveal his mind.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 27 Apr 2013 12:54

I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Apr 2013 13:12

Question to the Kittoo et al..Whats exactly is the problem by being the "leader of everyone" ??

Chandragupta wrote:I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.

Lot of absurd logic saar in your complaint..

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 27 Apr 2013 13:17

Chandragupta wrote:I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.

This doesn't make any sense. His development represents everyone.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 27 Apr 2013 13:29

^+1, It is unfortunate some people rather have the momentary satisfaction of some vitriolic statement rather than the systematic unravelling of the delhi sultanate. Mr. Modi is going to be the PM of India, which involves governing a large number of minorities. Ghettoising muslims is the best thing that can be done to strengthen the hands of the islamist filth. In these ghettoes they breed like pigs and spread illiteracy, thereby becoming brain-dead zombies for the islamists. I know that some terrorists are educated, but the ecosystem where these people come from always involves the majority of the community being brainwashed illiterates. Also, I don't need to elaborate the benefits of not having them breed like pigs. Unless these posters suggest sending muslims to the gas chambers, I think the best solution would be to remove them from the influence of the islamists (funded by saudi barbaria). To this end, Mr. Modi must bring them education and prosperity to them as well, whether they deserve it or not.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 13:33

Lilo wrote:Question to the Kittoo et al..Whats exactly is the problem by being the "leader of everyone" ??

Chandragupta wrote:I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.
Lot of absurd logic saar in your complaint..

There is no problem in the development sense. The problem is that he will alienate those Hindus who are voting for him because they feel he is a leader who will talk about Hindu benefits too, finally. And there are a lot of such voters. So many people, in areas like UP, especially the upper caste people etc. are not galvanizing behind Modi for development alone. There is a sense in a lot of people that there is no one who speaks for Hindus, and Modi is a hope for them. Even if Modi doesn't discriminate in development, he needs to understand that he is not getting votes for that. He is getting votes BOTH for development and for being Hindu Hriday Samrat. Statements like these will make the core Hindu voters feel disenchanted with him.
And I want Modi to win, for which he will need the core Hindu votes, especially in UP. So making statements like these, that too in a sadhu sabha, is absurd and stupid in political sense.

Arun Menon wrote:^+1, It is unfortunate some people rather have the momentary satisfaction of some vitriolic statement rather than the systematic unravelling of the delhi sultanate. Mr. Modi is going to be the PM of India, which involves governing a large number of minorities. Ghettoising muslims is the best thing that can be done to strengthen the hands of the islamist filth. In these ghettoes they breed like pigs and spread illiteracy, thereby becoming brain-dead zombies for the islamists. I know that some terrorists are educated, but the ecosystem where these people come from always involves the majority of the community being brainwashed illiterates. Also, I don't need to elaborate the benefits of not having them breed like pigs. Unless these posters suggest sending muslims to the gas chambers, I think the best solution would be to remove them from the influence of the islamists (funded by saudi barbaria). To this end, Mr. Modi must bring them education and prosperity to them as well, whether they deserve it or not.

Menon ji please dont confuse our intentions with what we think was wrong to say. We are not saying that he should have said something like 'I am leader only for Hindus' etc. We are not looking for momentary satisfaction. Quite the opposite actually. We want him to win. And if he has to win, he will need core Hindu votes (and that will be his biggest vote bank too) Such statements will deprive him of those votes, while getting nothing in return.
We are not saying that he should do no development for Muslims etc. You completely missed the point.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 27 Apr 2013 13:42

modi supporters are giving a stiff fight to his detractors, on who are bigger obstacles in his path

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 27 Apr 2013 13:56

Gus wrote:modi supporters are giving a stiff fight to his detractors, on who are bigger obstacles in his path

+100000000. Sadly true.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:02

Gus wrote:modi supporters are giving a stiff fight to his detractors, on who are bigger obstacles in his path

Gus saar I am not sure if this point was targeted towards the criticism of the statement that we did. If it was, I ask how we are being obstacle in his path, when all we did was putting forth our thoughts that this statement might hurt his chances at getting votes?
BTW, this is the first time I disagreed with what NM said, ever!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Apr 2013 14:03

The leader of all Indians should come from the Hindus and he should believe in primacy of Bharatiya interests.

Isn't it correct that all Muslims and Christians in India should accept him as their leader because he has the confidence of all Hindus who may select him as India's PM?`Wouldn't they be forced to accept him as the PM of India and thus their PM aka leader as well?

After all the King of Britain was at some time also considered Emperor of India, whether we wanted him or not!

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 27 Apr 2013 14:07

^+1, I find it disturbing how people would rather focus on words than deeds. This kind of attitude got us into this situations where we have such politics of fraud in the first place.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:09

RoyG wrote:.... His development represents everyone.

^^ Exactly "The Sadbhavana slogan is 'Sauno saath, sauno vikas' (everybody's participation, everybody's development)." - slogan from 2012

Nothing new in above too (though its a 2012 slogan) as Modi reminded yesterday he said this back in 2002 itself - his govt works for all those who voted for him against him and who didnt vote at all.

PS:some one find out this 2002 interview

Kittoo ji,

I dont find any "core hindu votebank" which sees its interests as putting down the interests of other communities.

Its true that many hindus have a lot of anger on the sikular islamist / evanjehadis mufti ruling over them and that anger is also many a times transposed onto the communities which regularly bring them to power and apparently enjoy the benefits/non-benefits from that loyality. But the catch is this , Even those who voted for congress know that the whole thing is an elaborate dog and pony show and in reality congress is feigning benevolence in non-issues while not letting even a morsel slip through without rent when it comes to real issues like employment , roads , current, housing etc.

So perceptive ones in communities now are realizing that sikularist Congress is like the the Monkey in the panchatantra story nibbling away at the piece of bread while pretending to divide the bread equitably between the two cats. These perceptive ones will be the thought leaders for their respective communities when its the election time and swing the vote away from congress.

There are many indications given by NaMo that he will take care of these sikular types and make a lesson out of them when he comes to power - that alone should be sufficient to warm the cockles of those Hindus chaffing at the injustice from the past decade of sikular rule. There is no necessity to pursue anything beyond that and see ghosts in ordinary people when there are none.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:11

Arun Menon wrote:^+1, I find it disturbing how people would rather focus on words than deeds. This kind of attitude got us into this situations where we have such politics of fraud in the first place.

Menon ji I am not doubting deeds of Namo, please understand. I am saying that such statements might get him lesser votes. Thats it! No one is doubting the deeds of NaMo! I am still as hardcore a supporter as I was before. If we are pointing towards the possibility of him getting lesser votes because of that statement, thats precisely because we want him to be the PM!

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 27 Apr 2013 14:14

Arun Menon wrote:^+1, I find it disturbing how people would rather focus on words than deeds. This kind of attitude got us into this situations where we have such politics of fraud in the first place.

Menon saar, we are all Modi bhakts. But dharma allows the critique of even the gods, so please allow Modi bhakts here to critique the man.

We all want him to win. Heck, most of us here including me will give our own blood if that means 5 years of Modi. He is the last hope.

All we mean is that making statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus' will alienate his core voters at some point of time. For Modi's appeal, agree or not but development is secondary - his unflinching loyalty to the dharma (and not just Hinduism) and rashtra is primary & foremost. By making 'clarification-esque' statements like these, he is doing no good. He doesn't HAVE to, doesn't NEED to clarify his stand. He stands for the Rashtra & Dharma. He doesn't need to make explain whether that includes all communities or Hindus, that's the political discourse set by the Sultanate.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 27 Apr 2013 14:18

ravi_g wrote:Kashi Brahmins won. So no worries on that count.

VVV - Let ATRI JI do the honours.

Why this kolaveri Saar?

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:18

Lilo wrote:
RoyG wrote:.... His development represents everyone.
^^ Exactly "The Sadbhavana slogan is 'Sauno saath, sauno vikas' (everybody's participation, everybody's development)." - slogan from 2012

Nothing new in above too (though its a 2012 slogan) as Modi reminded yesterday he said this back in 2002 itself - his govt works for all those who voted for him against him and who didnt vote at all.

PS:some one find out this 2002 interview

Kittoo ji,

I dont find any "core hindu votebank" which sees its interests as putting down the interests of other communities.

Its true that many hindus have a lot of anger on the sikular islamist / evanjehadis mufti ruling over them and that anger is also many a times transposed onto the communities which regularly bring them to power and apparently enjoy the benefits/non-benefits from that loyality. But the catch is this , Even those who voted for congress know that the whole thing is an elaborate dog and pony show and in reality congress is feigning benevolence in non-issues while not letting even a morsel slip through without rent when it comes to real issues like employment , roads , current, housing etc.

So perceptive ones in communities now are realizing that sikularist Congress is like the the Monkey in the panchatantra story nibbling away at the piece of bread while pretending to divide the bread equitably between the two cats. These perceptive ones will be the thought leaders for their respective communities when its the election time and swing the vote away from congress.

There are many indications given by NaMo that he will take care of these sikular types and make a lesson out of them when he comes to power - that alone should be sufficient to warm the cockles of those Hindus chaffing at the injustice from the past decade of sikular rule. There is no necessity to pursue anything beyond that and see ghosts in ordinary people when there are none.

Lilo ji,

I hope, with all my heart trust me, that the last paragraph of your post is how things are and will. But won't you agree that the wave behind Modi has a lot to do with a lot of Hindus feeling that finally there is someone who speaks for them too. Even if it has nothing to do with taking development away from other communities (and I am not arguing for that anyway), it has to do with him being a leader for Hindus too. Now we all here are well versed and can see behind the veil. But imagine a normal man in some village reading the headline- 'Main keval Hinduon ka neta nahi hoon: Modi' (I am not a leader of Hindus only: Modi). What does he think? He thinks now Modi is also trying to get the Muslim or Christian vote, distancing himself from Hindus. Thats where the problem lies, according to me.
I do hope I am wrong though, with all my heart.
Edit: Chandragupta ji above put it better than me.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 27 Apr 2013 14:19

Chandragupta wrote:I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.

you are talking of 'Garv se kaho hum hindu hein'. You are about 10-20 years late for that. Today your opponent is in no position to challenge you on your Hinduism. Since 2002-2004 period there has been a consistent and insidious attempt to abort the second phase of Hindu thought, one that focuses on fielding a potent force of military+business capabilities. NaMo represents this second phase. RJB was the first phase. NaMo takes from the first one but it would be utter idiocy if he starts to give back to the first phase. The cycle has to move in the right direction. He has to give towards the third phase where business+janata janardan will be able to do its real thing. This phase can be expected to bind not just the Hindus inter-se but also other Bhartiyas and Indics. Then finally the phase after the third one will see a Bhavya RJB mandir entirely out of the natural expression of our wishes.

Also you fail to notice the nuance. NaMo is not saying that he is 'Not a Leader of Hindus'. He understands that he is and that is why all the Sant Samaj took the trouble to get behind him. His duty is towards people other than hindus also. All the people in Acharyakulam gathering know that he has a bigger mandate and is an off-shoot of core hindutva that the sant samaj let loose in and about 92.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 27 Apr 2013 14:24

Atri wrote:
ravi_g wrote:Kashi Brahmins won. So no worries on that count.

VVV - Let ATRI JI do the honours.
Why this kolaveri Saar?

Guru ji no kolaveri this. See it is neela, the godly colour.

Only a shishya calling out loud when he thought the Guru would best do justice. But that opportunity is gone now.

You failed to listen to your shishya. Prolly not enough good karm accumulated yet.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:35

Kittoo ji ,

What you are referring to is ultimately about the issue of PaidMedia , even if nothing is said by NaMo they will hear the wind howl in their ears and print some lie to split his support . Then again this is an old handicap for modi and modi has been winning irrespective of the media skullduggery.
Take yesterdays case , much of bharat viewed Modi's speech through Aastha Channel (it will anyway have many reruns) they know what has been said, when they see all these twisted out of context headlines in news the next day , it will only expose the PaidMedia further with little damage to Modi.

Re: Chandragupta ji's point about preferability of Modi not broaching this issue at all - i agree that as Modi has now made this point well, he has little need to harp on this again.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 27 Apr 2013 14:38

While searching for 2002 statement came across this gem

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 27 Apr 2013 14:39

kittoo wrote: If we are pointing towards the possibility of him getting lesser votes because of that statement, thats precisely because we want him to be the PM!

you have given the answer yourself.

if he gets lesser votes, then he won't be PM.

i want modi to be PM. In that manner, I am a modi supporter. I may not agree with him on everything..but I won't diss him if he says something I don't like. I would give him a pass as I am not hung up one thing too much. I like the overall package..its the best among the lot by a large margin.

And I am not going to swoon on his every move and word. He himself does not have any pretensions about himself (from what I can see).

It is his supporters who might scare other people away.

all he is saying is "i am not a leader for hindus alone.." meaning he is a leader for all people, regardless of religions...you know..his INDIA FIRST theme that he has been building on.

and we have people here getting annoyed about this great "betrayal". And only RajeshA can come up with this "After all the King of Britain was at some time also considered Emperor of India, whether we wanted him or not!"

if you say take it or leave it, in politics - most people would actually leave it.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 27 Apr 2013 14:45

my understanding of indian electorate is this

those who are "hindutva, core hindu, hindu supremacy, etc" (I am not ascribing any negativity or positivity to these identities and do not wish to get into debate on that) - these folks will vote for modi. who else are they going to vote for? not many takers there.

seats are won when you have more broad based support from a vast pool than strong support from a narrow pool. this is just basic politics. if modi has to win, he needs to get enough votes and that vote will be "hindu votes" + X + Y+ Z etc. Clearly, "hindu votes" by itself is not enough to win elections or else would have not seen INC putting a successful coalition for 90%+ of our election history.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 27 Apr 2013 14:51

There is no problem in the development sense. The problem is that he will alienate those Hindus who are voting for him because they feel he is a leader who will talk about Hindu benefits too, finally. And there are a lot of such voters. So many people, in areas like UP, especially the upper caste people etc. are not galvanizing behind Modi for development alone. There is a sense in a lot of people that there is no one who speaks for Hindus, and Modi is a hope for them. Even if Modi doesn't discriminate in development, he needs to understand that he is not getting votes for that. He is getting votes BOTH for development and for being Hindu Hriday Samrat. Statements like these will make the core Hindu voters feel disenchanted with him.

I would like to have some clarity on this so called "Core" Hindu and err..the "Peripheral" Hindu.

As I can see, all that NaMo is saying is that, Contradictory to popular belief, He is not an elected Hindu fanatic leader who is bothered about the welfare of Hindus onlee..As the CM, he has tried to look after the interests of all...that includes HINDUS who had NOT voted for him/BJP. Now if some Hindus have such a fragile mind that anything he utters in generic terms is going to 'hurt" their feelings, they are behaving worse than the Togadias and Singhals, IMO.

By catering to the needs and wishes of Togadias and other fanatic Hinduthvavaadis, Modi is going to lose more votes amongst Hindus than that he gains, because, there are a lot of Hindus who would vote for him for his Governance, but would hesitate to do so if he indulges in sabre rattling - they are the peace loving types who would prefer a corrupt puppet like Manmohan, than a sabre rattling clean Modi with potential for a violent future.

In that sense, he is taking the public into confidence. I don't know for sure, but may be he knows that wooing and getting the votes of Muslims and Christians is not a short term goal and cannot be achieved within the available time frame before next election. Hence, talk of well being of all, that too during a Sadhu Sammelan at Haridwar cannot be misconstrued as Muslim or Minority appeasement. Yes, Some closet Hindus like Togadia would feel greatly offended..But life moves on..what to do?

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 27 Apr 2013 14:52

Gus ji,

that a 'take it or leave it' stance will have 'most leaving it' or 'most taking it' is merely a matter of PoV.

But then the fact is that historically Sangh politics has been about helping people make up their minds. These guys want committed followership. The 'leave it' kind of supporters can be left to the NDA partners. Sangh politics without the Hindu is not possible. And during the slog overs it is the committed followership that counts, not the 'aayarams and gayarams'. That is the reason why NaMo cannot split from BJP, he would rather do a hostile takeover if the push comes to shove.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 Apr 2013 15:15

All that Modi said was that he is not in war with other religious groups, and he would treat all equally as per law as should be the case according to Raj Dharma, because they are after all all Indian citizens. That is the State-Citizen relationship.

Is there something wrong with that? Hardly.

What however can be different is that he would deal with civilizational matters differently, and would naturally promote Bharatiya Sabhyata and Sanskriti!

One needs to differentiate between the State-Citizen relationship and the Rashtra-Sabhyata relationship!

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 27 Apr 2013 15:18

ravi_g wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:I hope NaMo stops making absurd statements like 'I'm not just a leader of Hindus'. Yes sir, you're a leader of the Hindus and the only one after decades - and there's nothing dirty about that tag.

you are talking of 'Garv se kaho hum hindu hein'. You are about 10-20 years late for that. Today your opponent is in no position to challenge you on your Hinduism. Since 2002-2004 period there has been a consistent and insidious attempt to abort the second phase of Hindu thought, one that focuses on fielding a potent force of military+business capabilities. NaMo represents this second phase. RJB was the first phase. NaMo takes from the first one but it would be utter idiocy if he starts to give back to the first phase. The cycle has to move in the right direction. He has to give towards the third phase where business+janata janardan will be able to do its real thing. This phase can be expected to bind not just the Hindus inter-se but also other Bhartiyas and Indics. Then finally the phase after the third one will see a Bhavya RJB mandir entirely out of the natural expression of our wishes.

Also you fail to notice the nuance. NaMo is not saying that he is 'Not a Leader of Hindus'. He understands that he is and that is why all the Sant Samaj took the trouble to get behind him. His duty is towards people other than hindus also. All the people in Acharyakulam gathering know that he has a bigger mandate and is an off-shoot of core hindutva that the sant samaj let loose in and about 92.

Saar, I don't know what phases are you talking about. But today's phase is that 'Saffron Terror' is right up there with the terrorism that has no religion. Hindus are being locked up inside for petty political gains. Islamists are gaining strength with every passing week. Talking of Hindu interests is backward, communal & petty.

That's what today's phase is.

Atleast in those days, people could say 'Garv se kaho hum Hindu hai', I doubt you'll find many takers for that slogan today. Most, if not all of the momentum of the RJB has been lost and BJP played a large role in that failure. There's still a long way to go for Hindu awakening.

Nobody is saying that Modi shouldn't work for Muslims. He should work for the Rashtra & Dharma and Hindus have no birthright on Dharma. His statements like India First = Secularism, Sabka Sath, Sabka Vikas - are perfectly secular & wonderful slogans which everybody encourages. He names no community, he says he works for India & Indians. But when he says 'Main sirf Hinduo ka neta nahi hun' - he names a community, there is an attempt to include others, there is an attempt to reach out - something he doesn't need to.

He should work for all, for India. But he must accept that only the Hindus & Dharmic people take him as their leader and if he says, I'm not just your leader, I am not sure what or to whom he's referring to. But whoever it is, they are surely not voting for him.

AjayKK · Post by **AjayKK** » 27 Apr 2013 15:27

This point about voters being a little upset for such words was discussed few pages back. Since it is important, I am reposing the details:

March 16, 2013

muraliravi wrote: I fail to understand the significance of such references even for electoral purposes, he wont gain a single vote from the other side because of this, but he has plenty to lose ( in me i see a die-hard modi fan ).

To which :

Muppalla wrote:
That is exactly the point. Don't attack the messenger. Analyze the message. I am not supporting muraliravi.

I will first analyze what muraliravi wrote. Is there a core vote that will get pissed off. It is the question that we should ask. If there is such a core even though that is nut-case (as you make it to be) will it be important? Is it better to not rupture such nut-cases and make them sit at home. Did he get extra votes by bringing in business making trains between two muslim centers and to a church center? To get extra brownie points from the likes of anjan did his line if repeated again (say in another speech) pisses off the 2% core vote?

There are several examples from BJP leaders. What muraliravi is bringing is an apprehention .... I truly don't believe at all that Modi has erred but it is an interesting analysis from a electoral point of view.

We all want to see Modi the leader replace the trash we have. But Indian voters are made of several colors. First accept that this particular speech some different observations which are not typical of his past speeches. No doubt it is a great way. Everyone here knows the great heritage of assimilation and Indian culture. However, it is also important to see all colors and their implications.

Good points by both MuraliRavi and Muppalla!