Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Sanku
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Now THIS is the sort of meat that I think is really really meaningful.

Narendra Modi most well known 'backward caste' leader: Sushil Modi
New Delhi: Bihar's Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Modi on Wednesday batted for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as prime minister calling him the most well known backward caste leader nationally. "India's next Prime Minister should be from the backward classes. Gujarat's Chief Minister Narendra Modi has never talked about his background to seek votes. But we are aware that he doesn't come from a privileged background. He overcame poverty to kick-start his political career and has now reached great heights," Modi said.
As I said before, before we can call NaMo king, BJP has to move behind him, which means local leaders, national leaders, RSS and rank and file.

We are seeing the picture emerge, slowly but clearly -- its still a very very far though, and I still think it would be best, if Advani-ji could be made PM for a 2 years, have some really hard decisions having been made under him, and let NaMo take over after hitting the system hard, however that luxury of having some one NaMo may not be there anymore.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

^ I agree.

LKA can start RJB reconstruction, Abolition of A370 etc and then resign to make NM do his governance mantra.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

Sanku wrote:Now THIS is the sort of meat that I think is really really meaningful.

Narendra Modi most well known 'backward caste' leader: Sushil Modi
New Delhi: Bihar's Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Modi on Wednesday batted for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as prime minister calling him the most well known backward caste leader nationally. "India's next Prime Minister should be from the backward classes. Gujarat's Chief Minister Narendra Modi has never talked about his background to seek votes. But we are aware that he doesn't come from a privileged background. He overcame poverty to kick-start his political career and has now reached great heights," Modi said.
As I said before, before we can call NaMo king, BJP has to move behind him, which means local leaders, national leaders, RSS and rank and file.

We are seeing the picture emerge, slowly but clearly -- its still a very very far though, and I still think it would be best, if Advani-ji could be made PM for a 2 years, have some really hard decisions having been made under him, and let NaMo take over after hitting the system hard, however that luxury of having some one NaMo may not be there anymore.
sir spare us from ur modi emerging slowly, take a poll among bjp voters/all Indians/bjp cadre, in any poll modi will beat advani 10:1. And any sensible party goes to polls with its best bet. You don't believe in surveys that show that modi can boost bjp vote share by even a meagre 5%. So I ask you show me a survey that shows bjp getting 165+ seats with advani as nominee.

enuf is enuf, the minute bjp announces advani as pm nominee, bjp will go to 2 digits. Can you please tell me how many seats bjp will get in each state with advani as pm nominee. I ask for the nth time, show me one example in Indian politics ( state/national) where a party was out of power for 5 yrs, went into election with candidate A as nominee, lost badly and then goes into election after another 5 years, projects the same nominee again and wins the election.
Last edited by muraliravi on 02 May 2013 05:40, edited 3 times in total.
RoyG
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Sanku wrote:Now THIS is the sort of meat that I think is really really meaningful.

Narendra Modi most well known 'backward caste' leader: Sushil Modi
New Delhi: Bihar's Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Modi on Wednesday batted for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as prime minister calling him the most well known backward caste leader nationally. "India's next Prime Minister should be from the backward classes. Gujarat's Chief Minister Narendra Modi has never talked about his background to seek votes. But we are aware that he doesn't come from a privileged background. He overcame poverty to kick-start his political career and has now reached great heights," Modi said.
As I said before, before we can call NaMo king, BJP has to move behind him, which means local leaders, national leaders, RSS and rank and file.

We are seeing the picture emerge, slowly but clearly -- its still a very very far though, and I still think it would be best, if Advani-ji could be made PM for a 2 years, have some really hard decisions having been made under him, and let NaMo take over after hitting the system hard, however that luxury of having some one NaMo may not be there anymore.
Modi is the tallest leader in BJP and has reinvigorated the party. Advani is sh*t. BJP will lose if they project him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

RoyG, I would not allow LKA to be treated as such. Please withdraw your comments.

LKA is either protecting "some plants" as put forth by Sanku or he is into chairman emeritus stage and does not realize it by thinking he is CEO as put forth by Mupalla. Either way, there is this gray area which is causing angst amongst the impatient. Or all of them want to use NaMo's name to get into PM gaddi. Then they are all humans onlee. Humans first, Indians later!

NaMo has become the "defacto" PM. Election to PM is a mere formality and a matter of time!!! There is no tall leader as far as eye can see. JJ, ShivC, ManoP follow him and are distant 2nd or 3rd. And any CongI government will lurch from disaster to disaster.

By being in Gujarat, making Guj developed and taking it to next stage and going around places giving ideas (he has worked on acceptability very well post 2002., being in Kerala, KA, Bengal etc).

So please spare the angst., there is the "idea" and then there is the execution = putting him in PM seat will take effort and the path is indeed tough (yes the famous Indian dualism ;-) )., so let us not call names.

Will post some more thoughts later on the various activities.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

RamaY wrote:^ I agree.

LKA can start RJB reconstruction, Abolition of A370 etc and then resign to make NM do his governance mantra.
Why cannot Modi do those,or why cannot Advani after completing the afore mentioned tasks do good governance too. It is not like these can be done only by select individuals. So some BRFites want Advani to do do all the HINDUTVA tasks, hmmmm.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

^ kinda..

Bhima has to kill Jarasamdha, Arjuna had to do khandavadahana, Krishna Sishupala Vadha and so on...

Or if you like Ramayana, Hanuma for finding Sita, Laxmana to kill indrajit before Rama takes over Ravana

It is the same team.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

This is the same Advani who sat around for 8 years while the Congress looted the country. Never spoke one word against the queen and her drones. The entire cadre base of BJP was demoralized. This was even the case in RSS. I'm done with giving this geezer a chance. Step aside and make way for Modi. Someone who actually did some good work for the past 10 years and has given the party and country a vision. Advani may have been a hot shot back in the day but now he should keep quiet and sit in AC room. Same goes for that corrupt Sushma. She just started to attack the queen now that she senses their is blood in the water. Didn't do sh*t before then.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by suryag »

for me advani is like a biryani made a week ago, it was tasty then, rancid and stale today. For eight years they never did anything, congies dug themselves a grave with 2G and only then was there some noise from these bunch of nda losers
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

RamaY wrote:^ kinda..

Bhima has to kill Jarasamdha, Arjuna had to do khandavadahana, Krishna Sishupala Vadha and so on...

Or if you like Ramayana, Hanuma for finding Sita, Laxmana to kill indrajit before Rama takes over Ravana

It is the same team.
Sorry, that won't do. A official cannot be elected to do only some kind of tasks. RJB is more of a social and cultural endeavor. If the people have stomach and willingness, then they will get it done.

Meanwhile, Advani should just step away, go the route of vanaprastha. His time has come and gone. Not everyone made it to swargam, only Yudhishitra made it. PM post is not for everyone to try it, Advani missed it. Pavam. Anthe. Time to move on. Lots of good hearted sorry to him. He has the option to be a guide or be in the way...it is his choice.

And this dhaaga is about Modi vs Gandhi family. Advani is like bell bottoms, Modi is like the cargo pants/jeans. People desire the later. Nothing wrong with bell bottoms in 1970, it is odd in 2013.
Last edited by SwamyG on 02 May 2013 04:36, edited 2 times in total.
muraliravi
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by muraliravi »

So bottom line is if even in a pro bjp crowd, advani has 1 in 10 supporters, his ability to pull bjp voters to the booth and bring in fence sitters is close to nil. So advani supporters can chill out and forget abt him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Prem »

Soch Vichar Eh Tatava Khoji,
To compose Ramayan , Hindus sent Balmiki, To Compose the Constitution , They requestted Ambedkar and Nou to Quench the Civilization Thirst and Calm the Taarrap of Aryavart , they will Elect Modi, Child grown up playing in Bharatmata Ki Goddhi and not a misplaced, unnatural seasonal bloom on some alien Doddi. 8)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

It's all sons and daughters of Abraham,no one from Dharma side representing in USCIRF,. These hate mongers(by belief) have recommended the extension of VISA rejection policy on Modi.

http://www.uscirf.gov/about-uscirf/commissioners.html
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

The irony is that American foreign policy vis.a.vis India is now limited to and played by a extremely small group of deracinated Indians and the terrorist Islamic republic of Pakistan.

It is blessing in disguise.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Chindu pitching for LKA, citing Gandhi's choice of Nehru over Patel, what does it say?
Narendra Modi’s Patel test

Narendra Modi, prime ministerial aspirant, is faced with a problem of Patelian proportions. The party’s middle and lower orders want him to be Prime Minister but, eventually, the day will come when he will have to see what serves his party’s and India’s interests best.

A little reminder from history seems to be in order here because most people remain blissfully unaware of it throughout their lives. Even the few who do know it, often forget its caprices. It is the Gandhi-Patel-Nehru-Party story of April 1946.

In terms of expectations, 1946 was not dissimilar to 2013 :rotfl: . It was not known then that the British would be gone in 16 months. That surprise came in February 1947 when Lord Mountbatten announced it out of the blue.

But an interim Indian government was to be formed. That in itself was a major reason for hope to be in the air, just as it is now, including the possibility of an interim government because neither the UPA nor the NDA might manage 272 seats.



BJP’s Patel problem

It looks as if the BJP is faced with a similar dilemma. It has to choose between Mr. Modi as Prime Minister and someone else. Who that someone is doesn’t really matter.

There are four possibilities.

(A) It chooses Mr. Modi, and NDA wins;

(B) It chooses Mr. Modi, and NDA loses;

(C) It dumps Mr. Modi, and NDA wins;

(D) It dumps Mr. Modi, and NDA loses.

Clearly, A is the most preferred outcome for the BJP, and D is the least preferred one. B also is not to be countenanced. So the choice boils down to A and C.

The BJP has to work out the probability of these two events. On current reckoning, it seems to be assigning a very high probability to A and a very low one to C. Hence the tussle between L.K. Advani and Mr. Modi.

But eventually, as the elections come closer, it will have to revisit the odds on C. Even though they will change, they are unlikely to change drastically in C’s favour. Mr. Advani may think he has it in him but he is probably in a minority of one.

Modi’s moment

But politics is about surprises. So suppose something happens that closes the gap between A and C to a narrow one.

Will the party then tell Mr. Modi what Gandhiji told Patel, namely, in the interests of unity, will you stand down? What will Mr. Modi do then? {Is he saying Loh Purush will divide BJP?}

His decision might have to involve, when the time comes, paying heed to his ‘inner voice’ which places party and NDA above self. It worked wonders for the Congress, if you recall, in 2004.

The problem, however, is that there is no one in the BJP with the moral authority of Gandhiji. This means that if the party has to choose between Mr. Modi and someone else, Mr. Modi will have to show a degree of selflessness not usually seen in politics. Tyag works well in India.

That, truly, will be his real test, the one thing that will truly set him apart, and make him an even bigger and unstoppable force to reckon with the next time around. {Brahma-Rakchsa chanting Hanumaan Chalisa(rabid secular talking nicely about Modi pretending to be his well wisher) is pretty scary thing}

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/n ... epage=true
Last edited by Sushupti on 02 May 2013 07:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Sushupti wrote:It's all sons and daughters of Abraham,no one from Dharma side representing in USCIRF,. These hate mongers(by belief) have recommended the extension of VISA rejection policy on Modi.

http://www.uscirf.gov/about-uscirf/commissioners.html
Indian Americans need a way to show their disgust with this state of affairs. This interference in Indian politics and the ridiculous presumption that some low-IQ American Rednecks can possibly have more 'evidence' than Indian courts needs to be shredded to pieces.

Truly THE litmus test of Indian American reach in politics. If they can't even fix what is clearly and morally wrong - they should know their lowly standing in American society.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Sanku wrote:Now THIS is the sort of meat that I think is really really meaningful.

Narendra Modi most well known 'backward caste' leader: Sushil Modi
New Delhi: Bihar's Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Modi on Wednesday batted for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as prime minister calling him the most well known backward caste leader nationally. "India's next Prime Minister should be from the backward classes. Gujarat's Chief Minister Narendra Modi has never talked about his background to seek votes. But we are aware that he doesn't come from a privileged background. He overcame poverty to kick-start his political career and has now reached great heights," Modi said.
Good strategy. Narendra Modi himself, despite being an MBC, is way too self-realized to play the 'victimhood' card - nor does victimhood politics agree with his ideology. Others will have to pick up the baton for him - like Sushil Modi above. Need many more such prominent voices speaking up for Modi as a Backward Caste Icon.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

Sushupti wrote:Chindu pitching for LKA, citing Gandhi's choice of Nehru over Patel, what does it say?

Filthy vermin pretending to give good advice. All of these "journalists" should be given what is coming to them soon. This guy giving advise is like a highway robber giving security advice to a wealthy traveller. The fact that these insects peddle LKA (whom I respect and wish would retire) by itself makes certain how unsuitable he is for the job. The only PM choice is Modi. We all know what Nehru's prime ministership has cost us, do we need try the same again?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

Arjun wrote:
Sushupti wrote:It's all sons and daughters of Abraham,no one from Dharma side representing in USCIRF,. These hate mongers(by belief) have recommended the extension of VISA rejection policy on Modi.

http://www.uscirf.gov/about-uscirf/commissioners.html
Indian Americans need a way to show their disgust with this state of affairs. This interference in Indian politics and the ridiculous presumption that some low-IQ American Rednecks can possibly have more 'evidence' than Indian courts needs to be shredded to pieces.

Truly THE litmus test of Indian American reach in politics. If they can't even fix what is clearly and morally wrong - they should know their lowly standing in American society.
Pls. tell that to one ShyamD.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Sanku wrote:Now THIS is the sort of meat that I think is really really meaningful.

Narendra Modi most well known 'backward caste' leader: Sushil Modi
New Delhi: Bihar's Deputy Chief Minister Sushil Modi on Wednesday batted for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as prime minister calling him the most well known backward caste leader nationally. "India's next Prime Minister should be from the backward classes. Gujarat's Chief Minister Narendra Modi has never talked about his background to seek votes. But we are aware that he doesn't come from a privileged background. He overcame poverty to kick-start his political career and has now reached great heights," Modi said.
As I said before, before we can call NaMo king, BJP has to move behind him, which means local leaders, national leaders, RSS and rank and file.

We are seeing the picture emerge, slowly but clearly -- its still a very very far though, and I still think it would be best, if Advani-ji could be made PM for a 2 years, have some really hard decisions having been made under him, and let NaMo take over after hitting the system hard, however that luxury of having some one NaMo may not be there anymore.
You are again taking the same leaders' utterings and you are extrapolating to make Modi is still not there. Let us list who are really uttering these:

BJP folks
Advani favorites/anti Modi folks
(1) Sushil Modi (Bihar)
(2) Shatrughan Sinha (Bihar)
(3) Vijay Goyal (Delhi)
(4) Varun Gandhi (Uttar Pradesh)
(5) Murali Manohar Joshi (Uttar Pradesh)

Grudgingly/Tactically accepted Modi:
(1) Yashwant sinha (Jharkhand)
(2) Arun Jaitley (Delhi)
(3) Uma Bharati (UP)
(4) Rajnath Singh (UP)
(5) Anantha Kumar (KA)

In the non-BJP
Nitish Kumar (Bihar), Udhav Thakrey (Maha)

Who did not openly oppose Modi or perceived to be opposed to him
(1) Mohan Bhagawat (MH) - More anti Advani than anti-Modi
(2) Nitin Gadkari (MH)
(3) Sushma Swaraj (Delhi)

The entire list is nothing but no vote catchers with very few exceptions. Another coincidence is all of them are Delhi, UP, Bihar with very few odd person out. The unacceptability of Modi is only in these handful of leaders from a particular region (GV). It did not transcend to the even mid level leaders and cadre and there are several proofs for that even from that region.

Without NaMo BJP will not even get to three digits. In such a situation the UPA-1 style or Gujral/Gowda style INC supported government is assured. There are convincing surveys.

This is a Dilli-Billi's plot (nothing to do with BJP) that is promoting Advani's name to avoid another PVNR style thappad. That is the reason I say Advani is suffering from vaardhakhyam. My expectation is that he openly comes out and supports Modi as PM if he adheres to his own proposals of Nation-First and party-next and self-last. He did practice in the past (RJB rath yaatra, fall guy posture after Nuke test, yielding to ABV on leadership etc.) and was duly rewarded/recognized with 2009 candidacy. He is expected to stop the rise of non-vote-winnable brokers.

Malleability towards dynasty from this region's leaders is highest even when opportunity strikes them. Remember the Charan Singh (UP Thakur), Chandra Shekhar (UP Thakur), ABV (sorry to add to list here but he got the strongest opportunity to destroy the crap), Mulayam Singh (Mir Jaffer role) and Mayawati (Mir Qasim role). Every one of them are born anti-dynasty folks.

Advani Ji is currently the ring leader for this region's brokers. In my view he is like the king of Rohan in Lord of the Rings (see second part) under the influence of evil spirits of ring (Dill Billi). He has taken his rejection by RSS after 2009 debacle very personally and that is clouding every other past intelligent behavior of his prime time.

Here is the real problem. Most of the leaders listed above are very networked politicians across political spectrum. The fear of Modi is that he comes from outside the network (not alone as he possess his own network and structure) and dismantling of this network is a fearsome thing that is yet to digest. This is where they see Advani is the best bet so that they can continue the networking behind him. He will not be a strong leader with these gangs support.

There is ample evidence that BJP will be able to give a strong showing without these folks. Country and BJP needs to try something that is totally out of box and there is a huge opportunity in the from of Modi based on existing national mood.

We can go in multiple loops on this topic until Modi is finally declared and that is imminent :)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Arjun wrote:Good strategy. Narendra Modi himself, despite being an MBC, is way too self-realized to play the 'victimhood' card - nor does victimhood politics agree with his ideology. Others will have to pick up the baton for him - like Sushil Modi above. Need many more such prominent voices speaking up for Modi as a Backward Caste Icon.
Actually Sushi Modi is playing a smart game in favor of Modi while his open postures are different. To me they are all actually plotting to split JD(U).
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

After Chindu promoting LKA now IE promotes Chouhan
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Sushupti wrote:Narendra Modi’s Patel test
An important piece of history. Patel also needs to take a share of the blame for allowing Nehru to be foisted by Gandhi via blatant illegality. A failure of judgment on the part of Patel, for which the nation is paying a very heavy price.
Last edited by Pranav on 02 May 2013 07:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

:) After writing the post that Chindu article comes with a tacit support to Advani. Chindu's support to Advani tells a huge story :)

In simple terms it is an "Operation - save the networks "
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

This is for all CongI supporters, CongI supporting EJ trolls and the rest of CongI termites.

If tomorrow, Bharat rises up and takes the CongIs to the guillotines or better drawn and quartered, do not get surprised. Do not even get surprised if nobody sheds a tear. Do not get surprised if some actually wish for it!

Here is my angst, I was watching the live debate on Lok Sabha, when Sushmaji was speaking. I clearly witnessed Sonia Mafiosi the imperious instigating her dogs to bark and disrupt the speech. I got disgusted and switched off the TV - did not want to break it. It later transpired that the speaker cut off the mike of the leader of opposition.

Gentlemen, in a true democracy, if Sonia Mafiosi the Imperious does not have the ability to listen to criticism in the house., she has not right to belong there. Neither her dogs (however gentlemanly they are outside - like Tharoor) belong there. Just for supporting such mafiosi, they should hang their head in shame.

I challenge any of the Congi Supporter/ EJ troll or fence sitter to come here and debate - operative word is debate - why they support such a fascist behaviour from Sonia Mafiosi the Imperious.

And BTW, SC/SIT lawyer (to read it again - Supreme Court Special Investigation Tribunal's lawyer., the independent SC/SIT with ability and authority to file chargesheets) has clearly stated that Modi had no negative role in Godhra and in particular Best Bakery case.

Ehsan Jafri vitiated the crowd anger further by firing into the crowd. Sanjiv Bhatt's testimony as a witness has been shredded to smitherins. Not sure what Twista's lawyer will say and not sure what Sonia Mafiosi the Imperious will do., but the blood, grief, angst, disgust of and injustice to the hundereds of humans perished in Godhra train and aftermath rests squarely on the CongIs and their supporters.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Does anyone has info of time of NaMo meetings in Mangalore and Belgaum?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Pranav wrote:
Sushupti wrote:Narendra Modi’s Patel test
An important piece of history. Patel also needs to take a share of the blame for allowing Nehru to be foisted by Gandhi via blatant illegality. A failure of judgment on the part of Patel, for which the nation is paying a very heavy price.
Pranav, you blame everyone and that includes Patel. Come on man and you will some day blame lord Krishna for ending dwaapra yuga and allowing the kali to start. :) Patel was a human for a fact.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

Muppalla wrote::) After writing the post that Chindu article comes with a tacit support to Advani. Chindu's support to Advani tells a huge story :)

In simple terms it is an "Operation - save the networks "
Muppalla Ji, Chindu artcle talks about surprise situation which may lead to NAMO taking back seat. What they could have in store?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pranav »

Muppalla wrote: Pranav, you blame everyone and that includes Patel. Come on man and you will some day blame lord Krishna for ending dwaapra yuga and allowing the kali to start. :) Patel was a human for a fact.
Dharma is subtle ... Patel may have thought that he is making a sacrifice, but even that can be a manifestation of Ego.

The idea is not to find fault ... rather it is to learn.

That is why, in Indian culture, knowing the Mahabharat story is considered to be useful.

IMO in the history of Shivaji also there are many very instructive circumstances.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by disha »

SwamyG wrote:OT, but Yuddhistra already lost her. He gambled his wife away on a dice game. Who is the bigger idiot Karna or Yuddhistra. If Yuddhistra was following some kind of dharma, then so could one conjure up for Karna. After all the times were different. If 5 people could marry one woman......Mahabharatam cannot be looked as black and white.
SwamyG, facts are not behind you. Even now, there are cultures where polyandry ("5 people marry one woman") is practiced, is thriving and is a norm. There are some Indic cultures as well. And soon with the fall in sex ratio, millions of bakistanis may be looking at that possibility (do not get surprised if it happens!).

Now you have not read MB very well. Draupadi's first statement to Yuddhistra was, did you lose yourself first or me first? Yuddhistra lost himself first, as such he had no right to gamble away Draupadi. Second even if he had lost Draupadi first, the issue of is wife a "property" or a "partner" comes into play. Wife is ardhangini, and hence is part and a partner. Yuddhistra was wrong and gambling of Draupadi was illegal, hence the Kauravas had no right on her.

Now what Kauravas did, even at the instigation of Karna to Draupadi was wrong. There are several principles at play here. For eg. Two wrongs do not make a right principle. Then the question of the illegality of the gambling itself comes into play. Then as princes and future kings, what happened to "Raj Dharma"? If they can do to Draupadi, what will they do to ordinary folks? Kauravas - like present day CongIs - behaved like Hyenas and they had to die.

So SwamyG, please read and parse - the operative word is parse - MahaBharata and Ramayana and study Bhagvad Gita and the Upanishads and the Vedas (me, I have taken only a droplet from the ocean) and then you might want to debate on the "mythologies".

Again this is an admonition, but with no malice. Just take it that what I am admonishing you about in the last para, the same I will keep it in my mind for myself (self-admonishment? If there is such a word).
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Muppalla wrote: There is ample evidence that BJP will be able to give a strong showing without these folks. Country and BJP needs to try something that is totally out of box and there is a huge opportunity in the from of Modi based on existing national mood.

We can go in multiple loops on this topic until Modi is finally declared and that is imminent :)
Muppala garu,

Now you are talking something I wanted to hear from you.

I agree with your assessment on LKA's vardhakyam. Interestingly another non-BR friend used the same word when we discussed the topic. Of late LKA is getting emotional for everything and is seen crying both in joy as well as perceived/real insult or anger. These are clear signs of vardhakyam.

In such a state of mind LKA cannot handle the challenges faced by the nation. I am sure he will put nation first, for which he made great sacrifices throughout his life.

Clarification - In one of my previous posts (SwamyG garu questioned it) I suggested LKA should make some choices on RJB,A370,UCC etc before giving the mantle to NM. I was referring to a non-NM, non-LKA BJP leader who is too eager to sit on the throne for some time and try to be more Modi than Modi ;)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

Pranav wrote:
Muppalla wrote: Pranav, you blame everyone and that includes Patel. Come on man and you will some day blame lord Krishna for ending dwaapra yuga and allowing the kali to start. :) Patel was a human for a fact.
Dharma is subtle ... Patel may have thought that he is making a sacrifice, but even that can be a manifestation of Ego.

The idea is not to find fault ... rather it is to learn.

That is why, in Indian culture, knowing the Mahabharat story is considered to be useful.

IMO in the history of Shivaji also there are many very instructive circumstances.
There is Dharma that appears as Dharma (Pandavas accepting the Kauravas invitation to play dice)
There is Dharma that appears as Adharma (Yudhisthir betting his brothers and Draupadi)
There is Adharma that appears as Dharma (Kauravas calling Pandavas slaves and wanting to treat Draupadi as a slave and disrobe her OR the likes of Bhishma standing as spectators to that)
There is Adharma that appears as Adharma (Kauravas inviting Pandavas to play of dice with evil intentions)

Contemplate again on the players, their worldviews, vision, perspectives, choices and actions. Your own intellect (being part of the universal consciousness) itself will give you the right answer.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Muppalla wrote: You are again taking the same leaders' utterings and you are extrapolating to make Modi is still not there. Let us list who are really uttering these:
No I am, saying that if Modi has to be made the PM candidate a large consensus has to emerge, that is emerging slowly. I am not extrapolating to say Modi is not there, I start with the fact that Modi is not there and extrapolating the remarks to see if he is getting there, it seems he is.
Without NaMo BJP will not even get to three digits. In such a situation the UPA-1 style or Gujral/Gowda style INC supported government is assured. There are convincing surveys.
)
Sorry, BJP will get 124-150 without Modi, it already has and can only better its record. The question is whether Modi can add 40-50 seats? There are no clear answers.

Just because I support Modi, does not mean I will start making Rajnikant style claims for him.
:P
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

muraliravi wrote: sir spare us from ur modi emerging slowly, take a poll among bjp voters/all Indians/bjp cadre, in any poll modi will beat advani 10:1.
:rotfl:

You have so much takleef with others understanding of reality, why dont you get the poll done.

enuf is enuf, the minute bjp announces advani as pm nominee, bjp will go to 2 digits. Can you please tell me how many seats bjp will get in each state with advani as pm nominee.
Something between 2004-2009 figures are the rock bottom for BJP in its current situation. This is even is the had Sir headless nick as the PM candidate.
I ask for the nth time, show me one example in Indian politics ( state/national) where a party was out of power for 5 yrs, went into election with candidate A as nominee, lost badly and then goes into election after another 5 years, projects the same nominee again and wins the election.
There are examples, below is a short list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkash_Singh_Badal

Also people looking to do the same.

TDP -- Chandababu Naidu
Bihar -- lalu prasad yadav.
etc....

In any case, the above is contrived example, there have few cases where a party and a leader have been around for 10 years while being away from power, either the party or the leader, or both tend to pass away.

So I see no merit in trying to put that up as example, there are very very few comparison points with the given situation anyway.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Sanku wrote:
muraliravi wrote: sir spare us from ur modi emerging slowly, take a poll among bjp voters/all Indians/bjp cadre, in any poll modi will beat advani 10:1.
You have so much takleef with others understanding of reality, why dont you get the poll done.
Hmm, this is probably the nub of the issue.

So Sanku, what is your sense of the percentage of supporters for Advani? You can give separate estimates on percentage for BJP voters, BJP cadre and all Indians to make it more explicit.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Muppalla wrote:Does anyone has info of time of NaMo meetings in Mangalore and Belgaum?


Link for Mangalore speech.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

In respect of Sardar Patel - We are talking about tall leaders of fridom fight who never really cared for positions. For him the PM chair may not even be improtant. He certainly do not know that he is gong to die soon after formation of republic. Imagine people like Patel in INC at the time of Indo China War - It would have been bye bye ChaCha Nehru immediately after independence. I think all Congress leaders and freedom fighters failed to identify what Nehru really is. A closet communist bas****d with dictotorial bent with lettle knowledge or capability in administration and enormous ego. That was the undoing of the India and almost 40 years of economic period lost and a family rule and democracy nearly destroyed.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Arjun wrote: So Sanku, what is your sense of the percentage of supporters for Advani? You can give separate estimates on percentage for BJP voters, BJP cadre and all Indians to make it more explicit.
Some disagreements first, I do not think that Advani (or Sushma, or Modi, or Sonia, or whatever) makes a difference as far as general electorate is concerned.

My claims are
1) 80-90% electorate vote for local candidate/party -- not a PM nominee.

2) Of BJP cadre (including senior commanders), they will go with who so ever gets projected, I think they should be okay with either Advani or Modi as far as I know.

I dont have the numbers for how many would prefer Advani over Modi or vice versa, but I can confidently say that 80% would be okay with Advani, for Modi, I do not know, it is ONLY because a as far as I can see, Modi has not yet interacted at national level with a large number of cadre, its mostly image etc that people have, in time he needs to build direct contacts.

3) The key is RSS, its mind is not known, they along with the senior leadership of BJP, including people like MM Joshi etc (it is fine and dandy for people in the forum to behave like, "I am in my 20s and I think everyone over 35 is oh so not cool", but the parivar keeps its old warhorses around for a long time and gives a lot of weightage to their thoughts, thats how it is) -- In my opinion RSS wants Modi to be projected, but cautiously and with cross platform support.

Their timelines are different, they may even be planning for 2017 for Modi, while looking at some one else now -- it is not clear what they think, and that is the most important missing piece.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Shankuji, as a person long worked in elections for BJP I am not sure people will "work" because of the local candidated and the party workers work for the party. It is not so clear. We have to remember that unlike INC and others BJP normally do not pay of workers. unless workers are motivated they will not work. Voters also will simply stay at home when they are presented a 86 year old man who lost once and now do not imspire any confidence of winning. The confidence of winning is improtant in any war. No one will be motivated to fight a lost battle. People may fight and die but the lose without confidence. It is the wining confidence that makes common workers and voters of BJP to work more and win. We have to remember % of vote difforence is going to be small in many place like MP and such cases ever bit of support is needed. Take for example AP or Tamilnadu where people are suffering due to serious power cuts, they may vote for BJP (or Amma in TN as she is known supporter of NaMo) in larger number. I live in TN and there is no power for the entire day and most of the night in TN and tempurature is 40 degrees. Can you imagine what will be the fate of a person living in the top floor of the house? There are many who will vote for NaMo just due to the horrible power cuts they face in there respectve states. Can Advani boost any such record.

One of the most problematic issue for Advani is abandenment of Ramjanmabhumi issue after coming into power. He almost did nothing to construct the temple. Had BJP lost the power for temple also it and Advani could have kept their credibility. With sacrifice of the "core" issues to be in power in NDA they betraied their own "core" supporters.

No why people like myself vote for BJP which does not fight for common civil code, removal of article 370, constrction of Ramajanmabhumi temple after coming into power. Had Advani not take minister post and remained committed to temple issue, he would have saved BJP in UP and could have been a PM long back with Ram Temple under construction now. But he forgot Temple after becoming Home Minister. Khadahar episod costed serious loss of face to BJP and he was part of it. Had he opposed it and resigned he would have be PM the next day or BJP would have kept its prohindu name even now. LohPurush had is chances and blow them. After Jinna praise no one will trust him to be prohindu.

As for as RSS goes - We need to remember NaMo is a pracharak and RSS for the first time gets a chance to put their full time pracharak as PM - Do you think they will forgo that chance.
Last edited by Yagnasri on 02 May 2013 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Narayana Rao wrote:Shankuji, as a person long worked in elections for BJP I am not sure people will "work" because of the local candidated and the party workers work for the party.
Narayan Rao ji; I do not dismiss the impact of a charismatic leader in firing up the cadre, however that is a different issue from broad based acceptability or preference that I was talking of.

Please note that there is also the fact all the local leaders need to buy in, that wont happen only on the basis of long distance perception, for that they will need to have first hand interaction with NaMo.

There are many pieces in the chain, so to say.
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